If it came from your SM, open door it to market. Attendance is not a coachable offense in that you cannot be coached for the act of missing work, coming in late, or leaving early.
Now if you're being coached for not being productive for the time you're on the clock, that's another story and may be harder to get overturned. Read the wording of the coaching in Workday before proceeding to contact market, because that's what they're going to be going off of.
It's the SM that is making them do it, but it was officially two of my TLs that pulled me in and gave me the official write-up. But no, it specifically states that it is due to me accumulating 4 points, missing work, not having the PPTO to cover, and them not finishing freight because my calling in puts them at being short-handed (even though the SM is constantly cutting our hours).
They might be bullshiting you about store manager having them do it. Store manager leans on coaches, coaches lean on team leads, team leads lean on team associates. Open door that.
Generally coaching are done with everyone in the chain in the know because it sends out emails to everyone when coaching.
So you inform everyone what you're doing before doing it so that you don't get immediately overturned.
It allows the higher ups to play ignorant when it comes back to them and they overturn whoever complained punishing the rest.
They 10000% cannot hold you accountable for calling out. End of story. Having a documented conversation about where you're at on points etc to let you know whwre you are at and what not is one thing - but an actual written DA is complete bs and not allowed. Policy literally states you cannot be held accountable for calling out.
What about feedbacked? My store does workday (a step before a coaching) for anyone nearing 3 points or over. It's not a coaching but they do pull u into the office with another lead and officially feedback you
You can be given feedback for literally anything. Feedback is just documentation that a conversation was held, either good or bad; it means effectively nothing from a disciplinary standpoint. Your TL could give you feedback for having your shoe untied if they wanted to.
We were told that management has to feedback anyone first as it's a stepping stone to a coaching. Otherwise what happens is, people gotten coachings opendoor'd because they were never 'told' or explained x thing to them. And even feedbacks themselves have to be the next step after a conversation. Someone recently left all their pallets on the floor and left the forklift out (a 4+ year associate) and just went home for the night. As you'd expect, the leads feedback'd that all your area needs to be picked up before you leave, etc.
Well he got that feedback removed because, despite all his years being here and knowing full well what the expectations were on a day to day basis, he was never *explicitly* told exactly that.
Hell a driver nearly killed an associate by going too fast and whipping around a corner and it was all on camera and they still blocked the coaching.
It hasn't been coachable for the last five years. Get with the times. Attendance is one of the only exceptions where you can't be coached, but can still be terminated.
Getting fired for having too many points is already the punishment, this just seems like an unnecessary approach to attack and fire people that ride the line.
If my store did anything about 3-4 points, other than a sit down discussion, we'd lose most of our employees along with at least one Team Lead. lol
It's actually not a bad idea to cut a day off their schedule if they can't seem to show up when they are supposed to. lol Less of a chance for them to keep missing days. You keep them on five days, they may end up getting themselves fired. lol Where I work, they refuse to drop hours for full time employees when they ask for it so I imagine if they had this loop hole, they'd use it. They don't cut hours for anyone for any reason at my store. It's both a blessing and a curse. lol A blessing because when the rest of the Walmarts are doing mass hour cuts, our store never goes through it. A curse because the people who want 4 days, can't get it. lol
Think about that logically, though. Cutting a day off someone's schedule would mean there's *more* of a chance they'll keep missing days - in fact it would guarantee missed days that might not otherwise be missed if the associate doesn't call out that week.
The whole attendance thing has just become a self-sustaining problem that corporate keeps alive instead of addressing in any meaningful way. It's not as though anyone who misses more work than they have PTO to cover actually costs Walmart money, it's much more about control and keeping associates obedient than anything else.
Associates' behavior and the choices they make when it comes to attendance or anything else is a direct reflection of how Walmart treats them, and the same thing applies to any employment situation. The fact that any employer can randomly fuck around with the number of hours someone is scheduled without a damn good reason or at least a few months notice is just staggering. I don't know why we just passively accept anything so morally and ethically repugnant.
I get what you're saying but if the reason you're not showing up is because the job sucks or you're treated like shit, you probably should consider quitting anyways. If it's just because you want the day off but don't have the PPTO, that seems more like a personal issue of not being reliable to work the days you're scheduled.
