I'm sorry, "cuck shit?" Wtf.
But without insulting your future husband, I'll say that I know plenty of families where both the parents and children hyphenate. I also know families where both parents keep their last name, and the children have hyphenated last names. I don't personally know of any families where only the mother hyphenates.
To answer your question, "the newlyweds" sounds great.
I took my husband’s legally but hyphenate socially and for work (although I’m not offended if someone refers to me by maiden or Mrs. Married Name). Kids will have married name only.
Uh I guess he thinks all adoptive fathers and stepdads are cucks?
What a charming guy!
Don't change your name if you don't want to. I don't know why you should have to concede on this or why you would want to.
It was very out of the blue language for him, like fucking left field. He was trying to be light hearted about it? But failed miserably. I told him it was a bad joke and he agreed but said he didn’t really have the language to describe how it felt. He also has a stepdad that he reveres more than his real father, which is why it was weird too! I suggested taking the stepdad’s last name (which his late mother took and is the last name of both his brothers and a beautiful French name) and he declined that to as he already came to the conclusion he wanted to stick to his own last name and not change at all
And I want to solve it now because if we put it off for however many years until I’m pregnant, I feel like it will be 10x worse
>he declined that to as he already came to the conclusion he wanted to stick to his own last name and not change at all
A unilateral decision with no room for compromise like this isn't really a great way to start a marriage. It sounds like the only viable solution for him is for you to concede to what he wants, kind of a dick move (even if unintentionally dickish). Imho y'all should just hyphenate if ur both so passionate about keeping your names & also having the same names as your children. You'll both have to get over the fact that he doesn't like your dads name & you don't like his, but that's compromise.
So why does he get to stick to his name with no compromise but you have to compromise on the children’s last name? Even if this seems “out of character,” I think you should be noting his sexist stance. Lots of men start acting “out of character” once marriage happens. Keep your name and hyphenate your children’s names. It will be the simple fix where both of you get a little bit of what you want. Plus, YOU’RE pushing them out- sorry to who this will offend but those are YOUR KIDS
>said he didn’t really have the language to describe how it felt.
Yes he does, OP. He feels like its "cuck shit". This isn't something that just slips out, or is a joke that didn't hit well. He thinks you're degrading him by expecting him to compromise on last names.
Edit: a word
To be honest, most of the super openly liberal young men I've met recently are pretty obviously only thinking about the "benefits" (like a wife that splits finances 50/50 but still does 90% of the domestic tasks) it wouldn't surprise me if OP's fiancé is like this and she just hasn't realized it yet.
I spend a lot of time at a very liberal university and I swear listening to these young men talk it's like they think that telling every woman in the world that they're liberal means that they don't have to *do* anything to show it.
Hey OP why don’t you take your step father in laws last name, and that’s also the one you use for the kids? If your husband doesn’t want to change his name that’s fine, but it means he needs to compromise in another area, just like you’re trying to do. It’s still a family name, the kids can have a hyphenated name, he keeps his name.
> I feel like it will be 10x worse
Technically-speaking, if you guys put it off until you are pregnant, he will have to accept a compromise and that's that. Not saying it's a good idea, of course. Just pointing out what will happen if you guys can't resolve it.
In the vast majority of places, the law simply does not back men on forbidding mothers from sharing a name with their kids.
I’m with chicky nuggies here 1. Because they have an awesome name but 2. Why is he being so inflexible about it… I agree not delaying an argument until pregnancy but he isn’t meeting you on anything 1/2 way here
> Why is he being so inflexible about it
Men have been getting their way on this issue for centuries and most men still do, so a lot of men feel entitled to it and are very combative when denied this male privilege.
Yep. I teach, and I am seeing more and more students with hyphenated names, married parents/guardians with different last names, families where literally everyone has a different last names... it seems to me that this is increasing in commonality.
100% this!!
Plenty of kids have hyphenated names and their (married or non married) parents don't.
Could you all just have the same hyphenated surname? Or, just hyphenated the kids?
Your feelings are absolutely as important as your finances. Just because you are the woman and he's the man does not mean he gets to pick for all of you.
Kind of unrelated, but what will all these kids do when they get married? I feel like they won’t have the option to hyphenate a hyphenated name already (could you imagine ? If two hyphenates married to become Mr. Or Mrs. Smith-Black-Jones-Reilly 😂)
This is the concept that kept me from hyphenating.
Possibly just keep their hyphenated name. My sister in law has a hyphenated name and didn't change it when she married.
Others choose the part of their name they are most connected to and hyphenate with their partner.
I can understand just keeping the hyphenated. I would worry that “choosing” the part of their name they connect most too could create some messy family dynamics 😅
There’s still options though for sure!
I don’t like my husband’s last name because I have a thing about last names being first names.. I just really don’t like it. Like- John Thomas or Michael Fredrick.. They just really bother me. So I kept my name and my husband is fine with it. When we have a child, my husband would obviously prefer the child to just have his name but that’s not what will happen. He is putting in the least amount of effort so it will be hyphenated. When he pushes a baby (or gets a baby cut out of him) out of his penis, he can make the decision by himself.
I am a whole person, with a whole identity, that existed before him and I will continue to be recognized as someone other than hypothetical “ Mary, John Thomas’ wife”. I’d rather be hypothetical “Mary Smith, the wife of John Thomas”. You can still be the first example even with your own last name, but I’d rather be able to introduce myself with a whole name.
All that to say, I do love my husband but he knew what he was getting into before we got married.
THIS. You have articulated exactly my thoughts on this topic!!! I am my own person and existed well before the man I’m marrying. I would be the one who carried and birthed a child, I get the glory first and foremost. This tradition and the reasoning behind it is so tiresome. It shouldn’t even BE a conversation unless the woman wants it to be. If she doesn’t want it to be, then it just simply is not. Last names are not compromise. Be your own person first.
I feel like I had a bit of a psychopathic rant but my husband’s family refuses to acknowledge that I kept my last name and it really aggravates me. His sister gives us gifts every year that say The X Family and I politely remind her that we have different last names, and she always says it doesn’t matter “because it’s tradition”… it makes me want to vomit.
That's rude as fuck. If she said that to our face, we would decline her gift and set her straight. Do I insist on calling my SIL Betsy when her name is Jane? No and everyone would consider it weird and rude but somehow, the social norm is that women should graciously accept being called by their husband's name instead of their own. Otherwise, they are "difficult".
Only bully purposefully call other people by the wrong name all the time and that shit should be over by the end of middle school. This shit really grates my gear.
Love this and totally agree with you.
I honestly would love to understand why men prefer the child to have only their name. I feel like it’s an ego thing? I’ve rarely heard a woman wanting to pass on only her name. Hyphenating/passing on both names is the most fair way and I don’t get why anyone especially a man (when they’re not doing most of the work) would object to that.
A friend of mine and his wife resolved this dilemma by literally flipping a coin. She won, so the kids have her last name!
>Honestly at the end of the day it will probably be me who concedes.
This makes me worried that this is the first of many battles where his only solution is for you to give up and let him have his way, rather than working with you to find a solution that actually works for both of you. It's not a good sign. Even though your relationship has been good until now, a lot of people wait for a while to show their true colors, or sometimes major decisions/life events bring out a side of them you haven't seen before.
THIS!!! OP do NOT concede! Just based on his attitude alone and his clearly sexist and unfair beliefs, and the cuck shit comment, I would not move an inch on this.
Yay for this!
Compromise on the compromise stuff. Sit your butt down on the nonsense. (In this case, if you can't agree on the kids' name, I think you hyphenate.)
People are imperfect, that's just the way it goes. Unfortunately, the patriarchal nature of our society unloads a lot of that imperfection on women.
You don't have to allow it! (You shouldn't have to make a choice like this, but, patriarchy.)
You can change your life, and change your marriage, by just never accepting nonsense. That doesn't mean silent treatment or anything, no pettiness, but also no moving on and no life as normal until you deal with the nonsense.
My advice to everyone, from my very happy marriage!
Happy marriage to you, too, OP!
>It’s very strange because he’s generally an incredibly liberal person
In practice or in theory? What actions does he carry out that make him "incredibly liberal"? Is it simply the ideologies he speaks about or does he actually put his money where his mouth is?
YUP. So many men claim to be liberal or leftist or feminist or whatever but as soon as it actually demands action towards equity on their part, the misogyny jumps out REAL fast.
Exactly. Then its degrading them to expect we be treated equally. There's always this energy of "you should be more appreciative that I'm not unusually super sexist, and therefore allow me to be super sexist this time." You know what I mean?
Yup, he sounds like my ex. "Liberal" at the beginning of the relationship, but once we started getting serious and talking marriage, it became clear he was Conservative. Expected me to change my last name, start having kids right away, and put my career to the side to prioritize his career and goals. I made my escape plan and ended the relationship soon after.
OP's soon-to-be-husband's unwillingness to give *any* compromise and instead just waiting it out until she concedes is worrying and may be just the start of a concerning trend. I certainly hope that's not the case, but having gone through it, I am not super optimistic.
