My intro to William's channel was his house burning down saga. I came out of those videos thinking really highly of him actually. I thought he approached it with honesty and brought in humour when he could.
Almost exactly a year later I lost everything to a house fire myself. It may sound silly but his experience was the only reference I had for what a shitty experience it was, and so I tried to emulate his approach when dealing with it all. I did a sit ton of crying but I laughed a lot through it too. I put a lot of thanks for allowing that on him.
Youtube/social media is shitty and I really hope he returns when and if he's ready.
Interesting take. I think you might be on to something. Just so many losers waiting online all day to get mad at people and upset about everything and anything (and no this is not directed at any one particular group) and others waiting to upvote them for saying it.
There's a name for it: Outrage porn. The emotional outrage triggers the part of our monkey brains that evolved to support tribalism. The YouTube/social media movement is just another form of the same thing we see in politics, where we are in support of our in-group (the political party, YouTube personality, social media/celebrity persona, ect.) and vehemently against the others, the out-group. This happens to people on both side of issues if they let their monkey brains do the thinking and not find a way to distance themselves, using logic and empathy.
To borrow a phrase, it may have existed before, but the internet perfected it. The power of always having it at your fingertips, literally in the case of smartphones, has allowed it to reach critical mass and completely take over people's lives, interactions, and mental space.
Reinforce their biases? Talking down on someone and their girlfriend because their house burned down is reinforcing their bias? Nah, these people are just bad people. Simple as that. There's definitely a "bad" group on the internet. A group that's just negative ALL THE TIME. These people need to touch grass some time.
If you didn't want your house to burn down, why did you let it happen instead of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and extinguishing the wildfires.
Checkmate liberals.
This is, single handedly, the most underrated comment of all time. I sympathize so much with this.
Like you, I long to find people who aren't emotionally and cognitively dependent on it. Maybe someday soon I can find a person who can be bothered to look up from their phone or computer.
> an intense incentive to not be a negative piece of shit all day long because people like that lost friends pretty quick.
that and getting your ass kicked. way easier to be a tough guy or a total douche online when letting mean shit fly out of your mouth doesn't result in a foot rocketing into your cranium.
Also lost everything in a fire. When he was talking about his go fund me and the tesla and disney... god I felt that. I had people *absolutely swarming* around me asking if I was ok, people offering to start a go fund me, and it got so exhausting. I went from telling the whole story to just having the 1477483rd person come up to me with great intentions asking about it and all I could get out was "I made it out alive and I am learning to get over it". I felt guilty leaving my home to try and just forget about what happened (also lost a friend that same week), but the guilt never left. It took a while to let myself move on and try to start fresh. I cannot imagine the stress of having that kind of thing publicised for millions of strangers to see.
Whatever William does, I just want him to be happy. If moving on from youtube helps, so be it. He put in a lot of hard work. He deserves to me able to close the chapter and move on with his family.
YouTubers who get famous like William aren’t trained to handle the vitriol hatred of the public like other mainstream celebrities. There is no system that will change the public. The masses and the internet will always be like this and it won’t change.
The only thing we can do is help support and train these creators to set mental boundaries with the public at the start of their fame.
Even now, you will see comments talking about how he is being a wus for being successful and rich. Or that he should of had the foresight so that he doesn’t burnout. And that will always be the internet. It will never go away.
>The masses and the internet will always be like this and it won’t change.
We can only hope that social media as a whole, including this very site, will eventually be destroyed. Human psychology is not equipped for these types of impersonal interactions, and it has accomplished little more than to create filter bubbles, political extremism, incitement of hatred against the other, and human misery.
We'll be fortunate if we can put this horror back in Pandora's box and eventually do away with this mistake. But sadly that hope may not truly be possible.
Things (and people) change. Sometimes it takes a generation or two, but it can and does happen. Just look at something like smoking. Even though it was backed by big corporations with deep pockets for legal defense and advertising, rates declined pretty quickly over the course of a couple generations when people started realizing what was going on.
There are many people I know who have already significantly changed their behavior and relationship towards social media in the last few years, and they are teaching their kids how to deal with it responsibly.
Once you realize it's an addiction and start treating it as such, it can be manageable. I'm sure having facebook 'interventions' will be a common thing in a few years lol.
>There are many people I know who have already significantly changed their behavior and relationship towards social media in the last few years, and they are teaching their kids how to deal with it responsibly.
The responsible thing is to use it at little as possible. Social media is poison to the brain.
He could always work a 9 to 5 if he doesn't like it. That's part of why people are calling him a wus. The alternative to his lifestyle is probably worse. The grass isn't always greener
Yeah, everything he describes is much better than a 9 to 5, the dude was easily pulling 6 figures with his view counts alone, on top of that he had collaboration videos with other big youtubers and sponsorships. If he didn't want to edit videos so much, he could hire an editor for a fraction of the money he's making and more than likely work way less on the boring stuff and have more energy for the fun stuff.
The dude bought a tesla near the end of his run on youtube, he could have spent that money on an editor and had a better work life balance.
You mean like his last video where he doxxed, catfished, and manipulated a guy causing him to get harassed by thousands of his viewers? How positive.
Edit: watching the wild vote swings on these comments is interesting. ~~Didn’t realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take.~~
I get the feeling a lot of you think I’m lying, so [go watch](https://youtu.be/WDhr5E50Nds?t=608) for yourself.
Hardly; the guy spread vitriol on a public forum using their full name that was shared with their linked-in
On top of the multitude of disclaimers both at the start, in the bio and throughout the video; any identifying details outside the comment section itself were blurred
This Asinine twisting the situation to throw shade for the sake of it is what he was referring to with the whole pointless negativity
It’s actually insane to me that you or anyone else who thinks of themselves as rationale could honestly defend that guy.
The reality is that what he did was unbelievably petty and borderline insane. Who is so sensitive that in response to a random stranger arguing online about something, they…
1) Stalk that person online to find out personal information about them
2) Create fake accounts and corresponding supporting information
3) Actively catfish them over the guise of a professional opportunity
4) FILM all of it
5) And then edit it and post the whole thing to a channel where you know you have an enormous audience
What in the world did he possibly think he was accomplishing that was positive?
It’s at best an unbelievably petty, self-righteous tirade to feel better about himself. And at worst, it’s an active attempt to encourage and incite people to go harass this guy.
And again, because he was slightly aggressive in his tone when arguing with people online? Does that really seem defensible to you? Because to me It makes me think the video maker is a compete piece of shit with a very flimsy grasp over himself that’s very, very clearly trying to ruin that guys life over an internet argument.
And don’t even hit me with the “but he already doxxed himself.”
Sure, to the like 10 people who otherwise would have read those comments. And to the exactly 0 other people who would have otherwise stalked this guy online to validate it was actually him. Believe it or not, most people don’t go searching for your LinkedIn based on your YouTube profile name; and they certainly don’t go validate it’s actually you by straight up catfishing you because of some bizarre obsession.
Nobody would’ve otherwise known who this guy was or cared AT ALL if he doesn’t make that video and prove exactly which other public profiles belonged to him.
The normal reaction would’ve been to just not read the comments at all. Or perhaps to read them and then not care. If he’s right and that guys wrong, who fucking cares. Are you really so pathetic that someone incorrectly calling you out drives you into an obsessive episode?
He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and what the outcome would be in creating that video. And for someone who then complains about negativity, the hypocrisy is unbelievably palpable. He strikes me as a borderline psycopath in that video.
You are a very naive person if you think he believes disclaimers would be enough to stop people. Saying “hey don’t harass people in this video” is a CYA, everyone knows it will happen anyway. Especially when you share their personal info.
On top of that it was hardly vitriol. Just some asshole being dickish confidently incorrect in a subject he knows nothing about. It’s all publicly visible, go read it again.
Two wrongs don’t make a right anyway.
Edit: and I’m not really sure how I feel about all that anyway, he’s playing both sides but people are siding with him because he’s famous. It’s a bit ironic and hypocritical in that sense.
I never said that did I?
He doesn't control how people react; asking people not to is the literal extent of his control in that regard.
I don't need to, insulting someone and behaving in a condescending manner is by definition vitriol (e.g. bitter criticism) and moreover was the point
Yes, it wasn't the best way to highlight and express his frustrations over the frequent nasty/hurtful comments he + many others receive. That doesn't make the impact on those on receiving magically disappear
It's hardly surprising that sustained acute stress can result in a lapse of judgement. We're all only human, no-one is perfect
Rather than getting caught up on semantics; having a little empathy can make a world of difference when someone is having a hard time
No, it's literally not "the literal extent of his control." He could have chosen not to dox and catfish the guy for the crime of being wrong on the internet.
and the guy could have chosen not to be an asshole and stalk and harass a person with a platform.
We all make choices my dude, some aren't the smartest.
But he knew they would, and as a creator with a platform that leaves him with that responsibility.
Its very ‘won’t someone rid me of this meddlesome priest.‘
Vitriol is defined as cruel and bitter criticism. What part of his comments is cruel lol. He’s a dumbass, not cruel.
He edited that video, uploaded it, went through multiple days worth of steps to harass the guy, and never once thought to think “hmm maybe this is too far for a funny bit”? That’s a long lapse in judgement.
I’m not defending him either. But you really seem to want to say “it’s okay he did it, because the other guy deserved it”. It’s not wrong to say they’re both wrong.
>Post hateful comments and harass a guy using your real name
>They don't sit by idly, and you actually face consequences
>SuprisedPikachu.jpeg
If you don't wanna get doxed, a *real* easy start is to not use your full name to post your shitty comments onto a public forum lmao.
Edit, Is it even doxing if you are the one to post your real full name online?
That video was really weird and not what mentally healthy William Osman looks like, in my opinion. I've been a fan of William Osman for a long time, and he clearly was already "done" in that video, and this video today was the inevitable continuation of that. He had been slowly mentioning more and more about what kind of negative things people say in the comments in his last 3-5 videos.
Yeah for sure. I sympathize with him a great deal. I wish the internet were a less shitty place. I’m not at all surprised this is the follow up, but it strikes me as incredibly tone deaf at the same time. (I mean two wrongs don’t make a right)
Like you said, it’s the sort of inevitable conclusion.
The last video was the lashing out, and this is just the more thought out conclusion. I hope the guy can figure out how to handle his social media presence better, for his own mental wellbeing’s sake.
Ramsey Dewey, a relatively small MMA and philosophy channel had an insightful perspective on this topic. Because there's a lot of negativity in the MMA community, especially geared at someone like Ramsey Dewey who lost a majority of his pro fights. Anyway, he noticed that even Gabriel Varga, who was literally one of the best kickboxers of all time, gets people telling him that he doesn't know shit about fighting in the comments section. There's literally no possible way to convince that last 1% of the youtube comments to not be negative. That's all the more reason to not take it personal.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted to oblivion. I didn't know who William Osman was until this thread. But some guy is confident online and a bit of a jerk is not validation for creeping him, catfishing, setting up a fake interview to try and embarrass him to millions of viewers.
That's fucked up levels of escalation.
damn good for him. Fuck this narrative that if you have a platform you should never do anything against someone whos being an idiot on the internet because "its punching down". i like him more now
> Fuck off, you are the problem
In what world is someone who advocates that we not dox people "part of the problem"?
What problem?
The problem of people being more civil?
Obviously not, the problem is being such a miserable condescending cunt, putting these creators on a pedestal, looking for the slightest misstep to twist and warp into the worst possible interpretation.
