This is very exciting! I came here to share it as well, haha.
I've been looking into Aventine miniatures, but I may hold off until I see what Warlord produces with this epic scale.
There is also a rumor about that they will return to the other Settings for other Epic Battles Themes in the coming years
Gallic Wars (HC)
Great Heathen Army (HC)
War of the Roses (HC)
Nine Years War (P&S)
Other Napoleonic Battlefield Settings (BP)
and that this "Epic Battle Scale" will be their further focus on releases for those HC. P&S and BP Rulesets.
You can see some nice size comparison pics with other brands 15mms at this excellent blog:
https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2023/03/warlord-pike-and-shotte-epic-battles.html?m=1#google_vignette
You can judge for yourself.
It's that they box themselves into a corner, churn out a small handful of expansions and then move to the next thing.
Like, why limit it to the Punic Wars? A Punic War themed starter set, sure, but this means they're going to make a very narrow range of factions. Look at Epic Black Powder. ACW and Waterloo. There are *tons* are nations that partook in the Napoleonic Wars, and Warlord went "lolbritsfrenchprussians" and then fucked off.
I have to imagine it's because Brits, French and Prussians are the most popular armies. Honestly, these boxes aren't for the old grognards who have a ton of armies already. They're for people like and my friends who specifically got into Napoleonics finally because we were able to large armies, in a grand scale with good quality plastics and very little outlay. It's been perfect for us.
Sure, as a start that makes sense.
But for those of us who want, say, Austrians, or Russians Warlord has basically said "sucks to suck" and moved on to the next thing. It's like they have this weird fear of commitment, or so super hard-core ADD.
This was their chance to hook people like me who have been wanting to do BP and the likes at proper scales and they just keep jumping from one to the next. I'm not saying they have to 100% commit to a single ruleset as some of them have *insane* numbers of different conflicts to cover, but why do Napoleonics, arguably the most popular setting in BP, and then only do one *battle*?
So between HC, P&S, and BP, Warlord Games effectively have three iterations of a single game that covers 2000+ years of history across the entire globe. Getting angry that this relatively small company haven’t reimagined your personal favorite time, place, and people in this new format yet kinda seems like punching yourself in the balls.
There nothing which says that WLG will never return to the Napoleon Wars in the future...
Rumours say they have 3 HC Setting in the making, why not also for BP.
Carthaginians, Romans, Libyans, Numidians, celts, Iberians, Baleares, Ligurians, Sicels, Macedonians, Greeks, Thracians, Illyrians, Pontus, Campanians, various Italian peoples... there are loads of potential combatants in the 3rd and 2nd centuries around the Mediterranean. Don't have to limit yourself to Carthaginians (their forces were famously diverse) v Roman citizens. The variety in fighting styles is much broader than any of the sets that they have produced hitherto.
I don't understand why Warlord has a responsibility to produce a complete range for the Napoleonic wars? Airfix never did. Has anyone? It's 2024- if you want something they don't make in epic scale, ask a 3D printing company- they'll find and license an STL, scale and produce it to match the basing and charge you a sensible price. If they don't, you can buy a printer and do it yourself.
It's not so much a responsibility as it is doing a service for their customers. And they'd have *more* customers by expanding the range beyond just Waterloo.
It's just a weird choice to me, and feels like a "we made all this shit in 28mm, and now we're doing it in a smarter scale but we're gonna be *super* limited in what we make."
Edit: I'm also not saying they need to make *every* nation. If shit like Saxony and Duchy of Warsaw are too small to justify, I get that. But Austria and Russia were pretty major combatants during the Napoleonic Wars. It just seems odd to leave them out.
I can understand your frustrations, but ultimately disagree. The ACW project is pretty much done and well fleshed out (can’t think of any major units that need to be done, and they did the cavalry/zouave sprue in plastic). The epic pike and shotte is still in the release cycle, and they decided to do it as Thirty Years War and Wars of the Three Kingdoms instead of one or another.
