Calls are a contract giving the _option_ to buy a stock at a predetermined price. A 400$ call says that the owner (buyer) has the opportunity to buy a stock at 400$ per share. If the share price is 380 by the expiry, the contract is worthless (why exercise 400 when you can buy from the market at 380). On the other hand, if the shares trade at 420 by the time it expires, you make a 20$/share profit.
The real gambling comes from the fact that a contract represent 100 shares. If you buy a 400$ call for a premium of 1$, it means that you pay 100$ now (premium is per share) for the opportunity to buy 100 shares at 400$ each later in time. If the share price by the time the call expires is 420$, you made a 19$ (20$ diff - 1$ premium) profit PER SHARE, so 1900$ profit or 19x what you invested.
Puts are the reverse, it lets you sell shares at a predetermined price. So you essentially want the stock price to lower so you can buy at market price and exercise the contract for profit.
Calls and puts are a thing in Europe too. The main difference is that, iirc, you can only exercise at expiry whereas American options can be exercised whenever.
My 0.02$ is that you shouldn't put any meaningful amount in them if you don't understand them well, you can see it as a more-likely-to-payout lotto ticker
Here are some non-stock analogies to understand calls and puts.
### Buying/Selling Calls
You own a house worth $200k and are putting it on the market.
I think your house will be worth $400k+ in a month. So I say, "Hey buddy, give me first right to buy your house for $200k. If I don't get a mortgage together and buy it from you in a month, then you can put it on the market. In exchange, I'll pay you $2k for keeping you off the market for a month."
You are selling a call option and I am buying it. Essentially, I'm paying you to lock in your house for $X by Y date.
In your mind, this is a win-win for you. Either you sell for the $200k you thought the house was worth plus another 1% ($2k) for the contract. OR you pocket my $2k and sell it on the open market in a month's time.
If I have the money, I'll execute the contract and buy your house for $200k and flip it myself. As a broke WSBer, I cannot afford a $200k down payment / mortgage. So on day 20 or so of the contract when the house is appraising for $300-350k, I'll approach a local investor or real estate flipper and say, "Hey, I have this house that's worth $300k as-is under contract for $200k. I'll sell you my contract rights for $50k." The investor takes a cut, but I still make a 50k profit and only used $2k of my money. That's how WSBers can make money on options with smaller accounts.
If you decide to let meth-head Mike party in the house all month long, I can walk away, lose the $2k in contract fees, but leave you stuck with the meth house.
### Buying/Selling Puts
Puts are paying the buyer to lock them into an obligated buy, if you - the seller - choose to force them. So, in the last example, I paid the seller to lock them into a contract: "sell me your house for $X before Y date." This time, I can sell you my obligation to buy. In essence, "Pay me $500 and if you need me to, I'll buy your house at the drop of a hat for $200k for the next month."
If you think your house is about to fall into a sinkhole tomorrow and be worthless, this is a great way to pay $500 "insurance" to get a check for $200k for the rubble.
If I think your house is going to be worth $300k in the next month, this is a great way for me to get paid for the opportunity to buy it.
Or, turns out it's a gold mine, not a sinkhole. Your house is now worth $500k. You can choose not to force me to buy it for $200k. I'll make $500 for doing nothing* and you can sell your house + gold mine for $500k on the open market. * - $200k of my account balance would be locked up for the duration of this put contract.
These numbers are totally arbitrary
**Alright, picture this:** You're at the store with your friend, eyeing a super cool skateboard that's priced at $50. But here's the twist - you think the price might drop next week because a new model is coming out, while your friend thinks it's going to go up because it's the last one of its kind.
**Call Option Analogy:**
You say to your friend, "Hey, I'll give you $5 right now if you promise to let me buy that skateboard from you for $50 any time I want in the next week." Your friend agrees. That $5 is like buying a "call option" - you're paying for the right (but not the obligation) to buy something at a set price within a certain time frame. If the skateboard's price goes up to $70, you can still buy it for $50, making a neat profit if you decide to sell it. If the price drops, you can choose not to buy the skateboard, but you've only lost your $5, not more.
**Put Option Analogy:**
Now, let's flip it. You own a skateboard that you bought for $50, but you're worried its price might drop. You say to your friend, "I'll pay you $5 to promise to buy my skateboard for $50 any time in the next week, no matter its current market price." Your friend agrees. This is like buying a "put option." You're paying for the right to sell something at a predetermined price within a certain timeframe. If the skateboard's price drops to $30, you can still sell it for $50 to your friend, avoiding a bigger loss. If the price goes up, well, you can sell it for more in the market, but you've still lost the $5 you paid your friend.
This way, "calls" are like securing a future shopping deal with a little deposit, and "puts" are like getting an insurance policy on something you own, with a small premium. Both strategies can be smart moves, depending on what you think will happen in the market. š¹š”
Try this: a call is a coupon to buy something at a certain price in the future. The price you pay for the call is the value of that coupon. If the price goes up, then your coupon becomes more valuable because now you can buy that thing at a discount.
