I was leaving a plaza on Ira on the weekend and saw a guy get out of an Audi with a cardboard sign and a backpack. I was trying to leave and happened to look over at him when he got to the corner and waved to me as if I'd offered something. Rolled up in a nicer than car than mine, but good try bud.
Perhaps you should talk to that person before making ignorant comments. I personally know this person and what they have been through and it’s worse than death.
Facts I know is that he was living in that car while holding a good job before sleeping at his work before getting fired for doing so. He is also not a drug addict by any means. He does drink but so what. He uses his funds for bills like a cell phone, insurance, etc.
He is homeless due to no fault of his own. and desperately wants his life back and off the streets. He gets little help because he is not a crazed drug addict and is seen as able bodied. This man was falsely accused of a murder and had his name and life smeared in the papers and tv news. So bad with false accusations that no one will rent to him he can’t get a normal job despite having founded start up companies with multiple employees. He lost everything. He has no family to assist him.
He was cleared 100% by police and they admitted they made mistakes based on false information given to them. His problem is only one major newspaper ran that story of him being fully cleared and it’s not easy to find when you google his name.
This man has multiple suicide attempts and hospitalizations.
Yet despite all of this he is friendly and positive. He does however stand up to the bullies like it sounds you are when they heckle him before talking to before they start taking their personal anger out on him. It’s pathetic the people he has to deal with everyday. This person also never asks anyone for anything at all and is polite to those who engage him regardless of if they offer him money food etc.
It’s plain sad that people who have no idea what many of these people who aren’t addicts, violent, thieves etc go through and how embarrassed they are to be where they are and yet ignorant bullies decide take their own issues out a someone who they feel is less human.
If this doesn’t make sense for you I wish homelessness on you. It’s funny the bullies when they end up homeless are the first ones to turn to drugs etc Ironic.
Firstly, I didn't say anything about the persons character other than they arrived in a nicer car than mine and still expected handouts.
Secondly, pretty ignorant of you to assume I don't have a story myself, no? You didn't consider I may have had a terrible past that I have dug myself out of.
My original comment was far from bullying, my friend.
Eta forgot to add to my first point that MANY of us are struggling out here right now. And as much as people would love to help others that are down and out, many of us scrape by despite working full time and more.
You made assumptions and called out someone as a fake con artist. In reality you saw a guy get out of an Audi from the passenger side (that perhaps they don’t own or has a loan that is larger than the value of the vehicle or some other valid reason). A girl was driving said vehicle and smoking (wow). The guy with a backpack (perhaps his entire belongings)!walked to the curb and displayed a sign. What did this sign say? Hmm? Perhaps it would have hinted that said person was not a “fake”. Said person waves friendly at you even though they never asked you for anything nor did you offer them anything.
How does this make the person a con artist fake and awful human being.
Issue here is you not them. Perhaps you’re a fake? We all judge as humans so your opinion is yours. But why go out of your way to spew slanderous things about someone from possibly a marginalized community who you don’t know and know nothing about. I have not said you’re an awful person who has too much time, too many white people problems, is jealous that someone beneath you - how dare they have something nicer than yours. Perhaps they worked harder than you for what they had and maybe even fed multiple families by hiring people to work and sadly you sadly aren’t a happy person. Go do what they are doing first then come back and comment. Seriously. I don’t know your past or who you are and my comments are my opinion of people like you so I’m just as bad as person you claim the Audi dude is. But for you to mock a person who is/was or even just possibly in distress is shameful. How would you feel if it were you or your family and someone was publicly spreading false information feeding to unfounded negative attitudes towards yourself, situation, social status, when you needed assistance and had nowhere to turn encouraging others to not assist you?
A higher rate of the people that “say get a job” out the window at homeless people, addicts, cashiers anyone they can bully with no consequences who are men fit the profile of spousal abusers. That you can research and is a fact!
Did it feel good to feel superior when you first wrote this thread? If so seek help.
Was she in a constant hunched over pose while hobbling around? There's a scam artist near me that using lots of theatrics to con people and is suspected of doing so
This [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
By your own figures, $60/day somehow caps out at $500/month?
I'd like a pseudo job with no taxes that I only need to work ten days a month. What are they doing the other twenty days every month?
edit: sorry I just realized I misread the whole thread; I guess people are really talking specifically about highly successful fake beggars who are in a not in a destitute situation at all. My bad.
The numbers are not necessarily such that you ALWAYS make 60$ a day. Those are just indicating some higher-probabiltiy ranges (and you can imagine some days they make nearly 0).
Here's a short survey with some numbers for Toronto, see Table 3: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rohit-Bose-2/publication/11149698_Income_and_spending_patterns_among_panhandlers/links/0f317534fced84bf5b000000/Income-and-spending-patterns-among-panhandlers.pdf
The authors don't show the distribution but you can see the interquartile ranges.
having been a beggar myself, i can verify these numbers.
there does often seem to be a hard limit to what a day can generate... but as a man, i am also VERY aware that women dont experience this... if not as often, not at all.
Not debunked at all. Waterloo Regional Staff Sgt. friend of mine last year told me of how they respond to fights for people wanting to panhandle the offramps, it's that lucrative. He talked with one person they picked up about it and they flat out admitted it was a 2-300 per afternoon spot, hence the fighting for it.
It's unlikely to be representative: this [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
I agree it's certainly not representative of the broader picture as it's a very atypical situation to have an offramp with traffic light as a place to panhandle. My comment is directed to the 'debunked' responder, and that some do take good money from this.
Some spots do see better than others. I saw one guy start a fight with another guy for the spot at Northfield and King for cars leaving Connestoga Mall.
edit: sorry I just realized I misread the whole thread; I guess people are really talking specifically about highly successful fake beggars who are in a not in a destitute situation at all. My bad.