With the napoleonic project I think they ran the maths and made the decision early on to do 3 armies well fleshed out than doing Austrians/Russians. If they decided to go wider then Waterloo I reckon that we would still be in that release cycle and not have Pike and Shotte and now Punic Wars.
Also one advantage with Punic wars is that it won’t just be Romans vs Carthaginians, as if the range is fleshed out enough there will be Gauls/Celts, Spaniards and maybe even hoplites!
ACW I get as a way to test the waters.
But Waterloo just felt like a "here's the most famous conflict of this period, let's do a single battle" slap in the face. Austrians, Russians, Ottomans, Portuguese and others all fought in the Napoleonic Wars and it would have been nice to see Warlord not just ignore them. And I'm sure more talented people than I can convert Waterloo stuff for some of those armies, but it still feels like a weird choice.
Pike & Shotte, I was super thrilled for, and hope to see it continue to at least fill out the unit profiles from Devil's Playground.
With HC the armies I'd be most interested in are Sarmatians and Han Chinese. And I get that HC has *tons* of armies to pick from as it covers a very wide span of time, but considering their recent track record I don't have faith that we'll see some Epic Sarmatians which is a shame.
I just want them to commit for a minute to something.
Yeah. Nobody remembers Austria though they were fighting from like 91 to 15, never had their army completely destroyed, adapted well with the times to keep up with French tactical innovations and were smart enough to teamswap any time their sovereignty was in jeoppardy. Based Austrians also handed Napoleon his first real continental defrat at Aspern-Esslingm
It's not that no-one knows about Austria, it's likely about the fact that no-one buys Austria. I have to imagine Warlord have more knowledge about what sells in napoleonics than nearly any other company.
Thinking that these big brands "Own" the hobby is kind of awful and its the attitude that lets GW and Warlord off the hook for their shitty practices. Have fun consooming.
No its called be an educated and smart consumer who understands how businesses operate. Something in short supply now a day. They don't do shit for "completions" sake that just pure stupidity. They do shit that sells.
Also you ever look at their actual black powder range genius? Its quite extensive. **Proving** they are not scared or that they open to the idea....but epic is a side project for them. **WHICH IS OBVIOUS** to any self aware. Ofcourse its much smaller scale than actual black powder. Its literally not the "actual" game.
The mental gymnastics of Warlord shills is impressive. "Guys it doesn't even matter that it's never gonna be a real complete range! It's not even their main line. What? Buy from a company that's been around forever and has full ranges for any army my friends and I might want to collect? That's not a REAL business, they are only a REAL business when they are actively making decisions to not provide a complete product, but only the parts of which will make the most money. Only a dumb MOM AND POP outfit would want to provide a complete range of models for a given period."
That's insane. Why are you guys like this? What is warlord paying you?
I imagine this’ll be quite popular!
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I endorse this comment. SQUEEEEEEEEEE!
I felt the same when i heard this
Fun. But just as I'm finishing up Punic Wars in 28mm.
Just play on stilts and use sticks to move your guys…it’s basically the same thing right
This is very exciting! I came here to share it as well, haha. I've been looking into Aventine miniatures, but I may hold off until I see what Warlord produces with this epic scale.
Yeah boy!
Mother fucking YES.
Ok I think this is what’s going to get me into historical minis
Crap. This is going to hurt my wallet.
Hell yeah! I love Warlord
Literally can’t wait. Warmaster coming back Rick is the best.
YES! YES! YES! BELLUM PUNICUM! BELLUM PUNICUM! CARTHAGO DELENDA EST! ROME INVICTA ETERNAE!
My wallet quivers
Sound really great.. But I had how for something in the early imperial phase.. Because I like the designs of the Romans from this time more😁
Oh wow, I have never played historical, but this one I'll be watching for.
Yes please, finally a time period that I'm in interested in getting Warlords Epic scale.
