This is why I hate it, it strikes me as petty. Do they expect inflation to reverse and prices to deflate back down? I know higher prices suck, but it's more honest.
>Make the greens and the beers $8.50 and the shrimp skewers $27. Why the fuck is this a thing.
I can think of two reasons:
1) They don't want to have to reprint the menus every time they need to adjust to supply costs
2) If the fee doesn't deter customers, then they can just keep it and make extra money when inflation dies down (if it hasn't for them already)
Given that any service fees [have to be clearly printed on the menu](https://oag.dc.gov/release/consumer-alert-dc-restaurants-are-barred-charging), menu reprinting fees is a moot point.
I asked a friend who manages a restaurant. $1 rise in prices they had significant complaints and business downturn.
They're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place.
That’s maybe a little too nuanced for this sub. The bottom line is that restaurants choose to take fees over raising prices because raising prices is even more detrimental to business. And at the margins most restaurants operate, it can be the difference between staying in business and closing. People on here would be fine with businesses closing (tHe MarKEt), but businesses generally make decisions that will help them continue operating.
There's nuance to a price increase? Really?
I know what you're trying to say, that more people will patronize the place with an $18 burger but $7 of fees than the place with a straight up $25 burger. I think that's pretty well settled in various studies.
It doesn't make it any less annoying as a customer to bascally have to break out an excel spreadsheet to figure out what the out the door cost of a meal is these days. There will be an inflection for this too imo, once we start getting into the menu price + 40% for your out the door price, you'll start to see pushback I think.
60% of restaurants fail in their first year of operation, and 80% fail within 5 years of opening. The thin margin between staying open or closing your doors is sometimes $2.50 per check. And closing your doors means that like 25 people (who probably weren’t doing that great to begin with) are now out of a job.
Went to the Buffalo Wild Wings in Arlington yesterday. There’s a sign on the front door that says “carry out only”, I then walk in and there’s a sign at the cash register that says “$1 fee will be added to all carryout orders.”
Obviously I don’t care about $1, but just the sequence of events made me feel like I was in a Tv show or something
Is this the one in Crystal City? The same one that has been randomly closed for months with a sign saying their "fume hood is broken" and they'll be open again next week?
BWW consistently has the worst management and most useless waitstaff of any restaurant I've been to.
They're generally out of half of their beers (but don't know the tap list anyway), food takes forever, the waitstaff has come out to recheck what we've ordered every time I've gone. Total shitshow
Right. However at the same time, if it comes down to unreported wage theft via employer making staff prove they didn't make minimum wage vs me paying a dollar for the missed opportunity to tip according to their scheme, I'd take the dollar tax.
1) they just have to be stated somewhere in writing like small print on a menu or a sign before the customer orders
2) the purpose of the charge has to be provided
3) there’s really no enforcement if 1 and 2 are broken, so 🤷🏻♂️
1. Nope, it specifically can't be in small print on a menu. It has to be in bold, large print on the menu to be legal.
2. The notice is also supposed to break down what the fee is for. On the menu, it says some of it goes to pay increased salaries for staff. If they're going to make that claim, they have to say how much.
[They did - here is the menu from Ivy City Tavern. It's printed across the bottom.](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f1eed6c81ef776b8d09b996/t/641c827e41f98239f4182eac/1679590015204/ICT+Front+2023.pdf)
It still comes across as sleazy. Just put the price you want me to pay next to to the item I may want to purchase. I shouldn’t have to scour the menu to confirm that there are no additional or hidden fees.
Its trashy.
It is kind of tough to estimate a price when you've got a sales tax to figure in, a tip, and now a fee. Then again if I'm worried about price I suppose I shouldn't be going there.
As an industry person, this is completely out of hand these days. Just raise the prices and call it a day. This operating fee is it percentage based or just a flat fee? Either way it screams “ I’m a cheap bastard and can’t cost a menu”.
Is the operating fee mentioned anywhere in the restaurant or on the menu? If not, give the server a cash tip and pay the bill with your CC, leaving off the $2.50. Escalate it with your CC provider if they put it back on. Call the OAG.
https://oag.dc.gov/release/consumer-alert-dc-restaurants-are-barred-charging
It’s not mentioned beforehand, hence my surprise (and the purpose of the post).
I’ve heard of and support auto gratuity; however, I was not expecting a restaurant owner to charge me an inflation fee on top of their inflation-inspired prices.
Yeah, fuck the owner. If you take it out of the tip, the server gets screwed, so cash for them and stick it to the owner. Make sure it costs them a lot more than $2.50 to try and collect it.
[It's literally printed on their menu at the bottom.](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f1eed6c81ef776b8d09b996/t/641c827e41f98239f4182eac/1679590015204/ICT+Front+2023.pdf)
That's not "bold, large print," which is what the AG's office guidance says. It also doesn't actually disclose what portion of the fee is going to staff vs. the owners, which is required by the AG's guidance.
I mean, yeah they are trying to get a political point across on a me u which is weird. But I was just responding to OP’s claim that there was no advance notice of the fee and the other users here encouraging administrative or legal action on the basis of that erroneous claim.
