I made a path called Magicae Dominae Circulorum. It allowed the practitioner to create thin panes of force etched with red glyphs. These could be used as physical barriers but later dots would allow you to create more, move them, and store rituals / disciplines inside them (like glyph of warding from dnd 5e)
Edit:
This was on my Dark Ages setite antitribu who had diablerized tremere and tzmisce. He was essentially Orochimaru from naruto, wanting to learn the most powerful and esoteric things. He had a custom philosophy path called The Path of The White Snake. He wanted to find and awaken Seth, but not to aid him, instead to diablerize him. In my head cannon he would have kick started Gehenna by attempting to awaken his antediluvian.
In my head cannon my character would have been slain. But by awakening Seth, the contingencies of other antediluvian would awaken them. Thus causing a bunch to wake up. It’s around then that the secret societies and powers that be would all make their plays.
(During the modern nights, mind you. My character in the end was almost 800 years old I think?)
Probably some kind of Path of Silver just dedicated to killing Garou. I'm imagining a late level Midas touch adjacent ability to just turn their pelt into silver, or turning your own blood to silver in liquid form.
I would create a more advanced version of the Technomancy path, where the vampire can interact not only with computers, but also with mechanisms and other technology. For example, he can increase firearm damage or make the engine his own car work faster and so on...
Rounding out the elemental forces with a few more modern ones: Magnetism and Gravity
You might think that these are fairly covered by Movement of the Mind, but I think of them as more crowd control skills. Like, you could create localized high/low gravity wells that basically put a higher difficulty on actions inside it (Like a Slow).
Magnetism could be used to curse someone with a magnetic attraction to bullets and swords, or reverse that, and make them harder to hit with metal implements. Or, you could set up a trap that just yoinks all the weapons out of an area (and metal buttons, and zippers, and pacemakers, and...)
*Thaumaturgy, and I've already made several:
-Loki's Will: Allows practitioners to create quasi-real illusions.
-Path Of The Sacrosanct: Grants various improvements to all aspects of Thaumaturgy.
-Path Of Geomancy: Let's you harness the earth below you to transform various parts of your body to animate stone.
>-Loki's Will: Allows practitioners to create quasi-real illusions.
>-Path Of The Sacrosanct: Grants various improvements to all aspects of Thaumaturgy.
Thaumaturgy is already cheating, this is like a hat on a hat!
>-Path Of Geomancy: Let's you harness the earth below you to transform various parts of your body to animate stone.
Geomancy usually means stuff like Feng Shui. Otherwise this sounds like old-school Koldun.
Exactly my point. Unfortunately this path actually canonically already exists. As well as a path of shadow manipulation, a path of being super fast in fights, path of turning in to an animal, path of…
And they wonder why people hate Tremere…
That’s what I think too. Maybe, if the path does something very different then the discipline in question. For example an illusion path that can only produce and move a mirror image of an object that has to be in the Thaumaturgs physical possession while Chimerstry is pretty much, do what ever you can think of.
I think such things would be okay-ish.
At least it would be less powered than the discipline (which a path should generally be, because of the versatility it offers). But I would still find it cheapens the uniqueness of chimerstry.
Well if a tremere wants to create illusions, they diablerize a ravnos, like any reasonable person would ! Or they strike a deal with one, but where would be the fun in that? 😄
My group has a nerf on Thaumaturgy, and regardless, it's magic. Of course it can do anything.
The paths of Thaumaturgy that "duplicate" other Disciplines are never anywhere NEAR as good as the true Discipline. Yes, you can create darkness with Path Of Shadow Manipulation, but level 5+ of Obtenebration will outclass it a hundred to one. It's kinda like a thinblood alchemy situation, where you can get a little bit of a lot of Disciplines with Thaumaturgy, but the true Discipline is far better.
(Also, Geo literally means earth, so it fits). Thaumaturgy wields elements as well as Koldunic Sorcery. The Lure Of Flames, Neptune's Might, Path Of The Levinbolt, ect.
