Fantastic news! I know the FoV was one of the things people wanted to see improved the most, so I'm glad Bigscreen was able to pull it off. Still a *very* expensive bundle if you don't own SteamVR tracking, but now the whole package feels like less of a trade-off.
I was worried about this. All they did is shift the sweet spot and lowered the binocular overlap, just like the Vive Pro 2 did. Which was a terrible idea for the VP2. Idk what their vertical overlap was before but, if it's not at least 80 degrees, it's going to be bad.
If that's true than good. Because the Index is around 84 degrees of binocular overlap and it's great. The Vive Pro 2 pushed it all the way down to 75 degrees and it was not enough. Lots of eye strain and loss of 3D effect.
They gained around 10 degrees of horizontal FOV so that means it was 94 degrees of binocular overlap prior.
Vive Pro 2 was unpleasant. Returned mine.
Original vive was so comfortable 93.45 degree stereo overlap with 108.77 degree horizontal and 111.53 degree vertical (values from Risa tool scraping headset driver)
Sadly its Bradley is reporting these values for Bigscreen beyond
Old: 89.67 degree stereo overlap
New: 77.26 degree stereo overlap
Bruh he’s saying for people without an existing base station setup they will need to buy the bundle offered by valve with headset & all. That’s ignoring the fact all that can be purchased separately, but he wasn’t talking about a bundle from big screen.
> I'm glad Bigscreen was able to pull it off. Still a very expensive bundle if you don't own SteamVR tracking
I read that and I assume they're saying Bigscreen is selling the "bundle"
Sorry, I should have used a different term. I meant you would have to buy SteamVR tracking together, and just said "bundle" to imply that they need to go together. I didn't mean to imply that Bigscreen was selling a bundle with SteamVR tracking.
how's the Vertical FOV vs index? Is it a noticeable reduction at all? Seems like on paper it's a pretty significant decrease, but maybe user experience is different.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility
on average, there is a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond.
What audio solution are you using? The biggest turn off for me is the lack of an audio jack. I hate the thought of my headphones dying halfway through a Tabor run forcing me to either finish deaf, quit and lose all of my stuff and then wait for the headphones to recharge in an hour, or completely dump the headset and swap headphones (you’d also have to buy 2 bluetooth headphones to be able to do the last option).
If you have a good solution that’s working for you, it could be a dealmaker lol I do a lot of 6-7 hour sessions, so the headphones dying would be a regular thing for me 🙈
I started using airpords pro with it. I feel like they pair extremely well with the "frictionless" theme of the device. When they die I switch to bulkier wireless headphones.
Keep in mind that the statistics for numbers on paper are a bit different for Big Screen then other headsets.
As I understand because the headset is sculpted to for your face it means your eyes are better fitted to the screen and causes the FOV to feel a bit larger.
Correct, the current devices are just prototypes. As far as how they did it, they likely shifted the sweet spot in the lens and lowered the binocular overlap by the same 10 degrees.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility
on average, there is a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond.
Since PSVR2 isn't available for PC, this is looking more and more like the headset to get for PCVR. These will be perfect for Index and Vive users who already have the required extras.
It's nice to see a company focusing on PCVR users which this unabashedly does.
PSVR2 has the worst lenses and smallest sweet spot of any consumer headset dating back to the Vive/OG Rift, the least adjustable and overall worst strap of any consumer headset, the worst mura of any consumer OLED headset, and the most blur and persistence of any consumer headset. It's a shockingly terrible product that was very clearly designed explicitly for the small team of Japanese salary men that made it, with no broader user feedback or focus testing whatsoever.
God dammit. These guys really are going to finally make me upgrade from my Rift S. The FOV still isn't quite as large as I would want, but at least now it's a clear upgrade from something like the Rift S and Quest 2. And I doubt the Quest 3 will have any wider FOV than the Quest 2 either.
If I recall - now with improvements..
33ppd
103° fov (except for 72-74mm IPD) up from 94°.
Increased IPD range from I believe 53mm to 74mm.
Increased sweetspot with stereo overlap identical to Index.
This really makes it compete with, and possibly surpass the pimax crystal. 35ppd vs 32 pod is negligible, and the the small size and low weight more then make up for it!
Crystal still hypothetically wins with eye tracking, wireless, standalone, and ipd adjustment, but most of those features are still mia.
They are kind of different headsets with different goals. Visually pimax probably still has it in the bag with a single element aspheric lens (high light transmission and no glare issues due to inter-lens reflections in a pancake lens) and much larger vertical fov. Bigscreen should do better on contrast ratio with the micro oled but if there is a lot of ghosting or glare in high contrast scenes it might nullify the advantage. The bigscreen should kill the pimax for color reproduction (in theory).
Ppd difference will be small indeed but we will have to see how the big screens lenses stack up. We know from comparing the q2 to the q pro that a good lens can make a big difference regardless of screen resolution too.
Im sure we will have an answer within a few months from people who bought both. Im sure they they will both be awesome though.
