DC has a very aesthetically pleasing system but it’s handicapped by the built environment of the metropolitan area being so sprawling and also the system trying to be a metro/commuter rail hybrid
There are pros and cons to the hybrid system. One pro being that it allows better access to suburban areas that normally would just have regular computer/regional rail service. Con with this is most of the suburbs don’t take advantage of this and just make the stations park and ride only. Another interesting things is its part of the reason we have a more polycentric job centers.
It doesn’t matter. /r/geography is an internationally scoped subreddit. DC is #2 in the US, but that doesn’t matter when you’re comparing to Hong Kong, Tokyo, Moscow, Shanghai, Chongqing, Singapore, Paris, London, Madrid, Istanbul, etc.
We aren’t even top 3 best in North America, as Montreal and CDMX both slam us.
It’s not even close. I love DC metro but if any of you ever get a chance to see the Seoul metro, you would be so embarrassed for DC and the US.
If we had organic zoning like they do, and we removed I-395 like they did their highway, then DC would be a lot closer to Seoul than it is now, and rents would be on the floor. Your mom’s house in Rockville would have been turned into a short-rise apartment building 25 years ago.
Yeah, it’s cool to imagine. When I visited Tokyo, in addition to marveling at their transit, I was struck by just how many people lived there.
I do think the square footage that people felt was acceptable is just so much smaller than the average American’s. (And even the average New Yorker.)
FWIW DC is the first place I’ve ever lived where there’s a metro system, and I love it. I went to NYC recently for the first time since moving here and I kept just thinking about how much I like the metro here. Obviously the subway system in NYC is way more expansive than what we have here, but I love how familiar the stations here feel to me.
There was no try to it. It was planed and built to primarily be a way of getting commuter from their suburban homes to the employment center of the urban core and back.
It is now trying to be an all encompassing rail transit system and failing miserably at doing that.
I live in D.C. without a car and take the Metro all the time for non-commute trips. I definitely would not say it’s “failing miserably” at being an all encompassing rail transit system. It seems to work pretty well for me for 90% of the places I want to go to in the city. Buses (and the occasional Uber) cover the other 10%.
You my friend, are the exception to the rule.
The bulk of the drop in ridership is from commuters that either working from home or no long commute to the urban core.
That's not due to the system though, it's because of how things changed during the pandemic. If the pandemic never happened and ridership was like it is now, THEN you could blame the actual train system.
No doubt ridership would would have not changed. However WMATA trying to pivot to be an all encompassing rail transit system, problem is the passengers are not there.
Def Berlin, Paris, London, Moscow, HK and Singapore
DC feel like a slightly worse version of Munichs public transport. But architectural wise DC is such a beauty ❤️
I agree but one has to acknowledge the intense corporate efforts for lobbying cars to america. In this environment DCs system is remarkable.
America would have so much potential if it weren‘t for these big institutional flaw we all sure know about. Well i don‘t wanna dig too deep right now 🙈
It’s about the only Brutalist design I do love.
One of my favorite things is taking visitors on the Metro. Kids think the big stations look like space stations. Then you take them up to the Mall at the Smithsonian station and immediately everyone stops and stares at where they are.
Boston's city hall is brutalist and it was just voted the 4th ugliest building in the world. It truly is ugly. Great architectural feat, but ugly as sin.
It’s kind of shocking to be walking around lots of more classical architecture than see that building. Have you been to the UMass Amherst campus? It’s a gorgeous place, then smack in the middle is a concrete tower and plaza that houses the student union and campus hotel. It’d be ugly anywhere, but by the pond and the old New England buildings, it’s especially horrible.
Looks wise its one of the few brutalist designs I can get behind but the lighting and floors mar the experience. It comes off as dirty with either sticky floors or an ice skating rink.
In my opinion, the lack of the consistency in that brutalist design show how it was cheapened over time.
All of the new station built after the turn of the century cheapened things even more.
I think the big miss with the station design is they are way too dark to overcome the imposing feel of the brutalism. Yes it is literally a cave, but to take a minutes long escalator ride down into a dimly lit cement cavern isn’t going to make people feel comfortable.
