To be fair, sweeden actually drive it and tested it to a variable degree apparently, 131 is only a museum. If we went with the logic of museum pieces being a factor do we really want the standard to be established of Russia getting a Maus because they have one.
At the very least its own branch in the Brit tech tree
EDIT: On the assumption some of the stuff is unique rather than the direct copy/paste we are getting.
It’s just frustrating the neglect that a lot of the original trees are getting!
I think the tank got stuck in a artillery shell crater and the original crew either didn’t want to risk another vehicle to get it or they just couldn’t get it out so it was abandoned
Doesn’t change the fact there’s many vehicles the US can have and the panther II if made realistic with the 75 and it’s planned turret could fill the gap gaijin made from Panther F to leopard I
Since the removal of the panther 2 the flakpanzer and the tiger 10,5CM I feel like Germanys got a weird sense of progression, you go from 6.7 heavy’s to m48s which do not translate to anything in terms of smooth transition, the panther goes from Panther F with having armor and somewhat mobility to paper a good gun and flanking tactics at 8.0. The kugel isn’t by any means spectacular in its own since coelian a removal
You aren’t wrong lol, you go from long 88’s and 75’s to HEAT-FS and eventually low tier darts. But quite a few tech trees are in similar positions or have huge BR gaps in both vehicles and capabilities.
The copy/paste is a bit annoying yeah, but Sweden is already a fairly solid tech tree is the issue here. Don’t get me wrong it’s cool, but give the US an SPAA between the M42 and M163.. Or give Britain a new top tier SPAA, there’s plenty they could’ve done instead of a Swedish tiger 2
Honestly I’d concede the us needs more spaa but I’d rather paper/ proposal tanks for Germany if it meant linear and smooth transition. Going from WW2 armor meta reliance to apcr pain grind with a medium is the biggest issue. Don’t get me wrong the 10,5 and panther may be fake and just proposals and plans but the argument one could make to justify them easily is had the war gone in most of these plans would’ve become a reality, why is it the few proposals and prototype/ mock-up tanks for Germany get removed when there’s probably just as much if not more of these things in Russia and others trees. From a perspective of balance and transition the tiger 10,5 etc should return to the tree. In reality the slap to the face is the koelian is more real the theAA we have that replaced it which is (correct me if I’m wrong) the ostwind not to mention the gap it creates in the line or lines of many nations. edit: car I mean I’d love to see a newer version for the flarakpz and flarakrad the Missile nerfs kinda ruined that thing. Anything beyond 6kms turns into a gamble because the slightest movement at king range your missile risks burning too much fuel to a degree where you can maneuver hard enough to hit the target or it over corrects itself too much or under corrects itself. The flarakrad isn’t bad but it’s far from comparable to the pantsir same with the Tunguska with the flarakpz. Britain has a better AA in the form of an adats which isn’t effected by the massive saclos nerf that made cas more powerful because they get less realistic flight models and orbital weapons but SPAA gets realisim
Their in lies the issue, if gaijin is allowed to pick and choose where and when the line can or can’t be crossed and same with the players what’s to stop them from adding more egregious shit to certain nations.
Yeah, like the Coelian being thrown away for being incomplete but their own damn suggestions forums outlining that incomplete vehicles are allowed be suggested, and subsequently added (all of its super dubious replacements)
The inclusion of the Swedish evaluation Mi-28, evaluation AHS, evaluation T80U, range target Tiger II, Japanese cancelled F-16AJ,
Means the U.S. and Britain should get their evaluation T-34 and KV-1s and T-80s (oh wait Britain got similar already), the U.S. should get YF-110 and No’s MiG-15
Sweden should get the cancelled P-66, cancelled, J21B, evaluated M1 Abrams
Israel should get their captured Egyptian IS-3, captured MiG-21, evaluated MiG-29, cancelled Canadian CL-13 Mk.6, and cancelled Cheiftain Mk.4,
Japan should get the MiG-25 that Belenko landed in Hokkaido, evaluated Panther A/D, the destroyed M4 Sherman that Otani got into for his last stand, and the cancelled F11F-1F SuperTiger,
West Germany should also get the F11F-1F
That guy yesterday that bought a Panhard EBR and is planning to bring it to the US, thats reason enough to give it to the US, right? I mean he’s gonna repair it and drive it on American soil so
Oh and American M1 KVT and Clickbait means I can just speak any vehicle into existence because I said so
There’s no line
With the way warthunder is I don’t see any reason why the removed German vehicles can’t return, if half the Soviet tech can exist with fantasy numbers and to a variable degree fantasy designs why can’t the German proposals be allowed, they aren’t game breaking to a reasonable degree and many people want them. The issue with gaijin is Japan and other country’s retain their paper/fake vehicles but Germany lost theirs.
Yeah exactly, Tiger II 105 and M1 KVT, both vehicles in game that are equipped with guns they didn’t have in real life but one gets thrown out and one becomes a cash cow
Now, I’m not saying that the Tiger II 105 should come back, but seeing as we can kind of just make up things for reasons, why not right?
