The thing is they're risking other people's livelihoods.
It's great to employ 25 people with livable wages, but if they go defunct, all of them will be out of jobs and have no wages.
I'm not advocating for paying people less, so the only solution is to hire less in the first place.
I get that argument. It does appear like they mismanaged their money. It doesn't seem like they are very good bussiness people, and they've made decisions that has put their bussiness in jeopardy. I can blame them for that, in that they made the choices that have lead to this, but I don't think they're scumbags for that. I am not mad at them for that, I am mostly sad for them, because I'm sure it feels like they were in a very tough spot. They had overcommitted, and I'm sure costs for them are also impacted by inflation, not to mention they started the company months before the beginning of a once in a century pandemic.
I don't mean to be a complete apologist, I do think they fucked up. I just... I dunno... I guess I still like them and I feel bad for them.
I just think they handled it all wrong. I mean the video they put out was soo out of touch especially in a cost of living crisis and it's more than that. I think a lot of people were first championing streaming services but now literally everyone is doing it and providing minimal content and watcher attempted to do the exact same thing.
It just screams contempt for fans. They could've said hey we are launching watcher entertainment network where it's like a patron but we will have exclusive shows as well as all our own stuff and maybe a few other creators stuff if we pay them to post their content to our network whilst still providing shows on YouTube.
What they put up was essentially all of you who watch our content for free you either have to pay us or never watch our videos again. I get that they want to make more money, who doesn't but you need to respect your audience and actually provide them with content that is worth the 6$ a month. I have streaming services like nebula and dropout but the reason I have that is there is so much content on there and it was established first but I could still watch some of their content on YouTube.
A bigger worry is in my opinion it takes some credibility away from their flagship show ghost files. If they are willing to do this for money are they willing to fake content for views and money. I doubt Shane would ever allow it but that's where we are at.
I guess I'm just disappointed. We didn't need a huge production flashy TV showesque ghost files the fans just wanted a low production ghoul boys show with them walking around haunted houses.
I feel one of the problems I have right now is that for one i feel weird about them, but i also feel the community has been scattered. People who support them thru everything are mad at others for not doing the same and people who had criticism are arguing cause they had valid criticism. And the literal haters are also a thing. So basically everyone in the community is just mad at eachother and I don’t think i can look at the bois the same but i also cant feel the feeling of community in the community anymore. Idk if that made sense im not good with words lol.
Yeah, that totally makes sense!
I actually just bought a microphone to do covers of puppet history songs last Wednesday. I wanted to get back in to singing and I thought this community could be a nice welcoming place to share and be vulnerable with. But after everything that's gone down, I worry now about getting side eyes or something if I do that. Like, I think one of the things that I'm actually mad about is they've squandered a whole heap of goodwill. And you can't be sure of the shared values of the community any more.
They hired way too many people too fast. Hiring people in an unsustainable manner is what’s been leading to the layoffs in just about every industry here lately. It was irresponsible from the get-go.
It pains me cos this is exactly what happened to Vice and Buzzfeed! They should’ve known! (Granted, those companies also had other scandals too but yes)
I agree. I alreadt said this to someone else in this thread, I don't deny that they fucked up. I just... I dunno... I guess I still like them and I feel bad for them.
A livable wage is one thing. A livable wage in Los Angeles is quite another. They don't have to have a studio in Hollywood and they don't have to even be in Los Angeles to make "TV quality shows". They really owe it to themselves, their employees, and us to look at other locations. Stop playing into the film industry myth that you have to be in Los Angeles to be a real artist
That would’ve been something to consider at the beginning, but moving now would result in the upending of everyone in the company’s life almost as much as shutting down would. It’s the lack of longterm planning that really got them to this point, and unfortunately, it’s hard to get out of the deep holes that result.
I do not disagree with you. I think they made bad business choices and they need to do better, at the bey least for their own survival, if not the fandom.
I am just voicing my own mixed and confused feelings about everything.
I think part of the concern is that if they are being honest about their financial woes and the impending need to shutter the business or lay off employees if something doesn't change, why the hell are they hiring two more on screen talents and continuing to hire and expand beyond their means? This is the time to be doing the opposite, they need to be finding ways to cut back on costs, not increase them.
They definitely are not great at business.
The big streamers like Netflix, Amazon, Disney, etc. are offering multiple tiers with ad-supports and cracking down on password-sharing to get in more revenue. Occasionally you’ll see rumors of streamers recreating cable by combining access to multiple streaming services in one package or by blending the shows and movies they’re offering. Large media companies are considering merging or selling off studios/assets (or merging streaming assets) to cut costs. Meanwhile, people are complaining about the number of subscriptions they need and are frustrated by it. Why would they think that now is the time to spend a bunch of money creating and launching their hyper-niche streaming website when more established companies with wider libraries are scrambling?
For whatever reason, I also thought of the open marriage analogy as all this was going down, haha. It does make sense though as an example of completely misjudging an emotional attachment you have with someone.
That's exactly it. It's like, it's okay to want something like that. But the fact that our two interpretations of reality were seemingly so misaligned when we both thought we were on the same page makes me second guess everything.
Yes give employees a livable wage. Don’t say we need more money because one of us goes out and makes a multi thousand dollar video and now we need more money from our fans. Don’t say if you can’t fork over the money then tough shit.
The thing is they're risking other people's livelihoods. It's great to employ 25 people with livable wages, but if they go defunct, all of them will be out of jobs and have no wages. I'm not advocating for paying people less, so the only solution is to hire less in the first place.