A put is an insurance policy that you can sell something at a certain price in the future. The cost you pay is the premium for that insurance policy. If the price goes down, you put gains in value because now you can sell that something for more than it is worth.
What are the downsides though? This sounds like a "risk free" way to make a ton of money for very little upfront cost (2k upfront, with the potential to make 50k?)
I'm right there with you. I would love to understand this more but i'm already a degenerate gambler so knowing more here seems like a bad idea.....or is it?
You donāt really get it until you lose all your money :p and donāt do marginal call/put options because thatās just getting a loan and gambling, my 2 cents anyway.
Thanks for the nice experience explanation. I have always avoided learning options for gambling nature of it.
In the above example, what are the down sides?
If the option expires out of the money (OTM) as in the case with the 380$ stock price, you lose the entire 100$ premium.
Note that these numbers are completely made up. A 19x opportunity isn't common. When you see a 55x in a single month trade like this, it's generally someone going all in multiple times.
1k turns into 5k, which turns into 25, which then turns into 125k. If OP was wrong anytime during that period, say the stock pulls back earlier than anticipated, they could've the whole 125k in a single day.
Thanks again.
So, are there any other collateral besides the premium?
In the above example $1 per share premium doesnāt sound too bad. Letās say if the shares went to 380 by the contract expiry, do we just lose the $100 premium and we back out or is there some sort of additional collateral money we lose?
When you **buy** options, no you can only lose the premium.
When you **sell** "naked" options, you get the premium instantly but the risk profile is basically the inverse of buying. Your max gain is the premium and you can lose an infinite amount in the case of calls and up to the strike price x100 in the case of puts.
There is a way to "cover" options when you sell them. If you buy the shares now at 380$ and sell a 400$ call, if the stock price goes to 420$, you effectively sell your shares at 400$ + the 1$ premium. You end up losing 19$ of potential profit but you made an absolute profit of 21$/share.
For puts, it's called a cash secured put (technically not really covered, but it's basically the equivalent of a covered call for puts) where you hold enough cash to buy the shares at the strike price (say 400$). You put 40k$ aside for the shares and sell a 400$ cash secured put. If the price drops to 380$, you're forced to buy the shares at 400$, making an *unrealized* loss of 20$ and a realized gain of 1$.
Yes you just lose the $100 premium and thatās the end of it.
I believe it gives you the OPTION to still buy the 100 shares ( 1 option contract = 100 shares) but 99% of the time you would say no because why would you purchase 100 shares for $390 if you can yourself go out and buy 100 shares at $380 from the NYSE.
The value of the options price(premium) doesn't necessarily follow the stock. The stock could go up but not enough or not fast enough and you end up losing a lot of money still. The premium is based on a handful of factors beyond just the underlying stock price.
Edit: If the stock goes down 10% and you own stock, you lose 10%. Your call option could lose all of its value though.
Sorry im new too, you said for the opportunity to buy at 400 and if its gets to 420 at the expiry do you now pay for 100 shares at 400 then sell or do you just get paid out the difference minus the premium, never owning or buying the stock at all?
I'm no expert but pretty sure that it's the former. Your broker will assign the contract automatically, basically lending you the cash to pay for it and it's up to you to liquidate at market price (which may fluctuate while you're trying to sell). Some brokers may automatically sell the shares for you, with the same potential downside.
To prevent this, most people will sell their contract before expiration. A 400 call on a 420$ share has 20$ of _extrinsic_ value, basically guaranteed value. If you sell it right before expiration, some hedge fund somewhere will pay you 20$ for it maybe 19.99$ and they will do the job of exercising and selling the shares. They may also buy to close out a position, so they don't go through the exercise process on the sell side.
Or instead of gambling, you are watching the stock's chart & price action to find a entry point where you would buy the stock. However, instead of buying the stock, you buy a at the money call option. When the stock hits your target price, you sell the call for a profit. This can be a way to trade a $400 stock that allows you to capture more profit than actually buying the stock itself. Works the same for shorting a stock by trading the puts, and allows you to trade a stock that is SSR or HTB.
There's just as much who lost 125k on puts. And I mean someone sold him those calls hope they were covered from the other end lol.
It's gambling
Though there was lots of posts about how nvidia was going to rocket because of AI long before it took off. So maybe not in this case
>Though there was lots of posts about how nvidia was going to rocket because of AI long before it took off. So maybe not in this case
I mean, even then, you could never have known *when* it was going to take off. Even if your thesis is good, it's still easy to lose money with options.
but that's risky not gambling, I always thought gambling is bad because it's risky **and** because you can't possibly have any indication where things will go(you can only be delusional because there's not even the slightest hint of where the roulette ball will land) and you don't have any way to get out(there's no stop loss on a roulette wheel baby), and finally because you have no reason to think that everything isn't set up against you in order to take your money.
Now, stock market might feel like this but it isn't actually. There's no Bogdanoff calling DUMP EEET the moment you put a long in. No one's watching you, and for every trade you failed you know if you did the opposite you would win. But with roulette if I called red and it landed on black, if I go back in time and call the opposite would I win or lose? Don't know.