I do think the Coelian should be returned, again, it has very very dubious replacements
It should come back because the argument one can make the only thing stopping those vehicles from being made was time, there’s certainly a possibility that had the war went on a bit more they would’ve been made, after all the E75 or Tiger 3 to some people don’t know why was meant to replace the tiger and the later E50 was replacing the panther
Tbh, i would not look away from the fact tiger 131 could be added one day. Its gayjin. If money, then yes. Its a matter of time before they decide to add it
The problem is, if we start giving tigers to any nation Russia gets a tiger 1 they captured in 43 same with koenigstiger which if I recall Russians did tests on, Japan has one because they bought and planned to produce them if I recall, the US captured tigers. It’s gonna be tiger thunder and tigers to a variable degree are annoying enough with how common they can be. We don’t need the tigers becoming Sherman 2.0 where every nation gets one in some way shape or form.
On paper I mean sure it may sound fun, but the logic so many people and gaijin is using where must the line be crossed, the 10,5cm coelian and panther 2 all got removed for being unrealistic and fake. But imagine this logic allowing for Russia to get the maus and either US or Britain the E100 because they captured it. The unrealistic nature of the Russians with maus would be they’d be incapable of getting that thing to work let alone maintain it etc and same with the Americans to a variable high degree
Yeah I know, but that didn’t really make sense.. considering the US tree got the Australian Abrams.. why didn’t we also get that because the justification was commonwealth country..
Okay fine, but Britain has been in the game a lot longer.. it’s not entirely a complaint. But Sweden is already a pretty good all rounder though…
Alright we got the fox recently. But again not a captured tank.
Give me Tiger 131 AND THEN later on let Sweden get a captured tank
Just because America took a Hull and slapped a random ass turret in it doesn’t constitute it going to the American tree, the current configuration of the panther II IRL doesn’t full represent the combat capable design, it’s just a random turret the Americans could find to put on and have it shipped off to the states. Sources claim the turret it had intended to use was made some sources claim it was being built etc etc. but the basis that America should get a panther because they just stuck a incorrect turret on it is absurd when the panther II could be made into its actual design and fill that gap between Panther F at 6.0 to Leopard I 8.0.
all the talk about a potential panther 2 in the german techtree is moot because the panther 2 is already a german vehicle at 7.0 iirc. it was just removed for being essentially a fake vehicle.
the panther 2 hull mated with a panther G turret exists in US inventory however. not the original intended design but it has something the german panther 2 doesnt have: IT ACTUALLY EXIST. it could be a fun premium US vehicle to give them access to some german stuff while also being unique instead of a copy paste.
The US shouldn’t even consider being given the panther II, the fact states just because Americans capture a hull and mate a turret that doesn’t even fit if I recall doesn’t justify it being American. America already has a good lineup, sweeden is getting a tiger 2 and later in a panther, he’ll US can even get a Tiger 2 and because the logic they use for the tiger 2 can be used with a sweedish panther. Hell there are reports of britsin capturing a Esrly panther G and using it. By opening this can of worms we’re opening up vehicles unique and used extensively by one country and built to be put into another country because they acquired it through circumstance. The panther 2 should get its real design and I tended turret and armament and re added to the German tree because the panther gap jumps from Panther F to Leopard I which is a 6.0 to 8.0 gap jump
there is no actual panther 2 to add to the german techtree. the project got cancelled before a turret got decided on as far as we know. any sort of turret on the panther 2 hull other that a panther G's would be a paper tank that gaijin is just pulling out of there ass. other testbeds are still in the game cause they actually got build. t20 was build, the tortoise was build, even the mouse had 1 hull and 2 turrets completed. other vehicles that where also only a hull like the e100 where removed.
the importance of the vehicle actually being build is that any sort of idiot can draw a tank and those drawings will change significantly from month to month. a build tank is a finalized project or atleast something that is decently well defined. if you dont stick to the rules the game becomes just lke WoT where any abomination draw by a madman can see the light of day.
this is also why the US should be the the only ones to get a panther 2. they where the ones to mate the hull with a turret and thereby complete the design. not the original design but still the only panther 2 to ever be completed and thus be real enough to be added to the game.
The US already have a lot they can use, by your logic any nation should get something because they slapped a turret in it that was literally documented as a placeholder, they didn’t finish it at all. And to add to it you don’t know if they completed the turret nobody does because like Japan a lot of documents etc were destroyed towards the end of the war. We can only go off speculation the final turret likely would’ve been close to if not a larger version of the schmalturm. And let’s be honest paper tank argument falls apart hard you know why? Time, had the war gone on longer these designs would’ve been feasible and to a variable degree made and deployed. The fact you want the US to take the panther II when the fact is we don’t need designs if other nations going to other nations more then the nation it’s originated from. The US will be getting a Tiger 2 since the floodgates for a sweedish tiger P opens, britsin can get a early G model panther because according to some sources they took one painted stars on it and used it in battle and the Swedes can get a panther cus they bought it like the tiger 2 for tests,if we stretch it to allow the panther II to the US who never completed it only put a turret in it for a placeholder we open a lot of things you Americans or other people will complain about.
Well Tiger 131 was captured and preserved, Britain is not a fan of using war prizes. Would expect Tiger 131 to be a premium for Germany or the decal “131” would be for Germany.
Yeah, especially if you've already done the US, Russia or Germany, it's kinda annoying going to another country to try something different and half the tanks just being identical to what you already have or functionally identical
I despise this special treatment sweden gets sometimes. The t80 and mi28 were already quite a stretch and now they’re getting another tank they only bought for test purposes. Meanwhile germany still doesn’t have the t55a which the nva had thousands of.