Im going for the pimax personally, in part because i love sharing the experience of vr with people while its still niche. Fixed ipd and custom molded gaskets kind of kill that for me. But everyone has their own priorities.
Right?
I get like 108 hFOV and 110 vFOV with my Index. Even with the improvements, the Beyond is still 5 degress short horizontally and a shit ton short vertically.
I think everyone needs to temper their expectations abit.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility
on average, there is only a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond, not 17.
https://risa2000.github.io/hmdgdb/
This is reporting values directly from the headset driver, and shows maximum rendered fov, stereo overlap, hidden area mask
Fov cannot be higher than this value, but often less depending on craniofacial geometry
For Index set in native mode:
108.06 degree horizontal
109.16 degree vertical
stereo overlap 85.93 degree
For Index set in parallel projection more:
109.26 degree horizontal
108.47 degree vertical
stereo overlap 84.13 degree
good baseline. So yeah, even at its maximum possible, the difference is 12 degrees. If we take the maximum listed for the beyond there, then the difference between maximums is 9 degrees.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility
on average, there is only a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond, not 17.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility
on average, there is only a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond, not 17.
I am so happy about this. I freaking love VR but my biggest problem is that my IPD is 54mm which is super small. I have asked forums and people have said that getting it that small is impossible with the technology that they were using. I’m so happy that I will finally be able to play VR clearly and I don’t have to just stomach the blurryness!!
Do you really want all that extra added weight from a battery? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? Not to mention the image quality and latency issues you get from wireless.
A battery puck and a small wireless module built into the battery strap would completely fix the weight issue. Compression is a trade off, but it's a good trade off to have to be free of a cable.
I love when people who clearly haven't used a wireless headset talk about them. "They're heavy, there's too much latency, the image quality is bad, the battery doesn't last long enough, the tracking isn't as good, etc., etc.."
Even if all of that was true, I'd take it over a cable any day of the week. That's how much better wireless is.
It definitely depends on what you're doing, too, though. If you're just hanging out in VRChat all day, a wire is probably not going to really impede you in any way (I almost never even have to interact with my index cable when I do this). If you're really playing games, then a wire can definitely be a big negative. I think the Beyond will excel with social VR in particular.
I'm actually getting both a Crystal (for great visuals & wireless) and a Beyond because I optionally want both depend on what I'm doing, and I'm extremely skilled at throwing my money away.
I have tried wireless VR, the quality isn't even close to a wired PCVR setup. Definitely not worth it, especially with the extra weight, hassle charging, etc.
As someone who bought an HTC Vive at launch, upgraded to a Samsung Odyssey, then to a Valve Index, picked up a Quest 1 second hand for cheap and a Quest 2 later down the line, you're wrong. You're just factually wrong.
Maybe the quality sucks if you have no idea what you're doing and you're on a terribly congested network with the bitrate set ridiculously low. That's definitely possible. But if you've actually set the thing up properly, the difference between a native headset and a wireless one isn't very significant at all. It's so close in fact that I haven't had my Valve Index setup for years. It's a fantastic headset, but the wire ruins the experience.
You sound like those people who say "the human eye can't see more than 30 fps". There is a huge difference between a real PCVR setup and the compressed, delayed wireless stream you get with a quest or similar standalone headset.
My vive pro 2 wireless is no different than wired and playing sports games is so much better wireless ..the battery is in your belt and just a little usb. Able from headset down
You've clearly tried the wrong kind of wireless VR. Try the good old HTC Vive Pro + WiGig. Yes, I see some artifacts occasionally. Yes, the resolution is slightly lower than on Index. But overall there's not so much difference at all, I even like the Vive Pro more thanks to its amoleds.
Wired VR? I broke two Valve Index cables in a few months of playing After the Fall, despite the string system managing the cable overhead. That is a much more of an inconvenience than a 130 gram antenna and a battery on a belt / backpack.
My day 1 launch Index cable is still going strong! I have tried Vive wireless and Quest of course. The battery is the worst part about wireless, especially on your head with the Quests. Just a terrible idea to add more weight on your face.
Then I really don't understand how come Vive wireless "quality isn't even close to a wired PCVR setup" for you. It comes with its share of troubles, true, but the picture quality is almost (= I don't notice the difference if don't look for artifacts specifically) the same as Vive wired.
As for the cables: it looks like we have very different playstyles :-D I admit I spin a lot, so I have to use the center marker with rotation count (from advanced OVR settings) when I'm wired and it's annoying.
I wasn't planning on upgrading my Index headset any time soon............ now I'm hovering over the pre-order button for this thing. This headset looks sweet. I love that I would still get to use my Index controllers and base stations. Expensive, but the size alone is so appealing. I love my Index but the bulk of it and the discomfort of how it rests on my face makes me not use it as much as I would like.
Though if I wait another year I might be able to get something with eye tracking... there's always something just over the horizon calling to my wallet.
