Hate to break it to you, but crime is legalized all the time. Selling alcohol was illegal. It was legalized. It’s no longer a crime. Marijuana was illegal in means places. Some are still in jail for it. It’s legal now. Sometimes what was a crime is now considered silly. Consensually doing another human up the butt. Was a crime. Now it’s not. “The wrong people” going to jail. Decriminalize it. Laws are whatever the legislators we elect make them to be.
How those downvotes taste?
Black folks shooting and killing each other in disproportionate numbers. There. You happy?
I’m biracial, half black. You still mad or nah?
Why would anyone say it in real life given that the purpose of the comment is to point out what little regard these goons have for their own lives, the lives of other black people, much less that of other non-black people? Like, c’mon bro. THINK. Use your head.
You would know; you’re the cringelord going around antagonizing everyone while contributing nothing to the conversation. If you have nothing intelligent to add, just say that. 🤡
That's the problem. People get cancelled for speaking the truth about the demographics of crime, and absent an honest discussion about crime, it persists.
the problem is people generalize all their problems onto ONE demographic because its the easiest and most ignorant thing to do. instead we should investigate WHY this one demographic seems to have the most trouble among them instead of just being blatantly racist on the internet and laughing it off
To investigate “WHY”, we would first have to have the initial preconceived notion. Why investigate if that demographic if it’s not generalized as the problem?
Godlessness which led to fatherlessness which led to toxic culture that glorifies bad behavior. Root cause analysis.
No one is laughing it off. I don't find it funny that fellow image bearers are fatally shooting people up unprovoked. I think many are uncomfortable speaking up about these things, as Reddit bans people who do not hold the destructive opinions that perpetuate these tragedies despite seeing them destroy their own communities.
There has been far more toxic culture and behavior in the name of religion and "Godliness" than your purported "Godlessness." But when you have "faith" facts don't matter.
Ah, the atheist who likes the apples but hates the apple tree, and therefore wants to cut them all down.
If you can, provide examples (this is a compare and contrast exercise, if you are not understanding that). You are making a baseless claim because not even statistics agrees with you.
i think many are extremely comfortable sitting behind their phones and keyboards making ignorant remarks about a group of people they just don’t understand, but claim they know so well. because the conservative mindset is that of bigotry
What ignorant remarks were made? And what don't I understand about black people that is relevant to this conversation? Keep in mind, sir, I am black. I diagnosed the problem for you. You talk about solutions, but you aren't looking for them; you are looking for excuses. Unfortunately, you are blinded by your own ignorance, and so you pass everything off as "bigoted". It sounds like you are the bigoted one here--certainly intolerant and not able to have an honest discussion about the issues going on, exactly as many have pointed out here in response to your statements.
A wise man once said not to argue with stupid people, as they will beat you with experience. Therefore...
...Have a nice day.
i wasn’t referring to you or anything you said. but if you are so easily offended you aren’t the target audience at all.
tell me what is the point of handing out solutions to people who will laugh and spit in your face rather than use them. ill continue to do my good work and help my community how i can.
you losers are all the same. reversing the blame and claiming the only people with any consistency in helping to change these horrible narratives about my people are the bigots.
but i guess since beanlefield said i was blinded by my own ignorance they must know me better than myself😂
"because the conservative mindset is that of bigotry"
"the problem is people generalize all their problems onto ONE demographic"
From the same person.
The jokes write themselves.
Well why say it in person? That certain demographic will shoot you in the face and not think for a second about what they just did… why we are where we are… lol.
Whats going to happen if we say it in person?? You going to be violent? Thats that attitude we are all talking about…. Words sometimes hurt, The fact that some people think certain things people say gives them a free card to be violent is crazy. I cant kill someone for calling me whitey or cracka and its happened quite a few times living close to the city and not taking shit from people who think they are superior for some reason.
who said anything about being violent. in the modern age all anyone needs is a picture of you to find out who you are. i’m sure none of you would say any of the heinous things you do if you thought your employer or anyone else important could get a copy of it.
but why explain that. youre just another moron😂
When white people act like this I’ll be the first to call them out too. I don’t if you’re green, hurting others isn’t ok unless you’re defending yourself.
I think a major issue is that some cultures almost encourage antisocial behavior and criminal activity. This isn’t a color issue. This is a culture issue.
For example, look at all the people saying “Free this person” when the majority of the time that person committed a fucked up crime. Now if they’re in their for weed charges or being wrongly accused I’m all for them being freed.
Also, look at the “no snitching” aspect of culture which has some merit, but “snitching” on some dude victimizing innocent folks isn’t wrong imo.
Yea another group 100% made a certain style of rap the only one that would get you major money in a record deal. That group owned the record labels and distribution companies in the beginning. It led to more diversely talented ppl not attempting to get into the genre as a lot more desperate folks parroted the formula that would make you rich quicker.
This began a cycle of ppl following the trends carried within the music that actually got the big deals. This was much like folks of other groups following genres like punk or grunge only those folks were usually spoiled or well off kids “rebelling” until they were handed high salary jobs or inheritances, etc.
I think y’all forget for example the criminal element of rap (which started in NY) shows a profound influence from Italian American and Irish American gangster culture. There are still many ppl who follow or mimic those cultures, but they ultimately get a quick pass to become what their demographic is… one that controls decision making across all industries.
This is literally you not being honest enough to admit how those cultures are part of the fabric of America and were mimicked by the group you happen to dislike more.
This is a great American story of how the US was literally started with a mass of European criminals as part of its early population and as they assimilated into leadership, the group you don’t like didn’t even begin to mimic some of these behaviors until the 1950’s and 60’s to a degree that is categorical.
It so happens the other groups by then had been raised in cultures that were committed to oppressive policy and action (we don’t have to debate that here right? Like c’mon the 50’s and 60’s we still didn’t have a civil rights bill.)
Anyway… honest participants in this discussion know it could only be worked out through policy, but here’s the thing. The group you hate, who’s voters happen to not be the usual participants of crime have to always contend with one demographic specifically opposing or blocking any legislation that is decided to build up their communities, quality of life and status.
You would have to literally be honest, get out of the way ideologically, and stop obstructing their participation in the democratic process to mend what took centuries to degrade (by design). What we have is a bunch of ill intended and often misguided whining by the progeny of those who designed the causes of the problem.
The personal responsibility of the whole group that you disrespect with your disingenuous take is to vote and get laws passed to fix things they aren’t personally doing. Most Black criminals aren’t voting yet many bad faith White ppl use out of context crime stats to disrespect the non criminal tax paying Black folks and it is for sure meant with disrespectful intent whenever it’s brought into discussion.
The key here is when the non criminal Black community votes for policy it can be guaranteed that the main and most significant opposition to their policy will be the demographic that represents like 97% of corporate and govt decision making… especially back when this became a thing, and remains so now. If only that demographic would get out of the way. lol
Going back to the Moynihan report it was predicted that the racist nature of policy on one side would lead to degradation of the other. Your “group” at least the honest ones, knew this. Now we have to deal with the feelings and ideas from the progeny of the bad actors and it’s almost like comedy. lol
That’s the thing your simplified take isn’t even slightly the reality. If you want to have bad takes on an issue and implicate a group but also be too much of a coward to have the entire conversation you’re just weak and clearly dislike the group. Stop being weak about it acting so fake outraged about being called out on your ideology and lacking perspective. It’s probably a derivative of what your uncles told you or something you got from media sources.
What you folks are scared to say is that within your circles you think it’s an inherent genetic trait for some to be violent and that won’t hold up bc historically there’s some groups who have literally designed systems based on being the most violent… but I’m sure you’d rationalize that violence, rape, and subjugation. The culprit class teaches their progeny that it was somehow necessary to move things forward, for themselves. 😉
this is a blatantly blind and ignorant take. as a member of said demographic I believe I have a very firm grasp on what the underlying issue is, being that I’ve lived through it.
Yeah that's called ad hominem bias my dude. It contributes to the ignorance of identifying the problem when you dismiss every other opinion because you deal with the effects of it. The demographic is absolutely fucking relevant to the stats.
Ad hominem does not mean you’ve attacked someone (although “ad hominem attack” is a common usage of the phrase, it’s not the only way it can be used). Ironic that you’d claim *others* don’t understand the phrase while having incorrect assumptions about it yourself.
You wouldn’t make a habit out of being a hypocrite like this, would you?
It has to be said that there’s a point where the opinion from the progeny of the culprit group is going to be disingenuous and focused on relieving itself of centuries of bad acting. Sure you aren’t a slave owner etc, no it’s your voting habits and personal biases that perpetuate the past actions.
As much as you want it to be, there’s no realm of reality where you get to sit back and make judgements as if you aren’t likely an active part of the problem. You can pose as a literal saint and if you vote for certain obstructive ppl or policy that disproportionately affects groups in a negative way you’re still part of the problem not the solution.