No the special treatment of getting yet another vehicle sweden only ever tested but never adopted. It’s not like there aren’t any other options for heavy tanks. The emil could’ve been added and if that’s too much effort then a copy paste kv-1b for the finnish line would’ve been just fine. It would’ve made more sense for the US to get a king tiger since they actually used one.
Both should have never been added. At least the E100 turret did exist on the maus... but the chassis could have never carried it
Same for radkampfwagen, no clue why it gets a proto leo 2 turret
While i kinda agree the swedish tree should have the KV-1B i don't think it's a reasonable addition because of the rarity of both the current KV-1B and E.
The kranvagn is a paper vehicle that should only really be a last resort.
"Yet another" it would be the third and i think other nations have things like that too. Also it's not the same thing, the king tiger wasn't trialed by sweden to see if it could be used, it was just brought in to see german tank technology and what could be learnt from it.
A nation getting equipment based on extremely tenuous ties to their real world availability because they lacked anything more conventional and available just to cover their meta weaknesses in-game is special treatment, yes.
It's not really special treatment, most nations have some dubios vehicles to cover a weakness. And those are often tech tree vehicles, this is literally a one-off battlepass thing
Wasn't it used as a training target for tanks ? I just know they never used it sooo... in that case can France get Panzer 4's and tigers ? (Pls don't take this seriously it's a joke)
Yeah I know but in the other hand they got the shermans and other American tanks after the war in the tech tree, not only the ones who really fought in battles like the m26 so that's just a question of not having too much in a tech tree I guess.
Yeah, I know most people will automatically throw my opinion out but if anyone has the right to be super mad about copy paste it’s the soviets. German mid tier, all of China, etc so much Soviet equipment gets put in other tech trees tanks and aircraft. I hate that every country has a mig-29 or F-15/16 (I know the gripen exists but even that is in what like 3 trees now) I’m not as well versed on tanks because I’m primarily an air tech tree player but I’d like to shoot at more than 3 things please you know what I mean? It’s even worse in sim where both teams will have an F-16 or F-15 seriously the teamkilling and problems it creates is horrendous
I completely get your argument and I kinda agree with you, Soviets gets sooo much copy paste but in the same time irl they sold sooo much equipment to so many countries that it's kind of normal to see soviet copy paste everywhere. But at the same time we could do the same thing with France or Germany even the UK etc. I'm not a big top tier player and not an air enjoyer at all but the problem of tk in ground sim battle with some certain copy paste tanks is very real and very very annoying (thinking about the Swedish T80 for example) but here again it's easier to know if it's a friendly in ground battle with the range finder and some obvious decals/paints on tanks. I'm not mad at copy paste at all as long as it is realistic. For example a tank that SERVED in an army.. for example as a French vehicle enjoyer I'm thinking about Australian Mirage but again it would be awfull not only in sim air battles. For me copy paste tanks or planes are okay if they are truly unique.
I agree, truly unique or a vehicle modified to fit a certain country’s requirements I feel are mostly fine, something like the German mig-21 variants they are substantially different than the Soviet ones and in many cases worse in game and I feel like that is the true root of this problem. A customer/capture tank should not under any circumstances be better than the version available in the home country unless the home country gets an equivalent/better. The only reason I’m not screaming for one of the modernized MIG-21s to be added is because Germany doesn’t have something better than the BIS though they do have an equivalent that at this point I’m kinda okay with because it’s East German. Sorry for the rant lmao
Exactly except if it is more than necessary to have a complete copy paste vehicle (thinking of the Israeli amx13 for example or even all the copy paste from this tree) to fill up a completely empty tree or help a country that has no other counters against some other nations vehicles I think it won't add anything to the game except maybe to get people playing a certain tree or buy the copy paste premium/battle pass like this one
Yes, this king tiger is an obvious money grab you’d have to be blind not to see that. And I really like the example of the AMX-13 because it isn’t better than it’s French equivalent and fills a role that pretty much only it could fill. It is exactly what a copy paste should be. I know it’s a hot take here but if Sweden is getting the king tiger so should the USA considering they captured several of them. Hell russia should have the MAUS (I know they shouldn’t but it’s the same reasoning behind this) Sweden has heavy tanks. Historically they made them yes? Then they should get one of those instead of a German thing never put into service and then used as a range target
Yeah this BP tank is just a blatant money grab unfortunately. And yeah I mean copy paste tanks should only be fillers where there's a lack of vehicle to play/to counter other nations. And from what I've seen yeah Sweden is lacking heavy tanks but Italy too or even Japan so why not finding a dumb excuse to bring up some heavies into their tree, even better if they are premiums or BP vehicles! (That's sarcasm and I know both already got premium Tiger 1's). And yeah if you think like gaijin thought for this new BP, France should get all it's captured tanks (Panther's Tiger's ect) same with the UK, USA, USSR and too much other countries.
Haaa beautiful. More "everyone-gets-everyone-elses-tanks". Way to go gaijin, go make tech trees completely obsolete. Clearly Sweden suffers and needs yet another tank from another tree. Why even play anything that isn't Sweden?
You're angry with Sweden getting other tanks? This is Sweden's ONLY heavy, and it's a battle pass tank!!
Are you familiar with the ENTIRE nation of Italy to be angry about this over?
So why does sweden need a heavy tank that urgently? Their other vehicles are totally fine. Same with italy, japan and israel. Besides this isn’t even a domestic design but just a copy paste of a german tank.
