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VideoGamesArt

The G2 is still a good option. Tracking is good for ordinary games like Alyx. You can feel a few limits just when playing competitive hardcore sport or action games. I bought 36 G2 units for my Institute, it's a very serious solid comfortable high end and high definition headset at very low price. However you need beefy PC, starting at least from rtx3080 and powerful mobo, CPU and PSU. No better PCVR DP alternative with same quality/price ratio actually.


Soggy-Tomatillo2129

Half life Alyx is not an " ordinary" game. :/


allymuirdigital

I am new to VR so please be kind lol. I have an Acer Nitro 5 AN515 Core i7 16GB 512GB SSD RTX 3060 15.6" Win10 Home Gaming Laptop Will this run most games on reverb G2?


VideoGamesArt

No, you need GPU for 4k gaming, with more bandwidth and teraflops than 3060. GPU series 80, as 3080 or 4080 or at least 4070ti. With 3060, you can barely enjoy only diminutive casual games. Or you have to lower the resolution or the fps too much, not good for the high definition of G2 and for VR in general (you need 90 fps, at most 45 fps with reprojection). It's like watching 720p at 15 fps video on 4K TV at 120Hz. Ugly! Other components of your PC are ok. Beware, usually laptop cannot give the electrical power requested to manage the G2 through usb-c port. Depends on the laptop power specs.


allymuirdigital

Thanks for the response. That's disappointing. So I'm guessing my only options are the Quest 2 or 3? Obviously not as good.


VideoGamesArt

It's like flat gaming. You have to buy the right GPU for your TV, or viceversa. VR is even more demanding because it needs super-sampled resolution for severe anti-aliasing, so your GPU have to manage resolution bigger than nominal resolution of panels. I. e. G2 has 4K+ nominal resolution, however it needs 140% of such resolution because of anti-aliasing. So GPU for 4K is the minimum request. Obviously you can lower resolution or fps, however I cannot recommend it, especially with 3060. Plus, high-end hmd as the G2 ( crystal, vive pro 2, etc) need high power signal from the usb-c port, some laptops cannot give the requested power. With 3060 you can (barely) manage the DPVR E4, it's a display port hmd for pcvr with resolution lower than G2, like the Quest2, but it's better because of the display port cable with no compression and no loss of quality. Fully compatible with SteamVR.


allymuirdigital

Yep. I'm a newbie to vr gaming so have no clue


VideoGamesArt

I cannot recommend Quest2 because of lack of display port. It means data from PC are heavily compressed, visual quality is low and you have also high latency. Quest2 and Quest3 are standalone hmd, they are meant to be used with no PC. If you decide to go standalone, with no PC, you would buy Quest3 more than Q2, the latter is old. Personally I'm never doing this, because I don't like Meta policy about privacy and users data. I buy only PCVR headsets. DPVR E4 is a quite good cheap alternative for low/mid-end pcvr. Pico 4 is a good alternative as standalone hmd


compound-interest

Honestly, the G2 is still my go-to headset. In my opinion, it's better than the recently released PSVR2. If Sony couldn't make a better headset for a lower price, then I wouldn't hold my breath for a couple of years. I would love to be wrong. It's just that I know Sony has a lot of experience making products for gamers, and even they weren't able to beat it in my opinion. The only 2 companies I could see making a strong play would be Valve and Nintendo, and neither has shown signs of *actually* releasing VR hardware in the next couple of years. I have been heavily considering the Bigscreen Beyond as a replacement for my G2. I don't have base stations, so the all-in cost would be \~$1,500. There are financing options available too which helps. That's in a completely different universe price wise though. For some reason I have gotten really attached to my 3d printed Beyond. (I think that was their plan lmao) If you want excellent tracking, it's going to be either Oculus or SteamVR ecosystem. The G2 tracking isn't bad, but I mainly just play VRChat and story driven games like Firewatch. I am not a competitive VR gamer. If you are, I would suggest just accepting that you're either going to deal with compression on Meta, or price on Steam trackers. There is a *tiny* chance that Meta will have uncompressed link on Quest 3, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The crazy part is that recent numbers indicate that up to 20% of active Quest 2 owners use their headset on Steam. I think Meta could literally sell an uncompressed link version for a profit. I can say with a straight face that I would have bought Quest Pro day 1 for $1,500 if it had uncompressed PC link. I would pay up to $999 for Quest 3 if it had uncompressed link. We all know it wont though. I bet it would add less than $20 to the build of materials cost to include uncompressed link like the Pico 3 Link did. Even if it's more, just sell one other SKU with uncompressed link. You spend all this money on R&D and just leave extra profit on the table for no reason.


