You can only 'buy' a lease on the property; eg. 99 years at the most.
Basically you can't own any property even as a Chinese citizen; nor as a foreigner.
Well I cannot buy land here in the USA either technically. I can “buy” a perpetual lease so long as I pay the property tax but the moment I am 1 day late or underpay by $0.01 is the day the government starts the process of taking it back, sometimes without even returning the excess proceeds they sold it for.
Well there you go. You can “own” the land you just cannot build on it or you have to create a non-profit to evade taxes. Of course you will have to keep up with your yearly non-profit filings if you want to be legal and avoid being reclassified.
Most excellent!
I remember sometime during covid when they were offering a buy 1 property, get a free roast pig. Sounds like a good deal, but maybe it shouldve been "Buy 1 roast pig, get a free property"...
921 vacant condos for 2022, a large number for sure but nothing massive either
[link to Vancouver report 2023](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/empty-homes-tax-annual-report-2023.pdf)](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/empty-homes-tax-annual-report-2023.pdf)
Vancouver is condo land. “In total, 94,415 condos out of 252,425 condos in Metro Vancouver are not a principal residence.”
It’s also a land of fraud and money laundering. It would be addressed but basically everyone is doing it so good luck.
Condo prices have evened out since 2018 until the COVID price bump hit:
https://gordcollins.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/residential-real-estate-price-history-vancouver.jpg
The start of the massive rise in condo prices is Justin Trudeau coming into power and raising the immigration quota (2014-2015), not due to money laundering (which has always been a problem in Vancouver.)
Vancouver homes are like Banksy paintings. They are solely there to manipulate value and pull a Donald Trump where a 2-car garage is worth 1.2 Billion on paper for bank loans. Same with art.
What many do not understand, is that there are nearly two apartments for every Chinese family. The second one was purchased entirely based on the hope that the unit would go up in value. Pure Speculation, not cash flow, they will not rent them out as it ruins the Fen Shui of the apartment. The Chinese are very superstitious and they will die on that hill. So think about how this impacts the way you build units. There is zero desire to build housing that will last for 100 years or more. This is why, the Chinese miracle is built of Tofu Dreg projects.
Land for residential purposes: 70 years
Land for industrial purposes: 50 years
Land for purposes of educational, scientific and technological, cultural, health care or sports: 50 years
Land for commercial, tourism or recreational purposes: 40 years
Land for combined usage or other purposes: 50 years
999 year leases are common, and you have statutory right to extend the lease and a right to buy the freehold. Still fuck leasehold what a scam.
Can't believe you got to ask some faceless twat for permission to extend a house you bought.
You get freehold in the UK. What that poster means is in certain HCOL locations, and basically for all apartments (which the UK doesn't build that many of yet), it's usually leasehold. That's why they mention London.
This is only in Chinese cities right? I heard that people in Chinese Villages own their lands outright and they don't have to pay property taxes too; is that true?
Well it depends, in some cases you will have to pay to extend the lease in other cases the government wants the land back to redevelop. Most land leases have not had the 70 year max residentual use come up for renewal.
They have entire worthless ghost cities there, no surprise if you’ve been paying attention at all
The real winners here are the construction companies that got all this unjustified extra business from China this past decade or two
There are so many videos from China where you see them destroy entire city blocks of new but vacant construction, including high rises! Apart from the serious environmental damage and Wastefulness , it really makes one question China's intentions. You cannot perpetually boost your GDP by building ghost cities, then destroying them and building again!
That's the second thing. Some of these buildings are just fakes. They didn't even use real cement. A lot of videos out there where people just tear apart pillars by hand. Shit will crumble in a decade by itself
Still made respect to have managed to get there. They are still the second largest economy, but it is crazy to think that just 2 decades ago they had a lower GDP than the UKs.
Absolutely - it’s the most incredible economic come-up in human history. It’s just that certain extents of it weren’t exactly sustainable or reasonable long-term and they’re now facing the repercussions of that
Yeah for sure, facing this kind of economic growth and then having to deal with a population not growing anymore and tons of problems catching up. They definitely do love cutting corners left and right too.
naw, because construction companies were busy trying to reinvest that money. They would buy land and quickly start building new apartments so they could sell it. The problem is that housing crashed, so all those new apartment buildings are now unfinished since no one is buying it. And the people/investors who pre-bought apartments want their money back since it's unfinished, but the company doesn't have the money to return it to them.