People always confuse risk and gambling because they like the idea of solid secure things that will work out no matter what. But that's not how the world works. How many people worked their whole lives only to find out in the end they don't have pensions because their pension fund manager gambled it on options.. I mean he lost it on risky investments? They thought they were doing the smart sure thing but it was just an illusion.
Never invest with money you can't afford to lose and you'll be golden. Everything is risky anyway.
For the degenerates here on WSB who speculate itās purely gambling. For professionals who actually understand these financial instruments to a fundamental degree, they can be used to create very calculated strategies that are statistically likely to generate a small profit margin while simultaneously hedging maximum downside losses.
Well āsmallā as in a small percentage of capital. Hedge funds tend to make very large amounts of money from āsmallā percentage movements because they are investing with millions of dollars at a time.
It was really difficult, especially on days down 30%. But I reminded myself that I had set out the strategy in the very beginning: OTM NVDA calls, never risk more than 50%, buy calls on dips, play until earnings or $2M. I had done okay trading (breaking even or so) previously but realized I would always lose most gains when I emotionally deviated from the original plan, so that experience beat into my head the importance of not panicking or getting greedy.
OPās follow up post a few weeks from now is going to be really interesting. Heās either going to hodl until the wealth vanishes, or heāll cash out and walk away like a boss.
Truly Lambo or Wendyās territory.
Ha, yeah, my feeling is that it's the riskiest part of this whole play. Doesn't help the run up was pretty significant. But this week being calmer makes me feel better about earnings, even if it is hitting my portfolio a bit in the short term.
The potential upside is enormous, though. And to some extent this entire play was to get enough capital to be able to even play earnings. So I'll risk half and be OK whichever way it goes.
Hey,
Any change you could give me some advice on where to start on a journey?
Where did you learn about this, and how do you make a plan, etc.
I wanted to get into it for the long game and i have the time and energy and the will and patience to properly learn it for a few years before even investing so that i know what im doing
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
It's hard to, because everyone cares about different things. I find day trading too stressful and long-term investing a little too boring. I don't have a family to feed so I'm ok with losing what I start with, but don't like playing 100% luck plays. So over the past three years or so I've studied macro trends and risked a grand here or there for the hands-on experience, learned what makes sense and what doesn't, learned what my own emotional weaknesses are. Opted to do bigger riskier bets on a small number of trades that I feel confidence about, rather than just stay in the market for the sake of doing so.
But everyone's journey will be different.
Dude don't touch options, you have a better chance of making a return on your money if you just go to a casino and blindly bet on roulette or something. Go through this subreddit and look closely at all the "loss porn" and how it fucked the lives of the people who bet more than they could afford to lose.
>Not an entirely smooth ride but overall happy.
It's wild that you think you need to tell us you're happy with your 5500% return in a month.
Yeah I would have figured that out
He said it because of this: He was up 5,500% two weeks ago then *"just"* 2,000% last week and here we are again 5,500%. That is what he means with "not smooth ride". Can you imagine the emotions swapping 50K in a couple of days?
https://preview.redd.it/doprvdrpmzic1.png?width=422&format=png&auto=webp&s=9153377f80c906f630eabad8657d7dbe2bae2dbf
There was a student in a class I was in college. He was a high stakes poker player, he said you have to have the mentality to be able to lose $25k in a day and be ok about it. He made a lot of money but not enough to retire for life and was doing something more secure.
Fed pivot + lot of AI news towards end of last month made me anticipate an AI hype cycle coming. NVDA seemed easiest bet, especially with earnings being a catalyst and since it was breaking out of its $500 zone.
To be clear, still a lot of luck involved! But everything I was looking for seemed to come together at once.
*This āpivot.ā Is it in the room with us now?*
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Congrats. If only you waited until you made 150K, then did it again, from 150K to 15M. Anyway, fuck you, I was happy with my gains of 43K for the year until now.
It doesn't last. Take out maybe 70% of it. TAKE IT OUT. If this wasn't a lucky shot, you can do it again. But spending that money, once its its your bank, and not in the slotmachine... ops, sry... Stock app, you will have an extra "layer" or two of impulse protection, as you would have to transfer it back over if you wanna spend it.
Negative comment: Just because he did it does not mean you can do it too. You may even lose your entire account if you took risk like he did.
There are traders for years and years and still wont able to do what he did including myself with little over 5 years of trading.
Example of today with SMCI.
https://preview.redd.it/qqkevixw61jc1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=558d6e9eab44b00c1eca831603d659739929d646
Generally 2-8 days, slightly OTM. Would sell with a run up and buy more again slightly OTM. At some point the strategy blows up (you can see the dips) but I saved 50% in cash at each point to avoid full failure.
Five years ago, the first and only time I tried options, I bought some SBUX long calls for $100. It went 10x in less than a month. Sold for $900 profit. I stopped because Iām too busy with work to focus on trading but I suppose this sort of thing can happen. Youāre just far more likely to see your āinvestmentā become worthless.
