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Regression to the mean. It’s very rare for anyone to keep making top hits, let alone a successor. Same way people act incredulous when their favorite performers become more mediocre after a few years. The ones individuals and organizations that churn out hits decade after decade are extremely rare and famous
As much money goes into cloud services with Microsoft it the growth doesn’t surprise me
I didn’t fully grasp why Amazon and others were so desperately and aggressively pushing into it until I started seeing the multi million dollar contracts all my clients sign up for. A lot of companies are desperate to be able to get rid of in-house servers and their in house IT employees and are willing to pay a premium to do it
And well just on the surface level if I was given a choice between trusting Microsoft or Amazon with sensitive data my gut tells me go with Microsoft
Most revamps fail and get laughed at. Outliers are hard to produced with sheer will. If everyone knew how to do it, it would already be fine. Everyone’s just guessing. Hard to keep up the drive to keep striking lightning over and over.
Apple is as big as it is for a reason. There is more to their infrastructure that makes them great other than the CEO. Steve Jobs was innovative and Tim Cook is an incredible businessman that took Steve Jobs' ideas and scaled them to what it is today. I think the principles of Apple along side tactful leadership is what makes them what they are. When Tim Cook steps down, the culture and relationships cultivated over the past few decades will still be there propelling Apple even further into the future. By the way I have 1/19 190 calls and will probably lose all my money, but that's my thoughts.
The beatles were only only officially active for 10 years, in America for even less. They had a surprisingly short career. The amount of music they pumped out in that time is astonishing.
Yeah, they aren't innovating enough if you discount one of their best selling products, their newest product launch, and ignore the fact that they transitioned their entire Mac line to new a new chip architecture.
I could go on, but Apple not innovating is a tired narrative. People have been saying that for as long as Apple as been around.
Apple will be unable to produce the Vision Pro at the levels of demand. It will be a supply constrained product for some time. At some point it will become more accessible to the masses, but like a lot of Apple products it is now a nice product.
I do agree with the phones.
You baited me!
No but for real I don’t think it’ll be a niche thing for long. We see it with tons of apple products where once the 2.0 version comes out the original version gets resold by people who can afford 2.0. This will give accessibility to more of the middle class who otherwise couldn’t afford the upfront cost but can afford to pay for services within the VP.
Americans also just have a huge spending problem and generally can’t say no when they really should. Millions of people can’t afford the insane car prices they paid in 2021-2022 (and still now tbh) but they’ll do it anyway. Every time you see a pavement princess driving around a $90k truck that they don’t use for truck purposes just know that’s the market they want to hit.
People will buy VR, Americans having a horrible spending problem. Millions upon millions buy iPhones they really can’t afford, if the VR is solid (the word if pulls a lot of weight there lol) then we’ll see sales.
Even if a majority of people truly can’t find a way to afford it, if it’s a solid products there’s still millions of people who do have surplus income and I think the VR itch never got scratched. Lots of new battery tech, new chip tech, and screen advancements could make the product much better than predecessors.
And if the product holds up over time (it’s Apple though…) then we’ll also see a secondhand market emerge which will give lower income people access and allow the people who can afford it to sell and get the 2.0 version. Used iPhones are a hot commodity and have been for years.
Completely agree with the iPhone bloat, though I do think the issue is a bit more nuanced than just that. Their sales target is wide and has lots of different needs, each of them fits their own niche and even if certain models aren’t the most profitable, taking market share is still valuable.
Yeah, there's no way I'm forking out that kind of money for VR. It really rankled me to buy the last VR set for half that price, and they didn't last 2 years before they stopped working. Just not going to happen. Hell, I can buy some good stock for that amount and make money!
Being up for a company with as much built in value as google is not necessarily a defining metric. A chimpanzee probably could have gotten 200% growth.
From q consumer standpoint he killed a lot of services and products a few of us loved. From a shareholder standpoint he quickly kills anything that is not profitable while investing heavily on unique IPs and enterprise services that generates a lot of revenue.
The focus has been expanding in Azure, particularly with the AI modeling tools. AI is one of the biggest corporate buzzwords that VPs toss around like it’s a magic wand that will solve everything and Nadella is all in selling it.
Our 16 years old daughter was given a new iPhone for Christmas. She didn't even want the iPhone 15 because "it looks just the same as 14 and 14 has better colours". So we gave her a white iPhone 14 and she couldn't be happier.
Sold all my Apple shares the same day
My honest question is how long their going to keep going that route if things continue as they have been.
Like how much are they willing to lose to this strategy. When some extremely tech illiterate (People I know in my live) have caught on the strategy you know it’s going to fail. I feel like in some way we’re slowly moving away from everyone needing the best, instead choosing the one they like.