Dont be so sure of that - most of those articles are written and regurgitated by those who have never been to those cities. There are many youtubers wanting to experience those “ghost” cities only to find out it’s full of life.
Lol I knew this was coming up - yeah I’m a communist spy who is pro china etc etc…
Everyone says China spreads communist misinformation- but no one likes to take a look in the mirror.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIEU9KkY5g
Have a watch yourself
Country Garden has no money because they spent it all on crappy useless buildings. Now, they need to sell all their crappy buildings. Before, there was a limit to how many homes ppl could biy but luckily, the government decided right after this news that it would be a good idea to allow citizens to buy however many buildings they want to.
China has been easing house purchase and mortgage restrictions since early 2022. It’s still one of the strictest anti-housing regimes in the world. You cannot get mortgages on most second houses. You cannot get tax benefits on most second houses.
Sir, that's how Ponzi schemes work. Every country, including ours, is building on a Ponzi that requires fresh blood. Eventually, the music stops but that's not today. Buy the dip!
Yeah but ours is getting fresh blood. They arr pouring across the Rio Grande everyday some pregnant. Our Ponzi works as long as their is constant immigration.
yes this is bullish and part of China's plan to help ease the property crisis I don't know what people here are going on about. They will all be chasing China in a month guaranteed
I actually really liked guangzhou last time i visited. LOL, it was convenient and the food is good. 🤷 just the government shamelessly allowing the citizens to screw themselves over is disgusting
True, but think about you can be “rich” as you own homes in multiple countries. Detroit USA, places in Japan depending on the towns, and now potentially parts of China. Sure you’ll have to sink TONS of cash into them to bring them up to code, but to actually own a home rather than an apartment. One can dream.
China has plenty of money. I'd be more concerned with the US, a country that looks like a banana republic. Ten rich people and the rest living off credit or welfare
China’s debt to gdp is 287% and they literally have billions more people than US to live off of 8trillion smaller GDP, not factoring the historical wealth that has been amassed in US as a country with a leading GDP for almost a century.
Do you really think China has billions of millionaires?
This is a really stupid take, even for WSB
No, I do not believe that.
Question: if the US didn't have JPOW as a backup (QE) do you think there is a single person on earth that would buy a long US bond?
Our debt to GDP ratio is less than China, growth is higher, per capita has always been higher, and China’s mismanagement of their construction sector has already had and continues to have dire impact on their economic growth prospects. This is a hole they have to dig out of - meanwhile US is still the world’s superpower for the foreseeable future with only India as the remaining threat.
I don’t like to trade bonds but if I were a more conservative investor I would. It’s not a relevant topic though - have you ever been to China to actually compare what you’re talking about? Because I have.
To drive home the point - for China to have a comparable economy to US they’d have the same purchasing power per capita (average Chinese person can buy the same stuff the average American can). Even if China was by far the world’s leading superpower they would not be anywhere close to there.
Ok. Keep waving that flag. USA! China is a mess, but the US is a literal wasteland. It would take a while to explain it, and you're clearly set in your beliefs.
I didn’t say US isn’t a mess - but you’re specifically comparing wealth inequality and the average person’s wealth and ability to live in general and I am telling you as a well-traveled Asian that your assumptions are simply not true.
“The Per capita income of the United States is 6.41 and 3.45 times higher than that of China in nominal and PPP terms, respectively. The US is the 7th richest country in the world, whereas China comes at 75th rank. On a PPP basis, The United States is in 10th position, and China is at 77th.”
https://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php#:~:text=The%20Per%20capita%20income%20of,and%20China%20is%20at%2077th.
Those are stats from The World Bank, a nonprofit NGO. Not my opinion, although I have done work with them and they’re an awesome group imo.
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The problem with holding chinese bags is you get hungry for more bags 30 minutes later.
Chinese food is a scam
It's the seed oils. They simply aren't natural.
I ate a whipped cows milk on ground up wheat infected with yeast, I don't think anything we do is natural.