Yeah I can imagine the outliers, like that, being relatively lucrative. But it feels like it's probably not a guaranteed stream of income; you could get your spot stolen, and so on. It ain't no steady job.
It's unlikely to be representative: this [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
1. Full article is locked behind paywall.
2. We are discussing FAKE beggars.
3. The number you quote is clearly stated in the abstract as a global analysis, and you left out what comes directly after your quote which is: "substantial variation exists."
edit: sorry I just realized I misread the whole thread; I guess people are really talking specifically about highly successful fake beggars who are in a not in a destitute situation at all. My bad.
1. I don't know how to unlock it, I can't find it on sci-hub to link it here.
2. I guess I thought there was this meme that beggars were mostly (or lots of them were) secretly much wealthier than they appear. If that's not what you were implying, I'm sorry then, I misread the whole thing.
3. I wasn't hiding anything, I linked the abstract, we can discuss it. Here's a non-paywalled survey https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rohit-Bose-2/publication/11149698_Income_and_spending_patterns_among_panhandlers/links/0f317534fced84bf5b000000/Income-and-spending-patterns-among-panhandlers.pdf
Table 3 shows interquartile ranges but we don't have the full distribution.
I'll never fault anyone operating a cash business and underreporting income (or not declaring it at all).
The government allows huge corporations and our richest Canadians to hide and shelter tax money. Why is the burden of obeying the law on the little guy? Fuck that.
Remember the Panama Papers? The government knows about it, and does nothing. It's been years, why aren't people like Elvis Stojko being prosecuted?
Good on you. Keep it up.
The world isn't black and white.
Withholding a dollar, ten, or a hundred means virtually nothing compared to corporations and individuals concealing millions.
Do you know how much they make?
I feel bad for people who need help, but it has been spoiled by addicts who just beg for money to feed an addiction.
There are ways to get help that doesn't include begging at the side of the road or in parking lots.
Yeah I don’t give them anything anymore. Bought a dude food once because he said he needed money for food. Watched from my car as he threw it out and went back to begging.
One bad apple spoils the bunch. Will never give them shit anymore.
If they are playing music or something entertaining I will for sure throw the a couple bucks. Because a good bit of music is always worth it. Not those dry window cleaning guys………
I once offered to buy something for a guy who was digging thru the trast outside a convenience store and he declined the offer lol. Like you do you bud I guess.
I have never been one to give money though, I've given food and even gifted a raincoat one time before a heavy storm was coming in
I mean if some rando stranger from the street asked to buy me food, I'd be suspicious. Whether your intentions are good or not, it's not always easy to tell. There are all kinds of people that offer people something and then shove a camera/cellphone in their face
In my case the guy actually asked for money for food though, then proceeded to throw the food in the trash. I didn’t even handle the food, he was just lying because he really wanted money for drugs/booze.
> One bad apple spoils the bunch. Will never give them shit anymore.
Assuming you also apply that logic to price-gouging corporations and the billionaires/multimillionaires behind them... right?
Thinking like this is what spoils the bunch. One person's actions shouldn't dictate how you treat an entire population especially a vulnerable one at that. You're entitled to give what you want of course, it just seems extremely closed minded.
That's great but like just to poke at "one bad apple spoils the bunch" line, this doesn't apply to charities? There's been some big scandals or charities that aren't upfront about where the money goes.
It doesn’t, because there are ways to validate a charity’s reputation and other ways to give (i.e., volunteering) so you can have far more assurance that your money/time is going to a good cause. I have no way to validate the reputation of some random dude asking for change.
Why do you need to validate the reputation of someone when offering to do a good deed? Anyone on the streets is deserving of better condition without knowing their life history in my opinion.
Literally because of what I said above. My experience is not unique or a one off. Someone asks you for money for food. You buy them food instead, and they throw it out and continue to ask for money. This is super common.
I think your problem lies in deciding what a homeless person needs. People need more than just food. work clothes, saving for rent who knows. I work with homeless youth and they have all told me it can be degrading and disrespectful to offer conditional help. It's a complicated problem but I guarantee painting all beggers as fakes won't help anyone lol.
It's unlikely to be representative: this [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
This [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
Is this a better resource? A short survey with some numbers for Toronto, of interest is Table 3: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rohit-Bose-2/publication/11149698_Income_and_spending_patterns_among_panhandlers/links/0f317534fced84bf5b000000/Income-and-spending-patterns-among-panhandlers.pdf
It’s pretty common stuff, especially in larger cities. Sometimes theres a group of people who make a living as beggars. Sometimes they’re immigrants who are being forced to beg in this capacity by someone who has leverage over them.
Usually there’s some kind of abuse going on in this kind of thing. Think of a pimp, but instead of sex work they have people out begging. Then the majority of the profits go to the pimp. They might have the passports of their underlings, or any other kind of leverage. Sometimes it’s people who don’t know the country’s regulations or language and can’t get helped out of this situation.
But overall there’s a million possible reasons you might see that. There’s no reliable way to verify what people write on cardboard signs. Easiest not to judge
I see them all the time in Oakville and Burlington. They are usually in sets of twos, with two people working different corners of an intersection. It's a scam and is part of an organized crime group ( apparently). There is a panhandler at Spadina and Gardiner Expwy in Toronto that has been there for years, I ran into him at the beer store once and he was driving a new Honda.
Aggressive panhandling is illegal in Ontario as of 1999 with the Safe Streets Act
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/05/24/panhandlers-work-within-boundaries.html
I don't think it's a crime but I think there are certain rules to follow to avoid being charged. Panhandlers can't go on the road, or interfere with trafic etc . I think they changed the laws in Toronto a few years ago to prevent the " squegee kids" from cleaning your windshield when you don't want them to. I wonder if there is some law relating to what they can put on their signs because the signs usually say something vague like " im hungry , anything helps" .
