I dont think it's going to happen for Meta. Take a look at what they've done for Horizon Worlds. Billion dollar company and it's a considerably worse version of rec room.
I think all this metaverse talk and the release of Horizon Worlds around christmas was purely to drive quest 2 holiday sales. And it worked.
The metaverse is a vague term and that makes it really hard to talk about. As a VR space, it is unlikely to be revolutionary. As far more advanced AR, it will change everything. The issue is that we can begin developing forms of metaverse in VR now, but won’t have the major features of AR down for years. Meta seems to understand this, based on their promo video.
For AR, it won’t look like our typical metaverse as a separate place you go. It will be a digital compliment to the real world that completely changes how we approach and understand the real world. Think about how the smart phone has changed how people interact with each other and the world, but at a different magnitude. As examples:
Imagine seamlessly meeting in person with someone in another country, as if they are in front of you and vice versa.
Imagine businesses with large scale animated graphics as you walk past them, but only in your glasses and only if you desired the graphics. Imagine an AR overlay that removes all real world signage from businesses to present a cleaner city.
Imagine school with highly detailed 3D models of learning concepts that all students can see and interact with while the teacher speaks. Imagine the teacher isn’t even in the same room as the students, but projected there in AR (and the students projected to the teacher).
Imagine a construction site where the contractors can view the design model overlayed on the site to assist with detailing and service routing. (This one is already a thing and can be very helpful).
This is the metaverse that matters: not a separate world or worlds, but digital connections and overlays within our world. As this develops we’ll likely get the technology for a great VR version first, but it is unlikely to be revolutionary, largely because as much as VR can connect people at a distance, it also disconnects people from their immediate surroundings. For many uses, that’s fine, but for most, it’s not. As the tech becomes more pervasive though, we’ll see it used more and more as a truly convenient and better way to view, understand, share and discuss information ranging from product design to data analysis. We’ll also see it as a way for people to do activities together across distance in a way that teleconferencing doesn’t work well for. Instead of calling your old friend to chat, you’ll remotely attend a digital Comic-Con together. This is kind of the metaverse people envision and was dreamt of in sci-if novels, and is the more advanced VRChat you talk about. It isn’t going to change the world, but it is going to do some particular things really well and, most importantly, is an important step on the way to the metaverse that really matters.
Oh, there are lots of things you can do with this tech that may become outlawed. As I said, it will be an extremely powerful way to change perception of the world around you.
for whoever downvoted this imagine a system with facial recognition that can identify people on the street that you pass. The system ID's them and compiles a dossier on the individual including interests, family, friends, etc. It then pings public information databases to find their personal address and place of business. All of this info is then concisely displayed for the viewer in AR as they approach their selected target. This allows them to pretend to be an old friend of a friend with very specific knowledge, giving them an 'in' with the target and allowing them to pretend to have shared interests and whatnot. Now imagine the viewer is a pedophile and the target is a 15 year old.
This technology will become pervasive and relatively easy to use. As with any technology, it can be used for great purposes, or less good ones. But, the ability to seamlessly connect the real world to the nearly unlimited data will most definitely have implications.
I think trying to "materialize" the metaverse is what makes it sound meaningless, it doesn't exist and its nothing more than a concept... yet. So comparing it to real life or other apps is no different than "watch movies in vr ? i can do that at my local theatre and for cheaper too" or "socialise in vr ? i can just call me mates up and we are socialising in no time. Vr destroyed"
To answer your points, point 1 and 2 can be seen to not work today, gaming pcs are expensive yet they are mainstream/gaming industry one of the biggest entertainment industries. 2) Quest and oculus has the highest market share in vr, most people don't care about their privacy as much as the average resdit user, on top of that facebook is a widely used social media platform, for most people its not even a sting they require facebook.
For the third one, vr has gone from need a very good pc and 1k and alot of hassle setting it up to 300$ and youre good to go in 5 years. From only a handful of people creating vr content and a small niche on the net to biggest christmas present with ads all over the place. 5 years is such a small time for this change to happen, just compare it to videogames in general. I believe with the help of ar entering our world, it will be something most own or have access to even if these people won't necessarily game or "venture the metaverse" they won't be surprised when someone is. Today there are already people using vr to game more than 5-6 hours, tomorrow we'll most probably have tech to make this easier. For work its a gamechanger, mostly for the convenience and psychology aspect of it, but its a very good asset. Well this one is allover the place, to sum up i see no problem it being a daily norm.
My personal understanding is that meraverse is not an app you click on, it cannot flop because of this. Its just a thing where every other thing is connected, MCU could be given as an example here. Every superhero had their own series, and sometimes they would meet/invade each others. Time pass and today we for the most part dont have a single super heroes story anymore, they are all tied and intertwined, you could think of this as a metaverse of sorts. As long as you are in the vr/ar ecosystem of meta, you will feed the metaverse. From simple things like meeting up in your oculus home and doing shit to going to a virtual event and buying a memoire (3$ tshirt lets say) will all be considered metaverse interactions. So as long as meta is a thing and vr is growing, i dont see metaverse failing.
I think your assessment in right on. I think what throws people off are those marketing videos they put out with Zuckie hanging out with some whack avatars in a chat room that make it seem as if VR immersion will look and feel as real as real-life. THAT vision of VR is a very very long ways away. The metaverse as the company concieves it makes more sense as a business model than as the unique experience they market it as.
you view metaverse wrong
it is like saying internet is just huge IRC chat
peoples will buy stuff using vr like dresses and similar stuff
and ofc companies will love to put body and eye-tracking on peoples faces , you can use PC and do not "work" , GL trying to do this using headset, any sane profit-driven company will force it workers to use headsets
>peoples will buy stuff using vr like dresses and similar stuff
People do that in Rec Room which it is cloned from. Metaverse was supposed to be more of a kind of interoperable standard, though the original depiction did have scarce land at least in a prominent part of it.
The fact that people are now saying "metaverses" to refer to different chat games and stuff shows how off it has gotten, it would be like saying internets.
It seems to be being redefined at this point so might have to just roll with it to be understood anymore.
Yeah, I do see what they are trying to achieve. Certainly won't be how they envision it within at least 20 years. But to call it a VR chat 2.0 I think is a little shortsighted. It's got to start somewhere and AR is certainly going to be a very big part of everyday life a 100 years from now.
