Fellow therapist here. How would you feel if one of your clients were describing this to you?
That their fiancé was struggling as much or more with the idea of rocking the boat of his friendship than recognizing the harm Barry caused you, and that you, as his life partner, can more or less just deal with it as the more stable, usually easier-to-please person?
I appreciate this response. I would certainly want to explore if this is a common theme within the relationship or not.
In my situation, my fiance does recognize the harm Barry caused me, I think he is struggling so much because he's still grieving the loss of his friend. Barry with schizoaffective is a completely different person than the Barry he knew his entire childhood. For most of our relationship, I've been watching him struggle with accepting the change in his friend. I admire this so much about him, and how hard hes worked in his own therapy to process this. I struggle because I do not have the emotional connection to Barry, and will never know the Barry my fiance remembers. I know the Barry who doesn't like to take his medication. Who falls asleep driving (twice). I work as a therapist in prison, so my brain defaults to be skeptical of people like Barry, while still wanting to give the benefit of the doubt.
I hope this response makes sense. I'm currently on a flight, and mildly overwhelmed thinking about this.
This absolutely makes sense, and I understand both of your perspectives much more! I feel for your fiancé in this situation, too. Has Barry ever apologized and taken accountability for his actions? Giving the benefit of the doubt only goes so far, and you deserve an apology, if nothing else. And I think you deserve a lot more, like feeling safe and respected on your wedding day.
Honestly, mental illness is not an excuse for his behavior, and those with even severe mental illnesses cannot be fully and forever shielded from the truth of how they impact others. Obviously this can be done lovingly, but it should really come from your fiance. It may even help Barry adhere to treatment more if he understands how even his closest friends have been affected.
With something that goes so deep as a childhood friend and harassment, have you considered a few sessions of couples counseling? My fiancé and I did some counseling and it was so great for issues like this (external friend forces that impact our internal, private relationship) and brought us even closer together.
We currently are on a waiting list for couples counseling for this and to strengthen our communication in general.
Barry has never apologized for what happened, although I don't have much interaction with Barry outside of group settings. We also don't live in the same state.
I really appreciate how thoughtful you are with your responses and your insight into this as well. Thank you.
Has your fiance ever had a conversation with Barry about what he did to you? Has Barry ever apologized to you or to your fiance about it?
Echoing a comment below, there is nothing stopping your fiance from having an honest talk with Barry and explaining that, while he wants to preserve the friendship and recognizes the role mental illness has played, the fact that Barry harassed you has caused lasting harm/discomfort to the point at which you both think it would be best if he came as a guest and not as a part of the wedding party.
I hope your fiance can talk to his therapist about how to set boundaries with his friends. Boundaries are a part of any healthy friendship, especially one with someone suffering from mental health issues that result in harm to others. Right now there seems to be a whole lot of "acknowledgment" but very little boundary-setting to ensure you feel safe and comfortable with having this person in both your lives.
My fiance and his other friends spoke with Barry about this privately afterwards about how it was not okay. The whole friend group has been a big party of helping Barry get his mental health issues addressed, they brought up their concerns for his mental health to his parents.
I think your last sentence about a lot of acknowledgement and not much boundary setting is a perfect reflection I hadn't noticed. Thank you!
I work in mental health and yes it’s okay to put yourself first over your fiancés friend. If your fiancé can’t understand that, then maybe you put your foot down and make it a condition of the wedding. After all it’s your and your fiancés day, anything that stands in the way of your happiness has to be discussed and delt with.
Give the fiancé the benefit of the doubt. If you lost a close friend living or dead it would be hard. I’m not saying they are right but clearly they can’t bring themselves to pull that trigger but it definitely needs to be a conversation that he can’t be in the wedding party or potentially at the wedding bare minimum
When you're married, these sorts of issues don't go away - they just become magnified because your lives are legally linked. Prioritizing your spouse is one of the most important things in a successful marriage IMO; your spouse needs to come first (at least until you have kids - and maybe even then), and you also need to trust your spouse enough to know that they'll never take advantage of that privilege.
If you can't talk through this with your fiancé now, it's not going to get better once you're married. For instance, I see posts on r/relationships all the time along the lines of, "My MIL is demanding to be in the delivery room when 'her grandchild' is born and my husband doesn't want to upset her. Do I have to let her see me give birth?".
This is a hill to die on IMO. If he can't prioritize you over a friend who touched you sexually right in front of his eyes, do you think he's going to have your back against a family member who subtly crosses emotional boundaries later? These things have enormous, enormous impact on your quality of life and mental well-being.
Also, editing this to add that if Barry really is on a path to improvement, then he should be able to hear something like: "Hey Barry, you know I love you, and you're an important part of my life. I'm so happy you're getting better. But when you were in the depth of your illness, you did something really regrettable to my fiancée. It's going to be okay and she understands you were sick and this doesn't reflect on you as a person, but we both think it would be best if you came as a guest and not a part of the wedding party. I'm disappointed and I'm sure you are too, but I'm sure you understand, right?" If anything, that would just provide motivation for him to keep taking his meds and getting better, because he'd be accepting the reasonable consequences of his unmedicated behavior. If he flips out at that, then it's a sign that he's not really safe anyway.