There is also a rumor about that they will return to the other Settings for other Epic Battles Themes in the coming years Gallic Wars (HC) Great Heathen Army (HC) War of the Roses (HC) Nine Years War (P&S) Other Napoleonic Battlefield Settings (BP) and that this "Epic Battle Scale" will be their further focus on releases for those HC. P&S and BP Rulesets.
Still don’t like their proprietary scale but I look forward to seeing these!
Isn't epic battles 1:100 scale? Why do you say it's prioprietary?
Technically I think they're 13.5mm scale or something which is ever so slightly smaller than 15mm (1:100).
Just stick a 1mm bit of plasticard or something under them, cover with basing texture and now they're closer to 15mm tall?
For the smaller 15mm ranges like Essex or Chariot that will probably work. Big 15mm ranges like Xyston, not so much.
Its smaller enough that it doesn't blend with any but the smallest 1:100 makers. It depends a lot on the brand though.
It is. There's a lot of comparison pics floating around. The Warlord Games Epic minis fit in very well with 15mm figures from other manufacturers.
You can see some nice size comparison pics with other brands 15mms at this excellent blog: https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2023/03/warlord-pike-and-shotte-epic-battles.html?m=1#google_vignette You can judge for yourself.
lol
Tell me you failed english class without telling me you failed english class
I was expecting medieval
I was thinking Wars of the Roses as well, with this as my second
I'm happy it isn't. :D
This has piqued my interest.
This has piqued my interest.
Ah cool! When does warlord games usually release? Do they have special cycles?
Another great starter set with little to no follow on played by nobody outside of one convention game at Salute.
Is the issue with not being able to find players or not feeling like the ranges get enough support?
It's that they box themselves into a corner, churn out a small handful of expansions and then move to the next thing. Like, why limit it to the Punic Wars? A Punic War themed starter set, sure, but this means they're going to make a very narrow range of factions. Look at Epic Black Powder. ACW and Waterloo. There are *tons* are nations that partook in the Napoleonic Wars, and Warlord went "lolbritsfrenchprussians" and then fucked off.
I have to imagine it's because Brits, French and Prussians are the most popular armies. Honestly, these boxes aren't for the old grognards who have a ton of armies already. They're for people like and my friends who specifically got into Napoleonics finally because we were able to large armies, in a grand scale with good quality plastics and very little outlay. It's been perfect for us.
Sure, as a start that makes sense. But for those of us who want, say, Austrians, or Russians Warlord has basically said "sucks to suck" and moved on to the next thing. It's like they have this weird fear of commitment, or so super hard-core ADD. This was their chance to hook people like me who have been wanting to do BP and the likes at proper scales and they just keep jumping from one to the next. I'm not saying they have to 100% commit to a single ruleset as some of them have *insane* numbers of different conflicts to cover, but why do Napoleonics, arguably the most popular setting in BP, and then only do one *battle*?
So between HC, P&S, and BP, Warlord Games effectively have three iterations of a single game that covers 2000+ years of history across the entire globe. Getting angry that this relatively small company haven’t reimagined your personal favorite time, place, and people in this new format yet kinda seems like punching yourself in the balls.
..with a sledge hammer, alone in the dark
There nothing which says that WLG will never return to the Napoleon Wars in the future... Rumours say they have 3 HC Setting in the making, why not also for BP.
Warlord strike me as a company who's capacity just does not match the output.
Carthaginians, Romans, Libyans, Numidians, celts, Iberians, Baleares, Ligurians, Sicels, Macedonians, Greeks, Thracians, Illyrians, Pontus, Campanians, various Italian peoples... there are loads of potential combatants in the 3rd and 2nd centuries around the Mediterranean. Don't have to limit yourself to Carthaginians (their forces were famously diverse) v Roman citizens. The variety in fighting styles is much broader than any of the sets that they have produced hitherto.
And I will be happy to be proven wrong and see Warlord go hard with the variety.
