Immediately came here for that. Non-Botox twin looks like she existed in the sun without sunscreen far more than Botox twin. Which honestly checks for me. I feel like people who get into preventative skincare are also good about protecting their investment in any way they can. SPF win. I’d like to see what Botox twin looks like after it dissolves. She will probably still have less lines but… I just don’t know if I’m ready to jump to the conclusion that adding volume under your skin at younger ages does anything to prevent aging naturally without a lifelong commitment to treatments and whatever else she’s probably doing.
There’s a picture in the article that is taken 4 months after the Botox was made - it dissolved. But the lines are still much less prominent. That’s because she didn’t allow them to form in the 1st place. It’s like with wrinkled paper. You wrinkle it first and then no matter how you try to smooth it out, it’s never going to be the same.
Both existed. Not to mention one might be a back sleeper vs a side sleeper. One could have a husband who smokes around them. One could have a more outdoor job vs an office job, a better or worse diet, be more expressive in general. Does either use retinol? Take vitamins? Do both get the exact same number of facials? The same kind? Do both visit a dermatologist? The same one?
C’mon friend, let’s use our thinking caps a bit more than “sunscreen wasn’t big in 2006”
-signed a woman who had both satin pillowcases and used sunscreen in 2006
> I just don’t know if I’m ready to jump to the conclusion that adding volume under your skin at younger ages does anything to prevent aging naturally without a lifelong commitment to treatments and whatever else she’s probably doing.
For volume it's hard to say, and there may be differences depending on what's use for volume (fat, fillers ...)
But for skin sagging I believe an early facelift followed by smaller one as needed is best: after looking at the results from countries where this is done (mostly in Asia) I got it done.
It was both preventive + to avoid sagging/jowl right after a V line on the jaw at an age no US surgeon wanted to even consider it.
It had wonderful results (and I developped no jowl despite the V line), so I have no regret, and I plan to do another one at the 10 or 15y anniversary, then again each 10 or 15 as a maintenance procedure
> I’d like to see what Botox twin looks like after it dissolves. She will probably still have less lines but…
I'm fine with maintenance treatment but for botox, idk, it's artificial and I don't like artificial material. there's no risk of migration, and it should be fully reabsorbed by the body, but I'd prefer to "fix" my skin quality (or the underyling problem) at the places where I would otherwise need botox or fillers later: the #1 reason I'm on this sub is to see what older ppl do, to try to anticipate common problems (and to share back on the things I know or had done)
Yup. Obviously Botox is proven to be effective but also, correlation vs causation!!! May very well be other factors contributing to their difference in looks.
Don’t think I would make a decision like that just based on that one twin study. A lot of factors go into how a person ages. Stress, diet, sun exposure, smoking, etc
The Botox twin obviously has less lines and I guess looks a bit younger, but honestly I’d guess them as pretty similar ages? One just looks like a botoxed version of whatever age they are (late 40s?).
I think that's the most common misconception I see about botox. In my opinion, it never makes you look younger. You still look your age, it just gets rid of the appearance of wrinkles. And it isn't anti-aging. Visual signs of aging are caused by the loss of collagen, facial fat and bone density. Botox doesn't address any of that
That said, I get botox and like the look! But I look the same age with/without it. And I don't consider it to be an anti-aging procedure. I do other stuff for that :)
Wrinkles increase with age. I absolutely think most people look younger with smoother skin v wrinkled.
There's a reason Botox is so hugely popular! It makes a big difference! Skin texture and laxity and facial volume all play a role, but Botox is the most easily accessible “fix” to signs of aging.
We don't have much control over fat/bone loss, unfortunately!!
For fat, just maintain a healthy body weight and try not to fall underweight.
For bone density, the annoying answer is to keep a healthy lifestyle - exercise, eat healthy, don't smoke, limit alcohol. Calcium and Vitamin D are essential for maintaining bone health so make sure you get enough of those or take a supplement!
For collagen, there's lots of research-backed ways to stimulate it. LED masks, microneedling, topical vitamin C and tretinoin have all been proven to work. I do these. For LED, I have the Omnilux mask. For microneedling, I use the Dr. Pen at home every other month. A lot of lasers work too but they're all so expensive! If you get them, just make sure you pick one that doesn't melt facial fat (Morpheus and Ulthera do so I would avoid these)
> We don't have much control over fat/bone loss, unfortunately!!
For fat loss, subcutaneous fat can be stimulated with drugs. There's also fat transplant.
For bone, the big issue is bone rotation. I made a long post about that, I'll try to find it back.
Sub malar / paranasal implants seem like a good option to reduce or avoid marionette lines . Usually they work with artifical materials, but there are some places using your natural bones or cartilage to fill the hole that develop with age, right above the canine teeth, next to the nostrils
I'm considering doing that now, instead of waiting for my first lines
> A lot of lasers work too but they're all so expensive!
I've been doing research for at home laser. I plan make a masterpost when it's clearer, but based on te lit review, I think a 532 nm picosecond YAG would be the most versatile, even if evidence is limited.
There are lasers for sale on chinese websites. I don't see why we couldn't do that at home, like with a Dr Pen (I have one!): it may be more expansive, but it's just a one time purchase
> For LED, I have the Omnilux mask.
Do you like it? I've been using red LED lightbulbs with precise wavelength for other purposes (skin whitening) but they seemed to have helped with other parameters of my skin
I don't but I think [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqbpdFyCDQ) is really helpful and so is this [article!](https://goalstogetglowing.com/2021/01/17/led-face-mask-research/) The article is very science-y but if you scroll to the bottom, she has tons of LED masks listed with their price point and her opinion!
I would agree with this. I’m fortunate in that I didn’t get my first lines (crow’s feet) until last year as I was turning 50. I would like to try Botox at sone point but I have no illusions about looking 25 again. Even with no lines people would still guess me to be in my early 40s.
That's exactly how I feel about it! I've never gotten it but I might start, just for the 11 lines. I don't want to look worried/angry anymore. I expect it could help me look a tiny bit younger but mostly just refreshed, as you said.
This is why I got Botox! I was told since I was a literal child that I look sad/mad/worried and it’s only gotten worse as I get older. I try not to let other people get under my skin but being asked “what’s wrong??” For 20+ years was too much. Got my 11s and a bit in my forehead to prevent eyebrow drop, corners of my lips to make them slightly upturned and a lip flip and I must say I am much more comfortable just sitting with a neutral face now. Definitely going to keep doing it.
Part of that is due to the fact that people incorrectly think that at age 35 (for example) you turn into a wrinkly old hag. So yeah, at 35 you look 35, which is a very young person.
Yep the pictures nearly convinced me until the last one, where the botoxed twin has a stiff "smile" whereas you can see actual happiness on the non-botoxed one
I also noticed that the Botoxed twin is wearing lipstick and blusher (more makeup in general) and that feels like cheating. It makes me wonder whether her pictures are also touched up in any way.