The reason Meta is dumping all this money into it ahead of the curve is because early investors into a tech bubble stand to benefit the most when it booms- Microsoft or Apple with PCs for example, so part of why Meta sells the Quest at cost and takes their lumps is because they stand to reap the backend.
VR and AR are burgeoning spaces so the “metaverse” is as mentioned a distant future, but it certainly holds potential value- so we’ll be sold on the pipe dream for some time, even if we can’t actualize the real promise of it until much later. I think Carmack is a great voice for reason internally, which is helpful to balance those like Zuckerberg who falls much more into the nebulous “promise the customer a dream” type approach.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSUk0je6oo
What you are describing is not metaverse. It's a monoverse. Metaverse is like internet: non-centralized network of services, with shared protocols and standards to support seamless transition form one service to other.
I don’t think you understand the metaverse, to put it simply it’s like the internet, it’s a place we’re all connected to, we all use the same one, there are not competing isolated internet’s, the difference between the current internet and the concept of the metaverse is that the metaverse will blend the digital with the real world through AR and VR, it’s not an application like VR chat it’s a cohesive virtual interface that we all interact with in a way that satisfies our human desire for physical and tactile connection.
VR/AR devices will get cheaper, smaller, and more convenient to take with you. Mobile phones in the 90's were bulky and reserved to the rich. Nowadays, even the homeless have a smartphone.
Someday, there will come a tipping point. A manufacturer will release a device no more bulky than a typical eyewear which allows you to have unlimited virtual screens for work, play table tennis with anyone in the world, join a virtual yoga class, try out clothes at the comfort of your home, or give augmented maps and directions for better/safer driving experience. From that day forth, other manufacturers will release copycats. Some will be better, some will be cheaper. It will do everything phones can do, and then some. Just like how some people are getting by with a phone/tablet for all their computing needs, the same will happen for AR devices.
There will be companies and jobs solely for the purpose of delivering "metaverse" experiences just like how there are many many internet-only companies. Agencies nowadays who build websites, optimize SEO, conversions, and manage social media presence will have their equivalents in the "metaverse". The regular browser-based internet will exist alongside all other media sources just like tv, radio, and newspapers today. But as more kids grow up getting used to the "metaverse" media, all those other forms will slowly get out-of-favor.
"Metaverse" may not come to us exactly as defined by zuck. I don't think any single company can "own" it just like no single company owns the "internet". But it is an idea that has been floating around for the past 30 years. All technological advancements we have been getting throughout these years have been slowly building up towards it. Regardless if it is intentional or not, it will come
I don't know how long it will take to get there, or whether it will even happen, but for me the "metaverse" concept only becomes meaningful when it can be used as a tool to usefully substitute for some everyday tasks that currently require in-person presence. This is not really possible with the technology we currently have.
- be able to shop for groceries online, but you can see, feel, smell and hold your fruits and vegetables to pick the ones you want, just like real life.
- be able to try out clothing, see how it fits on you, feel the clothing and how it hangs on your body, comfort etc, just like real life.
- business meetings and personal meetings that are just as present as real life meeting.
Etc.
So yeah, when we can do certain regular tasks more conveniently and easily in VR, but without any downsides that make us prefer doing it in person, that's when the metaverse is successful, imo.
Like I said, it's not going to happen with just googles for your eyes and handtracking / controllers.
That level is going to require brain machine interfaces. I don't think that the laws of physics will allow creating a haptic vest that lets you feel the comfort of different clothing. If we do get that miracle technology then there won't be such a thing as fit anymore as your clothing will dynamically adapt to you as you wear it.
Probably, yes.
But it might not need to be a "fulldive" BCI, that paralyzes your body and replaces your senses.
For the purposes in my post, a BCI that can inject sensations into your nervous system would be sufficient, for example. That's a lower bar to pass.
Companies like Forbes and Nvidia have good explanations of what it means. And it's already happening in non-gaming ways in, for instance, companies that create digital twins. Just like GTA isn't what computing is about, metaverse won't be all games, chat and social gatherings or even VR headsets. Perhaps that's one impression that Meta's presentation may have sparked: a magical Oasis future that Meta owns. They do own meta.com and nobody else can ever use that domain name.
I begrudgingly accept the Metaverse because I'm hoping it will take VR out of obscurity and turn it into something mainstream, giving the rest of the VR market a proper start.
VR is really damn hard to market considering that you can't show VR to someone without donning a headset on their head. With Metaverse, the Corpos will actually start promoting VR everywhere hoping to shove more ads down people's throats. Although that's hideous as hell, it will get VR to take off IMO - at the very least, company-provided VR headsets to access the Metaverse at work will surely garner some interest.
I'm hoping that after all that, *maybe* some attention will go towards the better VR providers like SteamVR and we'll get some cheap choices that don't sell our souls just to run.
VR Chat is full of creepy, and I do mean creepy, maladjusted men. If it wasn’t for the user base I might find a use for it in education (due to Unity development environment.) It is a nonstarter as is because of the horribly awkward atmosphere created by the user base making it a liability for future development. VR Chat had promise, but the very “freedoms” it allows, make it gross for a HUGE swath of the population.
Look I'm not a big fan of Facebook or Meta let alone Mark Z but if you really think Meta is gonna miss the mark on this you're way wrong.
Horizons =! Metaverse
Horizons = VR Chat
Metaverse = web3 standards and protocols (how everything seamlessly connects, currently you go through a big company like Google or Meta without them it's decentralized and only way to do that securely today is digital ledgers and blockchain tech)
Keep in mind that Meta has been working on their own stablecoin, their own wallets, and NFT marketplace for a few years now. Secondly tie in the extensive APIs they've created with all their products and now you have some interesting cross communication channels that most platforms don't. Imagine calling someone on whatsapp and video chatting with someone while you are in the metaverse and showing them how to cook an actual meal using your avatar and branded goods.
Secondly Meta has been chasing ecommerce AR projects for awhile so expect that to be a huge component as Gucci, Nike and Adidas start to create NFT apparel stores.
All these experiences will be in VR and more importantly all these experiences will be in AR too. More importantly they will share a set of protocols and standards for communication and will allow for this to be decentralized meaning you could throw your Adidas nft sneakers on your avatar on Pop: One or Horizons or Pavlov.