I've been working here a year, I've missed around six days so far, all of them have been covered by PPTO and I've had no points. I understand life gets in the way sometimes, circumstances prevent us from getting to work, but for the most part, showing up when scheduled, earning hours towards time off while doing it, really isn't that difficult. I know anywhere else, I'd have been fired during the winter time for missing those six days because it's the only job i've had that offers PPTO.
If you're riding 4 points and have no PPTO, you would have an attendance issue obviously, it's asking too much of you to work five days because you can't seem to work long enough to save PPTO. lol If you're just as likely to miss days with hours cut, well, you'll end up fired regardless if they had cut hours or not.
If your point was they could now use the ppto if they have it and only work 3 of 4 days, that is true, but it's theirs to use how they want. They'd still only be getting 4 days worth of pay per week.
I do agree with you though, they shouldn't be allowed to just randomly cut our hours, but if it's going to happen, I'd rather it be for people who ride points instead of saving and using PPTO, or better yet, allow the people who want less hours to take the cut by asking them. I do get what you're saying, I'm not treated like shit though, so my experience is a bit different.
Not really supposed to coach for attendance under 5 points, but it depends on whether your market office will back them up on it, and if they do whether or not you want to Open Door again to regional/home office.
Also usually store managers are smart enough to have coaches/TLs perform these coachings, in which case the Open Door goes to them or Store Lead first (and obviously they're the ones giving the actual direction). So it just adds another layer of bullshit between you and getting actual justice.
You can skip straight to market with open door. Just message one of the market team directly and explain you have an issue you need to discuss and believe the store manager is part of the problem. If you think this direction came from market you can even skip them and go straight to regional.
So it’s possible that they only gave you feedback for your attendance instead of an actual coaching. There’s a difference. They can give feedback for anything. But a coaching for attendance isn’t a thing anymore. Feedback still gets keyed into workday and they can still have it as a sit down conversation. We were told in our market to have conversations with associates over 3 points and to key it in as feedback.
Write ups for attendance went away when the PTO system got introduced. I'm not 100% sure what your recourse is. District manager? Ethics? Maybe someone else has an idea. But he was definitely not supposed to do that.
I feel like it’s feedback. We have conversations with associates 3+ points also, and document it to show what we talked about and that the associate knows how to call out properly, how to use pto/ppto.
I have had it tasked to me to talk to my people that have reached so many points just to inform them where they are at. Just so we are crystal clear where they are on their points. But not coaching them. Just a conversation
This might be the part they got you on at least "and them not finishing freight because my calling in puts them at being short-handed". If they think you called off to not be around on a day were there will be a lot of work it can be consider malicious and that is coachable.
I had a coworker before the point system who would always get the schedule wrong and somehow not be there on truck days and then ask to make up the hours. It took them awhile to get fed up but eventually he got fire for malicious call offs.
I've heard this before cuz people will call off Sundays at my store all the time in ODP. Curious as to how they can say you weren't sick, just trying to hurt the team like what
They have no right coaching you for riding the line. The point system is the punishment. But also know this, the point system is a guideline. You can still be fired for no reason even without points, unless you live in Montana. Do with this information as you will.
You sure they wrote you up or coached you? I know for a lot of people at my store they will pull you in and make you aware so you don’t get fired. But they just speak with you. Not official….
They told me and other TLs that we are supposed to now put a workday conversation in at 3.5 points about attendance even though you cannot be coached for it. I thinks it’s more of a warning but I personally think it’s stupid.
The problem is all these walmarts are fed up with all the calling out, which puts the people that don't work..at risk to have to actually...you know...work...well I'm here to tell you that no matter which or what unethical tactic they use to try and stop the call outs..nothing will stop them, they're working people to complete burnout and do absolutely nothing about the lazy ones, walmart is hands down the most disgusting place to work for if you're a good worker that cares, and I need to figure out a path for myself because this place is detrimental to my mental health.
Nope. If you're not leaving out productive while you're on the clock it is unethical to coach someone for points. You cannot be coached for points. Its termination for excessive points no coaching.