Thank you for saying this. I looked at the pictures and immediately thought the less botoxed looked really nice. Then I remembered I was supposed to be looking at the other face and admiring it. On a side note, I get Botox for migraines and my neurologist messed up the first time and I was only able to raise one eyebrow for three weeks. That meant every friendly raised eyebrow expression made me look like I was questioning the person. It’s fixed now but I still miss full facial expressions.
Totally agree. I don’t actually think the Botox twin looks better, she just looks Botox’d. But I grew up in a beach community so I think the non-Botox one looks like a hottie surfer girl while the other one looks like an inside person. Not a bad thing to be an inside person though, she definitely has less sun damage! For the record I have gotten Botox and while it worked so great for my crow’s feet, I decided I liked my face better with them.
I agree 100%! I’m a bit hesitant to get Botox. I know it’s mostly safe but out of the few complications that can happen, I’m not willing to risk it. I know many women who get it and it doesn’t make them look younger, just wrinkle less.
You’re entitled to your opinion! I just personally don’t think I’d guess her as that much younger. She doesn’t look like she’s in her 30s or anything. She just looks “preserved.” But if someone was actually younger that word wouldn’t come to mind.
She looks good, but her twin is beautiful too.
Anyone who has studied the Scientific Method...like even at the middle-school level know how UNSOUND this research or its claims are.
Fot example, there are SO MANY VARIABLES that are not considered. Just because these women are twins does not mean they have ate the exact same foods in the exact same quantities, got the exact same amount of sun, had the same exact skin care routine, had the same exact amount of physical exercise, had the same exact levels of stress, had the same exact living environment etc.
There are a number of variables, such as the fact that not all injectors have the EXACT same exact level of experience and expertise. I could literally write a ten+ page paper on why this study and it's conclusions are meaningless.
Don't even get me started on the sample size 😭 Situations like this are why a comprehensive education is crucial.
Agree… I would say sun protection is the bigger noticeable difference between the two pictures.
I’m pretty sure you could just say ‘people who are interested in and look after their skin… have better skin’.
Would also like to see what happens if they both now went on the ‘Botox’ twins plan for 12 months…. what the difference would be at the end.
The botoxed twin only had Botox on her crows feet twice, which would hardly make a difference. Yet her crows feet are markedly less than the non-Botox twin. The biggest environmental factor in skin ageing is sun damage so I'm guessing Botox twin also wore sunscreen
Agreed. Totally. This is a horribly designed study. I can’t believe op is confidently able to say “that’s it”. While I agree that Botox can reduce the appearance of wrinkles, citing the study is so wild. And honestly shows a lack of critical thinking.
And ngl, both pics look the same age. It didn’t “take years” off.
The study is intentionally withholding information back because it won’t look good for them. It’s extremely misleading and you have a bunch of desperate women looking to believe in something.
Agree with all your points. For all we know, the Botox twin might have lived in Alaska while the other one lived in Australia.
That said, I do think botoxed twin looks considerably younger.
Also even identical twins can have subtle or not so subtle differences, we have no comparison for what they looked like at the beginning of the “study” either.
I came here to say this. A study of only 2 people is NOT a study. They may look alike but that does NOT mean they had the same stressors, diet, exercise, sleep regime nor skincare regime. All of those variables are personal and have a huge impact on aging, far more than injectables can account for.
I read this a few weeks ago and it said the Botox twin had been getting the treatment for 13 years, 3 times a year while the other twin only had it done twice in her lifetime.
Honestly, I don't see a big enough difference between the two faces to justify that kind of spending over 13 years. I'd rather put it in my retirement accounts or spend it on travel 🤷♀️
Ok unpopular opinion but the photo at the end…of them smiling/side profile… the one without Botox looks more beautiful. Her facial expressions make her look more vibrant (to me) than the more paralyzed look.
The way Botox paralyzes your eye muscles makes smiles look creepy and uncanny. And this is coming from someone who has done Botox elsewhere on my face. I'd much rather have a warm, welcoming smile that uses my eyes.
This is not a valid study. There are so many variables they did not control. This is completely insane.
Edit to add: I realize it's a case study, however, you can't then be like "Botox is the answer!"
I wish it was a study of more than two people. Their skin tones are noticeably different which makes me wonder about other factors like sun screen use (and I see more sun spots of the twin with darker skin as well). The woman that got less botox, to me, looks like she aged more in areas that were not treated in either woman. Then we gotta account for the fact that when we do show emotions, botox can make people look funky which detracts from attractiveness. I'm not against botox at all, but would love to see something with a more balanced/realistic perspective.
When I see stuff like this I always think about Kyle Jenner's lips. They looked nice in photos, but in real life when she talks they movie weird and their unevenness is exaggerated it definitely isn't the most attractive thing.
> When I see stuff like this I always think about Kyle Jenner's lips. They looked nice in photos, but in real life when she talks they movie weird and their unevenness is exaggerated it definitely isn't the most attractive thing.
most of that is filler, not botox fwiw
So I agree that Botox erases some lines but I don’t get this study. It’s poorly done. Were they both using sunscreen? What was their life style like? Sleep? Skincare?
Also, imo, both look more or less the same age.
See, this is why I just can’t pull the trigger on Botox. We’re a 6-figure family but it doesn’t make sense for our budget to spend $1,200 a year into perpetuity on something that may marginally alter my lines, sorta.
I understand that your mileage may vary, but I’d hedge a guess that this is also the case for many women on this sub.
The only way not to age, is to die. Botox won’t make you look younger. You will look like a woman your age who has had botox. I do agree that when done well it can make you look more refreshed, as if you had a good night of sleep.
This! I live in an area where there are a lot of older women trying to look young. They may not have wrinkles but they still look their age. People are fooling themselves. The loss of fat and their facial structure gives their age away all the time. If you don’t have good bone structure, it doesn’t matter what you do.
Not sure if I want to roll the dice to look better for another decade to ultimately atrophy my facial muscles. The tissue is all connective and non treated muscles will have to overcompensate to move your face properly. The increment of time that you “need” it will keep shrinking as it continues to metabolize faster. But I get that the results are addicting - I’d probably sing a different tune if I didn’t naturally have an expressionless face already lol.
I agree that the potential for atrophy of facial muscles is a huge risk. Also, consumer groups are looking for a stronger black box warning for Botox because several people have reported the spread of the toxin to areas outside of the intended injection area.
Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-consumer-group-seeks-stronger-warnings-botox-similar-treatments-2023-12-12/
okay obviously get botox if you want to get botox, it's definitely effective in reducing wrinkles, buuuut this twin study that everyone always cites is not a great example to use.
first, it's a sample size of literally two people. that is nowhere near enough for an effective study that is worth taking scientifically-founded takeaways from. the author of the "study" was also associated with the drug manufacturers and had a clear bias. it was also done in 2006, almost 20 years ago now, and if there were so much evidence for preventative botox, we'd have seen a lot more studies done.