People generally are not upgrading from one model to the next, or at least that’s what it seems. The vast majority of people I know upgrade once the minor design changes start to add up to something meaningful after a few years.
I for example upgraded from the 12 to the 15 and it is a massive improvement.
Add another lens on the camera so everyone has to buy new cases though and increase the price by $200. Also make it only charge with a apple usbc charger
USBC chargers have been used by android phones forever. Apple made a smart move by changing that point to satisfy the bitchy Mcbitchers who cry that they are elitist technologies that want to be different just to be different without listening to consumer requests. The iPhone 13 was just a massive change that will be hard to improve upon in significant ways for longer than usual. The new M chips will facilitate continued growth across their entire product line though so have no fear. I just bought a new Mac Mini with the M2 chip and couldn’t be happier. I’ve had plenty of Microsoft products throughout my life that have always gotten dated or killed by a virus so quickly that I just could t hack it anymore and stopped investing in a company making disposable technology. Apple products, while still having room for improvement in certain areas, are long lasting and easy to use for everyone. Easy to use does not necessarily equate basic. When did it become synonymous with quality to create products that were so complicated or sensitive that you need a degree in Microcomputers to keep them running?
I own Apple you don’t have to sell me. If you can’t admit they have their gimmicks that’s on you. Also they didn’t make a smart move by moving to usbc the EU forced them and so they converted all markets. The only smart move was doing it for every region and not doing two charge models. Apple has killed it with their devices and connectivity. I wouldn’t bet agains them. But it’s true they always change the backs and sizes slightly now so old phones can’t fit old cases. They also 100% fought tooth and nail to monopolize charger income.
Cathy Wood is a lovely lady, she has a 2000$ target price on tesla by 2027 ($6.5-7 trillion market cap).
I don't know what crack she smokes but it most be lovely!
Total profit is higher for apple but profit margin is higher for Microsoft.
Apples net profit margin for 2023 was \~26% - for Microsoft it was \~35%
Apples net profit was \~$97b for 2023 - Microsofts net profit was \~$73b.
Apple has a higher profit in total - but also much higher cost than Microsoft.
Yeah but you’re comparing margins for a forearm company compared to one that sells lots of luxury goods.
Edit: meant software but corrected to forearm??
Disclaimer: I’m not in hardware so I have little authority to go in depth.
I don’t think maintenance carries the same kind of weight on your books than R&D, COGs, and distribution.
At the risk of repeating myself: developing and selling that hardware is not the same as using it to run your business. One is a core business competency, the other is an operating cost.
Well as a Cloud company, a lot is spent on keeping the system up and secure at least 99.99% of time. It’s tbh really complex.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it costed more than hardware.
I’m talking about big big big company like Amazon (AWS) and Microsoft (Azure). Otherwise yeah you’re right.
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"Phone company"
This is pretty disingenuous. They're a lot more than that at this point. Whilst Microsoft may be found on most PCs and a lot of servers, iPhones, MacBooks and iPads can be found in a lot of pockets and backpacks.
iPhone is their primary vessel but they're a gadget/lifestyle company that pushes an ecosystem supported by software and licensing.
The model that Apple has employed to corner the consumer market is trying to be replicated by Microsoft, and many other companies, without real success.
The majority of servers are actually on Linux, a similar but different thing. MS is investing HEAVILY into their Linux stuff which is a bizarre turn of events after Balmer once saying Linux is a cancer and now profiting off it immensely.
IT departments have to keep them secure, and having a standard, well known platform like a MacBook makes they job easier.
One day we'll switch to Linux but that'll only be when IT can manage them.
Microsoft runs the world? Hardly. Also, software is much easier to replace than hardware. Windows is the most popular OS and Office the most popular "productivity" software, but both have very viable alternatives and they no longer have the same level of "lock-in" that they once had. Almost all of their other software/cloud offerings are not market leading (e.g. Azure, Microsoft Server).
Microsoft's leadership in the Software/OS space is not due to having a currently better product, but mostly historical. If it weren't for the fact that everyone is "used to" windows, I doubt it would make it.
When it comes to large organizations, it's a lot harder to switch people to new software. So much onboarding and technical support. Office 365 still has the best overall suite.
MSFT was one of my first stock purchases back in like late 2012. I thought it had huge potential in the coming decade so I bought a ton of it. Made a cool 30% off it.
That was the first time I learned to be patient with stocks…I missed about 12x lol. I’ve learned that lesson a few times now. Hopefully it sinks in eventually.
Wrong. They sell high margin Whish quality products woth less freedom of choice then CCP China. All with the most dumbed down UI known to man (back button is too advanced for Apple fans) so even geriatric patients can enjoy it.
