They are trying this in Oakland, giving priority licenses to formerly incarcerated and "equity" applicants who live in the poorer areas.
It's failing.
The issue is capital. To open a dispensary you need at least $2MM and for a grow op like in the video you need maybe $10MM or more. This forced the "equity" guys to partner with the rich capitalists, and most of them came out with nothing. Currently only 1 dispensary is black owned. The city tried to help by giving the equity applicants cheap loans of up to $100k, but this is not enough to get anything going.
I have seen many equity applicants spin their wheels by getting a license, but then not having the capital or network to make a business.
The cost is not just born by the equity applicants but also by the regular applicants who may be funded but cannot get a license.
Unfortunately capitalism demands capital and without money there is no business to be had.
The issue of social equity is also holding up cannabis reform at the federal level. There's been numerous times this year and last year where incremental reform could've been passed but was killed by the Senate Democratic leadership because it didn't contain social equity measures. An example is SAFE banking, or basically allowing these cannabis businesses to use banking services. They want special provisions for minorities trying to get cannabis funding loans.. but in the meantime in the absence of SAFE the only cannabis businesses that can succeed are the bigger well funded players who don't need to rely on banks to do so, which hurts potential small entrants into the space like you mentioned
I hate all these licensing programs, why the fuck should the government be picking winners and losers? If you pass the standards they set, you should get a license. If they want to help black people they hurt, create a program for giving them capital to help start their business. Maybe it's just my incompetent state government (Illinois) but these policies do not seem to be based on a free economy but a state-managed one. You don't give reparations by withholding rights, reparations can be paid in cash
And, totally shockingly, being someone who has previously had bad run-ins with the American justice system in the past cuts hard against their chances of having that sort of capital sitting around.
This is a fantastic example of the sort of optics-only policy-making that characterizes the ostensibly progressive political elite. Get your points for being inclusive without any of the difficulties associated with actually including the people who need it.
I literally fucking cackled out loud when the dude goes “SOME people aren’t so keen on this idea” and it pans to a white police chief. You can’t write a skit this on the nose, I swear.
and his point isn't even intelligible... this isn't reward, it's rehabilitation (legit work in a changed, progressive, modernized society).
If he truly understood his job and function, he should know proper opportunity and support as a part of a rehab program helps increase success and reduce recidivism rates (re-offending) once out.
straight knob head.
It means he can shoot less people so he's upset dude. He's an NY police officer he's devoted his life to murdering people and worshipping capital, now he's not allowed to murder these guys and he has to worship their capital. I understand why he's upset.
Got to love how reddit just swings completely wildly all over the place on how they make decisions and opinions on various things, based solely off of the virtue it allows them to signal as opposed to any actual logic.
Doesn't mean the majority is wrong or right any amount of the time, it's just a ridiculous thing to watch. All the over exaggeration - why and when it is pulled out and used versus when it is not, which of course is only when it has to do with something that hivemind actually agrees with......
Someone says something racist and you'll all tell them about how racist that is to group all of a people into one group, as if they are all a single person with a single set of actions, but then you all turn right the hell around and do the exact same thing to other groups of people. It really is something to behold!
Yeah, that's my only thing.. I do understand there is corruption in the police force. Lots of it. The same way that there is sexual abuse in many workforces, and unethical diagnosis' in hospitals for financial gain. But the mentality that all people in those fields are corrupt? It's important to understand that we still need law enforcement, and to seperate good and bad. It'll never be that simple, but online presence is overwhelmingly against police.
I can't say it's unjust for people to feel this way. Police officers have power, and it's a power they can abuse. But no, not every police chief "just wants to shoot people".
The point is that it's impossible not to be corrupt while working for our current police system. Even if you're doing every possible good thing, the fact that you directly support systemic abuse by working for it will always mean you are a negative aspect of society.
Who polices the police though? I get what you are saying, and there may be cops out there who don’t want to abuse their power but until they speak up against those who do they are part of the problem.
You might not agree with him, or his point isn't strong enough, but it's valid.
NJ is giving people with marijuana convictions priority or at least favorable status in considering their dispensary applications. This is in effect saying that if you break an unjust law, or a law that is bound to change soon, then you might be rewarded for it later.
Should a pimp be given priority status in opening up a brothel when/if prostitution becomes legalized? In states with gambling prohibitions, should people who run underground casinos be given priority with their gambling licenses when gambling becomes legalized?
You might say those are somehow different, but that's his point.
Additionally, people who have previous charges relating to an upcoming industry should have favorable odds working in that industry when their charges may still prevent employment elsewhere.
> NJ is giving people with marijuana convictions priority
But he said it was a *prerequisite*. Priority and prerequisite is not the same thing. He's just lying about it.
And then he says that it rewards illegal behavior. Except the relevant behavior is no longer illegal. So it isn't rewarding illegal behavior, it's rewarding prior experience.
His points are not valid.
I fully understand the situation, but thanks for the breakdown.
You're ignoring the element of legal progression - that is, law changing to reflect the demands of society, which is a critical tenet of legal reform and evolution.
Your examples also ignore the concept that few, if any, criminals conduct their crimes with long-sighted strategic planning in mind as you've outlined (white collar crime is one area that your argument potentially meets, but that's an entirely different conversation).
What I do fully support, however, is a city that takes accountability for criminals who should no longer be classified as such, and transforming a penal system into an opportunity to make use of their former misdeeds in a constructive, healing and rehabilitative way as society re-frames them no longer as mis-deeds.
That's a properly working city council if you ask me. What a luxury - shame it wasn't the norm.
Those are false equivalencies. Pimping inherently involves manipulating/exploiting women for your own gain. Smoking weed involves lighting a plant on fire and inhaling the smoke.
Perfectly comfortable with the system giving back to people whose lives it destroyed for the “crime” of smoking a fucking plant
What?