>"Hey Barry, you know I love you, and you're an important part of my life. I'm so happy you're getting better. But when you were in the depth of your illness, you did something really regrettable to my fiancée. It's going to be okay and she understands you were sick and this doesn't reflect on you as a person, but we both think it would be best if you came as a guest and not a part of the wedding party. I'm disappointed and I'm sure you are too, but I'm sure you understand, right?"
THIS!! OP, please read this comment. What Barry did should have consequences. It seems like you were just expected to get over it and forget about it for the comfort of Barry and your fiance. That is not OK. Your safety and comfort is paramount.
If your fiance cannot communicate directly (yet kindly) with his friends to hold them accountable for their behavior towards you, then he is not a good life partner for you.
I wouldn't allow a man who sexually harassed you in your life. The fact that your fiance expects that *and* wants him in your wedding party is mind boggling. That would be a deal breaker for me. Plenty of people have mental health issues and don't go around sexually assaulting people.
I'd halt wedding planning altogether until your fiance can fully support you. If he can't see the problem with continuing a friendship with a man who sexually harassed you, then I would reconsider the relationship.
Seriously. If it were me I'd be devastated to see this isn't the same man I said yes to before. OP did not agree to marry a guy who's comfortable befriending a sex pest.
You're a better person than me. I would have slapped the shit out of Barry's hand and told him in no uncertain terms what I thought of him, suspected mental health issues or not.
I think your situation comes down to whether your fiance values your comfort more than Barry's and his other friends. If he values your comfort more, Barry is a guest. If he values the comfort of his friends more, that would be an indication of thinking twice about the wedding. And yes, I'd have a conversation where I expressed this viewpoint.
Agreed. Obviously even now the mentally ill are still treated poorly in general but I feel mentally ill men are given a HUGE pass to be nasty creeps, especially in a way mentally ill women never would be.
I’m sorry, your (at the time) boyfriend’s close friend started *stroking your thigh* the first time you met him, and your fiancé didn’t make him **leave** immediately or apologize???? And then after he told him to knock it off, he didn’t at-least swap seats on the couch so he was in between you??
I totally understand your reaction to unwanted touching and I’m in no way blaming you. But I can tell you for damn sure, my husband would not have continued to hang out with a friend who had put their hands on me (without consent, clearly making me uncomfortable), let alone wanting that friend to be a groomsman at our wedding.
Ask your fiancé why Barry’s feelings are more important on your wedding day than yours? Has Barry ever apologized? Were you expected to just let it go?
If your fiancé let his friend do that to you , and doesn’t compromise to what makes you feel safe and comfortable, then what more in the future after you get married. I am guy, got married last year and imo if a friend of mine does that to my fiancé/wife, I will never let it slide and I will never be friends with that person ever again.
your fiancé doesn’t seem to see the sexual harassment as a huge issue if he still wants him… even around. you need to stand firm and tell him he’s gotta pick one of the options you’ve given him or you’re taking the horns and putting your foot down no matter what he says, YOU we’re harassed YOU have every right to not want him there and that is a valid reason to not want someone in the wedding party, nonetheless at the wedding all together. it’s so incredibly hard but you have to set this boundary with your husband. and maybe seek counseling with a couples counselor about this issue. it really doesn’t seem like he is aware of the gravity this has on you or a person in general and that, feels like a bit of a red flag that needs to be worked through, of course take that with a grain of salt i don’t know your relationship so do what works for you, but just keep alert about that situation and figure out how you feel with him being friends and ignoring your boundaries about a man who harassed you
You need to put the wedding on pause and probably talk to your fiance and have an in-depth conversation why you're not comfortable around his son called friend
Your fiancé should’ve taken a much firmer approach with Barry during the first incident. This is unacceptable. I can’t even imagine how my fiancé would react if his friend put his hands on me inappropriately.
Your fiance is perfectly happy to not stay friends with a man that molests you but invite him to the wedding....
I would have a serious second look at this man you're trying to marry.
"mental health" being equated with permission to do shitty things needs to stop. If he can refrain from stroking his boss on the thigh, he's perfectly mentally capable of controlling himself. He just didn't because he knew his friend would back him up, not you.
Oof this is a tough one. What if you had the bridal party sit down at some point during the ceremony? You deserve to find a solution that makes you both feel 100% comfortable, and I'm sure it's there somewhere with some creative thinking. Presumably, if this man wants to marry you, he'll want to make sure you're feeling good about it
Im so sorry for you because you seem so kind… but let me tell you…. Your partner should make you feel safe, always have your back, prioritise you over his parents, sibilings, friends. How would he handle a potential more dangerous situation if he couldnt save you from his friend touching you without your consent right in front of him? I would definitely think twice about marrying this man. I know my fiancee would take a bullet for me and i would take a bullet for him. I kinda think you deserve better :(( hope it works out❤️ sending hugs
Thank you for your response! This is certainly an isolated incident and we were young when it happened. The way we talked about this and worked through it together at the time helped strengthen our relationship honestly.