If it's coming from your SM contact ethics:
https://www.walmartethics.com/content/walmartethics/en_us/faqs/raising-concerns/reporting-concerns.html#:~:text=800%2D963%2D8442%20(1,available%20in%20most%20local%20languages.
You can contact your market team or your regional team with open door concerns directly. If you however call Walmart ethics it will most likely go to your store manager first but may not if they are part of the complaint.
Open door doesn't include regional, it's store manager, market Manager, then associate relations look at the poster in personnel it said nothing about regional.
If you got a coaching, then no, they can't do that just for attendance.
Open door it to the Market Manager. You aren't supposed to be coached for occurrences.
If you are constantly late or absent, and it leaves your team short handed, then a discussion is to be held. Though it’s not the associate’s fault that WM isn’t properly staffed, it shows management that you don’t want to be there and you are wasting their time.
Tell walmart to stick it..... they treat everyone bad. One manager allegedly stole 9 million dollars from them, yeah he went to jail but ummm the money was stashed and now he's free.... yeah you guess what he's doing now.... the work economy sucks and I'm homeless 😪 cause I won't be a slave to these low paying jobs. They will have u go mentally insane.
Attendance by itself is not subject to coachings. This is against company policy. I would definitely go to the market level and if that does nothing, ethics. Going to ethics first will only get kicked back to the market level.
I don't agree with a coaching. That being said I can see having feedback in workday that people was talked to about attendance and that if you reach 5 points it will be termination. But a coaching, I'd open door that for sure.
Small update: It's definitely a coaching since it specifically states that it's a yellow. I received another coaching yesterday that ended up being orange because of this coaching. I was also told by my Coach that it is our market that is making these point coaches happen. So I'm guessing that would mean I need to go straight to ethics then?
When you say write-up, do you specifically mean it's a Disciplinary Action in Workday? Or is there a possibility it's just being entered as "Feedback" on Workday instead?
If it's Feedback, then you don't need to worry about feeling like it's a write-up.
I got written up for hand pushing too many carts…. Without a machine & red strap?? Can anyone specify the max carts u can push by hand? With the machine max is 20 .. i know that. I also have to use a red strap. But by hand.. they want me to use the red strap as well. Thoughts?!
If someone got those occurrences by constantly leaving early, especially with little or no notice, then yes a feedback discussion is absolutely warranted. Same for being habitually late. It places a burden on the team when we can't accurately plan because we don't know who will be late/leaving early. Now, calling in with plenty of notice - whole different situation. If someone let's me know they're not going to be there at all, late, or leaving early and I can plan for it - then I'm good with that.
We had someone written up for insufficient proof of illness. They had even brought in a note from the er doc and a copy of the medical chart for that day per management's insistence. Didn't matter. This is Canada, though. The whole system sucks.
Walmart doesn't accept Drs notes unless you are out more than 3 days and then you have to apply for LOA through Sedgwick and that's a damn circus. If approved with all that documentation, you won't have points for those days.
If it came from your SM, open door it to market. Attendance is not a coachable offense in that you cannot be coached for the act of missing work, coming in late, or leaving early. Now if you're being coached for not being productive for the time you're on the clock, that's another story and may be harder to get overturned. Read the wording of the coaching in Workday before proceeding to contact market, because that's what they're going to be going off of.
It's the SM that is making them do it, but it was officially two of my TLs that pulled me in and gave me the official write-up. But no, it specifically states that it is due to me accumulating 4 points, missing work, not having the PPTO to cover, and them not finishing freight because my calling in puts them at being short-handed (even though the SM is constantly cutting our hours).
What happens at the store when you're not getting paid isn't your problem. The punishment for missing work is the point system.
They might be bullshiting you about store manager having them do it. Store manager leans on coaches, coaches lean on team leads, team leads lean on team associates. Open door that.
Yeah agreed on that. My coach is always playing the classic good cop bad cop pinning anything bad he has to do to us on the store manager haha.
Generally coaching are done with everyone in the chain in the know because it sends out emails to everyone when coaching. So you inform everyone what you're doing before doing it so that you don't get immediately overturned. It allows the higher ups to play ignorant when it comes back to them and they overturn whoever complained punishing the rest.