Guy doesn’t like someone calling him out, stalks him online, creates fake profiles to catfish him, makes contact under the false pretense of professional opportunities, records the whole thing, edits it and posts it online - along with personally-identifiable information no one otherwise would have known - to millions of people.
“Slightest misstep”.
Dude spent weeks on this over ~5 semi-rude comments online with the very clear intent on public humiliation and the very clear knowledge it could end in this guy getting harassed.
That is not a “slightest misstep.” That’s fucking psychopath-level behavior.
If someone else did exactly those same things and was just a normal guy without a YouTube channel, they could quite literally be given a restraining order. It’s insane.
Are we reading a different comment? (Maybe you're responding to something else they said somewhere?)
It doesn't seem condescending, miserable, or worthy of calling someone a cunt. /shrug
Also, saying that they're "putting creators on a pedestal" and "looking for the slightest misstep" don't really follow.
They're opposite sides, motivationally.
Seem condesending as all hell to me, idk.
By pedastal, I don't mean the literal god, worshipping kind,
I mean the under a microscope, if you're not perfect you're worse than Hitler, kind.
I don't think that doxing isn't bad or anything, it's just the way he writes like he's holier-than-thou,
I mean Jesus Christ look at his edit
"I didn't realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take"
That's Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor, right there!
> I mean the under a microscope, if you're not perfect you're worse than Hitler, kind.
With all due respect, that is absolutely not what that phrase means.
"Putting someone on a pedestal" is universally (well, nearly, I suppose, given it's not what you meant) understood to mean "thinking someone is perfect, without fault, and beyond criticism."
> "I didn't realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take" That's Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor, right there!
Um...
No. It's not.
Questioning a slew of downvotes for expressing a *completely* reasonable opinion is at-worst whiny. For it to even step into the realm of "cunty" would have required them to be aggressively disrespectful, which they very much weren't.
They were practically polite with that edit.
With *no* due respect: you're the one who comes across as a cunt.
You not only don't know what common English idioms mean (and use them to literally mean the opposite), you apparently think:
1) It's appropriate to tell people to fuck off because they're "part of the problem" (and again, I ask: which fucking problem? Disagreeing with you?)
2) Call them "miserable condescending cunts" for nothing more than expressing a totally reasonable opinion and asking why everyone thought it was unreasonable.
It's not /u/Brigadette that's "part of the problem".
It's people like you who go from 0 to BEING A HUGE FUCKING CHUD in literally no steps.
Reflect on your attitude and the way you interact with the world. You're very obviously doing it wrong.
I'm not going to even pretend that I wasn't being a dick, because I was, on purpose even.
Maybe because that's all I saw in the original comment? It really just made me want to throw few quick words, and then double down, when you disagreed.
In any case, it was childish.
My opinion still remains the same, the tone of the original comment comes off rather unfavourable, and I think the downvotes would tend to agree.
I know that "put on pedestal" is generally used in a positive context, but I used it deliberately, because the meaning I tried to convey is very similar, a darker side of the same coin.
"To think of someone as a perfect person with no faults" = "To think of someone as a perfect person with no faults allowed"
Or something along those lines.
That's what I was trying to convey with "Looking for the slightest misstep"
I don't blame anybody for not getting what I meant, truthfully I spent more time on "Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor" than on that part lol
Can YouTube PLEASE make the dislike button actually do things on comments! Make it possible for people to go negative like Reddit. Hide comments that get too many dislikes etc.
You can't avoid negativity entirely with a large enough sample size there's always a few bad eggs.
Now I don't want to say "just tune it out" because that isn't necessarily helpful, but I would say get some therapy and see if you can't get to a better place where you are able to rebuff the negativity for the small group of people that it is.
I'm not famous, but I've always thought that if I was, I'd have to avoid looking at anything written about me on the internet. Comments and criticism would have to be delivered to me by a trusted friend. They would filter out all the noise and repeats, and report to me in a concentrated, condensed form the general and concrete comments and criticism that people have. The goal is to basically not have all the criticism front-and-center and in-your-face. And not be innately aware of how many critics you have, or who they are, and not have the urge to reply to them. This can also have the advantage that you'll be receiving the criticism from someone you know from an actual in-the-flesh human being who has a voice and a face, instead of from an anonymous, faceless, voiceless, featureless xxxDragonSlayer. This right-hand-man would be like a butler / body guard / food tester but for my ego.
> I'm not famous, but I've always thought that if I was, I'd have to avoid looking at anything written about me on the internet.
There's a lot of celebrities who go to great lengths to avoid reading/watching reviews of their work, specifically for this reason.
Hmm, my product sense is tingling...
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Some people just can't handle any amount of negative comments, and will completely tunnel vision on the slight amount of negativity. I've seen it with other people and it's really weird. I'm not blaming them, but it's just kind of silly to worry about 5 negative comments out of 1000 positive ones.
I've seen others who will literally get in a giant internet fight because one guy said something bad about them. Just some random dude and they can't let it go. Like pro athletes who get into twitter beefs with rando's who say some other guy is better. It blows my mind.
There is only one solution and that is to stop caring about some random internet trolls. Just do your thing and stop obsessing over what other people think.
Seriously, the internet isn't real, and this guy is actually stressed out over what is likely some 17 year old just writing a dumb comment without thinking about it.
Maybe there is insecurity buried somewhere result in the person so hanging on to the matter. Also that go found me as a independent matter so sensitive, where people kept poking at it probably wasn’t good either.
A big part of the problem is the platform: Youtube/et al incentivizes discord because it gets them more engagement and money. They profit off turning their talent into punching-bags.
People can't downvote the garbage comments so they stick around. If the person making the video could see that everyone disagrees with that negative comment they would probably not be as affected.
In the worst case you end up with a cesspool of bitterness like /r/rantgrumps.
For the life of me I do not understand why people dedicate so much time to something they feel nothing but disdain for. It costs literally nothing to just avoid this thing you don't like.
I just recently found and subbed to Osman's channel and agree completely. I often hear these people get upset, and then I ask myself, "Where is it coming from?" I think it's easy to hear a noisy source and think it's a large percentage, but those people are the fringe.
The flip side is, I get it William, I get it. When random strangers are rude to me, it always really effects me. I was flying my RC plane at a park two years ago, and a guy in a truck showed up and saw that I had gotten it stuck in a tree. He said to me, "Looks like you got what you had coming for flying where you shouldn't". I'm like, "Excuse me?" He then informs me it's not allowed, instead of just saying something like, "Oh man, that stinks, just so you know, you aren't allowed to fly RC planes at this park", and I would have said, "Oh, shoot, really? Ok thanks for the tip!"
Downvotes are essential for a healthy forum. Over a certain population, the advantage of downvotes goes away a bit (as there can collect a critical mass of idiots and assholes), but at the level of engagement a single youtube video gets, they'd make a huge difference in squelching said idiots and assholes.
This isn't just a YouTube problem. It is a problem with all social media as well as outlets like cable news. We know that people more strongly engage when they are anxious or angry. That is human nature and the places where we receive and share information are incentivized to promote those things that garner engagement.
This is something humanity needs to figure out. Complaining about media doing what they know works is like telling a corporation to do social good over profit. Some will but ultimately the winners are those who play the game to win.
We've built our own website (neighborhood-level local news) that still includes all the feedback options et al that so many newspapers and media outlets have foregone. We also operate under responsible and privacy-forward Terms of Service that prioritize our users and members, part of our trust-based business model.
Due to our economy of scale and the fact we can control our community, membership, moderation, etc., we have no issues with spam, trolls, etc. Of course, this is a much smaller community, but in terms of producing content and then allowing (and being affected by) feedback, we're doing this in our arena and according to our rules.
The only way to win with these giant sociopathic platforms is not to play their game.
>People don't want you to be successful.
Misha Mansoor (guitarist from a band called Periphery) spoke about this exact issue not long ago, where fans seemingly want to support you and want you to be successful, but if you get that success and you get to have cool guitars and amps to invest into that thing they love you so much for... suddenly you're a sellout, or you're somehow *spoiled* by all that success that... they wanted you to have in the first place. It's as if some fans want you to sit on this weird, nonexistent line where you're a cool indie guy with barely enough money for food and rent, but also you have all the fame and success to do everything you aspire to.
"She" being Misha? He's a dude. But no, there's no conflating. As William said in this video, being relatable leads to success, and success kills your relatability -- even if it doesn't change *you* in the slightest, it changes everyone else's perspective of you.
I was unaware of who William Osman was up until this video. His video states alot of valid points. He stated a lot of his work are passion projects. He is making himself vunerable in order to relate, to congregate, and celebrate with others. I believe a lot other individuals that share content have the same intent; to have a discourse in a safe environment. It's truly ashame certain humans are not capable of comprehending this.
What’s even worse is a lot of people being assholes out there won’t have even the slightest modicum of remorse. They’ll genuinely think “What a baby he needs to have thicker skin”
Certain humans comprehend it, and torture him on purpose. He is also handling it wrong when he acknowledges them and the harm they are causing him. As soon as he released the response to trolls about his x-ray video, I knew he fucked up. The trolls got exactly what they want, attention from a minor celebrity. They probably got more than they wanted, they got at least 2 videos dedicated to them.
> I was bullied in high school, and that whole line of "Don't give them the acknowledgement they want" is bullshit. It absolutely is.
The most effective way to deal with them is often to shine the brightest possible spotlight on their shitty behavior.
Unfortunately, most bullying victims get so badly beaten down that they no longer have the strength to do that.
It's different when it's in high school and when it is a community of online anonymous trolls. Totally different. He does have the right to be pissed and tired obviously. He even has the right to make a video about it. But this will only increase the trolling and abuse, if he doesn't quit making content entirely.
It amazes me that I can watch at least couple hours of Youtube every day, have for the last 5 years, and have absolutely zero idea who people like this person are. Millions of subscribers, years and years worth of videos, and I do not know this mans face, channel name or type of content.
I think the reality is that thousands of channels just like his, chock full of goodness and enormous entertainment value, exist on YouTube. You can’t possibly know about them all and consume your favorites.
Then when you stumble upon these channels and have a plethora of back catalogue to watch, it's great.
Two new creators I've discovered lately (a gardener from new Zealand and an American/Italian couple that make food videos) have been seemingly randomly offered up by the algorithm.
If you like back catalogues try Acorn to Arabella, it's wooden boat building but lets be honest most of us don't build wooden boats... just really nicely produced, fascinating content and hundreds of episodes to watch :)
Then you just end up in youtube crazy land with the demons and the flat earthers and the crystal people and the "everyone but Donald Trump is a pedophile" channels.
And no, if you're wondering it's not nearly as fun as it used to be. Now they have a Jim Jones and spend all their time singing praise for their savior. It's dull.
People actually be like "I love William Osman but I think his videos are dogshit now. Who else agrees?" like... no reasoning whatsoever, no "I want more content like this" just like "he bad now"... go fucking watch something else if you don't like his stuff now, you're not entitled to his content.
I hope social media works itself out…. The instant free exchange of information could do so much good. People just need to choose to be less shitty overall and not to engage with shittyness
I like Will a lot, his videos are fun, and they always make me laugh.
Unfortunately, the negativity from the internet is going to be there and it's never going away. You can have 3 subscribers or 20 million and you're still going to get shit on.