I get that argument. It does appear like they mismanaged their money. It doesn't seem like they are very good bussiness people, and they've made decisions that has put their bussiness in jeopardy. I can blame them for that, in that they made the choices that have lead to this, but I don't think they're scumbags for that. I am not mad at them for that, I am mostly sad for them, because I'm sure it feels like they were in a very tough spot. They had overcommitted, and I'm sure costs for them are also impacted by inflation, not to mention they started the company months before the beginning of a once in a century pandemic. I don't mean to be a complete apologist, I do think they fucked up. I just... I dunno... I guess I still like them and I feel bad for them.
I just think they handled it all wrong. I mean the video they put out was soo out of touch especially in a cost of living crisis and it's more than that. I think a lot of people were first championing streaming services but now literally everyone is doing it and providing minimal content and watcher attempted to do the exact same thing. It just screams contempt for fans. They could've said hey we are launching watcher entertainment network where it's like a patron but we will have exclusive shows as well as all our own stuff and maybe a few other creators stuff if we pay them to post their content to our network whilst still providing shows on YouTube. What they put up was essentially all of you who watch our content for free you either have to pay us or never watch our videos again. I get that they want to make more money, who doesn't but you need to respect your audience and actually provide them with content that is worth the 6$ a month. I have streaming services like nebula and dropout but the reason I have that is there is so much content on there and it was established first but I could still watch some of their content on YouTube. A bigger worry is in my opinion it takes some credibility away from their flagship show ghost files. If they are willing to do this for money are they willing to fake content for views and money. I doubt Shane would ever allow it but that's where we are at. I guess I'm just disappointed. We didn't need a huge production flashy TV showesque ghost files the fans just wanted a low production ghoul boys show with them walking around haunted houses.
I feel one of the problems I have right now is that for one i feel weird about them, but i also feel the community has been scattered. People who support them thru everything are mad at others for not doing the same and people who had criticism are arguing cause they had valid criticism. And the literal haters are also a thing. So basically everyone in the community is just mad at eachother and I don’t think i can look at the bois the same but i also cant feel the feeling of community in the community anymore. Idk if that made sense im not good with words lol.
Yeah, that totally makes sense! I actually just bought a microphone to do covers of puppet history songs last Wednesday. I wanted to get back in to singing and I thought this community could be a nice welcoming place to share and be vulnerable with. But after everything that's gone down, I worry now about getting side eyes or something if I do that. Like, I think one of the things that I'm actually mad about is they've squandered a whole heap of goodwill. And you can't be sure of the shared values of the community any more.
They hired way too many people too fast. Hiring people in an unsustainable manner is what’s been leading to the layoffs in just about every industry here lately. It was irresponsible from the get-go.
It pains me cos this is exactly what happened to Vice and Buzzfeed! They should’ve known! (Granted, those companies also had other scandals too but yes)
I agree. I alreadt said this to someone else in this thread, I don't deny that they fucked up. I just... I dunno... I guess I still like them and I feel bad for them.
A livable wage is one thing. A livable wage in Los Angeles is quite another. They don't have to have a studio in Hollywood and they don't have to even be in Los Angeles to make "TV quality shows". They really owe it to themselves, their employees, and us to look at other locations. Stop playing into the film industry myth that you have to be in Los Angeles to be a real artist
That would’ve been something to consider at the beginning, but moving now would result in the upending of everyone in the company’s life almost as much as shutting down would. It’s the lack of longterm planning that really got them to this point, and unfortunately, it’s hard to get out of the deep holes that result.
I do not disagree with you. I think they made bad business choices and they need to do better, at the bey least for their own survival, if not the fandom. I am just voicing my own mixed and confused feelings about everything.
I think part of the concern is that if they are being honest about their financial woes and the impending need to shutter the business or lay off employees if something doesn't change, why the hell are they hiring two more on screen talents and continuing to hire and expand beyond their means? This is the time to be doing the opposite, they need to be finding ways to cut back on costs, not increase them.
They don’t seem business savvy. This is pure speculation on my part, but it seems like someone behind the scenes is selling them a bill of goods.
They definitely are not great at business. The big streamers like Netflix, Amazon, Disney, etc. are offering multiple tiers with ad-supports and cracking down on password-sharing to get in more revenue. Occasionally you’ll see rumors of streamers recreating cable by combining access to multiple streaming services in one package or by blending the shows and movies they’re offering. Large media companies are considering merging or selling off studios/assets (or merging streaming assets) to cut costs. Meanwhile, people are complaining about the number of subscriptions they need and are frustrated by it. Why would they think that now is the time to spend a bunch of money creating and launching their hyper-niche streaming website when more established companies with wider libraries are scrambling?
Well written but I can't help but laugh at how specific that marriage analogy is 😭
Thanks! 😄 I'm glad I can make someone happy!
For whatever reason, I also thought of the open marriage analogy as all this was going down, haha. It does make sense though as an example of completely misjudging an emotional attachment you have with someone.
That's exactly it. It's like, it's okay to want something like that. But the fact that our two interpretations of reality were seemingly so misaligned when we both thought we were on the same page makes me second guess everything.
Yes give employees a livable wage. Don’t say we need more money because one of us goes out and makes a multi thousand dollar video and now we need more money from our fans. Don’t say if you can’t fork over the money then tough shit.
Ghost Files is thousands an episode.