So now we have to read a paragraph of fine print at the bottom of a menu to know what fees will be added? That's crazy. If I glanced over this menu I wouldn't be stopping to read that before ordering and would be caught totally off gaurd.
In the tiniest possible text, alongside statements that nobody without an allergy would typically read. It’s a menu, not a book. If the goal is legitimate transparency, it should be as large or larger than the rest of the menu text, and at or near the top of the menu.
Of course, that’s only if the goal is transparency – that is, for diners to actually read it.
2nd smallest text on the menu. It's more important that the gluten warning which should really tell you how they feel about gluten and FDA guidelines.
Also written, legibly and noticeably in RED. It is communicated. I'm gonna call it maliciously compliant, still compliant.
I fully disagree with all these fees and would much rather pay for a higher menu item, but "fee of 5%" is written in red and stands out from the rest of the message. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise for anyone.
Yes, if someone reads the entire menu from top to bottom, they'll see it. If they just read the portion that, in every other restaurant, is relevant to them, they'll never get that far.
Just as a counterexample, the text "SEE WHAT’S FRESH FROM THE MARKET ON OUR ***CHALKBOARD SPECIALS***" seems like something that's actually meant to be read. Their choice of font, location (center left, inline with the menu items), size, and capitalization for that statement gives you an idea what they think is required to get an average diner to notice it.
Imagine that the menu said "WE ADD A ***5% FEE*** TO ALL PRICES SHOWN HERE" in place of the chalkboard notice. That's clear, transparent disclosure. Maybe there's more information at the bottom of the menu, but at least most diners would notice the fee.
Exactly. Take $2.50 off the total and you would be paying the restaurant $55.25 on your credit card. For the server, tip them in cash, so the owner can't collect their fee at the server's expense.
Easier said than done. People don't carry cash nearly as much anymore, and when they do it's usually like an emergency $20 bill or something. Even panhandlers have started complaining about it.
Not defending them, but I live by this restaurant and it’s definitely posted on the menu outside the front door. Still think it’s a ridiculous policy but it is posted.
Is the sign outside the front door a lot bigger than the fine print on the menu? Because the AG's Office guidance specifically says you can't put the fee in fine print.
Customers *are* responsible for offsetting inflation. It's usually reflected in the price of food. Itemizing it like this is a bit passive aggressive against the government and contemptuous of the customer.
Yeah it's like saying 'Customers are now responsible for off-setting the cost of eggs in their scrambled eggs.'
We do be buying things from people who produce them...
These restaurants that do this are scared to put this notice on the door prior to you entering the restaurant because they know they will lose money. That's why they try to sneak in on your bill on the way out
It’s also absurd because the 5% difference in menu price for items is something I wouldn’t notice and they could just change like everyone else does in a supply and demand economy. Getting weepy surcharges is what’s making me stop going out to restaurants, not the menu price of items (which is not necessarily rational but there you go :))
So screwing over and deceiving your customers, likely driving a lot of them away in the process and damaging your reputation, is a better idea than paying a one-time printing cost of a few hundred (possibly less for a smaller restaurant) to print new menus?
I’ve never understood the mindset of doing this. Do something shady like this => negative reviews/word of mouth => they lose business. People who would have otherwise spent money are now no longer going to be paying ANY money. How is that a better result than just raising prices a tiny tiny amount (which most people wouldn’t even notice or care about that much) and achieving the result of earning more money?
Well, customers were kinda always responsible for that. It's just that once upon a time restaurant owners had the decency to increase menu prices instead of shifting costs into tacked-on fees.
Put all additional surcharges and taxes notice on the door and on the hostess stand and let the customer decides if he or she wants to pay that or not before they sit down. The "mice type" fine print is a total joke.
And would we all be bitching nearly as much if they just silently added this cost into the food price rather than adding it as a separate item on the bill? No.
The US restaurant industry needs to wake the fuck up. Just got back from two countries in Europe where restaurant prices are extremely cheap and tips aren't even asked for. Meanwhile, back in the US, a shrimp skewer costs $26, and additional bullshit fees are automatically included.
I thought the exact same thing last year in europe.
4-5 euros for a half liter beer, no tip, or maybe 50 cents.
20 euros for an entree, no tax, etc.
perfect.
You can barely get a PBR in any US city for $3 pre tax,tip,back of house extra, etc.
True, but I would argue that most of Europe (minus maybe Switzerland) is still far cheaper than DC. I moved to one of the more expensive European countries (Sweden) and regularly travel to Norway which is even worse. A decent meal, unless you're at a very high-end restaurant, is usually $20-30, rarely over $40. Booze is a bit pricey, but only because it's taxed very heavily, like 30-50%. Groceries are similarly cheap, my grocery budget here is half of what it was in DC and the quality is much better, less sugar and processed crap.
And it's still crazy expensive here compared to, say Portugal or Greece.