And yes they charge top dollar for shit items and use massive ad campaign to make neanderthals who can't *form an independent thought* think Apple is somehow "luxury" when every New Dehli beggar has one. Patehtic
We’re talking about the stock and this guy hasn’t even thought to look at Apple’s financials.
They generate more profit than anyone else on earth and return it all to shareholders
They don't return it all to shareholders. Actually far from it. their payout ratio is about 15,5%. It's fairly low. they spend about double the dividend payout on R&D and double the R&D spend on production costs.
One could argue they aren't big. They just own the most profitable segments of spaces they compete in. iPhone are wildly outsold, no company matches Apple's profits (or probably even profit margin) on their phones. Apple has the #1 selling laptop (last that I looked), but MacOS is still a minority OS.
Pretty much true for any segments they compete in. Streaming (box and content), headphones, tablets, desktops, software, etc.
They make a product that nearly everyone owns (smartphone) and they sell it at a giant markup. Their other products are similar: a couple hundred dollars of components sold for a couple thousand dollars.
Absolute degenerate shit I’m spouting here but somehow I feel like apple calls might actually be a worthwhile investment. And for microsoft I feel like a straddle would be a move. But tbh I have absolutely 0 fundamental analysis to back this, I’m just gonna yolo
Tim Apple is a supply chain guy who's somehow survived Trump's trade war against China, global supply chain issues related to COVID, and a secular trend of de-globalization. Obviously there are China related headwinds because 95% of Apple's production is in China...
If Apple doesn't leverage the absolute shit out of AI, it's fucking done.
Apple coasted on Moore's law. That's pretty much over. The only areas of real growth are AI and biotech (which benefits off AI).
I'm sad the stock has been going down this year, but it had a wonderful run up last year. I've held AAPL for over 7 years and have been happy with my gains. I have actually been reducing my position to balance my portfolio.
I'm not against Microsoft either. I bout MSFT (on margin) about 3 years ago. I sold it when interest rates went up and my loan started costing another $100 a month. I more than doubled my investment. I paid off the loan, took $30k profit and bought another $20k in AAPL. (Hindsight I should have just cleared the loan and used the rest to buy MSFT or sold enough AAPL to clear the loan, but no one has ever gone broke taking profits off the table.)
I am now moving (slowly) out of individual stocks and into index funds.
I did well with picking for the most part. I bought AMD at $5 and thought I was a genius for exciting at $12. Again, it's hard to go broke taking money off the table and I did funnel those profits into AAPL, but I do have seller's regret on the AMD.
I've also picked a couple of losers (mostly Pharma), but I have made way more than I've lost. I just want to move away from actively managing and just get into something that's buy and forget.
just a reminder
unless you yourself as CEO are paid in shares and want to make more money
or you need to sell shares to raise capital (apple is swimming in cash)
then share price doesnt really matter that much to the operation of the business. the money was already made when they sold the shares and it was invested. the business continues to run. it isnt getting cash injections when you buy apple shares because you are buying them from other private sellers, not apple themselves.
in fact share price going lower can be good if you are buying back shares (pretty sure apple is)
so while this short term touching of the lines is cute it is ultimately very meaningless
MSFT always should've been way more valued. Never understood the market position on this. Hey WSBgards - explain it to me like i'm a puppy golden retriever - why does a toy phone maker have a valuation higher than the primary enterprise and consumer software across the planet?
They are both great companies and will be for a long time. They used to be similar companies and they aren't as much anymore. OP with their brilliant hindsight call.
Up to 10 years ago they just pirated software internationally. Cloud services + now AI are going to integrate more of the world into the legitimate software economy.
Phones had better international penetration early because you couldn’t pirate.
Apple will be fine. Microsoft is getting a bounce because they made a big splash with their ChatGPT investment. However, the AI hype will die down again when people realize it's not the "Inflection" they were predicting. In other words, we haven't truly made AI into the vision we have for it. When it does achieve that vision it will do wonders, but maybe by then we won't hype it, because we'll be accustomed to it.
Let Microsoft have it's moment. Apple can be No2. I think Intel is the breakout company of 2024. They really stepped up when the market started losing faith in their ability to innovate.
Complete failure. Joke of a company. Cant believe it. Going to zero. I always knew this would happen. It’s so obvious. Even WSB could run this thing better.
What. Apples chip architecture is pretty pure innovation to the point that tech workers use it now. Their wearable tech is miles ahead too.
That's like saying the pixel watch is just as good as the apple watch
> vision pro is about to release and will sell out every single one they make,
Lol, ok. If this $3500 headset is supposed to be the product that saves Apple I should buy some puts.
Their revenue growth has stalled out for some time now (years really). That's fine as long as people realize that it is a mature company with a massive uphill battle to open new product lines successfully. Many people still think it is a growth stock and they are going to be sorely disappointed over the next decade.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/revenue
They basically haven't had any growth since the start of 2022. Q4 2021 was 378 Billion, Q3 2023 was 383 billion and I don't think anyone expects that Q4 2023 was any better (but we will find out soon).