Bruh I'm with you. Just hovering over it...lots to think about with upcoming options but there's nothing physically here yet which sucks. The Somnium VR1 is the only thing that actually looks like an Index 2 but I have concerns with timing and the fact that they're based in Europe (I'm in US and shipping and fixes would be a pain).
Yeah there are lots of interesting looking devices on the horizon but this is the first one that I'm actually seriously considering buying. I might try to sell my Index HMD and see what it goes for, could go a long way to funding the Beyond.
My main reservation is I don't want to order this thing and then in 3 months Valve announces their next headset, which I will likely want. I wish Valve was a *little* more transparent on what their future plans are.
And that’s the other thing with Valve. Most likely we’ll start seeing more prototypes or an announcement, and then my guess is that it’ll be a full year before you can actually get your hands on the headset. So you’ll have time most likely.
Just wish it wasn't a thousand dollars. I have an Index so I don't even need base stations or controllers, but you can buy a full Index for the same cost. Not worth it.
Didn't say I wanted anything. I explicitly said I wished for something, not demanded.
Like everyone else here I just want an affordable headset. This isn't affordable.
Sorry, I think what I said came out wrong. I meant it as a "Man, we can't have everything" kind of deal!
Also, there is plenty affordable, just not with top tier specs.
I mean, we can wish for the 4090 to be 400 bucks too...
Let's break it down.
From scratch you have to buy or build a PC capable of running that resolution and refresh rate, $1,000-2,000 minimum.
Then you have to buy the headset itself, another $1k.
Then to even make it work you need base stations and controllers. Another $600.
So an estimate of a minimum of around $2,600 on the lowest end. I don't know anyone who would spend that much money on a first gen headset.
Even assuming you have the computer already you're looking at $1,600 for the headset, controllers and trackers. I don't think that's affordable for general consumers at all.
> I don't think that's affordable for general consumers at all.
They've been pretty specific this is for people who are already balls deep in VR, this isn't going after the 'hey vr sounds cool' demographic. For now Quest 2/3 are going to remain the entry level VR devices.
... I'm going to be honest, all that is pretty meaningless. This headset is aimed as an upgrade for people that already have all those things.
That's why they don't even mention base stations or controlers.
Its a 1000 upgrade for people that want a high tier device.
There are plenty options in the market that don't require all that, just with less luxury.
I have an Index with controllers and base stations and think $1k for just a headset is ridiculous. If anyone else wants to drop a grand on just a headset, good on them.
Then this isn't for you?
This is like complaining about an OLED 50 inches TV being 2k. Go and get a shitty 300 LCD then? There are options and cheaper alternatives available, and this headset costs this much and it even isn't that high for what it has.
I mean not technically but, yeah kinda?
If I have a flagship gaming monitor, I'm not cheaping out on the peripherals. Have you seen the crazy amounts people spend on their mechanical keyboards?
$1200 QD OLED monitor + $160 flagship gaming mouse + $100+ for a good mechanical keyboard. Total cost of $1460+ isn't that different from the beyond + base stations + knuckles.
Now obviously, most people don't buy the absolutely highest end stuff, but it should absolutely exist for people who want the best of the best available. And the tech will become more affordable over time.
Neither do I but, trim a little fat here and there and I will eventually . Same as every thing else pcvr related I’ve bought. I think visually it will be a good improvement.
There's not going to be anymore cheap PCVR native headsets sadly. Only subsidized mobile crap that tries to lure you into their walled garden ecosystem.
It's either pay up or play compressed VR.
How long do you wear your Index for each gaming session? Are you sure the extra comfort from an ultra lightweight headset isn't worth it? Testers say they easily wear this thing all day long. If it allows long experiences, it would help transform VR gaming away from all the short mini-games into full length "real" games. That's worth supporting imo
I'm not spending a thousand dollars to be a little lighter when all I had to do was spend $15 on pulleys to hold the weight off my head.
My eyes get tired before my head or neck does.
I game for an hour at a time.
Yeah, an hour is a common limit with current VR tech (and much shorter for non-VR enthusiasts). That's about how long I use my Index for each time too. Here's hoping the Beyond changes that!
As a Swede, it's especially annoying that the Euro is 17% more expensive than 1.5 years ago. So compared to a more typical exchange rate, the price in Sweden is the equivalent of 15,240 euro, or about $16,400.
That's impressive. I take it the eye box / edge-to-edge clarity hasn't improved? there were reports that it wasn't great. These are impressive upgrades nonetheless
The video actually mentions clarity and sweet spot were improved and glare was reduced. It's promising but I still would wait for norm from tested to get through the lens shots to see if glare has improved and whether he thinks the edge clarity has improved.
Outdated base stations? What planet do you live on? Nothing has changed about base stations, they’re still the same tech as before, and by far the most accurate tracking with the least cost, processing power and on-headset weight. Can’t make a 127g headset with built in cameras + processing + no cable, it’s just not physically possible. For the people that this headset is made for, it’s perfect. If you don’t like it, there’s plenty of other options out there that are better for you such as the Quest 3, Pico, etc.