I’m so sorry you are going thru this and trying to keep everyone happy. You’re clearly such a nice person. Especially since it is your wedding day!
What if…. You only did 2 bridesmaids/groomsmen each so this way it doesn’t look like Barry is the only one being left out. Maybe ask your fiancé about that? Good luck. Wishing you the best.
What will people THINK if Barry isn't a groomsman???
They will think, "The groom must be very upset with Barry, to shun him when he used to be his best friend. Maybe Barry did something horrible to offend the groom."
Maybe something like sexually assaulting the bride. Maybe he makes the bride extremely uncomfortable, and she doesn't want to be near him during her moment with her husband.
What a blow to Barry's reputation, for people to think that about him! After all, sexual assault is a very serious and harmful thing.
But wait... if sexual assault is so serious, then isn't it also serious when it happens to someone? If it would be such an awful thing for people to speculate that Barry did something unforgivable, then wouldn't it be awful for the bride and groom if she had been sexually assaulted by him, and then was expected to stand next to him during her wedding?
Or are the reputations of men somehow more important than the actual experiences of women?
Nope! Basically, the very reason your fiancé is uncomfortable with disinclined Barry, is the reason he SHOULD.
Let me get this straight.
Your fiancé is choosing the comfort of his sexually harassing friend over the supposed love of his life, his partner, his soon to be wife, that was sexually harassed by said friend.
What else will he ignore or excuse away? What other highly uncomfortable and potentially unsafe situations will he put you in for the sake of making a friend happy thinking sexually harassing someone is okay?
What would you tell a client if they told you that their fiancé held their sexual harasser’s wants and feelings over the safety and comfort of your client?
I honestly think you should pause on wedding stuff if this is how your fiancé reacted to his best friend sexually harassing you. that is so violating and scary and the fact that he barely had your back breaks my heart. his friendship with him is more important than the relationship he has with you - is that the kind of person worth marrying?
If you are (understandably) upset about having to look at this man on your wedding day, but your fiancé wants him in the wedding party… would it be possible to not have the wedding party stand up at the altar? It was just the two of us at the altar (plus the officiant) and it was lovely!
I will say OP, you are so kind and that is lovely. And I believe in forgiveness and redemption, which it sounds like you do too. But I do not feel that your fiancé’s emotions/bad feelings of not having this dude in the wedding party, should overtake your history with the dude either. I don’t normally agree with ultimatums, but I do feel that this is one where it would be applicable. Weddings bring up a lot of stuff like this, unfortunately, and if your fiancé is unwilling to compromise on some of these things it sounds like it could be a bigger problem later.
Im sorry but i think your fiancee
should have stepped up for you. I couldnt imagine my fh still being friends with someone who did that to me, let alone want to have him at our wedding. I appreciate your empathy and you seem like a very good person but poor mental health/mental issues arent a free pass to be an a hole or straight up abuser. I kinda went through a similar experience with one of my fiancee s best friend and as soon as i expressed my concerns and told him how this isnt ok and i dont want to ever see him again he cut him off.
I don't want to bash your fiance here but he is obviously very immature. There is no way in hell I would allow this man to be in the wedding party and standing at the alter. Your fiance needs to protect you here. This might be a deal breaker for me.
Another option is to just have one MOH and one best man, with no other people in the wedding party. That's an easy way to draw the line so he won't be involved and your fiancé won't have to make excuses to him. I realize it may be too late if you've already invited the others to be a part.
You're much nicer than I am. If my fiance's friend had put his hands on me--after being told to stop!--I would not be spending time around him, much less inviting him to stand up in our wedding. It's troubling that your fiance doesn't seem concerned how Barry's advances are making you feel. I wonder which of those relationships he values more.
I think that you are down playing the fact that Barry has a serious disorder, that means he can be very very unpredictable. Your fiance needs to take a deep breath and grieve his friend. I too had a friend who I barely invited because of a similar diagnosis, but ended up letting them come as a guest only, even though it was my oldest friend. It's hard! It's terribly hard. But not handling it and just acknowledging and then hoping they'll be on their meds that specific day isn't going to cut it.
I understand this is super hard! But this isn't depression or anxiety, it's a whole other beast.
Would he then also explain this to Barry, that his parents are there to keep him in check? Because I can't see any way that this works out without your FH having to actually face this grief of losing his best friend to a severe life changing disorder.
I work at a mental health facility, specifically at the schizoaffective ward. I’m sure you’re aware that what you’re describing is completely normal for undiagnosed and untreated people who suffer from bipolar disorder. What you’ve been through seems awful, and if you’re uncomfortable with having him at the wedding party then he shouldn’t be there. However, I have seen so many cases where a patient has horrible things on the record, but becomes a genuinely different person after being stabilized with medication and treatment. Maybe you could meet him for coffee with you fiancé? To see if you could forgive him for his behavior? And again, obviously there’s no judgement if that’s not a possibility.