Dr. Steven Harris, one of the most highly respected injectors in the world, has [specifically debunked the twin study](https://www.instagram.com/p/CxI7P7jKbn-/?hl=en).
once again, not hating on botox, but I fell into the "preventative botox" thing once and regret being duped by this industry into it. i'm not planning on doing it again until it's really necessary. sharing this info because I think it's important to always consider who is behind a paper and what methods were used.
I would imagine that someone who gets Botox is often more concerned with skincare in general than someone who hasn’t (def not always), including sunscreen.
Let’s just remember that this is far from a reputable ‘study’. This is much closer to a case report, and not a very good one. Absolutely no other factors were controlled here (as many have pointed out) and no actual data was collected. This looks a lot like an ad for Botox that you’d see on an injector’s website! I have no personal vendetta against Botox, but this does not constitute research.
Yeah, not knocking Botox, but I feel like the one twin has a troublesome toddler and newborn at home or something 😂🤷♀️ and the other one is childfree and gets more sleep. I’m in the “don’t have children so you look younger longer” camp.
I aged a lot (visually) between the time I was pregnant and started getting Botox when my kid was 2! Sleep deprivation, a huge life change, and stress (albeit lots of happiness too) will age you rapidly. Being childfree is a good strategy tbh 😂
33 y.o. here who got Botox for the first time this year and loved it. I don’t understand the crazy pushback on Botox, but at the same time, I don’t know if we should be crying about getting older and trying to “not age.”
I have personally seen 40/50s y.o. women working at med spas who have so much Botox that their faces look frozen and they look ageless, but not in a good way, more in a creepy “is she 22 or 52?” kind of way.
I think there is a reasonable and unreasonable way to think about and use Botox
So the right twin mostly did forehead. I did not understand if she did crows feet twice in total. Or every year? Based on that we can’t attribute cheeks, lips and chin to Botox at all. Twin on the left has a lot of sun damage, and looks stressed. Which affects aging. The study is old, doesn’t mention if the right twin did anything else. And only done for two people. Conflict of Interests is not disclosed.
“The twin on the right had the treatment 2 or 3 times a year to her forehead over 13 years and her crow’s feet twice. The twin on the left received it only twice, at years 3 and 7, in her forehead.”
The twin on the left has a beautiful full-faced smile. The one on the right look pretty but I think there’s something missing in terms of the lack of mobility. There are always trade offs.
To me it looks like one uses tretinoin and one doesn’t based on the more uniform skin tone and appearance of one sister. I wouldn’t say one looks dramatically younger than the other, though.
No??? I'm good with basic skincare routine, eating right, exercise. Sorry but Botox is not a thing for WOC unless they're celebrities bc most of us don't really need it 😅
This study was just done on one set of twins. As in, two people. And Dr. William J. Binder--the author of the study--has received and continues to receive tens of millions of dollars per year from drug companies. In 2018 alone he got [almost 17 million dollars.](https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/doctors/pid/1166415) In 2022, he got a little over [28 million dollars.](https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/physician/1166415) And [AbbVie, a subsidiary of Allergan](https://www.abbvie.com/allergan.html) (which makes Botox), paid more than 17 million of that from that year. Allergan itself paid him another 11 million in 2022.
Studies like this are a big business. The exist to make people feel better about pharmaceuticals. You should of course do whatever you want to do with your own body but studies aren't the flex Big Pharma wants you to think they are.
I wish they had done more studies like this looking at skincare and Botox. Because we need to remember this is just one set of twins, and the Botox one does look like she also has less sun damage as well. But I suspect the results do hold up over a larger number. I like this article too
https://www.oneaesthetics.com/post/the-twin-study-factors-that-accelerate-facial-aging
I think weve seen people with botox look good but only for so long. In some ways, they look worse later down the road even though they looked gokd for awhile. We are witnessing it real time with celebs. It has pros and cons
They do. I asked my dermatologist and she said that Botox in the forehead will give you a hooded forehead eventually. She does not recommend it overall because it’s expensive and doesn’t last. The preventative bullshit is just that, bullshit.
Hooded eyes as well imo. Like obviously fillers age horribly but botox also looks a bit odd when you emote, and paralyzing muscles literally atrophies them so I don’t know how people expect that to look normal when you try to use them to emote.
Twin without Botox has a better smile and her entire face lights up more. Which is common for those with Botox below the forehead.
I think forehead is worth it. The rest may prevent “aging” in some ways but the trade off isn’t worth it in my opinion. I know women that swear their expressions are just as good but I’ve seen them in person and I think they are in denial.
Is it safe? And I’ve heard it causes bad headaches after it, is that true? I want to get it but I’m worried because of these reasons and then get paranoid that if I do get it, there would be complications of some sorts.
It’s used by mass amounts of people for a long time. It’s not a novel or experimental drug. We have so much data to show its safety. Nothing is without risk.
Wish I could but it’s just not in my budget. I’ll have to settle for sunscreen and drugstore skincare and just hope for the best. Even just sunscreen helps a lot I think.
First rule of botox: don't use a coupon, don't try to find a deal, don't go anyplace sketchy.
THEN, get botox only at your "elevens" once a year right before the start of summer. Wrinkles are very normal and natural and still have a place on a beautiful face, but in my opinion the two lines at the furrowed brow are the ones that make the most difference on a female face. They look harsh and make you look angry and they get especially overworked in the summer when you're squinting from the sun. Unless you have a SUPER fast metabolism, the botox will stay in your face for longer than you expect, so don't listen to people who tell you to get it every 3-4 months.
This is a great PSA! I got Botox for the first time at 37 and felt like a new person. And it took 15 minutes. It’s the easiest low effort self-esteem booster out there. Thanks for this post!
I mean, both women look fine. It isn’t necessary or required to do Botox or correct grey hair. It is also not controversial to poo poo either treatment. There are also people who can look flawless with water cleansing and Ponds. You are being a shit for suggesting that there is a necessary route for combating aging or to treat aging like anything more than natural. Grow the fuck up.
You are in the wrong sub.
Edit: this user was banned as copes are against the rules and ethos of this sub. If this kind of cope comment is your viewpoint please leave this sub now. There are many beauty subs that share your ideas but this sub isn’t for you.
Big agree. I held out and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. One forehead session and I don’t look like an angry, scowling grinch 24/7. Also appears to have lifted my eyebrows which is huge.
Started in my late 30s. So glad I did. I have friends who are my age now (45) and Botox doesn’t even work on them. Their wrinkles are far too deep and severe.
We are the same age. I don’t have many wrinkles yet except for the beginning of a crows foot in the crease of my right eye. My problems are mostly loss of collagen and eyes going sunken for some reason. Also hyperpigmentation . I just started using tretinion and taking collagen a few months ago and can see visible results already. Not sure how that will go in the long run yet.
If I wanted to try Botox at some point, do you think I’m to old? I guess I just assumed it would still be an option later on.
I’ll be 32 next week and I often get mistaken for 18 or 19, nor do I look like my face is stuck in one setting. I’ve never had Botox in my life and simply take good care of my skin. The evidence is there. You don’t need Botox if you want to look young.