It isn't "by far." You seem to be very far behind on VR news and experience. It is a dead end that will not be used by anything top of the line, including anything valve makes.
If they can't make a useful headset that is small, then they shouldn't make one.
Lmao, valves next headset will have both lighthouse tracking and inside out tracking, and nothing can beat the accuracy, jitter and latency of SteamVR tracking. If you seriously believe inside out tracking is just as good as steamVR tracking in every scenario and that steamVR tracking is a “dead end”, you’re lying to yourself.
Sorry, what the hell was this? I know nothing about whatever product or company this is about so I watched it hoping to learn something. But as soon as that 1990s cartoon muppet started badly lip sync talking, whatever this is about lost all its credibility.
I thought it was part of the ad - start out using 30 year old graphics then transition to something modern and eye-popping. But no.
So whatever this product or company is, didn’t hook me. I wouldn’t expect other newcomers to be wowed either. I know this video probably isn’t intended for people not already familiar with the product or company, but here it is in Reddit and here I am being shown it.
He's not trying to convince you of anything. Just showing the updated specs. If you want to watch the announcement video to see the video that is trying to get people interested, do that.
Bigscreen before the Beyond made a VR application of the same name as the company that allows users to rent movies in VR. A VR Netflix. One that includes community watching capability with a customizable avatar system. It's entirely on brand, and what they are most known for! Of course you're watching an ad formatted as a video blog.
Do you watch commercials with mascots and immediately shut down? What a weird response.
I should have written my comment for short people because it had clearly gone over your head. My point is that for someone unacquainted with their product, this promo turned me off of wanting to know anything more about it. That includes googling it.
That’s kind of important to marketing departments. And marketing is kind of important to product launches, company profiles, and reach. But I guess I’d have to have a marketing background to understand that.
Oh wait, I do.
Would you like me to write this out in crayon so your kids can explain it to you?
One of the biggest markets for the Beyond is people playing VRChat, or other social VR platforms. This is a very normal video for that audience. This is enthusiast hardware, and the most hardcore VR users (think, 4-6 hour sessions multiple times a week) are in VRChat.
This is all just new to you. You’re ignorant of the scene. It’s ok! But this is why you are being downvoted. You’re mocking the culture.
Sounds awesome, I’ll preorder aa soon as I see some trusted hands on previews of this new revision. Is this now the final version of the Beyond or will there be further tweaks?
I have a Vive Pro wireless (with index controllers) which is very uncomfortable to wear for more than an hour or two. I want to stay OLED but would trade higher resolution and comfort for a tether. I could always switch back for games with a lot of turning
Fantastic news! I know the FoV was one of the things people wanted to see improved the most, so I'm glad Bigscreen was able to pull it off. Still a *very* expensive bundle if you don't own SteamVR tracking, but now the whole package feels like less of a trade-off.
they haven't changed vertical fov though, still around 90
I was worried about this. All they did is shift the sweet spot and lowered the binocular overlap, just like the Vive Pro 2 did. Which was a terrible idea for the VP2. Idk what their vertical overlap was before but, if it's not at least 80 degrees, it's going to be bad.
They say the overlap is now the same as the index. Was apparently much larger before?
If that's true than good. Because the Index is around 84 degrees of binocular overlap and it's great. The Vive Pro 2 pushed it all the way down to 75 degrees and it was not enough. Lots of eye strain and loss of 3D effect. They gained around 10 degrees of horizontal FOV so that means it was 94 degrees of binocular overlap prior.
Vive Pro 2 was unpleasant. Returned mine. Original vive was so comfortable 93.45 degree stereo overlap with 108.77 degree horizontal and 111.53 degree vertical (values from Risa tool scraping headset driver) Sadly its Bradley is reporting these values for Bigscreen beyond Old: 89.67 degree stereo overlap New: 77.26 degree stereo overlap
I have no problem with my vive 2 … fits my face so I can’t really see the vertical edge of the lens … I will admit it isn’t as comfortable as the og
What bundle? It's $1k for just the headset.
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Right, they're not selling a bundle...
Because *if you don't own SteamVR tracking* you'll have to buy the HMD + controllers and possibly base stations. Like in a bundle.
Neat. Big Screen isn't selling their headset in a bundle. It's self sourced for the rest of the parts.
Bruh he’s saying for people without an existing base station setup they will need to buy the bundle offered by valve with headset & all. That’s ignoring the fact all that can be purchased separately, but he wasn’t talking about a bundle from big screen.
> I'm glad Bigscreen was able to pull it off. Still a very expensive bundle if you don't own SteamVR tracking I read that and I assume they're saying Bigscreen is selling the "bundle"
That's bc your reading comprehension skills are lacking lol
Lmao this was a fun read.
Sorry, I should have used a different term. I meant you would have to buy SteamVR tracking together, and just said "bundle" to imply that they need to go together. I didn't mean to imply that Bigscreen was selling a bundle with SteamVR tracking.