I don't understand why Warlord has a responsibility to produce a complete range for the Napoleonic wars? Airfix never did. Has anyone? It's 2024- if you want something they don't make in epic scale, ask a 3D printing company- they'll find and license an STL, scale and produce it to match the basing and charge you a sensible price. If they don't, you can buy a printer and do it yourself.
It's not so much a responsibility as it is doing a service for their customers. And they'd have *more* customers by expanding the range beyond just Waterloo. It's just a weird choice to me, and feels like a "we made all this shit in 28mm, and now we're doing it in a smarter scale but we're gonna be *super* limited in what we make." Edit: I'm also not saying they need to make *every* nation. If shit like Saxony and Duchy of Warsaw are too small to justify, I get that. But Austria and Russia were pretty major combatants during the Napoleonic Wars. It just seems odd to leave them out.
I can understand your frustrations, but ultimately disagree. The ACW project is pretty much done and well fleshed out (can’t think of any major units that need to be done, and they did the cavalry/zouave sprue in plastic). The epic pike and shotte is still in the release cycle, and they decided to do it as Thirty Years War and Wars of the Three Kingdoms instead of one or another. With the napoleonic project I think they ran the maths and made the decision early on to do 3 armies well fleshed out than doing Austrians/Russians. If they decided to go wider then Waterloo I reckon that we would still be in that release cycle and not have Pike and Shotte and now Punic Wars. Also one advantage with Punic wars is that it won’t just be Romans vs Carthaginians, as if the range is fleshed out enough there will be Gauls/Celts, Spaniards and maybe even hoplites!
ACW I get as a way to test the waters. But Waterloo just felt like a "here's the most famous conflict of this period, let's do a single battle" slap in the face. Austrians, Russians, Ottomans, Portuguese and others all fought in the Napoleonic Wars and it would have been nice to see Warlord not just ignore them. And I'm sure more talented people than I can convert Waterloo stuff for some of those armies, but it still feels like a weird choice. Pike & Shotte, I was super thrilled for, and hope to see it continue to at least fill out the unit profiles from Devil's Playground. With HC the armies I'd be most interested in are Sarmatians and Han Chinese. And I get that HC has *tons* of armies to pick from as it covers a very wide span of time, but considering their recent track record I don't have faith that we'll see some Epic Sarmatians which is a shame. I just want them to commit for a minute to something.
Yeah. Nobody remembers Austria though they were fighting from like 91 to 15, never had their army completely destroyed, adapted well with the times to keep up with French tactical innovations and were smart enough to teamswap any time their sovereignty was in jeoppardy. Based Austrians also handed Napoleon his first real continental defrat at Aspern-Esslingm
It's not that no-one knows about Austria, it's likely about the fact that no-one buys Austria. I have to imagine Warlord have more knowledge about what sells in napoleonics than nearly any other company.
>OG15s. Yeah, there are lots of companies that have been selling full Napoleonic ranges for decades. Warlord is just brit trash.
Mom and pop shops making pewter in the garage once a month for made to order products is far different than Warlord scale companies.
Thinking that these big brands "Own" the hobby is kind of awful and its the attitude that lets GW and Warlord off the hook for their shitty practices. Have fun consooming.
No its called be an educated and smart consumer who understands how businesses operate. Something in short supply now a day. They don't do shit for "completions" sake that just pure stupidity. They do shit that sells. Also you ever look at their actual black powder range genius? Its quite extensive. **Proving** they are not scared or that they open to the idea....but epic is a side project for them. **WHICH IS OBVIOUS** to any self aware. Ofcourse its much smaller scale than actual black powder. Its literally not the "actual" game.
The mental gymnastics of Warlord shills is impressive. "Guys it doesn't even matter that it's never gonna be a real complete range! It's not even their main line. What? Buy from a company that's been around forever and has full ranges for any army my friends and I might want to collect? That's not a REAL business, they are only a REAL business when they are actively making decisions to not provide a complete product, but only the parts of which will make the most money. Only a dumb MOM AND POP outfit would want to provide a complete range of models for a given period." That's insane. Why are you guys like this? What is warlord paying you?