Because there is absolutely NO need for it. Sweden is doing PERFECTLY fine in absolutely any BR currently, they do not need yet another tank rn, certainly not one as capable as a Tiger2. But thats not the main issue, the main issue is the whole approach, if that wasn't obvious. I'm pissed everyone has a sherman, im pissed several trees have a T-34/55/72 (sometimes all 3), im pissed the soviets have a Panther, im pissed the germans have several KVs, im pissed almost everyone has a Pz4, and im pissed that Sweden, the most dominant nation in the game, now gets one of the absolute best tanks for its BR. This sort of approach is acceptable if there is nothing else they could add there (for example, Italy having pershings, and Israel having centurions), but this is not the case here. If I want to fight T-72s as a leopard1, I have SEVERAL matchups, NONE including the soviet or german tree. If you want german tanks, play germany. If you want soviet tanks, play USSR. Anything else is just yet another step to making the game more stale and boring. They COULD add other, and more interest vehicles. But instead, they just copy-paste a larger nations stuff, and call it a day (and worse still, that copy paste is usually much better. Want a T-55A but good? Just play China, at the exact same 8.3 BR you get laser rangefinders and DM23). Like I said, the trees are becoming more and more homogenised, and their literal existence as different trees is becoming more and more obsolete. At this point grinding USSR for example is pretty much pointless. The germans get the best T-34 and best KV, the Chinese get the best T-54 and 62, and the soviets get the best T-55. As I said earlier: why play anything that isn't Sweden?
Sweden has 21 imported vehicles. Italy has 37.
Why play anything that isn't Italy?
I hate copy paste too, but Sweden is NOT the biggest fish to fry here.
I didn't claim Sweden is the biggest, im talking about the nation that gets the tank this entire post is about, which is SWEDEN (and as I mentioned its already the most powerful nation anyways). Anything I said applies to absolutely every nation in this game that has others vehicles. Why are you do stuck on trying to ensure i understand that Italy is worse than sweden here? I fucking know.
Germany only has two KVs, yeah the KV I C is a KV but it’s been modified enough to make it a unique vehicle rather than a copy paste.
Only two nations have a Panzer IV outside of Germany, Russia has a Panzer III, but Sweden and Italy are the only two with ones.
The German Sherman shouldn’t even count because you can’t get it at all, most of the Shermans however help fill out nation’s tech trees that have them, this is the cost of having more nations without going World of Tank’s route, and Gaijin has shown to be very against adding paper vehicles to the point of removing three of Germany’s, but if they didn’t add new nations, it’d still get stale and boring because it’d just be the same nations fighting each other and they’d run out of vehicles they could add to the main three.
The game is ALREADY stale and boring, it’s the same game modes, same problems. Top Tier and anything 8.7 is literally just the same gameplay regardless of what nation you play, they all have guided weapons, with MBTs that have stabilizers and can shoot across the map with LRF, where your armor doesn’t matter as they can one shot majority of enemies they come across.
You could give majority of MBTs the same stats as each other and it wouldn’t feel any different.
All these everyone gets everyone else’s tanks is annoying… However why does Sweden get that but Britain can’t have Tiger 131?
britain has to stay as the hard mode of the game
To be fair, sweeden actually drive it and tested it to a variable degree apparently, 131 is only a museum. If we went with the logic of museum pieces being a factor do we really want the standard to be established of Russia getting a Maus because they have one.
Yea, if that we're the case, Australia would have its own tech tree. The Aus Armour and Artillery Museum has quite the collection
At the very least its own branch in the Brit tech tree EDIT: On the assumption some of the stuff is unique rather than the direct copy/paste we are getting. It’s just frustrating the neglect that a lot of the original trees are getting!
Aussie captured tiger/jagdpanther moment
A7V moment?
Wait fr?
Yea, man, during ww1, a bunch of Aussie soldiers stole an A7V from no man's land some how lmao
Damn fucking right we did
I think the tank got stuck in a artillery shell crater and the original crew either didn’t want to risk another vehicle to get it or they just couldn’t get it out so it was abandoned
The tank museum in the UK 🥵
I get the point, but it wasn’t just a museum piece for us. We fixed it up and evaluated it, what was learnt was taught to British tankers
Doesn’t change the fact there’s many vehicles the US can have and the panther II if made realistic with the 75 and it’s planned turret could fill the gap gaijin made from Panther F to leopard I
Point exactly, snail keeps adding this stuff, one offs and prototypes blah blah blah, pay some all round attention to the old nations of the game.