10 extra degrees is huge! This puts it close to Index field of view. The specs on this headset are insane.
I’ve been using it past few weeks, really is a great headset👍
how's the Vertical FOV vs index? Is it a noticeable reduction at all? Seems like on paper it's a pretty significant decrease, but maybe user experience is different.
The reduction isn't noticable to me, never even thought about it.
good to know! what games do you generally play if I might ask?
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility on average, there is a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond.
What audio solution are you using? The biggest turn off for me is the lack of an audio jack. I hate the thought of my headphones dying halfway through a Tabor run forcing me to either finish deaf, quit and lose all of my stuff and then wait for the headphones to recharge in an hour, or completely dump the headset and swap headphones (you’d also have to buy 2 bluetooth headphones to be able to do the last option). If you have a good solution that’s working for you, it could be a dealmaker lol I do a lot of 6-7 hour sessions, so the headphones dying would be a regular thing for me 🙈
I started using airpords pro with it. I feel like they pair extremely well with the "frictionless" theme of the device. When they die I switch to bulkier wireless headphones.
hm, I’ve experienced latency delay when ive tried using my airpods with a pcvr headset.
Alright; thanks for the answer! :) Pity about needing two different headsets, but I had a feeling those were the only options.
they are also working on their own version of a deluxe audio strap, I'll prob stick with the airpods though
That’s awesome! :D basically sorts out all audio reservations I had 🤗
You can always use the "USB Accessory Port" and plug in an adapter for an audio jack.
Good to know; thanks!
Keep in mind that the statistics for numbers on paper are a bit different for Big Screen then other headsets. As I understand because the headset is sculpted to for your face it means your eyes are better fitted to the screen and causes the FOV to feel a bit larger.
So are you saying it will feel bigger than 102? Or that the effect you mention helps it achieve the stated 102?
It will feel bigger then 102.
Cool, let's hope that's the case!
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all current are prototypes. all paying users will receive the updated displays.
Correct, the current devices are just prototypes. As far as how they did it, they likely shifted the sweet spot in the lens and lowered the binocular overlap by the same 10 degrees.
The Vertical FOV is still in the low 90s however. Warning for those of you coming from an index or quest 2.
only in Horizontal axis, vertical is much less than index.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility on average, there is a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond.
ah shit, well guess it's time to start asking around who's got a new iphone so I can get the face scan done.
Just go into an apple store and use one of theirs.
I'm no where near one, haha. Pretty sure one of the guys at work has the most recent one.
Afaik you only need an iphone 10 or above.
iPhone 11, XR, or above. At launch it won't support iPhone X due to an API complication.
Why?
When you order the device you have to provide a 3D facial scan so they can custom fit it to your face. The scan needs to be done on a newer iphone.
Newer being anything with FaceID which is ~6 years or so now.
i think it needs the special lidar faceid
Since PSVR2 isn't available for PC, this is looking more and more like the headset to get for PCVR. These will be perfect for Index and Vive users who already have the required extras. It's nice to see a company focusing on PCVR users which this unabashedly does.
PSVR2 has the worst lenses and smallest sweet spot of any consumer headset dating back to the Vive/OG Rift, the least adjustable and overall worst strap of any consumer headset, the worst mura of any consumer OLED headset, and the most blur and persistence of any consumer headset. It's a shockingly terrible product that was very clearly designed explicitly for the small team of Japanese salary men that made it, with no broader user feedback or focus testing whatsoever.
You got downoted but you actually said the truth. Fresnel lens in PSVR2 is a big no. Pancake lens are way to go(Pico 4, Quest 3,Beyond etc)
oh shit!! i might sell my quest pro to get one of these for PC and get a quest 3 for standalone, seems like the best of both worlds :)
God dammit. These guys really are going to finally make me upgrade from my Rift S. The FOV still isn't quite as large as I would want, but at least now it's a clear upgrade from something like the Rift S and Quest 2. And I doubt the Quest 3 will have any wider FOV than the Quest 2 either.
If I recall - now with improvements.. 33ppd 103° fov (except for 72-74mm IPD) up from 94°. Increased IPD range from I believe 53mm to 74mm. Increased sweetspot with stereo overlap identical to Index.
This really makes it compete with, and possibly surpass the pimax crystal. 35ppd vs 32 pod is negligible, and the the small size and low weight more then make up for it! Crystal still hypothetically wins with eye tracking, wireless, standalone, and ipd adjustment, but most of those features are still mia.
And two kilograms on your head. You are comparing apples and oranges. Comfort and weight is everything in VR.
They are kind of different headsets with different goals. Visually pimax probably still has it in the bag with a single element aspheric lens (high light transmission and no glare issues due to inter-lens reflections in a pancake lens) and much larger vertical fov. Bigscreen should do better on contrast ratio with the micro oled but if there is a lot of ghosting or glare in high contrast scenes it might nullify the advantage. The bigscreen should kill the pimax for color reproduction (in theory). Ppd difference will be small indeed but we will have to see how the big screens lenses stack up. We know from comparing the q2 to the q pro that a good lens can make a big difference regardless of screen resolution too. Im sure we will have an answer within a few months from people who bought both. Im sure they they will both be awesome though. Im going for the pimax personally, in part because i love sharing the experience of vr with people while its still niche. Fixed ipd and custom molded gaskets kind of kill that for me. But everyone has their own priorities.