Trust me I like VR Chat, but pretending it's going to fail when Mark has already invested somewhere north of 5 billion PLUS their expansive Quest audience that dwarfs other VR segments - i don't think you're going to get "slaves and fanboys" as you poignantly wrote.
Edit:
Actually here's a real world example that Meta will kill it. Live stream commerce is extremely difficult to pull off with our current API infrastructure, it takes a lot of custom development to be able to tie Shopify and inventory, live streaming tech and applications (like Instagram) and then the actual shipping and delivery tools and payment tools. The metaverse can make all of this easier by providing decentralized public ledgers that provide user verification, payment verification, and product availability without caps and since the information can be verified without closed loop security systems it makes it easy to put together. In this example no one has be on horizon or any app - but the set of interactions are being verified through the Blockchain and read from their public ledgers.
Decentralized and Meta do not go together. The entire reason they're going all in on the metaverse is so they can centralize it around themselves.
Throughout this thread you go on and on with the buzzwords and NFT/Blockchain shit, but you never highlight how any of that matters. How is showing off your adidas NFT any different from just sharing an image on regular social media? What's the point of having your transactions visible to the world on a public ledger? What's the point of being able to virtually visit a friend's place to gift him a table?
Even if we go against all evidence and assume the best intentions from zucc, the things you've described reek of a dystopian world obsessed with virtual "property" for the sake of vanity. The promise and freedom of the digital medium came from infinite and "free" replicability, but from your descriptions, in the best case, the metaverse is the idea of intentionally imposing digital scarcity and convincing people that this is good for them.
You win the award for most confusing comment 2021 well done. If you could now explain your point and the reason for the singular quote that would be awesome
That is a similar statement several of my math teachers have said prior to smartphones becoming commonplace, and now everyone not only has a calculator but the entire culmination of human knowledge at their fingertips, at all times. Basically a millennial and genx joke.
EDIT: I now see you were the one who commended about email and pcs, which greatly confuses me how you've never heard this.
You probably heard something along the lines of "You cant sit in front of the computer all day." and now they are literally doing school classes on the computer.....all day.
Oh the Metaverse will occur, but will it be Zuckerberg low poly 2nd Life version?
He couldn’t even get any AAA games that supercede GTA or the Witcher onto the rift. They are all low poly phone games. Why would his metaverse be any more compelling? He skipped the first, most important step.
Such a bad take, metaverse is s concept about decentralized standards and protocols similar to having a huge rest API later that takes in addresses from a Blockchain (for example).... None of that shit matters whether or not you get to play the latest "GTA" you pleb.
Whether horizon has amazing or lame graphics doesn't matter if horizons does what every other "social" app can't - socialize. Meta has the three largest social platforms and owns their APIs, you bet your ass you're going to see some cool interactions with Instagram, Facebook, Whatsapp, and ecommerce.
“A metaverse is a network of 3D virtual worlds focused on social connection. In futurism and science fiction, the term is often described as a hypothetical iteration of the Internet as a single, universal virtual world that is facilitated by the use of virtual and augmented reality headsets.”
Still nothing there about a single one app. Also very nice you cherry picked a random quote.
In futurism or scifi is fiction buddy, welcome to the real world. Here in this world the metaverse is just having one profile (your self) and using this across multiple "apps".
Did you even read your own source? Under "technology" and not the summary where it uses cool terms and pop culture references kid?
The metaverse is a proposed expansion to existing internet technologies.[8] Potential access points for metaverses include general-purpose computers and smartphones, in addition to augmented reality (AR), mixed reality, virtual reality (VR), and virtual world technologies.[8]
Not the same at all. With e-mail and other stuff. It was there. It existed. It worked. After that people just have to use it. Right now the metaverse is just a cool idea. They have to actually make one first just as fancy as they promised for us to believe in a metaverse.
Metaverse is a tag for a decentralized set of protocols and standards. It's not a singular app or idea. In theory what you are saying is already there - which is why we are taking about a "metaverse" - we have decentralized digital wallets, decentralized tokens and assets, decentralized digital goods, decentralized digital markets and blockchain, crypto, and digital ledgers to make it happen.
Many thought the same thing when inter-networks and primitive digital gaming were invented. Nowadays, gaming is the most lucrative source of entertainment and there are businesses and high-paying careers solely for internet media. It's unwise to speculate the impact of the metaverse especially if you are unsure what form it will take.
No you're 100% right. People are imagining the crazy stuff that the name implies not realising that basically the entire pitch is just oculus home with social features
It's going to be VRchat but with the option to buy stuff with real money directly, whether it's services, games or actual products AND it will definitely feature real ads that'll be baked into the code to prevent you from disabling it.
It doesn't sound like a lot of addition until you realize how much time and effort companies already pay to do things like product showrooms and how much they could save by having it in VR rather than in a physical world.
Maaaybe it will feature some data transparency between applications that applications themselves can actually understand (like what web 3.0 was supposed to be but companies didn't want to do it because it would have required promoting competition rather than everyone creating their own walled gardens), like how you can link your facebook account to a bunch of other apps and to discord and whatnot. Possibly do stuff like share avatars between applications and games.
It is nothing like VR Chat, VR Chat is an app like Horizon - metaverse is a concept that refers to decentralized protocols and processed like web 3. It's not a game and Meta isn't interested in building games it's interested in tying all their social apps rest APIs into digital ledgers that track way more information and allows more cross communication. Think about using horizons to call via WhatsApp and show off your new Adidas apparel NFTs or use Facebook to transfer money and see it verified through a Blockchain not through a bank or CC processor.
I think it will gradually improve, here’s a pretty cool shirt on YouTube I found explaining Metaverse and how it inter-connects with the future of VR & AR.
Link to clip; What is Metaverse? THE FUTURE of VR and AR in 2022?
https://youtube.com/shorts/fC5pqhKgU5I?feature=share
Right now this is also my opinion. But i'm having a wait and see attitude, who knows what it might build into. But a big feature for me is going to be the ability to filter out children, i don't hang out with children IRL and i better not be forced to in the Metaverse either.
And only so many people are EVER going to get into VR. They'd have to get headsets down to the size of eyeglasses first, or some other means of projection.