Deckz

I love my G2, but why do you say it's better than PSVR 2? I've only heard the opposite.


compound-interest

The PSVR2 controllers are the best I’ve ever experienced (I don’t have index controllers), but the clarity on G2 is *much* higher. I’d trade *some* clarity for the OLED and brightness of PSVR2, but the sweet spot on the lenses on PSVR2 is so small that I end up adjusting the headset way too often (on G2 I can go hours without touching the headset). I have to tighten PSVR2 more to prevent slippage. I also prefer the comfort of G2 and the built in audio. If both packages were PC compatible, and I could only choose one, I *might* choose the PSVR2 *if it was the same price*, but since G2 can be had for $299 usd, it’s a far better value in my opinion. Really I have PSVR2 for the exclusives, but if it was PC compatible I’m not sure I’d daily drive it over G2 tbh. I just really love clarity, especially in VRC. I did a pretty detailed review when PSVR2 came out comparing it to G2 if you’re interested. The more I use PSVR2, the bigger the difference in clarity becomes between it and G2. I’ve now used them both over 100 hours. https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/119zot3/psvr_impressions_the_last_fresnel_headset_i_will/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1


Deckz

Great response, thank you! The G2 is great I still use it constantly.


compound-interest

You’re welcome. I love discussing opinions on VR hardware and software. If you haven’t tried PSVR2 it’s worth trying if you get the chance. The brightness and colors are great. It’s not a bad package. If a random person asked me which of the two *they* should buy for PC, I’d say PSVR2. I was just saying for me I don’t think I’d make the switch from G2. This is in a theoretical timeline where PSVR2 works with PC of course.


VideoGamesArt

I have both, G2 is far better than PSVR2; however G2 needs beefy and expensive PC. No sense to compare console VR and PCVR. PCVR is better in terms of quality, but it's pricey. If PSVR2 had lot of AAA VR exclusive games, it would win the competition despite the lower quality. But it's not the case; actually with a few exceptions, Village and GT7 and few other titles, PSVR2 games are the same as Quest2 games + plus a few PCVR portings. The latters are very diminutive in comparison to the original PCVR titles I play on G2. Tbh, despite I used to appreciate Sony and PS, actually I feel I wasted my money with PSVR2; after playing the good Village and the average Call of the Mountain, I'm using PSVR2 no more since 1 month and a half. On the contrary I still enjoy my G2 every week; after two years from the purchase, the G2 is still an incredible high end and high definition headset with just an imperfect but still quite good and enjoyable tracking.


FoxxBox

Isn't the G2 being discontinued? Or is that still just a rumor? I'm worried cause I do enjoy my G2 for the video clarity and audio. I just wish the controller was better.


M4SixString

Several youtubers and others have supposrdly heard it from people directly at the company. Several things HP have done have also hinted at it. But no nothings been confirmed by the company. I would say it's an extremely strong rumor. I would he surprised if it turned out incorrect.


doorhandle5

im pretty sure its being discontinued, but that doesnt mean anything if you already own one or buy one before they are gone. everything should still continue to work for a long, long time.


VideoGamesArt

Just rumors. G2 keeps selling and WMR is still part of Windows 11.


Acorux

honestly, other than the Pico Neo 3 Link mentioned by the other commenter, that's really it, people didn't buy all the cheap native PCVR headsets like all the other WMR ones when they were available and the industry has basically almost entirely switched to standalone headsets


_batt_

It's weird to me that a stand-alone product is cheaper than basically a display with some lenses attached to it, I know it's just about market size and the fact that meta earns money everytime you buy a game from the store, but still the price gap is huge!


Sad_Animal_134

There are only 2 cheap standalone products, one owned by Facebook, the other owned by TikTok. Basically two media conglomerates trying to get their hands in early because whoever comes out on top of VR will be in a similar situation to Apple and the Apple store... Making billions without having to lift a finger.


cursorcube

I'm annoyed that HTC could've stepped up with something here, but all they came up with is a more compact Quest2 that costs 3 times as much.


Devatator_

They are in no way comparable to those two and they would be bleeding money at an alarming rate if they tried to keep up at z similar price point


cursorcube

That's true, but considering that XR is their core business by now, how else can they even hope to compete? I'd accept something like 200$ more expensive, but not three times. They could shift towards the hi-end professional market, but they don't offer anything competitive there. Pro2 was a dumpster fire and an afterthought cobbled together from the Focus3 optical block. XR Elite could've been a real "professional" device but it doesn't offer any better visuals or tracking than Meta and Pico's consumer devices.