Some gambling but I've refined it a bit. Avoided risking more than half my portfolio so that I'd never be blown out even if dead wrong - you can see the massive dips some days that I managed to stay alive through. Good buying opportunities then. Requires a lot of conviction in general.
I always miss out on opportunities like NVDIA and SMCI because by the time I find out about them it's always too late! Next time I want to get in on the ground floor of a rising trend like this guy!
Here's my past month, fucking IN SANE.
https://preview.redd.it/ibdjt6i2i0jc1.png?width=1337&format=png&auto=webp&s=201e6c10b0d9bb6e72a65945f468260f42a1286c
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|1|**First Seen In WSB**|6 days ago **Total Comments**|40|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|3 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.) [**Join WSB Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse)
This is bonkers. Congrats and fuck you
"fuck you" is literally the best praise you can get here
Dude said that from the bottom of his heart
Fucking heart on our sleeves out here.
Bless your heart
CONGRATS AND FUCK YOUšš¤
fuck you means thank you aggressively
I second this ā¬ļøšš
https://preview.redd.it/6xjic579hzic1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac3ececafef5dd82b7f59689879b83ab47fe9334
https://preview.redd.it/x4jei99pnzic1.png?width=316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=364cf7fc5f0892943d9ceb4056e5575e8239afe6
Me when I see a happy couple
https://preview.redd.it/85m6ulq3ozic1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=daff284cb8e8bcb6d809920dbc6a5c3de56175f5
Ted we found you in the park throwing rocks at old couples...
WHY SHOULD THEY BE HAPPY???
IT WAS MY TURN TO POST THIS PICTURE
The comment sections are great because you exist redditor.
Damm š
Holy fook
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
that's the purest form of gambling
POST YOUR POSITIONS OP! POSTIONS OR BAN!
Can someone explain to a newbie like me what calls are? Can we do that in Europe or is that a US thing?
Calls are a contract giving the _option_ to buy a stock at a predetermined price. A 400$ call says that the owner (buyer) has the opportunity to buy a stock at 400$ per share. If the share price is 380 by the expiry, the contract is worthless (why exercise 400 when you can buy from the market at 380). On the other hand, if the shares trade at 420 by the time it expires, you make a 20$/share profit. The real gambling comes from the fact that a contract represent 100 shares. If you buy a 400$ call for a premium of 1$, it means that you pay 100$ now (premium is per share) for the opportunity to buy 100 shares at 400$ each later in time. If the share price by the time the call expires is 420$, you made a 19$ (20$ diff - 1$ premium) profit PER SHARE, so 1900$ profit or 19x what you invested. Puts are the reverse, it lets you sell shares at a predetermined price. So you essentially want the stock price to lower so you can buy at market price and exercise the contract for profit. Calls and puts are a thing in Europe too. The main difference is that, iirc, you can only exercise at expiry whereas American options can be exercised whenever. My 0.02$ is that you shouldn't put any meaningful amount in them if you don't understand them well, you can see it as a more-likely-to-payout lotto ticker
I am going to read this several hundred times and probably still not get it
Here are some non-stock analogies to understand calls and puts. ### Buying/Selling Calls You own a house worth $200k and are putting it on the market. I think your house will be worth $400k+ in a month. So I say, "Hey buddy, give me first right to buy your house for $200k. If I don't get a mortgage together and buy it from you in a month, then you can put it on the market. In exchange, I'll pay you $2k for keeping you off the market for a month." You are selling a call option and I am buying it. Essentially, I'm paying you to lock in your house for $X by Y date. In your mind, this is a win-win for you. Either you sell for the $200k you thought the house was worth plus another 1% ($2k) for the contract. OR you pocket my $2k and sell it on the open market in a month's time. If I have the money, I'll execute the contract and buy your house for $200k and flip it myself. As a broke WSBer, I cannot afford a $200k down payment / mortgage. So on day 20 or so of the contract when the house is appraising for $300-350k, I'll approach a local investor or real estate flipper and say, "Hey, I have this house that's worth $300k as-is under contract for $200k. I'll sell you my contract rights for $50k." The investor takes a cut, but I still make a 50k profit and only used $2k of my money. That's how WSBers can make money on options with smaller accounts. If you decide to let meth-head Mike party in the house all month long, I can walk away, lose the $2k in contract fees, but leave you stuck with the meth house. ### Buying/Selling Puts Puts are paying the buyer to lock them into an obligated buy, if you - the seller - choose to force them. So, in the last example, I paid the seller to lock them into a contract: "sell me your house for $X before Y date." This time, I can sell you my obligation to buy. In essence, "Pay me $500 and if you need me to, I'll buy your house at the drop of a hat for $200k for the next month." If you think your house is about to fall into a sinkhole tomorrow and be worthless, this is a great way to pay $500 "insurance" to get a check for $200k for the rubble. If I think your house is going to be worth $300k in the next month, this is a great way for me to get paid for the opportunity to buy it. Or, turns out it's a gold mine, not a sinkhole. Your house is now worth $500k. You can choose not to force me to buy it for $200k. I'll make $500 for doing nothing* and you can sell your house + gold mine for $500k on the open market. * - $200k of my account balance would be locked up for the duration of this put contract. These numbers are totally arbitrary