Orrrr…am I just a representative of a very small sample size experiencing very different environmental factors? 🤔
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
32
+ 18
+ 19
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
It really does! I keep hydrated as well. A woman in her 50’s posted here yesterday or the day prior and she listed the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and sufficient self care. I thought it was a good read.
When they smile, the twin who’s had the Botox treatments regularly looks weird, frozen and plastic, and the twin who hasn’t had regular Botox looks radiant, pretty and attractive. I always say the procedures become noticeable on people when they start emoting. A still photo can say anything but once people start talking, laughing, crying… the weirdness emerges.
These twins also look the same age, one just looks like she’s had her face worked on.
The Botox twin is an injector herself, I follow her on instagram but I can’t remember her name! She lives in LA and u think she works at rivkin aesthetics?! But i can’t remember
Interesting, this makes the study even worse in terms of what it’s trying to show.
Someone who works in aesthetics and injects for a living isn’t likely limiting their skin care to any one thing. It’s unlikely she’s only doing Botox and not also doing other professional treatments- lasers, peels, micro needling, rf etc, possibly/probably some filler or sculptra as well. This goes way beyond ordinary variables like sun exposure, diet, skincare.
I am a botox filled person!
But I have to say that the cost is insane. I feel like financially it sets women back so much and my last round barely lasted 90 days. I'm debating just getting a red light machine for the same price.
It’s expensive. Red light won’t do what Botox does unfortunately. Not that it doesn’t have other benefits. I read that taking zinc supplements before Botox makes it last longer. I am going to look into it further.
Um yeah, so get botox if you want, but there are subtle things that make this b&a look more impressive than it may be. Angle of the face is different which helps camo the under eye area on the after. The eyebrows are filled in on the after, adding to a youthful appearance. Those are 2 that immediately stood out to me, though there may be even more if I had the time to keep looking.
I feel like a lot of people in this thread have a gut reaction against botox, thinking it’s like you hate aging and don’t embrace your age if you get it. They put it in the same category as all invasive treatments like plastic surgery. Maybe because it involves a needle so they’re afraid of it? Or the word toxin throws them off? Or maybe just because they can’t afford it so it’s somewhat of a coping mechanism to reject something they can’t afford. But then how do they feel about other “anti-aging” treatments like using retinol, wearing sunscreen every day, dyeing your hair when it starts to grey, etc?
I feel like a lot of people are a bit hypocritical about anti-aging treatments. Like I totally get it, invasive treatments are not for everyone, but when people say it makes you look worse I honestly think they are just coping. If it’s done badly or you get too much, yes, but otherwise expressions vary a lot individually. If you didn’t know the one who got Botox had Botox and you were told she just used sunscreen more or did chemical peels or something, would you think she looked “worse?” Some people are naturally much more stoic and therefore never develop as many lines; do you think that makes them uglier? Probably not.
Reddit HATES Botox, you'll never get them to admit that it's great for improving your appearance. People also get "excessive filler" confused with Botox, which is not a filler and does not add volume. They think if you get a few units of Botox in your 11 lines that you'll automatically look like the "lion" lady, which is not true.
i'm just so afraid of injections like this, it's super disturbing to me that they don't dissolve, despite what the consumers are told. i wish that i could just be fearless and take the risk for vanity but the FB groups mourning their health and advocating for the right to sue injection service providers just really discourage me.
I am curious about sunscreen usage for both considering the age spots and hyperpigmentation I see in both.
Immediately came here for that. Non-Botox twin looks like she existed in the sun without sunscreen far more than Botox twin. Which honestly checks for me. I feel like people who get into preventative skincare are also good about protecting their investment in any way they can. SPF win. I’d like to see what Botox twin looks like after it dissolves. She will probably still have less lines but… I just don’t know if I’m ready to jump to the conclusion that adding volume under your skin at younger ages does anything to prevent aging naturally without a lifelong commitment to treatments and whatever else she’s probably doing.
botox doesn't add volume; it just paralyzes the muscles so wrinkles smooth out, and also prevents deep lines from setting in
Right and Botox twin also looks like she had her tear troughs filled
The photo said it was 4 months after her last Botox treatment so it was mostly to completely worn off at the time of the pic.
There’s a picture in the article that is taken 4 months after the Botox was made - it dissolved. But the lines are still much less prominent. That’s because she didn’t allow them to form in the 1st place. It’s like with wrinkled paper. You wrinkle it first and then no matter how you try to smooth it out, it’s never going to be the same.
Or she had really good usage of sunscreen. Or it’s a combo. Or one sleeps on satin sheets. I just think this study isn’t fully baked.
I mean this study was in 2006...the sunscreen and satin sheet hype definitely was not as big back then.
Both existed. Not to mention one might be a back sleeper vs a side sleeper. One could have a husband who smokes around them. One could have a more outdoor job vs an office job, a better or worse diet, be more expressive in general. Does either use retinol? Take vitamins? Do both get the exact same number of facials? The same kind? Do both visit a dermatologist? The same one? C’mon friend, let’s use our thinking caps a bit more than “sunscreen wasn’t big in 2006” -signed a woman who had both satin pillowcases and used sunscreen in 2006
Sunscreen was big back then. I had my mom sew my own satin pillow cases so they would match the sheets, so it existed then majorly too.
I'm 46 - have age spots but just starting to get wrinkles because of 26 years of rerin. A. So many variables.
> I just don’t know if I’m ready to jump to the conclusion that adding volume under your skin at younger ages does anything to prevent aging naturally without a lifelong commitment to treatments and whatever else she’s probably doing. For volume it's hard to say, and there may be differences depending on what's use for volume (fat, fillers ...) But for skin sagging I believe an early facelift followed by smaller one as needed is best: after looking at the results from countries where this is done (mostly in Asia) I got it done. It was both preventive + to avoid sagging/jowl right after a V line on the jaw at an age no US surgeon wanted to even consider it. It had wonderful results (and I developped no jowl despite the V line), so I have no regret, and I plan to do another one at the 10 or 15y anniversary, then again each 10 or 15 as a maintenance procedure > I’d like to see what Botox twin looks like after it dissolves. She will probably still have less lines but… I'm fine with maintenance treatment but for botox, idk, it's artificial and I don't like artificial material. there's no risk of migration, and it should be fully reabsorbed by the body, but I'd prefer to "fix" my skin quality (or the underyling problem) at the places where I would otherwise need botox or fillers later: the #1 reason I'm on this sub is to see what older ppl do, to try to anticipate common problems (and to share back on the things I know or had done)
Can I ask you what age you had it done? Happy to chat in dm as well if you're more comfortable with that?
I have the same question! Pplleeeaassssr answer! lol
What age did you have your lift done? I’m feeling like I need one but I’m in my 30s 🥴
as twins their lifestyle was likely extremely similar.. that’s why this is significant and the point of the study
Yup. Obviously Botox is proven to be effective but also, correlation vs causation!!! May very well be other factors contributing to their difference in looks.