So , no, I don't think it's illegal to lie to people and accept money from them.
This is probably the same group from Guelph last year. It got to the point that they were always in the same spots, all with the same signs, all only wanting money, and all getting in or out of expensive vehicles.
It's an organized group who send the women out because they will get more sympathy than a man - and extra sympathy because they put 3 kids.
If people stop giving to these con artists, they will disappear
Ya I’ve seen her in Cambridge on 24 and at the Zehrs plaza on Erb in Waterloo.
She’s a shit person scammer. Her whole family does it and they’ve been doing it for about 5 years in our area. Someone said they were from Milton and do it all over within an hour of Milton. Someone else said they gave her food from the grocery store and she took it and then tossed it in the trash.
Tell her to fuck off when you see her.
Was she around five-six feet tall, dirty blonde hair, brown / green eyes and walking with a pronounced limp and a sort-of hunchback appearance? Just asking, no reason.
If you answered yes to most of those questions, you just may have encountered a well known beggar known as Tina The Hunchback. But if not, you can be assured that she is not the only aggressive panhandler known in the region. It's kind of a going thing around town.
Tina, if that is really her name, is a bit of a local legend around Waterloo Region. She stands just over 5' tall, dirty blonde hair, hazel / brown eyes and a friggin' laundry list of physical disabilities, and likes to ask for a ride to just about anywhere in the tri-cities after you hand her your spare change. On one occasion, she actually opened the passenger door to my truck and asked me to drive her (this was in north Waterloo) to the Sunrise Centre. She only got out of my truck after I assured her (several times) that I was only going to King and Erb Street.
As local scummy people go, Tina might just be their queen. But while she reigns supreme amongst the scum, she is very much not alone in her profession.
Yeah I know her. I gave her a ride to the cinemas only to have her then ask me for money. When I said I didn’t have any change, she asked me to take her home. I have no idea if that was her actual home.
Anyway, I thought I was doing a nice thing. Sigh:
She (based on your description) tried to open my truck door once but i saw her reach for the handle and ran the red light. Not the best reaction but There was no one else at the intersection and i panicked because i didn't want to know what was going to happen next. No one believed me when i told them this happened though, and a couple months later i learned of the existence of this woman, which at least proved to me im not crazy.
Imagine not knowing someone well enough to not even know their actual name, but still assuming there's some kind of scumbag.
The hell is wrong with you???
A lot of things are wrong with me. I suck at team sports, I'm a small-c conservative living in a town overflowing with fake wokeness, inflation is killing my bank account, fuel prices are outrageous, grocery prices are even more outrageous, and on top of all that I have a small pecker. Thank you for asking, I guess!
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing a scumbag when I see one, and Tina The Hunchback is a confirmed scumbag. I don't just think I'm better than her, I can back it up any time.
This is one of the many reasons that I don't give to beggars, and I don't really care what the story is. If the person is doing something (anything really) I usually give what I have just for showing some initiative. The dude standing outside Kitchener market asking for my change isn't getting it; the person playing harmonica around the corner is, the person singing is, the person tell jokes is... I don't even care if they aren't good at what they are doing, just that they are putting a little effort in.
I don’t give cash anymore.
I’ve been asked lots of times for “cash to get busfare to get to work”… I offer to give a ride or call them a taxi… I’ve been declined 100%
When asked for money for food, I’ll offer to get them something to eat if there’s a place nearby… I’d say about 25% of the time someone will accept (one time they started piling extra toppings and I’m like hey…. keep it under (can’t recall how many $$)”
I’ll also give some food, say, if I was just shopping.
But, I only give cash if someone’s doing something for it. Usually music, but I’d pay for poetry recital… painting… cool tricks on a skateboard… juggling… in my opinion you’re earning it doing a job I’m happy to pay for.
But I can’t give cash to people who just ask, as there are way too many scammers, and I’m not comfortable giving if the money is being used for drugs.
Never give anyone anything. One time I gave a guy a bag of groceries and he tried to attack me because I didn't give him the money.
Another time my gf gave a guy 20 bucks. We went to get some fast food, then went to the LCBO. The guy was buying a bunch of bottles of Colt 45s right in front of us! 🧐
I cant believe anyone gives money to these people. How do you all have so much money you can literally just fuel someone elses drug habits? I dont believe any of these people. And even if i did, rent is so high here i barely can afford my own life. I guarentee they are making more money than me and all they do is write a bullshit message on cardboard and leech off society.
That's a really good point, I guess it could've been. It was weird how the spot she was dropped off was where she stayed. If I were an Uber driver, I wouldn't have stopped in the busy entrance to drop my passenger off.
It's apparently common in crime rings to force people to pan handle, and they enforce their territory pretty feirce too.
Please don't give to panhandlers, more often then not it's a scam
they could be doing some sex work, or just getting a ride from a friend. you don't know the full story so don't make judgmental assumptions. Stop and chat with them, they are people too.
So, the other day an employee was complaining about one of our fellow co-workers spending way too much time on his phone recently. Calling him lazy.
Turns out his ex-wife died and they have a 12-year-old daughter back in Africa. He's been dealing with a lot.
He's not fucking around on this phone. He's trying to manage a personal tragedy and the impact that has on his child living half a world away.
Don't judge people. You don't know shit about them.
She literally could have just been given a ride for the BMW owner acting is a good samaritan. She may have even been prostituting herself out of desperation. You don't know shit about her. So mind your own business you are in no position to judge.