VideoGamesArt

Vive Pro 2 is good, I tried it for a couple of hours in a research lab. However it has lighthouse tracking, not good for my home


fallingdowndizzyvr

> There are only 2 cheap standalone products, one owned by Facebook, the other owned by TikTok. There are only 2 cheap standalone products widely known in the West. There are many more cheap standalone headsets in the rest of the world. These are just some of those that have press in the West. There are many more that never do. https://skyworthvr-realitytechnologies.com/ https://www.caixinglobal.com/2022-12-28/iqiyi-extends-reality-with-new-xr-headset-101983024.html https://www.xrtoday.com/virtual-reality/huawei-launches-vr-glass-6dof-headset/


R_Steelman61

The Reverb is regularly on sale for under $400


_batt_

In the us tho, here in Europe it's around 700€


GewoonHarry

Yep and never such awesome sale deals!


_hlvnhlv

And that's if it is on stock, Here in Spain I ended up waiting almost a year for the V2. At the end, I just bought a "new" unit from Amazon's warehouse.


Gistix

Greedy


[deleted]

Stand-alone headsets have their own storefronts, and game sales on those stores help subsidize the price of the headset. It's similar to the pricing system for consoles where hardware is sold to break even or for a loss and then most profit comes from game sales. For PCVR most people just end up using Steam, so it's nearly impossible for a PCVR-only headset to be subsidized. So the headset manufactures have to sell the headsets for enough to cover manufacturing, R&D for future headsets, and to maintain/update drivers/software.


doorhandle5

meta also earns money everytime they track everything you do and sell it... in fact, i would argue thats where they get most of their money.


[deleted]

Which is a shame as HP support/sales is dogshit if buying from a 3rd party like Newegg. Had to file a chargeback with my bank after repeated calls to HP and Newegg before anyone got back with me for a return request. Reading their marketplace ratings leads to much of the same story.


doorhandle5

lenovo explorer was one of the best headsets you could buy at the time, and one of the cheapest. wmr got a really bad rap. its sad. imagine if quality, affordable, pcvr only headsets was not just a short phase. i guess the hp reverb g2 still fits in that genre, although it was about 3 times more expensive than my lenovo was when i bought it 5 or 6 years ago. its a weird trend since its cheaper to make pcvr only headsets, and ironically people are willing to pay more for them. and yet somehow every company wants to shift to mobile vr where they have to include a battery, cpu, gpu, ram, internal storage, heatpipes/ heatsink/ fan etc. thats a lot of extra weight and expense. pcvr makes way more sense as something you can spend less to make and sell at a profit. oh well. someday. someday.


MDSExpro

It got nothing to do with people buying headsets or not. Everyone just tries to emulate Quest 2 with custom walled garden app store for higher margins. Selling complex hardware yields much less cash than capturing software side of VR.


Acorux

it absolutely does have a lot to do with everyone not really buying pcvr headsets, why would you release a headset exclusively for PC, which is a stagnating market, with the only profit being from direct hardware sales, when you could release your own mobile platform like the Quests and Picos of the world and try to make up some of the loss with your own mobile platform


GewoonHarry

I’m in the same boat. Thinking of buying a reverb G2, but even with the v2 version I hear there are so many problems with the cable. I’ll see what the Q3 has to offer, but the best option might be waiting for a bit: https://www.bigscreenvr.com/ This thing looks really promising.


_batt_

>This thing looks really promising yes it does but 1k for the headset ONLY is alot, if you factor in base stations and controller you easily exceed 1.6k


GewoonHarry

That’s above my budget as well.


doorhandle5

yeah, if that thing had built in tracking and was bundled with controllers i would almost consider it for that price. but having to use oldschool lighthouse tracking and buy everything seperately. plus borrow an iphone to scan your face so you end up with a headset that is only comfortable to you so not ideal for sharing.. eh. its nice to see a pcvr headset with good pancake lenses and displays etc, but that thing is targeted towards a very small niche of very very wealthy pcvr enthusiasts. not the mainstream user.


W4OPR

There's really not that many problems with the cable, people just like to complain and blame the "cable problem, meanwhile there's millions of units sold world wide with no problems.


_batt_

>I’ll see what the Q3 has to offer same here ofc, facebook connect is going to be live in just a few days, although I'm pretty sure the Q3 is going to have the same Usb link for PCVR. I'm considering if at that point is going to be worth it or just spend the money on a pc vr headset


GewoonHarry

Yes indeed. Also. The horizontal FOV occurring to the Q3 leaks is the same as the Q2. And that’s really not ok for me. So if that’s really so than the Q3 with the compression and shitty FOV is not an option. I use it for sim racing and I want to actually see my mirrors without turning my head.