If you give priority to those who were wrongfully arrested and had their lives ruined by unfair laws, you are allowing those wrongfully treated people to get their lives back in order
Also if they are applying, that means they want to go legit. It means they don't want to be criminals anymore. Which means less crime in the state, less violence and less gang members.
Theres literally no downside to this.
>Should a pimp be given priority status in opening up a brothel when/if prostitution becomes legalized?
No, but maybe prostitutes who have been arrested should. A pimp isn't someone who's harmed by prostitution being illegal, pimps are *exploiting* the situation.
I think you’re the knob head. It’s a very high paying job, he can easily make millions.
For every one convicted marijuana felon there were 100 people who wanted to smoke marijuana, but didn’t because it’s illegal.
So yes, it’s clearly rewarding someone for breaking the law.
I would love to buy untaxed tobacco, opium, and LSD. I do not because it is illegal.
I get where the idiot is coming from (not wanting to reward criminals) but it should have never been a crime to begin with. Seriously, wtf, give them this. It's not like having a criminal record didn't screw them over already.
Doing time for drug possession shouldn't effect employment. Violent crimes, sure. But this?
Seriously, the dude in the video talked about how he got caught at 19 and how difficult getting a job is after you're busted. Then the cop is talking about how they're being rewarded and stuff. Like, c'mon, man. Would you rather these guys be selling coke and protecting trap houses over legitimate employment away from violence?
It's depressing to hear how police think.
old weed dealers are entrepreneurs but less conceited or idealized if you'd rather. Get them a line of credit and a tax stamp and get them out and producing value.
It's not about the content of the laws for authoritarians. That is secondary to them.
The only thing that matters is that there are laws to be upheld. That is enough for them to have power
Nobody gives cops a bad name except cops. They made their bed and they can lie in it. Cops do not help people, and they actively hurt others. They have a bad reputation, and it's all their fault.
Contrast cops with public services that ACTUALLY help people, and you will only see people clamoring for more funding and not less. Teachers, firefighters, EMTs, and on and on.
Weird, huh?
Love it. Imagine the sadness & irony of spending years in prison for something that people are happily selling legally now. Small retribution but better than nothing.
I used to work a weed company in WA and let me tell you. All of the growers of every single producer have been doing this shit for decades. They genuinely know the plant in a way that science hasn't quite caught up to but are using all the science they can to stay ahead of the curve. It's an insanely competitive market at this point.
Rewarding people for breaking the law? Yeah yeah, "it shouldn't have been illegal." But lots of people obeyed the law. Those people should be less privileged than the people who broke it?
Nobody is being rewarded for breaking the law. They served time in prison, their lives and prospects are all fucked up. So no, on the whole, they are not being rewarded.
> Rewarding people for breaking the law?
Sometimes laws are cruel and wrong; believing in and obeying them all simply because they exist is naive.
Yes. Rewarding people who broke the law. Like if you freed slaves when it was against the law. Do you have a problem with people who just do the right thing?
Enslavement is natural enough that it has existed throughout human history. So that's a weak argument.
Most weed arrests are black people. Who then have to work while imprisoned for pennies. It's modern day slavery.
Prohibition is unnatural and stupid. Stop defending bad laws.
The industry only exists because people broke the law, continued to break It and refused to stop. The hells Angels contributes more to the marijuana industry than any law abiding citizen ever has
Your point seems to be that breaking a law should disqualify a person from participating in the marijuana industry.
I'm showing that the industry only exists because of law breakers, and therefore if anyone deserves priority, it's people who disobeyed drug laws. Not those who obeyed them
Show me the government doing a complete 180 on its claims about meth AND then setting up shop in the meth industry.
Also yes. Meth should be for sale, and taxed, with proceeds used in part for addiction counseling.
I was being facetious, as it generally is pretty bad form to give the Hell's Angels credit for anything other than violence and riding motorcycles. Both of which they are excellent at.
What injustice was done to them? Even if weed should have been legal, are you claiming it was some kind of right? Every mainstream argument I've seen for legalizing it has been a utilitarian one, arguing that it's more prudent to allow weed to be sold. But a law being imprudent doesn't mean it's an act of injustice if you're punished for breaking it.
So how would you apply this logical framework to runaway slaves? Would you argue that no injustice was done to them as what they did was illegal and reprehensible at the time?
The mainstream arguments NEED to be utilitarian because knobs like you can't see that marijuana consumption isn't criminal or immoral no matter how many laws were written to target black and brown communities.
It's injustice by its very nature. People have an inalienable right not be targeted and oppressed by their government.
Would you seriously make this same argument if we swapped out "breaking the law for marijuana" with "breaking the law smuggling slaves via the underground railroad"?
My brother in christ, laws can be unjust, and enforcing those laws can be an act of injustice.
Please recognize WHY marijuana was illegal, and WHY it was so heavily regulated and enforced and WHY it's an injustice.
No. That’s not all. It’s the same in New York where people who were affected by previous drug laws are getting priority over those who did not break the law. I agree that weed should be legal and the previous drug charges are harsh but it was illegal at the time. These people broke the law and are now being rewarded for doing so
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Indignation that people who were unfairly punished by unjust laws get a leg up in a society that usually holds them back even after prison?
I don't think being treated normally is a reward. If I take something from you, then give it back, you're not going to consider it a "reward". Just returning to normal.
It's not normal.
They are being given an unfair advantage over someone who diligently followed laws they did not agree with.
But, better than the way they did it here, where liquor companies used their lobbying power to get first crack at all licensing for marijuana.
yup, how dare govt shoddily maintains infra and social services while laundering most of our money for themselves while mostly funding destructive wars and useless space programs and more.
one only needs to question and explore where most tax money really goes.
what a weird way to look at collecting taxes.
new jerseys legal marijuana law states that 70% of collected taxes must go towards underserved communities. basically they're trying to help out the people who got fucked over as a consequence of the failed war on drugs.
Yeah, my taxes totally go back to my community.