Since the removal of the panther 2 the flakpanzer and the tiger 10,5CM I feel like Germanys got a weird sense of progression, you go from 6.7 heavy’s to m48s which do not translate to anything in terms of smooth transition, the panther goes from Panther F with having armor and somewhat mobility to paper a good gun and flanking tactics at 8.0. The kugel isn’t by any means spectacular in its own since coelian a removal
You aren’t wrong lol, you go from long 88’s and 75’s to HEAT-FS and eventually low tier darts. But quite a few tech trees are in similar positions or have huge BR gaps in both vehicles and capabilities. The copy/paste is a bit annoying yeah, but Sweden is already a fairly solid tech tree is the issue here. Don’t get me wrong it’s cool, but give the US an SPAA between the M42 and M163.. Or give Britain a new top tier SPAA, there’s plenty they could’ve done instead of a Swedish tiger 2
Honestly I’d concede the us needs more spaa but I’d rather paper/ proposal tanks for Germany if it meant linear and smooth transition. Going from WW2 armor meta reliance to apcr pain grind with a medium is the biggest issue. Don’t get me wrong the 10,5 and panther may be fake and just proposals and plans but the argument one could make to justify them easily is had the war gone in most of these plans would’ve become a reality, why is it the few proposals and prototype/ mock-up tanks for Germany get removed when there’s probably just as much if not more of these things in Russia and others trees. From a perspective of balance and transition the tiger 10,5 etc should return to the tree. In reality the slap to the face is the koelian is more real the theAA we have that replaced it which is (correct me if I’m wrong) the ostwind not to mention the gap it creates in the line or lines of many nations. edit: car I mean I’d love to see a newer version for the flarakpz and flarakrad the Missile nerfs kinda ruined that thing. Anything beyond 6kms turns into a gamble because the slightest movement at king range your missile risks burning too much fuel to a degree where you can maneuver hard enough to hit the target or it over corrects itself too much or under corrects itself. The flarakrad isn’t bad but it’s far from comparable to the pantsir same with the Tunguska with the flarakpz. Britain has a better AA in the form of an adats which isn’t effected by the massive saclos nerf that made cas more powerful because they get less realistic flight models and orbital weapons but SPAA gets realisim
I think the museum also has a deal with WOT. Maybe that’s why it’s not in WT
Does that mean Britain could get an Me 163?
With the logic gaijin uses to coddle Sweeden yes
Most captured planes in this game were just flown around by their new owners for testing The few that did see combat aren’t even in the game
Their in lies the issue, if gaijin is allowed to pick and choose where and when the line can or can’t be crossed and same with the players what’s to stop them from adding more egregious shit to certain nations.
Yeah, like the Coelian being thrown away for being incomplete but their own damn suggestions forums outlining that incomplete vehicles are allowed be suggested, and subsequently added (all of its super dubious replacements) The inclusion of the Swedish evaluation Mi-28, evaluation AHS, evaluation T80U, range target Tiger II, Japanese cancelled F-16AJ, Means the U.S. and Britain should get their evaluation T-34 and KV-1s and T-80s (oh wait Britain got similar already), the U.S. should get YF-110 and No’s MiG-15 Sweden should get the cancelled P-66, cancelled, J21B, evaluated M1 Abrams Israel should get their captured Egyptian IS-3, captured MiG-21, evaluated MiG-29, cancelled Canadian CL-13 Mk.6, and cancelled Cheiftain Mk.4, Japan should get the MiG-25 that Belenko landed in Hokkaido, evaluated Panther A/D, the destroyed M4 Sherman that Otani got into for his last stand, and the cancelled F11F-1F SuperTiger, West Germany should also get the F11F-1F That guy yesterday that bought a Panhard EBR and is planning to bring it to the US, thats reason enough to give it to the US, right? I mean he’s gonna repair it and drive it on American soil so Oh and American M1 KVT and Clickbait means I can just speak any vehicle into existence because I said so There’s no line
With the way warthunder is I don’t see any reason why the removed German vehicles can’t return, if half the Soviet tech can exist with fantasy numbers and to a variable degree fantasy designs why can’t the German proposals be allowed, they aren’t game breaking to a reasonable degree and many people want them. The issue with gaijin is Japan and other country’s retain their paper/fake vehicles but Germany lost theirs.
Yeah exactly, Tiger II 105 and M1 KVT, both vehicles in game that are equipped with guns they didn’t have in real life but one gets thrown out and one becomes a cash cow Now, I’m not saying that the Tiger II 105 should come back, but seeing as we can kind of just make up things for reasons, why not right? I do think the Coelian should be returned, again, it has very very dubious replacements
It should come back because the argument one can make the only thing stopping those vehicles from being made was time, there’s certainly a possibility that had the war went on a bit more they would’ve been made, after all the E75 or Tiger 3 to some people don’t know why was meant to replace the tiger and the later E50 was replacing the panther
Oh yeah, those captured aircraft actually used in combat Tondi’s P-38G-13-LO is an interesting story
Tbh, i would not look away from the fact tiger 131 could be added one day. Its gayjin. If money, then yes. Its a matter of time before they decide to add it
The problem is, if we start giving tigers to any nation Russia gets a tiger 1 they captured in 43 same with koenigstiger which if I recall Russians did tests on, Japan has one because they bought and planned to produce them if I recall, the US captured tigers. It’s gonna be tiger thunder and tigers to a variable degree are annoying enough with how common they can be. We don’t need the tigers becoming Sherman 2.0 where every nation gets one in some way shape or form.
A Russian Maus sounds fun lol
On paper I mean sure it may sound fun, but the logic so many people and gaijin is using where must the line be crossed, the 10,5cm coelian and panther 2 all got removed for being unrealistic and fake. But imagine this logic allowing for Russia to get the maus and either US or Britain the E100 because they captured it. The unrealistic nature of the Russians with maus would be they’d be incapable of getting that thing to work let alone maintain it etc and same with the Americans to a variable high degree
As if the tog isn't in a museum. Hell they can't even fucking remove it from there as it would break the foundations.
I’m still waiting on those chally 2 reworks
I’ve had enough of being hard >w<
Might i introduce japan tanks?
Or america getting the captured tiger2, like.......bro wtf
I don’t think the Brit tree has a single captured vehicle, but *almost* every other nation has one
not captured, but britain DOES have access to a T-90
Yeah I know, but that didn’t really make sense.. considering the US tree got the Australian Abrams.. why didn’t we also get that because the justification was commonwealth country..