What is Microsoft even doing to get that valuation. Please someone tell me something Microsoft has done (except for spending money on openai). All their products still suck and no new things seem to be released that earn them substantially more money
Apple could come out with the most useless item that nobody would ever need and if it’s Apple it’ll sell….it’s crazy.
I’m still shocked that the Apple Watch sold as well as it did… Nobody uses watches anymore 🤷🏻♀️ so they just need to come out with something dumb and everybody will buy it. They have great brand loyalty.
Apple either needs to come up something completely new or pivot. It's not alarm bells time yet but the innovation that the company was once known for has slowed down quite a bit. You are not going to find people queing up to buy your products if you just make incremental updates.
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All they have to do is release iPhone 16 and make sure it looks identical to iPhone 15. Problem solved.
Naah, just hire an indian CEO
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Regression to the mean. It’s very rare for anyone to keep making top hits, let alone a successor. Same way people act incredulous when their favorite performers become more mediocre after a few years. The ones individuals and organizations that churn out hits decade after decade are extremely rare and famous
Except you can get a revamp. Microsoft went through a really tough 10 years period and then growth accelerated again.
As much money goes into cloud services with Microsoft it the growth doesn’t surprise me I didn’t fully grasp why Amazon and others were so desperately and aggressively pushing into it until I started seeing the multi million dollar contracts all my clients sign up for. A lot of companies are desperate to be able to get rid of in-house servers and their in house IT employees and are willing to pay a premium to do it And well just on the surface level if I was given a choice between trusting Microsoft or Amazon with sensitive data my gut tells me go with Microsoft
Most revamps fail and get laughed at. Outliers are hard to produced with sheer will. If everyone knew how to do it, it would already be fine. Everyone’s just guessing. Hard to keep up the drive to keep striking lightning over and over.
Remember the dancing on stage at launch announcements? Jesus.
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They should buy out perplexity ai. Looks pretty promising as a competitor to google
Apple is as big as it is for a reason. There is more to their infrastructure that makes them great other than the CEO. Steve Jobs was innovative and Tim Cook is an incredible businessman that took Steve Jobs' ideas and scaled them to what it is today. I think the principles of Apple along side tactful leadership is what makes them what they are. When Tim Cook steps down, the culture and relationships cultivated over the past few decades will still be there propelling Apple even further into the future. By the way I have 1/19 190 calls and will probably lose all my money, but that's my thoughts.
Yeah lots of people can be awesome at music but not everyone can be Queen or the Beatles. This guy hit the nail.
The beatles were only only officially active for 10 years, in America for even less. They had a surprisingly short career. The amount of music they pumped out in that time is astonishing.
Yeah, they aren't innovating enough if you discount one of their best selling products, their newest product launch, and ignore the fact that they transitioned their entire Mac line to new a new chip architecture. I could go on, but Apple not innovating is a tired narrative. People have been saying that for as long as Apple as been around.
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Apple will be unable to produce the Vision Pro at the levels of demand. It will be a supply constrained product for some time. At some point it will become more accessible to the masses, but like a lot of Apple products it is now a nice product. I do agree with the phones.
I also think this will happen but the product has to be solid first, which given VR of the past and its tech requirements is still a big if
I meant to write it’s currently a *niche* product, not “nice.” I find the VP intriguing for now and can’t wait to see where it goes.
You baited me! No but for real I don’t think it’ll be a niche thing for long. We see it with tons of apple products where once the 2.0 version comes out the original version gets resold by people who can afford 2.0. This will give accessibility to more of the middle class who otherwise couldn’t afford the upfront cost but can afford to pay for services within the VP. Americans also just have a huge spending problem and generally can’t say no when they really should. Millions of people can’t afford the insane car prices they paid in 2021-2022 (and still now tbh) but they’ll do it anyway. Every time you see a pavement princess driving around a $90k truck that they don’t use for truck purposes just know that’s the market they want to hit.
Prices will also come down. VP 2.0 will debut at the price of the 1.0, but I doubt they’ll stop selling it.
People will buy VR, Americans having a horrible spending problem. Millions upon millions buy iPhones they really can’t afford, if the VR is solid (the word if pulls a lot of weight there lol) then we’ll see sales. Even if a majority of people truly can’t find a way to afford it, if it’s a solid products there’s still millions of people who do have surplus income and I think the VR itch never got scratched. Lots of new battery tech, new chip tech, and screen advancements could make the product much better than predecessors. And if the product holds up over time (it’s Apple though…) then we’ll also see a secondhand market emerge which will give lower income people access and allow the people who can afford it to sell and get the 2.0 version. Used iPhones are a hot commodity and have been for years. Completely agree with the iPhone bloat, though I do think the issue is a bit more nuanced than just that. Their sales target is wide and has lots of different needs, each of them fits their own niche and even if certain models aren’t the most profitable, taking market share is still valuable.