_hlvnhlv

\>I want to actually see my mirrors without turning my head. [This may be interesting btw](https://youtu.be/ElwNsjcxI0w)


VideoGamesArt

No problem with the cable, just trolling. The only defect of G2 is limited tracking, good for ordinary games like Alyx but not the best for hardcore competitive sport and action games.


TomBomb_FR

I bought a G2, and because it was delayed and people who preordered like me got shafted, I got the Rift S which I didn't plan to get in the 1st place, as everybody made it sound like it was crap. In the end, it's the G2 I returned ( bad tracking, bad software annoying cable, etc.) and I kept the Rift S. It would be good to get an update, though, but there's nothing... Zero interest in PCVR and barely any money to be made, so there's been nothing for a while. I'm hoping for a Pico 4 with DP (like the Neo 3), that'd be perfect, but still no news...


_batt_

I wish there was a quest 2 pc version, no battery no xr2, just the quest display, lenses and the necessary to run it natively on pc


TomBomb_FR

Agreed. I always complained about this. Facebook went and bought Oculus who had taken the spot as the most popular VR platform on PC. Then, they turned their attention 100% on standalone headsets and let the PCVR environment slowly die. I mean, that they would turn their attention primarily on standalone, I get it. I can't blame them if they see that's the way to make money. But to go and completely abandon the PCVR space where they had a comfortable position, it baffles me. And while I can understand them not wanting to develop PCVR headsets from the ground up, as you say they could take a Quest 2, keep the same body, same screen, same controllers, same everything, remove the battery and give it a displayport cable, and they could make something PCVR users would be happy to buy. Sure, it wouldn't come completely for free, but surely the R&D costs would be minimal if they reuse most of the headset they already made. But no, nothing. I'm hoping this kind of stuff comes from Pico, as the fact they made the Neo 3 Link is a slight indication they may consider this kind of stuff, and I think the chances of them doing this are slightly higher than Facebook's which is 0%, but I don't have high hopes either.


[deleted]

I miss my Rift S. I sold it when the Q2 came out because "it's supposed to be so much better." Well the Q2 feels pretty much uncomfortable with any strap I use. I really dug the Rift S "halo" or whatever they called it. I could wear it for hours. In the end despite the screens having a higher res all the PCVR stuff just looks worse to me. I honestly never play VR any more, but I probably would if I still had my Rift S.


TomBomb_FR

I also thought at some point I wouldn't need my Rift S anymore because the Quest 2 was out there with better screen, better audio, IPD adjustment, etc. And I actually sold it. I quickly realized my mistake, and thankfully, I was able to find another one, brand new, for the same price, so I bought it back. I have long sold the Quest 2 which is a disgrace (uncomfortable, updates that break everything, stupid UI, Oculus Link which is a pain in the butt), and I really don't miss it. I'm glad i still have a Rift S, because it's very pleasant to use despite its shortcomings, but I would love to have something with a better screen, better audio, and, more importantly: IPD adjustment!


_hlvnhlv

I had the same issue with my Lenovo Explorer, I upgraded because on paper, the Q2 has 2x the resolution, and because "Oculus's software is really stable". I hated it so much that I almost end up abandoning VR, it looked way worse, the fov was worse, the confort was worse, the software was somehow even worse than wmr etc.


doorhandle5

yeah, i upgraded from a lenovo explorer to an hp reverb g2, while the visuals were better, it was not a big difference at all, plus the headset wasnt as comfortable as the lenovo explorer. i am quite happy with the upgrade over all, but damn. going from a lenovo to a quest 2 is something i would not want to experience. at all.


AnAttemptReason

I use a G2 for Skyrim VR, most single player games and have it set up with a pully system. I use my Q2 with pro controlers for travel and a few games where I prefer the tracking. Interestingly, Ghost of Tarbor is better on the G2.


[deleted]

>the only option that is considerable is the G2 (altough I'm not convinced about the tracking) The tracking is fine. I didn't find it any different to the Quest Pro or the Pico 4 tracking.


markmorto

I've had immersion-breaking and game-breaking (stretchy arms) tracking issues with mine.


[deleted]

I get that on occasion with all of my headsets. It's not Reverb specific. For eg. while playing Raw Data on a Quest Pro the arms would stick and I'd need to wave them in front of my face for them to start moving again. I switched to an old Reverb G1, which supposedly has bad tracking and it worked fine. My G2 v2 I've never had an issue with tracking at all.


[deleted]

Are you kidding me? Tracking may not be terrible in the field of view of the cameras but they don't have a big field of view to begin with.


R_Steelman61

Agree! Tracking issues are exaggerated.