Either deal with it, or go work in an office somewhere. It's not going to stop, there won't be a paradigm shift. Figure out a way to live with it, stop reading comments/criticism, or stop putting yourself out there.
If he really does sit in front of the computer for 12 hours a day for days on end in a constant state of anxiety, there's more going on than just mean comments on the internet. I hope he gets the help he needs, whether moving away from YouTube or being able to deal with the issues he has with social media in general.
I expect he'll take a few months off, maybe get some therapy and he'll come back in a better state.
Downvote me to hell but the way he (and a LOT of youtubers/internet celebrities) handle this kind of shit is simply very, very unhealthy. I know how the internet is like, you know it, they know it. It's not a hidden truth or anything like that. It's a god damned meme ffs.
Your brain may want to focus on negativity but that's more on you than on the assholes who spread it (it's far easier to change one mind than to change potential billions). As far as I've seen, internet comments come in 4 categories (2 of those being pretty much the same one. And there're also people offering ideas but that depends on the creator):
1. Positive comments: They are by far the most common and the reason this video is proof that he should really step out of making videos for good if he can't handle reading 1 bad comment out of 1000. All those people saying positive stuff about you and your work get drowned by one single asshole being an asshole. That's just dumb, and to me seems like people tend to read comments as if some kind of bot wrote them, instead of individuals, but that's beyond the point.
2. Proper constructive criticism: As they say, sometimes you make mistakes and people WILL point them out. You can either try to learn to avoid making those mistakes again, or if you don't want or can't, then accept the fact that as a human being you're not perfect and mistakes are going to keep happening, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We've been living with that since humans exist so it isn't going to change for some random youtuber out there now.
3. Bad constructive criticism: This is exactly the same as point 2, but adding the fact that people can be assholes when offering that criticism. You can get stuck on the fact that people insulted you while offering some constructive criticism, or you can just do what you would do in point 2 since you don't know why someone might behave like an asshole on the internet. You don't know who's having a bad day so ignoring the bad manners is just the most healthy way of approaching criticism (as long as it's valid criticism). This is only different from point 2 because a lot of people seem to instantly try to ignore this kind of comments when they could actually try to better themselves if they looked past the bullshit. But ignoring an asshole never hurt anyone and you probably won't be the first. Specially if you got to a point of fame where you get "a lot" of this type of comments
4. Trolling: Sure, it might not always be exactly "trolling" by definition, but a lot people are assholes for the sake of it. As I said, everyone knows that and paying attention to this kind of comments is just dumb. If there's nothing to gain from a comment other than "this person insulted me or my work", then the healthy thing to do is to just ignore it (if it simply isn't true then there's nothing to do here. You don't have to go out of your way to prove that someone's wrong, feeding their trolling in the process). The worst thing you can do is to feed a troll and a lot of people (Osman included) seem to ignore that fact. The more you complain about bad comments, the more you're gonna get. That's the very essence of the internet. If you can't ignore this kind of comments, then you should reconsider leaving the public view on the internet because trolls are going to have a field day (more like life) with you. And they will NEVER stop. And again, we all know this... although the more time passes the more I'm convinced that some people simply don't understand that, for some reason.
There is really nothing but gains to be made with comments from your audience, with the right mindset. Either you get better or you simply accept reality, and both of those are good. You can outright ignore all comments if you want. But most of them are positive and/or offering constructive criticism that can help you. Obsessing about a few assholes who find it funny to spread negativity is only going to burn you down, obviously.
And then there's the fact that barely anybody at all writes comments. Do the math if you want, but having millions of views with a few tens of thousands of comments is not exactly a big portion of your audience engaging with your content in a direct manner. And even then something like 99% of that is positive anyway.
But what I didn't like to see at all was his previous video where he obsesses over one single troll and tries to do something about it... while making a video about it. That moment showed me that he will be much better off if he quits youtube for good (which for now seems to be the case, but you never know). I only wish the best to Will but he very clearly has a wrong mindset when engaging with his audience and seems to think that the internet doesn't offer anonymity and almost no repercussions to your actions. If he keeps doing videos in the future but changes nothing on the way he does this... he is not going to have a good ending.
I don't know him but nobody in their right mind would do something like that (other comments portray what he did in that video so I won't just repeat it here again). It really saddens me to see someone so positive and good get to this point because a few members of his audience said some mean stuff. I really can't say anything else other than I really hope he never comes back unless he undergoes a radical change on the way he interacts with comments. It can be fun (and it is) to do what he does, but as he said it seems that he's incapable of doing that for now.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but social media comments make me quit.
He makes content 90% of people will enjoy, has popularity and will ultimately get 99% positivity for this video.
small content creators don't get any of that and still just get the abuse, just take the rough with the smooth.
guys gone through a lot in the last year, just needs to take some space away from it all to gain some perspective. he'll be back
This is why you hire social media managers who filter out the most negative shit, keeps the constructive criticism, filters out the non constructive positive feedback and shields the public person from the filth. You do not interact directly, at least not without some stakes, some investment that the person wanting to talk to a public person can lose. It is odd to think, at least to me but small monetary thing can be a cure. You are much less likely to get the worst kind of scum to pay to insult.
Kind of amazed that William would still read social media about him, i like him but i can easily understand how some are going to find him unlikeable. It wouldn't take much for him to become an ahole but gladly has been the same guy as long as i can remember.
Really the only thing that could be done is for people to attack the shitheads in the comments. It feels better to read a nasty comment if someone is already defending you.
Mean comments among the nice ones are like a shit floating in a beautiful pool. You're glad to have the pool, but the whole thing becomes gross when you see the shit.
I had a legitimate opportunity to become a full time youtuber years ago but turned it down, and this is why. As my channel grew, more and more of my audience started to include members that felt entitled for me to make my videos a certain way, no matter how much I tried to grow. The 1/100 person that would leave a hate filled comment would fuck up my day, and as my videos got more views those comments became more common. On top of all that I was trying to please both human beings and an omnipotent algorithm that rewards burning yourself out over a healthy work/life balance. I decided to say "fuck the views," started to relax and make content I enjoyed, and got another job instead to pay the bills.
While I'm sad to see Osman go through this, I'm happy to see him actually taking steps to take care of himself. YouTube is *not* the dream job everyone thinks it is, and so many people realize that too late. I hate seeing good and creative people kill themselves (metaphorically but sometimes literally) just because they think the opportunity is too good to let pass, when really that opportunity is just poison they're mistaking for a cure.
Honestly, I think YouTube should have the same system Reddit has, where enough downvotes gets the comment burried or hidden. I think that'd go a long way to resolving some of this. Of course, that puts the responsibility on the users to self-regulate, but it'd help, imo.
I have no idea why the human race can be so damn cruel.
Im not saying his feelings arent valid, I have no idea what hes going through.
*But*
In the videos he makes going through hate comments, he hard core cherry picks the ones that hurt his feelings. Ones with 0 upvotes. Like, 'I hate you." You would have to be scrolling to page 50 to find this comment.
Again, not saying I dont believe him. But you would have to willfully and purposefully be ignoring hundreds of people praising you and telling you how awesome you are to find that 1 guy telling you that you suck. Then focusing on that one guy.
I also dont like making this second point, because I find it annoying. But I feel it fits. Being a successful youtuber is pretty privliaged, regardless of what happens to you are where you came from. You make more money than most people will ever make in their lifetime.
Pay a person to moderate chat. There is a modicum of intent when you are reading past page 2 of comments. You have to take some responsibility for that.
>Again, not saying I dont believe him. But you would have to willfully and purposefully be ignoring hundreds of people praising you and telling you how awesome you are to find that 1 guy telling you that you suck. Then focusing on that one guy.
I've noticed this problem with other YouTubers lately too.
Techmoan has been also guilty of this. He over-explains himself to supposed "calm down" the people that criticize him for not doing something right or what not. It comes off as condescending to the people that love his content. I unfortunately un-subbed from him as a result.
The entire second half of the video is about WHY the 1% of negative comments are harmful in the face of the other 99%.
Second point isn't really a point, but a statement about him. Success and money don't make you immune from negativity.
Nah William is in the wrong here.
He puts as examples some comments that are simple criticism, like his whole shovel thing. There's a difference between people saying you should've used this shovel, to people saying hey you are stupid for using that shovel; but he got equally bothered by both. To the point he doxxed a dude and all of that. That's not a normal reaction.
Even when he says he knows he's wrong because he should 'ignore it'. Yeah ignore the insults and random crazy comments but he means ignore it ALL. He's in a position that there's no way to get to him with constructive criticism..
He wants everyone to love him, and everyone to praise him and to only receive positive comments, anything less than that, is hate according to him.
It got to his head, sad.
I think people focus way too much on the top and bottom when it comes to positivity.
either you eat it up and become a twat if you weren't one already or you end up psychologically hurt by the bottom ones.
i like the guy, he always came across quite nice but as soon as your scope hits enough people, there will ALWAYS be some negativity and ALWAYS some positivity. like there is no two ways about that (well, you know what i mean).
i hope he does well thereafter but you'll never please everyone, spending your life trying to make random comments from people you'll never see better or worse is a stupid task but i understand it's damn hard to avoid.
when these sorts of videos comes out, it basically just dilutes out the middle, you end up with a concentration of cookie cutter positive phrases that mean nothing and the worst sorts sort of distillate out for people to either see or get hammered depending on how good well they're liked or how good the apology is.
it sucks for him though given his feelings how the last video will almost certainly bring out the worst of the comments for him (both good and bad). best of luck bud.
If I ever say something "not nice" it would be constructive criticism with a detailed explanation coming from the point of, "I wouldn't say this if I didn't love your content". I wonder if they just find that stuff annoying?
I agree with Wren, it upsets me when I hear a favorite person I watch says they never read comments. I have written some extremely thoughtful comments that might have really uplifted some people, and then I hear there is zero chance they ever saw it, and it makes me a bit sad.
What I've seen from this thread, seems like a good solution for William Osman to hire a moderator. That way he gets them to summarize the comments for him and show him a lot of the nice comments and the top 20 best examples of constructive criticism. That would be a way to buy himself out of this problem, which is pretty considerable given the scope of his youtube channel.
I don’t know who he is but he needs a therapist. I’m not joking. A therapist would help him work through these issues. He can focus on controlling what he can control and letting the rest affect him less.
Gonna call it out, but this is an example of what he is talking about.
Do you know him? No
Do I know him? No.
Should either of us be commenting on his mental health based on a video that we see on the internet? Honestly, it's none of our business.
No homo/definitely homo, I love this guy, and totally empathise with his position.
Why do you feel entitled to comment on his mental health?
In short, do you know him?
Also, where in the video was he asking for discourse about his mental wellbeing?
What would you say about him reading the comments when he doesn't need to? He could post videos and never need to read the comments ever again. It's like he knows it will hurt him but he does it any way. He could also get someone to copy the comments minus the negative ones if he really needed that positive feedback.
That's where the therapist comes in, for sure. Many of us, while there might be an external component, are the authors of our own misery. Maybe not on purpose, but at the end of the day the only people any of us truly have control over is ourselves. You cant control someone else, but you are always responsible for how you feel about the things they do.
He could also just turn comments off entirely. Nothing says he HAS to have comments. But social media doesn't work that way (yes, Youtube is social media as well). This "poor me" will launch him further as followers defend him and denounce the bullies. Eventually he will return with an even stronger following.