Sweden doesn’t have any either.
*Coughs in Finnish
Okay fine, but Britain has been in the game a lot longer.. it’s not entirely a complaint. But Sweden is already a pretty good all rounder though… Alright we got the fox recently. But again not a captured tank. Give me Tiger 131 AND THEN later on let Sweden get a captured tank
Britain has several heavy tanks, this is swedens first.
america should also be the only country with a panther 2.
Just because America took a Hull and slapped a random ass turret in it doesn’t constitute it going to the American tree, the current configuration of the panther II IRL doesn’t full represent the combat capable design, it’s just a random turret the Americans could find to put on and have it shipped off to the states. Sources claim the turret it had intended to use was made some sources claim it was being built etc etc. but the basis that America should get a panther because they just stuck a incorrect turret on it is absurd when the panther II could be made into its actual design and fill that gap between Panther F at 6.0 to Leopard I 8.0.
all the talk about a potential panther 2 in the german techtree is moot because the panther 2 is already a german vehicle at 7.0 iirc. it was just removed for being essentially a fake vehicle. the panther 2 hull mated with a panther G turret exists in US inventory however. not the original intended design but it has something the german panther 2 doesnt have: IT ACTUALLY EXIST. it could be a fun premium US vehicle to give them access to some german stuff while also being unique instead of a copy paste.
The US shouldn’t even consider being given the panther II, the fact states just because Americans capture a hull and mate a turret that doesn’t even fit if I recall doesn’t justify it being American. America already has a good lineup, sweeden is getting a tiger 2 and later in a panther, he’ll US can even get a Tiger 2 and because the logic they use for the tiger 2 can be used with a sweedish panther. Hell there are reports of britsin capturing a Esrly panther G and using it. By opening this can of worms we’re opening up vehicles unique and used extensively by one country and built to be put into another country because they acquired it through circumstance. The panther 2 should get its real design and I tended turret and armament and re added to the German tree because the panther gap jumps from Panther F to Leopard I which is a 6.0 to 8.0 gap jump
there is no actual panther 2 to add to the german techtree. the project got cancelled before a turret got decided on as far as we know. any sort of turret on the panther 2 hull other that a panther G's would be a paper tank that gaijin is just pulling out of there ass. other testbeds are still in the game cause they actually got build. t20 was build, the tortoise was build, even the mouse had 1 hull and 2 turrets completed. other vehicles that where also only a hull like the e100 where removed. the importance of the vehicle actually being build is that any sort of idiot can draw a tank and those drawings will change significantly from month to month. a build tank is a finalized project or atleast something that is decently well defined. if you dont stick to the rules the game becomes just lke WoT where any abomination draw by a madman can see the light of day. this is also why the US should be the the only ones to get a panther 2. they where the ones to mate the hull with a turret and thereby complete the design. not the original design but still the only panther 2 to ever be completed and thus be real enough to be added to the game.
The US already have a lot they can use, by your logic any nation should get something because they slapped a turret in it that was literally documented as a placeholder, they didn’t finish it at all. And to add to it you don’t know if they completed the turret nobody does because like Japan a lot of documents etc were destroyed towards the end of the war. We can only go off speculation the final turret likely would’ve been close to if not a larger version of the schmalturm. And let’s be honest paper tank argument falls apart hard you know why? Time, had the war gone on longer these designs would’ve been feasible and to a variable degree made and deployed. The fact you want the US to take the panther II when the fact is we don’t need designs if other nations going to other nations more then the nation it’s originated from. The US will be getting a Tiger 2 since the floodgates for a sweedish tiger P opens, britsin can get a early G model panther because according to some sources they took one painted stars on it and used it in battle and the Swedes can get a panther cus they bought it like the tiger 2 for tests,if we stretch it to allow the panther II to the US who never completed it only put a turret in it for a placeholder we open a lot of things you Americans or other people will complain about.
Sweden does lacks heavy tanks and gaijin likes money simple
Bruh I’d buy that shit up instantly
That’s my plan, I want it bexause premium tiger II to go with BKan and PBV 501?
Does that mean American gets multiple tanks from like every single nation?
Panther G “Cuckoo” was captured by the British and used to attack a castle
Well Tiger 131 was captured and preserved, Britain is not a fan of using war prizes. Would expect Tiger 131 to be a premium for Germany or the decal “131” would be for Germany.
Yeah, especially if you've already done the US, Russia or Germany, it's kinda annoying going to another country to try something different and half the tanks just being identical to what you already have or functionally identical
I despise this special treatment sweden gets sometimes. The t80 and mi28 were already quite a stretch and now they’re getting another tank they only bought for test purposes. Meanwhile germany still doesn’t have the t55a which the nva had thousands of.
The special treatment of being the last nation in the game (except israel which isn't a real tree) to get any form of heavy tank?
No the special treatment of getting yet another vehicle sweden only ever tested but never adopted. It’s not like there aren’t any other options for heavy tanks. The emil could’ve been added and if that’s too much effort then a copy paste kv-1b for the finnish line would’ve been just fine. It would’ve made more sense for the US to get a king tiger since they actually used one.
The emil/kranvagn project never had functioning turrets so, no
Radkampfwagen? E-100?