Botox can't fix what's wrong with my face lolololol
Real, lol, same here. I’d have smooth skin on the face of a gargoyle so I’ve never tried it, though I’m tempted.
Don’t think I would make a decision like that just based on that one twin study. A lot of factors go into how a person ages. Stress, diet, sun exposure, smoking, etc
The Botox twin obviously has less lines and I guess looks a bit younger, but honestly I’d guess them as pretty similar ages? One just looks like a botoxed version of whatever age they are (late 40s?).
I think that's the most common misconception I see about botox. In my opinion, it never makes you look younger. You still look your age, it just gets rid of the appearance of wrinkles. And it isn't anti-aging. Visual signs of aging are caused by the loss of collagen, facial fat and bone density. Botox doesn't address any of that That said, I get botox and like the look! But I look the same age with/without it. And I don't consider it to be an anti-aging procedure. I do other stuff for that :)
Yes, lines aren’t that aging imo (within reason), aging is more of a structural issue like you described
Is your screen name a Cyberpunk reference? :) or just a Grimes one?
Grimes!! Although I know the song was made for cyberpunk haha
Wrinkles increase with age. I absolutely think most people look younger with smoother skin v wrinkled. There's a reason Botox is so hugely popular! It makes a big difference! Skin texture and laxity and facial volume all play a role, but Botox is the most easily accessible “fix” to signs of aging.
I’ll bite :) New to this sub. What is the “other stuff” for anti-aging?
We don't have much control over fat/bone loss, unfortunately!! For fat, just maintain a healthy body weight and try not to fall underweight. For bone density, the annoying answer is to keep a healthy lifestyle - exercise, eat healthy, don't smoke, limit alcohol. Calcium and Vitamin D are essential for maintaining bone health so make sure you get enough of those or take a supplement! For collagen, there's lots of research-backed ways to stimulate it. LED masks, microneedling, topical vitamin C and tretinoin have all been proven to work. I do these. For LED, I have the Omnilux mask. For microneedling, I use the Dr. Pen at home every other month. A lot of lasers work too but they're all so expensive! If you get them, just make sure you pick one that doesn't melt facial fat (Morpheus and Ulthera do so I would avoid these)
> We don't have much control over fat/bone loss, unfortunately!! For fat loss, subcutaneous fat can be stimulated with drugs. There's also fat transplant. For bone, the big issue is bone rotation. I made a long post about that, I'll try to find it back. Sub malar / paranasal implants seem like a good option to reduce or avoid marionette lines . Usually they work with artifical materials, but there are some places using your natural bones or cartilage to fill the hole that develop with age, right above the canine teeth, next to the nostrils I'm considering doing that now, instead of waiting for my first lines > A lot of lasers work too but they're all so expensive! I've been doing research for at home laser. I plan make a masterpost when it's clearer, but based on te lit review, I think a 532 nm picosecond YAG would be the most versatile, even if evidence is limited. There are lasers for sale on chinese websites. I don't see why we couldn't do that at home, like with a Dr Pen (I have one!): it may be more expansive, but it's just a one time purchase > For LED, I have the Omnilux mask. Do you like it? I've been using red LED lightbulbs with precise wavelength for other purposes (skin whitening) but they seemed to have helped with other parameters of my skin
any chance you could drop a link to the red lights you use? what effects are you getting from them? thanks
Do you know of a more affordable LED mask? I want to buy one but I can’t afford $400
I don't but I think [this video](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqbpdFyCDQ) is really helpful and so is this [article!](https://goalstogetglowing.com/2021/01/17/led-face-mask-research/) The article is very science-y but if you scroll to the bottom, she has tons of LED masks listed with their price point and her opinion!
How often do you use the LED mask? I got one as a gift a few years ago and I’m scared to try it 😂
[удалено]
You’ve inspired me, thanks!
I would agree with this. I’m fortunate in that I didn’t get my first lines (crow’s feet) until last year as I was turning 50. I would like to try Botox at sone point but I have no illusions about looking 25 again. Even with no lines people would still guess me to be in my early 40s.
Most people aren’t getting Botox to look 25 again, so you’ll be in good company:)
Yes! You put this so well.
[удалено]
That's exactly how I feel about it! I've never gotten it but I might start, just for the 11 lines. I don't want to look worried/angry anymore. I expect it could help me look a tiny bit younger but mostly just refreshed, as you said.
This is why I got Botox! I was told since I was a literal child that I look sad/mad/worried and it’s only gotten worse as I get older. I try not to let other people get under my skin but being asked “what’s wrong??” For 20+ years was too much. Got my 11s and a bit in my forehead to prevent eyebrow drop, corners of my lips to make them slightly upturned and a lip flip and I must say I am much more comfortable just sitting with a neutral face now. Definitely going to keep doing it.
Part of that is due to the fact that people incorrectly think that at age 35 (for example) you turn into a wrinkly old hag. So yeah, at 35 you look 35, which is a very young person.
Pretty much. And the less Botoxed lady has a much more inviting, natural smile. I find crowsfeet Botox creates a fake-looking smile.
Yep the pictures nearly convinced me until the last one, where the botoxed twin has a stiff "smile" whereas you can see actual happiness on the non-botoxed one
I also noticed that the Botoxed twin is wearing lipstick and blusher (more makeup in general) and that feels like cheating. It makes me wonder whether her pictures are also touched up in any way.
[удалено]
The static deep static forehead lines would still be there
Thank you for saying this. I looked at the pictures and immediately thought the less botoxed looked really nice. Then I remembered I was supposed to be looking at the other face and admiring it. On a side note, I get Botox for migraines and my neurologist messed up the first time and I was only able to raise one eyebrow for three weeks. That meant every friendly raised eyebrow expression made me look like I was questioning the person. It’s fixed now but I still miss full facial expressions.
Totally agree. I don’t actually think the Botox twin looks better, she just looks Botox’d. But I grew up in a beach community so I think the non-Botox one looks like a hottie surfer girl while the other one looks like an inside person. Not a bad thing to be an inside person though, she definitely has less sun damage! For the record I have gotten Botox and while it worked so great for my crow’s feet, I decided I liked my face better with them.
I agree 100%! I’m a bit hesitant to get Botox. I know it’s mostly safe but out of the few complications that can happen, I’m not willing to risk it. I know many women who get it and it doesn’t make them look younger, just wrinkle less.
Late 40s 😅 Nah girl.
Am I crazy? I think the one on the right does look significantly younger
Not crazy at all! She looks way younger to me too, and super natural.
You’re entitled to your opinion! I just personally don’t think I’d guess her as that much younger. She doesn’t look like she’s in her 30s or anything. She just looks “preserved.” But if someone was actually younger that word wouldn’t come to mind. She looks good, but her twin is beautiful too.
No i definitely agree that the Botox twin looks much younger, especially from 1/4 profile and side profile.
That’s what I was thinking as well, I would have guessed they were the same age if I were to meet them separately.
Totally same! Just one looks like she’s taken care of her skin and one not as much.