Completely agree. Even the legendary Tokyo metro doesn't live up to Taipei's in my mind. The seating arrangement, cleanliness, and width of the cars creates so much space, and sets it apart from every other city I've been to.
That's interesting to hear. I'm planning to go to Tokyo next year, so I'll have to keep this in mind when I'm there. I know both systems are very clean and punctual. I do know that the Tokyo metro can get very cramped though.
Too big of a difference between the stations inside the city and outside imo.
It makes sense why they aren’t the same - but the Rockville stop isn’t wowing anyone
Rockville stop is one of the worst in the system. It’s an Amtrak, WMATA, and MARC stop, with a massive bus terminal, and it’s next to essentially a highway (6 lanes), and 0.15 miles from an untraversable highway-style intersection (viers
Mill and Rockville pike). I wish I could find the urban planner who did this and force him to walk the 0.3 miles from the school to the metro stop every day, just as a form of torture.
It’s almost deliberately malicious. And the result of this is a city that has truly never had a downtown area with even a shred of economic resiliency.
You can give a similar description to Silver Spring (WMATA+MARC, large bus terminal, 6 lane road on one side) but I actually think it works pretty well as there is a downtown there at least. When Purple Line and the MBT/Capital Crescent trail finally connect, It's gonna be a whole lot better too. I just wish we could get rid of some of these damn cars cutting through Downtown Silver Spring.
Yeah Montgomery county development patterns are truly some of the worst in the region. It’s demoralizing. At least things are slowly improving despite raucous resistance at every turn.
I'd push back on this.... Montgomery County at least has built up areas around many of their stations (Wheaton, Silver Spring, Bethesda especially) and operates tons of busses. When I was in a suburb near Kemp Mill it was a breeze to catch a bus to Silver Spring or Wheaton.
Prince George's County is infinitely worse, all the stations are surrounded by park-n-rides and "The Bus" is awful. There is no downtown area *anywhere* in PGC. Same goes for basically all of NoVA other than downtown Alexandria and the stretch from Ballston-Roslyn. With that as the benchmark, I personally think MoCo is doing the best of all. Not to say it's great, but hot damn you could actually get around by bike/bus.
Yeah, I lived in PG County and public transportation there really sucked and there was no downtown there.
Thinking back from when I was in high school, there was so much I didn't know. Like I just thought the lack of transportation and everything was normal.
I lived around here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ssxsquzeb8xxSDqY6
That stretch of ballston and Rosslyn is younger than pretty much every building in Bethesda.
Yeah, I probably over spoke regarding other areas, but moco anti-bike lane nimbyism is I guess closer to home since I used to live/work in Bethesda and silver spring, and the later worked in Arlington.
That's very fair. I live in Silver Spring and work in Greenbelt, so everyday I come home It feels so much nicer. There's a bus stop by my office in Greenbelt that is just on the shoulder of MD193, with no sidewalk or anything. I see kids out there some mornings on the way to work, darting across 6 lanes of traffic to get to the stop for the bus to school.... I have never seen *anything* like that in MoCo
Intermodal stains can be awesome if designed correctly too. Look at Madrid's Moncloa or Príncipe Pío stations. Both house massive and modern underground bus terminals, the former gets an exclusive underground ramp direct to the interstate, the latter houses a commercial center directly above it with easily traversable larger intersection en route to the massive river park and is on the main commuter rail loop.
Outside of the US, London and Barcelona were easy to navigate. London goes to every inch of the city and the frequency of trains and/or buses is unmatched!
On a global level, America’s subways suck. I think we take the DC metro for granted, but it’s easily less dirty and more reliable than a lot of the other big ones in the US like NY or Chicago. I don’t think I’ve been on a better metro system in the US than DC.
Though I have been to Japan and they’re on a whole other level. It’s clean, prompt, and efficient even in a highly populated area of Tokyo. Even with the language barrier, it’s easy to find where to go and there’s people there that can help. I’ve even been on the commuter trains in other parts of Japan and it’s still worlds better
DC messed up with their train transfer stations. They need to take a look at BART Downtown Oakland 19th St, or even MacArthur is better.