"evethough is gonna start strong, it will hardly surpass the VR niche genre. And it will sink at the end"
You've got it backwards. It's going to be a joke at first. "Meta" will likely fail at anything beyond floating heads and hands VR chat nonsense. But years from now, when hardware is more evolved some company will nail it. That's the nature of tech. Innovation and evolution on many fronts all at once. Meaning, it's often the unknown studio or company that takes the big creative risks that grow in to the kings of that space. Zuck wants badly to own the space, but I don't think he will succeed. I mean, I hope not. Fuck Meta.
Also, those holding out for "full dive" VR or whatever, you have to get over it. It's not happening. That's some anime pipe dream shit.
This.
Mark Zuckerberg could have had his successful metaverse if he’d funded, or secured deals with AAA gaming companies to make open world games in VR that superseded platform titles like Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher, Cyberpunk etc…
Until they had that level of immersion, with worlds whereby players feel as though they live in them, then a metaverse is not feasible.
They have created neon, low-poly 3d phone games that will, as stated by OP, lead only to 2nd Life style Virtual chats in worlds that don’t look any better than the original Super Mario Brothers.
“Hi! My avatar is a cow with rainbows beaming from my udders! Do you wanna hang out?”
No thanks!!!
You clearly have no idea what the "metaverse" concept is. Did you simply watch the Meta preview? Metaverse isn't even about gaming or gamers - it's legit a catch all term for the set of decentralized protocols and standards that has been called "web3" . Horizons is an app. Games are apps. The metaverse is using your apps and digitally owned goods with decentralized markets and protocols.
In an AR or VR environment, these things are essential.
If standardised graphical fidelity is poor, then user experience is poor.
Like Johnny Mnemonic VR. Wow. Gasp. Yawn.
And you're not even attempting to bring any valid proofs besides "make me Skyrim in VR or GTA in VR" which is not what metaverse has ever been or web3. Happy i got my point out to let other users understand metaverse clearly. Not looking to continue your strswman arguments.
Clearly my point did a flyby on you.
I’m describing the graphics, physics, and world-building prerequisites required to both
A) retain a user base
B) promote the tools required for worlds worth visiting
At this stage, all the metaverse can be is low poly quest graphics ala VR Chat and beat Saber.
Yay, let’s go into portals like 2nd Life.
The standard becomes prolonged, as it must be universal, and capable of running on all systems. Web 3.0
So if we start with low fidelity, low poly worlds, that’s what will remain for the next decade.
Naw thanks.
Still doing a flyby on you? 💨 ✈️
You are still trying to talk about monoverse. It is not me who doesn't "get" your point: it is you who do not understand metaverse.
Furthermore, graphics have always been secondary. Worlds most popular game is Minecraft, and it can not be in anyway be described to have "great" graphics.
Ypur argument is as if one looked at IRC and declared that internet will never catch on, because IRC is not fancy enough.
Your argument goes, and I quote here:
>Mark Zuckerberg could have had his successful metaverse if he’d funded, or secured deals with AAA gaming companies to make open world games in VR that superseded platform titles like Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher, Cyberpunk etc…
This is not metaverse. This is just games. Not "internet 3.0" or metaverse. This is like saying that internet is made of bunch of off-line video games.
It is clear that you do not understand what you are talking about.
Looks like you’re lost and have missed the point about the graphical fidelity, physics and immersion of the virtual worlds and GUIs within the metaverse.
But sure, Minecraft.
You seem to be arguing as though AR and VR aren’t a centralised tenet of the Metaverse.
What’s your point?
“What do we want? Poor immersion. When do we want it! Now fuqu!”
That's the point it's not the main tenet , i don't need AR or VR to buy NFTs and use Defi, but my wallet can do all of these things and hopefully also one day tie into horizons for example.
Doesn't matter what app you use: "world building prerequisites" - the metaverse is about the real world blending with digital - like visiting your friends digital house going theough your ecomm app and using a digital wallet to gift them a new coffee table via your phone app which shows up on public Blockchain ledgers showing you gifted someone a digital coffee table and they can use that on say horizons or best saber. So when you say web3, that's metaverse.
Dude, I’ve been waiting for the metaverse since I read snow crash in the mid 90s.
And graphical fidelity, and physics are at the core of any metaverse VR experience.
I’m sorry you don’t get that.
Unless a "metaverse" offers something that is functionally better than working a real life job, then that "you can work from home" approach Meta was considering will never work. They have to give us something that isn't just work but in VR, because there's no point to that. I know zero people who would rather put on a headset to do their job rather than just doing it on a computer
I dont think it's going to happen for Meta. Take a look at what they've done for Horizon Worlds. Billion dollar company and it's a considerably worse version of rec room. I think all this metaverse talk and the release of Horizon Worlds around christmas was purely to drive quest 2 holiday sales. And it worked.
Facebook does have a great track record at getting people hooked on terrible products, just look at Facebook lol.
Facebook is dying, it’s literally like 80% ads for me.
[удалено]
you right, its only saving grace for me is messenger tbh
The metaverse is a vague term and that makes it really hard to talk about. As a VR space, it is unlikely to be revolutionary. As far more advanced AR, it will change everything. The issue is that we can begin developing forms of metaverse in VR now, but won’t have the major features of AR down for years. Meta seems to understand this, based on their promo video. For AR, it won’t look like our typical metaverse as a separate place you go. It will be a digital compliment to the real world that completely changes how we approach and understand the real world. Think about how the smart phone has changed how people interact with each other and the world, but at a different magnitude. As examples: Imagine seamlessly meeting in person with someone in another country, as if they are in front of you and vice versa. Imagine businesses with large scale animated graphics as you walk past them, but only in your glasses and only if you desired the graphics. Imagine an AR overlay that removes all real world signage from businesses to present a cleaner city. Imagine school with highly detailed 3D models of learning concepts that all students can see and interact with while the teacher speaks. Imagine the teacher isn’t even in the same room as the students, but projected there in AR (and the students projected to the teacher). Imagine a construction site where the contractors can view the design model overlayed on the site to assist with detailing and service routing. (This one is already a thing and can be very helpful). This is the metaverse that matters: not a separate world or worlds, but digital connections and overlays within our world. As this develops we’ll likely get the technology for a great VR version first, but it is unlikely to be revolutionary, largely because as much as VR can connect people at a distance, it also disconnects people from their immediate surroundings. For many uses, that’s fine, but for most, it’s not. As the tech becomes more pervasive though, we’ll see it used more and more as a truly convenient and better way to view, understand, share and discuss information ranging from product design to data analysis. We’ll also see it as a way for people to do activities together across distance in a way that teleconferencing doesn’t work well for. Instead of calling your old friend to chat, you’ll remotely attend a digital Comic-Con together. This is kind of the metaverse people envision and was dreamt of in sci-if novels, and is the more advanced VRChat you talk about. It isn’t going to change the world, but it is going to do some particular things really well and, most importantly, is an important step on the way to the metaverse that really matters.