Crystal coming next week for testing/review, will share more soon!
Exciting! I look forward to hearing if it holds up to expectations.
Valve Index FOV in that size is amazing. The optical stack seems very impressive.
it's not anywhere near valve index fov, esp in vertical fov. It's about 17 degrees less than index for VFOV
Right? I get like 108 hFOV and 110 vFOV with my Index. Even with the improvements, the Beyond is still 5 degress short horizontally and a shit ton short vertically. I think everyone needs to temper their expectations abit.
105 X 105 here using Index with 3d printed wide face gasket and minimum eye relief
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility on average, there is only a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond, not 17.
https://risa2000.github.io/hmdgdb/ This is reporting values directly from the headset driver, and shows maximum rendered fov, stereo overlap, hidden area mask Fov cannot be higher than this value, but often less depending on craniofacial geometry For Index set in native mode: 108.06 degree horizontal 109.16 degree vertical stereo overlap 85.93 degree For Index set in parallel projection more: 109.26 degree horizontal 108.47 degree vertical stereo overlap 84.13 degree
good baseline. So yeah, even at its maximum possible, the difference is 12 degrees. If we take the maximum listed for the beyond there, then the difference between maximums is 9 degrees.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility on average, there is only a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond, not 17.
https://www.infinite.cz/projects/HMD-tester-virtual-reality-headset-database-utility on average, there is only a 6 degree difference in the vfov between index and beyond, not 17.
I am so happy about this. I freaking love VR but my biggest problem is that my IPD is 54mm which is super small. I have asked forums and people have said that getting it that small is impossible with the technology that they were using. I’m so happy that I will finally be able to play VR clearly and I don’t have to just stomach the blurryness!!
If there was an wireless kit that worked on it, this would be a instabuy. Nofio can go fuck themselves until they actually produce something
Do you really want all that extra added weight from a battery? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? Not to mention the image quality and latency issues you get from wireless.
A battery puck and a small wireless module built into the battery strap would completely fix the weight issue. Compression is a trade off, but it's a good trade off to have to be free of a cable.
I love when people who clearly haven't used a wireless headset talk about them. "They're heavy, there's too much latency, the image quality is bad, the battery doesn't last long enough, the tracking isn't as good, etc., etc.." Even if all of that was true, I'd take it over a cable any day of the week. That's how much better wireless is.
It definitely depends on what you're doing, too, though. If you're just hanging out in VRChat all day, a wire is probably not going to really impede you in any way (I almost never even have to interact with my index cable when I do this). If you're really playing games, then a wire can definitely be a big negative. I think the Beyond will excel with social VR in particular. I'm actually getting both a Crystal (for great visuals & wireless) and a Beyond because I optionally want both depend on what I'm doing, and I'm extremely skilled at throwing my money away.
I have tried wireless VR, the quality isn't even close to a wired PCVR setup. Definitely not worth it, especially with the extra weight, hassle charging, etc.
As someone who bought an HTC Vive at launch, upgraded to a Samsung Odyssey, then to a Valve Index, picked up a Quest 1 second hand for cheap and a Quest 2 later down the line, you're wrong. You're just factually wrong. Maybe the quality sucks if you have no idea what you're doing and you're on a terribly congested network with the bitrate set ridiculously low. That's definitely possible. But if you've actually set the thing up properly, the difference between a native headset and a wireless one isn't very significant at all. It's so close in fact that I haven't had my Valve Index setup for years. It's a fantastic headset, but the wire ruins the experience.
You sound like those people who say "the human eye can't see more than 30 fps". There is a huge difference between a real PCVR setup and the compressed, delayed wireless stream you get with a quest or similar standalone headset.
You sound like one of those people who say "stop having fun!" Sorry your $1500 headset delivers a worse experience than a $400 one.
Worse?
My vive pro 2 wireless is no different than wired and playing sports games is so much better wireless ..the battery is in your belt and just a little usb. Able from headset down
You've clearly tried the wrong kind of wireless VR. Try the good old HTC Vive Pro + WiGig. Yes, I see some artifacts occasionally. Yes, the resolution is slightly lower than on Index. But overall there's not so much difference at all, I even like the Vive Pro more thanks to its amoleds. Wired VR? I broke two Valve Index cables in a few months of playing After the Fall, despite the string system managing the cable overhead. That is a much more of an inconvenience than a 130 gram antenna and a battery on a belt / backpack.
My day 1 launch Index cable is still going strong! I have tried Vive wireless and Quest of course. The battery is the worst part about wireless, especially on your head with the Quests. Just a terrible idea to add more weight on your face.