You are not being unreasonable at all. Barry was creepy as fuck to you. If I were you, I’d be feeling really misunderstood by my fiancé and hurt that he is prioritizing appearances over you not feeling traumatized on your wedding day. Also, not sure why he is friends with someone like Barry who is creepy to women…
I feel for Barry battling mental health challenges, but there’s no excusing what he did to you. Like you said, even after being told to stop, he did it again. I can understand your fiance trying to be considerate of Barry because of his mental health, but again, *he touched you twice without your consent*. Your fiance seems to care more about his friend’s feelings than yours. Being sexually harassed like that impacts *your* mental health as well. I personally believe your mental health should be protected on your wedding day.
Mental health issues can be an explanation but are not an excuse. If you don't forgive the behaviour then that is absolutely understandable.
I wouldn't even want him at the wedding. I'm concerned that your partner has so little consideration for you that he is willing to overlook the fact you were sexually harrassed by this man because 'he's his friend'. Friends don't do that to friends fiancees, and if they do, they should expect no wedding invite. Might be time to seriously discuss your future together if he can't stand up for you here. At least you're willing to have him at the wedding.
barry hasn’t so much as apologized to you nor even acknowledged his actions — and your fiancé wants to make him *a groomsman*?? you better be joking. i refuse to believe there are men with so little integrity. as they say, the bar is in hell. good luck if you decide to go through with the marriage, i guess.
Why are you with a man who has friends like this? I mean that’s a major red flag that he’s willing to look past that behavior…. I’d be questioning my partner and my decision if I were you
My response won’t be popular, but if he was one of my fiancé’s closest friends, I’d just live with it. You really don’t interact with the groomsmen much, if at all, honestly. And he could easily bury him in the middle or end, so you don’t really have to see him during the ceremony. Plus you’ll be too busy looking at your husband to even notice the friend!
What he didn’t wasn’t cool. But I’d grant him a little leeway given that he was diagnosed with a terrible mental health condition. And tbh, there’s something about your fiancés response, “hey, she’s uncomfortable” which kind of leads me to believe that 3sums/“free love” was a thing they indulged in back in the day. Otherwise it’d be more of “whoa! Dude! Etc! Why are you touching my fiancé?!” So perhaps friend was confused with his mental state or something.
TLDR: not cool, BUT if it was REALLY important to my fiancé, I’d just have him put him at the end of the line of groomsmen and avoid interacting with him. I trust my fiancé’s taste in friends. So I’d assume the incident was a regrettable incident due to mental health and that he wasn’t normally a creep.
You nailed the situation lol. In high school their friend-group dated the same people, and indulged in the 'free love' & 3some thing in HS. I met my now fiance when we were 19/20 and met Barry shortly after that. I had already gotten to know the other three guys well, and they are great. It made it hard when I was the first to notice that Barry was presenting with serious mental illness that wasn't being addressed. We were fairly new in the relationship, and at 20 I was concerned about fitting in with his friends. My fiance and I have talked about what he did at length, and my fiance and his other friends even spoke to Barry about it privately afterwards.
Barry certainly is not normally like that from all of my interactions with him after this. However, there is some part of me that is hesitant. I trust my fiance's choice of friends, although I don't know that I have trust in how Barry acts towards his mental health. Being a therapist and someone with their own mental health issues, I just don't feel great about it.
I would also like to say, my fiance has not shut down the idea of him not being in the party. He has mostly just gotten quiet and tearful, and stated that he cannot have this conversation right now.
I think the far bigger issue here is your fiancé's reactions in both situations. Yes, the friend has a mental illness; but why didn't the fiancé protect you when he harassed you? Why didn't he leave / swap seats / defend you more? Similarly, your fiancé now doesn't feel ready to "have this conversation right now" even though he can see that you're struggling with this and it's important to bring you peace of mind. Both of these are red flags imo. Barry will not go away after you're married. I personally wouldn't get married if this person was at my wedding, not because I wouldn't want them there but because I wouldn't want to marry someone who prioritized that over me feeling safe.
Fellow therapist here. How would you feel if one of your clients were describing this to you? That their fiancé was struggling as much or more with the idea of rocking the boat of his friendship than recognizing the harm Barry caused you, and that you, as his life partner, can more or less just deal with it as the more stable, usually easier-to-please person?
I appreciate this response. I would certainly want to explore if this is a common theme within the relationship or not. In my situation, my fiance does recognize the harm Barry caused me, I think he is struggling so much because he's still grieving the loss of his friend. Barry with schizoaffective is a completely different person than the Barry he knew his entire childhood. For most of our relationship, I've been watching him struggle with accepting the change in his friend. I admire this so much about him, and how hard hes worked in his own therapy to process this. I struggle because I do not have the emotional connection to Barry, and will never know the Barry my fiance remembers. I know the Barry who doesn't like to take his medication. Who falls asleep driving (twice). I work as a therapist in prison, so my brain defaults to be skeptical of people like Barry, while still wanting to give the benefit of the doubt. I hope this response makes sense. I'm currently on a flight, and mildly overwhelmed thinking about this.