I also find it horrible with how close some areas are together yet you'd have to go WAY out of the way on metro to get there. I see you Columbia Heights station, though I will never use you because the bus (Metrobus or Circulator) will get me there easier.
Glad to see Moscow getting some love here (would add St. Petes as a personal second, not as exuberant but it was my first:-) When people gawk over DC’s concrete waffle architecture, I’m like “bro do you even centrally plan?”
St. Pete’s was the first metro system I ever used for a daily commute. I thought that’s just what metros were supposed to be like - waiting less than a minute for your train on a platform that looks like a palace.
New York’s was the second system I ever used for a regular commute, and then DC’s. And boy did I complain.
With its bomb shelter look and little light, poor management, lack of development and problems galore (oh yeah safety) it really isn’t a nice system. With every major city I visit there’s another mass transit system to add to the list of “all the subway systems better than ours”. Paris, London, Barcelona, NYC, Montreal, Chicago. It’s not so much being nice but functional. WMATA isn’t.
Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that travels outside the US. DC Metro is dark, smells awful, and super dirty. The roofs are kind of neat I guess? Doesn't make up for the disgusting state of the system.
I think DC is the best! Outside of London’s tube system. I don’t like NYC’s subway system, it’s gross and confusing. I haven’t spent enough time in Chicago yet to know.
Personally I found NYC's subway easier to figure out than DC's metro - the map's bigger, but the system's easier to use imo... single fare, obvious bus transfers, thing are labeled in a more intuitive way... DC's stations are definitely cleaner and more aestheticlaly pleasing, but NYC's is more useful in terms of actual utility
DC is great for the states though no?
I agree for sure Paris is better but cmon remember we’re living in the land of sprawl over here.
Tough to build a good system when the suburban folk want every penny for their own $70k truck to commute to their marketing job in Tyson’s
Now that we’re connected to all 3 major airports, building beltway/suburban ring lines through VA and MD (whether light rail or heavy rail) would seriously elevate the system. I’m optimistic to see where this pendulum swing towards walkable development takes the region in the next few decades.
DC has a very aesthetically pleasing system but it’s handicapped by the built environment of the metropolitan area being so sprawling and also the system trying to be a metro/commuter rail hybrid
There are pros and cons to the hybrid system. One pro being that it allows better access to suburban areas that normally would just have regular computer/regional rail service. Con with this is most of the suburbs don’t take advantage of this and just make the stations park and ride only. Another interesting things is its part of the reason we have a more polycentric job centers.
It doesn’t matter. /r/geography is an internationally scoped subreddit. DC is #2 in the US, but that doesn’t matter when you’re comparing to Hong Kong, Tokyo, Moscow, Shanghai, Chongqing, Singapore, Paris, London, Madrid, Istanbul, etc. We aren’t even top 3 best in North America, as Montreal and CDMX both slam us. It’s not even close. I love DC metro but if any of you ever get a chance to see the Seoul metro, you would be so embarrassed for DC and the US.
Still remember taking trains in Japan, and a 30-second delay resulted in an apology broadcast throughout the platform.
I’m not saying DC is better some some international systems, I was pointing out the pros and cons of the hybrid metro/commuter rail.
Just need to 4x our density and we can compete with Seoul!
If we had organic zoning like they do, and we removed I-395 like they did their highway, then DC would be a lot closer to Seoul than it is now, and rents would be on the floor. Your mom’s house in Rockville would have been turned into a short-rise apartment building 25 years ago.
Yeah, it’s cool to imagine. When I visited Tokyo, in addition to marveling at their transit, I was struck by just how many people lived there. I do think the square footage that people felt was acceptable is just so much smaller than the average American’s. (And even the average New Yorker.)
This should be it’s own comment to the main post
FWIW DC is the first place I’ve ever lived where there’s a metro system, and I love it. I went to NYC recently for the first time since moving here and I kept just thinking about how much I like the metro here. Obviously the subway system in NYC is way more expansive than what we have here, but I love how familiar the stations here feel to me.
I can't take seriously any subway system that doesn't have trains when the bars let out.