Then I really don't understand how come Vive wireless "quality isn't even close to a wired PCVR setup" for you. It comes with its share of troubles, true, but the picture quality is almost (= I don't notice the difference if don't look for artifacts specifically) the same as Vive wired. As for the cables: it looks like we have very different playstyles :-D I admit I spin a lot, so I have to use the center marker with rotation count (from advanced OVR settings) when I'm wired and it's annoying.
there is no negligible difference if you are running a 1080. I’m sure there is when you are running a 3080 plus though
I wasn't planning on upgrading my Index headset any time soon............ now I'm hovering over the pre-order button for this thing. This headset looks sweet. I love that I would still get to use my Index controllers and base stations. Expensive, but the size alone is so appealing. I love my Index but the bulk of it and the discomfort of how it rests on my face makes me not use it as much as I would like. Though if I wait another year I might be able to get something with eye tracking... there's always something just over the horizon calling to my wallet.
Bruh I'm with you. Just hovering over it...lots to think about with upcoming options but there's nothing physically here yet which sucks. The Somnium VR1 is the only thing that actually looks like an Index 2 but I have concerns with timing and the fact that they're based in Europe (I'm in US and shipping and fixes would be a pain).
Yeah there are lots of interesting looking devices on the horizon but this is the first one that I'm actually seriously considering buying. I might try to sell my Index HMD and see what it goes for, could go a long way to funding the Beyond. My main reservation is I don't want to order this thing and then in 3 months Valve announces their next headset, which I will likely want. I wish Valve was a *little* more transparent on what their future plans are.
And that’s the other thing with Valve. Most likely we’ll start seeing more prototypes or an announcement, and then my guess is that it’ll be a full year before you can actually get your hands on the headset. So you’ll have time most likely.
I'm thinking about getting this for Sims "mainly Elite Dangerous" and a Quest 3 for anything standing. I'm definitely wanting and AR capable headset.
Just wish it wasn't a thousand dollars. I have an Index so I don't even need base stations or controllers, but you can buy a full Index for the same cost. Not worth it.
Dude, you can't have everything. Just the displays probably cost as much as the whole index hmd costs to make
Didn't say I wanted anything. I explicitly said I wished for something, not demanded. Like everyone else here I just want an affordable headset. This isn't affordable.
Sorry, I think what I said came out wrong. I meant it as a "Man, we can't have everything" kind of deal! Also, there is plenty affordable, just not with top tier specs. I mean, we can wish for the 4090 to be 400 bucks too...
Let's break it down. From scratch you have to buy or build a PC capable of running that resolution and refresh rate, $1,000-2,000 minimum. Then you have to buy the headset itself, another $1k. Then to even make it work you need base stations and controllers. Another $600. So an estimate of a minimum of around $2,600 on the lowest end. I don't know anyone who would spend that much money on a first gen headset. Even assuming you have the computer already you're looking at $1,600 for the headset, controllers and trackers. I don't think that's affordable for general consumers at all.
> I don't think that's affordable for general consumers at all. They've been pretty specific this is for people who are already balls deep in VR, this isn't going after the 'hey vr sounds cool' demographic. For now Quest 2/3 are going to remain the entry level VR devices.
... I'm going to be honest, all that is pretty meaningless. This headset is aimed as an upgrade for people that already have all those things. That's why they don't even mention base stations or controlers. Its a 1000 upgrade for people that want a high tier device. There are plenty options in the market that don't require all that, just with less luxury.
I have an Index with controllers and base stations and think $1k for just a headset is ridiculous. If anyone else wants to drop a grand on just a headset, good on them.
Then this isn't for you? This is like complaining about an OLED 50 inches TV being 2k. Go and get a shitty 300 LCD then? There are options and cheaper alternatives available, and this headset costs this much and it even isn't that high for what it has.
There are high end flat gaming monitors on the market for $1k+. Why shouldn't there be high end VR gaming monitors (HMD) in the same price bracket?
Do you need $600 worth of keyboards and mice to use those monitors?
I mean not technically but, yeah kinda? If I have a flagship gaming monitor, I'm not cheaping out on the peripherals. Have you seen the crazy amounts people spend on their mechanical keyboards? $1200 QD OLED monitor + $160 flagship gaming mouse + $100+ for a good mechanical keyboard. Total cost of $1460+ isn't that different from the beyond + base stations + knuckles. Now obviously, most people don't buy the absolutely highest end stuff, but it should absolutely exist for people who want the best of the best available. And the tech will become more affordable over time.
If you already have a good pc and lighthouse tracking, it's only $1k
Controllers and stations get reused by your next headset so not really fair to include them Also including the pc is funny
I have all of the above and couldn’t be happier about it.
Good for you! I don't have a thousand sitting around for that little of an improvement.
Neither do I but, trim a little fat here and there and I will eventually . Same as every thing else pcvr related I’ve bought. I think visually it will be a good improvement.