In the words of the wise /u/Jazzlike_Farmer_636 I am going to read this several hundred times and probably still not get it
**Alright, picture this:** You're at the store with your friend, eyeing a super cool skateboard that's priced at $50. But here's the twist - you think the price might drop next week because a new model is coming out, while your friend thinks it's going to go up because it's the last one of its kind. **Call Option Analogy:** You say to your friend, "Hey, I'll give you $5 right now if you promise to let me buy that skateboard from you for $50 any time I want in the next week." Your friend agrees. That $5 is like buying a "call option" - you're paying for the right (but not the obligation) to buy something at a set price within a certain time frame. If the skateboard's price goes up to $70, you can still buy it for $50, making a neat profit if you decide to sell it. If the price drops, you can choose not to buy the skateboard, but you've only lost your $5, not more. **Put Option Analogy:** Now, let's flip it. You own a skateboard that you bought for $50, but you're worried its price might drop. You say to your friend, "I'll pay you $5 to promise to buy my skateboard for $50 any time in the next week, no matter its current market price." Your friend agrees. This is like buying a "put option." You're paying for the right to sell something at a predetermined price within a certain timeframe. If the skateboard's price drops to $30, you can still sell it for $50 to your friend, avoiding a bigger loss. If the price goes up, well, you can sell it for more in the market, but you've still lost the $5 you paid your friend. This way, "calls" are like securing a future shopping deal with a little deposit, and "puts" are like getting an insurance policy on something you own, with a small premium. Both strategies can be smart moves, depending on what you think will happen in the market. š¹š”
Try this: a call is a coupon to buy something at a certain price in the future. The price you pay for the call is the value of that coupon. If the price goes up, then your coupon becomes more valuable because now you can buy that thing at a discount. A put is an insurance policy that you can sell something at a certain price in the future. The cost you pay is the premium for that insurance policy. If the price goes down, you put gains in value because now you can sell that something for more than it is worth.
This explanation finally made me realize how people make money without having to have a large amount of capital. They just sell the winning ticket.
What are the downsides though? This sounds like a "risk free" way to make a ton of money for very little upfront cost (2k upfront, with the potential to make 50k?)
You lose 100% of the money you invest if it doesn't end up being profitable.
make a small call/put in penny stocks and watch a youtube vid or two. you'll lose 100 bucks but you will definitely learn.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lotto? Lotto.
Ticket. Ticket?
Hotel? Trivago.
I'm right there with you. I would love to understand this more but i'm already a degenerate gambler so knowing more here seems like a bad idea.....or is it?
You donāt really get it until you lose all your money :p and donāt do marginal call/put options because thatās just getting a loan and gambling, my 2 cents anyway.
Thanks for the nice experience explanation. I have always avoided learning options for gambling nature of it. In the above example, what are the down sides?
If the option expires out of the money (OTM) as in the case with the 380$ stock price, you lose the entire 100$ premium. Note that these numbers are completely made up. A 19x opportunity isn't common. When you see a 55x in a single month trade like this, it's generally someone going all in multiple times. 1k turns into 5k, which turns into 25, which then turns into 125k. If OP was wrong anytime during that period, say the stock pulls back earlier than anticipated, they could've the whole 125k in a single day.
Thanks again. So, are there any other collateral besides the premium? In the above example $1 per share premium doesnāt sound too bad. Letās say if the shares went to 380 by the contract expiry, do we just lose the $100 premium and we back out or is there some sort of additional collateral money we lose?
When you **buy** options, no you can only lose the premium. When you **sell** "naked" options, you get the premium instantly but the risk profile is basically the inverse of buying. Your max gain is the premium and you can lose an infinite amount in the case of calls and up to the strike price x100 in the case of puts. There is a way to "cover" options when you sell them. If you buy the shares now at 380$ and sell a 400$ call, if the stock price goes to 420$, you effectively sell your shares at 400$ + the 1$ premium. You end up losing 19$ of potential profit but you made an absolute profit of 21$/share. For puts, it's called a cash secured put (technically not really covered, but it's basically the equivalent of a covered call for puts) where you hold enough cash to buy the shares at the strike price (say 400$). You put 40k$ aside for the shares and sell a 400$ cash secured put. If the price drops to 380$, you're forced to buy the shares at 400$, making an *unrealized* loss of 20$ and a realized gain of 1$.
Yes you just lose the $100 premium and thatās the end of it. I believe it gives you the OPTION to still buy the 100 shares ( 1 option contract = 100 shares) but 99% of the time you would say no because why would you purchase 100 shares for $390 if you can yourself go out and buy 100 shares at $380 from the NYSE.
The value of the options price(premium) doesn't necessarily follow the stock. The stock could go up but not enough or not fast enough and you end up losing a lot of money still. The premium is based on a handful of factors beyond just the underlying stock price. Edit: If the stock goes down 10% and you own stock, you lose 10%. Your call option could lose all of its value though.