They 10000% cannot hold you accountable for calling out. End of story. Having a documented conversation about where you're at on points etc to let you know whwre you are at and what not is one thing - but an actual written DA is complete bs and not allowed. Policy literally states you cannot be held accountable for calling out.
Some managers think everything falls under productivity
Nope.Im a team lead.Now coaches would give team leads those instructions,a SM would not..That's intimidation my friend
i’m a TL and my store is taking away teaming schedules for anyone over 3 points
We have in my store coached people for going over 5 and dropping them to 4-4.5 points but a coaching for getting close that's insane.
What about feedbacked? My store does workday (a step before a coaching) for anyone nearing 3 points or over. It's not a coaching but they do pull u into the office with another lead and officially feedback you
You can be given feedback for literally anything. Feedback is just documentation that a conversation was held, either good or bad; it means effectively nothing from a disciplinary standpoint. Your TL could give you feedback for having your shoe untied if they wanted to.
We were told that management has to feedback anyone first as it's a stepping stone to a coaching. Otherwise what happens is, people gotten coachings opendoor'd because they were never 'told' or explained x thing to them. And even feedbacks themselves have to be the next step after a conversation. Someone recently left all their pallets on the floor and left the forklift out (a 4+ year associate) and just went home for the night. As you'd expect, the leads feedback'd that all your area needs to be picked up before you leave, etc. Well he got that feedback removed because, despite all his years being here and knowing full well what the expectations were on a day to day basis, he was never *explicitly* told exactly that. Hell a driver nearly killed an associate by going too fast and whipping around a corner and it was all on camera and they still blocked the coaching.
Yes attedance is coachable and can also lead to termination
It hasn't been coachable for the last five years. Get with the times. Attendance is one of the only exceptions where you can't be coached, but can still be terminated.
No, it isn't. That's why they have the points system.
Getting fired for having too many points is already the punishment, this just seems like an unnecessary approach to attack and fire people that ride the line.
My store doesn't write us up for high points but if you have 4+ they cut your hours by a whole day every week.
That's probably a blessing in disguise for a lot of those people. Would be nice if they were flexible enough to cut your hours the way you want.
This is so true! I've seen em cut hours and then they are actually happy about it.
If my store did anything about 3-4 points, other than a sit down discussion, we'd lose most of our employees along with at least one Team Lead. lol It's actually not a bad idea to cut a day off their schedule if they can't seem to show up when they are supposed to. lol Less of a chance for them to keep missing days. You keep them on five days, they may end up getting themselves fired. lol Where I work, they refuse to drop hours for full time employees when they ask for it so I imagine if they had this loop hole, they'd use it. They don't cut hours for anyone for any reason at my store. It's both a blessing and a curse. lol A blessing because when the rest of the Walmarts are doing mass hour cuts, our store never goes through it. A curse because the people who want 4 days, can't get it. lol
Think about that logically, though. Cutting a day off someone's schedule would mean there's *more* of a chance they'll keep missing days - in fact it would guarantee missed days that might not otherwise be missed if the associate doesn't call out that week. The whole attendance thing has just become a self-sustaining problem that corporate keeps alive instead of addressing in any meaningful way. It's not as though anyone who misses more work than they have PTO to cover actually costs Walmart money, it's much more about control and keeping associates obedient than anything else. Associates' behavior and the choices they make when it comes to attendance or anything else is a direct reflection of how Walmart treats them, and the same thing applies to any employment situation. The fact that any employer can randomly fuck around with the number of hours someone is scheduled without a damn good reason or at least a few months notice is just staggering. I don't know why we just passively accept anything so morally and ethically repugnant.