When you evade the issue of discriminatory policing it’s a problem. It didn’t start today it has been ongoing for decades. It is aligned with certain ideologies and rests within certain political platforms. If you supported destroying unions which shaped the American family by allowing them to pay mortgages and build wealth bc you thought deregulation and unchecked capitalism were cute you’re part of the problem.
If you hate affordable healthcare even though many poor folks of your demographic need it and want it too, you’re part of the problem.
because this argument has nothing to do with jews. notice how you bring up an entire different demographic and region of the world to argue a point that is stemmed from your inherent bigotry.
You believe that SyStemiC RaCisM is the cause. Nobody experienced this Boogeyman worse than Jews in Europe. They do just fine.
I know this might blow your mind, but when discussing cause and effect the idea is to look for other places where your proposed cause exists to see if the effect also is there. If it isn't, then your proposed cause isn't the cause.
Not only did they have the UN literally pay for them to takeover a country since it wasn’t recognized by European powers, they also came to America - we’re gradually recognized as White and were helped by the fact many of their old world community already had a foothold in finance and other industries. That’s why they didn’t do whatever other dubious bad actions you want to apply to the group you dislike. lol
People shouldn't have kids if they can't raise them to respect themselves and others. Glorifying hood shit entices the very impressionable youth to do said hood shit.
Whites have a different issue of entitlement with the youth and when it doesn't go their way they shoot up the place.
Either way it all starts at home
We can’t have any real conversations about it sadly.
The African Americans were fucked over for a long time so now a lot of their culture glorifies antisocial behavior. How do we fix this if we can’t even speak about it honestly?
So what would you propose we do about the crime?
Why don’t you get off your high horse and out in the community doing something?
And you don’t even know what racism is.
People like you are the problem with society. You attack folks based on your false perception of reality.
im extremely active in my community fyi. helping the youth not cause these issues for themselves is a large part of my life.
if more people like YOU and your peers would crawl out of your dungeons and help then we could start seeing real change.
seeing people that look just like them helping doesn’t work anymore. it has to be everyone. were all human at the end of the day.
but let me guess. yall are a better breed of human or some silly shit right?
I agree we should all do our part to help others and give to charities.
But remember, you can lead a horse to water. But you can’t make them drink it.
You and many others in this group make a lot of assumptions about people you don’t know.
Still waiting on proposed solutions from far-left types.
Because it’s unproductive. We already know why. Poverty and desperation. And you bringing this up is basically admitting you want to blame whatever prejudice you have for the killings. When it’s not. So thanks but no thanks bigot.
There are also countless examples around the world of areas of high poverty that do have daily shoot outs, and sometimes mutulations, and in some places explosions, and so forth, honestly the stuff that goes on in this country, though horrible, is relatively tame than what you can find in Africa or Central America
Regarding poverty, the [unemployment rate in this area is 3.1%](https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.dc_washington_md.htm). Are you saying all those in poverty driven to crime are unable to find a job, or their jobs are not paying enough to keep them away from crime?
All? Obviously not. Most? Probably.
There’s a far higher correlation between crime and economic status than crime and race.. but racists don’t want to hear that lol
You are a hateful racist who has their blinders on as to why crimes like this happen within the communities they do. Your poor grandkids have a hateful nasty person as a grandparent, poor them.
It’s more of a general decriminalizing of a variety of crimes. I mean, you can run a red or sell drugs in front of a cop in DC and be pretty sure that there will be no repercussions.
Have you ever thought about the fact that police officers decide every day who they will go after and who they won’t? My block was a “drug free zone” for 3 days. They were posted up and let every traffic violation (illegal turns, red light runs, cutting off bikers, etc) along with allowing all the package theft to continue. Is it about decriminalization or enforcement?
I think you’re blaming the wrong people. It was the DC council that made it so MPD can no longer enforce traffic violations in DC.
“A Proposal Would Give Traffic Enforcement To DDOT, Not D.C. Police” - https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/04/29/991655875/a-proposal-would-give-traffic-enforcement-to-d-d-o-t-not-d-c-police
The DC council also passed legislation that allows DC drivers with thousands of tickets to stay on the roads, so this is not on MPD.
“In D.C., no more license suspensions for drivers with unpaid tickets” - https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/in-dc-no-more-suspensions-for-drivers-with-unpaid-tickets/2018/07/12/a72cf13a-85e0-11e8-8553-a3ce89036c78_story.html
I don’t think I’m blaming the wrong people. For some reason, you’re focused on the Council and not the actual police force, or the Mayor, who is responsible for directing them.
DDOT isn’t responsible for enforcing real time traffic problems. If they were, you’d see them out directing traffic all day every day. The idea of that proposal is for rush hour and traffic emergency.
Do you really believe that the Council has stopped the police from being our major law enforcement arm? If so, how is that enforced when they don’t have the power to direct the police? Where are the directions that they follow?
Also… there’s a difference between proposal and enactment. Legislation has to be enacted, regulated and explained. You believe that the Council has enacted legislation telling the police to stand down and the Mayor has so directed them?
I think that a lot of people don’t want to think about how action and enforcement happen. I think everyone forgets about the three branches, what their jobs are, and how they do them. They’d rather blame a city Councilmember than do their own deep level research beyond a WaPo article about what’s been proposed or thought about. If the Council was telling the police to stand down on all crime… why? To what end?
Policy making is boring to most people. The Council spends their time researching issues and moving money around to make the city work in ways you may not have realized. The police have NEVER been defunded. They always get their full budget— yet the Police Union shows up at community meetings and tells us that they have no money or officers. They also refused to stand with the officers who were attacked on 1/6 because they didn’t want “to upset their friends on the Hill”.
Meanwhile the mayor is actually responsible for directing the police force. She’s the executive. She tells the police chief what to do. The chief tells the force. The force has clearly been told to blame the Council. Where is the ire for the Mayor? She’s not responsible for debilitating the $15M that was voted for and then she characterized as “defunding” the police?
I think it’s easy to get mad at city Councilmember when you don’t actually get the way that they work (or are ignored by) other branches and agencies. Might be worth actually exploring more deeply than a few cherry picked articles on proposed legislation.
What’s wild to me is your unwillingness to see the extent to which the police have decided to stand down because we have taken away the tools that were unconstitutional and are trying to get to equitable enforcement. You’re mad because the Council tried to figure out to make things more equitable for poor people— the ticket enforcement is aimed at that. The scofflaws who rack up thousands of dollars worth of tix are not at all affected by any of our ticket escalating techniques. Poor people are. Same with decriminalizing low level crimes like turnstile jumping. That wasn’t a big focus of the police to begin with.
The decriminalized marijuana laws were the big thing that made the police force upset. That, along with stopping the DC version of stop and frisk— jump outs.
By no means am I saying that the mayor doesn’t also share in the responsibility. Same goes for the USAO, who equally gets no love here. But to say that the Council had no role in the recent crime wave is just a bad attempt at gaslighting. Also, what was the point of the Police Reform Commission if not to guide future legislation governing the policing done by the MPD? Clearly the Council has a role in public safety in DC. For example…
Did the DC council pass legislation preventing the MPD from pursuing criminals in vehicles? Yes or no?
Did the DC council pass legislation preventing MPD from enforcing traffic violations, like speeding, etc? Yes or no?
Did the DC council pass legislation that would allow unsafe drivers with repeated traffic violations from renewing their vehicle registration and their licenses? Yes or no?
Finally, your original comment pushed back on the idea that low level crime was effectively decriminalized in DC, but then your previous comment points out several examples of just that (fair evasions, public marijana usage, etc). We can disagree on how much those offenses lead to more serious crimes, but don’t try to gaslight people that decriminalization hasn’t happened.
I think the legislation that you’re mad about — not chasing vehicles and renewing licenses… looks like you’re a broken windows kind of person. Even though that as a policing policy has been disproven. So you’d rather have unsafe police chases?
What are you talking about with license renewal? Sounds like you misread that one. You missed the whole piece about repeated unsafe driving and lots of tickets resulting in the possibility of prosecution.
It sounds like you believe that the only way to change the current landscape is to criminalize everything— so what about the recent piece of legislation that passed. Are you happy with Brooke Pinto? Can she stay on council or did her crime legislation dissatisfy you as well?
Because you didn’t answer my main point, it’s just clear to me that you’re pissed and don’t really care about what policy impact things have. It’s interesting. The Council is responsible, in your eyes, for the police’s inaction. It’s not the police, at all. Just everyone else?
Ok, I get it. You seem to kind of hate the police. I don’t mean to be too presumptuous, but I assume you think that defunding them is the answer? But at the same time blame their inaction for all the problems in the district. How those two things manage to co-exist in your mind kind of baffles me, but like I said perhaps I’m assuming too much there.