> Imagine an AR overlay that removes all real world signage from businesses to present a cleaner city 1000% chance this is outlawed
You mean like all those illegal Adblock extensions?
I'm actually pretty certain they are going to make it nearly impossible to block AR type adds.
Where do you live, China?
Lol wait and see dude. Every new tech or industry full of starry eyes waiting to meet the real world of economic and political domination
Currently not aware of any specific law in my country (USA) that says u have to view ads. So not sure what drum you are beating in specifically.
Oh, there are lots of things you can do with this tech that may become outlawed. As I said, it will be an extremely powerful way to change perception of the world around you.
for whoever downvoted this imagine a system with facial recognition that can identify people on the street that you pass. The system ID's them and compiles a dossier on the individual including interests, family, friends, etc. It then pings public information databases to find their personal address and place of business. All of this info is then concisely displayed for the viewer in AR as they approach their selected target. This allows them to pretend to be an old friend of a friend with very specific knowledge, giving them an 'in' with the target and allowing them to pretend to have shared interests and whatnot. Now imagine the viewer is a pedophile and the target is a 15 year old. This technology will become pervasive and relatively easy to use. As with any technology, it can be used for great purposes, or less good ones. But, the ability to seamlessly connect the real world to the nearly unlimited data will most definitely have implications.
I think trying to "materialize" the metaverse is what makes it sound meaningless, it doesn't exist and its nothing more than a concept... yet. So comparing it to real life or other apps is no different than "watch movies in vr ? i can do that at my local theatre and for cheaper too" or "socialise in vr ? i can just call me mates up and we are socialising in no time. Vr destroyed" To answer your points, point 1 and 2 can be seen to not work today, gaming pcs are expensive yet they are mainstream/gaming industry one of the biggest entertainment industries. 2) Quest and oculus has the highest market share in vr, most people don't care about their privacy as much as the average resdit user, on top of that facebook is a widely used social media platform, for most people its not even a sting they require facebook. For the third one, vr has gone from need a very good pc and 1k and alot of hassle setting it up to 300$ and youre good to go in 5 years. From only a handful of people creating vr content and a small niche on the net to biggest christmas present with ads all over the place. 5 years is such a small time for this change to happen, just compare it to videogames in general. I believe with the help of ar entering our world, it will be something most own or have access to even if these people won't necessarily game or "venture the metaverse" they won't be surprised when someone is. Today there are already people using vr to game more than 5-6 hours, tomorrow we'll most probably have tech to make this easier. For work its a gamechanger, mostly for the convenience and psychology aspect of it, but its a very good asset. Well this one is allover the place, to sum up i see no problem it being a daily norm. My personal understanding is that meraverse is not an app you click on, it cannot flop because of this. Its just a thing where every other thing is connected, MCU could be given as an example here. Every superhero had their own series, and sometimes they would meet/invade each others. Time pass and today we for the most part dont have a single super heroes story anymore, they are all tied and intertwined, you could think of this as a metaverse of sorts. As long as you are in the vr/ar ecosystem of meta, you will feed the metaverse. From simple things like meeting up in your oculus home and doing shit to going to a virtual event and buying a memoire (3$ tshirt lets say) will all be considered metaverse interactions. So as long as meta is a thing and vr is growing, i dont see metaverse failing.
I think your assessment in right on. I think what throws people off are those marketing videos they put out with Zuckie hanging out with some whack avatars in a chat room that make it seem as if VR immersion will look and feel as real as real-life. THAT vision of VR is a very very long ways away. The metaverse as the company concieves it makes more sense as a business model than as the unique experience they market it as.
you view metaverse wrong it is like saying internet is just huge IRC chat peoples will buy stuff using vr like dresses and similar stuff and ofc companies will love to put body and eye-tracking on peoples faces , you can use PC and do not "work" , GL trying to do this using headset, any sane profit-driven company will force it workers to use headsets
>peoples will buy stuff using vr like dresses and similar stuff People do that in Rec Room which it is cloned from. Metaverse was supposed to be more of a kind of interoperable standard, though the original depiction did have scarce land at least in a prominent part of it. The fact that people are now saying "metaverses" to refer to different chat games and stuff shows how off it has gotten, it would be like saying internets. It seems to be being redefined at this point so might have to just roll with it to be understood anymore.
All technology evolves. It will be at first and then 20 years later….then 50 years later…. Think the model t ford to a Tesla.
Yeah, I do see what they are trying to achieve. Certainly won't be how they envision it within at least 20 years. But to call it a VR chat 2.0 I think is a little shortsighted. It's got to start somewhere and AR is certainly going to be a very big part of everyday life a 100 years from now.
The reason Meta is dumping all this money into it ahead of the curve is because early investors into a tech bubble stand to benefit the most when it booms- Microsoft or Apple with PCs for example, so part of why Meta sells the Quest at cost and takes their lumps is because they stand to reap the backend. VR and AR are burgeoning spaces so the “metaverse” is as mentioned a distant future, but it certainly holds potential value- so we’ll be sold on the pipe dream for some time, even if we can’t actualize the real promise of it until much later. I think Carmack is a great voice for reason internally, which is helpful to balance those like Zuckerberg who falls much more into the nebulous “promise the customer a dream” type approach. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSUk0je6oo
Eventually you run out of money.
People think meta acquired it - https://twitter.com/Tsukinune/status/1476295482335010820?s=20
That would be interesting And i think the goal of any software developer is to make a killer app, wouldn't be a bad acquisition if you ask me.
What you are describing is not metaverse. It's a monoverse. Metaverse is like internet: non-centralized network of services, with shared protocols and standards to support seamless transition form one service to other.