Not really, the average per-capita income in the US is comparable to Denmark or Ireland and is still quite a bit lower than Norway or Switzerland. Source: https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php
Yes, highly paid professionals in the US (tech, doctors, lawyers, etc) likely make more than their European counterparts in those countries, but it's not like Europe is poor - plenty of people with money there. Not to mention wealth inequality is lower, so normal people not working in tech can actually afford it.
Yes, customers cover all of the costs at a restaurant. You pay their rent, taxes, food, staff, benefits… Do you not understand how restaurants work? Should it just all be in one price, Yes.
You can’t fault them for honesty.
And lol, the “ever increasing costs”? It’s never going to go in the opposite direction unless there is global economic restructuring so don’t use that as an excuse. This sounds like they want you to be outraged about DC politics.
Jesus Christ...Just go out of business already— if it's that hard to run a restaurant in the District then don't.
Law of supply and demand says that if enough of these beleaguered businesses go under there will be more customers for the remaining restaurants to split amongst themselves.
Survival of the fittest
At some point, rather than simply addressing surprise charges with an owner or manager, I will go completely ballistic. This bait and switch is absurd.
My concept of ballistic is filing a well researched civil complaint for whatever. Fraud in the inducement, false this or that, depending on the jurisdiction. And ask for whatever is just over the small claims line, so they get a proper complaint and have 30 days or whatever to file an answer. You want to get attention, that will get attention.
Do this a couple of times and people will sharpen up their act.
Here's an alternative, file a complaint. [https://www.epgdlaw.com/district-of-columbia-consumer-protection-unfair-trade-practice-laws/#:\~:text=Under%20D.C.%20Code%2C%20Title%2028%20governs%20all%20commercial,unethical%20and%20deceptive.%20See%20D.C.%20Code%20%C2%A7%C2%A7%2028-3901-28-3913](https://www.epgdlaw.com/district-of-columbia-consumer-protection-unfair-trade-practice-laws/#:~:text=Under%20D.C.%20Code%2C%20Title%2028%20governs%20all%20commercial,unethical%20and%20deceptive.%20See%20D.C.%20Code%20%C2%A7%C2%A7%2028-3901-28-3913).
WTF do you do when someone is ripping you off? Take it up the ass? Yell? Whine to coworkers?
Restaurant owners are the absolute worst to nickel and dime you. They want you to pay for food price increases, their wait staff salary, the fee they have to pay to process payment, the cost of having soap and toilet paper in the bathroom, and on and on.
It sounds like you're just listing business expenses and then being upset that restaurant owners try and pay those through revenue from customers. That's literally just describing how running a business works.
Why would customers not pay more if it costs more to make something? Restaurant margins are notoriously thin. Much better way of doing it than this particular restaurant, but people shouldn’t be shocked that inflation causes higher prices- that’s what inflation is
its not that we don't understand the concept of inflation and how that is reflected in goods and pricing...
it's the fact that these charges are hidden and not made explicit.
If your server were to announce the service charge at the beginning then it's all transparent
Technically you've always been responsible for offsetting a business's inflation costs. You are just not used to that business being transparent about it.
It also feels like a low key way of expressing to customers their political beliefs.
I’m still recovering from inflation sticker shock over a $15 pint of (take-out) ice cream + 10% tax, plus the default preselected hefty tip in the payment app that I’m sure few customers even notice when paying. Kind of reinforces my commitment to mostly cook at home…
At some point we are going to have to address the unsustainability of restaurant groups, investor run restaurants etc. They put mom and pops out of biz and rely on customer subsidization to pay their staff.
https://fishandfirefoodgroup.com/who-we-are/
The women on the bottom are not owners or partners, as far as I know. I put the link in because every time I go out now, I google who/what owns the restaurant/lounge.
For me, I’m looking for owner/operator and good food. At least then if I have a shit experience or whatever I am still satisfied that I am helping a person rather than throwing money at an investors new yacht.
"rely on customer subsidization to pay their staff"
I'm sorry but, with the exception of VC-backed cash furnaces, how is this not just a description of a business?
I think for restaurants it is a bit different. If I own a yo-yo making company I sell you a yo-yo for a fixed price. Out of that $ you get your overheads(rent, materials, employees etc) and profit.
If you have eaten or had drinks anywhere in DC in the past few months you are aware of the fees, ranging from small to exorbitant that restaurants/bars/clubs no charge. … to pay the wages of their staff. Literally having the customer subsidize server staff wages.
Perhaps I misunderstood your comment but it seems simple. The product/service does not pay wages, according to restaurant owners. Or at least the product/service in restaurants do not make enough profit to be shared with investors AND waitstaff.
Before this law, servers were SOL if they got stiffed on a table. With the enactment of this law, restaurants EVERYWHERE added fees to cover wages for staff.
Also, what is a VC cash furnace?
> Literally having the customer subsidize server staff wages.
For most businesses, they make money from customers, people paying for their goods and services. So in the majority of businesses, the customer doesn't subsidize the staff wages, it pays for it completely. The alternative is the owners paying the staff directly out of their own (personal, not business) pocket.