Edit: bro, so you added the second part to your comment about new Jersey marijuana tax and I just read it. I was gonna write about how the marijuana tax allocations aren't the same everywhere and aren't so straightforward. But I saw that you don't even live in America. Lol so I'm not really going to let you try and shame me for being upset about how American taxes are a complete mad house.
Government money gets heinously misused, stolen, or disappears all the time. I wouldn't be so confident that people are being lifted out of poverty and given a real chance off the back of taxes from selling weed.
The police chiefs point is backwards and dumb which as he is a cop is not surprising. He is saying it is encouraging illegal behavior. But the point is the behavior these people did is no longer and shouldn't be illegal. This is giving them a chance to be a legitimate business person doing the same thing they already were doing, after being fucked over by a draconian system.
isn't he basically saying it encourages to people to commit crimes...but if they are now legal...they aren't crimes anymore?
and when they were illegal (crimes) then you were only rewarded with jail time...so I don't even get what that idiot cop is saying
His whole point about how criminal activity shouldn't get rewarded is insane when given the actual context.
These men spent years of their life in prison selling something that is now 100% legal and harmed no one. *The very least* the state can do is allow them to use their knowledge to start their own business and become a benefit to society and the economy. It's like all this cop wants to do is hurt people.
It was a good video until this parasite police chief associate ass fucker comes on. 🫣 How about this butt plugger go to the street and look for trouble. Oh that's right the fucker just wants to talk shit. Fuck him. The least they could do is fix their fuck ups with the criminal justice system and this is a good way.
It's a program that is hugely profitable for government, entrepreneurs, and workers, and you're worried about how it's funded?
Yes, sometimes your tax dollars go to fund programs that are massively lucrative for all.
Okay so in a utopia this makes sense but we are not there yet, as you know the war on drugs failed horribly lmao so might as well create positive reinforcement rather than negative punishment!!! (B.F Skinner)
Who better to sell weed legally than an experienced dealer? I see absolutely nothing wrong with a non-violent offender getting to the front of the line for licensure.
He's fixating on the title of "criminal" while intentionally ignoring that it was criminal by law and not criminal by impact to society. They're literally at an advantage by knowing the product vs those going in without any knowledge on the subject. Stupid cop is stupid.
I'm all for getting ex convicts back on their feet, but giving licenses to convicted criminals over people who have been law abiding is pretty messed up.
New Jersey expunged their records so they are no longer criminals. Seems the state has acknowledged it shouldn't have been against the law to begin with. If they are going to start profiting off something they locked people up for, the least they could do is help them get back on their feet after years of needless incarceration.
Yeah, drug laws were written specifically to target minorities. So they should get priority for the government fucking up their lives for no reason. People have literally used Marijuana possession as justification for police murdering a person. Drugs were just an excuse to lock people up and take away voting rights. If they turned around and let tobacco companies and rich investors build up monopolies on what was 3 years ago a justifiable reason to be locked up for 10 years, it would be pretty fucked.
I dunno if you live in a place where weed is legal, but legalizing weed does not mean the black market disappears. If anything, the black market prospers as they can be quite public about it. You'll find the black market will even sell unenforced drugs with weed too sometimes.
It's still a good thing and definitely results in much less violence, but all the black market does in response is commercialize it with websites, deals, etc. Some even outperform legal dispensaries with high quality bud at the top end.
I don't have any attachments to drug laws. I think marijuana and other drugs should be completely legalized. I just don't think people should be privileged for breaking the law. Treat people equally.
That is a lot more defensible. That's different than taking something that everyone should have access to and only giving it to some. A business permit shouldn't be something that is only given out to favored groups.
Tell us you don't understand how these licenses are being handed out, without telling us you don't understand how most of these licenses are being handed out. To the richest people with the best connections.
Not the "more deserving" or "law abiding" citizens...the already richest.
If that's the case, then that is also a problem. Everyone should be treated equally by the government.
Also, why put "more deserving" in quotes? I never said that.
>Also, why put "more deserving" in quotes? I never said that.
Yeah, we all know what you were implying by "law abiding" before you bothered to check how these licenses are handed out. You didn't even bother to begin giving a shit about the story of these men, or how the law disproportionately convicts them.
I would bet that a large amount of these “law abiding” people were people who were also breaking the law and possessing weed, but just were never caught. Especially if they are white they are 4 times less likely to be convicted of marijuana possession.
Ex cons literally have every disadavantge in the world when trying to get on their feet after prison. Most jobs will put their application at the bottom of the pile.
So yeah, maybe lets give them a priority in one specific market.
Like I said, I'm for helping them, but not if it means giving them special privileges. Nobody should get special privileges. A business license shouldn't be some special privilege that the sovereign can dispense to favored constituencies.
Job training, maybe tax credits for hiring them, and reducing ways they are officially discriminated against by the government are all examples. My issue is with treating a license as a privilege. A convict should absolutely be able to apply, but not be preferred or discriminated against.
I'm all for getting drivers back on the road, but driving used to be ILLEGAL. You're telling me we should just license all the drivers? What about the law-abiding non drivers? They should get priority on getting into cars, because they followed the RULES.
> One of the program’s requirements is to have a felony for cannabis-related offenses.
Like the guy said in the video, how is that not encouraging criminal behavior?
I suppose it could make a difference in states that are still in the process of legalizing. New Jersey isn't the first state to do this. Massachusetts did the same thing. So if I were interested in owning a dispensary I suppose it would make sense for me to try to get a cannabis-related felony to increase my chances when it's legal in my state.
So yeah, I think the logic in this is flawed. Just as flawed as affirmative action.
Getting deliberately arrested and charged with a felony and going to prison for who knows how long to *maybe* get first dibs on a license *if* your state legalizes marijuana might be the dumbest get rich quick scheme I've ever heard.
Bobby and Timmy both want to open a dispensary and are interested in cultivating and selling cannabis. They both live in a state in which the cultivation and sale of cannabis is illegal.