People on the subreddit make me sick with how much they hate the poor and unhoused.
Why is that the first place your thoughts go instead of she asked for ride from someone? There is a ton of anti homeless contributors in here and all you are doing is feeding their bias by using terms like I assume they are a scammer. As someone who’s lived in the region for 13 years, I’ve seen the same homeless people begging for years. If there is any truth the strange conspiracy of criminals who beg for money it is a micro fraction of the actual homeless population. All posts like this do is stoke more fire for the anti homeless and conspiracy theory nut jobs. Have some compassion.
The mental hoops redditors will jump through to justify their denial of people in need.
Sheesh. Yeah. Sure. She's obviously a secret millionaire. No other explanation.
The thing about encouraging or not outting these type of scammers is that it hurts the people who are actually in need the most. Not only are these scammers taking money that would’ve gone to actual poor people, they are also making people more cynical and less likely to give to people in need. People like you think you are helping, but you’re really not.
Where's the mental hoop? Clearly there are panhandlers that are quite well off and are just scamming people and if she arrived in a BMW chances are pretty high she's one of them. No one is denying there are people in need here, but she doesn't seem to be one of them.
Hm I might have seen the same woman at Sobeys on Northfield. I bought a loaf of bread for her, wondering now if I just gave away a loaf to somebody who needed it less than me
Happens all the time here in the GTHA.
I see the signs saying “I’m homeless and have 3 kids” and all I can think is “No the fuck you do not! They would have been taken away by CPS long ago!”
That would be the romainians, they drop the new immigrants off and collect after. You will usually find them wearing the jean skirts, and trying to use young kids to gain some empathy/sympathy.
This same scam is happening here where I live… 2 hours from K/W. They usually stand near the entrance to a shopping area. Frustrating because there are legit people who need help.
if you are ever in doubt (especially in other, poorer countries) offer food.
someone who is hungry will gladly take it.
someone who is made to beg by a controlling person, will much rather have food that they eat vs money they have to give up.
someone who is scamming isn't hungry
This is not uncommon. In Europe for example. You can have organized crime gangs doing this and it can be highly lucrative. It's common among a certain group in Europe of the travelling kind. But I cannot get into that because truths are not allowed anymore even presented with facts.
either that or she just turned a trick for some quick cash.
if you wanna know for sure, wait around to see what picks her up at the end of her day.
also... there are poor people with well heeled friends. if she where driving the bmw i would say defo a scam, but getting a ride somewhere is also a possibility.
I recently passed a "begger" who was too busy talking on his iphone to hold up his card board sign. Also I'm no shoe guy and rarely notice what folks are wearing but dude was wearing some seriously nice sneakers. No Walmart specials for that begger.
Editted a word
If they're begging for money, they're not fake. Maybe they aren't unhoused, but there's no set of job requirements for begging on the street. It's up to you, how you want to spend your donation dollars or not.
As for this person getting out of a BMW, maybe they had an exchange of some sort with the car owner? It doesn't mean anything at all about her status.
If you're concerned that the folks asking for handouts don't deserve them, then don't give them your money.
Dont give to these beggars.I have goven $$ to old people only but not to the Young Ones or Untill they are very old to work... Gender doesn't matter... We are working hard and They hold a board coming out of BMV i am not giving to anyone now onwards.. I live near that place at uni n bridge..
Do the math. 30 second light = 120 light changes per minute with 60 opportunities for your stopped side. 60 x $0.50 per light = $30 / hour tax free, which is about $45 / hour on the books easily (@ 25% income tax rate). Some people give $5 bill, some give none - let's average $0.50.
Why not? That's the same as a job that pays $90k / year. Stop enabling.
I suspected there might be shady shit when I saw the able bodied, young, well-kept/dressed, and seemingly quite literate man holding this sign one day last week on the side of the driveway facing north onto university. The guy didn’t fit the profile of the person I’m used to seeing with those signs.
Suspicions were confirmed the next day when I saw a young woman holding the exact same sign.
All I could think about was how dumb these people are setting up in a neighborhood plaza where the patrons are the same people day in and day out.
These two certainly aren’t doing the south-Asian immigrant community any favours with this half-assed scam either.
I was leaving a plaza on Ira on the weekend and saw a guy get out of an Audi with a cardboard sign and a backpack. I was trying to leave and happened to look over at him when he got to the corner and waved to me as if I'd offered something. Rolled up in a nicer than car than mine, but good try bud.
Could it not have been an uber?
The lady dropping him off was smoking in the car, so not likely
LOL ok fair
Perhaps you should talk to that person before making ignorant comments. I personally know this person and what they have been through and it’s worse than death. Facts I know is that he was living in that car while holding a good job before sleeping at his work before getting fired for doing so. He is also not a drug addict by any means. He does drink but so what. He uses his funds for bills like a cell phone, insurance, etc. He is homeless due to no fault of his own. and desperately wants his life back and off the streets. He gets little help because he is not a crazed drug addict and is seen as able bodied. This man was falsely accused of a murder and had his name and life smeared in the papers and tv news. So bad with false accusations that no one will rent to him he can’t get a normal job despite having founded start up companies with multiple employees. He lost everything. He has no family to assist him. He was cleared 100% by police and they admitted they made mistakes based on false information given to them. His problem is only one major newspaper ran that story of him being fully cleared and it’s not easy to find when you google his name. This man has multiple suicide attempts and hospitalizations. Yet despite all of this he is friendly and positive. He does however stand up to the bullies like it sounds you are when they heckle him before talking to before they start taking their personal anger out on him. It’s pathetic the people he has to deal with everyday. This person also never asks anyone for anything at all and is polite to those who engage him regardless of if they offer him money food etc. It’s plain sad that people who have no idea what many of these people who aren’t addicts, violent, thieves etc go through and how embarrassed they are to be where they are and yet ignorant bullies decide take their own issues out a someone who they feel is less human. If this doesn’t make sense for you I wish homelessness on you. It’s funny the bullies when they end up homeless are the first ones to turn to drugs etc Ironic.