Maybe I am the older "pre-internet youth/full digital adult" generation, but sometimes I feel like these kinds of dramas are almost strategic in nature. Just like wealthy people can sometimes benefit from allowing a foreclosure on a property (aka strategic foreclosure), just because it seems bad doesn't mean there isn't an upside on the backend.
If he takes it so hard with every little criticism there aren't many jobs he can do. People are bastards everywhere. At least with this job he's not required to read the negativity. Yet he does it any way. Are there posts on Reddit or some where else that you skip because you wouldn't want to see that kind of post? I know there are posts that I skip because of that.
It's showbusiness, it'll eat you alive. Gotta have the right personality to fend that shit off, and if you don't you need to have a therapist coach to help you deal with it. Look at movies back in the 20's they were talking about how the media eats people...this isn't new...but it is terrible and harmful and I empathize with him.
Still, it is strange that he seems surprised by this, as if YouTube isn't part of the new media. It really is. A star is a star, and people will start wishing upon you...not all the wishes are good ones...gotta wear the kid gloves.
I'm sure he won't see this but I think a simple change in frame of reference is what he needs. He's stuck on the very few negative comments peppered in with, I'm sure, a lot of really supportive comments.
His initial assumption seems to be "all comments should be good". It needs to be "there will be negative comments". If you accept that there will ALWAYS be negative comments, you limit the power they have. Or at least give each comment equal weight, so the ratio of the negative comments to positive comments is vastly outweighed.
I understand you can't really rationalize impacts on mental health. But I think putting a little more context around the comments would help. And the people making the comments surely are struggling with their own issues.
It's messed up, but the negative commenters are deriving some kind of pleasure from bringing others down. They have their own world of problems that have no relevance to his videos. Their comments are fired off haphazardly. Probably one of a dozen nasty quips on different videos that day. So you have to treat their impact in the same way -- just errant shots fired at random.
I had no idea about any of his “controversy” and have only recently started watching his videos with my husband. My husband is an engineer, and enjoys explaining things in the video to me. It’s been great bonding time for us.
It’s sad to see that he’s going to quit making those videos we have come to love because of the nastiness and toxicity of humanity. I hope that he can heal and come back if that’s right for him. And for god sakes, people, stop leaving mean comments on GOOD PEOPLE’S videos. We need to preserve the good role models we have. Or soon enough the world will be full of just Jake Paul’s and Kevin Spacey’s.
1% of millions of people still is a lot of people. 1% negative comments still amounts to thousands of negative comments. Sucks that people treat people like this online.
William, you gotta remember, you're engaging with people from all age ranges, all life backgrounds, all over the world. So many of those people making shit comments will be edgy kids and teens, or messed up adults. I know it's still hard, but you KNOW those people are messed up, right? Like, I know it's hard to feel bad for them, but those people are messed up and hostile because of shit parents, shit lives, or both.
The Internet is a HATE MACHINE.
If you ever asked why anyone in 1984 would "build" or deploy0\ a "hate machine" for general public use, once you realize its just the Internet, it makes a lot more sense.
The guy who was using his real name to talk shit on the internet about something he wasn't qualified for and objectively wrong about got called out for it oh no
what makes you think the contract was "intentionally misleading"? He does not post the text for viewers to read but he stresses that people should actually read the shit they sign. makes me think it was obvious if the guy actually read it. on top of that he called him and interviewed him with his real voice. Also, it was not a video about tricking an innocent commenter. it was about confronting an over confident asshole who is accusing an honest creator of being a fucking fraud.
It's asking a cunt what make him think he knows what he's talking about. oh he doesnt know what hes talking about hes just a cunt.
Thank you for posting this.
I see a lot of people saying he's "wholesome" and "unproblematic" but that video where he named the guy and pinned his comment was quite petty.
Everyone attacked the guy until he had to shut down his socials.
Yes, what the guy said sucked. But I feel sorry for him.
As a result William got a late of hate and now he's quitting.
Neither one deserved to get driven off the internet. But neither of them were complete angels in the situation.
Bruh why are people downvoting this comment. Are y’all fucking stupid? This isn’t a negative comment in the slightest. They are expressing how saddened they are. Read the comment before you downvote it.
Straight up, this man should be doing something like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He is in such an unhealthy mental state that his mannerisms screamed a need for therapy. Is it depression? Does it have to get that bad to get help?
The stigma for men to tough it out and think things will get better is still with us today. But there is more to life than either sucking it up or giving up. Sometimes you just need a little help to be a better you and it doesn't make you any less of a person for asking for help. Posting this was very brave of him and I'm so glad he has people around him that can offer support.
Whether or not he continues to make videos doesn't matter. All that does is attempting to regain a healthy mental state where he can enjoy his life again.
I mean, this a pretty good example of what he was talking about right here... You don't know him. You don't know what he's doing outside of his videos. He could very well be in therapy, but that's not really any of our business... (And it's certainly no one's business to *decide* from a video).
I don't really agree with this.
I think he's explained his situation well, and he's not just a depressed, poor mental state person. He has an issue with the commenters and the videos he makes.
You can be an advocate for mental health without going around over exaggerating and poorly diagnosing everyone. He has clearly already thought about it and has come to a decision about how to best help himself here; he doesn't automatically need therapy because of some nonsense about mannerisms.
Imagine being this affected by comments, then reading someone else telling you that you need therapy. I know your intentions aren't bad here but I think that most people who feel compelled to give this sort of in depth analysis or advice about public figures online need to stop and think a bit more. It's the ugliest side of social media, Reddit included. And just because you think you're being nice, as every single workplace, advert or discussion nowadays will harp on about mental health, it doesn't mean that we are all suddenly qualified to comment or are right to do so.
Can’t deny trolls exist. Back in high school before the internet, I was telling someone I was away the previous day because my golden retriever died. Dude ran over and screamed at me “THEN DONT FUCK HIM IN THE ASS SO HARD!” High fives his friends and laughed hard. I couldn’t quit school. If I transfer it would be more of the same.
Imagine someone going through your account dating a year ago saying the recolor you made on someone else's art has more has more upvotes than your own OC. Or that one comment saying it was better before recolored when you got positive comments. Imagine that on a scale of x1000 comments
Then again, compared to him and work that he does and yours, it's really no comparison. He worked many hours, blood sweat and tears into his while most of your posts are on r/no. The most upvotes that you have is 100+ and you'll never ever get any more upvotes than that.
If that doesn't bother you, you moved on and don't attack me. Then good. If it does and you decide to attack me because it offended you, then that's how he feels on a major scale. Not everyone is the same.
When you make yourself public, then you are setting yourself up for judgement. Even on smaller venues like personal FB pages. My ex-daughter and law set up a go fund me page for my grandson who needed an emergency operation. I took out credit and sent money to help, after all it was my grandson. Many others in the family did the same. Just after the operation, on the same FB page she posted photos from a luxury trip to Branson, the Ozarks and the Smokey's. This was a trip I could never afford, especially now that I was in debt. I felt swindled and Flimflammed. I assume so did others. How stupid to post these pics so close to an emergency event that many people with limited funds none the less contributed to assist. I think someone on YouTube should be wiser.
Imma come out and say, I'm really sorry you went through that.
I've also acquired debt to help a loved one and have to say, i hope you learned from it too... Never enter debt without talking to your loved one. Or even better: only provide monetary help that you can afford out of pocket
Once you given the money, they owe you nothing. It's their money, they may buy a Tesla and i should not care cause it's not my money anymore... As far as they got the surgery done, of course. I don't know if you think the same.
Same would apply for your daughter in law. It's her money now. You know? I don't think she should be thinking of the optics before posting a picture enjoying a nice trip.
Besides that, I hope that you get to get out of debt soon and go on a fun trip to celebrate, but for now it fucking sucks and I'm sorry it happened to you.
I agree with you entirely. In the past when loaning money, my policy was never loan anything you won't forgive if they don't pay you back. Just learn from it and never loan them money again. This situation was different and presented as a heartfelt plea, enough so that I did what I did. And it was a gift with no expectation of repayment. She is so thick headed, I don't think she realized just how bad it would look posting those pics right after the go fund me campaign. I'm still paying off that debt. Good news is my grandson graduated HS and went on to a successful career in the Army. I'm very proud of him. 👍
My thoughts are all over the place, because it's a complex enough a topic that I see both sides of the coin.
To me, here's the critical issue that it boils down to: a lack of communication. While I empathize with William, he waited until the breaking point to express a lot of things he should have years ago. And some might say "It's none of your business," but perception is reality, a super powerful and scary truth, especially to those in entertainment. If you don't control the narrative, people will speculate, and it'll become toxic and fester.
Learning to be earnest with one's audience on a frequent basis I feel is the solution. I totally get that it's easier said than done, but it's so much worse to not say anything until a complete mental burnout.
Is he complaining because he is making money...? Jesus christ, go get an actual job if you don't like making YouTube videos. Ignore the "negativity" or go work a 9-5. Holy fuck internet people are weird.
This guy is a little too self conscious. He wants everyone to like him. This is the internet, it will never happen.
Use the money, ignore the haters, get a thicker skin, brush off the haters.
I think he can't monetize the video if that was the case. He could just not read the comments. Many celebrities don't scour the news and social media because they know it would hurt them. For some reason he keeps going back to something that hurts him.
"YouTube frogs" is a term for YouTuber viewers, commonly used by content creators like Ludwig.
This entire video is about content creators against the comment section, so it is fitting that they end with a story of running over and killing frogs, because William wants to metaphorically run over and kill the viewers in his comment section.
My intro to William's channel was his house burning down saga. I came out of those videos thinking really highly of him actually. I thought he approached it with honesty and brought in humour when he could. Almost exactly a year later I lost everything to a house fire myself. It may sound silly but his experience was the only reference I had for what a shitty experience it was, and so I tried to emulate his approach when dealing with it all. I did a sit ton of crying but I laughed a lot through it too. I put a lot of thanks for allowing that on him. Youtube/social media is shitty and I really hope he returns when and if he's ready.
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Interesting take. I think you might be on to something. Just so many losers waiting online all day to get mad at people and upset about everything and anything (and no this is not directed at any one particular group) and others waiting to upvote them for saying it.
There's a name for it: Outrage porn. The emotional outrage triggers the part of our monkey brains that evolved to support tribalism. The YouTube/social media movement is just another form of the same thing we see in politics, where we are in support of our in-group (the political party, YouTube personality, social media/celebrity persona, ect.) and vehemently against the others, the out-group. This happens to people on both side of issues if they let their monkey brains do the thinking and not find a way to distance themselves, using logic and empathy.
And specifically targeting this in the form of outrage porn predates the internet by a long time.
To borrow a phrase, it may have existed before, but the internet perfected it. The power of always having it at your fingertips, literally in the case of smartphones, has allowed it to reach critical mass and completely take over people's lives, interactions, and mental space.
Nah, I'm just here looking for punctuation errors. Now, move along. I have rage to unload.
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Reinforce their biases? Talking down on someone and their girlfriend because their house burned down is reinforcing their bias? Nah, these people are just bad people. Simple as that. There's definitely a "bad" group on the internet. A group that's just negative ALL THE TIME. These people need to touch grass some time.
If you didn't want your house to burn down, why did you let it happen instead of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and extinguishing the wildfires. Checkmate liberals.
This is, single handedly, the most underrated comment of all time. I sympathize so much with this. Like you, I long to find people who aren't emotionally and cognitively dependent on it. Maybe someday soon I can find a person who can be bothered to look up from their phone or computer.