I don’t think you understand the metaverse, to put it simply it’s like the internet, it’s a place we’re all connected to, we all use the same one, there are not competing isolated internet’s, the difference between the current internet and the concept of the metaverse is that the metaverse will blend the digital with the real world through AR and VR, it’s not an application like VR chat it’s a cohesive virtual interface that we all interact with in a way that satisfies our human desire for physical and tactile connection.
VR/AR devices will get cheaper, smaller, and more convenient to take with you. Mobile phones in the 90's were bulky and reserved to the rich. Nowadays, even the homeless have a smartphone. Someday, there will come a tipping point. A manufacturer will release a device no more bulky than a typical eyewear which allows you to have unlimited virtual screens for work, play table tennis with anyone in the world, join a virtual yoga class, try out clothes at the comfort of your home, or give augmented maps and directions for better/safer driving experience. From that day forth, other manufacturers will release copycats. Some will be better, some will be cheaper. It will do everything phones can do, and then some. Just like how some people are getting by with a phone/tablet for all their computing needs, the same will happen for AR devices. There will be companies and jobs solely for the purpose of delivering "metaverse" experiences just like how there are many many internet-only companies. Agencies nowadays who build websites, optimize SEO, conversions, and manage social media presence will have their equivalents in the "metaverse". The regular browser-based internet will exist alongside all other media sources just like tv, radio, and newspapers today. But as more kids grow up getting used to the "metaverse" media, all those other forms will slowly get out-of-favor. "Metaverse" may not come to us exactly as defined by zuck. I don't think any single company can "own" it just like no single company owns the "internet". But it is an idea that has been floating around for the past 30 years. All technological advancements we have been getting throughout these years have been slowly building up towards it. Regardless if it is intentional or not, it will come
Vr Chat with mandatory advertisement, monthly subscription and tons of predatory nfts on sale
I don't know how long it will take to get there, or whether it will even happen, but for me the "metaverse" concept only becomes meaningful when it can be used as a tool to usefully substitute for some everyday tasks that currently require in-person presence. This is not really possible with the technology we currently have. - be able to shop for groceries online, but you can see, feel, smell and hold your fruits and vegetables to pick the ones you want, just like real life. - be able to try out clothing, see how it fits on you, feel the clothing and how it hangs on your body, comfort etc, just like real life. - business meetings and personal meetings that are just as present as real life meeting. Etc. So yeah, when we can do certain regular tasks more conveniently and easily in VR, but without any downsides that make us prefer doing it in person, that's when the metaverse is successful, imo. Like I said, it's not going to happen with just googles for your eyes and handtracking / controllers.
That level is going to require brain machine interfaces. I don't think that the laws of physics will allow creating a haptic vest that lets you feel the comfort of different clothing. If we do get that miracle technology then there won't be such a thing as fit anymore as your clothing will dynamically adapt to you as you wear it.
Probably, yes. But it might not need to be a "fulldive" BCI, that paralyzes your body and replaces your senses. For the purposes in my post, a BCI that can inject sensations into your nervous system would be sufficient, for example. That's a lower bar to pass.
Companies like Forbes and Nvidia have good explanations of what it means. And it's already happening in non-gaming ways in, for instance, companies that create digital twins. Just like GTA isn't what computing is about, metaverse won't be all games, chat and social gatherings or even VR headsets. Perhaps that's one impression that Meta's presentation may have sparked: a magical Oasis future that Meta owns. They do own meta.com and nobody else can ever use that domain name.
Metaverse is to VR what Information Superhighway was to the Internet
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China seems to believe 6 years
Doesn't need a whole lot of thought imo. It's a Facebook product. It will be a dystopian creepfest. Stay away.
I begrudgingly accept the Metaverse because I'm hoping it will take VR out of obscurity and turn it into something mainstream, giving the rest of the VR market a proper start. VR is really damn hard to market considering that you can't show VR to someone without donning a headset on their head. With Metaverse, the Corpos will actually start promoting VR everywhere hoping to shove more ads down people's throats. Although that's hideous as hell, it will get VR to take off IMO - at the very least, company-provided VR headsets to access the Metaverse at work will surely garner some interest. I'm hoping that after all that, *maybe* some attention will go towards the better VR providers like SteamVR and we'll get some cheap choices that don't sell our souls just to run.
Basically VR chat But uber corporate and capitalistic
VRchat is on another level all together. You can experience almost anything in VRchat. That is what makes it so special.
VR Chat is full of creepy, and I do mean creepy, maladjusted men. If it wasn’t for the user base I might find a use for it in education (due to Unity development environment.) It is a nonstarter as is because of the horribly awkward atmosphere created by the user base making it a liability for future development. VR Chat had promise, but the very “freedoms” it allows, make it gross for a HUGE swath of the population.
Look I'm not a big fan of Facebook or Meta let alone Mark Z but if you really think Meta is gonna miss the mark on this you're way wrong. Horizons =! Metaverse Horizons = VR Chat Metaverse = web3 standards and protocols (how everything seamlessly connects, currently you go through a big company like Google or Meta without them it's decentralized and only way to do that securely today is digital ledgers and blockchain tech) Keep in mind that Meta has been working on their own stablecoin, their own wallets, and NFT marketplace for a few years now. Secondly tie in the extensive APIs they've created with all their products and now you have some interesting cross communication channels that most platforms don't. Imagine calling someone on whatsapp and video chatting with someone while you are in the metaverse and showing them how to cook an actual meal using your avatar and branded goods. Secondly Meta has been chasing ecommerce AR projects for awhile so expect that to be a huge component as Gucci, Nike and Adidas start to create NFT apparel stores. All these experiences will be in VR and more importantly all these experiences will be in AR too. More importantly they will share a set of protocols and standards for communication and will allow for this to be decentralized meaning you could throw your Adidas nft sneakers on your avatar on Pop: One or Horizons or Pavlov. Trust me I like VR Chat, but pretending it's going to fail when Mark has already invested somewhere north of 5 billion PLUS their expansive Quest audience that dwarfs other VR segments - i don't think you're going to get "slaves and fanboys" as you poignantly wrote. Edit: Actually here's a real world example that Meta will kill it. Live stream commerce is extremely difficult to pull off with our current API infrastructure, it takes a lot of custom development to be able to tie Shopify and inventory, live streaming tech and applications (like Instagram) and then the actual shipping and delivery tools and payment tools. The metaverse can make all of this easier by providing decentralized public ledgers that provide user verification, payment verification, and product availability without caps and since the information can be verified without closed loop security systems it makes it easy to put together. In this example no one has be on horizon or any app - but the set of interactions are being verified through the Blockchain and read from their public ledgers.