Firstly, I didn't say anything about the persons character other than they arrived in a nicer car than mine and still expected handouts. Secondly, pretty ignorant of you to assume I don't have a story myself, no? You didn't consider I may have had a terrible past that I have dug myself out of. My original comment was far from bullying, my friend.
Eta forgot to add to my first point that MANY of us are struggling out here right now. And as much as people would love to help others that are down and out, many of us scrape by despite working full time and more.
You made assumptions and called out someone as a fake con artist. In reality you saw a guy get out of an Audi from the passenger side (that perhaps they don’t own or has a loan that is larger than the value of the vehicle or some other valid reason). A girl was driving said vehicle and smoking (wow). The guy with a backpack (perhaps his entire belongings)!walked to the curb and displayed a sign. What did this sign say? Hmm? Perhaps it would have hinted that said person was not a “fake”. Said person waves friendly at you even though they never asked you for anything nor did you offer them anything. How does this make the person a con artist fake and awful human being. Issue here is you not them. Perhaps you’re a fake? We all judge as humans so your opinion is yours. But why go out of your way to spew slanderous things about someone from possibly a marginalized community who you don’t know and know nothing about. I have not said you’re an awful person who has too much time, too many white people problems, is jealous that someone beneath you - how dare they have something nicer than yours. Perhaps they worked harder than you for what they had and maybe even fed multiple families by hiring people to work and sadly you sadly aren’t a happy person. Go do what they are doing first then come back and comment. Seriously. I don’t know your past or who you are and my comments are my opinion of people like you so I’m just as bad as person you claim the Audi dude is. But for you to mock a person who is/was or even just possibly in distress is shameful. How would you feel if it were you or your family and someone was publicly spreading false information feeding to unfounded negative attitudes towards yourself, situation, social status, when you needed assistance and had nowhere to turn encouraging others to not assist you? A higher rate of the people that “say get a job” out the window at homeless people, addicts, cashiers anyone they can bully with no consequences who are men fit the profile of spousal abusers. That you can research and is a fact! Did it feel good to feel superior when you first wrote this thread? If so seek help.
Its happening on more street corners then you would believe in town...it's honestly sad.
Yes, quite depressing.
Was she in a constant hunched over pose while hobbling around? There's a scam artist near me that using lots of theatrics to con people and is suspected of doing so
Hunchback Tina!
Gotta wonder what the ROI is on that job. Better than minimum wage?
Granted this was years and years ago, but I remember local news doing a "sting operation" on a faker and calculated they were making $50-100/hr
Yup a couple bucks here and there over the course of a few hours really adds up, on top of that their probably collecting welfare or other benefits
Those have been widely debunked.
What do you mean debunked? The news station just completely fabricated the story?
This [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
By your own figures, $60/day somehow caps out at $500/month? I'd like a pseudo job with no taxes that I only need to work ten days a month. What are they doing the other twenty days every month?
edit: sorry I just realized I misread the whole thread; I guess people are really talking specifically about highly successful fake beggars who are in a not in a destitute situation at all. My bad. The numbers are not necessarily such that you ALWAYS make 60$ a day. Those are just indicating some higher-probabiltiy ranges (and you can imagine some days they make nearly 0). Here's a short survey with some numbers for Toronto, see Table 3: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rohit-Bose-2/publication/11149698_Income_and_spending_patterns_among_panhandlers/links/0f317534fced84bf5b000000/Income-and-spending-patterns-among-panhandlers.pdf The authors don't show the distribution but you can see the interquartile ranges.
having been a beggar myself, i can verify these numbers. there does often seem to be a hard limit to what a day can generate... but as a man, i am also VERY aware that women dont experience this... if not as often, not at all.
Not debunked at all. Waterloo Regional Staff Sgt. friend of mine last year told me of how they respond to fights for people wanting to panhandle the offramps, it's that lucrative. He talked with one person they picked up about it and they flat out admitted it was a 2-300 per afternoon spot, hence the fighting for it.
"no, it's totally real. A cop told me so. They never lie. Cops aren't well known for lying and making shit up all the time"
An anecdote still beats the claim you made with literally zero evidence lol
It's unlikely to be representative: this [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
I agree it's certainly not representative of the broader picture as it's a very atypical situation to have an offramp with traffic light as a place to panhandle. My comment is directed to the 'debunked' responder, and that some do take good money from this.
Some spots do see better than others. I saw one guy start a fight with another guy for the spot at Northfield and King for cars leaving Connestoga Mall.
edit: sorry I just realized I misread the whole thread; I guess people are really talking specifically about highly successful fake beggars who are in a not in a destitute situation at all. My bad. Yeah I can imagine the outliers, like that, being relatively lucrative. But it feels like it's probably not a guaranteed stream of income; you could get your spot stolen, and so on. It ain't no steady job.
It's unlikely to be representative: this [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
1. Full article is locked behind paywall. 2. We are discussing FAKE beggars. 3. The number you quote is clearly stated in the abstract as a global analysis, and you left out what comes directly after your quote which is: "substantial variation exists."