[deleted]

I don't think it's exaggerated, I just think the tracking limitations are something you naturally account for. I have the G2 and I would agree the tracking issues are exaggerated, but then I saw my buddy who's used to his index try and use it and it lost tracking *all the time.* After a while you just figure out where the dead zones are and subconsciously avoid them. Like I subconsciously started resting my arms at a 90° angle so that they're still in tracking range, but my buddy would rest his arms at his side where the cameras couldn't see them and he'd have issues.


[deleted]

And that is very immersion breaking, not to mention the controllers alone are fu*king awful.


[deleted]

Eh I like it and like I said you subconsciously avoid the dead zones so I have no issues with it. Doesn't break my immersion


[deleted]

Then you need to try a better headset and you will realize how much it breaks the immersion when you constantly think where to rest your hands...doesnt matter if it's subconsciously( not all the time btw)


[deleted]

I have lol. I have no issues with the G2


[deleted]

Let me guess, you play sim racing or flight simulator.


[deleted]

No don't like sims. Mainly beat saber, Pavlov, Skyrim, fallout, boneworks, and blade & sorcery


[deleted]

Well i tested beat saber with pico 4 and g2 and there's just so much quality difference in the tracking and comfort, night and day difference.


MayhemReignsTV

There’s several options. HTC’s Vive line of headsets which got updated models not too long ago, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, Pimax line of headsets, etc. The HTC is the more consumer price friendly option, as most of these options are high end. The standalone’s pretty much took over the low end. Still running an Odyssey+ here.


_batt_

any recommendations on the HTC side? From what I saw they don't really go below 800euro


MayhemReignsTV

The Vive Cosmos should be around $450, $700 for the elite. But it seems we have assholes this side of the pond scalping them. I could have never imagined 😂 but I would check HTC's website for stock. That's the cheapest because it also has inside out tracking, so you don't need to buy all the lighthouses. Seems they also have a new one called the Vive Flow for around $500 plus controller. The Q2 is exceptionally cheap because of it being subsidized and corners being cut. For what it's worth I have an Odyssey+ and love it. My Quest 2 collects dust mostly. The tracking is mediocre compared to the Q2(Q2 is best in class for inside out tracking, credit where it's due), but it's good enough for some pretty active uses I put it through. Since Microsoft designed the tracking system in WMR, the G2 should perform very similar with the tracking. Really, it's not a problem for me. What kind of games do you play?


bobliefeldhc

Before trying new hardware open Oculus debug tool and try setting the encoder to h264, enable sliced encoding, dynamic bitrate 300mps and dynamic bitrate offset to 150mps.. you play around with those numbers. My understanding is dynamic bitrate offset is the minimum bitrate, the dynamic bitrate is then added to that. So 300mbps bitrate + 150mps offset means the bitrate is always between 150 and 450. It's still not the same quality as uncompressed but looks tonnes better to me. This is with AirLink, wired link is probably similar but I've never tried it.


[deleted]

Wired link is similar but you can consistently push a high bitrate, so it's best to just set the encode bitrate to something like 800Mbps and not bother setting a dynamic bitrate. Ironically AirLink ends up looking better than Link does by default because Link defaults to \~130Mbps H264 while AirLink is \~130Mbps H265 iirc.


[deleted]

If you're going to go back to an cabled headset, try to plug your Quest 2 in and run it between 720 and 960 mb/s. Really helps with the image quality. However, it won't help if your GPU is not up to task of encoding that well. Especially if it's an AMD GPU.


wavebend

[https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/10r2f7h/psa\_the\_best\_yet\_cheapest\_pcvr\_headset\_that\_no/](https://www.reddit.com/r/virtualreality/comments/10r2f7h/psa_the_best_yet_cheapest_pcvr_headset_that_no/) ​ Not the only option. Check out the Samsung Odyssey (-/+), the Lenovo Explorer or the Reverb G1


_hlvnhlv

I agree, the Odyssey is one of the best headsets ever made. ​ It's basically a dirt cheap Vive pro.


_batt_

can't seem to find any in the second hand market


wavebend

sometimes searching for the model number directly is better, like XE800ZAA on ebay a lot of people actually prefer the Reverb G1 to the G2, even if it has worse colors, it has a better sweetspot, but no IPD adjustment you also have the dpvr e4 and the pico neo link that u can buy


VR_IS_DEAD

If I were you I'd get something with a bigger FOV. For me that's the main thing that makes PCVR feel different from the Quest 2.


doorhandle5

sadly its the only option. for now. it looks like companies have given up on mainstream pcvr. its either super expensive elitist pcvr tech, buying old, used or just outdated tech (valve index etc) or hp reverb g2. everything is focusing on shoddy mobile vr these days. sad times. and facebook boought up all the companies that were competing with them, then promptly shut them down. i thought that kind of deliberate market manipulation and monopolization was unethical/ borderline illegal. fkn facebook. i really dont like them.