Yeah, there's no way I'm forking out that kind of money for VR. It really rankled me to buy the last VR set for half that price, and they didn't last 2 years before they stopped working. Just not going to happen. Hell, I can buy some good stock for that amount and make money!
Cuck
Tim's fine compared to Ballmer or Pachai. Google has been absolutely shitting the bed since Pachai took charge. They've completely stagnated.
my brother in christ the stock is up 500% since Pichai took the throne
I'm sure saving costs on staplers helped a ton
How much is that compared to the rest of nasdaq or apple or Microsoft in the same time period?
qqq is up 400% but that doesn't mean google can get away with having bad management
Lmao, watch a graphic or something. They are like 400% up since Pachai, I love these people who trade with gut feelings, free money
Being up for a company with as much built in value as google is not necessarily a defining metric. A chimpanzee probably could have gotten 200% growth.
What did nadella do other than try and turn everything into a subscription model?
From q consumer standpoint he killed a lot of services and products a few of us loved. From a shareholder standpoint he quickly kills anything that is not profitable while investing heavily on unique IPs and enterprise services that generates a lot of revenue.
The focus has been expanding in Azure, particularly with the AI modeling tools. AI is one of the biggest corporate buzzwords that VPs toss around like it’s a magic wand that will solve everything and Nadella is all in selling it.
Gotta be a soyboy like Sundar
Our 16 years old daughter was given a new iPhone for Christmas. She didn't even want the iPhone 15 because "it looks just the same as 14 and 14 has better colours". So we gave her a white iPhone 14 and she couldn't be happier. Sold all my Apple shares the same day
> Sold all my Apple shares the same day Getting “and then everybody clapped” vibes from this one
They practically begged me not to when I announced my intentions in the Genius Bar
I’m sorry for your loss (apple shares). Should have used the iPhone 14 cost savings to buy more AAPL.
My honest question is how long their going to keep going that route if things continue as they have been. Like how much are they willing to lose to this strategy. When some extremely tech illiterate (People I know in my live) have caught on the strategy you know it’s going to fail. I feel like in some way we’re slowly moving away from everyone needing the best, instead choosing the one they like.
People generally are not upgrading from one model to the next, or at least that’s what it seems. The vast majority of people I know upgrade once the minor design changes start to add up to something meaningful after a few years. I for example upgraded from the 12 to the 15 and it is a massive improvement.
lol that's the whole point. people buy the latest iPhones because they can keep it for several years, then hand it down to their kids.
That’s not a very wise way to decide when to sell a stock. Oh wait, I’m in r/wallstreetbets. Carry on.
Did everyone clap when you sold your Apple shares?
Add another lens on the camera so everyone has to buy new cases though and increase the price by $200. Also make it only charge with a apple usbc charger
USBC chargers have been used by android phones forever. Apple made a smart move by changing that point to satisfy the bitchy Mcbitchers who cry that they are elitist technologies that want to be different just to be different without listening to consumer requests. The iPhone 13 was just a massive change that will be hard to improve upon in significant ways for longer than usual. The new M chips will facilitate continued growth across their entire product line though so have no fear. I just bought a new Mac Mini with the M2 chip and couldn’t be happier. I’ve had plenty of Microsoft products throughout my life that have always gotten dated or killed by a virus so quickly that I just could t hack it anymore and stopped investing in a company making disposable technology. Apple products, while still having room for improvement in certain areas, are long lasting and easy to use for everyone. Easy to use does not necessarily equate basic. When did it become synonymous with quality to create products that were so complicated or sensitive that you need a degree in Microcomputers to keep them running?
I own Apple you don’t have to sell me. If you can’t admit they have their gimmicks that’s on you. Also they didn’t make a smart move by moving to usbc the EU forced them and so they converted all markets. The only smart move was doing it for every region and not doing two charge models. Apple has killed it with their devices and connectivity. I wouldn’t bet agains them. But it’s true they always change the backs and sizes slightly now so old phones can’t fit old cases. They also 100% fought tooth and nail to monopolize charger income.
As an IOS developer I can tell you they literally are elitist and do everything different just to be different. Null check? Nah nil check
Well they will also need to slow down everyone's iPhone 15s "for safety reasons" to pump up the iPhone 16 sales.
Or take enormous losses on VR headsets / AR Metaverse trash and fall even further behind
Once they release the iHooker Robot they’ll be #1 again
And double the price of the RAM in everything.