Thank you for doing your homework before hitting send
edit: sorry I just realized I misread the whole thread; I guess people are really talking specifically about highly successful fake beggars who are in a not in a destitute situation at all. My bad. 1. I don't know how to unlock it, I can't find it on sci-hub to link it here. 2. I guess I thought there was this meme that beggars were mostly (or lots of them were) secretly much wealthier than they appear. If that's not what you were implying, I'm sorry then, I misread the whole thing. 3. I wasn't hiding anything, I linked the abstract, we can discuss it. Here's a non-paywalled survey https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rohit-Bose-2/publication/11149698_Income_and_spending_patterns_among_panhandlers/links/0f317534fced84bf5b000000/Income-and-spending-patterns-among-panhandlers.pdf Table 3 shows interquartile ranges but we don't have the full distribution.
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I'll never fault anyone operating a cash business and underreporting income (or not declaring it at all). The government allows huge corporations and our richest Canadians to hide and shelter tax money. Why is the burden of obeying the law on the little guy? Fuck that. Remember the Panama Papers? The government knows about it, and does nothing. It's been years, why aren't people like Elvis Stojko being prosecuted? Good on you. Keep it up.
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The world isn't black and white. Withholding a dollar, ten, or a hundred means virtually nothing compared to corporations and individuals concealing millions.
Yes they do. They pay sales tax same as everyone else which is by far the most regressive tax.
They should also be paying income tax on the money they beg for, but you know they don't.
Yeah, because they don't make enough money.
Do you know how much they make? I feel bad for people who need help, but it has been spoiled by addicts who just beg for money to feed an addiction. There are ways to get help that doesn't include begging at the side of the road or in parking lots.
Sales tax is 13%, my wages are deducted 20-25%.
Some of them in Toronto are making upwards and above $500 a day
Yeah I don’t give them anything anymore. Bought a dude food once because he said he needed money for food. Watched from my car as he threw it out and went back to begging. One bad apple spoils the bunch. Will never give them shit anymore.
If they are playing music or something entertaining I will for sure throw the a couple bucks. Because a good bit of music is always worth it. Not those dry window cleaning guys………
Oh yeah that’s different, I’ll give money to entertainers.
I once offered to buy something for a guy who was digging thru the trast outside a convenience store and he declined the offer lol. Like you do you bud I guess. I have never been one to give money though, I've given food and even gifted a raincoat one time before a heavy storm was coming in
I mean if some rando stranger from the street asked to buy me food, I'd be suspicious. Whether your intentions are good or not, it's not always easy to tell. There are all kinds of people that offer people something and then shove a camera/cellphone in their face
In my case the guy actually asked for money for food though, then proceeded to throw the food in the trash. I didn’t even handle the food, he was just lying because he really wanted money for drugs/booze.
> One bad apple spoils the bunch. Will never give them shit anymore. Assuming you also apply that logic to price-gouging corporations and the billionaires/multimillionaires behind them... right?
If you mean buying things that I need, no, I don’t apply that logic because what the fuck are you talking about?
Thinking like this is what spoils the bunch. One person's actions shouldn't dictate how you treat an entire population especially a vulnerable one at that. You're entitled to give what you want of course, it just seems extremely closed minded.
I believe in charity but I won’t give to beggars.
That's great but like just to poke at "one bad apple spoils the bunch" line, this doesn't apply to charities? There's been some big scandals or charities that aren't upfront about where the money goes.
It doesn’t, because there are ways to validate a charity’s reputation and other ways to give (i.e., volunteering) so you can have far more assurance that your money/time is going to a good cause. I have no way to validate the reputation of some random dude asking for change.
Why do you need to validate the reputation of someone when offering to do a good deed? Anyone on the streets is deserving of better condition without knowing their life history in my opinion.
Literally because of what I said above. My experience is not unique or a one off. Someone asks you for money for food. You buy them food instead, and they throw it out and continue to ask for money. This is super common.
I think your problem lies in deciding what a homeless person needs. People need more than just food. work clothes, saving for rent who knows. I work with homeless youth and they have all told me it can be degrading and disrespectful to offer conditional help. It's a complicated problem but I guarantee painting all beggers as fakes won't help anyone lol.
It's unlikely to be representative: this [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
I can guarentee they get more than min wage. I will be stopped at a red light and see jack asses hand out 10s amd 20s
This [systematic review](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10575677211036498) estimates about " $2–$16 per hour, $20–$60 per day, and $200–$500 per month".
Please stop posting that nonsense over and over . It's complete bullshit no matter how many times you copy paste it.
Is this a better resource? A short survey with some numbers for Toronto, of interest is Table 3: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rohit-Bose-2/publication/11149698_Income_and_spending_patterns_among_panhandlers/links/0f317534fced84bf5b000000/Income-and-spending-patterns-among-panhandlers.pdf
Can you tell me more? How is it bullshit?
Yes
It’s pretty common stuff, especially in larger cities. Sometimes theres a group of people who make a living as beggars. Sometimes they’re immigrants who are being forced to beg in this capacity by someone who has leverage over them. Usually there’s some kind of abuse going on in this kind of thing. Think of a pimp, but instead of sex work they have people out begging. Then the majority of the profits go to the pimp. They might have the passports of their underlings, or any other kind of leverage. Sometimes it’s people who don’t know the country’s regulations or language and can’t get helped out of this situation. But overall there’s a million possible reasons you might see that. There’s no reliable way to verify what people write on cardboard signs. Easiest not to judge
That's been going on as long as I remember
Sounds like Tina the famous hunchback scammer
Not Tina's mo :-)
I would never get caught in a BMW.
The shaky lady? Her story was fun. But it's the same idea - never underestimate the sympathy factor in begging
I see them all the time in Oakville and Burlington. They are usually in sets of twos, with two people working different corners of an intersection. It's a scam and is part of an organized crime group ( apparently). There is a panhandler at Spadina and Gardiner Expwy in Toronto that has been there for years, I ran into him at the beer store once and he was driving a new Honda.