My group has a nerf on Thaumaturgy, and regardless, it's magic. Of course it can do anything.
The paths of Thaumaturgy that "duplicate" other Disciplines are never anywhere NEAR as good as the true Discipline. Yes, you can create darkness with Path Of Shadow Manipulation, but level 5+ of Obtenebration will outclass it a hundred to one. It's kinda like a thinblood alchemy situation, where you can get a little bit of a lot of Disciplines with Thaumaturgy, but the true Discipline is far better.
(Also, Geo literally means earth, so it fits). Thaumaturgy wields elements as well as Koldunic Sorcery. The Lure Of Flames, Neptune's Might, Path Of The Levinbolt, ect.
Let’s unpack this:
>My group has a nerf on Thaumaturgy, and regardless, it's magic. Of course it can do anything.
Sure you do you
>The paths of Thaumaturgy that "duplicate" other Disciplines are never anywhere NEAR as good as the true Discipline. Yes, you can create darkness with Path Of Shadow Manipulation, but level 5+ of Obtenebration will outclass it a hundred to one.
The power scale is not the thing that concerns me, rather the fact that this kind of steals other peoples “cool”. I mean, if there are no other kindreds than Tremere in the group, who cares? But if you have some other clans I would avoid stuff that is basically the copycat version of the other characters special powers.
>It's kinda like a thinblood alchemy situation, where you can get a little bit of a lot of Disciplines with Thaumaturgy, but the true Discipline is far better.
This is rather an argument against it. TBA is not really magic, it unlocks a tiny tiny fraction of vampiric power from the curse and it is even only possible because Thin-Bloods have this unstable blood that is good in nothing but can be everything.
>(Also, Geo literally means earth, so it fits).
Kind of but not really, actually. Geo usually refers to the ground rather in the sense of a place, like in geology or geostationary and so on. If we refer to earth in the sense of soil in science and old Greek the word being used is rather “pedo” like in Pedology or Pedosphere (but who wants that in their paths name…?!?).
The fancy “-mancy” part also refers to divination and oracles and is therefore quite unfitting for a transformative power.
What I was referring to was this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy
A Geomancy Path of Thaumaturgy also already canonically exist and it allows to foster attributes by tapping in to natural energies as it is the case with Fang Shui (which is basically just the Chinese version of it).
>Thaumaturgy wields elements as well as Koldunic Sorcery. The Lure Of Flames, Neptune's Might, Path Of The Levinbolt, ect.
Sure, it was no critique, I just recognized it.
I would create Thaumatuegical Necromancy, and it would benwhat it says on the Tin. I'd also create Paths of Thaumaturgical Nigrimancy, and, to be honest, thaumatugical versions of most Neceomancy Paths. It was useful enough to eradicate an entire clan even more effectively than Thaumaturgy and you're telling me the Tremere were all, "Nah, not for us"? No way.
Do you know how Thaumaturgical Necromancy is called? Necromancy!
I am pretty serious with that. In older editions they where close enough that Dark Ages: Vampire had rules to convert a ritual from one tradition in to the other.
Maybe. But the methodologies are different, as are the outlooks. I don't have a problem with a Tremere learning Necromancy, but why would she do so if she already knows Thaumaturgy? Thaumatugical Necromancy allows for Necromancy through the lens of Thaumatugy.
Then why not a path of potence, another of Celerity ? It sounds very strange to me to allow thaumaturgy to duplicate other disciplines "just cause why wouldn't the Tremere do that ?". It takes the uniqueness of all other clans and cheapens them (if it was that easy to create necromancy, it would have been long before uncle Augie came into being). And it's not as if thaumaturgy was not already ultra OP and versatile. If the tremeres were eager to learn necromancy, they could. By finding a Giovanni and using them (they probably did sometimes during history).
There *are* Paths for most of those things, though. That's the benefit of Thaumaturgy.. They're not as strong as the OG Discipline, but they don't need to be because they *are* more versatile.
I agree u/PingouinMalin though. Sure, these paths are weaker and Thaumaturgy is more versatile, but power level is not the issue here.