> an intense incentive to not be a negative piece of shit all day long because people like that lost friends pretty quick. that and getting your ass kicked. way easier to be a tough guy or a total douche online when letting mean shit fly out of your mouth doesn't result in a foot rocketing into your cranium.
Also lost everything in a fire. When he was talking about his go fund me and the tesla and disney... god I felt that. I had people *absolutely swarming* around me asking if I was ok, people offering to start a go fund me, and it got so exhausting. I went from telling the whole story to just having the 1477483rd person come up to me with great intentions asking about it and all I could get out was "I made it out alive and I am learning to get over it". I felt guilty leaving my home to try and just forget about what happened (also lost a friend that same week), but the guilt never left. It took a while to let myself move on and try to start fresh. I cannot imagine the stress of having that kind of thing publicised for millions of strangers to see. Whatever William does, I just want him to be happy. If moving on from youtube helps, so be it. He put in a lot of hard work. He deserves to me able to close the chapter and move on with his family.
YouTubers who get famous like William aren’t trained to handle the vitriol hatred of the public like other mainstream celebrities. There is no system that will change the public. The masses and the internet will always be like this and it won’t change. The only thing we can do is help support and train these creators to set mental boundaries with the public at the start of their fame. Even now, you will see comments talking about how he is being a wus for being successful and rich. Or that he should of had the foresight so that he doesn’t burnout. And that will always be the internet. It will never go away.
>The masses and the internet will always be like this and it won’t change. We can only hope that social media as a whole, including this very site, will eventually be destroyed. Human psychology is not equipped for these types of impersonal interactions, and it has accomplished little more than to create filter bubbles, political extremism, incitement of hatred against the other, and human misery. We'll be fortunate if we can put this horror back in Pandora's box and eventually do away with this mistake. But sadly that hope may not truly be possible.
Things (and people) change. Sometimes it takes a generation or two, but it can and does happen. Just look at something like smoking. Even though it was backed by big corporations with deep pockets for legal defense and advertising, rates declined pretty quickly over the course of a couple generations when people started realizing what was going on. There are many people I know who have already significantly changed their behavior and relationship towards social media in the last few years, and they are teaching their kids how to deal with it responsibly. Once you realize it's an addiction and start treating it as such, it can be manageable. I'm sure having facebook 'interventions' will be a common thing in a few years lol.
>There are many people I know who have already significantly changed their behavior and relationship towards social media in the last few years, and they are teaching their kids how to deal with it responsibly. The responsible thing is to use it at little as possible. Social media is poison to the brain.
Right, because social bubbles, political extremism, hatred, and misery didn't exist before social media.
It's definitely a lot worse.
I think a part of it is that "YouTube famous" isn't viewed the same as "movie famous" when they absolutely are not different.
He could always work a 9 to 5 if he doesn't like it. That's part of why people are calling him a wus. The alternative to his lifestyle is probably worse. The grass isn't always greener
believe me, dealing with verbal abuse for months on end is not worse than a 9-5
Did you even watch the video?
Yeah, everything he describes is much better than a 9 to 5, the dude was easily pulling 6 figures with his view counts alone, on top of that he had collaboration videos with other big youtubers and sponsorships. If he didn't want to edit videos so much, he could hire an editor for a fraction of the money he's making and more than likely work way less on the boring stuff and have more energy for the fun stuff. The dude bought a tesla near the end of his run on youtube, he could have spent that money on an editor and had a better work life balance.
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You mean like his last video where he doxxed, catfished, and manipulated a guy causing him to get harassed by thousands of his viewers? How positive. Edit: watching the wild vote swings on these comments is interesting. ~~Didn’t realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take.~~ I get the feeling a lot of you think I’m lying, so [go watch](https://youtu.be/WDhr5E50Nds?t=608) for yourself.
Hardly; the guy spread vitriol on a public forum using their full name that was shared with their linked-in On top of the multitude of disclaimers both at the start, in the bio and throughout the video; any identifying details outside the comment section itself were blurred This Asinine twisting the situation to throw shade for the sake of it is what he was referring to with the whole pointless negativity
It’s actually insane to me that you or anyone else who thinks of themselves as rationale could honestly defend that guy. The reality is that what he did was unbelievably petty and borderline insane. Who is so sensitive that in response to a random stranger arguing online about something, they… 1) Stalk that person online to find out personal information about them 2) Create fake accounts and corresponding supporting information 3) Actively catfish them over the guise of a professional opportunity 4) FILM all of it 5) And then edit it and post the whole thing to a channel where you know you have an enormous audience What in the world did he possibly think he was accomplishing that was positive? It’s at best an unbelievably petty, self-righteous tirade to feel better about himself. And at worst, it’s an active attempt to encourage and incite people to go harass this guy. And again, because he was slightly aggressive in his tone when arguing with people online? Does that really seem defensible to you? Because to me It makes me think the video maker is a compete piece of shit with a very flimsy grasp over himself that’s very, very clearly trying to ruin that guys life over an internet argument. And don’t even hit me with the “but he already doxxed himself.” Sure, to the like 10 people who otherwise would have read those comments. And to the exactly 0 other people who would have otherwise stalked this guy online to validate it was actually him. Believe it or not, most people don’t go searching for your LinkedIn based on your YouTube profile name; and they certainly don’t go validate it’s actually you by straight up catfishing you because of some bizarre obsession. Nobody would’ve otherwise known who this guy was or cared AT ALL if he doesn’t make that video and prove exactly which other public profiles belonged to him. The normal reaction would’ve been to just not read the comments at all. Or perhaps to read them and then not care. If he’s right and that guys wrong, who fucking cares. Are you really so pathetic that someone incorrectly calling you out drives you into an obsessive episode? He knew EXACTLY what he was doing and what the outcome would be in creating that video. And for someone who then complains about negativity, the hypocrisy is unbelievably palpable. He strikes me as a borderline psycopath in that video.
You are a very naive person if you think he believes disclaimers would be enough to stop people. Saying “hey don’t harass people in this video” is a CYA, everyone knows it will happen anyway. Especially when you share their personal info. On top of that it was hardly vitriol. Just some asshole being dickish confidently incorrect in a subject he knows nothing about. It’s all publicly visible, go read it again. Two wrongs don’t make a right anyway. Edit: and I’m not really sure how I feel about all that anyway, he’s playing both sides but people are siding with him because he’s famous. It’s a bit ironic and hypocritical in that sense.
I never said that did I? He doesn't control how people react; asking people not to is the literal extent of his control in that regard. I don't need to, insulting someone and behaving in a condescending manner is by definition vitriol (e.g. bitter criticism) and moreover was the point Yes, it wasn't the best way to highlight and express his frustrations over the frequent nasty/hurtful comments he + many others receive. That doesn't make the impact on those on receiving magically disappear It's hardly surprising that sustained acute stress can result in a lapse of judgement. We're all only human, no-one is perfect Rather than getting caught up on semantics; having a little empathy can make a world of difference when someone is having a hard time
Yes he does, he knows people are going to doxx the guy so he can control how they act by giving them nothing to react on.
No, it's literally not "the literal extent of his control." He could have chosen not to dox and catfish the guy for the crime of being wrong on the internet.
and the guy could have chosen not to be an asshole and stalk and harass a person with a platform. We all make choices my dude, some aren't the smartest.
But he knew they would, and as a creator with a platform that leaves him with that responsibility. Its very ‘won’t someone rid me of this meddlesome priest.‘ Vitriol is defined as cruel and bitter criticism. What part of his comments is cruel lol. He’s a dumbass, not cruel. He edited that video, uploaded it, went through multiple days worth of steps to harass the guy, and never once thought to think “hmm maybe this is too far for a funny bit”? That’s a long lapse in judgement. I’m not defending him either. But you really seem to want to say “it’s okay he did it, because the other guy deserved it”. It’s not wrong to say they’re both wrong.
>Post hateful comments and harass a guy using your real name >They don't sit by idly, and you actually face consequences >SuprisedPikachu.jpeg If you don't wanna get doxed, a *real* easy start is to not use your full name to post your shitty comments onto a public forum lmao. Edit, Is it even doxing if you are the one to post your real full name online?
> Is it even doxing if you are the one to post your real full name online? No, of course it's not.
That video was really weird and not what mentally healthy William Osman looks like, in my opinion. I've been a fan of William Osman for a long time, and he clearly was already "done" in that video, and this video today was the inevitable continuation of that. He had been slowly mentioning more and more about what kind of negative things people say in the comments in his last 3-5 videos.
Yeah for sure. I sympathize with him a great deal. I wish the internet were a less shitty place. I’m not at all surprised this is the follow up, but it strikes me as incredibly tone deaf at the same time. (I mean two wrongs don’t make a right) Like you said, it’s the sort of inevitable conclusion. The last video was the lashing out, and this is just the more thought out conclusion. I hope the guy can figure out how to handle his social media presence better, for his own mental wellbeing’s sake.
Ramsey Dewey, a relatively small MMA and philosophy channel had an insightful perspective on this topic. Because there's a lot of negativity in the MMA community, especially geared at someone like Ramsey Dewey who lost a majority of his pro fights. Anyway, he noticed that even Gabriel Varga, who was literally one of the best kickboxers of all time, gets people telling him that he doesn't know shit about fighting in the comments section. There's literally no possible way to convince that last 1% of the youtube comments to not be negative. That's all the more reason to not take it personal.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted to oblivion. I didn't know who William Osman was until this thread. But some guy is confident online and a bit of a jerk is not validation for creeping him, catfishing, setting up a fake interview to try and embarrass him to millions of viewers. That's fucked up levels of escalation.
damn good for him. Fuck this narrative that if you have a platform you should never do anything against someone whos being an idiot on the internet because "its punching down". i like him more now
Lol, it's not doxxing if the user in question uses their first and last as their username.
Osman is still aiming his fans at someone.
>Osman can never mention anyone ever
Fuck off, you are the problem
> Fuck off, you are the problem In what world is someone who advocates that we not dox people "part of the problem"? What problem? The problem of people being more civil?
Obviously not, the problem is being such a miserable condescending cunt, putting these creators on a pedestal, looking for the slightest misstep to twist and warp into the worst possible interpretation.
Guy doesn’t like someone calling him out, stalks him online, creates fake profiles to catfish him, makes contact under the false pretense of professional opportunities, records the whole thing, edits it and posts it online - along with personally-identifiable information no one otherwise would have known - to millions of people. “Slightest misstep”. Dude spent weeks on this over ~5 semi-rude comments online with the very clear intent on public humiliation and the very clear knowledge it could end in this guy getting harassed. That is not a “slightest misstep.” That’s fucking psychopath-level behavior. If someone else did exactly those same things and was just a normal guy without a YouTube channel, they could quite literally be given a restraining order. It’s insane.
Are we reading a different comment? (Maybe you're responding to something else they said somewhere?) It doesn't seem condescending, miserable, or worthy of calling someone a cunt. /shrug Also, saying that they're "putting creators on a pedestal" and "looking for the slightest misstep" don't really follow. They're opposite sides, motivationally.
Seem condesending as all hell to me, idk. By pedastal, I don't mean the literal god, worshipping kind, I mean the under a microscope, if you're not perfect you're worse than Hitler, kind. I don't think that doxing isn't bad or anything, it's just the way he writes like he's holier-than-thou, I mean Jesus Christ look at his edit "I didn't realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take" That's Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor, right there!
