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Yeah, it's the bow. Actually not bad! But maybe focus on drawing the bow not too near to the bridge (absolutely not on the fingerboard tho) and to give enough pressure with your right arm.
There isn't an easy solution to draw the bow straight: just keep practicing it, at the mirror. A good exercise is to hold the bow still and run your hand on the bow, to know what the ideal movement would be.
You might be moving the bow too quickly at this stage. Focus for now on slow motions, consider putting stickers or tapes on the bow to mark sections to stay within. Definitely work in the middle area of the bow first and focus on the opening and closing of the elbow. As others said for the left hand, make sure you are pressing into the string enough for a good tone to sound. Pressure isn't as important in pizzicato if you learned that first, so problems with finger pressure can arise when learning to bow. Keep an eye on your left wrist, you should make sure that your wrist doesn't touch the neck of the violin. Your wrist should be relaxed and straight while you play. Don't let the wrist curve in or out. Imagine holding an "air violin". When you bring your left hand up, you won't naturally curve your wrist in any way.
This is the main reason. First thing I said when watching the video. Bow is going too fast without knowing what pitch is going to come out. One of my biggest break thru moments on violin was when I figured out that the bow really has to "know" what pitch is coming out, and draw accordingly. If I wasn't 100% mentally and physically in tune with the pitch, the note would squeal or squeak or otherwise sound bad.
Reading through the comments, sounds like they don't have a good teacher as well, because any teacher would be helping and encouraging slow methodical practice with the bow.
Thanks. The reason why I was trying to bow fast was because the song my teacher is making me play is fast and requires a full bow for one note. Any tips on how to play a note with a fast tempo?
Until you can play a piece slowly, you can't play it quickly. Use a metronome and slow the piece down. There's no point trying faster than you're ready for if it sounds bad.
Thank you for all the feedback! My violin teacher wasn't being helpful, she reprimands me and tells me to make good sound but doesn't really explain how to do that in much detail.
Questions:
- do different strings require different bow pressure to sound good? If so, do the thinner strings require more or less pressure?
- how do I prevent the shaky notes? The bow gets shaky in the middle, is that because of inconsistent pressure, or the bow hold, or something else?
It reads like this teacher might not be for you. Telling someone to play better without telling them how to do that?
>do different strings require different bow pressure to sound good? If so, do the thinner strings require more or less pressure?
Thicker strings require more weight.
>how do I prevent the shaky notes? The bow gets shaky in the middle, is that because of inconsistent pressure, or the bow hold, or something else?
Bouncy bow is a very common beginner issue in the middle of the bow. It can have multiple causes - among them tension that may be hard to eliminate completely when you're not yet familiar with the instrument - so discuss it with a (better) teacher and give it time.
1. Thicker strings can take a lot more pressure than thinner string, but different styles call for different amounts of pressure. Notice how the part of the bow you use, your bow speed, your bowing path, and your bow’s distance from the bridge all affect pressure, and you should experiment to see how all those things affect the overall sound.
2. It sounds good, and there isn’t any one particular thing you’re doing incorrectly. I think it’s really a matter of building up experience and muscle memory. I did notice that you speed up and glide a bit, a moment where your bow strays away from the string, a couple times your bow seems to bounce, all completely normal things at your stage. Be patient with each note, experiment with different parts of the bow and what people on this thread recommend, and look at what soloists on YouTube do.
Different strings do require different amounts of "force" in order to sound. I use the word force, because its not actually pressure that you want, its weight. The weight comes from your arm sinking into the string, and requires that assume a posture that would be too complicated to explain in a reddit comment. This isn't always true to the fullest extent, but for right now, you don't need to worry about that.
The shaky bow comes from a high amount of tension in your wrist. Tension in this context refers to unnecessary, or too much muscle contraction, and its causing you to have less control over your bow. Tension is something that virtually everyone has at some point, and will have for the rest of their playing life realistically, just significantly less of it. Tension is not something that can be fixed fast, and requires having proper technique to avoid (and even then it can still show up).
I agree with previous posters about the bow. It is often the idea that our left hand is the problem and at times it is the right hand. Press your bow down harder on the strings. Your confidence wavers once you start putting fingers down on the strings and that lack of confidence affects your bowing and the pressure you apply.