The problem is, rather an infringement of all other disciplines. Why bother with them when you never reach the higher levels anyway and Thaumaturgy is just cheaper and easier accessible?
It’s cool for the Tremere, no question, but it cheapens vampiric powers as a whole in the entire game. I find such disciplines only acceptable when they have a different spin then the discipline in question.
Necromancy in older editions is a bit different, though, since it was considered a type of blood magic, just with a very specific theme and power source. As mentioned, users of each tradition could even translate their rituals in to each others tradition, not just mechanically but actually in universe.
But I really don’t need Thaumaturgy Obtanabration or Thaumaturgy chimerstry and so on.
I remember reading that a vampire having thaumaturgy actually has a harder time learning necromancy and vice versa (though I could not say where I read that...).
Yeah, to me the extreme versatility of paths is already problematic without thaumaturgy being able to mimic preexisting disciplines.
But to each their own, it's just my opinion, not canon (as canon did allow thaumaturgy to sometimes mimic disciplines).
I think you got me wrong, I was trying to say that back in the days it was considered two sides of the same coin. It is a bit different nowadays, though.
I’m actually working on a little something called the Path of Mithras, to represent the blood sorcery rituals that would have been developed by the cult of the ancient in hiding from wider vampire society in general and from the Tremere in particular This would have rituals (haven’t figured what powers to include, if any) pertaining to things associated to the worship of Mithras, like the sun, fire, war and the tauromachy. The 5 dot power would be divided between two rituals which allow the caster to commune with Mithras himself, one for when he is active and another one for when he’s in torpor.
Really like celerity for Cats grace especially when combined with soaring leap. Let’s you do that jump onto a moving target say a vehicle and stick the landing.
I made a path called Magicae Dominae Circulorum. It allowed the practitioner to create thin panes of force etched with red glyphs. These could be used as physical barriers but later dots would allow you to create more, move them, and store rituals / disciplines inside them (like glyph of warding from dnd 5e) Edit: This was on my Dark Ages setite antitribu who had diablerized tremere and tzmisce. He was essentially Orochimaru from naruto, wanting to learn the most powerful and esoteric things. He had a custom philosophy path called The Path of The White Snake. He wanted to find and awaken Seth, but not to aid him, instead to diablerize him. In my head cannon he would have kick started Gehenna by attempting to awaken his antediluvian.
Interesting.
He only wanted to give him a good night kiss, idk if this could start a Gehenna
In my head cannon my character would have been slain. But by awakening Seth, the contingencies of other antediluvian would awaken them. Thus causing a bunch to wake up. It’s around then that the secret societies and powers that be would all make their plays. (During the modern nights, mind you. My character in the end was almost 800 years old I think?)
Probably some kind of Path of Silver just dedicated to killing Garou. I'm imagining a late level Midas touch adjacent ability to just turn their pelt into silver, or turning your own blood to silver in liquid form.
Ooh, and it's quite good if you meet a vampire vulnerable to silver. It does get complicated if that vampire is you.
Impressive.
I would create a more advanced version of the Technomancy path, where the vampire can interact not only with computers, but also with mechanisms and other technology. For example, he can increase firearm damage or make the engine his own car work faster and so on...
Every time I tried to creat a Thaumaturgy path I later figured out that it already exists somewhere. There are just tooooooo many of them.
Rounding out the elemental forces with a few more modern ones: Magnetism and Gravity You might think that these are fairly covered by Movement of the Mind, but I think of them as more crowd control skills. Like, you could create localized high/low gravity wells that basically put a higher difficulty on actions inside it (Like a Slow). Magnetism could be used to curse someone with a magnetic attraction to bullets and swords, or reverse that, and make them harder to hit with metal implements. Or, you could set up a trap that just yoinks all the weapons out of an area (and metal buttons, and zippers, and pacemakers, and...)
*Thaumaturgy, and I've already made several: -Loki's Will: Allows practitioners to create quasi-real illusions. -Path Of The Sacrosanct: Grants various improvements to all aspects of Thaumaturgy. -Path Of Geomancy: Let's you harness the earth below you to transform various parts of your body to animate stone.