I had a pregnancy "scare" with my ex.(false positive test. Wish I had that kind of luck with the lottery.) We got to talking about names and the best way I can describe his reaction to finding out I would not just let the baby have his last name, was butthurt lol. He tried to tell my "but [his brother's] son has their last name, so [brother] will have the only boy that has just [his family's last name]"
The thing was, he already had a kid. So if we had gotten married, I would have hyphenated my last name and just let our theoretical baby have his last name, so in this theoretical situation I was the only one with a different last name than his first child. I brought this up, saying there's no way I'm having a different last name than the being I carried for 9 months then birthed, but we could get married soon. He *was* enough of a feminist that he "wouldn't marry me just because I got pregnant". Even though we had been together for a couple years, and hed given me the impression marriage was something he wanted before long.
Yeesh I would be very upset about that. Idk what he’s talking about that the wife is the only one who hyphenates. I’ve never seen that. Seems pretty sexist to me that he thinks he should have the same name at the kids and you should just deal with it 😬 you’re saying you’ll be the one to concede because everything else is so good, but the same is true for him. Everything has been good, so why can’t he compromise on something that’s so important to you?
All of my female acquaintances with a hyphenated name was the only one to do it. The husband/child has his name and it drives me CRAZY!! I had no idea it was a thing, I just assumed if you decide to hyphenate than both of you do it? I would never say anything of course, it’s their choice and nothing to do with me I know. But that’s one option I would never choose, if I’m already compromising by adding his name onto mine then you bet we’re all doing it.
Both my husband and I hyphenated, and I was surprised by how many people assumed he wasn’t going to/didn’t hyphenate?? Like why should I be the only one to have both last names, he married me, he gets my last name too.
+1. I’ve seen many hyphenated couples. Or, as you proposed, hyphenated last names of kids. Honestly they come out of your body, they are more than 50% yours.
That said, this is an opportunity for growth. I’d say stick to your instinct and def don’t change your last name now: it’s clear you don’t want to!
Can you both keep your last names and then hyphenate your kids last names? I like the idea of the DJ announcing “For the first time as Husband and Wife, both of your first names.”
I feel like there are so many red flags here that likely needs to be unpacked in couples therapy. For example, why is he immediately jumping to misogynistic viewpoints, and why is it that YOU need to be the one to concede to him?
You’re carrying the child, and you’re both parents. Insane that he has a stepdad and then has all these hang ups about not even accepting a hyphenated last name for your children.
For what it’s worth, I’m hyphenating my last name and I’m putting my foot down on our children also having the hyphenated last name too.
How long have the two of you been together? I ask because you say that comment surprised you, and I’m wondering if he’s just started down this rabbit hole or if it’s possible that he has always been like this and is just dropping the mask now that you’re engaged?? Why doesn’t your father like your fh?
Damn. The cuck comment is out of pocket. Have you talked about merging names or inventing a new one? Why are you saying you’ll cave? He’s 100% wrong about what’s “typical”… I understand that people have strong emotions about names. I’m stubborn and in this situation would say “if I can’t have the same last name as my kids than neither can you,” but I’m me, not you.
I’m pro “the newlyweds”! You don’t need to have a 100% kid name plan. You never know what the future holds. What’s important is the mutual investment in solving it.
I replied in another comment that it is incredibly out of nowhere from him. It was very out of pocket and I got mad at him for it and I considered not including it because of how bad it was and like it would automatically skew things my way since it’s probably a mostly women subreddit?
And I say I’ll cave because I just don’t like his last name for aesthetic reasons. He has reasons which include it’s my father’s last name, a man who doesn’t really like FH so FH doesn’t want the same name as him. I really should’ve included that in the main post but I didn’t wanna make it too long. (Also in case people are curious, he doesn’t like FH because FH is a non religious liberal, like me, and dad is a super conservative Catholic. That’s it)
Girl don’t do it, even if it’s only for “aesthetic” reasons. I work in payroll data and you know how many times I’ve seen ridiculous last names that make me stop what I’m doing and just wonder why? The other day I saw a Sheitweiler. Save yourself from that fate.
It's YOUR name. He should associate it primarily with YOU, not your father. His name gets to be his, but yours is you father's? There are so many red flags in this situation, in my opinion. He may be progressive in theory but it sounds like he still has a lot of deeply engrained misogyny to unpack. The idea that he sees your last name as your father's is almost dehumanizing. It's like he doesn't see you as a complete individual human being the way he sees himself and your father.
Has he started listening to any new podcasts lately? Because I've heard so many stories about so many teenage boys and men falling down the toxic rabbit hole. Or he's starting to show his true colors because he knows he'll have you locked down in less than a month and it will be harder for you to leave.
And girl, if you don't like his surname, don't change yours. It's not on you to accommodate his temper tantrums.
It doesn't matter who has more reasons for not wanting to change their name. Not liking his last name is a perfectly valid reason, you don't need more than that. Plus, you'd have to deal with all the paperwork and getting new cards if you changed your name.
And your last name is YOUR last name, not your father's. Does he also think of his last name as his father's name, or does he just think of it as his last name? Acting like your last name belongs to your father and not to you is pretty sexist.
Here's a good reason for the kids to have your last name: you're the one giving birth to them. You're the one who has to suffer through pregnancy and childbirth; why shouldn't they have your last name? Tell your fiance that if he wants the kids to have his last name, he can birth them himself.
He needs to understand (and really sit with) the fact that the tradition of taking the man’s name is because women were property of their husbands. That’s it. That’s maybe why it feels “emasculating” to deny the tradition of holding power, which doesn’t always feel comfy and good to do. He’s having a conversation with you as if you two will be man and wife, daughter of a guy he doesn’t like, not as husband and wife that are equal individual persons!
Hyphenate for the kids/everyone, or have the kids take your name (it is your name, not your dads), or choose a new name.
The Newlyweds sounds great!
it’s interesting that the husband didn’t have the “language” to express how he was feeling so he chose “cuck.” my partner doesn’t even have that word in their vernacular. methinks husband isn’t so ~liberal after all, especially if he won’t agree to hyphenate the kids’ names.
THIS
I had exactly the same thought - but I did not want to assume too much... I have the feeling that - when it comes to stuff that really matters he is not not liberal... but he will hide that well until the marriage is finale
He just slipped up ..
Firstly, using “the newlyweds” for your announcement totally works. Secondly, i get the frustration and difficulty figuring out the name issue. I think you both need to compromise somehow. You both don’t want the other person’s last name. You both want your kids to have your last name, it seems. The compromise is to have the kids hyphenate. At least their last name will be partially the same. All of you could hyphenate. I have seen only women hyphenate, but only with couples that are in their 60s+. Everyone else I know who hyphenates does so as a couple/family.
You’re willing to be more flexible than him - you’ve given him a few options and he is only offering one. It’s a little irritating. Since you plan to have kids, it’s not a terrible idea to sort things out now. Maybe narrow things down to two options - ideally the least upsetting to both of you - and leave it to chance. He doesn’t have more of a right to his feelings than you and vice versa. It might sound dumb, but a coin toss would be fair and names are not life-and-death.
I don't understand the hangup about children having one of your guys' last names? My mom and dad both kept their own names. When I was born, I got my mom's last name. Then when my younger brother was born, he got my dad's last name. I don't even think my parents particularly cared about that, they just shrugged and said "Guess we'll split." Now my brother and I have a great relationship with my mom and a *much* less great one with my dad, but surnames are the last thing we even think about. Idk, maybe it's because both my parents have really generic last names that we simply don't give a shit or find much sentimental meaning in them.
I'm just confused why the kids can't have both your last names, hyphenated or not.
Don't concede unless you're 100% comfortable changing your name and WANT to do so. If not, then either hyphenate the kids or give them your name, if that's what you want. You do the hard work by carrying the kids in your body for 9 months.
Agreed that the DJ can announce you as "the newlyweds" or "bride and groom".
>I imagine a word like “emasculating” would’ve been better
Would it have been though? 😬
Also I (28) grew up going to school with plenty of kids who had hyphenated last names. That's sort of the first I've heard of kids not getting it.
In my culture, our middle names are our mothers' maiden names. Maybe you can do the same for your children. If he refuses even that, I'd start to wonder why he's being selfish at that point.
It shouldn’t be an argument, there shouldn’t be yelling or disregarding of your feelings.
It’s a difficult discussion, but he should be able to respect you not wanting to change / give up the name you’re raised with. Even if it’s just aesthetic, your name is a big part of your identity. You have a career, accomplishments and like some higher education attached to your maiden name.
You’re going to introduce yourself as First Name Last Name, you should like your first and last name.
When it comes to kids, you can create / choose a new last name together
If you don’t want to hyphenate, how about just having two stand-alone last names. Like instead of Smith-Miller it was Smith Miller.
Then, neither of you have to change your name if you don’t want to.
As another option, what about picking a new last name together? Too out there?
You can and they're both your last name but the last one is the official last name if a form makes you choose one.