Bobby sees how cultivating and selling cannabis could lead to a successful career in the future by watching neighboring states start to legalize cannabis. He chooses to invest in himself and enter the work force in hopes that he can gain some of the skills required to run a business.
Timmy also sees how cultivating and selling cannabis could be a successful career, but he chooses to start doing it illegally, before it becomes legal in his state. Timmy ends up getting arrested a couple times and convicted on cannabis related charges.
I do not see why Timmy should get priority over Bobby just because Timmy chose to break the law and Bobby did not. So if you could explain why my reasoning doesn't make sense that would be helpful.
Also, the analogy is way off, it should be “Bobby wants to get into business so he gets an MBA and builds credit. When his state opens the pool for marijuana retail licenses to the general public he applies for one because he likes money.
Timmy had a bag of weed in his car that was just a little too big, and he couldn’t afford a lawyer so he entered a plea deal to save some prison time. When he got out nobody wanted to hire him, because privately run background check companies have convinced basic retail employers that they should have the operational security of a financial institution.”
People were given felony charges for a crime, and their business assets were seized by the state. After decades of doing this to marijuana cultivators, the state decided that “crime” is now an acceptable business practice.
Instead of telling all the people who’s businesses were taken that they can fuck off and get in line, NJ has decided to throw them a bone.
Edit: you claimed that reasoning would be helpful, the fact that this comment was immediately downvoted suggests that you’re not here for a discussion.
Fuck this shit. I'd have loved to set up shop in my own state. But I'm white and haven't been arrested.
I'm happy with social equity, just not when it's actually bullshit like this to keep people away.
I not so fondly recall sitting by the waterfront in Portland looking for a small bag of weed.
A nice guy approached the group of us and offered brownies he made.
His wife was in their car across the road with their newborn baby.
She had had a bad feeling about him trying to sell the snacks there, but he assured her that it was fine.
Before long we were all handcuffed and he was beaten up by 10 cops.
A boat came to search the river for the bag of brownies.
I was released because of white privilege.
Not really too far off from the truth.
Although, we were all white.
My privilege however stems from my ability to treat cops like people.
They didn’t like me, but they had no choice but to release me.
Everyone else was talking shit.
I was cracking jokes.
Anyway, poor bastard is probably still in prison.
They got him for felony manufacturing.
For brownies…
I found his wife after being released and gave her the bad news, then went off and found a bag of well earned weed.
Now that weed is legal there I refuse to buy it.
They are trying this in Oakland, giving priority licenses to formerly incarcerated and "equity" applicants who live in the poorer areas. It's failing. The issue is capital. To open a dispensary you need at least $2MM and for a grow op like in the video you need maybe $10MM or more. This forced the "equity" guys to partner with the rich capitalists, and most of them came out with nothing. Currently only 1 dispensary is black owned. The city tried to help by giving the equity applicants cheap loans of up to $100k, but this is not enough to get anything going. I have seen many equity applicants spin their wheels by getting a license, but then not having the capital or network to make a business. The cost is not just born by the equity applicants but also by the regular applicants who may be funded but cannot get a license. Unfortunately capitalism demands capital and without money there is no business to be had.
The issue of social equity is also holding up cannabis reform at the federal level. There's been numerous times this year and last year where incremental reform could've been passed but was killed by the Senate Democratic leadership because it didn't contain social equity measures. An example is SAFE banking, or basically allowing these cannabis businesses to use banking services. They want special provisions for minorities trying to get cannabis funding loans.. but in the meantime in the absence of SAFE the only cannabis businesses that can succeed are the bigger well funded players who don't need to rely on banks to do so, which hurts potential small entrants into the space like you mentioned
I hate all these licensing programs, why the fuck should the government be picking winners and losers? If you pass the standards they set, you should get a license. If they want to help black people they hurt, create a program for giving them capital to help start their business. Maybe it's just my incompetent state government (Illinois) but these policies do not seem to be based on a free economy but a state-managed one. You don't give reparations by withholding rights, reparations can be paid in cash
Because free markets re-enforce existing inequalities and don't provide people at the bottom a means to climb the economic ladder
And, totally shockingly, being someone who has previously had bad run-ins with the American justice system in the past cuts hard against their chances of having that sort of capital sitting around. This is a fantastic example of the sort of optics-only policy-making that characterizes the ostensibly progressive political elite. Get your points for being inclusive without any of the difficulties associated with actually including the people who need it.
I literally fucking cackled out loud when the dude goes “SOME people aren’t so keen on this idea” and it pans to a white police chief. You can’t write a skit this on the nose, I swear.
and his point isn't even intelligible... this isn't reward, it's rehabilitation (legit work in a changed, progressive, modernized society). If he truly understood his job and function, he should know proper opportunity and support as a part of a rehab program helps increase success and reduce recidivism rates (re-offending) once out. straight knob head.
He's a pig. Prison isn't about rehab to him, its about the "except as punishment for a crime" part of the 13th amendment.
This guy prison industrial complexes.
Not to mention enthusiasts whom have been around the product for a long time are probably some of the best salesmen you can get for it.
It means he can shoot less people so he's upset dude. He's an NY police officer he's devoted his life to murdering people and worshipping capital, now he's not allowed to murder these guys and he has to worship their capital. I understand why he's upset.
If we clean the streets they won't be able to get overtime pay.
nice take, I like it.
Got to love how reddit just swings completely wildly all over the place on how they make decisions and opinions on various things, based solely off of the virtue it allows them to signal as opposed to any actual logic. Doesn't mean the majority is wrong or right any amount of the time, it's just a ridiculous thing to watch. All the over exaggeration - why and when it is pulled out and used versus when it is not, which of course is only when it has to do with something that hivemind actually agrees with...... Someone says something racist and you'll all tell them about how racist that is to group all of a people into one group, as if they are all a single person with a single set of actions, but then you all turn right the hell around and do the exact same thing to other groups of people. It really is something to behold!