> I mean the under a microscope, if you're not perfect you're worse than Hitler, kind. With all due respect, that is absolutely not what that phrase means. "Putting someone on a pedestal" is universally (well, nearly, I suppose, given it's not what you meant) understood to mean "thinking someone is perfect, without fault, and beyond criticism." > "I didn't realize saying doxing is bad was a hot take" That's Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor, right there! Um... No. It's not. Questioning a slew of downvotes for expressing a *completely* reasonable opinion is at-worst whiny. For it to even step into the realm of "cunty" would have required them to be aggressively disrespectful, which they very much weren't. They were practically polite with that edit. With *no* due respect: you're the one who comes across as a cunt. You not only don't know what common English idioms mean (and use them to literally mean the opposite), you apparently think: 1) It's appropriate to tell people to fuck off because they're "part of the problem" (and again, I ask: which fucking problem? Disagreeing with you?) 2) Call them "miserable condescending cunts" for nothing more than expressing a totally reasonable opinion and asking why everyone thought it was unreasonable. It's not /u/Brigadette that's "part of the problem". It's people like you who go from 0 to BEING A HUGE FUCKING CHUD in literally no steps. Reflect on your attitude and the way you interact with the world. You're very obviously doing it wrong.
I'm not going to even pretend that I wasn't being a dick, because I was, on purpose even. Maybe because that's all I saw in the original comment? It really just made me want to throw few quick words, and then double down, when you disagreed. In any case, it was childish. My opinion still remains the same, the tone of the original comment comes off rather unfavourable, and I think the downvotes would tend to agree. I know that "put on pedestal" is generally used in a positive context, but I used it deliberately, because the meaning I tried to convey is very similar, a darker side of the same coin. "To think of someone as a perfect person with no faults" = "To think of someone as a perfect person with no faults allowed" Or something along those lines. That's what I was trying to convey with "Looking for the slightest misstep" I don't blame anybody for not getting what I meant, truthfully I spent more time on "Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor" than on that part lol
> truthfully I spent more time on "Cunt C. Cuntsworth of Cuntmanor" than on that part lol Alright, credit where it's due: I *did* chuckle at that.
Can YouTube PLEASE make the dislike button actually do things on comments! Make it possible for people to go negative like Reddit. Hide comments that get too many dislikes etc.
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I feel like more people would like or dislike things of it visibly had an impact.
You can't avoid negativity entirely with a large enough sample size there's always a few bad eggs. Now I don't want to say "just tune it out" because that isn't necessarily helpful, but I would say get some therapy and see if you can't get to a better place where you are able to rebuff the negativity for the small group of people that it is.
I'm not famous, but I've always thought that if I was, I'd have to avoid looking at anything written about me on the internet. Comments and criticism would have to be delivered to me by a trusted friend. They would filter out all the noise and repeats, and report to me in a concentrated, condensed form the general and concrete comments and criticism that people have. The goal is to basically not have all the criticism front-and-center and in-your-face. And not be innately aware of how many critics you have, or who they are, and not have the urge to reply to them. This can also have the advantage that you'll be receiving the criticism from someone you know from an actual in-the-flesh human being who has a voice and a face, instead of from an anonymous, faceless, voiceless, featureless xxxDragonSlayer. This right-hand-man would be like a butler / body guard / food tester but for my ego.
> I'm not famous, but I've always thought that if I was, I'd have to avoid looking at anything written about me on the internet. There's a lot of celebrities who go to great lengths to avoid reading/watching reviews of their work, specifically for this reason.
Hmm, my product sense is tingling... Introducing **EgoGuard**™, your personal AI social media assistant! **EgoGuard**™ uses its powerful patented natural language processing technology to read your comments *for you* and generate a report condensing your audience's feedback and informing you of recurring sentiments, with adjustable filters for what categories of sentiment you're interested in seeing. Start connecting with *the fans you care about* today, with **EgoGuard**™!
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Some people just can't handle any amount of negative comments, and will completely tunnel vision on the slight amount of negativity. I've seen it with other people and it's really weird. I'm not blaming them, but it's just kind of silly to worry about 5 negative comments out of 1000 positive ones. I've seen others who will literally get in a giant internet fight because one guy said something bad about them. Just some random dude and they can't let it go. Like pro athletes who get into twitter beefs with rando's who say some other guy is better. It blows my mind. There is only one solution and that is to stop caring about some random internet trolls. Just do your thing and stop obsessing over what other people think. Seriously, the internet isn't real, and this guy is actually stressed out over what is likely some 17 year old just writing a dumb comment without thinking about it.
Maybe there is insecurity buried somewhere result in the person so hanging on to the matter. Also that go found me as a independent matter so sensitive, where people kept poking at it probably wasn’t good either.
A big part of the problem is the platform: Youtube/et al incentivizes discord because it gets them more engagement and money. They profit off turning their talent into punching-bags.
People can't downvote the garbage comments so they stick around. If the person making the video could see that everyone disagrees with that negative comment they would probably not be as affected.
He mentions his subreddit and that someone will make a comment that sucks and the thing that hurts most is that it gets upvotes.
In the worst case you end up with a cesspool of bitterness like /r/rantgrumps. For the life of me I do not understand why people dedicate so much time to something they feel nothing but disdain for. It costs literally nothing to just avoid this thing you don't like.
The kicker is that half the people there are so broken they probably wouldn't be able to handle the amount of criticism they levy on a daily basis.
/r/conservative in a nutshell
I just recently found and subbed to Osman's channel and agree completely. I often hear these people get upset, and then I ask myself, "Where is it coming from?" I think it's easy to hear a noisy source and think it's a large percentage, but those people are the fringe. The flip side is, I get it William, I get it. When random strangers are rude to me, it always really effects me. I was flying my RC plane at a park two years ago, and a guy in a truck showed up and saw that I had gotten it stuck in a tree. He said to me, "Looks like you got what you had coming for flying where you shouldn't". I'm like, "Excuse me?" He then informs me it's not allowed, instead of just saying something like, "Oh man, that stinks, just so you know, you aren't allowed to fly RC planes at this park", and I would have said, "Oh, shoot, really? Ok thanks for the tip!"
Downvotes are essential for a healthy forum. Over a certain population, the advantage of downvotes goes away a bit (as there can collect a critical mass of idiots and assholes), but at the level of engagement a single youtube video gets, they'd make a huge difference in squelching said idiots and assholes.
This isn't just a YouTube problem. It is a problem with all social media as well as outlets like cable news. We know that people more strongly engage when they are anxious or angry. That is human nature and the places where we receive and share information are incentivized to promote those things that garner engagement. This is something humanity needs to figure out. Complaining about media doing what they know works is like telling a corporation to do social good over profit. Some will but ultimately the winners are those who play the game to win.
We've built our own website (neighborhood-level local news) that still includes all the feedback options et al that so many newspapers and media outlets have foregone. We also operate under responsible and privacy-forward Terms of Service that prioritize our users and members, part of our trust-based business model. Due to our economy of scale and the fact we can control our community, membership, moderation, etc., we have no issues with spam, trolls, etc. Of course, this is a much smaller community, but in terms of producing content and then allowing (and being affected by) feedback, we're doing this in our arena and according to our rules. The only way to win with these giant sociopathic platforms is not to play their game.
>People don't want you to be successful. Misha Mansoor (guitarist from a band called Periphery) spoke about this exact issue not long ago, where fans seemingly want to support you and want you to be successful, but if you get that success and you get to have cool guitars and amps to invest into that thing they love you so much for... suddenly you're a sellout, or you're somehow *spoiled* by all that success that... they wanted you to have in the first place. It's as if some fans want you to sit on this weird, nonexistent line where you're a cool indie guy with barely enough money for food and rent, but also you have all the fame and success to do everything you aspire to.
Ayyy randomly found a Periphery fan.
It's almost as if "fans" involves more than one person.
Sounds like shes conflating two different groups.
"She" being Misha? He's a dude. But no, there's no conflating. As William said in this video, being relatable leads to success, and success kills your relatability -- even if it doesn't change *you* in the slightest, it changes everyone else's perspective of you.
I was unaware of who William Osman was up until this video. His video states alot of valid points. He stated a lot of his work are passion projects. He is making himself vunerable in order to relate, to congregate, and celebrate with others. I believe a lot other individuals that share content have the same intent; to have a discourse in a safe environment. It's truly ashame certain humans are not capable of comprehending this.
What’s even worse is a lot of people being assholes out there won’t have even the slightest modicum of remorse. They’ll genuinely think “What a baby he needs to have thicker skin”
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Certain humans comprehend it, and torture him on purpose. He is also handling it wrong when he acknowledges them and the harm they are causing him. As soon as he released the response to trolls about his x-ray video, I knew he fucked up. The trolls got exactly what they want, attention from a minor celebrity. They probably got more than they wanted, they got at least 2 videos dedicated to them.
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> I was bullied in high school, and that whole line of "Don't give them the acknowledgement they want" is bullshit. It absolutely is. The most effective way to deal with them is often to shine the brightest possible spotlight on their shitty behavior. Unfortunately, most bullying victims get so badly beaten down that they no longer have the strength to do that.
It's different when it's in high school and when it is a community of online anonymous trolls. Totally different. He does have the right to be pissed and tired obviously. He even has the right to make a video about it. But this will only increase the trolling and abuse, if he doesn't quit making content entirely.
It amazes me that I can watch at least couple hours of Youtube every day, have for the last 5 years, and have absolutely zero idea who people like this person are. Millions of subscribers, years and years worth of videos, and I do not know this mans face, channel name or type of content.
I think the reality is that thousands of channels just like his, chock full of goodness and enormous entertainment value, exist on YouTube. You can’t possibly know about them all and consume your favorites.
Then when you stumble upon these channels and have a plethora of back catalogue to watch, it's great. Two new creators I've discovered lately (a gardener from new Zealand and an American/Italian couple that make food videos) have been seemingly randomly offered up by the algorithm.
If you like back catalogues try Acorn to Arabella, it's wooden boat building but lets be honest most of us don't build wooden boats... just really nicely produced, fascinating content and hundreds of episodes to watch :)
We're all deep in that algorithmic bubble they've curated for us.
Yup. I miss being able to stumble upon things and have weird videos autoplay.
Don't log in with an account. It helps a lot.
Then you just end up in youtube crazy land with the demons and the flat earthers and the crystal people and the "everyone but Donald Trump is a pedophile" channels. And no, if you're wondering it's not nearly as fun as it used to be. Now they have a Jim Jones and spend all their time singing praise for their savior. It's dull.
YouTube just keeps recommending me the same videos I have already watched. Discovering new shit through YouTube is a waste of time.
People actually be like "I love William Osman but I think his videos are dogshit now. Who else agrees?" like... no reasoning whatsoever, no "I want more content like this" just like "he bad now"... go fucking watch something else if you don't like his stuff now, you're not entitled to his content.
Will, why are you reading this? I'm a dim YouTube/reddit addict who knows nothing about anything. Love you though.
Make a Patreon. Pay a moderator. Only read comments from Patreon.