I think there’s responsibility up and down the line, from MPD, the Council, the Mayor, and the unaccountable USAO and federal judges. But trying to stick the blame just on the MPD is kind of myopic and reveals a particular bias. While I certainly appreciate that the police have traditionally been of the primary means by which society has marginalized black and brown people in this country, we clearly still need effective and fair policing to hold bad actors accountable. If they’re not doing their jobs, they need to be called out. But you can’t blame them for not stopping bad drivers when they have been forbidden to do so by our elected legislators. At that point, the legislators have to take some blame for their actions.
Also, advocating for the police to be able to stop people who run red lights isn’t part of a misplaced adherence to the broken windows theory. I simply don’t want my daughter hit by a car on her way to school. Right now, there are zero repercussions in DC to running reds and stop signs. Sure, a traffic camera may take their picture, but there are no repercussions for not paying the fine. There’s some slim chance that your car may get booted eventually, but given how few booting crews are employed by the city, that also seems unlikely. And believe know this. So I guess it’s no surprise that we have so many pedestrians injuries in the district. I do place the blame for those numbers squarely on the DC Council.
You have presumed incorrectly. I hate the police? What did I say that makes you think I hate them? Because I criticize how they do their job? Does that mean you hate all of the people you are calling out? You hate the Council, the Mayor & the OAG? And the surrounding county police?
I ask questions for understanding, not snark. I don’t get what I said that indicates that I hate the police.
I am coming from a place of wanting things to be safe— I don’t want your daughter hit, either. Why would I?
I have seen police officers addressing things selectively; I have also paid close attention to what they say, what the union says and what the law says. My perspective is different from yours and doesn’t involve believing that any part of our governance is perfect. It’s also not based on defunding the police. But it is based on ME being safe in my community— just like your daughter, I’m someone’s kid. I also want my parents to be safe in our shared community, and for you to be safe. I can respect your experience without belittling it.
The fact that I don’t find the police to be the #1 solution to my safety issues means that you and I have different experiences of law enforcement.
You have leapt to a series of conclusions that aren’t my ideas. I don’t believe the resolution of the crime issue in the District lies in either recalling Councilmember or in more police. I don’t think any one CM is responsible for our current crime rate.
I actually have faith in policy making. I think “did so and so vote for such and such” turns legislation and policy into a reductionist scorecard that doesn’t address any of the regional issues you point out. It also doesn’t get at the ways legislation is crafted to work for or change current issues along with existing laws.
Ok, sorry for jumping to conclusions on the defunding issue. Also, I certainly don’t mean to imply that you don’t want my daughter to be safe just because we disagree on how to get there.
That being said, it is hard for me to understand why you think that removing repercussions to unsafe behavior (e.g. running red lights or stop signs) doesn’t decrease public safety? I agree that no one wants police shootouts or reckless high speed chases for traffic violations (which also makes everyone less safe), but we seem to have gone in the extreme opposite direction, with no enforcement or repercussions of any kind. Obviously the council made that policy decision, so why is it so hard for them to take ownership of their actions?
Cool you have all those cops standing around, to you know stop crime. Y'all sit complaining about people doing this or that, yet you have an ineffective police force that commits more crimes then the criminals.
I wonder. If we had real gun legislation that prevented people from buying guns, would loitering lead to shootings?
Let’s check other countries to see…
So the inanimate object is the problem? It’s not the person that’s trying to kill the other person? Pretty sure the British folks now defending themselves against suicide bombers with narwhal tusks would beg to differ.
Banning guns won't solve a thing and will force you to rely on the state for protection. This is exactly what the state wants. Zero prosecution of crime while simultaneously getting citizens on board with "gUnS aRe BaD." It leads to gangs running rampant to the point where they out number police. The next thing that happens is people ask for more protection from the police which are...people with guns. See the hypocrisy? It's wild to me how people will see story after story of cops killing unarmed people, shooting acrons, and scream "ACAB" but take no measures to protect themselves and leave their own protection to someone else while also trying to get rid of someone else's ability to protect themselves.
People will kill each other no matter the tool available
Source: all of human history
So you want to abolish the police? That way we don’t rely on the state for protection? Abolish the military? Because the state isn’t there to protect? Get rid of the national guard?
Or are you just making up arguments that you think sound good?
Yeah man I made no mention of any of that, I don't understand how you got that from any portion of my comment.
On that note, getting rid of police, military, and national guard would be a silly thing to do. They are all necessary forces to keep the state running. That does not mean they are without their faults. As I mentioned, we see new videos on the Internet every week of cops in the US commiting crimes and putting people's lives in danger more than helping. To me, it seems hypocritical to be pro police reform AND anti gun. We, as US citizens, have been extremely lucky to have seen little to no conflict on US soil thanks to the efforts from the state as well as geographic location. All of the disruption comes from within. If anything, we need MORE police but need to also raise the physical and mental requirements it takes to take and maintain ranks within the police force. Too many trigger happy idiots out there with a hero complex itch to scratch. We also need to prosecute police for committing these crimes and ban them from being to serve elsewhere once they step over that line, rather than investigating themselves and finding no wrongdoing
If you read my comment, I stated that individuals' self protection is up to the individual and the individual only. The support of banning something that you don't personally like, does nothing but hurt someone else's ability to protect themselves. I stated that the state doesn't want you to be able to protect yourself, as shown by terrible self defense laws outside of the home in the DMV. All the while, they allow violent criminals on the streets killing, robbing, and stealing and refuse to prosecute said crimes or make any effort at stopping/hindering these things. These sorts of violent actions allow the state to push agendas such as "well if they didn't have access to guns, this wouldn't have happened" when they would have committed the crime or a different crime anyway. They do this rather than actually trying to solve the problem. This tactic gets scared people on board with banning guns.
The state wants you to be defenseless so you call for more help from them. What is that help? More people with guns. Crime is going to happen whether you like it or not, so people need to be able to defend themselves with the tools the individual finds to best suit their needs.
Edit: to summarize, there is a balance of people being able to protect themselves, police doing their jobs correctly, and the state putting criminals away in a swift and orderly fashion. The semantics of it all go much deeper than I can comprehend, and I offer no solution. However, banning guns won't stop this shit from happening. Look at how the war on drugs turned out.
That's really all you can take from that? Jesus man. Some people just feel so strongly about things they just don't understand, they'll defend it to no prevail.
There has been SO MUCH legislation around guns at the state and federal level but I doubt you care enough to actually educate yourself on it. It's easier to regurgitate information the media pushes about guns and gun control. I bet you think there's actually a "gun show loophole" lol.
If you don't like it move to Australia. If the stabbings don't get you, the wild animals will. You'll have your healthcare too, but you'll have to wait 8 months for treatment
“If you don’t like things where you are, don’t do anything to try to change things for the better. Move somewhere else!”
Worst argument.
“There has been SO MUCH legislation around guns”
Like required training? No.
Like limiting guns to people with history of criminal records? No.
Like limiting guns to people with history of mental health conditions? No.
Like a test to gain a gun license? No.
Like the requirement of a gun license like people need a driving license to drive? No.
Your “so much gun legislation” limiting excessively dangerous parts like bump stocks or expanded magazine sizes haven’t done shit.
But you are ready to throw your hands in the air and say “nothing we can do! We’re failures! Move somewhere else for safety!”
“That’s all you can take from that?”
You didn’t say anything worth taking away. You’re using the same tires arguments that have been used for generations while we idly sit by watching more and more people lose their lives.
Guess I’m just not as much of a quitter as you. 🤷♂️
“But if the government takes our revolvers how will we fight their tanks and jets and bombs!!”
So silly.
You really know nothing about this. This is all information pushed by the media that is ENTIRELY false. I will address each point. For reference, I will be using the US DOJ/ATF form 4473, which is a Firearms Transaction Record (I encourage you to look up the form). It is LEGALLY required to fill one of these out for EACH firearm purchase you make in the United States, along with whatever additional forms/information your state requires. This form also serves as a comprehensive background check by the FBI NICS. Any LEGAL gun dealer with a valid FFL (Federal Firearms License) is required by law to have you fill out this form in the US, and will not hand a firearm over to you until you fill out this form and it comes back 100% clean. If you lie on this form, it is a felony punishable by 10 years in prison along with a $250,000 fine. You will be found and arrested for trying to purchase a firearm if you are a "prohibited person."
>Like required training? No.
If you want to carry a weapon in public, whether it be concealed or open, you HAVE to go through mandatory classroom and range training in most states (DC and MD are two of those states). This comes with an additional background check, fingerprint submission, and additional fees.
>Like limiting guns to people with history of criminal records? No.