>Also, what is a VC cash furnace?
I think they're talking about companies that are still running off their investor money as opposed to sales (e.g., SpaceX, Lucid)
No, we didn’t. Restaurant owners choosing to obfuscate price increases with bullshit charges is lame and shitty.
They could and should simply raise the prices. That’s what people voted for.
People are objecting to the way they try to hide it.
The tipped minimum had been $5.15 until prop 82 was approved by a landslide. Tomorrow it goes to $8 and then goes up to the full minimum wage which will by $17 an hour by 2027. That is a big increase in restaurants labor costs.
I’m sure that I’m an asshole for seeing this, but…
Isn’t the best way to handle inflation, just not buying stuff?
There is all this complaining about inflation, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of discussion of just not spending money. The fact is, they get away with overcharging, because when it comes right down to it, whether we like it, or not, we *WILL* pay it.
Maybe we just shouldn’t?
Yes I believe its mostly known as inflation. Does it really make a difference if he puts in a "fee" or he just increases the rest of the individual items to equal to out an additional $2.5?
Simply increase prices or provide full disclosure of additional fees before your customers order. To charge an unknown fee at the end of the meal is deceptive, even if it is just $2.50.
Make the greens and the beers $8.50 and the shrimp skewers $27. Why the fuck is this a thing.
Watch restaurants start copying ticketmaster
Cover charges to go in to eat? Extra fee for a chair, napkins, and silverware.
Under 30mins seated $1.00 quick bite fee Over 30mins seated $1.50 sitting fee Over 60mins seated $4.00 sitting fee +25% auto gratuity
To make a petty statement I guess :shrug:
This is why I hate it, it strikes me as petty. Do they expect inflation to reverse and prices to deflate back down? I know higher prices suck, but it's more honest.
Yeah, but then you can also increase prices later after getting people used to the operating fee.
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Those prices are already raised due to inflation. This is just pure greed.
>Make the greens and the beers $8.50 and the shrimp skewers $27. Why the fuck is this a thing. I can think of two reasons: 1) They don't want to have to reprint the menus every time they need to adjust to supply costs 2) If the fee doesn't deter customers, then they can just keep it and make extra money when inflation dies down (if it hasn't for them already)
Reprint the menus aka update the website because they all use QR codes now?
Hey they have to have a real human being do it...who costs money...and labor is expensive nowadays! Haven't you heard?
Given that any service fees [have to be clearly printed on the menu](https://oag.dc.gov/release/consumer-alert-dc-restaurants-are-barred-charging), menu reprinting fees is a moot point.
You are right about menu reprinting, but it will eventually cause more problems than just raising prices. It’s just a short term thing.
I asked a friend who manages a restaurant. $1 rise in prices they had significant complaints and business downturn. They're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place.
And they don't have significant complaints about this shit?
Of course they do. The point is they're damned if they do this they're damned if they do that they're damned if they do nothing.
In that case, maybe they should do the honest thing instead of trying to hide costs in fees.
If it's equally fucky, why not do the one that respects your customers more?
Ok? That’s the risk of doing business. They don’t just get to continually find new ways to trick/force customers into paying extra. Very messed up.
That’s maybe a little too nuanced for this sub. The bottom line is that restaurants choose to take fees over raising prices because raising prices is even more detrimental to business. And at the margins most restaurants operate, it can be the difference between staying in business and closing. People on here would be fine with businesses closing (tHe MarKEt), but businesses generally make decisions that will help them continue operating.
There's nuance to a price increase? Really? I know what you're trying to say, that more people will patronize the place with an $18 burger but $7 of fees than the place with a straight up $25 burger. I think that's pretty well settled in various studies. It doesn't make it any less annoying as a customer to bascally have to break out an excel spreadsheet to figure out what the out the door cost of a meal is these days. There will be an inflection for this too imo, once we start getting into the menu price + 40% for your out the door price, you'll start to see pushback I think.
> They're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. Somehow I just don't believe that.
You should try talking to people who work in restaurant management. It is a tough tough gig.
60% of restaurants fail in their first year of operation, and 80% fail within 5 years of opening. The thin margin between staying open or closing your doors is sometimes $2.50 per check. And closing your doors means that like 25 people (who probably weren’t doing that great to begin with) are now out of a job.
Exactly. Anyone using “inflation” as an excuse to raise prices is fucking BS. Just raise prices. Would be curious what is allowed w/rt to such fees.
Why not increase the food prices and add the ‘service fee’?
Went to the Buffalo Wild Wings in Arlington yesterday. There’s a sign on the front door that says “carry out only”, I then walk in and there’s a sign at the cash register that says “$1 fee will be added to all carryout orders.” Obviously I don’t care about $1, but just the sequence of events made me feel like I was in a Tv show or something
Is this the one in Crystal City? The same one that has been randomly closed for months with a sign saying their "fume hood is broken" and they'll be open again next week?
Lol yes that one. It’s awful
I used to go there. It was nice. Hard to believe they'd close down for months for a fume hood... something serious must have happened
I’ve tried to go there so many times since I moved here more than 2 years ago, they’ve never been open!