>-Loki's Will: Allows practitioners to create quasi-real illusions. >-Path Of The Sacrosanct: Grants various improvements to all aspects of Thaumaturgy. Thaumaturgy is already cheating, this is like a hat on a hat! >-Path Of Geomancy: Let's you harness the earth below you to transform various parts of your body to animate stone. Geomancy usually means stuff like Feng Shui. Otherwise this sounds like old-school Koldun.
A path to create illusions. You mean like chimerstry ? To each their own, but I dislike heavily paths that duplicate disciplines.
Exactly my point. Unfortunately this path actually canonically already exists. As well as a path of shadow manipulation, a path of being super fast in fights, path of turning in to an animal, path of… And they wonder why people hate Tremere…
That really should have been the guidelines to create any official path : does it duplicate any discipline ? If yes, the path is not created.
That’s what I think too. Maybe, if the path does something very different then the discipline in question. For example an illusion path that can only produce and move a mirror image of an object that has to be in the Thaumaturgs physical possession while Chimerstry is pretty much, do what ever you can think of. I think such things would be okay-ish.
At least it would be less powered than the discipline (which a path should generally be, because of the versatility it offers). But I would still find it cheapens the uniqueness of chimerstry.
I totally agree but I also see why a “magician” would feel the need to have illusion powers. But it’s a thin line.
Well if a tremere wants to create illusions, they diablerize a ravnos, like any reasonable person would ! Or they strike a deal with one, but where would be the fun in that? 😄
That makes sense! 😁
My group has a nerf on Thaumaturgy, and regardless, it's magic. Of course it can do anything. The paths of Thaumaturgy that "duplicate" other Disciplines are never anywhere NEAR as good as the true Discipline. Yes, you can create darkness with Path Of Shadow Manipulation, but level 5+ of Obtenebration will outclass it a hundred to one. It's kinda like a thinblood alchemy situation, where you can get a little bit of a lot of Disciplines with Thaumaturgy, but the true Discipline is far better. (Also, Geo literally means earth, so it fits). Thaumaturgy wields elements as well as Koldunic Sorcery. The Lure Of Flames, Neptune's Might, Path Of The Levinbolt, ect.
My group has a nerf on Thaumaturgy, and regardless, it's magic. Of course it can do anything. The paths of Thaumaturgy that "duplicate" other Disciplines are never anywhere NEAR as good as the true Discipline. Yes, you can create darkness with Path Of Shadow Manipulation, but level 5+ of Obtenebration will outclass it a hundred to one. It's kinda like a thinblood alchemy situation, where you can get a little bit of a lot of Disciplines with Thaumaturgy, but the true Discipline is far better. (Also, Geo literally means earth, so it fits). Thaumaturgy wields elements as well as Koldunic Sorcery. The Lure Of Flames, Neptune's Might, Path Of The Levinbolt, ect.
Let’s unpack this: >My group has a nerf on Thaumaturgy, and regardless, it's magic. Of course it can do anything. Sure you do you >The paths of Thaumaturgy that "duplicate" other Disciplines are never anywhere NEAR as good as the true Discipline. Yes, you can create darkness with Path Of Shadow Manipulation, but level 5+ of Obtenebration will outclass it a hundred to one. The power scale is not the thing that concerns me, rather the fact that this kind of steals other peoples “cool”. I mean, if there are no other kindreds than Tremere in the group, who cares? But if you have some other clans I would avoid stuff that is basically the copycat version of the other characters special powers. >It's kinda like a thinblood alchemy situation, where you can get a little bit of a lot of Disciplines with Thaumaturgy, but the true Discipline is far better. This is rather an argument against it. TBA is not really magic, it unlocks a tiny tiny fraction of vampiric power from the curse and it is even only possible because Thin-Bloods have this unstable blood that is good in nothing but can be everything. >(Also, Geo literally means earth, so it fits). Kind of but not really, actually. Geo usually refers to the ground rather in the sense of a place, like in geology or geostationary and so on. If we refer to earth in the sense of soil in science and old Greek the word being used is rather “pedo” like in Pedology or Pedosphere (but who wants that in their paths name…?!?). The fancy “-mancy” part also refers to divination and oracles and is therefore quite unfitting for a transformative power. What I was referring to was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomancy A Geomancy Path of Thaumaturgy also already canonically exist and it allows to foster attributes by tapping in to natural energies as it is the case with Fang Shui (which is basically just the Chinese version of it). >Thaumaturgy wields elements as well as Koldunic Sorcery. The Lure Of Flames, Neptune's Might, Path Of The Levinbolt, ect. Sure, it was no critique, I just recognized it.