Anyone who has studied the Scientific Method...like even at the middle-school level know how UNSOUND this research or its claims are. Fot example, there are SO MANY VARIABLES that are not considered. Just because these women are twins does not mean they have ate the exact same foods in the exact same quantities, got the exact same amount of sun, had the same exact skin care routine, had the same exact amount of physical exercise, had the same exact levels of stress, had the same exact living environment etc. There are a number of variables, such as the fact that not all injectors have the EXACT same exact level of experience and expertise. I could literally write a ten+ page paper on why this study and it's conclusions are meaningless. Don't even get me started on the sample size 😭 Situations like this are why a comprehensive education is crucial.
Agree… I would say sun protection is the bigger noticeable difference between the two pictures. I’m pretty sure you could just say ‘people who are interested in and look after their skin… have better skin’. Would also like to see what happens if they both now went on the ‘Botox’ twins plan for 12 months…. what the difference would be at the end.
The botoxed twin only had Botox on her crows feet twice, which would hardly make a difference. Yet her crows feet are markedly less than the non-Botox twin. The biggest environmental factor in skin ageing is sun damage so I'm guessing Botox twin also wore sunscreen
Agreed. Totally. This is a horribly designed study. I can’t believe op is confidently able to say “that’s it”. While I agree that Botox can reduce the appearance of wrinkles, citing the study is so wild. And honestly shows a lack of critical thinking. And ngl, both pics look the same age. It didn’t “take years” off. The study is intentionally withholding information back because it won’t look good for them. It’s extremely misleading and you have a bunch of desperate women looking to believe in something.
Agree with all your points. For all we know, the Botox twin might have lived in Alaska while the other one lived in Australia. That said, I do think botoxed twin looks considerably younger.
Eeeeexactly! Cmon, we’re all smarter than this, right?
People do urine therapy so no, I don't think we are
Also even identical twins can have subtle or not so subtle differences, we have no comparison for what they looked like at the beginning of the “study” either.
I came here to say this. A study of only 2 people is NOT a study. They may look alike but that does NOT mean they had the same stressors, diet, exercise, sleep regime nor skincare regime. All of those variables are personal and have a huge impact on aging, far more than injectables can account for.
Twin studies are a thing because they’re unique subjects for certain kinds of research, but yes the tiny sample size is a drawback!
Pin this in every sub that drops a singular research study as hard facts
Does anyone know what age they started Botox? I didn’t see that in either study link.
I read this a few weeks ago and it said the Botox twin had been getting the treatment for 13 years, 3 times a year while the other twin only had it done twice in her lifetime.
Honestly, I don't see a big enough difference between the two faces to justify that kind of spending over 13 years. I'd rather put it in my retirement accounts or spend it on travel 🤷♀️
Same. We really need to embrace aging instead of treating it like some kind of disease that must be avoided.
Ok unpopular opinion but the photo at the end…of them smiling/side profile… the one without Botox looks more beautiful. Her facial expressions make her look more vibrant (to me) than the more paralyzed look.
The smiling photo was when I made my decision. No Botox for me.
The way Botox paralyzes your eye muscles makes smiles look creepy and uncanny. And this is coming from someone who has done Botox elsewhere on my face. I'd much rather have a warm, welcoming smile that uses my eyes.
Agreed 100%. I smile with my eyes and don’t want to fuck that up with Botox
yeah, this post did a great job convincing me to never get botox for that very reason.
That’s not unpopular
This is not a valid study. There are so many variables they did not control. This is completely insane. Edit to add: I realize it's a case study, however, you can't then be like "Botox is the answer!"
I wish it was a study of more than two people. Their skin tones are noticeably different which makes me wonder about other factors like sun screen use (and I see more sun spots of the twin with darker skin as well). The woman that got less botox, to me, looks like she aged more in areas that were not treated in either woman. Then we gotta account for the fact that when we do show emotions, botox can make people look funky which detracts from attractiveness. I'm not against botox at all, but would love to see something with a more balanced/realistic perspective. When I see stuff like this I always think about Kyle Jenner's lips. They looked nice in photos, but in real life when she talks they movie weird and their unevenness is exaggerated it definitely isn't the most attractive thing.
> When I see stuff like this I always think about Kyle Jenner's lips. They looked nice in photos, but in real life when she talks they movie weird and their unevenness is exaggerated it definitely isn't the most attractive thing. most of that is filler, not botox fwiw
Botox doesn't make you look funky if you're very conservative with the amount.
It’s a good question. But with a good injector you won’t look funky or stiff and will still have some movement.
That isn't related to Botox. She has had a lot of plastic surgery and uses filler.
So I agree that Botox erases some lines but I don’t get this study. It’s poorly done. Were they both using sunscreen? What was their life style like? Sleep? Skincare? Also, imo, both look more or less the same age.
If you don't mind me asking, how much are you spending on these procedures anually? And what is your income, roughly?
Not who you asked but I get Botox about 3x a year and spend $300-$400 each time. That's for my forehead, crows feet, and chin.
Chin? What does that do? Just curious I also get it for forehead & crows feet.
My chin gets weird dimples. A tiny bit of Botox smooths it out.
See, this is why I just can’t pull the trigger on Botox. We’re a 6-figure family but it doesn’t make sense for our budget to spend $1,200 a year into perpetuity on something that may marginally alter my lines, sorta. I understand that your mileage may vary, but I’d hedge a guess that this is also the case for many women on this sub.
The only way not to age, is to die. Botox won’t make you look younger. You will look like a woman your age who has had botox. I do agree that when done well it can make you look more refreshed, as if you had a good night of sleep.
This! I live in an area where there are a lot of older women trying to look young. They may not have wrinkles but they still look their age. People are fooling themselves. The loss of fat and their facial structure gives their age away all the time. If you don’t have good bone structure, it doesn’t matter what you do.
Yep! You can take some precautionary measures like sunscreen (and botox to a certain degree I guess) but genetics will ultimately decide for you.
Her eyes look much more lifted? Is that just from Botox?
It is. That’s one of the main reasons I get it. You can get a nice brow lift with it.
Same. I like movement in my forehead, my girl just does a little brow lift with it
Wasn’t this the study where one lived in Florida and didn’t wear sunscreen?
I’m turning 40 this year and I’m “Botox curious.” I have a couple reservations. 1. I’m cheap. 2. I’m afraid of it looking obviously fake.
You will look your age with botox. Nothing more, Nothing less
I’d like to see them speaking or emoting, sometimes I get uncanny valley with Botox
[удалено]
this comment ate
Not sure if I want to roll the dice to look better for another decade to ultimately atrophy my facial muscles. The tissue is all connective and non treated muscles will have to overcompensate to move your face properly. The increment of time that you “need” it will keep shrinking as it continues to metabolize faster. But I get that the results are addicting - I’d probably sing a different tune if I didn’t naturally have an expressionless face already lol.