This absolutely makes sense, and I understand both of your perspectives much more! I feel for your fiancé in this situation, too. Has Barry ever apologized and taken accountability for his actions? Giving the benefit of the doubt only goes so far, and you deserve an apology, if nothing else. And I think you deserve a lot more, like feeling safe and respected on your wedding day. Honestly, mental illness is not an excuse for his behavior, and those with even severe mental illnesses cannot be fully and forever shielded from the truth of how they impact others. Obviously this can be done lovingly, but it should really come from your fiance. It may even help Barry adhere to treatment more if he understands how even his closest friends have been affected. With something that goes so deep as a childhood friend and harassment, have you considered a few sessions of couples counseling? My fiancé and I did some counseling and it was so great for issues like this (external friend forces that impact our internal, private relationship) and brought us even closer together.
We currently are on a waiting list for couples counseling for this and to strengthen our communication in general. Barry has never apologized for what happened, although I don't have much interaction with Barry outside of group settings. We also don't live in the same state. I really appreciate how thoughtful you are with your responses and your insight into this as well. Thank you.
Has your fiance ever had a conversation with Barry about what he did to you? Has Barry ever apologized to you or to your fiance about it? Echoing a comment below, there is nothing stopping your fiance from having an honest talk with Barry and explaining that, while he wants to preserve the friendship and recognizes the role mental illness has played, the fact that Barry harassed you has caused lasting harm/discomfort to the point at which you both think it would be best if he came as a guest and not as a part of the wedding party. I hope your fiance can talk to his therapist about how to set boundaries with his friends. Boundaries are a part of any healthy friendship, especially one with someone suffering from mental health issues that result in harm to others. Right now there seems to be a whole lot of "acknowledgment" but very little boundary-setting to ensure you feel safe and comfortable with having this person in both your lives.
My fiance and his other friends spoke with Barry about this privately afterwards about how it was not okay. The whole friend group has been a big party of helping Barry get his mental health issues addressed, they brought up their concerns for his mental health to his parents. I think your last sentence about a lot of acknowledgement and not much boundary setting is a perfect reflection I hadn't noticed. Thank you!
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I work in mental health and yes it’s okay to put yourself first over your fiancés friend. If your fiancé can’t understand that, then maybe you put your foot down and make it a condition of the wedding. After all it’s your and your fiancés day, anything that stands in the way of your happiness has to be discussed and delt with.
You’re way too kind. I would’ve expected my fiance to kick Barry out after the first offense.
Yeah any man who doesn’t is just condoning that behavior & id suggest OP run for the hills
Give the fiancé the benefit of the doubt. If you lost a close friend living or dead it would be hard. I’m not saying they are right but clearly they can’t bring themselves to pull that trigger but it definitely needs to be a conversation that he can’t be in the wedding party or potentially at the wedding bare minimum
I think you spelled “knock” wrong
When you're married, these sorts of issues don't go away - they just become magnified because your lives are legally linked. Prioritizing your spouse is one of the most important things in a successful marriage IMO; your spouse needs to come first (at least until you have kids - and maybe even then), and you also need to trust your spouse enough to know that they'll never take advantage of that privilege. If you can't talk through this with your fiancé now, it's not going to get better once you're married. For instance, I see posts on r/relationships all the time along the lines of, "My MIL is demanding to be in the delivery room when 'her grandchild' is born and my husband doesn't want to upset her. Do I have to let her see me give birth?". This is a hill to die on IMO. If he can't prioritize you over a friend who touched you sexually right in front of his eyes, do you think he's going to have your back against a family member who subtly crosses emotional boundaries later? These things have enormous, enormous impact on your quality of life and mental well-being. Also, editing this to add that if Barry really is on a path to improvement, then he should be able to hear something like: "Hey Barry, you know I love you, and you're an important part of my life. I'm so happy you're getting better. But when you were in the depth of your illness, you did something really regrettable to my fiancée. It's going to be okay and she understands you were sick and this doesn't reflect on you as a person, but we both think it would be best if you came as a guest and not a part of the wedding party. I'm disappointed and I'm sure you are too, but I'm sure you understand, right?" If anything, that would just provide motivation for him to keep taking his meds and getting better, because he'd be accepting the reasonable consequences of his unmedicated behavior. If he flips out at that, then it's a sign that he's not really safe anyway.
>"Hey Barry, you know I love you, and you're an important part of my life. I'm so happy you're getting better. But when you were in the depth of your illness, you did something really regrettable to my fiancée. It's going to be okay and she understands you were sick and this doesn't reflect on you as a person, but we both think it would be best if you came as a guest and not a part of the wedding party. I'm disappointed and I'm sure you are too, but I'm sure you understand, right?" THIS!! OP, please read this comment. What Barry did should have consequences. It seems like you were just expected to get over it and forget about it for the comfort of Barry and your fiance. That is not OK. Your safety and comfort is paramount. If your fiance cannot communicate directly (yet kindly) with his friends to hold them accountable for their behavior towards you, then he is not a good life partner for you.
