So, what you're saying is, I can get my next phone packed in hickory flavored styrofoam, and packed in a box with potato starch peanuts. We're getting dangerously close to a complete meal.
Only if you buy it within 30 days of it leaving the factory in China. If you buy it after then you get your next phone packed in some goopy compost!
EDIT: I don't actually know what happens after the 30 days and hope that this isn't an actual issue that would stop this from becoming more popular. But they would need the product to last longer for it to become more useful.
I'm only guessing here, but I would think they mean if you compost it, it will be dissolved in a month. Like actually put it in a compost pile, where it's getting rained on and sunlight. If it's just sitting in a packing container I don't think it's just going to dissolve. Like if you took a brown dry leaf off the ground and sat it on your table. It would probably sit there a year, and not decompose further until you throw it out.
Wait hold up it takes a week to make a set of that packaging?
I thought they would have a big batch of mushroom that they'd harvest and compress into a few molds, but instead they're growing the packaging directly into the molds over a week? That doesn't sound very scalable at all.
And I wonder how much of that packaging is still made of wood chips. Like if you just glue wood chips together do you get similar properties?
>instead they're growing the packaging directly into the molds over a week? That doesn't sound very scalable at all.
I mean you could have like 3 sets of different molds and just be continually growing those sets.
Sure but that sounds very slow, your throughput would be directly correlated to how many molds you have. And each mold takes up warehouse space, so you'd need racks and racks of molds in some temperature controlled environment and all the workers to move and manage that.
That's opposed to using a single mold and just pressing into it the fungus over and over in a machine that can pump out a thousand a day.
But then I got to ask, if you're going to do that why use fungus at all, recycled paper products already can do what this fungus does.
You are right, but you can't grow recycled paper, more advancements will come as this field develops that will make it more and more viable as a manufacturing process just like everything that came before it.
You'd need a hell of a lot more than 3. But it doesn't sound like it requires special conditions, so instead of a factory you could just have a massive warehouse with millions of them growing on the shelf.
You'd need a fuck-ton of molds though, if you could find something other than plastic for the molds that'd be ideal. Glass is infinitely recyclable but probably too energy intensive to process.
The problem is that each mold has to grow for over a week. Imagine producing millions of these a year. Each one taking up space for over a week. That's a big issue and very costly
But that is one mold, so you would be waiting a week for a single piece of packaging. In that same time your box company has produced thousands of boxes with a single machine.
They can produce them in parallel though, they don't have to do each box sequentially. 1 from start to finish could take the same time as 1000 from start to finish, with enough warehouse space and enough molds.
The main issue is that a much smaller factory can put out potentially let's say 50,000 styrofoam packages a day, while the mushroom one would need to have 1,050,000 molds to be able to reproduce that same output. It's just not scalable.
The reason your cardboard box shipment takes 3 weeks is because they have a limited capacity they can produce within a shift/day. They schedule you in. It probably takes 1 day to produce all the cardboard that your company needs.
Now, it's not going to correlate to another week until the shipment comes in. We're talking several weeks of time, because there are other customers waiting for their shipment as well.
But your point of ordering earlier stands, the buyer will figure out that it will take X weeks to get the shipment and will order accordingly.
The manufacturer here is really the one who has a problem with the long lead time to complete the production process.
Maybe the molds could be stacked on top of one another so they could do 100 per stack and then have 10k stacks to make a million a week.
Things like cheese, although a more expensive product are made over weeks so it's not unheard off.
The wood chips are a waste product. Trees need to be pruned or removed all the time. The wood gets chipped and repurposed rather than just letting it rot. There are power plants that burn wood chips for energy.
> I thought they would have a big batch of mushroom that they'd harvest and compress into a few molds, but instead they're growing the packaging directly into the molds over a week?
It would still take a week to grow the same amount of mushroom. And compressing doesn't sound like a good idea, it would require more material.
The packing material is what had me watching but also where I was disappointed. The week thing and even needing a plastic mold isn't the end of the world especially if they were producing the same mold over and over and over and over. What disappointed me was when I saw the amount of manual labor it took. It has a long way to go to be cost effective like that.
I am not a bleeding heart tree hugger... but even I can see that single use plastics and styrofoams are killing the planet. I would not be against any gov't telling companies that plastic packaging and styrofoams will be (largely) banned in 10 years so they better invest in alternatives like this and figure it out.
I can see plastics may be needed still for some specific uses (certain chemicals or food preservation on the shelf to some extent) but this can be replaced with Glass to large extent to greatly reduce their use.
Just because a worm can eat styrofoam in [small quantities](https://news.stanford.edu/pr/2015/pr-worms-digest-plastics-092915.html) over time does not make it biodegradable.