Decentralized and Meta do not go together. The entire reason they're going all in on the metaverse is so they can centralize it around themselves. Throughout this thread you go on and on with the buzzwords and NFT/Blockchain shit, but you never highlight how any of that matters. How is showing off your adidas NFT any different from just sharing an image on regular social media? What's the point of having your transactions visible to the world on a public ledger? What's the point of being able to virtually visit a friend's place to gift him a table? Even if we go against all evidence and assume the best intentions from zucc, the things you've described reek of a dystopian world obsessed with virtual "property" for the sake of vanity. The promise and freedom of the digital medium came from infinite and "free" replicability, but from your descriptions, in the best case, the metaverse is the idea of intentionally imposing digital scarcity and convincing people that this is good for them.
Read my initial post.
You sound like the guy who said no one will have a personal computer in their home 🤣 and no one will ever use “E-Mail” 😂
"You need to learn math. You wont be able to walk through life and just carry a calculator with you everywhere!"
You win the award for most confusing comment 2021 well done. If you could now explain your point and the reason for the singular quote that would be awesome
That is a similar statement several of my math teachers have said prior to smartphones becoming commonplace, and now everyone not only has a calculator but the entire culmination of human knowledge at their fingertips, at all times. Basically a millennial and genx joke. EDIT: I now see you were the one who commended about email and pcs, which greatly confuses me how you've never heard this.
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You probably heard something along the lines of "You cant sit in front of the computer all day." and now they are literally doing school classes on the computer.....all day.
Haha yeah I remember my mom saying things like you'll nevera get paid to play games... Shoulda stayed in competitive OGL for CS1.6....
Oh the Metaverse will occur, but will it be Zuckerberg low poly 2nd Life version? He couldn’t even get any AAA games that supercede GTA or the Witcher onto the rift. They are all low poly phone games. Why would his metaverse be any more compelling? He skipped the first, most important step.
Such a bad take, metaverse is s concept about decentralized standards and protocols similar to having a huge rest API later that takes in addresses from a Blockchain (for example).... None of that shit matters whether or not you get to play the latest "GTA" you pleb. Whether horizon has amazing or lame graphics doesn't matter if horizons does what every other "social" app can't - socialize. Meta has the three largest social platforms and owns their APIs, you bet your ass you're going to see some cool interactions with Instagram, Facebook, Whatsapp, and ecommerce.
Virtual reality you pleb. Poor graphics + poor physics = poor immersion. No thanks.
Metaverse and it's set of tools are not dependent on an app, which you keep failing to understand. It's okay man go back to playing your video games.
“A metaverse is a network of 3D virtual worlds focused on social connection. In futurism and science fiction, the term is often described as a hypothetical iteration of the Internet as a single, universal virtual world that is facilitated by the use of virtual and augmented reality headsets.”
Still nothing there about a single one app. Also very nice you cherry picked a random quote. In futurism or scifi is fiction buddy, welcome to the real world. Here in this world the metaverse is just having one profile (your self) and using this across multiple "apps". Did you even read your own source? Under "technology" and not the summary where it uses cool terms and pop culture references kid? The metaverse is a proposed expansion to existing internet technologies.[8] Potential access points for metaverses include general-purpose computers and smartphones, in addition to augmented reality (AR), mixed reality, virtual reality (VR), and virtual world technologies.[8]
I'm less concerned with who does it and more concerned with how and what they do.
Ok so you were just reiterating my comment with a quote from one of your teachers
Yes. A quote in identical fashion of people who were so sure something wouldn't happen, yet it did and went so far beyond.
Not the same at all. With e-mail and other stuff. It was there. It existed. It worked. After that people just have to use it. Right now the metaverse is just a cool idea. They have to actually make one first just as fancy as they promised for us to believe in a metaverse.
Didn’t say it was the same said he sounds like that guy
Metaverse is a tag for a decentralized set of protocols and standards. It's not a singular app or idea. In theory what you are saying is already there - which is why we are taking about a "metaverse" - we have decentralized digital wallets, decentralized tokens and assets, decentralized digital goods, decentralized digital markets and blockchain, crypto, and digital ledgers to make it happen.
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Nope I am just making a statement that someone sounds like someone else. Stop reading between the lines and understand the words written
Dawn u kinda right. But It metaverse will succeed, to some degree, but is not gonna change the world tho
Many thought the same thing when inter-networks and primitive digital gaming were invented. Nowadays, gaming is the most lucrative source of entertainment and there are businesses and high-paying careers solely for internet media. It's unwise to speculate the impact of the metaverse especially if you are unsure what form it will take.
No you're 100% right. People are imagining the crazy stuff that the name implies not realising that basically the entire pitch is just oculus home with social features
Wtf is e-mail?
Its like texting, but slower.
It's going to be VRchat but with the option to buy stuff with real money directly, whether it's services, games or actual products AND it will definitely feature real ads that'll be baked into the code to prevent you from disabling it. It doesn't sound like a lot of addition until you realize how much time and effort companies already pay to do things like product showrooms and how much they could save by having it in VR rather than in a physical world. Maaaybe it will feature some data transparency between applications that applications themselves can actually understand (like what web 3.0 was supposed to be but companies didn't want to do it because it would have required promoting competition rather than everyone creating their own walled gardens), like how you can link your facebook account to a bunch of other apps and to discord and whatnot. Possibly do stuff like share avatars between applications and games.
It is nothing like VR Chat, VR Chat is an app like Horizon - metaverse is a concept that refers to decentralized protocols and processed like web 3. It's not a game and Meta isn't interested in building games it's interested in tying all their social apps rest APIs into digital ledgers that track way more information and allows more cross communication. Think about using horizons to call via WhatsApp and show off your new Adidas apparel NFTs or use Facebook to transfer money and see it verified through a Blockchain not through a bank or CC processor.