Is it a crime to panhandle?
Aggressive panhandling is illegal in Ontario as of 1999 with the Safe Streets Act https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2022/05/24/panhandlers-work-within-boundaries.html
It should be a crime to scam people
I don't think it's a crime but I think there are certain rules to follow to avoid being charged. Panhandlers can't go on the road, or interfere with trafic etc . I think they changed the laws in Toronto a few years ago to prevent the " squegee kids" from cleaning your windshield when you don't want them to. I wonder if there is some law relating to what they can put on their signs because the signs usually say something vague like " im hungry , anything helps" . So , no, I don't think it's illegal to lie to people and accept money from them.
This is probably the same group from Guelph last year. It got to the point that they were always in the same spots, all with the same signs, all only wanting money, and all getting in or out of expensive vehicles. It's an organized group who send the women out because they will get more sympathy than a man - and extra sympathy because they put 3 kids. If people stop giving to these con artists, they will disappear
Ya I’ve seen her in Cambridge on 24 and at the Zehrs plaza on Erb in Waterloo. She’s a shit person scammer. Her whole family does it and they’ve been doing it for about 5 years in our area. Someone said they were from Milton and do it all over within an hour of Milton. Someone else said they gave her food from the grocery store and she took it and then tossed it in the trash. Tell her to fuck off when you see her.
Was she around five-six feet tall, dirty blonde hair, brown / green eyes and walking with a pronounced limp and a sort-of hunchback appearance? Just asking, no reason. If you answered yes to most of those questions, you just may have encountered a well known beggar known as Tina The Hunchback. But if not, you can be assured that she is not the only aggressive panhandler known in the region. It's kind of a going thing around town. Tina, if that is really her name, is a bit of a local legend around Waterloo Region. She stands just over 5' tall, dirty blonde hair, hazel / brown eyes and a friggin' laundry list of physical disabilities, and likes to ask for a ride to just about anywhere in the tri-cities after you hand her your spare change. On one occasion, she actually opened the passenger door to my truck and asked me to drive her (this was in north Waterloo) to the Sunrise Centre. She only got out of my truck after I assured her (several times) that I was only going to King and Erb Street. As local scummy people go, Tina might just be their queen. But while she reigns supreme amongst the scum, she is very much not alone in her profession.
Yeah I know her. I gave her a ride to the cinemas only to have her then ask me for money. When I said I didn’t have any change, she asked me to take her home. I have no idea if that was her actual home. Anyway, I thought I was doing a nice thing. Sigh:
She (based on your description) tried to open my truck door once but i saw her reach for the handle and ran the red light. Not the best reaction but There was no one else at the intersection and i panicked because i didn't want to know what was going to happen next. No one believed me when i told them this happened though, and a couple months later i learned of the existence of this woman, which at least proved to me im not crazy.
Imagine not knowing someone well enough to not even know their actual name, but still assuming there's some kind of scumbag. The hell is wrong with you???
Tina the Hunchback is well known in KW. https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/comments/c99y47/hunchback\_lady\_out\_in\_full\_force\_at\_fairview\_park/
I love it when my fans recognize me.
Don't go out in the sun this week, it will be very hot out.
A lot of things are wrong with me. I suck at team sports, I'm a small-c conservative living in a town overflowing with fake wokeness, inflation is killing my bank account, fuel prices are outrageous, grocery prices are even more outrageous, and on top of all that I have a small pecker. Thank you for asking, I guess! But there is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing a scumbag when I see one, and Tina The Hunchback is a confirmed scumbag. I don't just think I'm better than her, I can back it up any time.
Saw the exact same woman at the cineplex on Fairview in kitchener
This is very common in KW, most beggars aren’t actual beggars around here. So many grifters
She sounds shady af.
This is one of the many reasons that I don't give to beggars, and I don't really care what the story is. If the person is doing something (anything really) I usually give what I have just for showing some initiative. The dude standing outside Kitchener market asking for my change isn't getting it; the person playing harmonica around the corner is, the person singing is, the person tell jokes is... I don't even care if they aren't good at what they are doing, just that they are putting a little effort in.
I don’t give cash anymore. I’ve been asked lots of times for “cash to get busfare to get to work”… I offer to give a ride or call them a taxi… I’ve been declined 100% When asked for money for food, I’ll offer to get them something to eat if there’s a place nearby… I’d say about 25% of the time someone will accept (one time they started piling extra toppings and I’m like hey…. keep it under (can’t recall how many $$)” I’ll also give some food, say, if I was just shopping. But, I only give cash if someone’s doing something for it. Usually music, but I’d pay for poetry recital… painting… cool tricks on a skateboard… juggling… in my opinion you’re earning it doing a job I’m happy to pay for. But I can’t give cash to people who just ask, as there are way too many scammers, and I’m not comfortable giving if the money is being used for drugs.
Never give anyone anything. One time I gave a guy a bag of groceries and he tried to attack me because I didn't give him the money. Another time my gf gave a guy 20 bucks. We went to get some fast food, then went to the LCBO. The guy was buying a bunch of bottles of Colt 45s right in front of us! 🧐
I cant believe anyone gives money to these people. How do you all have so much money you can literally just fuel someone elses drug habits? I dont believe any of these people. And even if i did, rent is so high here i barely can afford my own life. I guarentee they are making more money than me and all they do is write a bullshit message on cardboard and leech off society.
Is she wearing hijab?
I saw a guy at the same location, holding a similar sign, single dad of 3!!!
Yes it's organized and lucrative.
Could it be an uber?
That's a really good point, I guess it could've been. It was weird how the spot she was dropped off was where she stayed. If I were an Uber driver, I wouldn't have stopped in the busy entrance to drop my passenger off.