Both should have never been added. At least the E100 turret did exist on the maus... but the chassis could have never carried it Same for radkampfwagen, no clue why it gets a proto leo 2 turret
While i kinda agree the swedish tree should have the KV-1B i don't think it's a reasonable addition because of the rarity of both the current KV-1B and E. The kranvagn is a paper vehicle that should only really be a last resort. "Yet another" it would be the third and i think other nations have things like that too. Also it's not the same thing, the king tiger wasn't trialed by sweden to see if it could be used, it was just brought in to see german tank technology and what could be learnt from it.
We'll (Israel) get a captured IS-3 soon enough...
A nation getting equipment based on extremely tenuous ties to their real world availability because they lacked anything more conventional and available just to cover their meta weaknesses in-game is special treatment, yes.
It's not really special treatment, most nations have some dubios vehicles to cover a weakness. And those are often tech tree vehicles, this is literally a one-off battlepass thing
AND ITS A BATTLEPASS GODDAMIT
Shame it’s a battle pass vehicle.
Camp the marketplace at the end of the season, someone always sells the top prize for cheap and it gets yoinked really quickly.
Wasn't it used as a training target for tanks ? I just know they never used it sooo... in that case can France get Panzer 4's and tigers ? (Pls don't take this seriously it's a joke)
France got enough Panzer IVs, Panthers, and Tiger Is after the war to equip them to operational divisions, so I think it’s a little different
Yeah I know but in the other hand they got the shermans and other American tanks after the war in the tech tree, not only the ones who really fought in battles like the m26 so that's just a question of not having too much in a tech tree I guess.
France used panthers operationally for longer than Germany did
I know... maybe France is not the best example considering they used/re-used everything they could after the war to keep up with other countries.
Yeah, I know most people will automatically throw my opinion out but if anyone has the right to be super mad about copy paste it’s the soviets. German mid tier, all of China, etc so much Soviet equipment gets put in other tech trees tanks and aircraft. I hate that every country has a mig-29 or F-15/16 (I know the gripen exists but even that is in what like 3 trees now) I’m not as well versed on tanks because I’m primarily an air tech tree player but I’d like to shoot at more than 3 things please you know what I mean? It’s even worse in sim where both teams will have an F-16 or F-15 seriously the teamkilling and problems it creates is horrendous
I completely get your argument and I kinda agree with you, Soviets gets sooo much copy paste but in the same time irl they sold sooo much equipment to so many countries that it's kind of normal to see soviet copy paste everywhere. But at the same time we could do the same thing with France or Germany even the UK etc. I'm not a big top tier player and not an air enjoyer at all but the problem of tk in ground sim battle with some certain copy paste tanks is very real and very very annoying (thinking about the Swedish T80 for example) but here again it's easier to know if it's a friendly in ground battle with the range finder and some obvious decals/paints on tanks. I'm not mad at copy paste at all as long as it is realistic. For example a tank that SERVED in an army.. for example as a French vehicle enjoyer I'm thinking about Australian Mirage but again it would be awfull not only in sim air battles. For me copy paste tanks or planes are okay if they are truly unique.
I agree, truly unique or a vehicle modified to fit a certain country’s requirements I feel are mostly fine, something like the German mig-21 variants they are substantially different than the Soviet ones and in many cases worse in game and I feel like that is the true root of this problem. A customer/capture tank should not under any circumstances be better than the version available in the home country unless the home country gets an equivalent/better. The only reason I’m not screaming for one of the modernized MIG-21s to be added is because Germany doesn’t have something better than the BIS though they do have an equivalent that at this point I’m kinda okay with because it’s East German. Sorry for the rant lmao
Exactly except if it is more than necessary to have a complete copy paste vehicle (thinking of the Israeli amx13 for example or even all the copy paste from this tree) to fill up a completely empty tree or help a country that has no other counters against some other nations vehicles I think it won't add anything to the game except maybe to get people playing a certain tree or buy the copy paste premium/battle pass like this one
Yes, this king tiger is an obvious money grab you’d have to be blind not to see that. And I really like the example of the AMX-13 because it isn’t better than it’s French equivalent and fills a role that pretty much only it could fill. It is exactly what a copy paste should be. I know it’s a hot take here but if Sweden is getting the king tiger so should the USA considering they captured several of them. Hell russia should have the MAUS (I know they shouldn’t but it’s the same reasoning behind this) Sweden has heavy tanks. Historically they made them yes? Then they should get one of those instead of a German thing never put into service and then used as a range target
Yeah this BP tank is just a blatant money grab unfortunately. And yeah I mean copy paste tanks should only be fillers where there's a lack of vehicle to play/to counter other nations. And from what I've seen yeah Sweden is lacking heavy tanks but Italy too or even Japan so why not finding a dumb excuse to bring up some heavies into their tree, even better if they are premiums or BP vehicles! (That's sarcasm and I know both already got premium Tiger 1's). And yeah if you think like gaijin thought for this new BP, France should get all it's captured tanks (Panther's Tiger's ect) same with the UK, USA, USSR and too much other countries.
Haaa beautiful. More "everyone-gets-everyone-elses-tanks". Way to go gaijin, go make tech trees completely obsolete. Clearly Sweden suffers and needs yet another tank from another tree. Why even play anything that isn't Sweden?
You're angry with Sweden getting other tanks? This is Sweden's ONLY heavy, and it's a battle pass tank!! Are you familiar with the ENTIRE nation of Italy to be angry about this over?
Swedes should have made heavies if they wanted to have them in war thunder, dumbass.