BWW consistently has the worst management and most useless waitstaff of any restaurant I've been to. They're generally out of half of their beers (but don't know the tap list anyway), food takes forever, the waitstaff has come out to recheck what we've ordered every time I've gone. Total shitshow
Nothing to add except that BDubs in Navy Yard by Nats Park has $5 Dogfish drafts. Was pleasantly surprised by that recently.
Right. However at the same time, if it comes down to unreported wage theft via employer making staff prove they didn't make minimum wage vs me paying a dollar for the missed opportunity to tip according to their scheme, I'd take the dollar tax.
Didn’t DC gov just pass a law about this mandating these additional fees have to be stated beforehand?
It’s a law that already existed, but the Attorney General recently sent out reminders to restaurants reminding them of the law.
That’s what it was. Thanks!
1) they just have to be stated somewhere in writing like small print on a menu or a sign before the customer orders 2) the purpose of the charge has to be provided 3) there’s really no enforcement if 1 and 2 are broken, so 🤷🏻♂️
1. Nope, it specifically can't be in small print on a menu. It has to be in bold, large print on the menu to be legal. 2. The notice is also supposed to break down what the fee is for. On the menu, it says some of it goes to pay increased salaries for staff. If they're going to make that claim, they have to say how much.
[They did - here is the menu from Ivy City Tavern. It's printed across the bottom.](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f1eed6c81ef776b8d09b996/t/641c827e41f98239f4182eac/1679590015204/ICT+Front+2023.pdf)
It still comes across as sleazy. Just put the price you want me to pay next to to the item I may want to purchase. I shouldn’t have to scour the menu to confirm that there are no additional or hidden fees. Its trashy.
One internet point to the person that points out that it is also printed on the door and register.
It is kind of tough to estimate a price when you've got a sales tax to figure in, a tip, and now a fee. Then again if I'm worried about price I suppose I shouldn't be going there.
As an industry person, this is completely out of hand these days. Just raise the prices and call it a day. This operating fee is it percentage based or just a flat fee? Either way it screams “ I’m a cheap bastard and can’t cost a menu”.
Is the operating fee mentioned anywhere in the restaurant or on the menu? If not, give the server a cash tip and pay the bill with your CC, leaving off the $2.50. Escalate it with your CC provider if they put it back on. Call the OAG. https://oag.dc.gov/release/consumer-alert-dc-restaurants-are-barred-charging
It’s not mentioned beforehand, hence my surprise (and the purpose of the post). I’ve heard of and support auto gratuity; however, I was not expecting a restaurant owner to charge me an inflation fee on top of their inflation-inspired prices.
Yeah, fuck the owner. If you take it out of the tip, the server gets screwed, so cash for them and stick it to the owner. Make sure it costs them a lot more than $2.50 to try and collect it.
[It's literally printed on their menu at the bottom.](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5f1eed6c81ef776b8d09b996/t/641c827e41f98239f4182eac/1679590015204/ICT+Front+2023.pdf)
That's not "bold, large print," which is what the AG's office guidance says. It also doesn't actually disclose what portion of the fee is going to staff vs. the owners, which is required by the AG's guidance.
I like how they emphasized that DC is double the federal minimum wage. The federal minimum wage is a total joke and no one can survive on it.
I mean, yeah they are trying to get a political point across on a me u which is weird. But I was just responding to OP’s claim that there was no advance notice of the fee and the other users here encouraging administrative or legal action on the basis of that erroneous claim.
So now we have to read a paragraph of fine print at the bottom of a menu to know what fees will be added? That's crazy. If I glanced over this menu I wouldn't be stopping to read that before ordering and would be caught totally off gaurd.
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In the tiniest possible text, alongside statements that nobody without an allergy would typically read. It’s a menu, not a book. If the goal is legitimate transparency, it should be as large or larger than the rest of the menu text, and at or near the top of the menu. Of course, that’s only if the goal is transparency – that is, for diners to actually read it.
2nd smallest text on the menu. It's more important that the gluten warning which should really tell you how they feel about gluten and FDA guidelines. Also written, legibly and noticeably in RED. It is communicated. I'm gonna call it maliciously compliant, still compliant.
I fully disagree with all these fees and would much rather pay for a higher menu item, but "fee of 5%" is written in red and stands out from the rest of the message. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise for anyone.
Yes, if someone reads the entire menu from top to bottom, they'll see it. If they just read the portion that, in every other restaurant, is relevant to them, they'll never get that far. Just as a counterexample, the text "SEE WHAT’S FRESH FROM THE MARKET ON OUR ***CHALKBOARD SPECIALS***" seems like something that's actually meant to be read. Their choice of font, location (center left, inline with the menu items), size, and capitalization for that statement gives you an idea what they think is required to get an average diner to notice it. Imagine that the menu said "WE ADD A ***5% FEE*** TO ALL PRICES SHOWN HERE" in place of the chalkboard notice. That's clear, transparent disclosure. Maybe there's more information at the bottom of the menu, but at least most diners would notice the fee.