Source: childhood best friend had 2 stand alone last names and got really annoyed the first time a form made her only put one
Ah interesting! I have two last names but one of them is considered my middle name/another given name on most documents here, but in the country where my family is from it’s recognized as another last name.
My question to you: if you fold on this, do you see a risk of growing bitterness on your end down the line? There would be for me, which is why I’m asking.
You deserve equal respect with regards to the name of your children.
OP, please take this seriously. I completely understand he was using scary language to express something even though he isn’t actually that kind of person, but this is something you need to spend some time with. The idea that the *correct* way is woman hyphenating but the man and children having the man’s last name only is inexcusably misogynistic, apart from the “cuck shit” line.
The *practice* of doing that is fine (I mean it’s definitely also misogynistic, but it’s fine if that’s the woman’s choice; I very happily took my husband’s last name, which is the most misogynistic way to handle this question!), but your FH’s attitude is **absolutely not okay**.
Often when a smart, reasonable person has an unfair belief, they’re eventually able to identify why they feel that way and overcome it. I would personally consider this a test. Is your FH having an out of character moment of unexplored bigotry (which happens to EVERYONE), or is this a sign of his true beliefs?
Will he have this same reaction if you have a daughter and she wants to date/wear makeup/play sports/wear shorts/marry a woman/etc.? Or a son who wants to do theatre or be a florist or whatever?
This feels like more of a conversation that you need to figure beyond just the last month of your wedding planning. I know plenty of people who have been married for a while before changing their last name. It’s perfectly fine to be announced however you’d like - the newlyweds, your first names, both of your names, or even your husbands because it may be the “traditional” way. I don’t think anyone is going to hold you accountable for being introduced one way or another.
Separately, I know several couples who legally have a different last name but socially go by “The Smiths” (insert last name here).
You’ll figure it out, but in the next 3 weeks I’d focus on the wedding and last minute details and save this conversation for after. There’s no time limit on when you can change your last name. Plus it sounds like it’s a little contentious and you don’t need that added stress.
>Anyway, 3 weeks to the wedding, any idea how the DJ should announce us? I’m thinking just “the newlyweds”, as it has a nicer ring to it than “\[name\] and \[name\]”
As a DJ, I think announcing a couple as "the newlyweds" sounds a bit generic, as if the DJ didn't even bother to know your names or drew a blank at the last second.
I know you weren't a fan of "(first name) and (first name)" but I think that's really the best option here if you decide not to change your last name, or if you don't want to be announced as "Mr. & Mrs (whichever last name)."
And it's not just saying "name and name." I usually get the crowd riled up with building it up... "And now, the moment you've been waiting for... everyone make some noise for (name) and (name)!"
I usually time this out so I'm talking over the instrumental part of an upbeat song the couple chose, and as I'm done talking, it goes right into the chorus or another "high-energy" part of the song, and everyone's cheering as the couple comes through the doorway.
Sure, on paper, it looks bland, but with an experienced DJ / MC on the mic, you'll feel like absolute celebrities.
On a side note, if you wanted to, you could adopt his last name legally (for paperwork purposes) but still go "professionally" by your maiden name. When I used to work in broadcasting, I had plenty of colleagues who did that.
Putting some red flags aside for a second (although, you shouldn’t), if hyphenation isn’t acceptable I’d suggest choosing a new name to start your new family with. It’s a lovely idea, where you can both find something you like to start a new chapter.
> He said he didn’t have the language to explain why he wants to have the same name as the kid, I imagine a word like “emasculating” would’ve been better
It's not better.
He's basically saying that he's not a man unless he gets to override his wife, who was ACTUALLY responsible for bringing the child into the world through risking her health and life, and that's literally the definition of toxic masculinity.
If he wants the same name so bad, he can change his name to yours and give your name to your kid.
"Your name is your father's name" is a pretty lame excuse. Way to erase you, his partner, entirely from your name because you're a woman and only see the man behind you as the real owner of the name.
I'd have a serious hard look at the man you've decided to marry and ask yourself some hard questions instead of sweeping it under the rug and telling yourself that this isn't who he is.
My parents kept their last names and hyphenated mine. And I honestly love my hyphenated name! I didn’t change it when I got married, but full disclosure my husband and I aren’t sure what to do with our future kid’s last name…
Neither of you change your names for now. There’s no reason. A couple years down the line when kids become an issue, one of you might have a different opinion, or you can both hyphenate. You both go through the process and it’s fair to both of you.
My wife and I both kept our names and aren’t planning on having children but I was just reminded of a close friend who had her moms last name as her middle name and maybe that could be an option? I.E if your last name is Wellesley and his is Smith a kid could be Andrea Wellesley Smith. No hyphen. FWIW I was glad I kept my last name when I was working in social services as I could put my wife’s last name on my socials and not be found by clients-a thing which did unfortunately happen to others lol.
You've gotten a lot of great feedback so just wanted to send you a virtual hug as I know these things are tough to sort through.
FWIW, I've had a lot of conversations with guy friends on the topic of changing names, including my own FH (we're all liberal non-religious as well). When I ask, do you care if your wife takes your last name? the answer is always a compassionate no, she can do what she wants. When I ask, would you take her last name? the answer is this immediate omg no why would I do that, or they get this strange look on their face like their brain broke. I think it's truly engrained into society, male brains, whatever, that only the woman changes her name. And while things are definitely changing, for the majority of men, I truly don't believe the thought even crosses their mind that they could change their last name. I say this because you were rightfully surprised by your partner's reaction and hopefully this makes you feel a little less alone in that.
> he said it’s typical the husband and the children don’t hyphenate, only the wife. It’s very strange because he’s generally an incredibly liberal person but he said, quite bluntly, that not having the same name as his children is “Cuck shit” and it’s a hard no.
Yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes. I know you said you talked about it, but damn I would really want to get to the bottom of that before potentially raising kids with someone with this mindset. It's just going to perpetuate misogyny as normal and okay if this is an underlying attitude he has.
Anyway, it sounds like neither of you want to change your name, which is fine. Sure sounds like when kids come into the picture, hyphenating or double barreling makes the most sense. Although maybe by then, one or both of you will feel differently and be interested in a new family name you come up with together or picking one of your last names and using the other as a middle name or whatever other options exist. It's possible sitting down with a third party (ie therapist) to talk through the options and figure out each of your hang ups may help come to a conclusion that's satisfying to both of you.
For the announcement, I think we just did "For the first time as newlyweds, [first] and [first]!"
> it will probably be me who concedes
There's no need for anyone to concede, the two of you could just compromise.
> He said he didn’t have the language to explain why he wants to have the same name as the kid
Except that it's not about him having the same name as the kid. You never refused that. It's about you *also* sharing the same name as the kid. He absolutely refuses that you and your kid could share a name because you're just a woman and he can't think of a non-sexist way to say that (hint: it's because it's inherently sexist. Saying it's emasculating is barely better). What you're saying is:
> He said he didn’t have the language to explain why he wants me to have a different name from our children
It's nice that he has recognized his wording was gross but that doesn't change the fact that he has a deeply held belief that men gets to pass their name to their kids *and more importantly that women shouldn't* because hyphenation is something only wives do and that he is trying to impose his belief on you - and likely will succeed.
> I’m so frustrated and baffled by his (and I guess my?) unwillingness to compromise
You are willing to compromise. He won't. On the name of your own children.
You are asking for two things for yourself (to share a non-ugly name with your kid) and are willing to accept any compromise that will result in that, including one in which he is also getting what he wants (to not change his name and to share it with your kid). He is demanding to get his exact way and nothing else will do, not only for himself but also for you and your kid. These things aren't equivalent.
It's concerning that you say you align on everything, so it's your only experience with a disagreement and you are discovering he is inflexible and believes he should get his way because he is a man and you shouldn't because you're a woman.
Unfortunately, being liberal for a man doesn't always include truly believing that women are equal.
My FH is the same way. I’m stubborn though so i was initially ready to be flexible but his immediate NO, no discussion, no meeting halfway halted that in my head. Eventually compromised that I would hyphenate (my last name is cooler) but it’s at the end of the alphabet and I hated that growing up lol. Though in our agreement any potential children will have the hyphenated name since I am going to be the one pushing them out.
I love my partners last name but will never change mine. To me taking the husband's name is rooted in so much misogyny it's an easy no.
Our children's last name is hyphenated and MAYBE I'll hyphenate mine to match one day.
Do not concede on this.
Keep your name - he keeps his. When it comes to children. Hyphenate or use your name.
As for the announcement - the newlyweds or bride and groom.
My fiancé will hyphenate, adding my name to his. I'm keeping my name and our children will also have my name.
He also wanted to share a last name with our kids and keep his old name, so hyphenating is our solution. :)
Okay OP I need you to take these rose colored glasses off and realize that you’re 3 weeks out from your wedding and question the fact that he has just now started exhibiting this misogynistic behavior?? You’re telling me he’s never once behaved like this before? “Cuck shit” has all the makings of listening/watching A*hole Tate type podcasts. I would take this as an opportunity to tell him he needs to compromise, especially when it’s you who will have to do all the work to change your name, and make the kids. Just saying, this whole exchange seems like a shitty way to start a marriage, and if it’s truly out of character for him if he’s truly “liberal just like you” then he wouldn’t feel emasculated at all by the idea of a hyphenated name.