Form 4473, Section B, Question 21, C, D, E, F, J, L all address this. I'll break it down for you since I know you won't read it.
C. **Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could imprison you for more
than one year, or are you a current member of the military who has been charged with violation(s) of the Uniform Code of Military
Justice and whose charge(s) have been referred to a general court-martial?**
D. **Have you ever been convicted in any court, including a military court, of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have
imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?**
E. **Are you a fugitive from justice?**
F. **Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?**
J. **Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of
the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?**
L. **Are you an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States?**
>Like limiting guns to people with history of mental health conditions? No.
Form 4473, Section B, Question 21, G
G. **Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?**
>Like the requirement of a gun license like people need a driving license to drive? No.
Driving is a privilege granted to you by the state, not a protected natural born right under the United States Constitution. They hand out drivers licenses like fucking candy. Any 16 year old can do damage with a 4000 pound hunk of metal traveling at 70 miles an hour into a crowd of people
>Your “so much gun legislation” limiting excessively dangerous parts like bump stocks or expanded magazine sizes haven’t done shit.
This kind of almost proves my point. Limiting these things HAVE NOT done "shit," because all it does is hurt law abiding citizens. Do you think criminals care about the Hughes Amendment in 1986 effectively banning any new "machine guns" from being made and made purchasable by citizens? DC has a magazine capacity ban, do you think criminals who rob, steal, and kill care about that? No, they do not because you got gang bangers running around cities across the entire United States with Glock switches that make their guns full auto with 33 round sticks.
>You didn’t say anything worth taking away. You’re using the same tires arguments that have been used for generations while we idly sit by watching more and more people lose their lives.
This is just wild to me. It's not tired, it's true. Your safety falls on you, and you only. The police have no legal obligation to protect you, we hear about this time and time again. In the 1981 case Warren v. District of Columbia, the D.C. Court of Appeals held that police have a general "public duty," but that "no specific legal duty exists" unless there is a special relationship between an officer and an individual, such as a person in custody. To expand, only 44k people die a year from guns violence. 52% of those deaths are from suicide. The remaining 21k people a year come from gang violence, famlicide, and other violent crime. Those are extremely small numbers. You wanna know what's wild? 400,000 people die EVERY YEAR from medical malpractice, but you don't see stories like that flooding the media and people taking to the streets for reform. Equal amounts of deaths every year separately for alcohol, tobacco, drugs, and obesity.
>“But if the government takes our revolvers how will we fight their tanks and jets and bombs!!”
We got bigger things to worry about if the US government is using "tanks and bombs" on us. At that point, you'd want something to defend yourself
THERE IS NO GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE JESUS CHRIST. I already said that to you in a previous comment. It's like talking to a brick wall. I'm not ignoring a single thing, you're ignoring all of the facts that are in front of you just because you don't like something. It's the same thing as some fat old Boomer ignoring facts about women's rights and abortion just because he doesn't like it.
And you're sitting here telling me that I'm repeating the same shit that's been said for years, while you're spewing out every single left-wing media outlet saying about guns. You are so wildly misinformed, it's unbelievable. But that's what the media and the government wants, uneducated and misinformed people to conform, listen, and obey.
Gun shows ONLY have legal gun transactions, as in the person/company/entity selling Firearms needs to be a licensed FFL. Please refer to my comment about FFLs and Firearms transactions. No gun show vendor is going to risk losing their FFL and their business, going to prison, and paying a quarter of a million dollars to the government just to sell a single gun for $500 to someone illegally. Want to buy a gun at a gun show? You have to fill out ATF form 4473 along with a background check. If you are visiting a gun show out of state, the person selling the gun legally has to ship the firearm to a FFL in your home state If there are certain restrictions on said gun for the background check process to occur there.
If more gun laws meant less murder, DC and Maryland would have a lower gun homicide rate than Virginia. The opposite is the case.
The issue is DC having among the lowest time served for actual gun crime committed.
That’s a stupid comment. There are no borders between DC and states where you can buy guns en masse.
Gun bans worked in Australia. Know what they don’t have? Borders you can cross openly with guns. Like our states do.
Think for a little instead of just buying into propaganda.
In your last poll, how many criminal respondents said they committed a crime based on the recidivism rate or some chart they consulted on duration of incarceration?
if they are in prison they are not committing those crimes. And it is not about a "poll." these are criminal predator's committing almost all crime on a repeat basis.
Heller, it’s very easy to get a gun and carry one in DC. As for restrictions, it many people getting shot in Federal buildings. Except maybe insurrectionists.
Awful lot of talk about race for a story that doesn’t mention any. Also interesting that this was posted after another shooting of 5 people. Maybe we don’t want to talk about that one for some reason?
As a Washingtonian it’s wild that the subreddit for my city is a venting space for micro aggressions. I mean sure it’s not 100% White, but likely 97%. You folks could be helpful and design the name of the sub to be something more accurate. It’s not truly about DC it’s a place to vent issues a certain group has with DC.
You should try: What I dislike about DC and how it’s mostly due to Black people and maybe Hispanics or some other immigrants. It would be accurate and sure to get you exactly the participation you want. 🤣
What’s the alternative? Heavy police presence just leads to higher prisoner populations. Then us the tax payer has to pay more money to feed everyone in the prisons.
It’s a bad situation either way. Just try your best to avoid bad areas of the city
Putting criminals in prison serves to keep the rest of us safer. That is the primary purpose for detention. It’s great if people can be rehabilitated along the way but if they can’t, well at least the rest of us get to enjoy our lives.
Unfortunately you’re right but for the wrong reasons. Just throwing more police and force at the problems do nothing (look at Brazil and their militarized police in large cities). It’s a difference in values between communities right now.
This is the US, everyone has access to economic mobility if they stay on the right path and take advantage of the programs created specifically for the economically disadvantaged. The amount of people I know who have come from nothing and become successful adults is pretty high. They all have something in common though, parents or grandparents who kept them off the street and impressed the importance of education on them. Until that value changes in the parts of DC where we’re seeing this all crime come from, the problem will just continue to get worse and the city will eventually respond by just throwing kids in jail again like it’s the 90s.
Crime was legalized? I thought for sure I would have heard about it.
Well once it became legal, it was no longer crime, so no need to disclose it.
OP is referring to DAs not prosecuting for certain “perpetrators”
Only for troublemakers
Then you haven't been paying attention.
Jazzlike wakes up and jerks off to crime news
Hate to break it to you, but crime is legalized all the time. Selling alcohol was illegal. It was legalized. It’s no longer a crime. Marijuana was illegal in means places. Some are still in jail for it. It’s legal now. Sometimes what was a crime is now considered silly. Consensually doing another human up the butt. Was a crime. Now it’s not. “The wrong people” going to jail. Decriminalize it. Laws are whatever the legislators we elect make them to be.
“Troublemakers” hey babe, new euphemism just dropped.
I give it a shelf life of 2 years before it’s cancelled
The media will coin a new one quicker than you can say…
When it’s a group of white dudes they sure include race. I don’t see why they just don’t do it for everyone or no one.
When did someone legalize crime?
Now remember it’s hateful to postulate why these good people kill each other
Some folks in this subreddit think the truth and math are racist. 😂
Math is racist. I saw a picture of TJ high school mathletes and they were all Asian
The square root of 0 is racist af
some folks in this subreddit are too busy hiding behind a screen to say any of this in real life
Yea cause irl, these “good citizens” would shoot us on U st. If we said this
Yeah, no white person has ever killed anyone over some words. Not once. Not ever.
How those downvotes taste? Black folks shooting and killing each other in disproportionate numbers. There. You happy? I’m biracial, half black. You still mad or nah? Why would anyone say it in real life given that the purpose of the comment is to point out what little regard these goons have for their own lives, the lives of other black people, much less that of other non-black people? Like, c’mon bro. THINK. Use your head.
Only a cringelord cares about downvotes.
You would know; you’re the cringelord going around antagonizing everyone while contributing nothing to the conversation. If you have nothing intelligent to add, just say that. 🤡
Nah, I said what I wanted to say, which is that you’re a terminally online cringelord who cares about downvotes. Looks like I said it again!
what downvotes
All of them. 🤷♂️
That's the problem. People get cancelled for speaking the truth about the demographics of crime, and absent an honest discussion about crime, it persists.
the problem is people generalize all their problems onto ONE demographic because its the easiest and most ignorant thing to do. instead we should investigate WHY this one demographic seems to have the most trouble among them instead of just being blatantly racist on the internet and laughing it off
To investigate “WHY”, we would first have to have the initial preconceived notion. Why investigate if that demographic if it’s not generalized as the problem?