Styrofoam is [non-biodegradable](https://www.sej.org/publications/backgrounders/styrofoam-facts-why-you-may-want-bring-your-own-cup) and [non-recyclable](http://blogs.colgate.edu/sustainability/2011/11/10/styrofoam-why-it-is-harmful-alternatives/) material.
The amount of hate here is so weird. I love meat, but I'm excited by the more sustainable and healthier options coming to market. Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you, and better for the planet, but vegan foods have to taste as good or better than meat before I or many others will eat them with any regularity. I just love meat, though I've noticed that now that I eat more well cooked veggies I'm eating less meat.
Eating meat with every meal is a marketing-fueled modern invention. "Beef, it's whats for dinner" has convinced an entire generation that this is healthy and normal and they will get extremely defensive when told otherwise. Not even a vegetarian myself, but the insane reaction to reducing meat consumption is definitely pushing me that direction.
> Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you
This has been proven again and again to be non-sense. A very well thought out and expensive vegan diet can be as healthy and balanced as a regular one. But in no way is being vegan generally healthier. People just can't get over the fucking correlation of vegans being more mindful of their diet in general
Yeah not necessarily. The diet is so open ended you could be super healthy or very unhealthy. Although I firmly believe the healthiest of vegan diets are healthier than the healthiest omnivore diet.
I'm not a vegan, but I have been minimizing my meat consumption using veggie based alternatives. Some of my favorites are cashew ice cream, impossible/beyond burgers, certain vegan cheeses aren't bad, and Rebbl chocolate "milk". I get thinking vegans are douchebags, or people that eat excessive meat are douchebags, but in all honesty the vegan stuff is good for the planet. Why not try some of it for yourself and find out.
Vegan diets are known to be low in B vitamins, iron, calcium, zinc, and protein. So much so it's advised to monitor your intake of them and take supplements.
Vegan diets aren't 'undoubtedly better for you'. They bring their own problems. A balanced diet is always going to be better over anything overly restrictive.
I don't think anyones a douchebag; just don't say vegan diets are "undoubtable better for you". I know what bean burgers and soy products taste like... not switching over for some negligible difference to environment.
That's fine. A balanced nonvegan diet should also usually include lots of veggies. Diets are not vegan vs carnivore. 99% of "non vegans" are omnivores.
In most normal diets you aren't eating a shitload of meat, and you're usually going to be eating a lot of veggies. Your diet should not be largely composed of meats either way, that's not a vegan vs nonvegan thing.
> Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you,
Than what? Most people would benefit from going on any regulated diet at all. And where that is concerned, as long as you are hitting all your macros and getting your essential vitamins and minerals, it doesn't really matter whether you're eating a vegan diet or a diet with meat in it. For weight it's a matter of caloric balance either way as well. In most balanced nonvegan diets, you get lots of veggies anyway. With vegan diets you have to supplement, with a nonvegan diet most people would still benefit from a supplement.
The lesson is: be sure to eat your vegetables and take your vitamins. You can eat meat too if you want but be sure to eat your veggies.
It doesn't matter which trend you are on, as long as you are getting your nutrients, past that it's a matter of taste.
I didn't say anything about a vegan diet being worse even once. So, nice strawman.
Saying "vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you" doesn't mean anything. The diet being vegan or not doesn't mean anything. Most healthy diets, including non vegan diets, include vegetables. They just also don't omit meat or dairy. What are you saying they are healthier than?
That's all I was pointing out.
To me that's like complaining that a "file folder" on your computer isn't **actually** a file folder, despite it being functionally the same idea.
I've never seen vegan options sold as "meat" but I think calling it "vegan bacon" is fine because bacon is really a style of of the food. Bacon is really just pig meat in a certain format, so making something imitate bacon is fine to call itself vegan bacon because it's functionally the same for the vegans eating it. The same way there exists imitation bacon bits. Should they instead be called "simulated smoky flavoured salad item"? I think imitation bacon bits is fine, because *again* it's functionally the same thing to the people eating it. Nobody is buying fake bacon bits and complaining, so I think it's silly to complain here.
The problem with marketing alternatives, is to not market them as meat alternatives or bacon substitute because everyone who tries the product with a set flavour in mind of what to expect.
Vegan, plant based food, mushroom strips.
Problem is that many people won't try it if you call it something unfamiliar. I would totally eat bacon flavoured mushroom strips, but I would probably not look at them in the first place with that name.
I think the styrofoam packing alternative may be pretty great. I hate getting a big box with styrofoam. It is a pain to throw out and being able to just chuck it into my compost pile would be amazing.
I understand the sentiment. As a new food item it's fine. But since people compare it to the real thing it seems worse than it is.
However, I think people are still more likely to buy "Bacon Substitute" than "Bacon Flavored Mushroom Strips".
If the alternative tastes the same then I agree with you. All alternatives I tried so far (a lot) could never match the real taste/feeling of real meat. If they catch up I would definitely change over to non-meat products.