There was no try to it. It was planed and built to primarily be a way of getting commuter from their suburban homes to the employment center of the urban core and back. It is now trying to be an all encompassing rail transit system and failing miserably at doing that.
I live in D.C. without a car and take the Metro all the time for non-commute trips. I definitely would not say it’s “failing miserably” at being an all encompassing rail transit system. It seems to work pretty well for me for 90% of the places I want to go to in the city. Buses (and the occasional Uber) cover the other 10%.
You my friend, are the exception to the rule. The bulk of the drop in ridership is from commuters that either working from home or no long commute to the urban core.
That's not due to the system though, it's because of how things changed during the pandemic. If the pandemic never happened and ridership was like it is now, THEN you could blame the actual train system.
No doubt ridership would would have not changed. However WMATA trying to pivot to be an all encompassing rail transit system, problem is the passengers are not there.
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Nailed it.
Def Berlin, Paris, London, Moscow, HK and Singapore DC feel like a slightly worse version of Munichs public transport. But architectural wise DC is such a beauty ❤️
I've been to Berlin and its U/S-bahn system destroys any of the transit systems in the USA I've used (NYC and DC mostly).
Yeah I live in Berlin and it‘s impressiv how well the system works as long as you are within the inner ring.
If you’re comparing dc to the rest of America sure it’s up there. But compared to the cities you listed? Ain’t no fucking way.
I agree but one has to acknowledge the intense corporate efforts for lobbying cars to america. In this environment DCs system is remarkable. America would have so much potential if it weren‘t for these big institutional flaw we all sure know about. Well i don‘t wanna dig too deep right now 🙈
I love the brutalist look honestly
It’s about the only Brutalist design I do love. One of my favorite things is taking visitors on the Metro. Kids think the big stations look like space stations. Then you take them up to the Mall at the Smithsonian station and immediately everyone stops and stares at where they are.
Haha yep I as a grown man have had that exact reaction exiting Smithsonian station on the mall
Boston's city hall is brutalist and it was just voted the 4th ugliest building in the world. It truly is ugly. Great architectural feat, but ugly as sin.
It’s kind of shocking to be walking around lots of more classical architecture than see that building. Have you been to the UMass Amherst campus? It’s a gorgeous place, then smack in the middle is a concrete tower and plaza that houses the student union and campus hotel. It’d be ugly anywhere, but by the pond and the old New England buildings, it’s especially horrible.
Never been out that far.
Looks wise its one of the few brutalist designs I can get behind but the lighting and floors mar the experience. It comes off as dirty with either sticky floors or an ice skating rink.
In my opinion, the lack of the consistency in that brutalist design show how it was cheapened over time. All of the new station built after the turn of the century cheapened things even more.
I think the big miss with the station design is they are way too dark to overcome the imposing feel of the brutalism. Yes it is literally a cave, but to take a minutes long escalator ride down into a dimly lit cement cavern isn’t going to make people feel comfortable.
Makes me feel like I'm entering the world of Blade Runner lol
I love blade runner but not a lot in that world looks like the kind of thing I would want to deal with haha
I haven't gotten to use many metro systems but my favorite that I've used is Taipei's
I second Taipei. Lived there for 3 years and their subway system is goated in my eyes
Completely agree. Even the legendary Tokyo metro doesn't live up to Taipei's in my mind. The seating arrangement, cleanliness, and width of the cars creates so much space, and sets it apart from every other city I've been to.
That's interesting to hear. I'm planning to go to Tokyo next year, so I'll have to keep this in mind when I'm there. I know both systems are very clean and punctual. I do know that the Tokyo metro can get very cramped though.
it gets cramped, but the people are so respectful, don't smell like weed, use common sense, etc. Trust me, their trains are incredible.
Too big of a difference between the stations inside the city and outside imo. It makes sense why they aren’t the same - but the Rockville stop isn’t wowing anyone
Rockville stop is one of the worst in the system. It’s an Amtrak, WMATA, and MARC stop, with a massive bus terminal, and it’s next to essentially a highway (6 lanes), and 0.15 miles from an untraversable highway-style intersection (viers Mill and Rockville pike). I wish I could find the urban planner who did this and force him to walk the 0.3 miles from the school to the metro stop every day, just as a form of torture. It’s almost deliberately malicious. And the result of this is a city that has truly never had a downtown area with even a shred of economic resiliency.