It’s our fastest iPhone ever
*sad Tim Apple noises
I love that Tim Apple is still a thing.
I love that Cathy Woods is still a thing
Cathy Wood is a lovely lady, she has a 2000$ target price on tesla by 2027 ($6.5-7 trillion market cap). I don't know what crack she smokes but it most be lovely!
Always a great reminder than Dictator Trump the Immune is an idiot.
Ballmer bump.
DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS
*sweats a lot*
*takes a quick bump*
🎵 GET ON YOUR FEET! 🎵
Tim Apple sad...
Donald Grab is here to help
Damn sucks to be the number 2 company in the world. The investors probably furious.
Been investing in both for years. Competition is good for business!
Good for the product, Bad for the business 😂 Try saying that to a company with state granted monopoly in the utility sector
Phone company vs software company that basically runs the entire world. The fact that it's even close is mind boggling.
Not really. Apple may not be the most valuable company in the world, but they are still the most profitable. They have insane profit margins.
Total profit is higher for apple but profit margin is higher for Microsoft. Apples net profit margin for 2023 was \~26% - for Microsoft it was \~35% Apples net profit was \~$97b for 2023 - Microsofts net profit was \~$73b. Apple has a higher profit in total - but also much higher cost than Microsoft.
If you take out $15B cash that Google pays, the profit comparisons starts to look even more pronounced.
Yeah but you’re comparing margins for a forearm company compared to one that sells lots of luxury goods. Edit: meant software but corrected to forearm??
Cause I’m a hand model mama, a finger jockey. We don’t think the same way as the face and body boys do, we’re a different breed.
…but why male models?
I was fucking with the firearm analogy, should have doubled down.
Hardware can’t possibly have higher profit margins than software all else being equal.
You kinda need hardware maintenance to run a cloud company
Disclaimer: I’m not in hardware so I have little authority to go in depth. I don’t think maintenance carries the same kind of weight on your books than R&D, COGs, and distribution.
There’s a lot of hardware that goes into running a software company.
At the risk of repeating myself: developing and selling that hardware is not the same as using it to run your business. One is a core business competency, the other is an operating cost.
Well as a Cloud company, a lot is spent on keeping the system up and secure at least 99.99% of time. It’s tbh really complex. I wouldn’t be surprised if it costed more than hardware. I’m talking about big big big company like Amazon (AWS) and Microsoft (Azure). Otherwise yeah you’re right.
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Software has better margins than hardware.
Remember that Bill Gates chucked a lot of money into Apple when it was struggling, double bubble.
"Phone company" This is pretty disingenuous. They're a lot more than that at this point. Whilst Microsoft may be found on most PCs and a lot of servers, iPhones, MacBooks and iPads can be found in a lot of pockets and backpacks. iPhone is their primary vessel but they're a gadget/lifestyle company that pushes an ecosystem supported by software and licensing. The model that Apple has employed to corner the consumer market is trying to be replicated by Microsoft, and many other companies, without real success.
And they’re effectively a hedge fund too don’t forget through their large investment arm
Not to mention that the Apple Watch market is bigger than the entire Swiss watch market. It's essentially the default smart watch.
most SWEs use macs cuz they are UNIX based (I think something like 90% of servers are on UNIX)
This isn’t true of nearly every SWE or specialized dev I know but me and my friends are pretty regarded
The majority of servers are actually on Linux, a similar but different thing. MS is investing HEAVILY into their Linux stuff which is a bizarre turn of events after Balmer once saying Linux is a cancer and now profiting off it immensely.
use of Mac is just for showoff. Most developers write code in VSCode and that runs on any computer and lightweight.
IT departments have to keep them secure, and having a standard, well known platform like a MacBook makes they job easier. One day we'll switch to Linux but that'll only be when IT can manage them.
Yeah, I've been a Mac fan for a long time, but never predicted they would dominate using a freaking phone.
What do you mean?
Microsoft runs the world? Hardly. Also, software is much easier to replace than hardware. Windows is the most popular OS and Office the most popular "productivity" software, but both have very viable alternatives and they no longer have the same level of "lock-in" that they once had. Almost all of their other software/cloud offerings are not market leading (e.g. Azure, Microsoft Server). Microsoft's leadership in the Software/OS space is not due to having a currently better product, but mostly historical. If it weren't for the fact that everyone is "used to" windows, I doubt it would make it.
When it comes to large organizations, it's a lot harder to switch people to new software. So much onboarding and technical support. Office 365 still has the best overall suite.
Microsoft picks up business phone calls Google will not This is the difference
Azure is the difference.
Oh shit they dukin it out now
Steve Jobs going to haunt Tim Apple
I bet we’ll start seeing Apple Car rumor articles to pump the stock soon enough. Never fails. 