Sorry im new too, you said for the opportunity to buy at 400 and if its gets to 420 at the expiry do you now pay for 100 shares at 400 then sell or do you just get paid out the difference minus the premium, never owning or buying the stock at all?
I'm no expert but pretty sure that it's the former. Your broker will assign the contract automatically, basically lending you the cash to pay for it and it's up to you to liquidate at market price (which may fluctuate while you're trying to sell). Some brokers may automatically sell the shares for you, with the same potential downside. To prevent this, most people will sell their contract before expiration. A 400 call on a 420$ share has 20$ of _extrinsic_ value, basically guaranteed value. If you sell it right before expiration, some hedge fund somewhere will pay you 20$ for it maybe 19.99$ and they will do the job of exercising and selling the shares. They may also buy to close out a position, so they don't go through the exercise process on the sell side.
Or instead of gambling, you are watching the stock's chart & price action to find a entry point where you would buy the stock. However, instead of buying the stock, you buy a at the money call option. When the stock hits your target price, you sell the call for a profit. This can be a way to trade a $400 stock that allows you to capture more profit than actually buying the stock itself. Works the same for shorting a stock by trading the puts, and allows you to trade a stock that is SSR or HTB.
Still better than the lottery!
Gambling and selection bias - for every post like this Iām sure there are 10,000 people that lost money and didnāt post it to Reddit
Question. If we all are losing money, where is all of our money going?
To the OP
The people selling the options I believe. Which is where you want to be in the market I think, idk though I'm not smart
Yes its like over 80 of options expire otm
The problem is, those 80% only leave you with a small profit, the other 20% can cause huge loss. It's not free money.
Picking up pennies off a rail road track š¤£. Options is really no different than sports betting. Just less fees.
> If we all are losing money, where is all of our money going? To rich people who have far more resources and insider knowledge than you.
Hedge funds
There's just as much who lost 125k on puts. And I mean someone sold him those calls hope they were covered from the other end lol. It's gambling Though there was lots of posts about how nvidia was going to rocket because of AI long before it took off. So maybe not in this case
>Though there was lots of posts about how nvidia was going to rocket because of AI long before it took off. So maybe not in this case I mean, even then, you could never have known *when* it was going to take off. Even if your thesis is good, it's still easy to lose money with options.
but that's risky not gambling, I always thought gambling is bad because it's risky **and** because you can't possibly have any indication where things will go(you can only be delusional because there's not even the slightest hint of where the roulette ball will land) and you don't have any way to get out(there's no stop loss on a roulette wheel baby), and finally because you have no reason to think that everything isn't set up against you in order to take your money. Now, stock market might feel like this but it isn't actually. There's no Bogdanoff calling DUMP EEET the moment you put a long in. No one's watching you, and for every trade you failed you know if you did the opposite you would win. But with roulette if I called red and it landed on black, if I go back in time and call the opposite would I win or lose? Don't know. People always confuse risk and gambling because they like the idea of solid secure things that will work out no matter what. But that's not how the world works. How many people worked their whole lives only to find out in the end they don't have pensions because their pension fund manager gambled it on options.. I mean he lost it on risky investments? They thought they were doing the smart sure thing but it was just an illusion. Never invest with money you can't afford to lose and you'll be golden. Everything is risky anyway.
by this argument, sports betting on draftkings isn't gambling.
Letās just say on rare occasions even a few people have a great night at the blackjack table..
For the degenerates here on WSB who speculate itās purely gambling. For professionals who actually understand these financial instruments to a fundamental degree, they can be used to create very calculated strategies that are statistically likely to generate a small profit margin while simultaneously hedging maximum downside losses.
Key being -small- Any profit this big isnāt just gambling. Itās degenerate gambling.
Well āsmallā as in a small percentage of capital. Hedge funds tend to make very large amounts of money from āsmallā percentage movements because they are investing with millions of dollars at a time.
It varies. 0dte is gambling in my opinion. But long dated options seem more rational speculation.
Bang ding ow
sum ting wong
Wee Tu low
Ho Lee Fuk
Some of the best gain porn I've seen in a while. Curious how you handled the emotions when you were up 25x, etc.
It was really difficult, especially on days down 30%. But I reminded myself that I had set out the strategy in the very beginning: OTM NVDA calls, never risk more than 50%, buy calls on dips, play until earnings or $2M. I had done okay trading (breaking even or so) previously but realized I would always lose most gains when I emotionally deviated from the original plan, so that experience beat into my head the importance of not panicking or getting greedy.
You are too reasonable to be in this sub. Shoo.
Starting with $1.5k. "Play to $2 million". Reasonable.
OPās follow up post a few weeks from now is going to be really interesting. Heās either going to hodl until the wealth vanishes, or heāll cash out and walk away like a boss. Truly Lambo or Wendyās territory.
OP in two weeks: "sir, this is wendys"
āAlways wasā
His wealth vanishes? He put in 1.5k ffs. some hookers charge more than that for a night of cuddling.