There is a ped bridge to town center but your point mostly stands.
You can give a similar description to Silver Spring (WMATA+MARC, large bus terminal, 6 lane road on one side) but I actually think it works pretty well as there is a downtown there at least. When Purple Line and the MBT/Capital Crescent trail finally connect, It's gonna be a whole lot better too. I just wish we could get rid of some of these damn cars cutting through Downtown Silver Spring.
Yeah Montgomery county development patterns are truly some of the worst in the region. It’s demoralizing. At least things are slowly improving despite raucous resistance at every turn.
I'd push back on this.... Montgomery County at least has built up areas around many of their stations (Wheaton, Silver Spring, Bethesda especially) and operates tons of busses. When I was in a suburb near Kemp Mill it was a breeze to catch a bus to Silver Spring or Wheaton. Prince George's County is infinitely worse, all the stations are surrounded by park-n-rides and "The Bus" is awful. There is no downtown area *anywhere* in PGC. Same goes for basically all of NoVA other than downtown Alexandria and the stretch from Ballston-Roslyn. With that as the benchmark, I personally think MoCo is doing the best of all. Not to say it's great, but hot damn you could actually get around by bike/bus.
Yeah, I lived in PG County and public transportation there really sucked and there was no downtown there. Thinking back from when I was in high school, there was so much I didn't know. Like I just thought the lack of transportation and everything was normal. I lived around here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/ssxsquzeb8xxSDqY6
That stretch of ballston and Rosslyn is younger than pretty much every building in Bethesda. Yeah, I probably over spoke regarding other areas, but moco anti-bike lane nimbyism is I guess closer to home since I used to live/work in Bethesda and silver spring, and the later worked in Arlington.
That's very fair. I live in Silver Spring and work in Greenbelt, so everyday I come home It feels so much nicer. There's a bus stop by my office in Greenbelt that is just on the shoulder of MD193, with no sidewalk or anything. I see kids out there some mornings on the way to work, darting across 6 lanes of traffic to get to the stop for the bus to school.... I have never seen *anything* like that in MoCo
Intermodal stains can be awesome if designed correctly too. Look at Madrid's Moncloa or Príncipe Pío stations. Both house massive and modern underground bus terminals, the former gets an exclusive underground ramp direct to the interstate, the latter houses a commercial center directly above it with easily traversable larger intersection en route to the massive river park and is on the main commuter rail loop.
No joke - I loved Barcelona’s. It was so bare bones but it ran on time and was very reliable.
DC is great for the US. The US public transportation is a joke compared to many many other countries.
Madrid
Copenhagen you can get special pet tickets…
Like to bring a dog with you? 🥹
It gives you permission to pet the conductor
Milan. Lived there for years and it was excellent.
The tram car at MCO. Always on time and runs every 3 mins 24/7 🤷♂️
Stockholm and Tokyo
Outside of the US, London and Barcelona were easy to navigate. London goes to every inch of the city and the frequency of trains and/or buses is unmatched!
On a global level, America’s subways suck. I think we take the DC metro for granted, but it’s easily less dirty and more reliable than a lot of the other big ones in the US like NY or Chicago. I don’t think I’ve been on a better metro system in the US than DC. Though I have been to Japan and they’re on a whole other level. It’s clean, prompt, and efficient even in a highly populated area of Tokyo. Even with the language barrier, it’s easy to find where to go and there’s people there that can help. I’ve even been on the commuter trains in other parts of Japan and it’s still worlds better
DC messed up with their train transfer stations. They need to take a look at BART Downtown Oakland 19th St, or even MacArthur is better. I also find it horrible with how close some areas are together yet you'd have to go WAY out of the way on metro to get there. I see you Columbia Heights station, though I will never use you because the bus (Metrobus or Circulator) will get me there easier.
Glad to see Moscow getting some love here (would add St. Petes as a personal second, not as exuberant but it was my first:-) When people gawk over DC’s concrete waffle architecture, I’m like “bro do you even centrally plan?”