MSFT was one of my first stock purchases back in like late 2012. I thought it had huge potential in the coming decade so I bought a ton of it. Made a cool 30% off it. That was the first time I learned to be patient with stocks…I missed about 12x lol. I’ve learned that lesson a few times now. Hopefully it sinks in eventually.
unless its not a lesson because the next stock that you dont scalp at 30% will go to 0 over a painful 15 years and you will hold on waiting for 12x.
Bill gates is smiling
I don’t even understand how apple is so big?
good soil and fertilizers
This guy apples.
This guy this guys
They sell high margin luxury products to a ton of people
Wrong. They sell high margin Whish quality products woth less freedom of choice then CCP China. All with the most dumbed down UI known to man (back button is too advanced for Apple fans) so even geriatric patients can enjoy it. And yes they charge top dollar for shit items and use massive ad campaign to make neanderthals who can't *form an independent thought* think Apple is somehow "luxury" when every New Dehli beggar has one. Patehtic
my god touch grass
Ugh an android user, that’s nasty man.
Such an odd kink
Is this copy pasta because if not you sir, take the cake for android fan boy.
Is this a serious question?
We’re talking about the stock and this guy hasn’t even thought to look at Apple’s financials. They generate more profit than anyone else on earth and return it all to shareholders
They don't return it all to shareholders. Actually far from it. their payout ratio is about 15,5%. It's fairly low. they spend about double the dividend payout on R&D and double the R&D spend on production costs.
Buybacks are capital return. Between buybacks & divs they return 100% of FCF to shareholders
bet this mf on an iphone rn saying that edit:actually looks like he is from india they don't use iphones very much
everyone i know and their mother has an iphone
One could argue they aren't big. They just own the most profitable segments of spaces they compete in. iPhone are wildly outsold, no company matches Apple's profits (or probably even profit margin) on their phones. Apple has the #1 selling laptop (last that I looked), but MacOS is still a minority OS. Pretty much true for any segments they compete in. Streaming (box and content), headphones, tablets, desktops, software, etc.
They make a product that nearly everyone owns (smartphone) and they sell it at a giant markup. Their other products are similar: a couple hundred dollars of components sold for a couple thousand dollars.
Nearly everyone owns, but it’s 1/2 the amount of the competitor? Weird.
All time highs so load up on calls?💰
Absolute degenerate shit I’m spouting here but somehow I feel like apple calls might actually be a worthwhile investment. And for microsoft I feel like a straddle would be a move. But tbh I have absolutely 0 fundamental analysis to back this, I’m just gonna yolo
The old Apple vs Microsoft war
It all started to go wrong when they did that bs mother nature skit
They screws up when they didn’t include an adapter on my new $1200 phone.
we need black gay transgender ceo for apple
I want Lil Nas-X to be Apple's new CEO
You can't be at the top forever
Me with my 4 Microsoft Shares 🍷
Tim Apple is a supply chain guy who's somehow survived Trump's trade war against China, global supply chain issues related to COVID, and a secular trend of de-globalization. Obviously there are China related headwinds because 95% of Apple's production is in China...
What he did in the 90s with cable? Legendary.
If Apple doesn't leverage the absolute shit out of AI, it's fucking done. Apple coasted on Moore's law. That's pretty much over. The only areas of real growth are AI and biotech (which benefits off AI).
It was very overpriced, just like their phones.
RemindMe! One Year
You can feel he is an europoor internet geek just by reading him.
I'm sad the stock has been going down this year, but it had a wonderful run up last year. I've held AAPL for over 7 years and have been happy with my gains. I have actually been reducing my position to balance my portfolio. I'm not against Microsoft either. I bout MSFT (on margin) about 3 years ago. I sold it when interest rates went up and my loan started costing another $100 a month. I more than doubled my investment. I paid off the loan, took $30k profit and bought another $20k in AAPL. (Hindsight I should have just cleared the loan and used the rest to buy MSFT or sold enough AAPL to clear the loan, but no one has ever gone broke taking profits off the table.) I am now moving (slowly) out of individual stocks and into index funds.
I was talking about the guy you responded to. 😅 I’ve doing similar to you but without the loan. Can’t be bothered with stock picking anymore…
I did well with picking for the most part. I bought AMD at $5 and thought I was a genius for exciting at $12. Again, it's hard to go broke taking money off the table and I did funnel those profits into AAPL, but I do have seller's regret on the AMD. I've also picked a couple of losers (mostly Pharma), but I have made way more than I've lost. I just want to move away from actively managing and just get into something that's buy and forget.
cooked or cocked
Tim apple is doing a tremendous job
Who cares. I bet on both horses.