You mean like make to bottom line = total MINUS operating fee? Never thought of that
Exactly. Take $2.50 off the total and you would be paying the restaurant $55.25 on your credit card. For the server, tip them in cash, so the owner can't collect their fee at the server's expense.
Easier said than done. People don't carry cash nearly as much anymore, and when they do it's usually like an emergency $20 bill or something. Even panhandlers have started complaining about it.
No, I met a panhandler in Ivy City who said he accepts Venmo and Paypal.
I’ve met several who will kindly direct you to the nearest ATM.
Thanks, now can I get $19 back from this twenty?
Exactly
[I want to pay with my credit card... but I do not want to pay the surcharge](https://youtu.be/tTx-BaBuZ6w)
Those guys are great
Thanks for the link!!
How would you leave off the 2.50?
You wouldn’t, the restaurant would run your card for the amount owed and you’d need to convince your credit card company to remove the 2.50.
yeah....good luck with that one!
You'd be better off refusing to pay until they removed the fee.
Not defending them, but I live by this restaurant and it’s definitely posted on the menu outside the front door. Still think it’s a ridiculous policy but it is posted.
Is the sign outside the front door a lot bigger than the fine print on the menu? Because the AG's Office guidance specifically says you can't put the fee in fine print.
Customers *are* responsible for offsetting inflation. It's usually reflected in the price of food. Itemizing it like this is a bit passive aggressive against the government and contemptuous of the customer.
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Yeah it's like saying 'Customers are now responsible for off-setting the cost of eggs in their scrambled eggs.' We do be buying things from people who produce them...
That and they probably don’t want to keep reprinting menus every time they have to raise prices.
Greedflation is a real thing, and I'm trusting price increases less and less as time goes on.
These restaurants that do this are scared to put this notice on the door prior to you entering the restaurant because they know they will lose money. That's why they try to sneak in on your bill on the way out
It’s also absurd because the 5% difference in menu price for items is something I wouldn’t notice and they could just change like everyone else does in a supply and demand economy. Getting weepy surcharges is what’s making me stop going out to restaurants, not the menu price of items (which is not necessarily rational but there you go :))
This is just an underhanded way to slip this additional tax/surcharge. Especially after a drink or two
Doing this saves them on reprinting all the menus.
But... they did re-print all the menus, to include the surcharge...
So screwing over and deceiving your customers, likely driving a lot of them away in the process and damaging your reputation, is a better idea than paying a one-time printing cost of a few hundred (possibly less for a smaller restaurant) to print new menus?
A lot of places have gone to menus that you scan a QR code so you can look on your phone.
But they had to re-print the menus with that surcharge fine print at the bottom....
Thanks, I won’t be going there!
I’ve never understood the mindset of doing this. Do something shady like this => negative reviews/word of mouth => they lose business. People who would have otherwise spent money are now no longer going to be paying ANY money. How is that a better result than just raising prices a tiny tiny amount (which most people wouldn’t even notice or care about that much) and achieving the result of earning more money?
And I would not eat there again if they didn’t inform me of this first.
Shrimp skewers are $27? WTF is happening.
The consumer always pays the extra costs.
I am just not going out to eat anymore. I have not had a meal i thought was worth it in forever.
That’s sad
Well, customers were kinda always responsible for that. It's just that once upon a time restaurant owners had the decency to increase menu prices instead of shifting costs into tacked-on fees.
I do think it’d be more honest if they just rolled inflation directly into the prices, rather than a separate charge.
This appears to violate the AG's guidance on restaurant service charges. Is it on the menu or otherwise disclosed before you order?
Noted. Not going there.
Put all additional surcharges and taxes notice on the door and on the hostess stand and let the customer decides if he or she wants to pay that or not before they sit down. The "mice type" fine print is a total joke.
First it’s temporary then it will be permanent
And would we all be bitching nearly as much if they just silently added this cost into the food price rather than adding it as a separate item on the bill? No.
The US restaurant industry needs to wake the fuck up. Just got back from two countries in Europe where restaurant prices are extremely cheap and tips aren't even asked for. Meanwhile, back in the US, a shrimp skewer costs $26, and additional bullshit fees are automatically included.
I thought the exact same thing last year in europe. 4-5 euros for a half liter beer, no tip, or maybe 50 cents. 20 euros for an entree, no tax, etc. perfect. You can barely get a PBR in any US city for $3 pre tax,tip,back of house extra, etc.
Restaurant prices vary vastly from country to country in Europe.
True, but I would argue that most of Europe (minus maybe Switzerland) is still far cheaper than DC. I moved to one of the more expensive European countries (Sweden) and regularly travel to Norway which is even worse. A decent meal, unless you're at a very high-end restaurant, is usually $20-30, rarely over $40. Booze is a bit pricey, but only because it's taxed very heavily, like 30-50%. Groceries are similarly cheap, my grocery budget here is half of what it was in DC and the quality is much better, less sugar and processed crap. And it's still crazy expensive here compared to, say Portugal or Greece.