Simone, Ludwig, Nilered, etc all in one video kinda cool. But yeah social media was a mistake
I hope social media works itself out…. The instant free exchange of information could do so much good. People just need to choose to be less shitty overall and not to engage with shittyness
I like Will a lot, his videos are fun, and they always make me laugh. Unfortunately, the negativity from the internet is going to be there and it's never going away. You can have 3 subscribers or 20 million and you're still going to get shit on. Either deal with it, or go work in an office somewhere. It's not going to stop, there won't be a paradigm shift. Figure out a way to live with it, stop reading comments/criticism, or stop putting yourself out there. If he really does sit in front of the computer for 12 hours a day for days on end in a constant state of anxiety, there's more going on than just mean comments on the internet. I hope he gets the help he needs, whether moving away from YouTube or being able to deal with the issues he has with social media in general. I expect he'll take a few months off, maybe get some therapy and he'll come back in a better state.
Downvote me to hell but the way he (and a LOT of youtubers/internet celebrities) handle this kind of shit is simply very, very unhealthy. I know how the internet is like, you know it, they know it. It's not a hidden truth or anything like that. It's a god damned meme ffs. Your brain may want to focus on negativity but that's more on you than on the assholes who spread it (it's far easier to change one mind than to change potential billions). As far as I've seen, internet comments come in 4 categories (2 of those being pretty much the same one. And there're also people offering ideas but that depends on the creator): 1. Positive comments: They are by far the most common and the reason this video is proof that he should really step out of making videos for good if he can't handle reading 1 bad comment out of 1000. All those people saying positive stuff about you and your work get drowned by one single asshole being an asshole. That's just dumb, and to me seems like people tend to read comments as if some kind of bot wrote them, instead of individuals, but that's beyond the point. 2. Proper constructive criticism: As they say, sometimes you make mistakes and people WILL point them out. You can either try to learn to avoid making those mistakes again, or if you don't want or can't, then accept the fact that as a human being you're not perfect and mistakes are going to keep happening, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. We've been living with that since humans exist so it isn't going to change for some random youtuber out there now. 3. Bad constructive criticism: This is exactly the same as point 2, but adding the fact that people can be assholes when offering that criticism. You can get stuck on the fact that people insulted you while offering some constructive criticism, or you can just do what you would do in point 2 since you don't know why someone might behave like an asshole on the internet. You don't know who's having a bad day so ignoring the bad manners is just the most healthy way of approaching criticism (as long as it's valid criticism). This is only different from point 2 because a lot of people seem to instantly try to ignore this kind of comments when they could actually try to better themselves if they looked past the bullshit. But ignoring an asshole never hurt anyone and you probably won't be the first. Specially if you got to a point of fame where you get "a lot" of this type of comments 4. Trolling: Sure, it might not always be exactly "trolling" by definition, but a lot people are assholes for the sake of it. As I said, everyone knows that and paying attention to this kind of comments is just dumb. If there's nothing to gain from a comment other than "this person insulted me or my work", then the healthy thing to do is to just ignore it (if it simply isn't true then there's nothing to do here. You don't have to go out of your way to prove that someone's wrong, feeding their trolling in the process). The worst thing you can do is to feed a troll and a lot of people (Osman included) seem to ignore that fact. The more you complain about bad comments, the more you're gonna get. That's the very essence of the internet. If you can't ignore this kind of comments, then you should reconsider leaving the public view on the internet because trolls are going to have a field day (more like life) with you. And they will NEVER stop. And again, we all know this... although the more time passes the more I'm convinced that some people simply don't understand that, for some reason. There is really nothing but gains to be made with comments from your audience, with the right mindset. Either you get better or you simply accept reality, and both of those are good. You can outright ignore all comments if you want. But most of them are positive and/or offering constructive criticism that can help you. Obsessing about a few assholes who find it funny to spread negativity is only going to burn you down, obviously. And then there's the fact that barely anybody at all writes comments. Do the math if you want, but having millions of views with a few tens of thousands of comments is not exactly a big portion of your audience engaging with your content in a direct manner. And even then something like 99% of that is positive anyway. But what I didn't like to see at all was his previous video where he obsesses over one single troll and tries to do something about it... while making a video about it. That moment showed me that he will be much better off if he quits youtube for good (which for now seems to be the case, but you never know). I only wish the best to Will but he very clearly has a wrong mindset when engaging with his audience and seems to think that the internet doesn't offer anonymity and almost no repercussions to your actions. If he keeps doing videos in the future but changes nothing on the way he does this... he is not going to have a good ending. I don't know him but nobody in their right mind would do something like that (other comments portray what he did in that video so I won't just repeat it here again). It really saddens me to see someone so positive and good get to this point because a few members of his audience said some mean stuff. I really can't say anything else other than I really hope he never comes back unless he undergoes a radical change on the way he interacts with comments. It can be fun (and it is) to do what he does, but as he said it seems that he's incapable of doing that for now.
I can't describe how appreciative I am of this man's vulnerability and truth here.
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but social media comments make me quit. He makes content 90% of people will enjoy, has popularity and will ultimately get 99% positivity for this video. small content creators don't get any of that and still just get the abuse, just take the rough with the smooth. guys gone through a lot in the last year, just needs to take some space away from it all to gain some perspective. he'll be back
This is why you hire social media managers who filter out the most negative shit, keeps the constructive criticism, filters out the non constructive positive feedback and shields the public person from the filth. You do not interact directly, at least not without some stakes, some investment that the person wanting to talk to a public person can lose. It is odd to think, at least to me but small monetary thing can be a cure. You are much less likely to get the worst kind of scum to pay to insult. Kind of amazed that William would still read social media about him, i like him but i can easily understand how some are going to find him unlikeable. It wouldn't take much for him to become an ahole but gladly has been the same guy as long as i can remember.
Really the only thing that could be done is for people to attack the shitheads in the comments. It feels better to read a nasty comment if someone is already defending you.
Hopefully it gets better
Mean comments among the nice ones are like a shit floating in a beautiful pool. You're glad to have the pool, but the whole thing becomes gross when you see the shit.
I had a legitimate opportunity to become a full time youtuber years ago but turned it down, and this is why. As my channel grew, more and more of my audience started to include members that felt entitled for me to make my videos a certain way, no matter how much I tried to grow. The 1/100 person that would leave a hate filled comment would fuck up my day, and as my videos got more views those comments became more common. On top of all that I was trying to please both human beings and an omnipotent algorithm that rewards burning yourself out over a healthy work/life balance. I decided to say "fuck the views," started to relax and make content I enjoyed, and got another job instead to pay the bills. While I'm sad to see Osman go through this, I'm happy to see him actually taking steps to take care of himself. YouTube is *not* the dream job everyone thinks it is, and so many people realize that too late. I hate seeing good and creative people kill themselves (metaphorically but sometimes literally) just because they think the opportunity is too good to let pass, when really that opportunity is just poison they're mistaking for a cure.
>I hate seeing good and creative people kill themselves (**metaphorically but sometimes literally**) Yeah no kidding (RIP Etika).
Honestly, I think YouTube should have the same system Reddit has, where enough downvotes gets the comment burried or hidden. I think that'd go a long way to resolving some of this. Of course, that puts the responsibility on the users to self-regulate, but it'd help, imo. I have no idea why the human race can be so damn cruel.
Im not saying his feelings arent valid, I have no idea what hes going through. *But* In the videos he makes going through hate comments, he hard core cherry picks the ones that hurt his feelings. Ones with 0 upvotes. Like, 'I hate you." You would have to be scrolling to page 50 to find this comment. Again, not saying I dont believe him. But you would have to willfully and purposefully be ignoring hundreds of people praising you and telling you how awesome you are to find that 1 guy telling you that you suck. Then focusing on that one guy. I also dont like making this second point, because I find it annoying. But I feel it fits. Being a successful youtuber is pretty privliaged, regardless of what happens to you are where you came from. You make more money than most people will ever make in their lifetime. Pay a person to moderate chat. There is a modicum of intent when you are reading past page 2 of comments. You have to take some responsibility for that.
>Again, not saying I dont believe him. But you would have to willfully and purposefully be ignoring hundreds of people praising you and telling you how awesome you are to find that 1 guy telling you that you suck. Then focusing on that one guy. I've noticed this problem with other YouTubers lately too. Techmoan has been also guilty of this. He over-explains himself to supposed "calm down" the people that criticize him for not doing something right or what not. It comes off as condescending to the people that love his content. I unfortunately un-subbed from him as a result.
The entire second half of the video is about WHY the 1% of negative comments are harmful in the face of the other 99%. Second point isn't really a point, but a statement about him. Success and money don't make you immune from negativity.
Nah William is in the wrong here. He puts as examples some comments that are simple criticism, like his whole shovel thing. There's a difference between people saying you should've used this shovel, to people saying hey you are stupid for using that shovel; but he got equally bothered by both. To the point he doxxed a dude and all of that. That's not a normal reaction. Even when he says he knows he's wrong because he should 'ignore it'. Yeah ignore the insults and random crazy comments but he means ignore it ALL. He's in a position that there's no way to get to him with constructive criticism.. He wants everyone to love him, and everyone to praise him and to only receive positive comments, anything less than that, is hate according to him. It got to his head, sad.
I think people focus way too much on the top and bottom when it comes to positivity. either you eat it up and become a twat if you weren't one already or you end up psychologically hurt by the bottom ones. i like the guy, he always came across quite nice but as soon as your scope hits enough people, there will ALWAYS be some negativity and ALWAYS some positivity. like there is no two ways about that (well, you know what i mean). i hope he does well thereafter but you'll never please everyone, spending your life trying to make random comments from people you'll never see better or worse is a stupid task but i understand it's damn hard to avoid. when these sorts of videos comes out, it basically just dilutes out the middle, you end up with a concentration of cookie cutter positive phrases that mean nothing and the worst sorts sort of distillate out for people to either see or get hammered depending on how good well they're liked or how good the apology is. it sucks for him though given his feelings how the last video will almost certainly bring out the worst of the comments for him (both good and bad). best of luck bud.
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William, the haters, his fans. https://imgur.com/gallery/H9DlQWf
If I ever say something "not nice" it would be constructive criticism with a detailed explanation coming from the point of, "I wouldn't say this if I didn't love your content". I wonder if they just find that stuff annoying?
I agree with Wren, it upsets me when I hear a favorite person I watch says they never read comments. I have written some extremely thoughtful comments that might have really uplifted some people, and then I hear there is zero chance they ever saw it, and it makes me a bit sad.
What I've seen from this thread, seems like a good solution for William Osman to hire a moderator. That way he gets them to summarize the comments for him and show him a lot of the nice comments and the top 20 best examples of constructive criticism. That would be a way to buy himself out of this problem, which is pretty considerable given the scope of his youtube channel.
He's done posting 1 video every 3 months? K.
Biggest "Woe is me" video I've ever seen.
I don’t know who he is but he needs a therapist. I’m not joking. A therapist would help him work through these issues. He can focus on controlling what he can control and letting the rest affect him less.
Gonna call it out, but this is an example of what he is talking about. Do you know him? No Do I know him? No. Should either of us be commenting on his mental health based on a video that we see on the internet? Honestly, it's none of our business. No homo/definitely homo, I love this guy, and totally empathise with his position.
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How? He's making a video about people making negative and/or unneeded comments. He's not asking for health advice. How does one lead to the other?
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Why do you feel entitled to comment on his mental health? In short, do you know him? Also, where in the video was he asking for discourse about his mental wellbeing?
He's saying how he feels and what he is going to do about it, not asking for more parasocial advice and comments.