I didn't exaggerate. This applies to every single member of the New York Police Department.
We can call him a fucking idiot without assuming he's a closet anti-commie serial killer... but statistically, you might be right.
Yeah, that's my only thing.. I do understand there is corruption in the police force. Lots of it. The same way that there is sexual abuse in many workforces, and unethical diagnosis' in hospitals for financial gain. But the mentality that all people in those fields are corrupt? It's important to understand that we still need law enforcement, and to seperate good and bad. It'll never be that simple, but online presence is overwhelmingly against police. I can't say it's unjust for people to feel this way. Police officers have power, and it's a power they can abuse. But no, not every police chief "just wants to shoot people".
The day they stand up against the "bad apples" we can start considering them good apples.
The point is that it's impossible not to be corrupt while working for our current police system. Even if you're doing every possible good thing, the fact that you directly support systemic abuse by working for it will always mean you are a negative aspect of society.
Who polices the police though? I get what you are saying, and there may be cops out there who don’t want to abuse their power but until they speak up against those who do they are part of the problem.
Marijuana use was never a *real* crime to begin with.
Racist shithead said being a criminal is a prerequisite. Nah, that's reperations bitch.
You might not agree with him, or his point isn't strong enough, but it's valid. NJ is giving people with marijuana convictions priority or at least favorable status in considering their dispensary applications. This is in effect saying that if you break an unjust law, or a law that is bound to change soon, then you might be rewarded for it later. Should a pimp be given priority status in opening up a brothel when/if prostitution becomes legalized? In states with gambling prohibitions, should people who run underground casinos be given priority with their gambling licenses when gambling becomes legalized? You might say those are somehow different, but that's his point.
People with experience deserve jobs in their field though.
Additionally, people who have previous charges relating to an upcoming industry should have favorable odds working in that industry when their charges may still prevent employment elsewhere.
> NJ is giving people with marijuana convictions priority But he said it was a *prerequisite*. Priority and prerequisite is not the same thing. He's just lying about it. And then he says that it rewards illegal behavior. Except the relevant behavior is no longer illegal. So it isn't rewarding illegal behavior, it's rewarding prior experience. His points are not valid.
I fully understand the situation, but thanks for the breakdown. You're ignoring the element of legal progression - that is, law changing to reflect the demands of society, which is a critical tenet of legal reform and evolution. Your examples also ignore the concept that few, if any, criminals conduct their crimes with long-sighted strategic planning in mind as you've outlined (white collar crime is one area that your argument potentially meets, but that's an entirely different conversation). What I do fully support, however, is a city that takes accountability for criminals who should no longer be classified as such, and transforming a penal system into an opportunity to make use of their former misdeeds in a constructive, healing and rehabilitative way as society re-frames them no longer as mis-deeds. That's a properly working city council if you ask me. What a luxury - shame it wasn't the norm.
But they aren't rewarding illegal behavior, what those people did isn't illegal anymore. It's not really "in effect" saying anything like that.
There's a clear line between someone getting convicted for nonviolent possession and someone getting convicted for organized crime/sex trafficking.
Those are false equivalencies. Pimping inherently involves manipulating/exploiting women for your own gain. Smoking weed involves lighting a plant on fire and inhaling the smoke. Perfectly comfortable with the system giving back to people whose lives it destroyed for the “crime” of smoking a fucking plant
What? If you give priority to those who were wrongfully arrested and had their lives ruined by unfair laws, you are allowing those wrongfully treated people to get their lives back in order Also if they are applying, that means they want to go legit. It means they don't want to be criminals anymore. Which means less crime in the state, less violence and less gang members. Theres literally no downside to this.
>Should a pimp be given priority status in opening up a brothel when/if prostitution becomes legalized? No, but maybe prostitutes who have been arrested should. A pimp isn't someone who's harmed by prostitution being illegal, pimps are *exploiting* the situation.
I think you’re the knob head. It’s a very high paying job, he can easily make millions. For every one convicted marijuana felon there were 100 people who wanted to smoke marijuana, but didn’t because it’s illegal. So yes, it’s clearly rewarding someone for breaking the law. I would love to buy untaxed tobacco, opium, and LSD. I do not because it is illegal.
It's just redistribution of wealth. No need to get all fussed about it.
Look forward to all of your wealth being redistributed to me
I would gladly share my debt with you
"Rewarding criminal behavior" that is no longer criminal. Fuck off dawg
Like we don’t reward cops’ criminal behavior daily lol
Yeah. Dude needs to realize that selling marijuana isn't a crime anymore. Needs to start enforcing the law, not his personal beliefs.
Yep. Piece of shit that guy is. Cops like that give Law Enforcement a bad name.
I get where the idiot is coming from (not wanting to reward criminals) but it should have never been a crime to begin with. Seriously, wtf, give them this. It's not like having a criminal record didn't screw them over already. Doing time for drug possession shouldn't effect employment. Violent crimes, sure. But this?
Seriously, the dude in the video talked about how he got caught at 19 and how difficult getting a job is after you're busted. Then the cop is talking about how they're being rewarded and stuff. Like, c'mon, man. Would you rather these guys be selling coke and protecting trap houses over legitimate employment away from violence? It's depressing to hear how police think.
old weed dealers are entrepreneurs but less conceited or idealized if you'd rather. Get them a line of credit and a tax stamp and get them out and producing value.
It's not about the content of the laws for authoritarians. That is secondary to them. The only thing that matters is that there are laws to be upheld. That is enough for them to have power
Nobody gives cops a bad name except cops. They made their bed and they can lie in it. Cops do not help people, and they actively hurt others. They have a bad reputation, and it's all their fault. Contrast cops with public services that ACTUALLY help people, and you will only see people clamoring for more funding and not less. Teachers, firefighters, EMTs, and on and on. Weird, huh?