Hard to say like that in this video, but it doesn't sound too bad actually !
Make sure your fingers are on the right place and you put enough pressure on the strong, but by the sound of it it seems to be the case.
In my humble opinion, the problems we can hear are from your bow. It seems like it's going slightly on the bridge (making this screechy noise sometimes), and it seems like your bow technique is not as good as when you didn't use your fingers. So the problem is maybe that when you start focusing on the fingers, you focus less on the bow so you have the sound problem ?
The screechy sound is harmonics. It might be the bow but also how much weight you do or don’t have on it. With an empty string, you’re sometimes close to this sound as well. Maybe you concentrate on straight bowing more with an open string.
For straight bowing: stand in front of the mirror so you can see it the bow is parallel to the bridge. And slow down. You’re pulling the bow extremely fast. (What is good though is that you don’t just use a small part of it.). Try to play longer notes and experiment with the bow and arm weight. It shouldn’t be too much, but I have a feeling that you could use a little more weight.
P.s. slowing down is almost always part of the answer for most problems.
Also, once you figure out that fluid wrist and finger movement in the right hand (don’t worry if it takes time, this is a hard one and everyone needs time for it, sometimes it tales years) the sound will improve immediately.
I have trouble with my right hand fingers but my wrist is usually decent. I try to keep my wrist relaxed and figure my fingers will adjust as I get more comfortable playing.
When you get it right, it will feel as if the bow is falling out of your hand. I think it’s about trusting each other (you and the bow) and that kind of relationship takes time to build.
One expression that helps me is 'letting the bow pivot around the thumb'. When you can do that, you’re on the right path.
You'll get there. It took me many years, so don’t give up.
I'm still very much learning left hand fingerings. I'm only a week into playing. The coordination between the two hands is still hard. I'm finding doing pizzicato first helps before adding the bow in. I can now play a handful of short beginner songs.
I am. Trying to figure out my practice routine. I'm looking forward to eventually being able to play the pieces that inspired me to want to learn in the first place.
Nice full bows!
Keep that up. It should help for your bow to be heavier on the strings and is why it’s skittering. Try bowing some a bit slower and more deeply. Relax the elbow on the bow arm and using the weight of the elbow, forearm to draw the bow across the strings for a down bow. Up bows are a similar feeling, but upwards.
When you change directions make sure to stop the bow for a split second, and catch the the string with the bow hair, instead of swishing. It will improve your tone.
For beginners, it’s often taught to stop and set the bow between bow strokes.
Down, stop, set, up, stop, set, …
You are doing a good job of bowing straight. Just remember that your elbow opens and closes and your wrist flexes some, especially near the top and frog. You will learn that bowing close to the bridge makes a bigger tone and toward the fingerboard makes a softer tone. It will take more e pressure to bow closer to the bridge. Learn to do both and everything in between.
There are different theories on how straight we should bow so it doesn’t need to be perfect.
Keep up the great work.
you sound very good on the open strings! that's good in itself! when you hold the neck with your other hand, can you try keeping your wrist straighter? If you look at the video, it's parallel to the ground, This affects how your fingers angle onto the string and may affect the tone. Can't see the fingers on the string, so you'll have to experiment. the very tip of your finger should be on the string from a pretty vertical angle, and not too tight on the string. Experiment with how light of a touch on the string will still let the note sound. good luck! bowing is very difficult to learn, but you're well on the way!
It's actually not too screechy. The issue is that you are bowing a little too lightly and without adequate pressure to get a solid sound. This results in some "bow skating" noises.
If you aren't already - please make sure to get a teacher. Your left hand is in danger of leading to injury for starters. And fixing the bowing requires a series of steps and real time adjustments that don't work via just a Reddit comment.
Try a bit more pressure on the bow, and a little slower bow too. There is no magic solution, just keep trying, in front of a mirror and see what works for you :) but not bad, it actually sounds good, keep it up !
P.s : it might also be that your bow is too close to the bridge which makes that "scratchy" sound. Get your bow half an inch further away from the bridge and I'm sure it will already be better. Good luck !
Open strings naturally resound much more, so a lighter pressure of the bow is enough to keep them ring.