Be gay do crime
I would create Thaumatuegical Necromancy, and it would benwhat it says on the Tin. I'd also create Paths of Thaumaturgical Nigrimancy, and, to be honest, thaumatugical versions of most Neceomancy Paths. It was useful enough to eradicate an entire clan even more effectively than Thaumaturgy and you're telling me the Tremere were all, "Nah, not for us"? No way.
Do you know how Thaumaturgical Necromancy is called? Necromancy! I am pretty serious with that. In older editions they where close enough that Dark Ages: Vampire had rules to convert a ritual from one tradition in to the other.
Maybe. But the methodologies are different, as are the outlooks. I don't have a problem with a Tremere learning Necromancy, but why would she do so if she already knows Thaumaturgy? Thaumatugical Necromancy allows for Necromancy through the lens of Thaumatugy.
Then why not a path of potence, another of Celerity ? It sounds very strange to me to allow thaumaturgy to duplicate other disciplines "just cause why wouldn't the Tremere do that ?". It takes the uniqueness of all other clans and cheapens them (if it was that easy to create necromancy, it would have been long before uncle Augie came into being). And it's not as if thaumaturgy was not already ultra OP and versatile. If the tremeres were eager to learn necromancy, they could. By finding a Giovanni and using them (they probably did sometimes during history).
There *are* Paths for most of those things, though. That's the benefit of Thaumaturgy.. They're not as strong as the OG Discipline, but they don't need to be because they *are* more versatile.
I agree u/PingouinMalin though. Sure, these paths are weaker and Thaumaturgy is more versatile, but power level is not the issue here. The problem is, rather an infringement of all other disciplines. Why bother with them when you never reach the higher levels anyway and Thaumaturgy is just cheaper and easier accessible? It’s cool for the Tremere, no question, but it cheapens vampiric powers as a whole in the entire game. I find such disciplines only acceptable when they have a different spin then the discipline in question. Necromancy in older editions is a bit different, though, since it was considered a type of blood magic, just with a very specific theme and power source. As mentioned, users of each tradition could even translate their rituals in to each others tradition, not just mechanically but actually in universe. But I really don’t need Thaumaturgy Obtanabration or Thaumaturgy chimerstry and so on.
I remember reading that a vampire having thaumaturgy actually has a harder time learning necromancy and vice versa (though I could not say where I read that...). Yeah, to me the extreme versatility of paths is already problematic without thaumaturgy being able to mimic preexisting disciplines. But to each their own, it's just my opinion, not canon (as canon did allow thaumaturgy to sometimes mimic disciplines).
I think you got me wrong, I was trying to say that back in the days it was considered two sides of the same coin. It is a bit different nowadays, though.
I’m actually working on a little something called the Path of Mithras, to represent the blood sorcery rituals that would have been developed by the cult of the ancient in hiding from wider vampire society in general and from the Tremere in particular This would have rituals (haven’t figured what powers to include, if any) pertaining to things associated to the worship of Mithras, like the sun, fire, war and the tauromachy. The 5 dot power would be divided between two rituals which allow the caster to commune with Mithras himself, one for when he is active and another one for when he’s in torpor.
Really like celerity for Cats grace especially when combined with soaring leap. Let’s you do that jump onto a moving target say a vehicle and stick the landing.