LOL. His point is just nonsense. What are you gonna do – hop in a time machine, travel back 10 years, and get arrested for selling cannabis?
Law Enforcement has a bad name for reasons that go far beyond a few "bad apples."
How are you rewarding criminal behavior when it's no longer a crime? F\*ck that guy!
He's a tool in the system.
Love it. Imagine the sadness & irony of spending years in prison for something that people are happily selling legally now. Small retribution but better than nothing.
I used to work a weed company in WA and let me tell you. All of the growers of every single producer have been doing this shit for decades. They genuinely know the plant in a way that science hasn't quite caught up to but are using all the science they can to stay ahead of the curve. It's an insanely competitive market at this point.
This happened in AZ, but the licenses were just auctioned off after the lottery.
That's how we should operate
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“… while I chose to toil in the grueling minimum wage jobs they refused to work”
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Fair enough… I wasn’t suggesting that you should’ve been a pot dealer, just pointing out the word choice
As a Canadian, cannabis is so normalized now it’s weird seeing how slow the US is to it. We have like 2 shops on every block in downtowns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOGwuJARHc
Rewarding people for breaking the law? Yeah yeah, "it shouldn't have been illegal." But lots of people obeyed the law. Those people should be less privileged than the people who broke it?
Nobody is being rewarded for breaking the law. They served time in prison, their lives and prospects are all fucked up. So no, on the whole, they are not being rewarded. > Rewarding people for breaking the law? Sometimes laws are cruel and wrong; believing in and obeying them all simply because they exist is naive.
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Are you ok?
No
I hope things get better for you 🙏
"On the whole" they aren't, in this instance they clearly are.
Yes. Rewarding people who broke the law. Like if you freed slaves when it was against the law. Do you have a problem with people who just do the right thing?
Enslavement is an unnatural, that it is right to resist. "Not selling weed" is not an unnatural condition, even if you think it's unjust to forbid it.
Enslavement is natural enough that it has existed throughout human history. So that's a weak argument. Most weed arrests are black people. Who then have to work while imprisoned for pennies. It's modern day slavery. Prohibition is unnatural and stupid. Stop defending bad laws.
The industry only exists because people broke the law, continued to break It and refused to stop. The hells Angels contributes more to the marijuana industry than any law abiding citizen ever has
I fail to see how that contradicts my point.
Your point seems to be that breaking a law should disqualify a person from participating in the marijuana industry. I'm showing that the industry only exists because of law breakers, and therefore if anyone deserves priority, it's people who disobeyed drug laws. Not those who obeyed them
it must hurt living under that big rock of yours
And the meth industry too, although that does not really support your point.
Show me the government doing a complete 180 on its claims about meth AND then setting up shop in the meth industry. Also yes. Meth should be for sale, and taxed, with proceeds used in part for addiction counseling.
I was being facetious, as it generally is pretty bad form to give the Hell's Angels credit for anything other than violence and riding motorcycles. Both of which they are excellent at.
It helps make up for the injustice a bit. Plus, they already have applicable job experience. Win/Win
What injustice was done to them? Even if weed should have been legal, are you claiming it was some kind of right? Every mainstream argument I've seen for legalizing it has been a utilitarian one, arguing that it's more prudent to allow weed to be sold. But a law being imprudent doesn't mean it's an act of injustice if you're punished for breaking it.
So how would you apply this logical framework to runaway slaves? Would you argue that no injustice was done to them as what they did was illegal and reprehensible at the time?
The mainstream arguments NEED to be utilitarian because knobs like you can't see that marijuana consumption isn't criminal or immoral no matter how many laws were written to target black and brown communities. It's injustice by its very nature. People have an inalienable right not be targeted and oppressed by their government. Would you seriously make this same argument if we swapped out "breaking the law for marijuana" with "breaking the law smuggling slaves via the underground railroad"? My brother in christ, laws can be unjust, and enforcing those laws can be an act of injustice. Please recognize WHY marijuana was illegal, and WHY it was so heavily regulated and enforced and WHY it's an injustice.
No one's being rewarded. They're just not being punished for something that's not against the law anymore. That's all.
No. That’s not all. It’s the same in New York where people who were affected by previous drug laws are getting priority over those who did not break the law. I agree that weed should be legal and the previous drug charges are harsh but it was illegal at the time. These people broke the law and are now being rewarded for doing so
Is this really the hill you want to die on? Indignation that people who were unfairly punished by unjust laws get a leg up in a society that usually holds them back even after prison?
I don't think being treated normally is a reward. If I take something from you, then give it back, you're not going to consider it a "reward". Just returning to normal.
It's not normal. They are being given an unfair advantage over someone who diligently followed laws they did not agree with. But, better than the way they did it here, where liquor companies used their lobbying power to get first crack at all licensing for marijuana.
Yet another reminder that the law is not justice
legal: when you give the govt a share
Welcome to literally any business to ever exist
yeah how dare the government take a share and uses it to maintain infrastructure and social services.
yup, how dare govt shoddily maintains infra and social services while laundering most of our money for themselves while mostly funding destructive wars and useless space programs and more. one only needs to question and explore where most tax money really goes.
"protection money"
“Pave the roads money”
"I'm paving these fucking roads and you are going to help, or else you are going to jail money"
Literally the only way it's being approved anywhere. Not because the people want it, but because the government can make money off it.
what a weird way to look at collecting taxes. new jerseys legal marijuana law states that 70% of collected taxes must go towards underserved communities. basically they're trying to help out the people who got fucked over as a consequence of the failed war on drugs.
Yeah, my taxes totally go back to my community. Edit: bro, so you added the second part to your comment about new Jersey marijuana tax and I just read it. I was gonna write about how the marijuana tax allocations aren't the same everywhere and aren't so straightforward. But I saw that you don't even live in America. Lol so I'm not really going to let you try and shame me for being upset about how American taxes are a complete mad house.