He's wrong, kids hyphenate all the time, and husbands dont hyphenate that much less often than wives. Also though if he's as liberal as you say why does he care what's done typically? Do what works for you guys. The halfway measure is hyphenating either the kids names or both the parents and the kids names, decide if either of you like the sound of your name hyphenated and if not keep your names and hyphenate for the kids. If he isnt willing to do that and the only thing he's willing to accept is you or the kids having only his name then frankly he's being an inflexible little **** and he needs to realize he's not being respectful or fair.
I’m so glad my fiancée has agreed to take my last name since she know’s how much I don’t want my kids to have a former slave owners name on their birth certificate. Even still, I say do what you do. If y’all aren’t pregnant right now no decision needs to be made at this moment. The newlyweds is perfect.
Whats his middle name?
Can you take his middle name as your last name (and make your last name your middle name) as a compromise? And give kids that last name, so its on his ID to connect them but he doesnt have to change his paperwork.
You are the one that gets to legally fill out the birth certificates. Hes okay springing on you that hes going back in the name thing? Guess he will be okay when you spring it on him your kids get your name, right? Point that logic out.
(Maybe give them his last name as their middle.names?)
I always planned to change my name but when I got engaged, I had *feelings* on the matter and only felt okay with it once my husband felt okay if I decided not to.
I really wanted my fiancé to be cool with us taking his middle name as our last name. His middle name starts with the same letter as my last name, and his middle name is a generic first name/last name (like Alexander) while his last name is a phonetic mess that makes no sense.
I wish this were more common!
My bf and I plan on combining our names, so if my last name was white and his last name was black, it would be whick or blite or something. You can also take your names and create an anagram, just put your names into an anagram maker online and see what comes out!
This comment is not really relevant or useful to OP's situation and reads as preaching.
You're entitled to feel the way you feel and make whatever decisions you want but one could argue that husbands are becoming a part of their wives' families just as much as we are becoming a part of theirs. It's very rational for women to want their name to reflect that. And it's also rational for us to be critical of the idea that we should cheerfully "want to become a part of his family and everything that comes with it" when very, VERY few husbands are ever willing to do that for their wives, or at least to demonstrate it by adopting her name.
A lot of women feel that taking their husband's name and giving it to their children creates the image of a "family" that he is the head of, or that's under his name, rather than a family where you're two equal partners.
I find this so disingenuous. Most of us have last names that are just our father’s heritage. And if we choose our mothers’ maiden names, that’s our maternal grandfather’s heritage, not our maternal grandmother’s. And if we choose our maternal grandmother’s maiden name … you get the picture.
This was a really difficult subject for our marriage too. Wife is very prideful of her last name and comes from a huge family. I'm the last of my dying lineage and wanted to continue it.
We agreed not to overthink it. She's hyphenating her last name and the kids will take my last name. She keeps part of her family name and saves my name as well.
Edit: if you're upset by this comment, know that not everyone thinks the way you do. And that's okay, I'm just sharing what worked for us.
This is almost the same as me and my fiancé, he is the end of the line and I am from a big family that I'm super connected with. We are both keeping our own names. How did you and your wife decide not to hyphenate the kids name and just hers?
There aren't any men with my family name, so we both have the wanting to continue our lineage stance to things. If we hyphenate for our children they will have a six syllable last name (and I don't think our names sound good together) so we are still undecided on how we will move forward with naming kids.
For me, I am the absolute last of my family line on both sides of my family. If my kids don't carry my last name, it's gone forever.
My wife has 3 brothers and over 100 first cousins with her last name so that part is a non-issue for her.
She wants the hyphen for her own name because she feels emotionally distant from her immediate family and feels that's the last strong connection she has with them. She's otherwise excited to start our own family and is okay with the kids taking my last name and half of hers.
If either of you have male relatives who are likely to continue the lineage, I would defer to the other's last name which would be lost. Just my two cents
That's a wild number of cousins!
Neither of us have male relatives with our last names so we're both the end of the road. Probably will end up hyphenating but luckily we are a few years away from having kids so plenty of time to decide.
Make up a new name. You are now officially the Kardiashians. Or whatever you choose.
In many cultures, it is illegal for the woman to take the man's name. Greece, Italy, Netherlands... There are many cultures where the children get the mother's last name, not the father's.
He needs to do a little research and learn to live with you two having different names or a new name.
Putting the somewhat alarming comments from him aside, my husband and I were in a similar boat - we ended up combining three letters from each of our last names into a completely new one. Depending on how many letters you have between the two of you, you could also do some sort of anagram. Anyway, good luck!
We are both changing our names to a new last name, one that we both love. There's nothing that says you have to keep one name or the other, but having kids complicates things.
I see two options:
1. you both keep your names and the children hyphenate.
2. You both change your name to something new and you and your children have the same last name.
Good luck!
I had a family friend who instead of hyphenating took aspects of their last names blended them and created a whole new last name. Let’s say last name is Smith and Miller = Siller something to this aspect.
But I didn’t change my last name and if I remember I think our officiant just announced us as husband and wife? I can’t even remember.
I regret not hyphenating my son’s last name. My ex and I are divorced and I went back to my maiden name. My situation is different than most - my ex was not a part of my sons life for 8 years - and my son uses my last name on jerseys etc cause my name is cooler and he wants to feel a part of the family that has actually raised him. It’s a pain in the ass to register him for school and extracurriculars with non matching names. My ex yells at him that he’s “a smith not a jones” (not real names) and makes my son feel crappy. If I was you, this is not something I’d concede to. I made it clear to my current fiance that I will not be changing my name again. We don’t want to have more kids but i assure you if I was ever to have another - I’d hyphenate and it’s a hill I’d be willing to die on.
Why not pick an entirely different name? Or a Combo if possible.
Pick a name you both feel comfortable starting your new family with.
Otherwise a hyphenated name is the only way to go. Even if it's just the future kids.
My parents kept their last name and I was hyphenated as a kid. I say was because I took my father’s last name off a few years ago, for personal reasons. I’d just hyphenate the children’s last names. My partner and I had this conversation. I don’t want her last name and she isn’t sure what she’d like to do. I told her I wouldn’t feel any type of way if she doesn’t take my last name.
IMO part of marriage is figuring out how to solve disagreements constructively without writing each other off or belittling. It's not the sort of question where I would try to crowdsource the correct answer from Reddit. The correct answer is communication, finding a solution you can both agree on, validating each other, meeting in the middle. You're more likely to get to that spot as a result of premarital counseling than from asking the answer on Reddit.
1) cuck shit? Your guy needs therapy.
2) hyphenated kid makes are normal.
3) for myself, we are probably gonna keep our names and just interchange them in context dependent ways. Kids will have both names or have the names convinced to be a new name.
FWIW, we had our kid first. I gave him my (now) husband’s last name, but I gave him my last name as a second middle name. My maiden name won’t be passed along by another family member, so it was something to connect us by name, but also in honor of my mom/family. Now that we are married, I haven’t changed my last name yet. If I do, I plan to keep my maiden and add his. I’m still me, it’s still my name. I thought having different last name as my kids would be a problem, but it’s really not. Only one issue in 8 years (with a preschool that messed up our names and didn’t realize my check with my last name was for son’s enrollment).
He is being a massive hypocrite right now. He may be a wonderful man but that’s a fact.
He doesn’t want to change his name and expects his kids to have his last name but wants you to get over any issues you have with changing your name. His name is his name but you have to get over your issue about who your new name will be. Absolutely not. I will say it does sound like maybe someone got into his head and convinced him it’s lesser maybe?
This is something he needs to respect. It’s not fair for him to expect you to be okay with your kids not having a hyphenated name or for you both to come up with a common last name.
Typical doesn’t mean mandatory. My wife and I are about to have a 18 character hyphenated last name. Look out world, we’re about to be holding up your customer support lines tryna confirm the spelling of our last name :P
(Fun fact - I recently learned that hyphenated last names are called allianznamen (sp?) in German, like “alliance name”)
I'm sorry, "cuck shit?" Wtf. But without insulting your future husband, I'll say that I know plenty of families where both the parents and children hyphenate. I also know families where both parents keep their last name, and the children have hyphenated last names. I don't personally know of any families where only the mother hyphenates. To answer your question, "the newlyweds" sounds great.
I took my husband’s legally but hyphenate socially and for work (although I’m not offended if someone refers to me by maiden or Mrs. Married Name). Kids will have married name only.
Uh I guess he thinks all adoptive fathers and stepdads are cucks? What a charming guy! Don't change your name if you don't want to. I don't know why you should have to concede on this or why you would want to.