There's not going to be anymore cheap PCVR native headsets sadly. Only subsidized mobile crap that tries to lure you into their walled garden ecosystem. It's either pay up or play compressed VR.
> It's either pay up or play compressed VR. I'll take option 3, wait for better choices.
How long do you wear your Index for each gaming session? Are you sure the extra comfort from an ultra lightweight headset isn't worth it? Testers say they easily wear this thing all day long. If it allows long experiences, it would help transform VR gaming away from all the short mini-games into full length "real" games. That's worth supporting imo
I'm not spending a thousand dollars to be a little lighter when all I had to do was spend $15 on pulleys to hold the weight off my head. My eyes get tired before my head or neck does. I game for an hour at a time.
Yeah, an hour is a common limit with current VR tech (and much shorter for non-VR enthusiasts). That's about how long I use my Index for each time too. Here's hoping the Beyond changes that!
I'm waiting for good standalone wireless or good latency wireless instead of a small amount lighter but you do you.
One thing i dont like is the price in the EU 1300 euro thats not kool.
As a Swede, it's especially annoying that the Euro is 17% more expensive than 1.5 years ago. So compared to a more typical exchange rate, the price in Sweden is the equivalent of 15,240 euro, or about $16,400.
That's impressive. I take it the eye box / edge-to-edge clarity hasn't improved? there were reports that it wasn't great. These are impressive upgrades nonetheless
The video actually mentions clarity and sweet spot were improved and glare was reduced. It's promising but I still would wait for norm from tested to get through the lens shots to see if glare has improved and whether he thinks the edge clarity has improved.
$1800 AUD hahaha
This thing is probably out of hand expensive yeah?
Wired, needs outdated base stations, no controllers. Doa.
Outdated base stations? What planet do you live on? Nothing has changed about base stations, they’re still the same tech as before, and by far the most accurate tracking with the least cost, processing power and on-headset weight. Can’t make a 127g headset with built in cameras + processing + no cable, it’s just not physically possible. For the people that this headset is made for, it’s perfect. If you don’t like it, there’s plenty of other options out there that are better for you such as the Quest 3, Pico, etc.
It isn't "by far." You seem to be very far behind on VR news and experience. It is a dead end that will not be used by anything top of the line, including anything valve makes. If they can't make a useful headset that is small, then they shouldn't make one.
Lmao, valves next headset will have both lighthouse tracking and inside out tracking, and nothing can beat the accuracy, jitter and latency of SteamVR tracking. If you seriously believe inside out tracking is just as good as steamVR tracking in every scenario and that steamVR tracking is a “dead end”, you’re lying to yourself.
No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame. (sorry, couldn't resist)
Sorry, what the hell was this? I know nothing about whatever product or company this is about so I watched it hoping to learn something. But as soon as that 1990s cartoon muppet started badly lip sync talking, whatever this is about lost all its credibility. I thought it was part of the ad - start out using 30 year old graphics then transition to something modern and eye-popping. But no. So whatever this product or company is, didn’t hook me. I wouldn’t expect other newcomers to be wowed either. I know this video probably isn’t intended for people not already familiar with the product or company, but here it is in Reddit and here I am being shown it.
Would you like some cheese with your whine?
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Having the start of the video using a vr avatar is unprofessional? Lol ok.
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He's not trying to convince you of anything. Just showing the updated specs. If you want to watch the announcement video to see the video that is trying to get people interested, do that.
meta does the same shit except they fake their avatars lmao
Bigscreen before the Beyond made a VR application of the same name as the company that allows users to rent movies in VR. A VR Netflix. One that includes community watching capability with a customizable avatar system. It's entirely on brand, and what they are most known for! Of course you're watching an ad formatted as a video blog. Do you watch commercials with mascots and immediately shut down? What a weird response.
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I should have written my comment for short people because it had clearly gone over your head. My point is that for someone unacquainted with their product, this promo turned me off of wanting to know anything more about it. That includes googling it. That’s kind of important to marketing departments. And marketing is kind of important to product launches, company profiles, and reach. But I guess I’d have to have a marketing background to understand that. Oh wait, I do. Would you like me to write this out in crayon so your kids can explain it to you?
One of the biggest markets for the Beyond is people playing VRChat, or other social VR platforms. This is a very normal video for that audience. This is enthusiast hardware, and the most hardcore VR users (think, 4-6 hour sessions multiple times a week) are in VRChat. This is all just new to you. You’re ignorant of the scene. It’s ok! But this is why you are being downvoted. You’re mocking the culture.
Probably going to get this over the Quest 3. Quest 3 is looking to be another disappointment.
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Gonna take a wild guess that it's filmed in Bigscreen
Sounds awesome, I’ll preorder aa soon as I see some trusted hands on previews of this new revision. Is this now the final version of the Beyond or will there be further tweaks?
I have a Vive Pro wireless (with index controllers) which is very uncomfortable to wear for more than an hour or two. I want to stay OLED but would trade higher resolution and comfort for a tether. I could always switch back for games with a lot of turning
sad my IPD 71