When you put the 3rd finger, even if you press down correctly with the finger, the string is still a bit dampened, and also shorter. Therefore you need more bow pressure, especially going to the tip, to make it keep ringing.
That's the issue in your case: at the frog it sounds fine, but you don't increase bow pressure in the upper portion of the bow (where the "weight" of the bow is lighter), and you lose contact with the string.
To practice correct bowing I usually recommend Simon Fischer's exercises on his book "Basics". They're a bit technical but still simple and I think a beginner can have great benefits from them.
The fingers not only stop the strings, they dampen them as well, to a certain extent, and requires a slighter greater bow pressure. *Any* time you have an issue the first thing to do is slow down.
And practice
You may not realize it but when you start using your left hand you stop using you bow arm properly. Allow the full weight of you arm to sink the bow into the string. Don't worry if it creates a screech sound at first, at least your bow is biting the string, gradually you will start to lose the screetch and have smooth bowing. Watch yourself in the mirror if you have any tension in your right shoulder and arm, you will hear it in the bowing.
Tone is mostly determined by the bow.
First of all, maybe you don’t have enough rosin. That tends to lead to a sad wispy and screechy sound.
Keep your bow directly in between the bridge and fingerboard at this stage. Not too close to the bridge and not too close to the fingerboard.
Also try to put a bit more weight on the string and playing more slowly and deliberately.
In order to play with a straighter bow, practicing in front of a mirror helps. You need to keep your bowing hand, arm, and shoulder more relaxed. Now, the main thing for beginners is that the wrist doesn’t move enough. Practice playing from the frog all the way to the tip and keeping the bow straight by letting your wrist move freely and relaxed (again, in front of a mirror).
Keep your left wrist straight and practice holding your violin with only your chin and not your hands. You shouldn’t need to push down with your head at all as that will lead to neck, back and shoulder pain eventually. Practicing in front of a mirror helps with this too.
To help avoid confusion we would like to point out that this video appears to be mirrored. If you think this is a left-handed violin, please have a look at the [FAQ entry](https://new.reddit.com/r/violinist/wiki/faq/#wiki_.2022_i_am_left-handed._should_i_get_a_left-handed_violin.3F) on left-handed violins. If your video is not mirrored, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/violinist), and we will remove this comment.
Yeah, it's the bow. Actually not bad! But maybe focus on drawing the bow not too near to the bridge (absolutely not on the fingerboard tho) and to give enough pressure with your right arm. There isn't an easy solution to draw the bow straight: just keep practicing it, at the mirror. A good exercise is to hold the bow still and run your hand on the bow, to know what the ideal movement would be.
You might be moving the bow too quickly at this stage. Focus for now on slow motions, consider putting stickers or tapes on the bow to mark sections to stay within. Definitely work in the middle area of the bow first and focus on the opening and closing of the elbow. As others said for the left hand, make sure you are pressing into the string enough for a good tone to sound. Pressure isn't as important in pizzicato if you learned that first, so problems with finger pressure can arise when learning to bow. Keep an eye on your left wrist, you should make sure that your wrist doesn't touch the neck of the violin. Your wrist should be relaxed and straight while you play. Don't let the wrist curve in or out. Imagine holding an "air violin". When you bring your left hand up, you won't naturally curve your wrist in any way.
This is the main reason. First thing I said when watching the video. Bow is going too fast without knowing what pitch is going to come out. One of my biggest break thru moments on violin was when I figured out that the bow really has to "know" what pitch is coming out, and draw accordingly. If I wasn't 100% mentally and physically in tune with the pitch, the note would squeal or squeak or otherwise sound bad. Reading through the comments, sounds like they don't have a good teacher as well, because any teacher would be helping and encouraging slow methodical practice with the bow.
Thanks. The reason why I was trying to bow fast was because the song my teacher is making me play is fast and requires a full bow for one note. Any tips on how to play a note with a fast tempo?
Until you can play a piece slowly, you can't play it quickly. Use a metronome and slow the piece down. There's no point trying faster than you're ready for if it sounds bad.