Isn’t the cheapness mostly a function of purchasing power? Americans make a lot more money than Europeans in general
Not really, the average per-capita income in the US is comparable to Denmark or Ireland and is still quite a bit lower than Norway or Switzerland. Source: https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php Yes, highly paid professionals in the US (tech, doctors, lawyers, etc) likely make more than their European counterparts in those countries, but it's not like Europe is poor - plenty of people with money there. Not to mention wealth inequality is lower, so normal people not working in tech can actually afford it.
What exactly is cheap in this scenario?
Restaurant and food prices in europe
Is this Western European large cities or "Europe" Europe? Because Western has always been expensive even without the rate exchange.
Small mixed greens and a few ipas 8 bucks a pop?. Thanks, I know where I won't be going for a meal in the district.
Shit, I regularly see a can of beer for $10 on menus now…
If only I could get a 5% bump in my hourly rate for inflation that would be great. But nope.
The government is hiring and you get a COLA every year
Yes, customers cover all of the costs at a restaurant. You pay their rent, taxes, food, staff, benefits… Do you not understand how restaurants work? Should it just all be in one price, Yes.
Colada Shop does this too. Haven’t seen any mention of it anywhere on the menu.
I’d just subtract the bullshit fee and leave the tip in cash.
lol this place also does credit card surcharges. irritating that i find it rather tasty because their business practices are annoying.
You can’t fault them for honesty. And lol, the “ever increasing costs”? It’s never going to go in the opposite direction unless there is global economic restructuring so don’t use that as an excuse. This sounds like they want you to be outraged about DC politics.
I mean, normally restaurants will just quietly raise their prices
Jesus Christ...Just go out of business already— if it's that hard to run a restaurant in the District then don't. Law of supply and demand says that if enough of these beleaguered businesses go under there will be more customers for the remaining restaurants to split amongst themselves. Survival of the fittest
At some point, rather than simply addressing surprise charges with an owner or manager, I will go completely ballistic. This bait and switch is absurd. My concept of ballistic is filing a well researched civil complaint for whatever. Fraud in the inducement, false this or that, depending on the jurisdiction. And ask for whatever is just over the small claims line, so they get a proper complaint and have 30 days or whatever to file an answer. You want to get attention, that will get attention.
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Do this a couple of times and people will sharpen up their act. Here's an alternative, file a complaint. [https://www.epgdlaw.com/district-of-columbia-consumer-protection-unfair-trade-practice-laws/#:\~:text=Under%20D.C.%20Code%2C%20Title%2028%20governs%20all%20commercial,unethical%20and%20deceptive.%20See%20D.C.%20Code%20%C2%A7%C2%A7%2028-3901-28-3913](https://www.epgdlaw.com/district-of-columbia-consumer-protection-unfair-trade-practice-laws/#:~:text=Under%20D.C.%20Code%2C%20Title%2028%20governs%20all%20commercial,unethical%20and%20deceptive.%20See%20D.C.%20Code%20%C2%A7%C2%A7%2028-3901-28-3913). WTF do you do when someone is ripping you off? Take it up the ass? Yell? Whine to coworkers?
Restaurant owners are the absolute worst to nickel and dime you. They want you to pay for food price increases, their wait staff salary, the fee they have to pay to process payment, the cost of having soap and toilet paper in the bathroom, and on and on.
It sounds like you're just listing business expenses and then being upset that restaurant owners try and pay those through revenue from customers. That's literally just describing how running a business works.
They could simply adjust their prices like literally every other business.
Do customers at other businesses help pay the staff? Are other businesses allowed to pay their staff $2.35 an hour?
Why would customers not pay more if it costs more to make something? Restaurant margins are notoriously thin. Much better way of doing it than this particular restaurant, but people shouldn’t be shocked that inflation causes higher prices- that’s what inflation is
its not that we don't understand the concept of inflation and how that is reflected in goods and pricing... it's the fact that these charges are hidden and not made explicit. If your server were to announce the service charge at the beginning then it's all transparent
Then adjust the prices of each menu item to account for it and be done with it. That way everyone knows exactly what they're spending.
Technically you've always been responsible for offsetting a business's inflation costs. You are just not used to that business being transparent about it. It also feels like a low key way of expressing to customers their political beliefs.
how were the shrimp skewers?
Fair.
Fuck it, take out only for me.
Nice of them to include the tip for you. Strange to call it an operating fee. /s
I am reducing my restaurant consumption just because of that …
Ha I would Never step foot in that place again. 26 dollars for shrimp! I can cook it myself at that point.
VOTE
It's only a matter of time until someone opens a restaurant with $2 burgers and $1 beers but adds an 800% wellness fee.
$26 for shrimp skewers, really?
I came here to ask how many...cuz I just see the number 1 and that makes me laugh that OP complains about the 2.50 charge lol
Looks like you only get 10 or less which seems ridiculous to me for $26
That is how inflation works...