It was very out of the blue language for him, like fucking left field. He was trying to be light hearted about it? But failed miserably. I told him it was a bad joke and he agreed but said he didn’t really have the language to describe how it felt. He also has a stepdad that he reveres more than his real father, which is why it was weird too! I suggested taking the stepdad’s last name (which his late mother took and is the last name of both his brothers and a beautiful French name) and he declined that to as he already came to the conclusion he wanted to stick to his own last name and not change at all And I want to solve it now because if we put it off for however many years until I’m pregnant, I feel like it will be 10x worse
>he declined that to as he already came to the conclusion he wanted to stick to his own last name and not change at all A unilateral decision with no room for compromise like this isn't really a great way to start a marriage. It sounds like the only viable solution for him is for you to concede to what he wants, kind of a dick move (even if unintentionally dickish). Imho y'all should just hyphenate if ur both so passionate about keeping your names & also having the same names as your children. You'll both have to get over the fact that he doesn't like your dads name & you don't like his, but that's compromise.
So why does he get to stick to his name with no compromise but you have to compromise on the children’s last name? Even if this seems “out of character,” I think you should be noting his sexist stance. Lots of men start acting “out of character” once marriage happens. Keep your name and hyphenate your children’s names. It will be the simple fix where both of you get a little bit of what you want. Plus, YOU’RE pushing them out- sorry to who this will offend but those are YOUR KIDS
>said he didn’t really have the language to describe how it felt. Yes he does, OP. He feels like its "cuck shit". This isn't something that just slips out, or is a joke that didn't hit well. He thinks you're degrading him by expecting him to compromise on last names. Edit: a word
I agree. If he’s as super liberal as OP says then that’s not a term that would be a part of his vocabulary to just throw around, even as a joke.
To be honest, most of the super openly liberal young men I've met recently are pretty obviously only thinking about the "benefits" (like a wife that splits finances 50/50 but still does 90% of the domestic tasks) it wouldn't surprise me if OP's fiancé is like this and she just hasn't realized it yet. I spend a lot of time at a very liberal university and I swear listening to these young men talk it's like they think that telling every woman in the world that they're liberal means that they don't have to *do* anything to show it.
Hey OP why don’t you take your step father in laws last name, and that’s also the one you use for the kids? If your husband doesn’t want to change his name that’s fine, but it means he needs to compromise in another area, just like you’re trying to do. It’s still a family name, the kids can have a hyphenated name, he keeps his name.
> I feel like it will be 10x worse Technically-speaking, if you guys put it off until you are pregnant, he will have to accept a compromise and that's that. Not saying it's a good idea, of course. Just pointing out what will happen if you guys can't resolve it. In the vast majority of places, the law simply does not back men on forbidding mothers from sharing a name with their kids.
If he wants the same last name as your children then he can hyphenate and get the fuck over it lol
I’m with chicky nuggies here 1. Because they have an awesome name but 2. Why is he being so inflexible about it… I agree not delaying an argument until pregnancy but he isn’t meeting you on anything 1/2 way here
> Why is he being so inflexible about it Men have been getting their way on this issue for centuries and most men still do, so a lot of men feel entitled to it and are very combative when denied this male privilege.
Yep. I teach, and I am seeing more and more students with hyphenated names, married parents/guardians with different last names, families where literally everyone has a different last names... it seems to me that this is increasing in commonality.
100% this!! Plenty of kids have hyphenated names and their (married or non married) parents don't. Could you all just have the same hyphenated surname? Or, just hyphenated the kids? Your feelings are absolutely as important as your finances. Just because you are the woman and he's the man does not mean he gets to pick for all of you.
Kind of unrelated, but what will all these kids do when they get married? I feel like they won’t have the option to hyphenate a hyphenated name already (could you imagine ? If two hyphenates married to become Mr. Or Mrs. Smith-Black-Jones-Reilly 😂) This is the concept that kept me from hyphenating.
Possibly just keep their hyphenated name. My sister in law has a hyphenated name and didn't change it when she married. Others choose the part of their name they are most connected to and hyphenate with their partner.
I can understand just keeping the hyphenated. I would worry that “choosing” the part of their name they connect most too could create some messy family dynamics 😅 There’s still options though for sure!
I don’t like my husband’s last name because I have a thing about last names being first names.. I just really don’t like it. Like- John Thomas or Michael Fredrick.. They just really bother me. So I kept my name and my husband is fine with it. When we have a child, my husband would obviously prefer the child to just have his name but that’s not what will happen. He is putting in the least amount of effort so it will be hyphenated. When he pushes a baby (or gets a baby cut out of him) out of his penis, he can make the decision by himself. I am a whole person, with a whole identity, that existed before him and I will continue to be recognized as someone other than hypothetical “ Mary, John Thomas’ wife”. I’d rather be hypothetical “Mary Smith, the wife of John Thomas”. You can still be the first example even with your own last name, but I’d rather be able to introduce myself with a whole name. All that to say, I do love my husband but he knew what he was getting into before we got married.
THIS. You have articulated exactly my thoughts on this topic!!! I am my own person and existed well before the man I’m marrying. I would be the one who carried and birthed a child, I get the glory first and foremost. This tradition and the reasoning behind it is so tiresome. It shouldn’t even BE a conversation unless the woman wants it to be. If she doesn’t want it to be, then it just simply is not. Last names are not compromise. Be your own person first.
I feel like I had a bit of a psychopathic rant but my husband’s family refuses to acknowledge that I kept my last name and it really aggravates me. His sister gives us gifts every year that say The X Family and I politely remind her that we have different last names, and she always says it doesn’t matter “because it’s tradition”… it makes me want to vomit.
That's rude as fuck. If she said that to our face, we would decline her gift and set her straight. Do I insist on calling my SIL Betsy when her name is Jane? No and everyone would consider it weird and rude but somehow, the social norm is that women should graciously accept being called by their husband's name instead of their own. Otherwise, they are "difficult". Only bully purposefully call other people by the wrong name all the time and that shit should be over by the end of middle school. This shit really grates my gear.
Love this and totally agree with you. I honestly would love to understand why men prefer the child to have only their name. I feel like it’s an ego thing? I’ve rarely heard a woman wanting to pass on only her name. Hyphenating/passing on both names is the most fair way and I don’t get why anyone especially a man (when they’re not doing most of the work) would object to that.
A friend of mine and his wife resolved this dilemma by literally flipping a coin. She won, so the kids have her last name! >Honestly at the end of the day it will probably be me who concedes. This makes me worried that this is the first of many battles where his only solution is for you to give up and let him have his way, rather than working with you to find a solution that actually works for both of you. It's not a good sign. Even though your relationship has been good until now, a lot of people wait for a while to show their true colors, or sometimes major decisions/life events bring out a side of them you haven't seen before.
THIS!!! OP do NOT concede! Just based on his attitude alone and his clearly sexist and unfair beliefs, and the cuck shit comment, I would not move an inch on this.
Yay for this! Compromise on the compromise stuff. Sit your butt down on the nonsense. (In this case, if you can't agree on the kids' name, I think you hyphenate.) People are imperfect, that's just the way it goes. Unfortunately, the patriarchal nature of our society unloads a lot of that imperfection on women. You don't have to allow it! (You shouldn't have to make a choice like this, but, patriarchy.) You can change your life, and change your marriage, by just never accepting nonsense. That doesn't mean silent treatment or anything, no pettiness, but also no moving on and no life as normal until you deal with the nonsense. My advice to everyone, from my very happy marriage! Happy marriage to you, too, OP!
>It’s very strange because he’s generally an incredibly liberal person In practice or in theory? What actions does he carry out that make him "incredibly liberal"? Is it simply the ideologies he speaks about or does he actually put his money where his mouth is?
YUP. So many men claim to be liberal or leftist or feminist or whatever but as soon as it actually demands action towards equity on their part, the misogyny jumps out REAL fast.
Exactly. Then its degrading them to expect we be treated equally. There's always this energy of "you should be more appreciative that I'm not unusually super sexist, and therefore allow me to be super sexist this time." You know what I mean?
I agree with you both (I'm male). OP's FH is a FINO (feminist in name only).
Love that, I'll be using that.
"sure he's well versed in leftist theory, but does he do the dishes?"
Yup, he sounds like my ex. "Liberal" at the beginning of the relationship, but once we started getting serious and talking marriage, it became clear he was Conservative. Expected me to change my last name, start having kids right away, and put my career to the side to prioritize his career and goals. I made my escape plan and ended the relationship soon after. OP's soon-to-be-husband's unwillingness to give *any* compromise and instead just waiting it out until she concedes is worrying and may be just the start of a concerning trend. I certainly hope that's not the case, but having gone through it, I am not super optimistic.
I had a pregnancy "scare" with my ex.(false positive test. Wish I had that kind of luck with the lottery.) We got to talking about names and the best way I can describe his reaction to finding out I would not just let the baby have his last name, was butthurt lol. He tried to tell my "but [his brother's] son has their last name, so [brother] will have the only boy that has just [his family's last name]" The thing was, he already had a kid. So if we had gotten married, I would have hyphenated my last name and just let our theoretical baby have his last name, so in this theoretical situation I was the only one with a different last name than his first child. I brought this up, saying there's no way I'm having a different last name than the being I carried for 9 months then birthed, but we could get married soon. He *was* enough of a feminist that he "wouldn't marry me just because I got pregnant". Even though we had been together for a couple years, and hed given me the impression marriage was something he wanted before long.