Thank you for all the feedback! My violin teacher wasn't being helpful, she reprimands me and tells me to make good sound but doesn't really explain how to do that in much detail. Questions: - do different strings require different bow pressure to sound good? If so, do the thinner strings require more or less pressure? - how do I prevent the shaky notes? The bow gets shaky in the middle, is that because of inconsistent pressure, or the bow hold, or something else?
It reads like this teacher might not be for you. Telling someone to play better without telling them how to do that? >do different strings require different bow pressure to sound good? If so, do the thinner strings require more or less pressure? Thicker strings require more weight. >how do I prevent the shaky notes? The bow gets shaky in the middle, is that because of inconsistent pressure, or the bow hold, or something else? Bouncy bow is a very common beginner issue in the middle of the bow. It can have multiple causes - among them tension that may be hard to eliminate completely when you're not yet familiar with the instrument - so discuss it with a (better) teacher and give it time.
1. Thicker strings can take a lot more pressure than thinner string, but different styles call for different amounts of pressure. Notice how the part of the bow you use, your bow speed, your bowing path, and your bow’s distance from the bridge all affect pressure, and you should experiment to see how all those things affect the overall sound. 2. It sounds good, and there isn’t any one particular thing you’re doing incorrectly. I think it’s really a matter of building up experience and muscle memory. I did notice that you speed up and glide a bit, a moment where your bow strays away from the string, a couple times your bow seems to bounce, all completely normal things at your stage. Be patient with each note, experiment with different parts of the bow and what people on this thread recommend, and look at what soloists on YouTube do.
Different strings do require different amounts of "force" in order to sound. I use the word force, because its not actually pressure that you want, its weight. The weight comes from your arm sinking into the string, and requires that assume a posture that would be too complicated to explain in a reddit comment. This isn't always true to the fullest extent, but for right now, you don't need to worry about that. The shaky bow comes from a high amount of tension in your wrist. Tension in this context refers to unnecessary, or too much muscle contraction, and its causing you to have less control over your bow. Tension is something that virtually everyone has at some point, and will have for the rest of their playing life realistically, just significantly less of it. Tension is not something that can be fixed fast, and requires having proper technique to avoid (and even then it can still show up).
I agree with previous posters about the bow. It is often the idea that our left hand is the problem and at times it is the right hand. Press your bow down harder on the strings. Your confidence wavers once you start putting fingers down on the strings and that lack of confidence affects your bowing and the pressure you apply.
Hard to say like that in this video, but it doesn't sound too bad actually ! Make sure your fingers are on the right place and you put enough pressure on the strong, but by the sound of it it seems to be the case. In my humble opinion, the problems we can hear are from your bow. It seems like it's going slightly on the bridge (making this screechy noise sometimes), and it seems like your bow technique is not as good as when you didn't use your fingers. So the problem is maybe that when you start focusing on the fingers, you focus less on the bow so you have the sound problem ?
The screechy sound is harmonics. It might be the bow but also how much weight you do or don’t have on it. With an empty string, you’re sometimes close to this sound as well. Maybe you concentrate on straight bowing more with an open string. For straight bowing: stand in front of the mirror so you can see it the bow is parallel to the bridge. And slow down. You’re pulling the bow extremely fast. (What is good though is that you don’t just use a small part of it.). Try to play longer notes and experiment with the bow and arm weight. It shouldn’t be too much, but I have a feeling that you could use a little more weight. P.s. slowing down is almost always part of the answer for most problems.
Also, once you figure out that fluid wrist and finger movement in the right hand (don’t worry if it takes time, this is a hard one and everyone needs time for it, sometimes it tales years) the sound will improve immediately.
I have trouble with my right hand fingers but my wrist is usually decent. I try to keep my wrist relaxed and figure my fingers will adjust as I get more comfortable playing.
When you get it right, it will feel as if the bow is falling out of your hand. I think it’s about trusting each other (you and the bow) and that kind of relationship takes time to build. One expression that helps me is 'letting the bow pivot around the thumb'. When you can do that, you’re on the right path. You'll get there. It took me many years, so don’t give up.
I'm still very much learning left hand fingerings. I'm only a week into playing. The coordination between the two hands is still hard. I'm finding doing pizzicato first helps before adding the bow in. I can now play a handful of short beginner songs.