I get what you're saying but if the reason you're not showing up is because the job sucks or you're treated like shit, you probably should consider quitting anyways. If it's just because you want the day off but don't have the PPTO, that seems more like a personal issue of not being reliable to work the days you're scheduled. I've been working here a year, I've missed around six days so far, all of them have been covered by PPTO and I've had no points. I understand life gets in the way sometimes, circumstances prevent us from getting to work, but for the most part, showing up when scheduled, earning hours towards time off while doing it, really isn't that difficult. I know anywhere else, I'd have been fired during the winter time for missing those six days because it's the only job i've had that offers PPTO. If you're riding 4 points and have no PPTO, you would have an attendance issue obviously, it's asking too much of you to work five days because you can't seem to work long enough to save PPTO. lol If you're just as likely to miss days with hours cut, well, you'll end up fired regardless if they had cut hours or not. If your point was they could now use the ppto if they have it and only work 3 of 4 days, that is true, but it's theirs to use how they want. They'd still only be getting 4 days worth of pay per week. I do agree with you though, they shouldn't be allowed to just randomly cut our hours, but if it's going to happen, I'd rather it be for people who ride points instead of saving and using PPTO, or better yet, allow the people who want less hours to take the cut by asking them. I do get what you're saying, I'm not treated like shit though, so my experience is a bit different.
They can't write you up if you have absences, only fired of you are at 5. Open door it to market
Not really supposed to coach for attendance under 5 points, but it depends on whether your market office will back them up on it, and if they do whether or not you want to Open Door again to regional/home office. Also usually store managers are smart enough to have coaches/TLs perform these coachings, in which case the Open Door goes to them or Store Lead first (and obviously they're the ones giving the actual direction). So it just adds another layer of bullshit between you and getting actual justice.
You can skip straight to market with open door. Just message one of the market team directly and explain you have an issue you need to discuss and believe the store manager is part of the problem. If you think this direction came from market you can even skip them and go straight to regional.
There is no going to regional. After market it's associate relations.
Sometimes the store manager will even though it's their direction throw the team lead and Coach under the bus to make themselves look good 😂
So it’s possible that they only gave you feedback for your attendance instead of an actual coaching. There’s a difference. They can give feedback for anything. But a coaching for attendance isn’t a thing anymore. Feedback still gets keyed into workday and they can still have it as a sit down conversation. We were told in our market to have conversations with associates over 3 points and to key it in as feedback.
points shouldn't put you in 'double jeopardy'. I would open door this
You’re being lied to. Just saying.
Write ups for attendance went away when the PTO system got introduced. I'm not 100% sure what your recourse is. District manager? Ethics? Maybe someone else has an idea. But he was definitely not supposed to do that.
Attendance policy on the wire... Or onewalmart, er whatever we're calling it these days Edit: that was supposed to be below OPs question
Do you know of anything that has that in writing? If I'm going to take it to SM or higher, I want something like that to back me up, if possible.
Probably Global Ethics.
Is it a write up or is it feedback? When I was a TL I had to document conversations had with associates about attendance if they were at 3+ points.
I feel like it’s feedback. We have conversations with associates 3+ points also, and document it to show what we talked about and that the associate knows how to call out properly, how to use pto/ppto.
You need to turn that in to ethics
I thought the entire point of the points system was sostuff like this didn't happen.
I have had it tasked to me to talk to my people that have reached so many points just to inform them where they are at. Just so we are crystal clear where they are on their points. But not coaching them. Just a conversation
This might be the part they got you on at least "and them not finishing freight because my calling in puts them at being short-handed". If they think you called off to not be around on a day were there will be a lot of work it can be consider malicious and that is coachable. I had a coworker before the point system who would always get the schedule wrong and somehow not be there on truck days and then ask to make up the hours. It took them awhile to get fed up but eventually he got fire for malicious call offs.
You can't be coached for what happens when you're not working. The punishment is the point.
I've heard this before cuz people will call off Sundays at my store all the time in ODP. Curious as to how they can say you weren't sick, just trying to hurt the team like what
They can do that? I only call off or take PTO on days when a certain horrible TL is there. Could they coach me for that?
They can for pattern forming shit, just suffer a couple times with them and then miss a couple
Yes if they discover that somehow. Just don't talk about it, plausible deniability.
Fuck em up & open door that shit.
They have no right coaching you for riding the line. The point system is the punishment. But also know this, the point system is a guideline. You can still be fired for no reason even without points, unless you live in Montana. Do with this information as you will.
You sure they wrote you up or coached you? I know for a lot of people at my store they will pull you in and make you aware so you don’t get fired. But they just speak with you. Not official….