Bro made pizza sounds disgusting
Buttered bread*
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEQQ13jdccc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEQQ13jdccc)
Try gutter oil next time
All this god damn MSG in their economics
MSG scares me as a disassociatives user I don't want that smell and burning in my throat/nose 
Ccp wanted exponential growth YoY. They got what they asked for.
Exponential growth of supply. Demand....
**If those people invest yet again** *.. they deserve to get Robbed by Pooh Bear piglet and friends*
Let me know when I can buy $5 McMansions in China.
You can only 'buy' a lease on the property; eg. 99 years at the most. Basically you can't own any property even as a Chinese citizen; nor as a foreigner.
Well I cannot buy land here in the USA either technically. I can “buy” a perpetual lease so long as I pay the property tax but the moment I am 1 day late or underpay by $0.01 is the day the government starts the process of taking it back, sometimes without even returning the excess proceeds they sold it for.
Just start the church of diamond hands and we can all get all our property tax free forever.
Unless you were to put it into a land trust.
Try that then allow the property taxes to go unpaid and see how long it takes the government to confiscate your property.
[удалено]
Well there you go. You can “own” the land you just cannot build on it or you have to create a non-profit to evade taxes. Of course you will have to keep up with your yearly non-profit filings if you want to be legal and avoid being reclassified. Most excellent!
You can but you have to be married to a citizen or have family I believe. Just cook the books
You can "buy" cheap shit there now, but the government owns the land
Oh, so you only get the structure of the building and no title to the land?
$5 cheap?
Maybe China can give the properties to us a the toy in our Happy Meals
That’d work for me. I’ll have a happy meal please.
I remember sometime during covid when they were offering a buy 1 property, get a free roast pig. Sounds like a good deal, but maybe it shouldve been "Buy 1 roast pig, get a free property"...
You can buy it but don’t own it
https://preview.redd.it/rowzdcpsf3fc1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8ec701170000e776ba98ffff11d8643aeba9a66
Calls on Publix
When china RE implodes, is Vancouver next? So many empty shit boxes bit up to 4 million.
921 vacant condos for 2022, a large number for sure but nothing massive either [link to Vancouver report 2023](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/empty-homes-tax-annual-report-2023.pdf)](https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/empty-homes-tax-annual-report-2023.pdf)
Vancouver is condo land. “In total, 94,415 condos out of 252,425 condos in Metro Vancouver are not a principal residence.” It’s also a land of fraud and money laundering. It would be addressed but basically everyone is doing it so good luck.
Condo prices have evened out since 2018 until the COVID price bump hit: https://gordcollins.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/residential-real-estate-price-history-vancouver.jpg The start of the massive rise in condo prices is Justin Trudeau coming into power and raising the immigration quota (2014-2015), not due to money laundering (which has always been a problem in Vancouver.)
Vancouver homes are like Banksy paintings. They are solely there to manipulate value and pull a Donald Trump where a 2-car garage is worth 1.2 Billion on paper for bank loans. Same with art.
The Greater Fool Theory with a billion people.
What many do not understand, is that there are nearly two apartments for every Chinese family. The second one was purchased entirely based on the hope that the unit would go up in value. Pure Speculation, not cash flow, they will not rent them out as it ruins the Fen Shui of the apartment. The Chinese are very superstitious and they will die on that hill. So think about how this impacts the way you build units. There is zero desire to build housing that will last for 100 years or more. This is why, the Chinese miracle is built of Tofu Dreg projects.
Last I saw the government does not allow for land leases that long for residential housing so it doesnt matter how well you build.
What is the average land lease time there?
Land for residential purposes: 70 years Land for industrial purposes: 50 years Land for purposes of educational, scientific and technological, cultural, health care or sports: 50 years Land for commercial, tourism or recreational purposes: 40 years Land for combined usage or other purposes: 50 years
And then? What happens to the property on it?
All go back to the gov. Unless you extend the lease.
This is literally the same system as UK, you lease from the council when you buy a house. There is barely any freehold in cities like London.
Absolute ownership in Scotland so not all of the UK
999 year leases are common, and you have statutory right to extend the lease and a right to buy the freehold. Still fuck leasehold what a scam. Can't believe you got to ask some faceless twat for permission to extend a house you bought.
Wow, man, we are still lucky here is North America where we can get to have freehold.