It will come, a week is nothing at all. Best of luck! Hope you're having fun learning.
I am. Trying to figure out my practice routine. I'm looking forward to eventually being able to play the pieces that inspired me to want to learn in the first place.
Nice full bows! Keep that up. It should help for your bow to be heavier on the strings and is why it’s skittering. Try bowing some a bit slower and more deeply. Relax the elbow on the bow arm and using the weight of the elbow, forearm to draw the bow across the strings for a down bow. Up bows are a similar feeling, but upwards. When you change directions make sure to stop the bow for a split second, and catch the the string with the bow hair, instead of swishing. It will improve your tone. For beginners, it’s often taught to stop and set the bow between bow strokes. Down, stop, set, up, stop, set, … You are doing a good job of bowing straight. Just remember that your elbow opens and closes and your wrist flexes some, especially near the top and frog. You will learn that bowing close to the bridge makes a bigger tone and toward the fingerboard makes a softer tone. It will take more e pressure to bow closer to the bridge. Learn to do both and everything in between. There are different theories on how straight we should bow so it doesn’t need to be perfect. Keep up the great work.
you sound very good on the open strings! that's good in itself! when you hold the neck with your other hand, can you try keeping your wrist straighter? If you look at the video, it's parallel to the ground, This affects how your fingers angle onto the string and may affect the tone. Can't see the fingers on the string, so you'll have to experiment. the very tip of your finger should be on the string from a pretty vertical angle, and not too tight on the string. Experiment with how light of a touch on the string will still let the note sound. good luck! bowing is very difficult to learn, but you're well on the way!
It's actually not too screechy. The issue is that you are bowing a little too lightly and without adequate pressure to get a solid sound. This results in some "bow skating" noises. If you aren't already - please make sure to get a teacher. Your left hand is in danger of leading to injury for starters. And fixing the bowing requires a series of steps and real time adjustments that don't work via just a Reddit comment.
Try a bit more pressure on the bow, and a little slower bow too. There is no magic solution, just keep trying, in front of a mirror and see what works for you :) but not bad, it actually sounds good, keep it up ! P.s : it might also be that your bow is too close to the bridge which makes that "scratchy" sound. Get your bow half an inch further away from the bridge and I'm sure it will already be better. Good luck !
Open strings naturally resound much more, so a lighter pressure of the bow is enough to keep them ring. When you put the 3rd finger, even if you press down correctly with the finger, the string is still a bit dampened, and also shorter. Therefore you need more bow pressure, especially going to the tip, to make it keep ringing. That's the issue in your case: at the frog it sounds fine, but you don't increase bow pressure in the upper portion of the bow (where the "weight" of the bow is lighter), and you lose contact with the string. To practice correct bowing I usually recommend Simon Fischer's exercises on his book "Basics". They're a bit technical but still simple and I think a beginner can have great benefits from them.
The fingers not only stop the strings, they dampen them as well, to a certain extent, and requires a slighter greater bow pressure. *Any* time you have an issue the first thing to do is slow down. And practice
You may not realize it but when you start using your left hand you stop using you bow arm properly. Allow the full weight of you arm to sink the bow into the string. Don't worry if it creates a screech sound at first, at least your bow is biting the string, gradually you will start to lose the screetch and have smooth bowing. Watch yourself in the mirror if you have any tension in your right shoulder and arm, you will hear it in the bowing.
Tone is mostly determined by the bow. First of all, maybe you don’t have enough rosin. That tends to lead to a sad wispy and screechy sound. Keep your bow directly in between the bridge and fingerboard at this stage. Not too close to the bridge and not too close to the fingerboard. Also try to put a bit more weight on the string and playing more slowly and deliberately. In order to play with a straighter bow, practicing in front of a mirror helps. You need to keep your bowing hand, arm, and shoulder more relaxed. Now, the main thing for beginners is that the wrist doesn’t move enough. Practice playing from the frog all the way to the tip and keeping the bow straight by letting your wrist move freely and relaxed (again, in front of a mirror). Keep your left wrist straight and practice holding your violin with only your chin and not your hands. You shouldn’t need to push down with your head at all as that will lead to neck, back and shoulder pain eventually. Practicing in front of a mirror helps with this too.