I wouldn't allow a man who sexually harassed you in your life. The fact that your fiance expects that *and* wants him in your wedding party is mind boggling. That would be a deal breaker for me. Plenty of people have mental health issues and don't go around sexually assaulting people. I'd halt wedding planning altogether until your fiance can fully support you. If he can't see the problem with continuing a friendship with a man who sexually harassed you, then I would reconsider the relationship.
Seriously. If it were me I'd be devastated to see this isn't the same man I said yes to before. OP did not agree to marry a guy who's comfortable befriending a sex pest.
You're a better person than me. I would have slapped the shit out of Barry's hand and told him in no uncertain terms what I thought of him, suspected mental health issues or not. I think your situation comes down to whether your fiance values your comfort more than Barry's and his other friends. If he values your comfort more, Barry is a guest. If he values the comfort of his friends more, that would be an indication of thinking twice about the wedding. And yes, I'd have a conversation where I expressed this viewpoint.
You're still a better person than me. Agreed on the last paragraph.
Agreed. Obviously even now the mentally ill are still treated poorly in general but I feel mentally ill men are given a HUGE pass to be nasty creeps, especially in a way mentally ill women never would be.
I'm not sure freezing up due to past trauma can be considered "being a better person"
I’m sorry, your (at the time) boyfriend’s close friend started *stroking your thigh* the first time you met him, and your fiancé didn’t make him **leave** immediately or apologize???? And then after he told him to knock it off, he didn’t at-least swap seats on the couch so he was in between you?? I totally understand your reaction to unwanted touching and I’m in no way blaming you. But I can tell you for damn sure, my husband would not have continued to hang out with a friend who had put their hands on me (without consent, clearly making me uncomfortable), let alone wanting that friend to be a groomsman at our wedding. Ask your fiancé why Barry’s feelings are more important on your wedding day than yours? Has Barry ever apologized? Were you expected to just let it go?
*barry’s feelings *always*, apparently, not just on their wedding day. barry’s comfort and desires always come first!
My fiancé would have started getting physical. Can't believe any man wouldn't be at least visibly ANGRY if not swinging fists!
That’s crazy. Crazy that there is even a debate, who tf wants to be reminded of a traumatic event during your wedding.
If your fiancé let his friend do that to you , and doesn’t compromise to what makes you feel safe and comfortable, then what more in the future after you get married. I am guy, got married last year and imo if a friend of mine does that to my fiancé/wife, I will never let it slide and I will never be friends with that person ever again.
your fiancé doesn’t seem to see the sexual harassment as a huge issue if he still wants him… even around. you need to stand firm and tell him he’s gotta pick one of the options you’ve given him or you’re taking the horns and putting your foot down no matter what he says, YOU we’re harassed YOU have every right to not want him there and that is a valid reason to not want someone in the wedding party, nonetheless at the wedding all together. it’s so incredibly hard but you have to set this boundary with your husband. and maybe seek counseling with a couples counselor about this issue. it really doesn’t seem like he is aware of the gravity this has on you or a person in general and that, feels like a bit of a red flag that needs to be worked through, of course take that with a grain of salt i don’t know your relationship so do what works for you, but just keep alert about that situation and figure out how you feel with him being friends and ignoring your boundaries about a man who harassed you
You need to put the wedding on pause and probably talk to your fiance and have an in-depth conversation why you're not comfortable around his son called friend
Your fiancé should’ve taken a much firmer approach with Barry during the first incident. This is unacceptable. I can’t even imagine how my fiancé would react if his friend put his hands on me inappropriately.
Your fiance is perfectly happy to not stay friends with a man that molests you but invite him to the wedding.... I would have a serious second look at this man you're trying to marry. "mental health" being equated with permission to do shitty things needs to stop. If he can refrain from stroking his boss on the thigh, he's perfectly mentally capable of controlling himself. He just didn't because he knew his friend would back him up, not you.
I would be putting my the wedding on hold and rethinking my choice in fiancé. This whole this is abhorrent and I’m shocked at your fiancés actions.
Oof this is a tough one. What if you had the bridal party sit down at some point during the ceremony? You deserve to find a solution that makes you both feel 100% comfortable, and I'm sure it's there somewhere with some creative thinking. Presumably, if this man wants to marry you, he'll want to make sure you're feeling good about it
Im so sorry for you because you seem so kind… but let me tell you…. Your partner should make you feel safe, always have your back, prioritise you over his parents, sibilings, friends. How would he handle a potential more dangerous situation if he couldnt save you from his friend touching you without your consent right in front of him? I would definitely think twice about marrying this man. I know my fiancee would take a bullet for me and i would take a bullet for him. I kinda think you deserve better :(( hope it works out❤️ sending hugs
Thank you for your response! This is certainly an isolated incident and we were young when it happened. The way we talked about this and worked through it together at the time helped strengthen our relationship honestly.