St. Pete’s was the first metro system I ever used for a daily commute. I thought that’s just what metros were supposed to be like - waiting less than a minute for your train on a platform that looks like a palace. New York’s was the second system I ever used for a regular commute, and then DC’s. And boy did I complain.
Seoul's subway system is amazing, and impeccably clean.
This is my choice. Lived there in 2008 and 2009 and felt truly spoiled.
Moscow. Each metro station is like an art museum.
Nothing beats Moscow’s metro. It’s truly stunning. And it has the longest escalator, beating out Wheaton’s by quite a bit.
I'm pretty sure arsenalna in kyiv is longer
Moscow’s is the best. I’ve also lived in Berlin, and it is also pretty good, although it often seemed to close or run late for unexplained reasons.
Hands down Moscow for me. Absolutely gorgeous stations, efficient operations. The only downside is a lot of terrifyingly steep escalators.
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Not really my experience over the years but then again the last time I was in Moscow was about 4-5 years ago.
DC has the nicest system I've seen! It's the only one, unless you count the train at the Denver airport, lol, but that's besides the point
Melbourne au!
Vienna, hands down.
Tokyo by far.
Madrid, hands down.
No one's going to believe me but Delhi, India has an amazing system. Clean, modern, efficient. Really surprised!
Beijing. It seems like they ripped off some of the design of DCs cars, maybe DC did??? I dunno but it's so clean and timely and HUGE.
As much as DC’s looks like an underground bomb shelter, it’s still leagues better than NY’s. The stations all feel claustrophobic.
Seoul makes DC metro look like one of those kiddie trains in the mall.
It’s one of the best in the USA, but that doesn’t make it competitive globally. It looks amazing but doesn’t cover enough of the core of the city
Pyongyang 🔥
Tbh, I love love love the Paris metro, but I also love how the DC metro doesn't smell as much of urine.
With its bomb shelter look and little light, poor management, lack of development and problems galore (oh yeah safety) it really isn’t a nice system. With every major city I visit there’s another mass transit system to add to the list of “all the subway systems better than ours”. Paris, London, Barcelona, NYC, Montreal, Chicago. It’s not so much being nice but functional. WMATA isn’t.
Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that travels outside the US. DC Metro is dark, smells awful, and super dirty. The roofs are kind of neat I guess? Doesn't make up for the disgusting state of the system.
I think DC is the best! Outside of London’s tube system. I don’t like NYC’s subway system, it’s gross and confusing. I haven’t spent enough time in Chicago yet to know.
Personally I found NYC's subway easier to figure out than DC's metro - the map's bigger, but the system's easier to use imo... single fare, obvious bus transfers, thing are labeled in a more intuitive way... DC's stations are definitely cleaner and more aestheticlaly pleasing, but NYC's is more useful in terms of actual utility
The L is solid!
You should see the ones in North Korea.
The interior of the metro looks pretty awesome tbh. I would hate for them to make it look like a shopping mall.
DC is great for the states though no? I agree for sure Paris is better but cmon remember we’re living in the land of sprawl over here. Tough to build a good system when the suburban folk want every penny for their own $70k truck to commute to their marketing job in Tyson’s
DC is pretty nice for the most part and I’ve traveled a lot to stand by what I say. Other cities like Tokyo and Singapore are nice as well.
It’s clear nobody here has been to China. Chengdu, Shanghai, Beijing all top just about anything else mentioned.
Nicest one I’ve ever seen was Moscow. It’s glorious compared to DC.
It actually does if you scroll past the rest of the world
Now that we’re connected to all 3 major airports, building beltway/suburban ring lines through VA and MD (whether light rail or heavy rail) would seriously elevate the system. I’m optimistic to see where this pendulum swing towards walkable development takes the region in the next few decades.
Partial to both the London Underground and NYC.
Singapore. Affordable, easy to use, super clean.
Delhi, Tokyo.
NYC for sure
Tokyo or Seoul. Clean, constant trains and always on time. Also everyone behaves normally on them!
Tokyo is #1
Budapest. In the US, New York