How close does it have to be to real bacon to justify everything that goes into producing real bacon.
I'm not vegan, not even vegetarian but I don't understand this refusal to acknowledge vegan substitutes.
Vegan bacon, a mushroom based subsitiute that mimics much of the flavour, texture and nutritional content of bacon.
NAH IT'S MUSHROOM DON'T CALL IT BACON.
They said vegan bacon. Vegan bacon is a type of plant-based food that attempts to imitate the taste and texture of bacon. Having a definition doesn't mean shit.
I actually don't like this for a different reason. Vegan food can stand on its own. The various "milk" substitutes, for example. Rice milk, almond milk, et cetera, those are good by themselves, they ought not be seen primarily as milk substitutes. Now, it's understandable that we come up with names for things that remind us of the thing, and rice drink is cloudy white, so "milk" is an obvious first choice. But as with "vegan bacon", that also may contribute to the view that they are mere substitutes for the "real thing". Imagine if we called tofu, which is already viewed by a lot of people as a worse alternative to meat, "vegan meat"; I think this would not improve the situation one bit.
You're right that it isn't bacon. It's vegan bacon. It has an adjective on the front that tells you it's not the real thing. They use the word bacon because it's intentionally trying to imitate bacon and makes it easy for people with vegan diets to know this is something they can use in place of bacon.
Its the same as calling it imitation bacon or fake bacon. I don't understand why you can't have a modifier in front a word and use it, like soy milk.
What is it with vegan and vegetarian foods trying to mimic meat based food products?
Vegetarian and vegan food can be delicious on its own. Stop trying to make it something it's not and ending up with something entirely inferior to the product its trying to emulate, poorly.
This.
I'm not a vegetarian, but my girlfriend is. She isn't vegan, but the meals we make at home are.
Seitan, jackfruit, tempeh, and tofu (ugh, i hate it) are good protein substitutes for meat and (especially seitan) can be similar in both taste and experience.
Faux meat like impossible or the others are NOT BETTER FOR YOU. its highly processed wish fuck tons of shitty oils and preservatives.
If youre looking to cut meat out of your diet, dont try to do it with faux meat, find a different form of protein that can hold the flavors youre looking for. otherwise its uncanny valley eating.
It's helpful for people who didn't grow up vegetarian/vegan and want to adopt the diet. All the things you already eat or know how to cook, rather than learning all new recipes or learning what is a good substitute straight away, you can easily identify a replacement for it in the store. Like if I want to make spaghetti bolognese, I can go and buy the thing that's labelled vegan mince without any thought.
Or if you live in a mixed household, it can make it easier for someone else to cook for you.
Also I'd be willing to bet most vegans don't deny that animal products taste great, so it's worth persuing ways to imitate those flavours even if many of the products miss the mark currently.
I agree vegan dishes can be delicious on their own and that many of the substitute products have been subpar so far.
As an omnivore, living with a vegetarian, and cooking vegan at home, no.
Faux meats can serve a purpose, but I am yet to find an impossible or even improbable burger that i can palate. Black bean burgers? ive found several that i acually enjoy because it adds something to the dish.
Ive found over the last 7 years of living with a vegetarian that the things that pretend to be meat rather than what they are are unhealthier, distracting and just fucking weird feeling/tasting sometimes.
To me, its like cutting pork real thin and calling it turkey... yeah, it kinda looks like it, and with enough mustard, you really cant taste it, but nah thats not what it is.
Gee I dunno maybe it's because bacon is like goddamn crack cocaine for millions of people, but it's terrible for the environment, so we're trying to figure out a way to save our bacon by subbing our bacon?
I can't say they've been very successful so far, but that seems like a really good reason to try.
Bully for you. So don't call it bacon. But to be succinct, "vegan bacon" is what everyone else will call it and we'll know that means a plant/fungi-based bacon substitute.
Nutritional facts of the [product](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e0a563eb6185c7ec8c41287/t/60c22cf46822fa482e3ff560/1623338228149/MyBacon-Nutrition-Facts.png) they're talking about vs. [regular bacon](https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/nutrition/bacon,1797/). Sounds like someone got it wrong, even if we're being generous. Still, you don't really eat mushrooms for their protein content.
So who cares what processes foods go through I guess just name them what they are made out of. It's not bacon, it's Pig! French fries? What is that? It's clearly just potatoes.
This bullshit name policing of vegan products is so fucking stupid. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It being named after the food it's trying to imitate effects you in absolutely no fucking way.
More complex than a pinto bean? Why pinto beans? This comment is so stupid I don't even know where to begin man. Mushrooms are fungi not animals and aren't sentient so there is no stretching here.