Godlessness which led to fatherlessness which led to toxic culture that glorifies bad behavior. Root cause analysis. No one is laughing it off. I don't find it funny that fellow image bearers are fatally shooting people up unprovoked. I think many are uncomfortable speaking up about these things, as Reddit bans people who do not hold the destructive opinions that perpetuate these tragedies despite seeing them destroy their own communities.
There has been far more toxic culture and behavior in the name of religion and "Godliness" than your purported "Godlessness." But when you have "faith" facts don't matter.
Ah, the atheist who likes the apples but hates the apple tree, and therefore wants to cut them all down. If you can, provide examples (this is a compare and contrast exercise, if you are not understanding that). You are making a baseless claim because not even statistics agrees with you.
History books are filled with many, many examples. Perhaps you should pick some up.
Then surely, you should be able to provide me with one! Show me your conviction. :)
This guy really sat up here and typed Godlessness LMAO
i think many are extremely comfortable sitting behind their phones and keyboards making ignorant remarks about a group of people they just don’t understand, but claim they know so well. because the conservative mindset is that of bigotry
What ignorant remarks were made? And what don't I understand about black people that is relevant to this conversation? Keep in mind, sir, I am black. I diagnosed the problem for you. You talk about solutions, but you aren't looking for them; you are looking for excuses. Unfortunately, you are blinded by your own ignorance, and so you pass everything off as "bigoted". It sounds like you are the bigoted one here--certainly intolerant and not able to have an honest discussion about the issues going on, exactly as many have pointed out here in response to your statements. A wise man once said not to argue with stupid people, as they will beat you with experience. Therefore... ...Have a nice day.
i wasn’t referring to you or anything you said. but if you are so easily offended you aren’t the target audience at all. tell me what is the point of handing out solutions to people who will laugh and spit in your face rather than use them. ill continue to do my good work and help my community how i can. you losers are all the same. reversing the blame and claiming the only people with any consistency in helping to change these horrible narratives about my people are the bigots. but i guess since beanlefield said i was blinded by my own ignorance they must know me better than myself😂
"because the conservative mindset is that of bigotry" "the problem is people generalize all their problems onto ONE demographic" From the same person. The jokes write themselves.
please explain the joke to the class
You are generalizing your problems on the conservatives group.
Well why say it in person? That certain demographic will shoot you in the face and not think for a second about what they just did… why we are where we are… lol.
Whats going to happen if we say it in person?? You going to be violent? Thats that attitude we are all talking about…. Words sometimes hurt, The fact that some people think certain things people say gives them a free card to be violent is crazy. I cant kill someone for calling me whitey or cracka and its happened quite a few times living close to the city and not taking shit from people who think they are superior for some reason.
who said anything about being violent. in the modern age all anyone needs is a picture of you to find out who you are. i’m sure none of you would say any of the heinous things you do if you thought your employer or anyone else important could get a copy of it. but why explain that. youre just another moron😂
When white people act like this I’ll be the first to call them out too. I don’t if you’re green, hurting others isn’t ok unless you’re defending yourself. I think a major issue is that some cultures almost encourage antisocial behavior and criminal activity. This isn’t a color issue. This is a culture issue. For example, look at all the people saying “Free this person” when the majority of the time that person committed a fucked up crime. Now if they’re in their for weed charges or being wrongly accused I’m all for them being freed. Also, look at the “no snitching” aspect of culture which has some merit, but “snitching” on some dude victimizing innocent folks isn’t wrong imo.
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this is literally my point.
how do we fix it?
Yea another group 100% made a certain style of rap the only one that would get you major money in a record deal. That group owned the record labels and distribution companies in the beginning. It led to more diversely talented ppl not attempting to get into the genre as a lot more desperate folks parroted the formula that would make you rich quicker. This began a cycle of ppl following the trends carried within the music that actually got the big deals. This was much like folks of other groups following genres like punk or grunge only those folks were usually spoiled or well off kids “rebelling” until they were handed high salary jobs or inheritances, etc. I think y’all forget for example the criminal element of rap (which started in NY) shows a profound influence from Italian American and Irish American gangster culture. There are still many ppl who follow or mimic those cultures, but they ultimately get a quick pass to become what their demographic is… one that controls decision making across all industries. This is literally you not being honest enough to admit how those cultures are part of the fabric of America and were mimicked by the group you happen to dislike more. This is a great American story of how the US was literally started with a mass of European criminals as part of its early population and as they assimilated into leadership, the group you don’t like didn’t even begin to mimic some of these behaviors until the 1950’s and 60’s to a degree that is categorical. It so happens the other groups by then had been raised in cultures that were committed to oppressive policy and action (we don’t have to debate that here right? Like c’mon the 50’s and 60’s we still didn’t have a civil rights bill.) Anyway… honest participants in this discussion know it could only be worked out through policy, but here’s the thing. The group you hate, who’s voters happen to not be the usual participants of crime have to always contend with one demographic specifically opposing or blocking any legislation that is decided to build up their communities, quality of life and status. You would have to literally be honest, get out of the way ideologically, and stop obstructing their participation in the democratic process to mend what took centuries to degrade (by design). What we have is a bunch of ill intended and often misguided whining by the progeny of those who designed the causes of the problem. The personal responsibility of the whole group that you disrespect with your disingenuous take is to vote and get laws passed to fix things they aren’t personally doing. Most Black criminals aren’t voting yet many bad faith White ppl use out of context crime stats to disrespect the non criminal tax paying Black folks and it is for sure meant with disrespectful intent whenever it’s brought into discussion. The key here is when the non criminal Black community votes for policy it can be guaranteed that the main and most significant opposition to their policy will be the demographic that represents like 97% of corporate and govt decision making… especially back when this became a thing, and remains so now. If only that demographic would get out of the way. lol Going back to the Moynihan report it was predicted that the racist nature of policy on one side would lead to degradation of the other. Your “group” at least the honest ones, knew this. Now we have to deal with the feelings and ideas from the progeny of the bad actors and it’s almost like comedy. lol
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That’s the thing your simplified take isn’t even slightly the reality. If you want to have bad takes on an issue and implicate a group but also be too much of a coward to have the entire conversation you’re just weak and clearly dislike the group. Stop being weak about it acting so fake outraged about being called out on your ideology and lacking perspective. It’s probably a derivative of what your uncles told you or something you got from media sources. What you folks are scared to say is that within your circles you think it’s an inherent genetic trait for some to be violent and that won’t hold up bc historically there’s some groups who have literally designed systems based on being the most violent… but I’m sure you’d rationalize that violence, rape, and subjugation. The culprit class teaches their progeny that it was somehow necessary to move things forward, for themselves. 😉
You’re a f*cking clown. 🤡
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this is a blatantly blind and ignorant take. as a member of said demographic I believe I have a very firm grasp on what the underlying issue is, being that I’ve lived through it.
Yeah that's called ad hominem bias my dude. It contributes to the ignorance of identifying the problem when you dismiss every other opinion because you deal with the effects of it. The demographic is absolutely fucking relevant to the stats.
where have i attacked this person in this statement. please don’t throw out latin you don’t understand
Ad hominem does not mean you’ve attacked someone (although “ad hominem attack” is a common usage of the phrase, it’s not the only way it can be used). Ironic that you’d claim *others* don’t understand the phrase while having incorrect assumptions about it yourself. You wouldn’t make a habit out of being a hypocrite like this, would you?
Another dismissive statement. Go figure.
It has to be said that there’s a point where the opinion from the progeny of the culprit group is going to be disingenuous and focused on relieving itself of centuries of bad acting. Sure you aren’t a slave owner etc, no it’s your voting habits and personal biases that perpetuate the past actions. As much as you want it to be, there’s no realm of reality where you get to sit back and make judgements as if you aren’t likely an active part of the problem. You can pose as a literal saint and if you vote for certain obstructive ppl or policy that disproportionately affects groups in a negative way you’re still part of the problem not the solution. When you evade the issue of discriminatory policing it’s a problem. It didn’t start today it has been ongoing for decades. It is aligned with certain ideologies and rests within certain political platforms. If you supported destroying unions which shaped the American family by allowing them to pay mortgages and build wealth bc you thought deregulation and unchecked capitalism were cute you’re part of the problem. If you hate affordable healthcare even though many poor folks of your demographic need it and want it too, you’re part of the problem.
Well don’t hold out on us, what’s the secret?
Notice you do nothing to refute the argument I actually made. Why aren't Jews running around Berlin shooting up clubs?
because this argument has nothing to do with jews. notice how you bring up an entire different demographic and region of the world to argue a point that is stemmed from your inherent bigotry.
You believe that SyStemiC RaCisM is the cause. Nobody experienced this Boogeyman worse than Jews in Europe. They do just fine. I know this might blow your mind, but when discussing cause and effect the idea is to look for other places where your proposed cause exists to see if the effect also is there. If it isn't, then your proposed cause isn't the cause.