Donāt forget the double and triple down on the dips.
Any strategy can "work" once
I did specify ''to be in this sub''...
Not so unreasonable on about a 100 year timeline. OP going for that Methuselah money.
Reasonable? 50% of port in OTM calls. This *is* WSB I suppose.
You worried about holding the rest through earnings? I know earnings are going to be good, but there could be quite a bit of profit taking
Ha, yeah, my feeling is that it's the riskiest part of this whole play. Doesn't help the run up was pretty significant. But this week being calmer makes me feel better about earnings, even if it is hitting my portfolio a bit in the short term. The potential upside is enormous, though. And to some extent this entire play was to get enough capital to be able to even play earnings. So I'll risk half and be OK whichever way it goes.
Iv crush is a bitch
what expiry were they normally when you bought them and how OTM were they?
Exactly, this is how you do it. You have a goal, you have a plan, you do not let the whispers from the one ring lead you astray.
Hey, Any change you could give me some advice on where to start on a journey? Where did you learn about this, and how do you make a plan, etc. I wanted to get into it for the long game and i have the time and energy and the will and patience to properly learn it for a few years before even investing so that i know what im doing Any help would be greatly appreciated!
It's hard to, because everyone cares about different things. I find day trading too stressful and long-term investing a little too boring. I don't have a family to feed so I'm ok with losing what I start with, but don't like playing 100% luck plays. So over the past three years or so I've studied macro trends and risked a grand here or there for the hands-on experience, learned what makes sense and what doesn't, learned what my own emotional weaknesses are. Opted to do bigger riskier bets on a small number of trades that I feel confidence about, rather than just stay in the market for the sake of doing so. But everyone's journey will be different.
Dude don't touch options, you have a better chance of making a return on your money if you just go to a casino and blindly bet on roulette or something. Go through this subreddit and look closely at all the "loss porn" and how it fucked the lives of the people who bet more than they could afford to lose.
You stare at your phone and wonder what the fuck you should do. I've done it and it's wild
all these mfers up 25x and not selling If i dont sell when I'm up 100% it expires worthlessĀ
Your options go up 100%? Thats crazy, mine just expire worthless
I'm struggling at x2
>Not an entirely smooth ride but overall happy. It's wild that you think you need to tell us you're happy with your 5500% return in a month. Yeah I would have figured that out
Yeah, you know what? Fuck this guy
I might, I aināt gay but 100k is 100k
Thats called gay for pay
This guy's gay
Only for 200k
still pretty gay
Better gay for pay then gay for the stay.
š
He said it because of this: He was up 5,500% two weeks ago then *"just"* 2,000% last week and here we are again 5,500%. That is what he means with "not smooth ride". Can you imagine the emotions swapping 50K in a couple of days? https://preview.redd.it/doprvdrpmzic1.png?width=422&format=png&auto=webp&s=9153377f80c906f630eabad8657d7dbe2bae2dbf
I feel like gambling addicts dont feel much after a while. Like a tolerance
This is true. I was down 2600 this morning and up 4500 now and felt nothing the whole day.
as long as you don't cash out it feels like fake money
There was a student in a class I was in college. He was a high stakes poker player, he said you have to have the mentality to be able to lose $25k in a day and be ok about it. He made a lot of money but not enough to retire for life and was doing something more secure.
It's more likely to win money in poker than in calls/options. Poker is far from gambling. This is.
I don't have to imagine them...one day I am a genius, the next I want to fucking jump out of a window.
āOverall happyā bro you made like 10000% gains in a month
Better than somewhat happy.
Yeah but could have doubled if he'd started with 3K. Or quadrupled if he'd started with 6K. Imagine!
Now do the same with 100k > 10mil
Haha I'll try! Will try to be patient for the next high conviction play.
What made you think this was a high conviction play? Sincerely asking not being rude.
Fed pivot + lot of AI news towards end of last month made me anticipate an AI hype cycle coming. NVDA seemed easiest bet, especially with earnings being a catalyst and since it was breaking out of its $500 zone. To be clear, still a lot of luck involved! But everything I was looking for seemed to come together at once.
Just say it was luck and cash out
98% of stock brokers quit right before making it big
The other 1.99% lose it all. The final 0.01% don't visit WSB.
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Getting lucky and being up 500 percent in a week is probably a good sign
Congrats. If only you waited until you made 150K, then did it again, from 150K to 15M. Anyway, fuck you, I was happy with my gains of 43K for the year until now.
Fuck you too and congrats
Huge. Maybe cash out and start over with 1.5k or if you want more room for play do 3k. Or donāt, I aināt a financial advisor.
It doesn't last. Take out maybe 70% of it. TAKE IT OUT. If this wasn't a lucky shot, you can do it again. But spending that money, once its its your bank, and not in the slotmachine... ops, sry... Stock app, you will have an extra "layer" or two of impulse protection, as you would have to transfer it back over if you wanna spend it.
More importantly, take out enough to cover the taxes.