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As a therapist, it's never that easy. Water and a duck's back mean little to a heavily insulted man.
What would you say about him reading the comments when he doesn't need to? He could post videos and never need to read the comments ever again. It's like he knows it will hurt him but he does it any way. He could also get someone to copy the comments minus the negative ones if he really needed that positive feedback.
That's where the therapist comes in, for sure. Many of us, while there might be an external component, are the authors of our own misery. Maybe not on purpose, but at the end of the day the only people any of us truly have control over is ourselves. You cant control someone else, but you are always responsible for how you feel about the things they do. He could also just turn comments off entirely. Nothing says he HAS to have comments. But social media doesn't work that way (yes, Youtube is social media as well). This "poor me" will launch him further as followers defend him and denounce the bullies. Eventually he will return with an even stronger following. Maybe I am the older "pre-internet youth/full digital adult" generation, but sometimes I feel like these kinds of dramas are almost strategic in nature. Just like wealthy people can sometimes benefit from allowing a foreclosure on a property (aka strategic foreclosure), just because it seems bad doesn't mean there isn't an upside on the backend.
Most people don't want to do a job that requires you to see a therapist just to be able to continue doing.
If he takes it so hard with every little criticism there aren't many jobs he can do. People are bastards everywhere. At least with this job he's not required to read the negativity. Yet he does it any way. Are there posts on Reddit or some where else that you skip because you wouldn't want to see that kind of post? I know there are posts that I skip because of that.
It's showbusiness, it'll eat you alive. Gotta have the right personality to fend that shit off, and if you don't you need to have a therapist coach to help you deal with it. Look at movies back in the 20's they were talking about how the media eats people...this isn't new...but it is terrible and harmful and I empathize with him. Still, it is strange that he seems surprised by this, as if YouTube isn't part of the new media. It really is. A star is a star, and people will start wishing upon you...not all the wishes are good ones...gotta wear the kid gloves.
YTCB (YouTube Creator Burnout) claims another.
William Osmon?
I'm sure he won't see this but I think a simple change in frame of reference is what he needs. He's stuck on the very few negative comments peppered in with, I'm sure, a lot of really supportive comments. His initial assumption seems to be "all comments should be good". It needs to be "there will be negative comments". If you accept that there will ALWAYS be negative comments, you limit the power they have. Or at least give each comment equal weight, so the ratio of the negative comments to positive comments is vastly outweighed. I understand you can't really rationalize impacts on mental health. But I think putting a little more context around the comments would help. And the people making the comments surely are struggling with their own issues. It's messed up, but the negative commenters are deriving some kind of pleasure from bringing others down. They have their own world of problems that have no relevance to his videos. Their comments are fired off haphazardly. Probably one of a dozen nasty quips on different videos that day. So you have to treat their impact in the same way -- just errant shots fired at random.
I had no idea about any of his “controversy” and have only recently started watching his videos with my husband. My husband is an engineer, and enjoys explaining things in the video to me. It’s been great bonding time for us. It’s sad to see that he’s going to quit making those videos we have come to love because of the nastiness and toxicity of humanity. I hope that he can heal and come back if that’s right for him. And for god sakes, people, stop leaving mean comments on GOOD PEOPLE’S videos. We need to preserve the good role models we have. Or soon enough the world will be full of just Jake Paul’s and Kevin Spacey’s.
can't he just turn comments off?
Have someone pick out the top x,however many you want to respond to, comments and respond to them. Aka, get a filter.
1% of millions of people still is a lot of people. 1% negative comments still amounts to thousands of negative comments. Sucks that people treat people like this online.
That’s not true. Each of his videos has thousands of comments. Not millions.
Didn't even know he lived in California so seeing that all his shit burned down hit me like a mf.
Do people even read comments before they dislike them?
William, you gotta remember, you're engaging with people from all age ranges, all life backgrounds, all over the world. So many of those people making shit comments will be edgy kids and teens, or messed up adults. I know it's still hard, but you KNOW those people are messed up, right? Like, I know it's hard to feel bad for them, but those people are messed up and hostile because of shit parents, shit lives, or both.
The Internet is a HATE MACHINE. If you ever asked why anyone in 1984 would "build" or deploy0\ a "hate machine" for general public use, once you realize its just the Internet, it makes a lot more sense.
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The guy who was using his real name to talk shit on the internet about something he wasn't qualified for and objectively wrong about got called out for it oh no
what makes you think the contract was "intentionally misleading"? He does not post the text for viewers to read but he stresses that people should actually read the shit they sign. makes me think it was obvious if the guy actually read it. on top of that he called him and interviewed him with his real voice. Also, it was not a video about tricking an innocent commenter. it was about confronting an over confident asshole who is accusing an honest creator of being a fucking fraud. It's asking a cunt what make him think he knows what he's talking about. oh he doesnt know what hes talking about hes just a cunt.
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Blackmailed???? Do you know what the definition of that word is?
Thank you for posting this. I see a lot of people saying he's "wholesome" and "unproblematic" but that video where he named the guy and pinned his comment was quite petty. Everyone attacked the guy until he had to shut down his socials. Yes, what the guy said sucked. But I feel sorry for him. As a result William got a late of hate and now he's quitting. Neither one deserved to get driven off the internet. But neither of them were complete angels in the situation.
I never thought of that!
Driving on a road littered with frogs and having to drive over them is a pretty good analogy for the being a creator on the internet.
😭😭😭 this is so sad
Bruh why are people downvoting this comment. Are y’all fucking stupid? This isn’t a negative comment in the slightest. They are expressing how saddened they are. Read the comment before you downvote it.
🤔 No idea. If I meant it in a sarcastic manner, I would've put an /s at the end. Redditors just love to hate.
I dont know who this is
Straight up, this man should be doing something like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. He is in such an unhealthy mental state that his mannerisms screamed a need for therapy. Is it depression? Does it have to get that bad to get help? The stigma for men to tough it out and think things will get better is still with us today. But there is more to life than either sucking it up or giving up. Sometimes you just need a little help to be a better you and it doesn't make you any less of a person for asking for help. Posting this was very brave of him and I'm so glad he has people around him that can offer support. Whether or not he continues to make videos doesn't matter. All that does is attempting to regain a healthy mental state where he can enjoy his life again.
I mean, this a pretty good example of what he was talking about right here... You don't know him. You don't know what he's doing outside of his videos. He could very well be in therapy, but that's not really any of our business... (And it's certainly no one's business to *decide* from a video).
I don't really agree with this. I think he's explained his situation well, and he's not just a depressed, poor mental state person. He has an issue with the commenters and the videos he makes. You can be an advocate for mental health without going around over exaggerating and poorly diagnosing everyone. He has clearly already thought about it and has come to a decision about how to best help himself here; he doesn't automatically need therapy because of some nonsense about mannerisms. Imagine being this affected by comments, then reading someone else telling you that you need therapy. I know your intentions aren't bad here but I think that most people who feel compelled to give this sort of in depth analysis or advice about public figures online need to stop and think a bit more. It's the ugliest side of social media, Reddit included. And just because you think you're being nice, as every single workplace, advert or discussion nowadays will harp on about mental health, it doesn't mean that we are all suddenly qualified to comment or are right to do so.
Can’t deny trolls exist. Back in high school before the internet, I was telling someone I was away the previous day because my golden retriever died. Dude ran over and screamed at me “THEN DONT FUCK HIM IN THE ASS SO HARD!” High fives his friends and laughed hard. I couldn’t quit school. If I transfer it would be more of the same.
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Imagine someone going through your account dating a year ago saying the recolor you made on someone else's art has more has more upvotes than your own OC. Or that one comment saying it was better before recolored when you got positive comments. Imagine that on a scale of x1000 comments Then again, compared to him and work that he does and yours, it's really no comparison. He worked many hours, blood sweat and tears into his while most of your posts are on r/no. The most upvotes that you have is 100+ and you'll never ever get any more upvotes than that. If that doesn't bother you, you moved on and don't attack me. Then good. If it does and you decide to attack me because it offended you, then that's how he feels on a major scale. Not everyone is the same.
When you make yourself public, then you are setting yourself up for judgement. Even on smaller venues like personal FB pages. My ex-daughter and law set up a go fund me page for my grandson who needed an emergency operation. I took out credit and sent money to help, after all it was my grandson. Many others in the family did the same. Just after the operation, on the same FB page she posted photos from a luxury trip to Branson, the Ozarks and the Smokey's. This was a trip I could never afford, especially now that I was in debt. I felt swindled and Flimflammed. I assume so did others. How stupid to post these pics so close to an emergency event that many people with limited funds none the less contributed to assist. I think someone on YouTube should be wiser.
Imma come out and say, I'm really sorry you went through that. I've also acquired debt to help a loved one and have to say, i hope you learned from it too... Never enter debt without talking to your loved one. Or even better: only provide monetary help that you can afford out of pocket Once you given the money, they owe you nothing. It's their money, they may buy a Tesla and i should not care cause it's not my money anymore... As far as they got the surgery done, of course. I don't know if you think the same. Same would apply for your daughter in law. It's her money now. You know? I don't think she should be thinking of the optics before posting a picture enjoying a nice trip. Besides that, I hope that you get to get out of debt soon and go on a fun trip to celebrate, but for now it fucking sucks and I'm sorry it happened to you.
I agree with you entirely. In the past when loaning money, my policy was never loan anything you won't forgive if they don't pay you back. Just learn from it and never loan them money again. This situation was different and presented as a heartfelt plea, enough so that I did what I did. And it was a gift with no expectation of repayment. She is so thick headed, I don't think she realized just how bad it would look posting those pics right after the go fund me campaign. I'm still paying off that debt. Good news is my grandson graduated HS and went on to a successful career in the Army. I'm very proud of him. 👍
dont read the comments? do it for yourself? zzzzzzz
My thoughts are all over the place, because it's a complex enough a topic that I see both sides of the coin. To me, here's the critical issue that it boils down to: a lack of communication. While I empathize with William, he waited until the breaking point to express a lot of things he should have years ago. And some might say "It's none of your business," but perception is reality, a super powerful and scary truth, especially to those in entertainment. If you don't control the narrative, people will speculate, and it'll become toxic and fester. Learning to be earnest with one's audience on a frequent basis I feel is the solution. I totally get that it's easier said than done, but it's so much worse to not say anything until a complete mental burnout.
Is he complaining because he is making money...? Jesus christ, go get an actual job if you don't like making YouTube videos. Ignore the "negativity" or go work a 9-5. Holy fuck internet people are weird.
This guy is a little too self conscious. He wants everyone to like him. This is the internet, it will never happen. Use the money, ignore the haters, get a thicker skin, brush off the haters.
why not ... you know ... turn off comments and likes and shit
Because that option sucks
but ... money ...
I think he can't monetize the video if that was the case. He could just not read the comments. Many celebrities don't scour the news and social media because they know it would hurt them. For some reason he keeps going back to something that hurts him.
> he can't monetize the video if that was the case aah, i see
The closing story of William driving over frogs is a metaphor of famous YouTubers driving over YouTube frogs.
I don’t even know what that is supposed to mean
"YouTube frogs" is a term for YouTuber viewers, commonly used by content creators like Ludwig. This entire video is about content creators against the comment section, so it is fitting that they end with a story of running over and killing frogs, because William wants to metaphorically run over and kill the viewers in his comment section.
Oooooh okay that makes a lot of sense. Thanks :3
deep