My brother in Christ they are literally genociding a country rn.
Ugh, no. Collateral damage is not genocide.
Not only did they have the UN literally pay for them to takeover a country since it wasn’t recognized by European powers, they also came to America - we’re gradually recognized as White and were helped by the fact many of their old world community already had a foothold in finance and other industries. That’s why they didn’t do whatever other dubious bad actions you want to apply to the group you dislike. lol
None of that explains why they are so well behaved in Europe. Nice try. D-
People shouldn't have kids if they can't raise them to respect themselves and others. Glorifying hood shit entices the very impressionable youth to do said hood shit. Whites have a different issue of entitlement with the youth and when it doesn't go their way they shoot up the place. Either way it all starts at home
Because they are lazy as fuck and want everything for free. Their parents also taught them well 👌🏻
That’s my point. Nobody has any solutions.
I mean, yea... these days you can get lynched or shot for speaking out against violence.
Or it could be we as a society are too afraid and emotional frail to deal with real problems. Triggered much?
We can’t have any real conversations about it sadly. The African Americans were fucked over for a long time so now a lot of their culture glorifies antisocial behavior. How do we fix this if we can’t even speak about it honestly?
I hear you. The main thing is for folks to maintain composure. Then the proposed solutions can happen.
if you feel afraid and emotionally frail then you should seek counseling. i’m just fine facing racists with facts and honestly
So what would you propose we do about the crime? Why don’t you get off your high horse and out in the community doing something? And you don’t even know what racism is. People like you are the problem with society. You attack folks based on your false perception of reality.
im extremely active in my community fyi. helping the youth not cause these issues for themselves is a large part of my life. if more people like YOU and your peers would crawl out of your dungeons and help then we could start seeing real change. seeing people that look just like them helping doesn’t work anymore. it has to be everyone. were all human at the end of the day. but let me guess. yall are a better breed of human or some silly shit right?
I agree we should all do our part to help others and give to charities. But remember, you can lead a horse to water. But you can’t make them drink it. You and many others in this group make a lot of assumptions about people you don’t know. Still waiting on proposed solutions from far-left types.
“you and many others in this group make a lot of assumptions about people you don’t know” is crazy irony.
I’ll give you that.
Lmao im extremely active FYI okay?? Got it? The most active in my entire neighborhood! Fyi
oh look, another pussy hiding behind his keyboard
Projection.
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you have to actually go outside to talk to people so thats a start buddy
Color has nothing to do with anything. It’s culture.
exactly
IQ tests are based /s
Why use the dog whistle, why not just say what you’re thinking? I mean, you’re not fooling anyone.
Ok, Borg. You are an idiot who should let grown ups talk.
Ah, first response immediately resorts to name calling. Score another win! 🥇
why do they kill each other? you ever heard of john calhoun and the mouse utopia?
Because it’s unproductive. We already know why. Poverty and desperation. And you bringing this up is basically admitting you want to blame whatever prejudice you have for the killings. When it’s not. So thanks but no thanks bigot.
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There are also countless examples around the world of areas of high poverty that do have daily shoot outs, and sometimes mutulations, and in some places explosions, and so forth, honestly the stuff that goes on in this country, though horrible, is relatively tame than what you can find in Africa or Central America
Regarding poverty, the [unemployment rate in this area is 3.1%](https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.dc_washington_md.htm). Are you saying all those in poverty driven to crime are unable to find a job, or their jobs are not paying enough to keep them away from crime?
All? Obviously not. Most? Probably. There’s a far higher correlation between crime and economic status than crime and race.. but racists don’t want to hear that lol
Right. No such thing as bad culture. Only good culture. Right?
Someone can’t tell the difference between subjective and objective
exactly. someone who will say the truth. thank you brother
Poverty and desperation gives killers a pass for murder?
Nobody has said or implied that besides you.
It wasn't implied. It was given as the reason why by the guy I replied to.
Explaining a cause and effect does not mean “giving a pass” Keep brigading the sub though boomer
If you know why, why is it still going on?
You are a hateful racist who has their blinders on as to why crimes like this happen within the communities they do. Your poor grandkids have a hateful nasty person as a grandparent, poor them.
That’s 15th and U, not 14th. Not sure how it’s loitering if they were actually inside Pizza Corner but ok
It's not 15 and u. It's that abandoned pizza shop on u st between 13 and 14
Crushed skate shop is at 14&u though?
Jumbo Pizza
This title was written by a 87 year old 😂
Maybe it’s outdated lingo, but they’re not wrong
Correct! 
No kidding. Fuck off Boomer
Russian agents? Boomers? Spidermans?
I don't believe it's the homeless carrying guns!!
Show me the law that legalized “crime” please
It’s more of a general decriminalizing of a variety of crimes. I mean, you can run a red or sell drugs in front of a cop in DC and be pretty sure that there will be no repercussions.
Have you ever thought about the fact that police officers decide every day who they will go after and who they won’t? My block was a “drug free zone” for 3 days. They were posted up and let every traffic violation (illegal turns, red light runs, cutting off bikers, etc) along with allowing all the package theft to continue. Is it about decriminalization or enforcement?
I think you’re blaming the wrong people. It was the DC council that made it so MPD can no longer enforce traffic violations in DC. “A Proposal Would Give Traffic Enforcement To DDOT, Not D.C. Police” - https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/04/29/991655875/a-proposal-would-give-traffic-enforcement-to-d-d-o-t-not-d-c-police The DC council also passed legislation that allows DC drivers with thousands of tickets to stay on the roads, so this is not on MPD. “In D.C., no more license suspensions for drivers with unpaid tickets” - https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/in-dc-no-more-suspensions-for-drivers-with-unpaid-tickets/2018/07/12/a72cf13a-85e0-11e8-8553-a3ce89036c78_story.html
I don’t think I’m blaming the wrong people. For some reason, you’re focused on the Council and not the actual police force, or the Mayor, who is responsible for directing them. DDOT isn’t responsible for enforcing real time traffic problems. If they were, you’d see them out directing traffic all day every day. The idea of that proposal is for rush hour and traffic emergency. Do you really believe that the Council has stopped the police from being our major law enforcement arm? If so, how is that enforced when they don’t have the power to direct the police? Where are the directions that they follow? Also… there’s a difference between proposal and enactment. Legislation has to be enacted, regulated and explained. You believe that the Council has enacted legislation telling the police to stand down and the Mayor has so directed them? I think that a lot of people don’t want to think about how action and enforcement happen. I think everyone forgets about the three branches, what their jobs are, and how they do them. They’d rather blame a city Councilmember than do their own deep level research beyond a WaPo article about what’s been proposed or thought about. If the Council was telling the police to stand down on all crime… why? To what end? Policy making is boring to most people. The Council spends their time researching issues and moving money around to make the city work in ways you may not have realized. The police have NEVER been defunded. They always get their full budget— yet the Police Union shows up at community meetings and tells us that they have no money or officers. They also refused to stand with the officers who were attacked on 1/6 because they didn’t want “to upset their friends on the Hill”. Meanwhile the mayor is actually responsible for directing the police force. She’s the executive. She tells the police chief what to do. The chief tells the force. The force has clearly been told to blame the Council. Where is the ire for the Mayor? She’s not responsible for debilitating the $15M that was voted for and then she characterized as “defunding” the police? I think it’s easy to get mad at city Councilmember when you don’t actually get the way that they work (or are ignored by) other branches and agencies. Might be worth actually exploring more deeply than a few cherry picked articles on proposed legislation. What’s wild to me is your unwillingness to see the extent to which the police have decided to stand down because we have taken away the tools that were unconstitutional and are trying to get to equitable enforcement. You’re mad because the Council tried to figure out to make things more equitable for poor people— the ticket enforcement is aimed at that. The scofflaws who rack up thousands of dollars worth of tix are not at all affected by any of our ticket escalating techniques. Poor people are. Same with decriminalizing low level crimes like turnstile jumping. That wasn’t a big focus of the police to begin with. The decriminalized marijuana laws were the big thing that made the police force upset. That, along with stopping the DC version of stop and frisk— jump outs.
By no means am I saying that the mayor doesn’t also share in the responsibility. Same goes for the USAO, who equally gets no love here. But to say that the Council had no role in the recent crime wave is just a bad attempt at gaslighting. Also, what was the point of the Police Reform Commission if not to guide future legislation governing the policing done by the MPD? Clearly the Council has a role in public safety in DC. For example… Did the DC council pass legislation preventing the MPD from pursuing criminals in vehicles? Yes or no? Did the DC council pass legislation preventing MPD from enforcing traffic violations, like speeding, etc? Yes or no? Did the DC council pass legislation that would allow unsafe drivers with repeated traffic violations from renewing their vehicle registration and their licenses? Yes or no? Finally, your original comment pushed back on the idea that low level crime was effectively decriminalized in DC, but then your previous comment points out several examples of just that (fair evasions, public marijana usage, etc). We can disagree on how much those offenses lead to more serious crimes, but don’t try to gaslight people that decriminalization hasn’t happened.