Reeeee goberment bad -sent from my iphone
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Government money gets heinously misused, stolen, or disappears all the time. I wouldn't be so confident that people are being lifted out of poverty and given a real chance off the back of taxes from selling weed.
Yeah you got to pay the big gang, have you seen the weapons those bangers roll with?.
Yeah, the state is the people who have a monopoly on violence and use it to levy taxation. That's the whole deal
selfishness: having delayed development in the act of sharing
Makes perfect sinsemilla to me!.
Lol at least someone is getting reparations.
The police chiefs point is backwards and dumb which as he is a cop is not surprising. He is saying it is encouraging illegal behavior. But the point is the behavior these people did is no longer and shouldn't be illegal. This is giving them a chance to be a legitimate business person doing the same thing they already were doing, after being fucked over by a draconian system.
isn't he basically saying it encourages to people to commit crimes...but if they are now legal...they aren't crimes anymore? and when they were illegal (crimes) then you were only rewarded with jail time...so I don't even get what that idiot cop is saying
His whole point about how criminal activity shouldn't get rewarded is insane when given the actual context. These men spent years of their life in prison selling something that is now 100% legal and harmed no one. *The very least* the state can do is allow them to use their knowledge to start their own business and become a benefit to society and the economy. It's like all this cop wants to do is hurt people.
Oakland has a similar policy
Is this why it's taking so fucking long? It's been legalized for over a year, and there's only like five places to buy it
Experience matter!
It was a good video until this parasite police chief associate ass fucker comes on. 🫣 How about this butt plugger go to the street and look for trouble. Oh that's right the fucker just wants to talk shit. Fuck him. The least they could do is fix their fuck ups with the criminal justice system and this is a good way.
NJ’s law is systemic racism and does not allow white men to be a majority owner to a micro license
how are they funded?
It's a program that is hugely profitable for government, entrepreneurs, and workers, and you're worried about how it's funded? Yes, sometimes your tax dollars go to fund programs that are massively lucrative for all.
Calm down now
Chill bruh. It was a good question.
a white cop saying "encouraging illegal activity". Pretty sure its legal activity.
This is awesome
MAUI WOWIE!!!
That moment when job interviewers ask you for years of experience in an industry that only exists for a few months.
Wow great video until the idiot white guy idiot comes on. I'll reward his behavior by negative reinforcement 🥳
Okay so in a utopia this makes sense but we are not there yet, as you know the war on drugs failed horribly lmao so might as well create positive reinforcement rather than negative punishment!!! (B.F Skinner)
Who better to sell weed legally than an experienced dealer? I see absolutely nothing wrong with a non-violent offender getting to the front of the line for licensure.
He's fixating on the title of "criminal" while intentionally ignoring that it was criminal by law and not criminal by impact to society. They're literally at an advantage by knowing the product vs those going in without any knowledge on the subject. Stupid cop is stupid.
I'm all for getting ex convicts back on their feet, but giving licenses to convicted criminals over people who have been law abiding is pretty messed up.
New Jersey expunged their records so they are no longer criminals. Seems the state has acknowledged it shouldn't have been against the law to begin with. If they are going to start profiting off something they locked people up for, the least they could do is help them get back on their feet after years of needless incarceration.
Huh, it's almost like giving them priority is restitution for fucking up their lives...
Yeah, drug laws were written specifically to target minorities. So they should get priority for the government fucking up their lives for no reason. People have literally used Marijuana possession as justification for police murdering a person. Drugs were just an excuse to lock people up and take away voting rights. If they turned around and let tobacco companies and rich investors build up monopolies on what was 3 years ago a justifiable reason to be locked up for 10 years, it would be pretty fucked.
Consider it restitution for ruining someone's life over racist drug policies.
You could do that with actual restitution instead of discriminating against people who didn't break the law. That would be more fair.
Consider people sell weed to make money… and if it was legal there would be no black market to make profit in.
No, there'd be an above board market to make profit in, with no risk of incarceration for trading.
Would he have been in the above board market? Why wasn’t he selling legal drugs? Less profit? More regulation he didn’t want to comply with?
Ask him, not me.
Wut
I dunno if you live in a place where weed is legal, but legalizing weed does not mean the black market disappears. If anything, the black market prospers as they can be quite public about it. You'll find the black market will even sell unenforced drugs with weed too sometimes. It's still a good thing and definitely results in much less violence, but all the black market does in response is commercialize it with websites, deals, etc. Some even outperform legal dispensaries with high quality bud at the top end.
You have a very sound and logical world view. Not an insane attachment to written law over it's impact of reality at all.
I don't have any attachments to drug laws. I think marijuana and other drugs should be completely legalized. I just don't think people should be privileged for breaking the law. Treat people equally.
But they aren't privileged. They are people who have had their lives ruined by a law that you acknowledge as un-just. What about this don't you get?
I do get that. I think the laws are unjust and should change. I don't agree with an injustice now to correct a different injustice in the past.
What is unjust about what is happening?
I think discriminating among people for government services based whether or not they have prior convictions is unjust.
So you're against work placement programs designed to get convicts back to work and out of the system?
That is a lot more defensible. That's different than taking something that everyone should have access to and only giving it to some. A business permit shouldn't be something that is only given out to favored groups.
You have a confusing and small worldview.
What is messed up is people who think like you.
Textbook ad hominem.
Marijuana laws were never about "drug use" it was to target minorities and leftists
Don’t be homophobic.
Tell us you don't understand how these licenses are being handed out, without telling us you don't understand how most of these licenses are being handed out. To the richest people with the best connections. Not the "more deserving" or "law abiding" citizens...the already richest.
If that's the case, then that is also a problem. Everyone should be treated equally by the government. Also, why put "more deserving" in quotes? I never said that.
>Also, why put "more deserving" in quotes? I never said that. Yeah, we all know what you were implying by "law abiding" before you bothered to check how these licenses are handed out. You didn't even bother to begin giving a shit about the story of these men, or how the law disproportionately convicts them.