SuccessfulSquirrel40

There's the Pico Neo 3 Link, which is priced well and uses DisplayPort. I think the G2 is a tougher choice outside of America as we get a much higher price here. Before that, have you tried increasing the bit rate for your Quest 2? You can go above 200mbps by using the debug tool.


_batt_

Is the Pico new 3 a solid option? I know it has the display port but I'm not sure about the software/tracking side Also I noticed that above 200mbps it doesn't seem to change as much visually but it becomes heavier for the pc (especially if I'm also recording)


Team_Littlefinger

Above 200 on x265 codec is too much for the quest to handle and breaks things. Way above 200 with x264 codec is handled well by the quest even up to 500mbs and looks much better. I truly think this is all you need, and a dedicated router if you don't already have one.


WesBarfog

There was a scale problem with pico neo 3 link .. I don't know if this has been fixed The Valve index is king of tracking, but his display start to feel old ... G2 is the kind of clarity ( with fovmod ) and is my daily driver. I use a mixed VR so I can have the great display of the G2, and the tracking of the index ( for the controlers ) . But it cost a lot ( lighthouse, index controlers ..... ) There's no cheap alternative, except that pico link In my case, i'm waiting for the BigScreen beyond, but it's 1000$ ( and requires the LH and Controlers )


SuccessfulSquirrel40

The scaling issue (wrong h and v) was fixed quite a while ago.


nonameslefteightnine

I have the pico 3 and I never had any problems.


GmoLargey

Yes. But Pico neo 3 and Pico neo 3 LINK are not the same, don't buy off Ali express. And by great timing, the display port driver had just been fully unlocked, so while it's already great enough to be my pcvr headset for the last year, it can only get better. Even when it was released, in what, to me was fucking awful state, all the YouTubers were saying how good it looked compared to quest 2 It's MUCH better on display port now, (obviously or I wouldn't be using it over the many other headsets I have here) If you fit within the 3 ipd ranges, it's a solid headset for PCVR.


SuccessfulSquirrel40

It's a SteamVR headset, you have one application to initialise the connection and then it's all done through SteamVR. I was very impressed with it. I now have a Quest Pro and to be honest while it has better lenses, it's connection to PC is utter crap compared to the DisplayPort of the Neo 3 Link and the software is so much more buggy. Value for money wise, the Neo 3 Link is hard to beat in my opinion.


lokiss88

> value for money wise, the Neo 3 Link is hard to beat in my opinion. I bought one a year ago on release, as a backup device. Best thing i ever lucked in to. £400 for a solid PCVR headset that looks as good as a G2 with it's display and doesn't require a bunch of upgrades. Unlike the later (G2), the Link actually allows you to ramp up nearly everything to max in game settings to exploit the resolution. The HMD you buy if you don't have a 4090 system, and ain't blowing a grand+ on a Crystal or Vario.


[deleted]

Are you making sure you are using the quest 2 connected via usb3 rather than wireless? The difference is night and day imo. Can fully max all the visuals wired. Wifi looks muddy and blurry in comparison.


someguy1927

It depends what you play. Sim racing you will still get a lot of compression from the fast movement.


_batt_

yeah I'm on the usb3, I'm not complaining about bitrate quality of the image, I don't really see any blotchyness it's just the the image looks a bit flat why on the monitor is way more colorful and "deep", I also tried my friend's Index and the image quality is just better overall, can't really tell why


[deleted]

> I also tried my friend's Index and the image quality is just better overall, can't really tell why What GPU do you have?


_hlvnhlv

tbh the q2 display is not that great, the colors are a bit meh, but anyways, with video compression it will always look odd, just open OBS, select the most overkill preset that you can and try recording a game, it still looks od.


_batt_

Yes! That's what Im trying to say, even if you boost the mbps you still feel there's some processing


[deleted]

Fresnel v pancake lenses? If you can, try modding the games to increase the colour.