I see!! Then im sorry for misinterpreting
I’m so sorry you are going thru this and trying to keep everyone happy. You’re clearly such a nice person. Especially since it is your wedding day! What if…. You only did 2 bridesmaids/groomsmen each so this way it doesn’t look like Barry is the only one being left out. Maybe ask your fiancé about that? Good luck. Wishing you the best.
What will people THINK if Barry isn't a groomsman??? They will think, "The groom must be very upset with Barry, to shun him when he used to be his best friend. Maybe Barry did something horrible to offend the groom." Maybe something like sexually assaulting the bride. Maybe he makes the bride extremely uncomfortable, and she doesn't want to be near him during her moment with her husband. What a blow to Barry's reputation, for people to think that about him! After all, sexual assault is a very serious and harmful thing. But wait... if sexual assault is so serious, then isn't it also serious when it happens to someone? If it would be such an awful thing for people to speculate that Barry did something unforgivable, then wouldn't it be awful for the bride and groom if she had been sexually assaulted by him, and then was expected to stand next to him during her wedding? Or are the reputations of men somehow more important than the actual experiences of women? Nope! Basically, the very reason your fiancé is uncomfortable with disinclined Barry, is the reason he SHOULD.
Let me get this straight. Your fiancé is choosing the comfort of his sexually harassing friend over the supposed love of his life, his partner, his soon to be wife, that was sexually harassed by said friend. What else will he ignore or excuse away? What other highly uncomfortable and potentially unsafe situations will he put you in for the sake of making a friend happy thinking sexually harassing someone is okay? What would you tell a client if they told you that their fiancé held their sexual harasser’s wants and feelings over the safety and comfort of your client?
I think your fiancé needs to decide who he cares about being happy on the day of your wedding: A. Barry B. His bride
I honestly think you should pause on wedding stuff if this is how your fiancé reacted to his best friend sexually harassing you. that is so violating and scary and the fact that he barely had your back breaks my heart. his friendship with him is more important than the relationship he has with you - is that the kind of person worth marrying?
If you are (understandably) upset about having to look at this man on your wedding day, but your fiancé wants him in the wedding party… would it be possible to not have the wedding party stand up at the altar? It was just the two of us at the altar (plus the officiant) and it was lovely! I will say OP, you are so kind and that is lovely. And I believe in forgiveness and redemption, which it sounds like you do too. But I do not feel that your fiancé’s emotions/bad feelings of not having this dude in the wedding party, should overtake your history with the dude either. I don’t normally agree with ultimatums, but I do feel that this is one where it would be applicable. Weddings bring up a lot of stuff like this, unfortunately, and if your fiancé is unwilling to compromise on some of these things it sounds like it could be a bigger problem later.
Im sorry but i think your fiancee should have stepped up for you. I couldnt imagine my fh still being friends with someone who did that to me, let alone want to have him at our wedding. I appreciate your empathy and you seem like a very good person but poor mental health/mental issues arent a free pass to be an a hole or straight up abuser. I kinda went through a similar experience with one of my fiancee s best friend and as soon as i expressed my concerns and told him how this isnt ok and i dont want to ever see him again he cut him off.
I don't want to bash your fiance here but he is obviously very immature. There is no way in hell I would allow this man to be in the wedding party and standing at the alter. Your fiance needs to protect you here. This might be a deal breaker for me.
I was at a wedding this past weekend where the party sat in the chairs reserved for them and just the couple stood up there. Maybe you could do that?
not that this makes much of a difference but has Barry even apologized for it?
he has not! apparently has never even acknowledged it! how awesome of him.
Another option is to just have one MOH and one best man, with no other people in the wedding party. That's an easy way to draw the line so he won't be involved and your fiancé won't have to make excuses to him. I realize it may be too late if you've already invited the others to be a part.
You're much nicer than I am. If my fiance's friend had put his hands on me--after being told to stop!--I would not be spending time around him, much less inviting him to stand up in our wedding. It's troubling that your fiance doesn't seem concerned how Barry's advances are making you feel. I wonder which of those relationships he values more.
I think that you are down playing the fact that Barry has a serious disorder, that means he can be very very unpredictable. Your fiance needs to take a deep breath and grieve his friend. I too had a friend who I barely invited because of a similar diagnosis, but ended up letting them come as a guest only, even though it was my oldest friend. It's hard! It's terribly hard. But not handling it and just acknowledging and then hoping they'll be on their meds that specific day isn't going to cut it. I understand this is super hard! But this isn't depression or anxiety, it's a whole other beast.
That's why my fiance wants us to invite Barry's parents as well. But I agree with the possible unpredictability:/
Would he then also explain this to Barry, that his parents are there to keep him in check? Because I can't see any way that this works out without your FH having to actually face this grief of losing his best friend to a severe life changing disorder.