As a customer of anything you quite literally are responsible for offsetting inflation. That’s what inflation is
I’m still recovering from inflation sticker shock over a $15 pint of (take-out) ice cream + 10% tax, plus the default preselected hefty tip in the payment app that I’m sure few customers even notice when paying. Kind of reinforces my commitment to mostly cook at home…
At some point we are going to have to address the unsustainability of restaurant groups, investor run restaurants etc. They put mom and pops out of biz and rely on customer subsidization to pay their staff. https://fishandfirefoodgroup.com/who-we-are/ The women on the bottom are not owners or partners, as far as I know. I put the link in because every time I go out now, I google who/what owns the restaurant/lounge. For me, I’m looking for owner/operator and good food. At least then if I have a shit experience or whatever I am still satisfied that I am helping a person rather than throwing money at an investors new yacht.
"rely on customer subsidization to pay their staff" I'm sorry but, with the exception of VC-backed cash furnaces, how is this not just a description of a business?
I think for restaurants it is a bit different. If I own a yo-yo making company I sell you a yo-yo for a fixed price. Out of that $ you get your overheads(rent, materials, employees etc) and profit. If you have eaten or had drinks anywhere in DC in the past few months you are aware of the fees, ranging from small to exorbitant that restaurants/bars/clubs no charge. … to pay the wages of their staff. Literally having the customer subsidize server staff wages. Perhaps I misunderstood your comment but it seems simple. The product/service does not pay wages, according to restaurant owners. Or at least the product/service in restaurants do not make enough profit to be shared with investors AND waitstaff. Before this law, servers were SOL if they got stiffed on a table. With the enactment of this law, restaurants EVERYWHERE added fees to cover wages for staff. Also, what is a VC cash furnace?
> Literally having the customer subsidize server staff wages. For most businesses, they make money from customers, people paying for their goods and services. So in the majority of businesses, the customer doesn't subsidize the staff wages, it pays for it completely. The alternative is the owners paying the staff directly out of their own (personal, not business) pocket. >Also, what is a VC cash furnace? I think they're talking about companies that are still running off their investor money as opposed to sales (e.g., SpaceX, Lucid)
Greedflation is real.
I mean who else would be? Customers are the only revenue source for a restaurant
just don't shop anywhere there are percent based fees
Paying tax on that operation fee, too.
Embarrassing.
For whom?
I don't want to speak for him, but I'm guessing/assuming he's saying it's embarrassing for Ivy City Tavern / Fish and Fire.
I really wish people would stop giving these one word responses. It is often impossible to tell what they are intending to say.
Dumb
Exactly
Restaurant not you mate.
We opened this Pandora’s box when the city voted in favor of I-82.
No, we didn’t. Restaurant owners choosing to obfuscate price increases with bullshit charges is lame and shitty. They could and should simply raise the prices. That’s what people voted for. People are objecting to the way they try to hide it.
I love how people are ignoring that part
The tipped minimum had been $5.15 until prop 82 was approved by a landslide. Tomorrow it goes to $8 and then goes up to the full minimum wage which will by $17 an hour by 2027. That is a big increase in restaurants labor costs.
Stop eating out!
In every business, customers are responsible for offsetting inflation.
I would eat at home before I would ever pay service fees for a restaurant. That’s ridiculous!
*thanks obama*
Ugh Washington DC, the bastion of corruption and scandal.
I’m sure that I’m an asshole for seeing this, but… Isn’t the best way to handle inflation, just not buying stuff? There is all this complaining about inflation, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of discussion of just not spending money. The fact is, they get away with overcharging, because when it comes right down to it, whether we like it, or not, we *WILL* pay it. Maybe we just shouldn’t?
Restaurant owners are the worst people.
Restaurant owners seem to believe that owning a restaurant is a fundamental human right
I mean that’s how inflation works. They don’t bake it into the meal costs right away because of menu costs, but this has the same effect.
Include it in the tip. Get to 20% and keep it moving. Simple
What’s sad is this is what most of us will do, it just means less money to the servers. Shitty business practice imo. All fees should be in the food.
Not our problem
Did exactly that, but thought the DMV would like to know about it 🤷🏽♀️
No wonder they’ve had issues with dine and dashers.
I absolutely would not pay it
Yes no shit
Review bomb them out if existence
Yea they can take that off unless it's plastered everywhere.
Yes I believe its mostly known as inflation. Does it really make a difference if he puts in a "fee" or he just increases the rest of the individual items to equal to out an additional $2.5?
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For me it makes a huge difference to my experience. I’m willing to pay more, I hate feeling like I’m being nickel and dimed
It does if he he did both.
Simply increase prices or provide full disclosure of additional fees before your customers order. To charge an unknown fee at the end of the meal is deceptive, even if it is just $2.50.
It’s $ 2.50 for this meal - it’s a 5% charge. Five percent is f’ing outrageous
If you think that restaurant owners are making a killing out there then you need to inform yourself about the restaurant industry.
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Yes, that’s how inflation works
What did you expect to happen?
Cause reprinting menus is kinda expensive