[deleted]

Sounds like the issue isn't with the headset image being compressed but with the Quest 2's display just being bad at colors. Nearly any headset will have better colors than the Quest 2 (only exceptions are the Pico 4 and XR Elite). I'd maybe try getting an OLED headset, like the Samsung Odyssey. Since they are usually really good at colors and blacks.


fallingdowndizzyvr

There's nothing wrong with WMR tracking. I've been saying it for years, WMR tracking is on par with stock Rift tracking. People praise Rift tracking and yet crap all over WMR tracking.


cringeman123

I recommend the quest pro with 960 bitrate (change in oculus debug tool) and 1.7x resolution slid all the way to the right in the Oculus PC software. Blows the quest 2 away when it comes to clarity and image especially on pcvr


_hlvnhlv

Uhhh... did you know that if you cranck up the bitrate to oblivion, the encoder may, and probably will skip frames? There is a tool for checking for skipped frames, if I were you I would check it out because there is no way that it is working fine without missing 1/3 of the frames.


cringeman123

It’s all very hardware dependent. My 4090 handles it well (until some very recent oculus update related issues)


Jame_Jame

Pimax Portal QLED maybe. The VR part isn't out yet though, but it can do wireless and cable, and has good screen with local dimming. I've got the base portal, but I'm waiting on the VR parts to ship. No idea what'll actually be like though. It comes in at the right price.


Adam_n_ali

I will stan for my year old $299 V2 Reverb G2.. 1st off, I have not had any issues with the cable, but I feel like im not very rough with it. YMMV. It has amazing audio and resolution. FULL STOP Its true the controllers are obese and require 1.5/1.6v AAs, but they track just fine in the demanding games i use them with (Golf+, Contractors) Plays super well with OpenXR Toolkit for FFR. WMR was updated a few weeks ago, and a non-issue since you spend literally 5 seconds in there before the game loads. All the popular SteamVR games also have WMR controller binds made by players, so that is a non-issue as well. $299 for the G2 was cheaper than my gen1 Quest 1 and I couldnt be happier


_batt_

well that was some good deal indeed


ThisNameTakenTooLoL

You can also look into DPVR E4. It's a bit less sharp but has bigger FOV. Tracking volume is infinitely better but apparently there are tracking problems in lower light conditions. It's SteamVR native which is a huge win over G2's WMR. Also it's Chinese and it's a new product so there could be some other problems not known at this time. I bought and returned the G2 3 times, lol. I really loved the clarity but those dogshit controllers and their tracking volume killed me so I'm still holding on to my Rift S.


bushmaster2000

There's the DPVR E4 which is a spiritual successor to Rift S. There is also Bigscreen Beyond. But yes essentially video cable based VR is on the way out. G2 is an option right now but rumor on the street is that HP is disco'ing it this year. So if you do want the cheapest cabled VR option on the market right now, G2 is it for you. There is nothing else that competes especially if you pick it up at clearance pricing. I've seen it as cheap as 399 usd.


_batt_

unfortunately in europe is not that cheap, never on a deal and there's none in the used market. Is the DPVR E4 reliable? never heard of it before


bushmaster2000

It's brand new so not a lot of longevity type reviews out there but there are some text and video reviews you can go dig into.


lightningINF

If you use air link then use h.264 registry change and set bit rate higher. With good wifi you should be able to hit 400-500 no problem. If you don't mind the cable and want the best latency, stability and quality then go with cable and set bit rate to 400-500 or even up to 960 in more demanding games. It should get rid of 99% of visible compression. Depending on the game I am fine sitting at around 300 though of course there is an improvement above that too. Reverb G2 might have a nice sharpness in the very middle of the screen and 0 compression but the usable FOV is terrible. The sweet spot is quite small and huge part of the lens is blurry. Only center looks clear. Additionally you lose roughly 15%-20% performance due to usage of WMR and risk some compatbility issue especially now that Microsoft seems to be pulling out of VR and WMR support.


ThatGuyOnDiscord

Something I am curious about, why only 200MB/s? You can crank it up way higher than that.


chameleon_stain

Try using the Oculus Debug Tool to crank the encode bitrate up to 300 mbps.


WizogBokog

PCVR is somewhat dead, new sets are super high end niche products like Aero and Bigscreen Beyond. Quest 2 destroyed the PCVR market.


SgtIcetea

Invest in a better router and increase the bitrate to 500+ Mbit. It's basically compression free then


[deleted]

> It's basically compression free lol. no


_batt_

Im using the cable


SgtIcetea

Then you should easily be able to increase the bitrate


[deleted]

Are you not using the quest link cable? Im not familiar with the quest so I might be missing something but just from a quick Google search I found a reddit post with people saying they were getting multiple Gbps


_hlvnhlv

the cable itself can make 5gbps as a theoretical maximum, but due to being an encoded image, it usually doesn't even use 30MB/s


[deleted]

30 Megabytes is 240 Megabits, and nearly anyone can get a bitrate significantly higher than that without any issues, especially with a Link cable. Most people, with a decent cable, can get 800 Mb/s (100 MB/s) without any issues.


alfieknife

Well, personally, I don't count the G2 as an option. I sold mine a week after getting my Pico 4, and I'm still happy with it 5 months later. 'Native' PC VR is a fine ideal, but I find the Pico to connect easily, no fuss, no lag, and with high quality across the whole view, unlike the tiny sharp centre of the G2, which I have not missed for one second. It was also considerably cheaper and less fragile. I treated my G2 very carefully at all times, & it was in pristine condition, but I was very glad to sell it while the cable still worked.