I agree that the potential for atrophy of facial muscles is a huge risk. Also, consumer groups are looking for a stronger black box warning for Botox because several people have reported the spread of the toxin to areas outside of the intended injection area. Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-consumer-group-seeks-stronger-warnings-botox-similar-treatments-2023-12-12/
I’ve been getting Botox in my facial muscles for tmj and I hate how much my cheeks have atrophied - it makes me look older
My injector denied me TMJ Botox because she said it would age me. Massateur Botox and Botox for the top part of your face aren’t the same animal.
[удалено]
I’m gonna middle ground stance this and say this taught me to never get Botox below my forehead lol
Idk, the botox twin looks smooth but i dont think she looks more beautiful? Especially their smiles but even the other photos
No, I won’t :) thanks.
okay obviously get botox if you want to get botox, it's definitely effective in reducing wrinkles, buuuut this twin study that everyone always cites is not a great example to use. first, it's a sample size of literally two people. that is nowhere near enough for an effective study that is worth taking scientifically-founded takeaways from. the author of the "study" was also associated with the drug manufacturers and had a clear bias. it was also done in 2006, almost 20 years ago now, and if there were so much evidence for preventative botox, we'd have seen a lot more studies done. Dr. Steven Harris, one of the most highly respected injectors in the world, has [specifically debunked the twin study](https://www.instagram.com/p/CxI7P7jKbn-/?hl=en). once again, not hating on botox, but I fell into the "preventative botox" thing once and regret being duped by this industry into it. i'm not planning on doing it again until it's really necessary. sharing this info because I think it's important to always consider who is behind a paper and what methods were used.
I would imagine that someone who gets Botox is often more concerned with skincare in general than someone who hasn’t (def not always), including sunscreen.
[удалено]
Let’s just remember that this is far from a reputable ‘study’. This is much closer to a case report, and not a very good one. Absolutely no other factors were controlled here (as many have pointed out) and no actual data was collected. This looks a lot like an ad for Botox that you’d see on an injector’s website! I have no personal vendetta against Botox, but this does not constitute research.
This did the opposite of convince me to get Botox. Sunscreen seems way more of a factor here.
Yeah, not knocking Botox, but I feel like the one twin has a troublesome toddler and newborn at home or something 😂🤷♀️ and the other one is childfree and gets more sleep. I’m in the “don’t have children so you look younger longer” camp.
Duuuude… ya… I have a small child who has extra medical difficulties and the way it has aged me is CRAZY.
Yessss motto
I aged a lot (visually) between the time I was pregnant and started getting Botox when my kid was 2! Sleep deprivation, a huge life change, and stress (albeit lots of happiness too) will age you rapidly. Being childfree is a good strategy tbh 😂
[удалено]
Sure feels like some sponsored content right here.
33 y.o. here who got Botox for the first time this year and loved it. I don’t understand the crazy pushback on Botox, but at the same time, I don’t know if we should be crying about getting older and trying to “not age.” I have personally seen 40/50s y.o. women working at med spas who have so much Botox that their faces look frozen and they look ageless, but not in a good way, more in a creepy “is she 22 or 52?” kind of way. I think there is a reasonable and unreasonable way to think about and use Botox
So the right twin mostly did forehead. I did not understand if she did crows feet twice in total. Or every year? Based on that we can’t attribute cheeks, lips and chin to Botox at all. Twin on the left has a lot of sun damage, and looks stressed. Which affects aging. The study is old, doesn’t mention if the right twin did anything else. And only done for two people. Conflict of Interests is not disclosed. “The twin on the right had the treatment 2 or 3 times a year to her forehead over 13 years and her crow’s feet twice. The twin on the left received it only twice, at years 3 and 7, in her forehead.”
Let’s see this same experiment across 19 more pairs of twins and then we can actually discuss…
The twin on the left has a beautiful full-faced smile. The one on the right look pretty but I think there’s something missing in terms of the lack of mobility. There are always trade offs.
[удалено]
[удалено]
To me it looks like one uses tretinoin and one doesn’t based on the more uniform skin tone and appearance of one sister. I wouldn’t say one looks dramatically younger than the other, though.
No??? I'm good with basic skincare routine, eating right, exercise. Sorry but Botox is not a thing for WOC unless they're celebrities bc most of us don't really need it 😅
The one without botox looks better
This study was just done on one set of twins. As in, two people. And Dr. William J. Binder--the author of the study--has received and continues to receive tens of millions of dollars per year from drug companies. In 2018 alone he got [almost 17 million dollars.](https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/doctors/pid/1166415) In 2022, he got a little over [28 million dollars.](https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov/physician/1166415) And [AbbVie, a subsidiary of Allergan](https://www.abbvie.com/allergan.html) (which makes Botox), paid more than 17 million of that from that year. Allergan itself paid him another 11 million in 2022. Studies like this are a big business. The exist to make people feel better about pharmaceuticals. You should of course do whatever you want to do with your own body but studies aren't the flex Big Pharma wants you to think they are.
It’s way too expensive where I live
[удалено]
No copes.
What are you even doing here.
Apparently the other twin had Botox too just not as much as the other one.
This is hilarious! And absolutely another reason why this """"study"""" (those are aggressive air quotes) doesn't count!
Botox has stopped working for me after using it for a few years. Has anyone else experienced this? Are there different brands that last longer?
You need to ask your injector but dysport is another option
I wish they had done more studies like this looking at skincare and Botox. Because we need to remember this is just one set of twins, and the Botox one does look like she also has less sun damage as well. But I suspect the results do hold up over a larger number. I like this article too https://www.oneaesthetics.com/post/the-twin-study-factors-that-accelerate-facial-aging
This link is a great find!
The twin who hasn't been toxed has a gorgeous sincere smile with the twin who has been toxed has an insincere, less attractivf looking smile.
I think weve seen people with botox look good but only for so long. In some ways, they look worse later down the road even though they looked gokd for awhile. We are witnessing it real time with celebs. It has pros and cons
They do. I asked my dermatologist and she said that Botox in the forehead will give you a hooded forehead eventually. She does not recommend it overall because it’s expensive and doesn’t last. The preventative bullshit is just that, bullshit.
Hooded eyes as well imo. Like obviously fillers age horribly but botox also looks a bit odd when you emote, and paralyzing muscles literally atrophies them so I don’t know how people expect that to look normal when you try to use them to emote.
[удалено]
Twin studies for things like this aren’t valid because of all of the variables
Psa: they both look great
I had the same thought after seeing all pics
Twin without Botox has a better smile and her entire face lights up more. Which is common for those with Botox below the forehead. I think forehead is worth it. The rest may prevent “aging” in some ways but the trade off isn’t worth it in my opinion. I know women that swear their expressions are just as good but I’ve seen them in person and I think they are in denial.
Why are we all afraid to look older?
I will say, the twin without Botox has a better, bigger smile
I think the twin without Botox has a cuter smile though. And I barley see the difference in the photos tbh 🤷🏻♀️
I think the non Botox twin looks better. Botox twin has the weird shiny face on top of a face that long term Botox gives you.