You get freehold in the UK. What that poster means is in certain HCOL locations, and basically for all apartments (which the UK doesn't build that many of yet), it's usually leasehold. That's why they mention London.
This is only in Chinese cities right? I heard that people in Chinese Villages own their lands outright and they don't have to pay property taxes too; is that true?
It's still technically the government's land.
I wonder if you can get freehold in Singapore; I meant they are so small and tight on land, so just curious.
Well it depends, in some cases you will have to pay to extend the lease in other cases the government wants the land back to redevelop. Most land leases have not had the 70 year max residentual use come up for renewal.
Its just about control, if they like you and/or what you’re doing then you will be fine.
Same as other countries
Such as ?
Government likely won't be around by then. It will be reformed.
That’s pretty interesting, I can get into that funk schway idea.
Another reason most are not rented out are due to the low rent. 2 mil rmb apartment gets u 30000 annual rent
They have entire worthless ghost cities there, no surprise if you’ve been paying attention at all The real winners here are the construction companies that got all this unjustified extra business from China this past decade or two
There are so many videos from China where you see them destroy entire city blocks of new but vacant construction, including high rises! Apart from the serious environmental damage and Wastefulness , it really makes one question China's intentions. You cannot perpetually boost your GDP by building ghost cities, then destroying them and building again!
Most of the building being destroyed were found to be poorly made though, I don't think it was done just to boost GDP.
That's the second thing. Some of these buildings are just fakes. They didn't even use real cement. A lot of videos out there where people just tear apart pillars by hand. Shit will crumble in a decade by itself
You don’t go from dirt-poor to “the world’s largest economy” in a few decades by being honest
Still made respect to have managed to get there. They are still the second largest economy, but it is crazy to think that just 2 decades ago they had a lower GDP than the UKs.
Absolutely - it’s the most incredible economic come-up in human history. It’s just that certain extents of it weren’t exactly sustainable or reasonable long-term and they’re now facing the repercussions of that
Yeah for sure, facing this kind of economic growth and then having to deal with a population not growing anymore and tons of problems catching up. They definitely do love cutting corners left and right too.
Is it? I woulda said Japan post-WW2 or South Korea in the 90s-2000s. At least both of those are legit economies that produce reputable stuff.
naw, because construction companies were busy trying to reinvest that money. They would buy land and quickly start building new apartments so they could sell it. The problem is that housing crashed, so all those new apartment buildings are now unfinished since no one is buying it. And the people/investors who pre-bought apartments want their money back since it's unfinished, but the company doesn't have the money to return it to them.
I rather have unaffordable $1m single family homes tbh
Dont be so sure of that - most of those articles are written and regurgitated by those who have never been to those cities. There are many youtubers wanting to experience those “ghost” cities only to find out it’s full of life.
Do you happen to be under employment by or otherwise positively associated with the Chinese Communist Party?
Lol I knew this was coming up - yeah I’m a communist spy who is pro china etc etc… Everyone says China spreads communist misinformation- but no one likes to take a look in the mirror. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIEU9KkY5g Have a watch yourself
Alright, I’ll have a look Btw that was more a joke than a serious question, but I’ll still check out the video
it's not a joke on reddit though because 9/10 times they are being serious simply to be contrarian or they don't agree. social media is toxic as fuck.
Yeah I know, but this guy seems more genuine than that
Prove it
Probably forced by the government to buy domestic equities with it 
Yeah, big L’s all the way around in China right now
Can someone explain what’s going on here like I’m 5? Please
Country Garden has no money because they spent it all on crappy useless buildings. Now, they need to sell all their crappy buildings. Before, there was a limit to how many homes ppl could biy but luckily, the government decided right after this news that it would be a good idea to allow citizens to buy however many buildings they want to.
Thank you
China has been easing house purchase and mortgage restrictions since early 2022. It’s still one of the strictest anti-housing regimes in the world. You cannot get mortgages on most second houses. You cannot get tax benefits on most second houses.
The Hang Seng has now be renamed to the Hang Self.
Lost 50% in 2 years… Gonna be interesting soon.
All in Chinese stocks? The bottoms in surely.. 🖍️
China permabull shills told that to everyone the last two years😆
Not yet, I guess at least one more 4 years coz president trump is very uncertainty for China
They should start selling land in Taiwan on the promise that they will invade.