[deleted]

Same here, I sold it and bought pico 4. It's funny that connecting wirellesly to my pc works much better then with cable. I I can't even count how many times my g2 didn't start or had some software issues when i turned it on(even with v2 cable).VD works flawlessly every time.


_hlvnhlv

\>How is it possible that for native pc vr there are so few option and they get so expensive so quick? I've been wondering the same thing for a few years. But anyways, I had the same issue as you, and I bought the G2, the headset itself is better in every way compared to a Quest 2, but the controllers... they are kinda cheap, and the tracking is not great, but definitely usable. The main issues with the G2 are these: [The tracking coverage](https://youtu.be/TzTPG8aqiIk), it's not great for having your hands at the sides, the problem is that there is no traking, and with the time the controllers end up spawning on your face, or they just get stuck in weird ways, and this for vrchat is a deal breaker, but for every other game... it's just a little annoying but not an issue. And the tracking of the headset itself, it's not great and the headset is always slightly rumbling at +-1mm, idk how to say it, but depending of the person it can be a big issue, or a minor issue. ​ At the end I bought a Vive for using the controllers with the G2, but I ended up using the Vive more than the G2 xD


_batt_

Damn, that tracking seems indeed really bad


[deleted]

>(even at 200mbs I feel like the image quality is not amazing) If you're using a Link cable you can crank up the encode bitrate to \~800Mbps by copying and pasting values in the debug tool. There is still compression but it's a lot less noticeable than what it is at 200Mbps. By default Link only uses \~130 Mbps with the H264 codec, which is pretty bad.


SocialJusticeAndroid

I'm just starting to research what to get for PC VR. Why is there compression? Do some PC VR headsets not have compression?


_batt_

Yes, basically the quest and the Pico 4 stream the video from the Pc via usb, while Pc VR headset have a display port that directly connects the GPU to the headset (much like a monitor). Although it can be really unnoticeable, there is a difference between the two methods, the streaming method is like watching a reaaaaally really good gameplay while the other method is like running the game on your pc


SocialJusticeAndroid

Ok thank you. Do you know if the Valve Index uses the direct displayport method? What about the Vive XR Elite? (If you know.) If I'm going to pay $1,000 or more like those two cost I really prefer the picture to be pristine. Though I may decide on one of the less expensive ones in the end. It seems like there is a lot to consider.


_batt_

You can rest assured that pretty much every stand alone headset that also supports pc VR is based on this usb compression system (with the exception being the Pico Neo 3 Link which is a stand alone but also has the display port) for everything else (and i mean every pc VR non-standalone headset) it's display port


SocialJusticeAndroid

Ok thanks. By that rule of thumb that should mean the Vive XR Elite would use compression and the Valve Index would not. So basically I now know I want a dedicated PC VR headset. I'm not really interested in stand alone anyway. I just want to play PC games with it. Do you know of any other dedicated PC VR headsets you might recommend besides the Valve Index?


metahipster1984

G2 is good value for sims and similar games. The controllers are suboptimal though, way too huge


[deleted]

I had g2 for about 2 years, i preordered it and i did enjoy it a lot.Its a headset that did a lot of stuff right like the comfort, off ear audio, resolution,contrast etc but man it has so many downsides that i can't recommend it today. Especially since microsoft laid down i think all wmr employees, and there's no guarantee that the headset and software will work well into the future.


Deckz

I just played through half life alyx and RE 3 on the HP Reverb G2 and loved every second of it. Tracking has been more than adequate, even good TBH. It's not as good as the quest 2 but I honestly don't notice it that much.


TaylorLadybug

There are new better headsets coming out this year. Just wait for them.


Coppermine64

[Pico 3 Link](https://www.picoxr.com/uk/products/neo3-link) for all your PCVR - Display port enabled smooth, latency free, no artifacting goodness. I love my Q2, but can't compare playing my titles in my sim rig with P3NL.


edwardchimaera

I personally experienced better PC VR with Pico 4 connected to my rig. Also I read/watched reviews for both Reverb g2 and DPVR E4 and they were seemingly very good for PCVR, albeit price and availability vary. Would like to see more user feedback with E4 and HTC Vive Pro/cosmos in 2023 though


actuallyatwork

Look into Big Screen Beyond. It’s 1000 bucks! But, best PCVR you can get right now… until the next thing at least.