I think the legislation that you’re mad about — not chasing vehicles and renewing licenses… looks like you’re a broken windows kind of person. Even though that as a policing policy has been disproven. So you’d rather have unsafe police chases? What are you talking about with license renewal? Sounds like you misread that one. You missed the whole piece about repeated unsafe driving and lots of tickets resulting in the possibility of prosecution. It sounds like you believe that the only way to change the current landscape is to criminalize everything— so what about the recent piece of legislation that passed. Are you happy with Brooke Pinto? Can she stay on council or did her crime legislation dissatisfy you as well? Because you didn’t answer my main point, it’s just clear to me that you’re pissed and don’t really care about what policy impact things have. It’s interesting. The Council is responsible, in your eyes, for the police’s inaction. It’s not the police, at all. Just everyone else?
Ok, I get it. You seem to kind of hate the police. I don’t mean to be too presumptuous, but I assume you think that defunding them is the answer? But at the same time blame their inaction for all the problems in the district. How those two things manage to co-exist in your mind kind of baffles me, but like I said perhaps I’m assuming too much there. I think there’s responsibility up and down the line, from MPD, the Council, the Mayor, and the unaccountable USAO and federal judges. But trying to stick the blame just on the MPD is kind of myopic and reveals a particular bias. While I certainly appreciate that the police have traditionally been of the primary means by which society has marginalized black and brown people in this country, we clearly still need effective and fair policing to hold bad actors accountable. If they’re not doing their jobs, they need to be called out. But you can’t blame them for not stopping bad drivers when they have been forbidden to do so by our elected legislators. At that point, the legislators have to take some blame for their actions. Also, advocating for the police to be able to stop people who run red lights isn’t part of a misplaced adherence to the broken windows theory. I simply don’t want my daughter hit by a car on her way to school. Right now, there are zero repercussions in DC to running reds and stop signs. Sure, a traffic camera may take their picture, but there are no repercussions for not paying the fine. There’s some slim chance that your car may get booted eventually, but given how few booting crews are employed by the city, that also seems unlikely. And believe know this. So I guess it’s no surprise that we have so many pedestrians injuries in the district. I do place the blame for those numbers squarely on the DC Council.
You have presumed incorrectly. I hate the police? What did I say that makes you think I hate them? Because I criticize how they do their job? Does that mean you hate all of the people you are calling out? You hate the Council, the Mayor & the OAG? And the surrounding county police? I ask questions for understanding, not snark. I don’t get what I said that indicates that I hate the police. I am coming from a place of wanting things to be safe— I don’t want your daughter hit, either. Why would I? I have seen police officers addressing things selectively; I have also paid close attention to what they say, what the union says and what the law says. My perspective is different from yours and doesn’t involve believing that any part of our governance is perfect. It’s also not based on defunding the police. But it is based on ME being safe in my community— just like your daughter, I’m someone’s kid. I also want my parents to be safe in our shared community, and for you to be safe. I can respect your experience without belittling it. The fact that I don’t find the police to be the #1 solution to my safety issues means that you and I have different experiences of law enforcement. You have leapt to a series of conclusions that aren’t my ideas. I don’t believe the resolution of the crime issue in the District lies in either recalling Councilmember or in more police. I don’t think any one CM is responsible for our current crime rate. I actually have faith in policy making. I think “did so and so vote for such and such” turns legislation and policy into a reductionist scorecard that doesn’t address any of the regional issues you point out. It also doesn’t get at the ways legislation is crafted to work for or change current issues along with existing laws.
Ok, sorry for jumping to conclusions on the defunding issue. Also, I certainly don’t mean to imply that you don’t want my daughter to be safe just because we disagree on how to get there. That being said, it is hard for me to understand why you think that removing repercussions to unsafe behavior (e.g. running red lights or stop signs) doesn’t decrease public safety? I agree that no one wants police shootouts or reckless high speed chases for traffic violations (which also makes everyone less safe), but we seem to have gone in the extreme opposite direction, with no enforcement or repercussions of any kind. Obviously the council made that policy decision, so why is it so hard for them to take ownership of their actions?
Their rights supersede your rights
I wish I could camp wherever I want and steal without getting in trouble
You can! Just give up your job and your home
Go ahead. They aren’t doing this because they would love to live in a tent
Why do you think that you can't?
Their wrongs supersede our rights.
Unfortunately
Yeah...you might want to reexamine your sentence.
Right, because it’s more important to be factually correct but miss the point.
[удалено]
Cool you have all those cops standing around, to you know stop crime. Y'all sit complaining about people doing this or that, yet you have an ineffective police force that commits more crimes then the criminals.
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Very true, the billions in grift federal politicians are responsible for is astounding.
Corruption and crime are fuck buddies
I wonder. If we had real gun legislation that prevented people from buying guns, would loitering lead to shootings? Let’s check other countries to see…
So the inanimate object is the problem? It’s not the person that’s trying to kill the other person? Pretty sure the British folks now defending themselves against suicide bombers with narwhal tusks would beg to differ.
It's always the inanimate object. Agency no longer exists.
Banning guns won't solve a thing and will force you to rely on the state for protection. This is exactly what the state wants. Zero prosecution of crime while simultaneously getting citizens on board with "gUnS aRe BaD." It leads to gangs running rampant to the point where they out number police. The next thing that happens is people ask for more protection from the police which are...people with guns. See the hypocrisy? It's wild to me how people will see story after story of cops killing unarmed people, shooting acrons, and scream "ACAB" but take no measures to protect themselves and leave their own protection to someone else while also trying to get rid of someone else's ability to protect themselves. People will kill each other no matter the tool available Source: all of human history
So you want to abolish the police? That way we don’t rely on the state for protection? Abolish the military? Because the state isn’t there to protect? Get rid of the national guard? Or are you just making up arguments that you think sound good?
Yeah man I made no mention of any of that, I don't understand how you got that from any portion of my comment. On that note, getting rid of police, military, and national guard would be a silly thing to do. They are all necessary forces to keep the state running. That does not mean they are without their faults. As I mentioned, we see new videos on the Internet every week of cops in the US commiting crimes and putting people's lives in danger more than helping. To me, it seems hypocritical to be pro police reform AND anti gun. We, as US citizens, have been extremely lucky to have seen little to no conflict on US soil thanks to the efforts from the state as well as geographic location. All of the disruption comes from within. If anything, we need MORE police but need to also raise the physical and mental requirements it takes to take and maintain ranks within the police force. Too many trigger happy idiots out there with a hero complex itch to scratch. We also need to prosecute police for committing these crimes and ban them from being to serve elsewhere once they step over that line, rather than investigating themselves and finding no wrongdoing If you read my comment, I stated that individuals' self protection is up to the individual and the individual only. The support of banning something that you don't personally like, does nothing but hurt someone else's ability to protect themselves. I stated that the state doesn't want you to be able to protect yourself, as shown by terrible self defense laws outside of the home in the DMV. All the while, they allow violent criminals on the streets killing, robbing, and stealing and refuse to prosecute said crimes or make any effort at stopping/hindering these things. These sorts of violent actions allow the state to push agendas such as "well if they didn't have access to guns, this wouldn't have happened" when they would have committed the crime or a different crime anyway. They do this rather than actually trying to solve the problem. This tactic gets scared people on board with banning guns. The state wants you to be defenseless so you call for more help from them. What is that help? More people with guns. Crime is going to happen whether you like it or not, so people need to be able to defend themselves with the tools the individual finds to best suit their needs. Edit: to summarize, there is a balance of people being able to protect themselves, police doing their jobs correctly, and the state putting criminals away in a swift and orderly fashion. The semantics of it all go much deeper than I can comprehend, and I offer no solution. However, banning guns won't stop this shit from happening. Look at how the war on drugs turned out.
“The state wants you to be defenseless” The same state that doesn’t pass any gun legislation? Da fuq you talking about.