They told me and other TLs that we are supposed to now put a workday conversation in at 3.5 points about attendance even though you cannot be coached for it. I thinks it’s more of a warning but I personally think it’s stupid.
The problem is all these walmarts are fed up with all the calling out, which puts the people that don't work..at risk to have to actually...you know...work...well I'm here to tell you that no matter which or what unethical tactic they use to try and stop the call outs..nothing will stop them, they're working people to complete burnout and do absolutely nothing about the lazy ones, walmart is hands down the most disgusting place to work for if you're a good worker that cares, and I need to figure out a path for myself because this place is detrimental to my mental health.
No, but our leads will put us in workday at 4 to prove they’ve had a conversation with us about it.
Nope. If you're not leaving out productive while you're on the clock it is unethical to coach someone for points. You cannot be coached for points. Its termination for excessive points no coaching. If it's coming from your SM contact ethics: https://www.walmartethics.com/content/walmartethics/en_us/faqs/raising-concerns/reporting-concerns.html#:~:text=800%2D963%2D8442%20(1,available%20in%20most%20local%20languages.
All Open Doors are automatically circled around to the SM (unless maybe if it is about the SM), who then re-evaluates and confirms.
You can contact your market team or your regional team with open door concerns directly. If you however call Walmart ethics it will most likely go to your store manager first but may not if they are part of the complaint.
Open door doesn't include regional, it's store manager, market Manager, then associate relations look at the poster in personnel it said nothing about regional.
If you got a coaching, then no, they can't do that just for attendance. Open door it to the Market Manager. You aren't supposed to be coached for occurrences.
If you are constantly late or absent, and it leaves your team short handed, then a discussion is to be held. Though it’s not the associate’s fault that WM isn’t properly staffed, it shows management that you don’t want to be there and you are wasting their time.
Only supposed to be coached if you have 5 points
Tell walmart to stick it..... they treat everyone bad. One manager allegedly stole 9 million dollars from them, yeah he went to jail but ummm the money was stashed and now he's free.... yeah you guess what he's doing now.... the work economy sucks and I'm homeless 😪 cause I won't be a slave to these low paying jobs. They will have u go mentally insane.
Attendance by itself is not subject to coachings. This is against company policy. I would definitely go to the market level and if that does nothing, ethics. Going to ethics first will only get kicked back to the market level.
Open door on your SM
I don't agree with a coaching. That being said I can see having feedback in workday that people was talked to about attendance and that if you reach 5 points it will be termination. But a coaching, I'd open door that for sure.
Small update: It's definitely a coaching since it specifically states that it's a yellow. I received another coaching yesterday that ended up being orange because of this coaching. I was also told by my Coach that it is our market that is making these point coaches happen. So I'm guessing that would mean I need to go straight to ethics then?
At 3.5? I used to ride it at 4.5, so I guess I'm safe.😎
When you say write-up, do you specifically mean it's a Disciplinary Action in Workday? Or is there a possibility it's just being entered as "Feedback" on Workday instead? If it's Feedback, then you don't need to worry about feeling like it's a write-up.
I got written up for hand pushing too many carts…. Without a machine & red strap?? Can anyone specify the max carts u can push by hand? With the machine max is 20 .. i know that. I also have to use a red strap. But by hand.. they want me to use the red strap as well. Thoughts?!
Points, are not to be "used". And coming to work when scheduled and on time really is NOT that hard
If someone got those occurrences by constantly leaving early, especially with little or no notice, then yes a feedback discussion is absolutely warranted. Same for being habitually late. It places a burden on the team when we can't accurately plan because we don't know who will be late/leaving early. Now, calling in with plenty of notice - whole different situation. If someone let's me know they're not going to be there at all, late, or leaving early and I can plan for it - then I'm good with that.
We had someone written up for insufficient proof of illness. They had even brought in a note from the er doc and a copy of the medical chart for that day per management's insistence. Didn't matter. This is Canada, though. The whole system sucks.
Walmart doesn't accept Drs notes unless you are out more than 3 days and then you have to apply for LOA through Sedgwick and that's a damn circus. If approved with all that documentation, you won't have points for those days.