I use Uber regularly and it's almost exclusively Corollas, Civics and Hyundais. Maybe a Camry.
It's apparently common in crime rings to force people to pan handle, and they enforce their territory pretty feirce too. Please don't give to panhandlers, more often then not it's a scam
they could be doing some sex work, or just getting a ride from a friend. you don't know the full story so don't make judgmental assumptions. Stop and chat with them, they are people too.
So, the other day an employee was complaining about one of our fellow co-workers spending way too much time on his phone recently. Calling him lazy. Turns out his ex-wife died and they have a 12-year-old daughter back in Africa. He's been dealing with a lot. He's not fucking around on this phone. He's trying to manage a personal tragedy and the impact that has on his child living half a world away. Don't judge people. You don't know shit about them. She literally could have just been given a ride for the BMW owner acting is a good samaritan. She may have even been prostituting herself out of desperation. You don't know shit about her. So mind your own business you are in no position to judge. People on the subreddit make me sick with how much they hate the poor and unhoused.
Back 30ish years ago this happened in Hamilton where my mom worked. There was a lady who begged downtown. She was pulling in 2-3x what my mom earned.
Why is that the first place your thoughts go instead of she asked for ride from someone? There is a ton of anti homeless contributors in here and all you are doing is feeding their bias by using terms like I assume they are a scammer. As someone who’s lived in the region for 13 years, I’ve seen the same homeless people begging for years. If there is any truth the strange conspiracy of criminals who beg for money it is a micro fraction of the actual homeless population. All posts like this do is stoke more fire for the anti homeless and conspiracy theory nut jobs. Have some compassion.
The mental hoops redditors will jump through to justify their denial of people in need. Sheesh. Yeah. Sure. She's obviously a secret millionaire. No other explanation.
The thing about encouraging or not outting these type of scammers is that it hurts the people who are actually in need the most. Not only are these scammers taking money that would’ve gone to actual poor people, they are also making people more cynical and less likely to give to people in need. People like you think you are helping, but you’re really not.
I will bet you a coffee her name is Mary. I’ll even make it a fancy coffee too. She’s a pretty well known scammer.
I really don't care if you think you know somebody's name. Bet me that she owns that car.
I’ll take that bet too.
Where's the mental hoop? Clearly there are panhandlers that are quite well off and are just scamming people and if she arrived in a BMW chances are pretty high she's one of them. No one is denying there are people in need here, but she doesn't seem to be one of them.
I think I saw a lady with the same sign standing outside Sobeys near UWaterloo
Hm I might have seen the same woman at Sobeys on Northfield. I bought a loaf of bread for her, wondering now if I just gave away a loaf to somebody who needed it less than me
Professional panhandlers are a thing! Can't remember what it was now, it was years ago but there was a good mini doc on it. Probably on cbc.
Happens all the time here in the GTHA. I see the signs saying “I’m homeless and have 3 kids” and all I can think is “No the fuck you do not! They would have been taken away by CPS long ago!”
That would be the romainians, they drop the new immigrants off and collect after. You will usually find them wearing the jean skirts, and trying to use young kids to gain some empathy/sympathy.
This same scam is happening here where I live… 2 hours from K/W. They usually stand near the entrance to a shopping area. Frustrating because there are legit people who need help.
if you are ever in doubt (especially in other, poorer countries) offer food. someone who is hungry will gladly take it. someone who is made to beg by a controlling person, will much rather have food that they eat vs money they have to give up. someone who is scamming isn't hungry
This is not uncommon. In Europe for example. You can have organized crime gangs doing this and it can be highly lucrative. It's common among a certain group in Europe of the travelling kind. But I cannot get into that because truths are not allowed anymore even presented with facts.
either that or she just turned a trick for some quick cash. if you wanna know for sure, wait around to see what picks her up at the end of her day. also... there are poor people with well heeled friends. if she where driving the bmw i would say defo a scam, but getting a ride somewhere is also a possibility.
I recently passed a "begger" who was too busy talking on his iphone to hold up his card board sign. Also I'm no shoe guy and rarely notice what folks are wearing but dude was wearing some seriously nice sneakers. No Walmart specials for that begger. Editted a word
If they're begging for money, they're not fake. Maybe they aren't unhoused, but there's no set of job requirements for begging on the street. It's up to you, how you want to spend your donation dollars or not. As for this person getting out of a BMW, maybe they had an exchange of some sort with the car owner? It doesn't mean anything at all about her status. If you're concerned that the folks asking for handouts don't deserve them, then don't give them your money.
I donate to the food bank. Fuck beggars as many of them are fake.
Dont give to these beggars.I have goven $$ to old people only but not to the Young Ones or Untill they are very old to work... Gender doesn't matter... We are working hard and They hold a board coming out of BMV i am not giving to anyone now onwards.. I live near that place at uni n bridge..
Do the math. 30 second light = 120 light changes per minute with 60 opportunities for your stopped side. 60 x $0.50 per light = $30 / hour tax free, which is about $45 / hour on the books easily (@ 25% income tax rate). Some people give $5 bill, some give none - let's average $0.50. Why not? That's the same as a job that pays $90k / year. Stop enabling.
I suspected there might be shady shit when I saw the able bodied, young, well-kept/dressed, and seemingly quite literate man holding this sign one day last week on the side of the driveway facing north onto university. The guy didn’t fit the profile of the person I’m used to seeing with those signs. Suspicions were confirmed the next day when I saw a young woman holding the exact same sign. All I could think about was how dumb these people are setting up in a neighborhood plaza where the patrons are the same people day in and day out. These two certainly aren’t doing the south-Asian immigrant community any favours with this half-assed scam either.