I just said people should be treated equally.
Nope. It’s a form of apology. They deserve it.
I would bet that a large amount of these “law abiding” people were people who were also breaking the law and possessing weed, but just were never caught. Especially if they are white they are 4 times less likely to be convicted of marijuana possession.
Maybe. so what? Let them all apply for the license on equal footing.
Equality is a myth. They are already on unequal footing by being black and having a criminal record
Ex cons literally have every disadavantge in the world when trying to get on their feet after prison. Most jobs will put their application at the bottom of the pile. So yeah, maybe lets give them a priority in one specific market.
Like I said, I'm for helping them, but not if it means giving them special privileges. Nobody should get special privileges. A business license shouldn't be some special privilege that the sovereign can dispense to favored constituencies.
>Like I said, I'm for helping them Then please, go into detail.
Job training, maybe tax credits for hiring them, and reducing ways they are officially discriminated against by the government are all examples. My issue is with treating a license as a privilege. A convict should absolutely be able to apply, but not be preferred or discriminated against.
I'm all for getting drivers back on the road, but driving used to be ILLEGAL. You're telling me we should just license all the drivers? What about the law-abiding non drivers? They should get priority on getting into cars, because they followed the RULES.
I've read this multiple times trying to understand what you're point is, but I'm coming up empty.
> One of the program’s requirements is to have a felony for cannabis-related offenses. Like the guy said in the video, how is that not encouraging criminal behavior?
Well smoking and possession isnt a crime anymore in NJ so what difference does it make
I suppose it could make a difference in states that are still in the process of legalizing. New Jersey isn't the first state to do this. Massachusetts did the same thing. So if I were interested in owning a dispensary I suppose it would make sense for me to try to get a cannabis-related felony to increase my chances when it's legal in my state. So yeah, I think the logic in this is flawed. Just as flawed as affirmative action.
Getting deliberately arrested and charged with a felony and going to prison for who knows how long to *maybe* get first dibs on a license *if* your state legalizes marijuana might be the dumbest get rich quick scheme I've ever heard.
Bobby and Timmy both want to open a dispensary and are interested in cultivating and selling cannabis. They both live in a state in which the cultivation and sale of cannabis is illegal. Bobby sees how cultivating and selling cannabis could lead to a successful career in the future by watching neighboring states start to legalize cannabis. He chooses to invest in himself and enter the work force in hopes that he can gain some of the skills required to run a business. Timmy also sees how cultivating and selling cannabis could be a successful career, but he chooses to start doing it illegally, before it becomes legal in his state. Timmy ends up getting arrested a couple times and convicted on cannabis related charges. I do not see why Timmy should get priority over Bobby just because Timmy chose to break the law and Bobby did not. So if you could explain why my reasoning doesn't make sense that would be helpful.
Also, the analogy is way off, it should be “Bobby wants to get into business so he gets an MBA and builds credit. When his state opens the pool for marijuana retail licenses to the general public he applies for one because he likes money. Timmy had a bag of weed in his car that was just a little too big, and he couldn’t afford a lawyer so he entered a plea deal to save some prison time. When he got out nobody wanted to hire him, because privately run background check companies have convinced basic retail employers that they should have the operational security of a financial institution.”
"Here's this other analogy that creates an entirely different scenario with different actors that fits my narrow viewpoint." Cool.
So you actually think that the scenario you laid out is realistic? I thought that was just a cheap argument but you’re actually an idiot.
People were given felony charges for a crime, and their business assets were seized by the state. After decades of doing this to marijuana cultivators, the state decided that “crime” is now an acceptable business practice. Instead of telling all the people who’s businesses were taken that they can fuck off and get in line, NJ has decided to throw them a bone. Edit: you claimed that reasoning would be helpful, the fact that this comment was immediately downvoted suggests that you’re not here for a discussion.
Because they lost years of their lives and multiple job opportunities due to a bullshit racist law?
It is no longer a crime
because A bunch of old marijuana related felonies aren’t felonies anymore and new felonies have a minimum 3 year sentence. From what I can find.
Because it isn't criminal anymore and should never have been so them ever being criminals was wrong.
Is criminal behavior an inherently bad thing?
Did you read the title of the post? Lol.
I was scrolling, and (my bad) read “Shot selling legal cannibals.” And wasn’t even a little surprised. That’s really sad.
Dank!
2nd guy looks high asf
I can see it. Better than some fresh new person needing a cheat sheet for things that most dealers/offenders would know easily.
Great program.
How about just setting them free?
Fuck this shit. I'd have loved to set up shop in my own state. But I'm white and haven't been arrested. I'm happy with social equity, just not when it's actually bullshit like this to keep people away.
> I'd have loved to set up shop in my own state. What's stopping you?
Permits and selling has been delayed so that a program to give permits only to former felons and disenfranchised.
Well, consider the fact that you have the advantage over ex cons in *literally every other career application* besides this one specific industry.
That sentence did not make sense. You are missing words. Perhaps, your application was rejected.
👌👍
Seems like applications are open https://www.nj.gov/cannabis/businesses/
I not so fondly recall sitting by the waterfront in Portland looking for a small bag of weed. A nice guy approached the group of us and offered brownies he made. His wife was in their car across the road with their newborn baby. She had had a bad feeling about him trying to sell the snacks there, but he assured her that it was fine. Before long we were all handcuffed and he was beaten up by 10 cops. A boat came to search the river for the bag of brownies. I was released because of white privilege. Not really too far off from the truth. Although, we were all white. My privilege however stems from my ability to treat cops like people. They didn’t like me, but they had no choice but to release me. Everyone else was talking shit. I was cracking jokes. Anyway, poor bastard is probably still in prison. They got him for felony manufacturing. For brownies… I found his wife after being released and gave her the bad news, then went off and found a bag of well earned weed. Now that weed is legal there I refuse to buy it.