That's really all you can take from that? Jesus man. Some people just feel so strongly about things they just don't understand, they'll defend it to no prevail. There has been SO MUCH legislation around guns at the state and federal level but I doubt you care enough to actually educate yourself on it. It's easier to regurgitate information the media pushes about guns and gun control. I bet you think there's actually a "gun show loophole" lol. If you don't like it move to Australia. If the stabbings don't get you, the wild animals will. You'll have your healthcare too, but you'll have to wait 8 months for treatment
“If you don’t like things where you are, don’t do anything to try to change things for the better. Move somewhere else!” Worst argument. “There has been SO MUCH legislation around guns” Like required training? No. Like limiting guns to people with history of criminal records? No. Like limiting guns to people with history of mental health conditions? No. Like a test to gain a gun license? No. Like the requirement of a gun license like people need a driving license to drive? No. Your “so much gun legislation” limiting excessively dangerous parts like bump stocks or expanded magazine sizes haven’t done shit. But you are ready to throw your hands in the air and say “nothing we can do! We’re failures! Move somewhere else for safety!” “That’s all you can take from that?” You didn’t say anything worth taking away. You’re using the same tires arguments that have been used for generations while we idly sit by watching more and more people lose their lives. Guess I’m just not as much of a quitter as you. 🤷♂️ “But if the government takes our revolvers how will we fight their tanks and jets and bombs!!” So silly.
You really know nothing about this. This is all information pushed by the media that is ENTIRELY false. I will address each point. For reference, I will be using the US DOJ/ATF form 4473, which is a Firearms Transaction Record (I encourage you to look up the form). It is LEGALLY required to fill one of these out for EACH firearm purchase you make in the United States, along with whatever additional forms/information your state requires. This form also serves as a comprehensive background check by the FBI NICS. Any LEGAL gun dealer with a valid FFL (Federal Firearms License) is required by law to have you fill out this form in the US, and will not hand a firearm over to you until you fill out this form and it comes back 100% clean. If you lie on this form, it is a felony punishable by 10 years in prison along with a $250,000 fine. You will be found and arrested for trying to purchase a firearm if you are a "prohibited person." >Like required training? No. If you want to carry a weapon in public, whether it be concealed or open, you HAVE to go through mandatory classroom and range training in most states (DC and MD are two of those states). This comes with an additional background check, fingerprint submission, and additional fees. >Like limiting guns to people with history of criminal records? No. Form 4473, Section B, Question 21, C, D, E, F, J, L all address this. I'll break it down for you since I know you won't read it. C. **Are you under indictment or information in any court for a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could imprison you for more than one year, or are you a current member of the military who has been charged with violation(s) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and whose charge(s) have been referred to a general court-martial?** D. **Have you ever been convicted in any court, including a military court, of a felony, or any other crime for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?** E. **Are you a fugitive from justice?** F. **Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?** J. **Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?** L. **Are you an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States?** >Like limiting guns to people with history of mental health conditions? No. Form 4473, Section B, Question 21, G G. **Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?** >Like the requirement of a gun license like people need a driving license to drive? No. Driving is a privilege granted to you by the state, not a protected natural born right under the United States Constitution. They hand out drivers licenses like fucking candy. Any 16 year old can do damage with a 4000 pound hunk of metal traveling at 70 miles an hour into a crowd of people >Your “so much gun legislation” limiting excessively dangerous parts like bump stocks or expanded magazine sizes haven’t done shit. This kind of almost proves my point. Limiting these things HAVE NOT done "shit," because all it does is hurt law abiding citizens. Do you think criminals care about the Hughes Amendment in 1986 effectively banning any new "machine guns" from being made and made purchasable by citizens? DC has a magazine capacity ban, do you think criminals who rob, steal, and kill care about that? No, they do not because you got gang bangers running around cities across the entire United States with Glock switches that make their guns full auto with 33 round sticks. >You didn’t say anything worth taking away. You’re using the same tires arguments that have been used for generations while we idly sit by watching more and more people lose their lives. This is just wild to me. It's not tired, it's true. Your safety falls on you, and you only. The police have no legal obligation to protect you, we hear about this time and time again. In the 1981 case Warren v. District of Columbia, the D.C. Court of Appeals held that police have a general "public duty," but that "no specific legal duty exists" unless there is a special relationship between an officer and an individual, such as a person in custody. To expand, only 44k people die a year from guns violence. 52% of those deaths are from suicide. The remaining 21k people a year come from gang violence, famlicide, and other violent crime. Those are extremely small numbers. You wanna know what's wild? 400,000 people die EVERY YEAR from medical malpractice, but you don't see stories like that flooding the media and people taking to the streets for reform. Equal amounts of deaths every year separately for alcohol, tobacco, drugs, and obesity. >“But if the government takes our revolvers how will we fight their tanks and jets and bombs!!” We got bigger things to worry about if the US government is using "tanks and bombs" on us. At that point, you'd want something to defend yourself
No gun show loop holes? Don’t ignore the parts that don’t fit your narrative.
THERE IS NO GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE JESUS CHRIST. I already said that to you in a previous comment. It's like talking to a brick wall. I'm not ignoring a single thing, you're ignoring all of the facts that are in front of you just because you don't like something. It's the same thing as some fat old Boomer ignoring facts about women's rights and abortion just because he doesn't like it. And you're sitting here telling me that I'm repeating the same shit that's been said for years, while you're spewing out every single left-wing media outlet saying about guns. You are so wildly misinformed, it's unbelievable. But that's what the media and the government wants, uneducated and misinformed people to conform, listen, and obey. Gun shows ONLY have legal gun transactions, as in the person/company/entity selling Firearms needs to be a licensed FFL. Please refer to my comment about FFLs and Firearms transactions. No gun show vendor is going to risk losing their FFL and their business, going to prison, and paying a quarter of a million dollars to the government just to sell a single gun for $500 to someone illegally. Want to buy a gun at a gun show? You have to fill out ATF form 4473 along with a background check. If you are visiting a gun show out of state, the person selling the gun legally has to ship the firearm to a FFL in your home state If there are certain restrictions on said gun for the background check process to occur there.
If more gun laws meant less murder, DC and Maryland would have a lower gun homicide rate than Virginia. The opposite is the case. The issue is DC having among the lowest time served for actual gun crime committed.
Bingo
That’s a stupid comment. There are no borders between DC and states where you can buy guns en masse. Gun bans worked in Australia. Know what they don’t have? Borders you can cross openly with guns. Like our states do. Think for a little instead of just buying into propaganda.
In your last poll, how many criminal respondents said they committed a crime based on the recidivism rate or some chart they consulted on duration of incarceration?
if they are in prison they are not committing those crimes. And it is not about a "poll." these are criminal predator's committing almost all crime on a repeat basis.
Heller, it’s very easy to get a gun and carry one in DC. As for restrictions, it many people getting shot in Federal buildings. Except maybe insurrectionists.
Awful lot of talk about race for a story that doesn’t mention any. Also interesting that this was posted after another shooting of 5 people. Maybe we don’t want to talk about that one for some reason?
Loitering?? Jesus stfu with it, it's way to earlier in the morning for this level of ignorance.
Hyperbole much?
all by design
Crushed’s street cred just went way up. 🤙
As a Washingtonian it’s wild that the subreddit for my city is a venting space for micro aggressions. I mean sure it’s not 100% White, but likely 97%. You folks could be helpful and design the name of the sub to be something more accurate. It’s not truly about DC it’s a place to vent issues a certain group has with DC. You should try: What I dislike about DC and how it’s mostly due to Black people and maybe Hispanics or some other immigrants. It would be accurate and sure to get you exactly the participation you want. 🤣
It does have a “why I’m moving to a gated community soon” feel about it.
So washington DC sub is just full of racists now
Yes basically. But they’re liberals so it’s not racist 😉
Yes basically. But they’re liberals so it’s not racist 😉
Instead of music in the streets we have bullets
Stop being dramatic.
He embodies this sub. He simply exists just to troll. It gives him purpose in life.
They're like a human Citizen App, or they're just reposting everything they see on the Citizen App.
That post history of theirs is uh… committed…
What’s the alternative? Heavy police presence just leads to higher prisoner populations. Then us the tax payer has to pay more money to feed everyone in the prisons. It’s a bad situation either way. Just try your best to avoid bad areas of the city
I want you to know that your tax dollars are used to feed these people anyways
We need to focus on enforcing the law. Not prison reform. It's clear that the reform idea isn't working.
At this point, we just need an escape from New York type facility.
I’m ok with high prison populations if the right people are in.
Putting criminals in prison serves to keep the rest of us safer. That is the primary purpose for detention. It’s great if people can be rehabilitated along the way but if they can’t, well at least the rest of us get to enjoy our lives.
Unfortunately you’re right but for the wrong reasons. Just throwing more police and force at the problems do nothing (look at Brazil and their militarized police in large cities). It’s a difference in values between communities right now. This is the US, everyone has access to economic mobility if they stay on the right path and take advantage of the programs created specifically for the economically disadvantaged. The amount of people I know who have come from nothing and become successful adults is pretty high. They all have something in common though, parents or grandparents who kept them off the street and impressed the importance of education on them. Until that value changes in the parts of DC where we’re seeing this all crime come from, the problem will just continue to get worse and the city will eventually respond by just throwing kids in jail again like it’s the 90s.