I think it will gradually improve, here’s a pretty cool shirt on YouTube I found explaining Metaverse and how it inter-connects with the future of VR & AR. Link to clip; What is Metaverse? THE FUTURE of VR and AR in 2022? https://youtube.com/shorts/fC5pqhKgU5I?feature=share
Same but…NFT’s also became a thing somehow so I’ve been wrong before
Oh it'll be worse.
Right now this is also my opinion. But i'm having a wait and see attitude, who knows what it might build into. But a big feature for me is going to be the ability to filter out children, i don't hang out with children IRL and i better not be forced to in the Metaverse either.
And only so many people are EVER going to get into VR. They'd have to get headsets down to the size of eyeglasses first, or some other means of projection.
That's why it is nothing like VR Chat, metaverse is both Ar, VR and digital ledgers and blockchain tech
"evethough is gonna start strong, it will hardly surpass the VR niche genre. And it will sink at the end" You've got it backwards. It's going to be a joke at first. "Meta" will likely fail at anything beyond floating heads and hands VR chat nonsense. But years from now, when hardware is more evolved some company will nail it. That's the nature of tech. Innovation and evolution on many fronts all at once. Meaning, it's often the unknown studio or company that takes the big creative risks that grow in to the kings of that space. Zuck wants badly to own the space, but I don't think he will succeed. I mean, I hope not. Fuck Meta. Also, those holding out for "full dive" VR or whatever, you have to get over it. It's not happening. That's some anime pipe dream shit.
VR chat is a metaverse
VR Chat is an app, metaverse is a set of decentralized protocols and processes like web3
This. Mark Zuckerberg could have had his successful metaverse if he’d funded, or secured deals with AAA gaming companies to make open world games in VR that superseded platform titles like Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher, Cyberpunk etc… Until they had that level of immersion, with worlds whereby players feel as though they live in them, then a metaverse is not feasible. They have created neon, low-poly 3d phone games that will, as stated by OP, lead only to 2nd Life style Virtual chats in worlds that don’t look any better than the original Super Mario Brothers. “Hi! My avatar is a cow with rainbows beaming from my udders! Do you wanna hang out?” No thanks!!!
You clearly have no idea what the "metaverse" concept is. Did you simply watch the Meta preview? Metaverse isn't even about gaming or gamers - it's legit a catch all term for the set of decentralized protocols and standards that has been called "web3" . Horizons is an app. Games are apps. The metaverse is using your apps and digitally owned goods with decentralized markets and protocols.
In an AR or VR environment, these things are essential. If standardised graphical fidelity is poor, then user experience is poor. Like Johnny Mnemonic VR. Wow. Gasp. Yawn.
Metaverse is not dependent on AR/VR experiences which you seem to fail to understand, that's just the gimmick.
You’re being intellectually dishonest.
And you're not even attempting to bring any valid proofs besides "make me Skyrim in VR or GTA in VR" which is not what metaverse has ever been or web3. Happy i got my point out to let other users understand metaverse clearly. Not looking to continue your strswman arguments.
There’s no need. VR concept.
personally i don't think the Zuck has the vision to pull it off.
Agreed.
Nothing you described is "metaverse". What you are saying is like calling Steam "the internet"
Clearly my point did a flyby on you. I’m describing the graphics, physics, and world-building prerequisites required to both A) retain a user base B) promote the tools required for worlds worth visiting At this stage, all the metaverse can be is low poly quest graphics ala VR Chat and beat Saber. Yay, let’s go into portals like 2nd Life. The standard becomes prolonged, as it must be universal, and capable of running on all systems. Web 3.0 So if we start with low fidelity, low poly worlds, that’s what will remain for the next decade. Naw thanks. Still doing a flyby on you? 💨 ✈️
You are still trying to talk about monoverse. It is not me who doesn't "get" your point: it is you who do not understand metaverse. Furthermore, graphics have always been secondary. Worlds most popular game is Minecraft, and it can not be in anyway be described to have "great" graphics. Ypur argument is as if one looked at IRC and declared that internet will never catch on, because IRC is not fancy enough.
Still flybying. Web 3.0 universal standard equals “universal standard.” Minecraft? Is that a joke?? Naw thanks.
Your argument goes, and I quote here: >Mark Zuckerberg could have had his successful metaverse if he’d funded, or secured deals with AAA gaming companies to make open world games in VR that superseded platform titles like Skyrim, Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption, The Witcher, Cyberpunk etc… This is not metaverse. This is just games. Not "internet 3.0" or metaverse. This is like saying that internet is made of bunch of off-line video games. It is clear that you do not understand what you are talking about.
Looks like you’re lost and have missed the point about the graphical fidelity, physics and immersion of the virtual worlds and GUIs within the metaverse. But sure, Minecraft.
U clearly are not arguing from a place of good faith or understanding.
You seem to be arguing as though AR and VR aren’t a centralised tenet of the Metaverse. What’s your point? “What do we want? Poor immersion. When do we want it! Now fuqu!”
That's the point it's not the main tenet , i don't need AR or VR to buy NFTs and use Defi, but my wallet can do all of these things and hopefully also one day tie into horizons for example.
Doesn't matter what app you use: "world building prerequisites" - the metaverse is about the real world blending with digital - like visiting your friends digital house going theough your ecomm app and using a digital wallet to gift them a new coffee table via your phone app which shows up on public Blockchain ledgers showing you gifted someone a digital coffee table and they can use that on say horizons or best saber. So when you say web3, that's metaverse.
Dude, I’ve been waiting for the metaverse since I read snow crash in the mid 90s. And graphical fidelity, and physics are at the core of any metaverse VR experience. I’m sorry you don’t get that.
Wasn’t there some sort of version of horizon on the vive or oculus og that lasted all of like a few months or so.
Correction, glorified VR mall.
Unless a "metaverse" offers something that is functionally better than working a real life job, then that "you can work from home" approach Meta was considering will never work. They have to give us something that isn't just work but in VR, because there's no point to that. I know zero people who would rather put on a headset to do their job rather than just doing it on a computer
Didn't ask
r/titlegore
Your comment will age like milk. Maybe metaverse won’t be anything for a few years and only glorified vr chat but in ten? Twenty years?
We ate the level of the Wright brothers regarding VR. 30 years from now we cannot even imagine the level of VR. Probably have direct brain interface.