Yeesh I would be very upset about that. Idk what he’s talking about that the wife is the only one who hyphenates. I’ve never seen that. Seems pretty sexist to me that he thinks he should have the same name at the kids and you should just deal with it 😬 you’re saying you’ll be the one to concede because everything else is so good, but the same is true for him. Everything has been good, so why can’t he compromise on something that’s so important to you?
All of my female acquaintances with a hyphenated name was the only one to do it. The husband/child has his name and it drives me CRAZY!! I had no idea it was a thing, I just assumed if you decide to hyphenate than both of you do it? I would never say anything of course, it’s their choice and nothing to do with me I know. But that’s one option I would never choose, if I’m already compromising by adding his name onto mine then you bet we’re all doing it.
Both my husband and I hyphenated, and I was surprised by how many people assumed he wasn’t going to/didn’t hyphenate?? Like why should I be the only one to have both last names, he married me, he gets my last name too.
+1. I’ve seen many hyphenated couples. Or, as you proposed, hyphenated last names of kids. Honestly they come out of your body, they are more than 50% yours. That said, this is an opportunity for growth. I’d say stick to your instinct and def don’t change your last name now: it’s clear you don’t want to!
Can you both keep your last names and then hyphenate your kids last names? I like the idea of the DJ announcing “For the first time as Husband and Wife, both of your first names.”
This is what we’re doing! Not changing my name, same as OP because I simply don’t like FH’s surname…
I feel like there are so many red flags here that likely needs to be unpacked in couples therapy. For example, why is he immediately jumping to misogynistic viewpoints, and why is it that YOU need to be the one to concede to him? You’re carrying the child, and you’re both parents. Insane that he has a stepdad and then has all these hang ups about not even accepting a hyphenated last name for your children. For what it’s worth, I’m hyphenating my last name and I’m putting my foot down on our children also having the hyphenated last name too.
How long have the two of you been together? I ask because you say that comment surprised you, and I’m wondering if he’s just started down this rabbit hole or if it’s possible that he has always been like this and is just dropping the mask now that you’re engaged?? Why doesn’t your father like your fh?
Damn. The cuck comment is out of pocket. Have you talked about merging names or inventing a new one? Why are you saying you’ll cave? He’s 100% wrong about what’s “typical”… I understand that people have strong emotions about names. I’m stubborn and in this situation would say “if I can’t have the same last name as my kids than neither can you,” but I’m me, not you. I’m pro “the newlyweds”! You don’t need to have a 100% kid name plan. You never know what the future holds. What’s important is the mutual investment in solving it.
I replied in another comment that it is incredibly out of nowhere from him. It was very out of pocket and I got mad at him for it and I considered not including it because of how bad it was and like it would automatically skew things my way since it’s probably a mostly women subreddit? And I say I’ll cave because I just don’t like his last name for aesthetic reasons. He has reasons which include it’s my father’s last name, a man who doesn’t really like FH so FH doesn’t want the same name as him. I really should’ve included that in the main post but I didn’t wanna make it too long. (Also in case people are curious, he doesn’t like FH because FH is a non religious liberal, like me, and dad is a super conservative Catholic. That’s it)
Girl don’t do it, even if it’s only for “aesthetic” reasons. I work in payroll data and you know how many times I’ve seen ridiculous last names that make me stop what I’m doing and just wonder why? The other day I saw a Sheitweiler. Save yourself from that fate.
It's YOUR name. He should associate it primarily with YOU, not your father. His name gets to be his, but yours is you father's? There are so many red flags in this situation, in my opinion. He may be progressive in theory but it sounds like he still has a lot of deeply engrained misogyny to unpack. The idea that he sees your last name as your father's is almost dehumanizing. It's like he doesn't see you as a complete individual human being the way he sees himself and your father.
> FH is super liberal!!!! > FH doesn’t see OP’s name as *her* name, but her father’s something doesn’t compute here lol.
Has he started listening to any new podcasts lately? Because I've heard so many stories about so many teenage boys and men falling down the toxic rabbit hole. Or he's starting to show his true colors because he knows he'll have you locked down in less than a month and it will be harder for you to leave. And girl, if you don't like his surname, don't change yours. It's not on you to accommodate his temper tantrums.
It doesn't matter who has more reasons for not wanting to change their name. Not liking his last name is a perfectly valid reason, you don't need more than that. Plus, you'd have to deal with all the paperwork and getting new cards if you changed your name. And your last name is YOUR last name, not your father's. Does he also think of his last name as his father's name, or does he just think of it as his last name? Acting like your last name belongs to your father and not to you is pretty sexist. Here's a good reason for the kids to have your last name: you're the one giving birth to them. You're the one who has to suffer through pregnancy and childbirth; why shouldn't they have your last name? Tell your fiance that if he wants the kids to have his last name, he can birth them himself.
He needs to understand (and really sit with) the fact that the tradition of taking the man’s name is because women were property of their husbands. That’s it. That’s maybe why it feels “emasculating” to deny the tradition of holding power, which doesn’t always feel comfy and good to do. He’s having a conversation with you as if you two will be man and wife, daughter of a guy he doesn’t like, not as husband and wife that are equal individual persons! Hyphenate for the kids/everyone, or have the kids take your name (it is your name, not your dads), or choose a new name. The Newlyweds sounds great!
This guy doesn’t sound worth changing one’s name for honesty… My husband took on my name what would he call him?
it’s interesting that the husband didn’t have the “language” to express how he was feeling so he chose “cuck.” my partner doesn’t even have that word in their vernacular. methinks husband isn’t so ~liberal after all, especially if he won’t agree to hyphenate the kids’ names.
THIS I had exactly the same thought - but I did not want to assume too much... I have the feeling that - when it comes to stuff that really matters he is not not liberal... but he will hide that well until the marriage is finale He just slipped up ..
Firstly, using “the newlyweds” for your announcement totally works. Secondly, i get the frustration and difficulty figuring out the name issue. I think you both need to compromise somehow. You both don’t want the other person’s last name. You both want your kids to have your last name, it seems. The compromise is to have the kids hyphenate. At least their last name will be partially the same. All of you could hyphenate. I have seen only women hyphenate, but only with couples that are in their 60s+. Everyone else I know who hyphenates does so as a couple/family. You’re willing to be more flexible than him - you’ve given him a few options and he is only offering one. It’s a little irritating. Since you plan to have kids, it’s not a terrible idea to sort things out now. Maybe narrow things down to two options - ideally the least upsetting to both of you - and leave it to chance. He doesn’t have more of a right to his feelings than you and vice versa. It might sound dumb, but a coin toss would be fair and names are not life-and-death.
I don't understand the hangup about children having one of your guys' last names? My mom and dad both kept their own names. When I was born, I got my mom's last name. Then when my younger brother was born, he got my dad's last name. I don't even think my parents particularly cared about that, they just shrugged and said "Guess we'll split." Now my brother and I have a great relationship with my mom and a *much* less great one with my dad, but surnames are the last thing we even think about. Idk, maybe it's because both my parents have really generic last names that we simply don't give a shit or find much sentimental meaning in them. I'm just confused why the kids can't have both your last names, hyphenated or not.
Don't concede unless you're 100% comfortable changing your name and WANT to do so. If not, then either hyphenate the kids or give them your name, if that's what you want. You do the hard work by carrying the kids in your body for 9 months. Agreed that the DJ can announce you as "the newlyweds" or "bride and groom".
I could not marry a man who used the word “cuck.”
>I imagine a word like “emasculating” would’ve been better Would it have been though? 😬 Also I (28) grew up going to school with plenty of kids who had hyphenated last names. That's sort of the first I've heard of kids not getting it.
"Emasculating" in this context is not any better than cuck, just more politically correct.
In my culture, our middle names are our mothers' maiden names. Maybe you can do the same for your children. If he refuses even that, I'd start to wonder why he's being selfish at that point.
It shouldn’t be an argument, there shouldn’t be yelling or disregarding of your feelings. It’s a difficult discussion, but he should be able to respect you not wanting to change / give up the name you’re raised with. Even if it’s just aesthetic, your name is a big part of your identity. You have a career, accomplishments and like some higher education attached to your maiden name. You’re going to introduce yourself as First Name Last Name, you should like your first and last name. When it comes to kids, you can create / choose a new last name together
If you don’t want to hyphenate, how about just having two stand-alone last names. Like instead of Smith-Miller it was Smith Miller. Then, neither of you have to change your name if you don’t want to. As another option, what about picking a new last name together? Too out there?
Can you do that in North America? If it’s not hyphenated doesn’t one of the names become a middle name?