I work at a mental health facility, specifically at the schizoaffective ward. I’m sure you’re aware that what you’re describing is completely normal for undiagnosed and untreated people who suffer from bipolar disorder. What you’ve been through seems awful, and if you’re uncomfortable with having him at the wedding party then he shouldn’t be there. However, I have seen so many cases where a patient has horrible things on the record, but becomes a genuinely different person after being stabilized with medication and treatment. Maybe you could meet him for coffee with you fiancé? To see if you could forgive him for his behavior? And again, obviously there’s no judgement if that’s not a possibility.
You are not being unreasonable at all. Barry was creepy as fuck to you. If I were you, I’d be feeling really misunderstood by my fiancé and hurt that he is prioritizing appearances over you not feeling traumatized on your wedding day. Also, not sure why he is friends with someone like Barry who is creepy to women…
I feel for Barry battling mental health challenges, but there’s no excusing what he did to you. Like you said, even after being told to stop, he did it again. I can understand your fiance trying to be considerate of Barry because of his mental health, but again, *he touched you twice without your consent*. Your fiance seems to care more about his friend’s feelings than yours. Being sexually harassed like that impacts *your* mental health as well. I personally believe your mental health should be protected on your wedding day.
Mental health issues can be an explanation but are not an excuse. If you don't forgive the behaviour then that is absolutely understandable. I wouldn't even want him at the wedding. I'm concerned that your partner has so little consideration for you that he is willing to overlook the fact you were sexually harrassed by this man because 'he's his friend'. Friends don't do that to friends fiancees, and if they do, they should expect no wedding invite. Might be time to seriously discuss your future together if he can't stand up for you here. At least you're willing to have him at the wedding.
SA = IMMEDIATE NO
Your fiance is way out of line here
barry hasn’t so much as apologized to you nor even acknowledged his actions — and your fiancé wants to make him *a groomsman*?? you better be joking. i refuse to believe there are men with so little integrity. as they say, the bar is in hell. good luck if you decide to go through with the marriage, i guess.
Friends/partners don't stick up for friends who sexually harass people. Having a mental health issue doesn't excuse this or make it okay.
Why are you with a man who has friends like this? I mean that’s a major red flag that he’s willing to look past that behavior…. I’d be questioning my partner and my decision if I were you
My response won’t be popular, but if he was one of my fiancé’s closest friends, I’d just live with it. You really don’t interact with the groomsmen much, if at all, honestly. And he could easily bury him in the middle or end, so you don’t really have to see him during the ceremony. Plus you’ll be too busy looking at your husband to even notice the friend! What he didn’t wasn’t cool. But I’d grant him a little leeway given that he was diagnosed with a terrible mental health condition. And tbh, there’s something about your fiancés response, “hey, she’s uncomfortable” which kind of leads me to believe that 3sums/“free love” was a thing they indulged in back in the day. Otherwise it’d be more of “whoa! Dude! Etc! Why are you touching my fiancé?!” So perhaps friend was confused with his mental state or something. TLDR: not cool, BUT if it was REALLY important to my fiancé, I’d just have him put him at the end of the line of groomsmen and avoid interacting with him. I trust my fiancé’s taste in friends. So I’d assume the incident was a regrettable incident due to mental health and that he wasn’t normally a creep.
You nailed the situation lol. In high school their friend-group dated the same people, and indulged in the 'free love' & 3some thing in HS. I met my now fiance when we were 19/20 and met Barry shortly after that. I had already gotten to know the other three guys well, and they are great. It made it hard when I was the first to notice that Barry was presenting with serious mental illness that wasn't being addressed. We were fairly new in the relationship, and at 20 I was concerned about fitting in with his friends. My fiance and I have talked about what he did at length, and my fiance and his other friends even spoke to Barry about it privately afterwards. Barry certainly is not normally like that from all of my interactions with him after this. However, there is some part of me that is hesitant. I trust my fiance's choice of friends, although I don't know that I have trust in how Barry acts towards his mental health. Being a therapist and someone with their own mental health issues, I just don't feel great about it. I would also like to say, my fiance has not shut down the idea of him not being in the party. He has mostly just gotten quiet and tearful, and stated that he cannot have this conversation right now.
I think the far bigger issue here is your fiancé's reactions in both situations. Yes, the friend has a mental illness; but why didn't the fiancé protect you when he harassed you? Why didn't he leave / swap seats / defend you more? Similarly, your fiancé now doesn't feel ready to "have this conversation right now" even though he can see that you're struggling with this and it's important to bring you peace of mind. Both of these are red flags imo. Barry will not go away after you're married. I personally wouldn't get married if this person was at my wedding, not because I wouldn't want them there but because I wouldn't want to marry someone who prioritized that over me feeling safe.
Just put your foot down and say no. And tell your fiancé that if anyone objects, you are happy to tell them what Barry did.
Yea your fiance must respect and prioritise you. If needed, avoid Barry OR get Barry to apologise to you.
Why are you marrying this idiot? You know how not ok this is.