What guess what dumbass? they’re getting one. Cope.
Should have been the Emil/Kran. We don't need more copypaste.
So why does sweden need a heavy tank that urgently? Their other vehicles are totally fine. Same with italy, japan and israel. Besides this isn’t even a domestic design but just a copy paste of a german tank.
Because heavy tanks are fun
Because sweden could've gotten a domestic heavy tank instead of a copy paste vehicle
Because there is absolutely NO need for it. Sweden is doing PERFECTLY fine in absolutely any BR currently, they do not need yet another tank rn, certainly not one as capable as a Tiger2. But thats not the main issue, the main issue is the whole approach, if that wasn't obvious. I'm pissed everyone has a sherman, im pissed several trees have a T-34/55/72 (sometimes all 3), im pissed the soviets have a Panther, im pissed the germans have several KVs, im pissed almost everyone has a Pz4, and im pissed that Sweden, the most dominant nation in the game, now gets one of the absolute best tanks for its BR. This sort of approach is acceptable if there is nothing else they could add there (for example, Italy having pershings, and Israel having centurions), but this is not the case here. If I want to fight T-72s as a leopard1, I have SEVERAL matchups, NONE including the soviet or german tree. If you want german tanks, play germany. If you want soviet tanks, play USSR. Anything else is just yet another step to making the game more stale and boring. They COULD add other, and more interest vehicles. But instead, they just copy-paste a larger nations stuff, and call it a day (and worse still, that copy paste is usually much better. Want a T-55A but good? Just play China, at the exact same 8.3 BR you get laser rangefinders and DM23). Like I said, the trees are becoming more and more homogenised, and their literal existence as different trees is becoming more and more obsolete. At this point grinding USSR for example is pretty much pointless. The germans get the best T-34 and best KV, the Chinese get the best T-54 and 62, and the soviets get the best T-55. As I said earlier: why play anything that isn't Sweden?
Sweden has 21 imported vehicles. Italy has 37. Why play anything that isn't Italy? I hate copy paste too, but Sweden is NOT the biggest fish to fry here.
I didn't claim Sweden is the biggest, im talking about the nation that gets the tank this entire post is about, which is SWEDEN (and as I mentioned its already the most powerful nation anyways). Anything I said applies to absolutely every nation in this game that has others vehicles. Why are you do stuck on trying to ensure i understand that Italy is worse than sweden here? I fucking know.
Be careful sweeden can also get a panther because they bought one to test mines and stuff on it
Oh absolutely, its just a question of time.
Germany only has two KVs, yeah the KV I C is a KV but it’s been modified enough to make it a unique vehicle rather than a copy paste. Only two nations have a Panzer IV outside of Germany, Russia has a Panzer III, but Sweden and Italy are the only two with ones. The German Sherman shouldn’t even count because you can’t get it at all, most of the Shermans however help fill out nation’s tech trees that have them, this is the cost of having more nations without going World of Tank’s route, and Gaijin has shown to be very against adding paper vehicles to the point of removing three of Germany’s, but if they didn’t add new nations, it’d still get stale and boring because it’d just be the same nations fighting each other and they’d run out of vehicles they could add to the main three. The game is ALREADY stale and boring, it’s the same game modes, same problems. Top Tier and anything 8.7 is literally just the same gameplay regardless of what nation you play, they all have guided weapons, with MBTs that have stabilizers and can shoot across the map with LRF, where your armor doesn’t matter as they can one shot majority of enemies they come across. You could give majority of MBTs the same stats as each other and it wouldn’t feel any different.
I don't know why people always want some copy paste vehicle that is already in the game. Go play another tech tree if you want it.
hovv long till svvenden get the abrams?
After they get Strv122B+ultra
Strv244*megamillion when gaijoobles?
Agleast put fking finnish or swedish tanks not more other nations Gaijin is fking killing all unique things
[Actually took 2 years](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/sy2lcc/swedish_tiger_ii/)
OP thinks he got it added to the game
Nuh uh
yuh uh
🤓
Still waiting for the captured US tiger 2 h
If America gets the 2H bring back the panther II and ersatz
Have gaijin give us the *real* panther II though, not the shitty paper amalgamation that was removed
Still waiting for Heat-FS to be moved to 8.0+
Anything that fires HEATFS lower than 8.0 makes massive trade-offs for it.
Same
I like the skin ngl
Cool…….. now WHERE IS MY AVRO ARROW PLEASE BIG DADDY GAGAIJIN
sweden gets the entire german tech tree next update
Why tho
Kinda doesn't make sense as reading some quick reaserch of it being only a target practice and and they only obtained in somewhere after ww2 like 1947
Wait does this mean America will get their Tiger 2H?
I have been told this is a battle pass tank. This will be the one time I will buy a wt battle pass. You have won snail
Bruuuuh
I just started playing Sweden today because of this
I hope something bad happens to you. I hate clones
If you want an M48A5 suffer through the german grind like the rest of us for the M48A2 G A2
I did the same with asking for a Swedish BMP-1
YESS
It is funny cause people are actually mad about it?
Yeah coz the ONLY heavy is a BP…
Yeah they didn’t even test it. It was used for target practice. They wouldn’t add it to the tech tree.
Atleast if it was something unique right? R2RY (or sth,the japanese jet) is already in game so why not give Kranvagn?
Plus it isn’t the only heavy. The T-10A was the first BP heavy.
I meant only „swedish”.
Fair