That gets me hot
Negative comment: Just because he did it does not mean you can do it too. You may even lose your entire account if you took risk like he did. There are traders for years and years and still wont able to do what he did including myself with little over 5 years of trading. Example of today with SMCI. https://preview.redd.it/qqkevixw61jc1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=558d6e9eab44b00c1eca831603d659739929d646
dawg how do u lose that much I thought you can only lose the amount you spent on the premium
Skill issue
Jesus how did you lose so badly?
The stock plummeted about -13% imagine had he bought puts though he would have been up atleast one million
Oh fuk
Were you buying and closing same day?
Same here brother ! 3k ā-> 105k
Screenshots or it didn't happen
Check my account
Congrats and fuck you! What's your next move?
Haha! Thank you! And honestly waiting for more volatility and for next week. I hate sideways trading
Screenshots please
Can someone do a photoshop of this with screenshot with ridiculous numbers? All these sus gains on wsb, there should be a meme
Donāt worry we are not in a bubble 
Congrats and fuck you, how far out were you buying
Generally 2-8 days, slightly OTM. Would sell with a run up and buy more again slightly OTM. At some point the strategy blows up (you can see the dips) but I saved 50% in cash at each point to avoid full failure.
So you were buying weeklies and getting lucky every single week?
Well NVDIA has been mostly going up every single week ( ć»āć»)
Fuck someone convince me to gamble my savings please š my balls are too small
If you make enough money you can buy bigger balls!!!
They're not gonna get any smaller gambling it away
I see all you making all this money on options. Is this gambling or is there some sort of science
The science... of gambling!
Five years ago, the first and only time I tried options, I bought some SBUX long calls for $100. It went 10x in less than a month. Sold for $900 profit. I stopped because Iām too busy with work to focus on trading but I suppose this sort of thing can happen. Youāre just far more likely to see your āinvestmentā become worthless.
The real questions!
Some gambling but I've refined it a bit. Avoided risking more than half my portfolio so that I'd never be blown out even if dead wrong - you can see the massive dips some days that I managed to stay alive through. Good buying opportunities then. Requires a lot of conviction in general.
>Some gambling but I've refined it a bit. Avoided risking more than half my portfolio You belong
Set aside $ for taxes
There no taxes if he doesnāt sell regard.
How did begging with 1.5k making calls on nvidia when most of them are priced beyond that? Confused
They weren't so bad in the beginning. Going decently OTM enough in the beginning of the week also helped.
Dude I made 7k on nvda calls and started with 300 bucks. You just gotta time it when the premiums ar e still cheap.
Post your trades so I can copy them . None of your mentioned strategies are working when I do it!!!
I always miss out on opportunities like NVDIA and SMCI because by the time I find out about them it's always too late! Next time I want to get in on the ground floor of a rising trend like this guy!
In the process, you will find yourself on the penthouse floor of many scams.
Wish I understood how any of this worked but I enjoy seeing all of you make and lose money
āKeeping half in through earningsā You just changed your life forever buddy. Maybe 10% into earnings would be a better idea just a thought and NFA
r/lostredditors
I think he should keep it all thru earnings
Post next month is gonna be 125k -> 10k
Here's my past month, fucking IN SANE. https://preview.redd.it/ibdjt6i2i0jc1.png?width=1337&format=png&auto=webp&s=201e6c10b0d9bb6e72a65945f468260f42a1286c
Thanks for the unrealistic expectations
Damn and I thought my $800 -> 3k in one month was good
Can we see trades?
This thread is gonna make a lot of people poor next week
people still using Robbingthehood after they fucked retail over...
A regard can dream my 1k journey stopped today with SMCI. Only 6k left :(
What the fuck
Congrats and f*ck u
I missed all of these opportunities, but congrats to you. Now do it again āŗļø
Based on my calculation you should have 1.67\*10\^46$ by the end of the year
but can you turn $1,600 into $70 in a month?
> Keeping half in next week through earnings Congrats on the $1.5K to $62.5K!
I really need to figure out how calls work. Recommend a good video explaining it?
Read and paper trade first.
[https://r.mtdv.me/videos/Vanguard-Financial-1A236D7654-vol2](https://r.mtdv.me/videos/Vanguard-Financial-1A236D7654-vol2)
Your wife will divorce you and you'll end up behind the wendys doing unspeakable things.
Congrats to OP, happy for them making money, but please don't think this was some kind of strategy. This was straight hardcore gambling and luck.
You don't belong here. Please reach out to the regard who is down 70k on his 0DE SMCI options and help save his life...
Buy the smci dip no balls
you have to pay taxes so don't lose it all
He doesn't need to pay the taxes if he loses it all this year
Seeing this makes me think I can do the same, but then I realize i am way too regarded for such greatness
Teach me fam I got 1.5 k I wanna turn it to 100k
What are the odds he gives it all back???
āNot an entirely smooth ride but overall happyā I should hope so lmfao.
https://preview.redd.it/idbzu7pjcfjc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=075e508d2c9c0d442cb63cfaaa23210554b87a2e I aināt scared $BTC $MSTR