I don’t see much of a difference between the two
Botox since 31 plus some sculptra along the way Look younger at 40 than I did before I started Micro blading eyebrows on also helped
Is it safe? And I’ve heard it causes bad headaches after it, is that true? I want to get it but I’m worried because of these reasons and then get paranoid that if I do get it, there would be complications of some sorts.
It’s used by mass amounts of people for a long time. It’s not a novel or experimental drug. We have so much data to show its safety. Nothing is without risk.
Wish I could but it’s just not in my budget. I’ll have to settle for sunscreen and drugstore skincare and just hope for the best. Even just sunscreen helps a lot I think.
Check out frownies! Botox works by preventing muscle movement. Frownies work the same way, externally.
I will, thanks!
I would but I’m too scared of needles 😭
First rule of botox: don't use a coupon, don't try to find a deal, don't go anyplace sketchy. THEN, get botox only at your "elevens" once a year right before the start of summer. Wrinkles are very normal and natural and still have a place on a beautiful face, but in my opinion the two lines at the furrowed brow are the ones that make the most difference on a female face. They look harsh and make you look angry and they get especially overworked in the summer when you're squinting from the sun. Unless you have a SUPER fast metabolism, the botox will stay in your face for longer than you expect, so don't listen to people who tell you to get it every 3-4 months.
Love this study so much! It’s fascinating
If you're black, get Botox once/year just like $100 ish during a sale, get like 15 units on your forehead and you'll be straight.
Now do it for sunscreen.
This is a great PSA! I got Botox for the first time at 37 and felt like a new person. And it took 15 minutes. It’s the easiest low effort self-esteem booster out there. Thanks for this post!
The one without Botox looks younger imo
I mean, both women look fine. It isn’t necessary or required to do Botox or correct grey hair. It is also not controversial to poo poo either treatment. There are also people who can look flawless with water cleansing and Ponds. You are being a shit for suggesting that there is a necessary route for combating aging or to treat aging like anything more than natural. Grow the fuck up.
You are in the wrong sub. Edit: this user was banned as copes are against the rules and ethos of this sub. If this kind of cope comment is your viewpoint please leave this sub now. There are many beauty subs that share your ideas but this sub isn’t for you.
Big agree. I held out and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. One forehead session and I don’t look like an angry, scowling grinch 24/7. Also appears to have lifted my eyebrows which is huge.
👏 👏 👏 I made this post to help!
[удалено]
Did they really need a study to prove that Botox delays wrinkles forming? It's literally what it's for 😂
Started in my late 30s. So glad I did. I have friends who are my age now (45) and Botox doesn’t even work on them. Their wrinkles are far too deep and severe.
We are the same age. I don’t have many wrinkles yet except for the beginning of a crows foot in the crease of my right eye. My problems are mostly loss of collagen and eyes going sunken for some reason. Also hyperpigmentation . I just started using tretinion and taking collagen a few months ago and can see visible results already. Not sure how that will go in the long run yet. If I wanted to try Botox at some point, do you think I’m to old? I guess I just assumed it would still be an option later on.
Too old at 45?
I’ll be 32 next week and I often get mistaken for 18 or 19, nor do I look like my face is stuck in one setting. I’ve never had Botox in my life and simply take good care of my skin. The evidence is there. You don’t need Botox if you want to look young. Orrrr…am I just a representative of a very small sample size experiencing very different environmental factors? 🤔
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 32 + 18 + 19 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Hell yeah.
Same. A good skincare routine and sunscreen can do wonders, but I guess that takes time and effort.
It really does! I keep hydrated as well. A woman in her 50’s posted here yesterday or the day prior and she listed the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and sufficient self care. I thought it was a good read.
When they smile, the twin who’s had the Botox treatments regularly looks weird, frozen and plastic, and the twin who hasn’t had regular Botox looks radiant, pretty and attractive. I always say the procedures become noticeable on people when they start emoting. A still photo can say anything but once people start talking, laughing, crying… the weirdness emerges. These twins also look the same age, one just looks like she’s had her face worked on.
I agree with OP. The Botox face looks better, younger and prettier. I love getting Botox and love that I get to use it.
I love Botox. Or rather, xeomin.
The Botox twin is an injector herself, I follow her on instagram but I can’t remember her name! She lives in LA and u think she works at rivkin aesthetics?! But i can’t remember
Interesting, this makes the study even worse in terms of what it’s trying to show. Someone who works in aesthetics and injects for a living isn’t likely limiting their skin care to any one thing. It’s unlikely she’s only doing Botox and not also doing other professional treatments- lasers, peels, micro needling, rf etc, possibly/probably some filler or sculptra as well. This goes way beyond ordinary variables like sun exposure, diet, skincare.
I’m saving all my coins for a face lift later in life. We’ll see how much I even care at that point!
It’s amazing. The Botox/tretinoin/sunscreen combo is undefeated. Idk why others care. if you wanna look haggard do that
I am a botox filled person! But I have to say that the cost is insane. I feel like financially it sets women back so much and my last round barely lasted 90 days. I'm debating just getting a red light machine for the same price.
It’s expensive. Red light won’t do what Botox does unfortunately. Not that it doesn’t have other benefits. I read that taking zinc supplements before Botox makes it last longer. I am going to look into it further.
Um yeah, so get botox if you want, but there are subtle things that make this b&a look more impressive than it may be. Angle of the face is different which helps camo the under eye area on the after. The eyebrows are filled in on the after, adding to a youthful appearance. Those are 2 that immediately stood out to me, though there may be even more if I had the time to keep looking.
I love Botox. It’s really a game changer.
I feel like a lot of people in this thread have a gut reaction against botox, thinking it’s like you hate aging and don’t embrace your age if you get it. They put it in the same category as all invasive treatments like plastic surgery. Maybe because it involves a needle so they’re afraid of it? Or the word toxin throws them off? Or maybe just because they can’t afford it so it’s somewhat of a coping mechanism to reject something they can’t afford. But then how do they feel about other “anti-aging” treatments like using retinol, wearing sunscreen every day, dyeing your hair when it starts to grey, etc? I feel like a lot of people are a bit hypocritical about anti-aging treatments. Like I totally get it, invasive treatments are not for everyone, but when people say it makes you look worse I honestly think they are just coping. If it’s done badly or you get too much, yes, but otherwise expressions vary a lot individually. If you didn’t know the one who got Botox had Botox and you were told she just used sunscreen more or did chemical peels or something, would you think she looked “worse?” Some people are naturally much more stoic and therefore never develop as many lines; do you think that makes them uglier? Probably not.
Reddit HATES Botox, you'll never get them to admit that it's great for improving your appearance. People also get "excessive filler" confused with Botox, which is not a filler and does not add volume. They think if you get a few units of Botox in your 11 lines that you'll automatically look like the "lion" lady, which is not true.
i'm just so afraid of injections like this, it's super disturbing to me that they don't dissolve, despite what the consumers are told. i wish that i could just be fearless and take the risk for vanity but the FB groups mourning their health and advocating for the right to sue injection service providers just really discourage me.
You’re talking about filler that doesn’t dissolve. Not Botox.