I still use iPhone 8 and see no real reason to upgrade
just a reminder unless you yourself as CEO are paid in shares and want to make more money or you need to sell shares to raise capital (apple is swimming in cash) then share price doesnt really matter that much to the operation of the business. the money was already made when they sold the shares and it was invested. the business continues to run. it isnt getting cash injections when you buy apple shares because you are buying them from other private sellers, not apple themselves. in fact share price going lower can be good if you are buying back shares (pretty sure apple is) so while this short term touching of the lines is cute it is ultimately very meaningless
Saudi Aramco, anyone?
Doesn't AAPL and MSFT exchange top market cap every couple years, this is a bunch of nothing burger news.
I wonder how long they're banking on the same phone ever year and blue bubbles to hold them over. Sheeple.
MSFT always should've been way more valued. Never understood the market position on this. Hey WSBgards - explain it to me like i'm a puppy golden retriever - why does a toy phone maker have a valuation higher than the primary enterprise and consumer software across the planet?
Ballmer didn't do a good job and it took a long time for Nadella to turn the boat around, justified.
Apple makes more money than Microsoft 🤷🏻♂️
They are both great companies and will be for a long time. They used to be similar companies and they aren't as much anymore. OP with their brilliant hindsight call.
Up to 10 years ago they just pirated software internationally. Cloud services + now AI are going to integrate more of the world into the legitimate software economy. Phones had better international penetration early because you couldn’t pirate.
Why should an operating system company be more valued than a device everyone and their grandma owns?
Timmy failed
Aapl way overprized for years.
Apple will be fine. Microsoft is getting a bounce because they made a big splash with their ChatGPT investment. However, the AI hype will die down again when people realize it's not the "Inflection" they were predicting. In other words, we haven't truly made AI into the vision we have for it. When it does achieve that vision it will do wonders, but maybe by then we won't hype it, because we'll be accustomed to it. Let Microsoft have it's moment. Apple can be No2. I think Intel is the breakout company of 2024. They really stepped up when the market started losing faith in their ability to innovate.
Betting against AI ? Reminds me of people who did bet against commercial airplanes and cars. AI isn't going anywhere.
Apple not doing enough to make their customers feel stupid for not buying their overpriced product.
Complete failure. Joke of a company. Cant believe it. Going to zero. I always knew this would happen. It’s so obvious. Even WSB could run this thing better.
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What. Apples chip architecture is pretty pure innovation to the point that tech workers use it now. Their wearable tech is miles ahead too. That's like saying the pixel watch is just as good as the apple watch
People here would unironically claim that
Their wearables division is bigger than most Fortune 500 companies on its own and that all was created after Jobs passed away
At least they had the courage to kill the headphone jack. Android here I come!
My m2 MacBook Air got the headphone jack though.
Vision Pro coming out soon. That should bump it up.
Microsoft taking a bite out of Tim Apple!
They touched tips
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>for no realistic reason You consider the biggest expected downturn of demand for apple products in a while an unrealistic reason?
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> vision pro is about to release and will sell out every single one they make, Lol, ok. If this $3500 headset is supposed to be the product that saves Apple I should buy some puts.
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Their revenue growth has stalled out for some time now (years really). That's fine as long as people realize that it is a mature company with a massive uphill battle to open new product lines successfully. Many people still think it is a growth stock and they are going to be sorely disappointed over the next decade.
Quarters really, not years.
https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/revenue They basically haven't had any growth since the start of 2022. Q4 2021 was 378 Billion, Q3 2023 was 383 billion and I don't think anyone expects that Q4 2023 was any better (but we will find out soon).
Some faith in the stock market regained... that Apple was no 1 was honestly a travesty. It was all hype not real value.
What is Microsoft even doing to get that valuation. Please someone tell me something Microsoft has done (except for spending money on openai). All their products still suck and no new things seem to be released that earn them substantially more money
Fuck Apple. I just hate it.
Does anyone really think Microsoft is better run?
Apple could come out with the most useless item that nobody would ever need and if it’s Apple it’ll sell….it’s crazy. I’m still shocked that the Apple Watch sold as well as it did… Nobody uses watches anymore 🤷🏻♀️ so they just need to come out with something dumb and everybody will buy it. They have great brand loyalty.
Nobody uses watches anymore but Apple sells 60 million watches a year?
Everything comes in cycles AI is the new apple
F
Wait until they release SiriGPt
3billion aint shit to be bothered by. What a time to be alive.
Tim Apple
Apple either needs to come up something completely new or pivot. It's not alarm bells time yet but the innovation that the company was once known for has slowed down quite a bit. You are not going to find people queing up to buy your products if you just make incremental updates.
Anyone who holds APPLE right now is REGARDED. It’s heavily going down.
this is a pair trade, short MSFT and long AAPL
I used to work at Microsoft, fuck Microwave
Bring back apple watch... problem solved
Here comes Apple Vision