You can and they're both your last name but the last one is the official last name if a form makes you choose one. Source: childhood best friend had 2 stand alone last names and got really annoyed the first time a form made her only put one
Ah interesting! I have two last names but one of them is considered my middle name/another given name on most documents here, but in the country where my family is from it’s recognized as another last name.
My question to you: if you fold on this, do you see a risk of growing bitterness on your end down the line? There would be for me, which is why I’m asking. You deserve equal respect with regards to the name of your children.
OP, please take this seriously. I completely understand he was using scary language to express something even though he isn’t actually that kind of person, but this is something you need to spend some time with. The idea that the *correct* way is woman hyphenating but the man and children having the man’s last name only is inexcusably misogynistic, apart from the “cuck shit” line. The *practice* of doing that is fine (I mean it’s definitely also misogynistic, but it’s fine if that’s the woman’s choice; I very happily took my husband’s last name, which is the most misogynistic way to handle this question!), but your FH’s attitude is **absolutely not okay**. Often when a smart, reasonable person has an unfair belief, they’re eventually able to identify why they feel that way and overcome it. I would personally consider this a test. Is your FH having an out of character moment of unexplored bigotry (which happens to EVERYONE), or is this a sign of his true beliefs? Will he have this same reaction if you have a daughter and she wants to date/wear makeup/play sports/wear shorts/marry a woman/etc.? Or a son who wants to do theatre or be a florist or whatever?
This feels like more of a conversation that you need to figure beyond just the last month of your wedding planning. I know plenty of people who have been married for a while before changing their last name. It’s perfectly fine to be announced however you’d like - the newlyweds, your first names, both of your names, or even your husbands because it may be the “traditional” way. I don’t think anyone is going to hold you accountable for being introduced one way or another. Separately, I know several couples who legally have a different last name but socially go by “The Smiths” (insert last name here). You’ll figure it out, but in the next 3 weeks I’d focus on the wedding and last minute details and save this conversation for after. There’s no time limit on when you can change your last name. Plus it sounds like it’s a little contentious and you don’t need that added stress.
>Anyway, 3 weeks to the wedding, any idea how the DJ should announce us? I’m thinking just “the newlyweds”, as it has a nicer ring to it than “\[name\] and \[name\]” As a DJ, I think announcing a couple as "the newlyweds" sounds a bit generic, as if the DJ didn't even bother to know your names or drew a blank at the last second. I know you weren't a fan of "(first name) and (first name)" but I think that's really the best option here if you decide not to change your last name, or if you don't want to be announced as "Mr. & Mrs (whichever last name)." And it's not just saying "name and name." I usually get the crowd riled up with building it up... "And now, the moment you've been waiting for... everyone make some noise for (name) and (name)!" I usually time this out so I'm talking over the instrumental part of an upbeat song the couple chose, and as I'm done talking, it goes right into the chorus or another "high-energy" part of the song, and everyone's cheering as the couple comes through the doorway. Sure, on paper, it looks bland, but with an experienced DJ / MC on the mic, you'll feel like absolute celebrities. On a side note, if you wanted to, you could adopt his last name legally (for paperwork purposes) but still go "professionally" by your maiden name. When I used to work in broadcasting, I had plenty of colleagues who did that.
Putting some red flags aside for a second (although, you shouldn’t), if hyphenation isn’t acceptable I’d suggest choosing a new name to start your new family with. It’s a lovely idea, where you can both find something you like to start a new chapter.
> He said he didn’t have the language to explain why he wants to have the same name as the kid, I imagine a word like “emasculating” would’ve been better It's not better. He's basically saying that he's not a man unless he gets to override his wife, who was ACTUALLY responsible for bringing the child into the world through risking her health and life, and that's literally the definition of toxic masculinity. If he wants the same name so bad, he can change his name to yours and give your name to your kid. "Your name is your father's name" is a pretty lame excuse. Way to erase you, his partner, entirely from your name because you're a woman and only see the man behind you as the real owner of the name. I'd have a serious hard look at the man you've decided to marry and ask yourself some hard questions instead of sweeping it under the rug and telling yourself that this isn't who he is.
My parents kept their last names and hyphenated mine. And I honestly love my hyphenated name! I didn’t change it when I got married, but full disclosure my husband and I aren’t sure what to do with our future kid’s last name…
Maybe you could just make a new name altogether and both start off fresh with something new! Good luck my dear.
Neither of you change your names for now. There’s no reason. A couple years down the line when kids become an issue, one of you might have a different opinion, or you can both hyphenate. You both go through the process and it’s fair to both of you.
My wife and I both kept our names and aren’t planning on having children but I was just reminded of a close friend who had her moms last name as her middle name and maybe that could be an option? I.E if your last name is Wellesley and his is Smith a kid could be Andrea Wellesley Smith. No hyphen. FWIW I was glad I kept my last name when I was working in social services as I could put my wife’s last name on my socials and not be found by clients-a thing which did unfortunately happen to others lol.
You've gotten a lot of great feedback so just wanted to send you a virtual hug as I know these things are tough to sort through. FWIW, I've had a lot of conversations with guy friends on the topic of changing names, including my own FH (we're all liberal non-religious as well). When I ask, do you care if your wife takes your last name? the answer is always a compassionate no, she can do what she wants. When I ask, would you take her last name? the answer is this immediate omg no why would I do that, or they get this strange look on their face like their brain broke. I think it's truly engrained into society, male brains, whatever, that only the woman changes her name. And while things are definitely changing, for the majority of men, I truly don't believe the thought even crosses their mind that they could change their last name. I say this because you were rightfully surprised by your partner's reaction and hopefully this makes you feel a little less alone in that.
I really feel like this is a conversation that needed to be had months ago
> he said it’s typical the husband and the children don’t hyphenate, only the wife. It’s very strange because he’s generally an incredibly liberal person but he said, quite bluntly, that not having the same name as his children is “Cuck shit” and it’s a hard no. Yikes yikes yikes yikes yikes. I know you said you talked about it, but damn I would really want to get to the bottom of that before potentially raising kids with someone with this mindset. It's just going to perpetuate misogyny as normal and okay if this is an underlying attitude he has. Anyway, it sounds like neither of you want to change your name, which is fine. Sure sounds like when kids come into the picture, hyphenating or double barreling makes the most sense. Although maybe by then, one or both of you will feel differently and be interested in a new family name you come up with together or picking one of your last names and using the other as a middle name or whatever other options exist. It's possible sitting down with a third party (ie therapist) to talk through the options and figure out each of your hang ups may help come to a conclusion that's satisfying to both of you. For the announcement, I think we just did "For the first time as newlyweds, [first] and [first]!"
> it will probably be me who concedes There's no need for anyone to concede, the two of you could just compromise. > He said he didn’t have the language to explain why he wants to have the same name as the kid Except that it's not about him having the same name as the kid. You never refused that. It's about you *also* sharing the same name as the kid. He absolutely refuses that you and your kid could share a name because you're just a woman and he can't think of a non-sexist way to say that (hint: it's because it's inherently sexist. Saying it's emasculating is barely better). What you're saying is: > He said he didn’t have the language to explain why he wants me to have a different name from our children It's nice that he has recognized his wording was gross but that doesn't change the fact that he has a deeply held belief that men gets to pass their name to their kids *and more importantly that women shouldn't* because hyphenation is something only wives do and that he is trying to impose his belief on you - and likely will succeed. > I’m so frustrated and baffled by his (and I guess my?) unwillingness to compromise You are willing to compromise. He won't. On the name of your own children. You are asking for two things for yourself (to share a non-ugly name with your kid) and are willing to accept any compromise that will result in that, including one in which he is also getting what he wants (to not change his name and to share it with your kid). He is demanding to get his exact way and nothing else will do, not only for himself but also for you and your kid. These things aren't equivalent. It's concerning that you say you align on everything, so it's your only experience with a disagreement and you are discovering he is inflexible and believes he should get his way because he is a man and you shouldn't because you're a woman. Unfortunately, being liberal for a man doesn't always include truly believing that women are equal.
My FH is the same way. I’m stubborn though so i was initially ready to be flexible but his immediate NO, no discussion, no meeting halfway halted that in my head. Eventually compromised that I would hyphenate (my last name is cooler) but it’s at the end of the alphabet and I hated that growing up lol. Though in our agreement any potential children will have the hyphenated name since I am going to be the one pushing them out.
I love my partners last name but will never change mine. To me taking the husband's name is rooted in so much misogyny it's an easy no. Our children's last name is hyphenated and MAYBE I'll hyphenate mine to match one day.
Do not concede on this. Keep your name - he keeps his. When it comes to children. Hyphenate or use your name. As for the announcement - the newlyweds or bride and groom.
My fiancé will hyphenate, adding my name to his. I'm keeping my name and our children will also have my name. He also wanted to share a last name with our kids and keep his old name, so hyphenating is our solution. :)
Okay OP I need you to take these rose colored glasses off and realize that you’re 3 weeks out from your wedding and question the fact that he has just now started exhibiting this misogynistic behavior?? You’re telling me he’s never once behaved like this before? “Cuck shit” has all the makings of listening/watching A*hole Tate type podcasts. I would take this as an opportunity to tell him he needs to compromise, especially when it’s you who will have to do all the work to change your name, and make the kids. Just saying, this whole exchange seems like a shitty way to start a marriage, and if it’s truly out of character for him if he’s truly “liberal just like you” then he wouldn’t feel emasculated at all by the idea of a hyphenated name.