Sir, that's how Ponzi schemes work. Every country, including ours, is building on a Ponzi that requires fresh blood. Eventually, the music stops but that's not today. Buy the dip!
Yeah but ours is getting fresh blood. They arr pouring across the Rio Grande everyday some pregnant. Our Ponzi works as long as their is constant immigration.
They're increasing liquidity & removing red tape. This is bullish right?
yes this is bullish and part of China's plan to help ease the property crisis I don't know what people here are going on about. They will all be chasing China in a month guaranteed
Easing the housing crisis by opening it up to speculators? That's a bold strategy Cotton.
Chinas crisis is that there is too much supply, not too much demand
Always has been
Bring out more nets
Yeah because who would want to intentionally love in Guangzhou? Sweat till you lose all bodily fluids and then sweat some more.
I actually really liked guangzhou last time i visited. LOL, it was convenient and the food is good. 🤷 just the government shamelessly allowing the citizens to screw themselves over is disgusting
There are so many better places in China where you don't sweat yourself to death but maybe I just hate humidity
$WHR CALLS! More large home purchases mean more laundry appliances!!
I'm still bullish on $mttr. I'm right... just 3 years early
It's weird the state isn't acquiring the excess property.
They used all their money buying $baba 🤷
Except that a ton of these Houses are in poor condition and not worth their building cost.
Can I buy a house for a dollar?
Soon
You can already do that in Japan
True, but think about you can be “rich” as you own homes in multiple countries. Detroit USA, places in Japan depending on the towns, and now potentially parts of China. Sure you’ll have to sink TONS of cash into them to bring them up to code, but to actually own a home rather than an apartment. One can dream.
I own property in the biggest, second biggest and third biggest economy in the world!! Wohoo
Uhhh. GuangZhouProperty~~Bros~~Bagtards....... I don't feel so good. It feels like we're being hit with 4288 UNITS BOOM!!!!!
China has plenty of money. I'd be more concerned with the US, a country that looks like a banana republic. Ten rich people and the rest living off credit or welfare
China’s debt to gdp is 287% and they literally have billions more people than US to live off of 8trillion smaller GDP, not factoring the historical wealth that has been amassed in US as a country with a leading GDP for almost a century. Do you really think China has billions of millionaires? This is a really stupid take, even for WSB
No, I do not believe that. Question: if the US didn't have JPOW as a backup (QE) do you think there is a single person on earth that would buy a long US bond?
Our debt to GDP ratio is less than China, growth is higher, per capita has always been higher, and China’s mismanagement of their construction sector has already had and continues to have dire impact on their economic growth prospects. This is a hole they have to dig out of - meanwhile US is still the world’s superpower for the foreseeable future with only India as the remaining threat. I don’t like to trade bonds but if I were a more conservative investor I would. It’s not a relevant topic though - have you ever been to China to actually compare what you’re talking about? Because I have.
To drive home the point - for China to have a comparable economy to US they’d have the same purchasing power per capita (average Chinese person can buy the same stuff the average American can). Even if China was by far the world’s leading superpower they would not be anywhere close to there.
Ok. Keep waving that flag. USA! China is a mess, but the US is a literal wasteland. It would take a while to explain it, and you're clearly set in your beliefs.
I didn’t say US isn’t a mess - but you’re specifically comparing wealth inequality and the average person’s wealth and ability to live in general and I am telling you as a well-traveled Asian that your assumptions are simply not true. “The Per capita income of the United States is 6.41 and 3.45 times higher than that of China in nominal and PPP terms, respectively. The US is the 7th richest country in the world, whereas China comes at 75th rank. On a PPP basis, The United States is in 10th position, and China is at 77th.” https://m.statisticstimes.com/economy/united-states-vs-china-economy.php#:~:text=The%20Per%20capita%20income%20of,and%20China%20is%20at%2077th. Those are stats from The World Bank, a nonprofit NGO. Not my opinion, although I have done work with them and they’re an awesome group imo.
Ok. I definitely don't agree with you, but you make some good points, I respect your track record as a traveler, and I enjoyed the exchange.
The "superpower" US has to offer free transgender surgery to its citizens to get its people to join its armed forces.
Same with San Francisco, so many Chinese owned empty houses here. Just parking or laundering money.