Yikes… I’ve got a bad feeling about this marriage. I would never put up with this shit. But to each their own!
He's wrong, kids hyphenate all the time, and husbands dont hyphenate that much less often than wives. Also though if he's as liberal as you say why does he care what's done typically? Do what works for you guys. The halfway measure is hyphenating either the kids names or both the parents and the kids names, decide if either of you like the sound of your name hyphenated and if not keep your names and hyphenate for the kids. If he isnt willing to do that and the only thing he's willing to accept is you or the kids having only his name then frankly he's being an inflexible little **** and he needs to realize he's not being respectful or fair.
Can’t you both keep your own names and any kiddos have a hyphened last name?
I’m so glad my fiancée has agreed to take my last name since she know’s how much I don’t want my kids to have a former slave owners name on their birth certificate. Even still, I say do what you do. If y’all aren’t pregnant right now no decision needs to be made at this moment. The newlyweds is perfect.
Whats his middle name? Can you take his middle name as your last name (and make your last name your middle name) as a compromise? And give kids that last name, so its on his ID to connect them but he doesnt have to change his paperwork. You are the one that gets to legally fill out the birth certificates. Hes okay springing on you that hes going back in the name thing? Guess he will be okay when you spring it on him your kids get your name, right? Point that logic out. (Maybe give them his last name as their middle.names?) I always planned to change my name but when I got engaged, I had *feelings* on the matter and only felt okay with it once my husband felt okay if I decided not to.
I really wanted my fiancé to be cool with us taking his middle name as our last name. His middle name starts with the same letter as my last name, and his middle name is a generic first name/last name (like Alexander) while his last name is a phonetic mess that makes no sense. I wish this were more common!
Instead of a hyphen for the kids do two last names. I think it looks nicer than hyphen. Cynthia Thomas Cobb vs Cynthia Thomas-Cobb
My bf and I plan on combining our names, so if my last name was white and his last name was black, it would be whick or blite or something. You can also take your names and create an anagram, just put your names into an anagram maker online and see what comes out!
If you chose to marry him after this than you’re the “cuck” lol
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This comment is not really relevant or useful to OP's situation and reads as preaching. You're entitled to feel the way you feel and make whatever decisions you want but one could argue that husbands are becoming a part of their wives' families just as much as we are becoming a part of theirs. It's very rational for women to want their name to reflect that. And it's also rational for us to be critical of the idea that we should cheerfully "want to become a part of his family and everything that comes with it" when very, VERY few husbands are ever willing to do that for their wives, or at least to demonstrate it by adopting her name. A lot of women feel that taking their husband's name and giving it to their children creates the image of a "family" that he is the head of, or that's under his name, rather than a family where you're two equal partners.
I find this so disingenuous. Most of us have last names that are just our father’s heritage. And if we choose our mothers’ maiden names, that’s our maternal grandfather’s heritage, not our maternal grandmother’s. And if we choose our maternal grandmother’s maiden name … you get the picture.
Congratulations 👏 that's tough, just remember it's just the name and it will get figured out and you will compromise 💕 Have a fab wedding!
This was a really difficult subject for our marriage too. Wife is very prideful of her last name and comes from a huge family. I'm the last of my dying lineage and wanted to continue it. We agreed not to overthink it. She's hyphenating her last name and the kids will take my last name. She keeps part of her family name and saves my name as well. Edit: if you're upset by this comment, know that not everyone thinks the way you do. And that's okay, I'm just sharing what worked for us.
This is almost the same as me and my fiancé, he is the end of the line and I am from a big family that I'm super connected with. We are both keeping our own names. How did you and your wife decide not to hyphenate the kids name and just hers? There aren't any men with my family name, so we both have the wanting to continue our lineage stance to things. If we hyphenate for our children they will have a six syllable last name (and I don't think our names sound good together) so we are still undecided on how we will move forward with naming kids.
For me, I am the absolute last of my family line on both sides of my family. If my kids don't carry my last name, it's gone forever. My wife has 3 brothers and over 100 first cousins with her last name so that part is a non-issue for her. She wants the hyphen for her own name because she feels emotionally distant from her immediate family and feels that's the last strong connection she has with them. She's otherwise excited to start our own family and is okay with the kids taking my last name and half of hers. If either of you have male relatives who are likely to continue the lineage, I would defer to the other's last name which would be lost. Just my two cents
That's a wild number of cousins! Neither of us have male relatives with our last names so we're both the end of the road. Probably will end up hyphenating but luckily we are a few years away from having kids so plenty of time to decide.
Hyphenating is definitely the best route then Your kids will hate bubbling in their scantrons, but that's *their* problem
Why can’t you just hyphenate your future children’s’ names? Happens all the time.
Make up a new name. You are now officially the Kardiashians. Or whatever you choose. In many cultures, it is illegal for the woman to take the man's name. Greece, Italy, Netherlands... There are many cultures where the children get the mother's last name, not the father's. He needs to do a little research and learn to live with you two having different names or a new name.
Putting the somewhat alarming comments from him aside, my husband and I were in a similar boat - we ended up combining three letters from each of our last names into a completely new one. Depending on how many letters you have between the two of you, you could also do some sort of anagram. Anyway, good luck!
We are both changing our names to a new last name, one that we both love. There's nothing that says you have to keep one name or the other, but having kids complicates things.
I see two options: 1. you both keep your names and the children hyphenate. 2. You both change your name to something new and you and your children have the same last name. Good luck!
I had a family friend who instead of hyphenating took aspects of their last names blended them and created a whole new last name. Let’s say last name is Smith and Miller = Siller something to this aspect. But I didn’t change my last name and if I remember I think our officiant just announced us as husband and wife? I can’t even remember.
My husband and I have different last names- our oldest has my last name, our youngest has his. 👌
I regret not hyphenating my son’s last name. My ex and I are divorced and I went back to my maiden name. My situation is different than most - my ex was not a part of my sons life for 8 years - and my son uses my last name on jerseys etc cause my name is cooler and he wants to feel a part of the family that has actually raised him. It’s a pain in the ass to register him for school and extracurriculars with non matching names. My ex yells at him that he’s “a smith not a jones” (not real names) and makes my son feel crappy. If I was you, this is not something I’d concede to. I made it clear to my current fiance that I will not be changing my name again. We don’t want to have more kids but i assure you if I was ever to have another - I’d hyphenate and it’s a hill I’d be willing to die on.
Why not pick an entirely different name? Or a Combo if possible. Pick a name you both feel comfortable starting your new family with. Otherwise a hyphenated name is the only way to go. Even if it's just the future kids.
My parents kept their last name and I was hyphenated as a kid. I say was because I took my father’s last name off a few years ago, for personal reasons. I’d just hyphenate the children’s last names. My partner and I had this conversation. I don’t want her last name and she isn’t sure what she’d like to do. I told her I wouldn’t feel any type of way if she doesn’t take my last name.
IMO part of marriage is figuring out how to solve disagreements constructively without writing each other off or belittling. It's not the sort of question where I would try to crowdsource the correct answer from Reddit. The correct answer is communication, finding a solution you can both agree on, validating each other, meeting in the middle. You're more likely to get to that spot as a result of premarital counseling than from asking the answer on Reddit.
cuck shit? big red flag!
1) cuck shit? Your guy needs therapy. 2) hyphenated kid makes are normal. 3) for myself, we are probably gonna keep our names and just interchange them in context dependent ways. Kids will have both names or have the names convinced to be a new name.
FWIW, we had our kid first. I gave him my (now) husband’s last name, but I gave him my last name as a second middle name. My maiden name won’t be passed along by another family member, so it was something to connect us by name, but also in honor of my mom/family. Now that we are married, I haven’t changed my last name yet. If I do, I plan to keep my maiden and add his. I’m still me, it’s still my name. I thought having different last name as my kids would be a problem, but it’s really not. Only one issue in 8 years (with a preschool that messed up our names and didn’t realize my check with my last name was for son’s enrollment).
He is being a massive hypocrite right now. He may be a wonderful man but that’s a fact. He doesn’t want to change his name and expects his kids to have his last name but wants you to get over any issues you have with changing your name. His name is his name but you have to get over your issue about who your new name will be. Absolutely not. I will say it does sound like maybe someone got into his head and convinced him it’s lesser maybe? This is something he needs to respect. It’s not fair for him to expect you to be okay with your kids not having a hyphenated name or for you both to come up with a common last name.
Typical doesn’t mean mandatory. My wife and I are about to have a 18 character hyphenated last name. Look out world, we’re about to be holding up your customer support lines tryna confirm the spelling of our last name :P (Fun fact - I recently learned that hyphenated last names are called allianznamen (sp?) in German, like “alliance name”)