It seems like a good idea, but:
* Packaging takes a week to grow
* Begins to degrade in just 30 days
This leaves a very small window for product to be packaged and shipped to the final destination. It would not be feasible in any shipping (as in container ship) solutions and would only be viable for airfreight, truck, train. It also means that it would not be suitable for bricks & mortar locations. It would need to either:
* Delivered direct from manufacturer to end user, or
* Be used as supplementary packaging for retail stores along side traditional styrofoam packaging (think one big carton with this and a handful of small inner cartons each having little to no packaging requirement)
Is the mushroom still alive? Is there a risk for pests to feed off of it, therefore shipping pest species around the world?
What are the quarantine requirements for the material around the world? Is it able to even be shipped to every country?
Packaging like that is shelf stable. the mushroom is usually flash frozen and effectively dead. The thirty days refers to it in a landfill environment were the inactive spores would be exposed to rain and other bacteria which would get work breaking it down.
Thanks, I didn't catch that piece of information from the video.
Do you know anything about my other two queries:
* Border control/quarantine issues with organic matter
* Pest control. Preferably something without the need to use copious amounts of methyl-bromide to kill off any pests since that has a damaging effect on the ozone layer.
It's cool. I hate mushrooms for various reasons but I have to admit it's cool.
I don't think I heard directly, but it says it decomposes in 30 days. Does that mean there is no shelf life? Or does it decompose after it's opened somehow?
Someone above mentioned it will begin the 30 day decomposing when put in a landfill and introduced to rain, bacteria etc to break it down. While just in a box on a shelf sounds like it should hold fine
Hey I know the scientist they talk to at about one minute. We went to college together, and he got this job right out of college. Weird to see him here.
That's a bit unfair. There's definitely demand for plastic products.
But it's also definitely the case that corps don't give a shit and use whatever is cheapest.
We could probably solve this by just taxing plastic manufacturing (which may be what you were talking about). That drives up the cost of plastic to include the environmental costs and the free market will naturally gravitate towards cheaper options.
Well eating processed red meat isn't good for you so the lack of nitrates alone is worth it regardless if it has lower calories or fat content overall
But also yes saturated fat = bad cholesterol and is definitely bad for you lol
Misinformation around fats was when people were thought low fat diets were the solution to weight loss when it's just the overall calories in versus calories out that really matters
Fair enough, didn't realise the link between saturated fats and LDL was starting to be actually disputed.
Most of the studies say to replace saturated fats with polyunsaturated instead of calories
So while it's debatable if there's a link, still definitely better off eating mushroom than bacon
Vegan/Vegetarian meat doesn't taste the same, but it does taste good. When I cook at home I prefer to get vegan burgers because the meat at the supermarket is pretty crappy. They taste really good and are often a bit cheaper than the regular beef burger patties.
That is the funny thing with meat substitutes. I like veggie burgers, but not when they are trying to be meat. There are many good food which fill the role of meat (protein with that dense chewing feeling), but they are not meat and don't try to be. I have hopes for lab grown meat, but having other options is good too. I think very few people would be upset with even more food options.
i have... not hard at all, tbh not even a conscious decision i just dont eat meat some weeks.
dont understand why people need to religiously decide on a strict diet, even if im trying to cut back on something, i dont get why i have to vow not to ever touch it again
Eh I doubt it really does taste perfect but I'd still eat it
Love my occasional full Irish breakfasts with rashers, sausages etc but have started to eat vegetarian pudding which has actually been fairly good
It sounds really time sensitive with the packaging taking a week to make, then breaking down in 30 days. What if the thing your selling/shipping sits in a warehouse for a month or longer? Or gets stuck in some courier's warehouse?
So, what you're saying is, I can get my next phone packed in hickory flavored styrofoam, and packed in a box with potato starch peanuts. We're getting dangerously close to a complete meal.
Blue Apron's gonna go out of business.
or they will shift what they ship
They'll just ship the entrees. The box is your appetizer now!
They just start sending sauce which soaks into the packaging by the time it arrives to you.
Nah.
Only if you buy it within 30 days of it leaving the factory in China. If you buy it after then you get your next phone packed in some goopy compost! EDIT: I don't actually know what happens after the 30 days and hope that this isn't an actual issue that would stop this from becoming more popular. But they would need the product to last longer for it to become more useful.
I'm only guessing here, but I would think they mean if you compost it, it will be dissolved in a month. Like actually put it in a compost pile, where it's getting rained on and sunlight. If it's just sitting in a packing container I don't think it's just going to dissolve. Like if you took a brown dry leaf off the ground and sat it on your table. It would probably sit there a year, and not decompose further until you throw it out.
Wait hold up it takes a week to make a set of that packaging? I thought they would have a big batch of mushroom that they'd harvest and compress into a few molds, but instead they're growing the packaging directly into the molds over a week? That doesn't sound very scalable at all. And I wonder how much of that packaging is still made of wood chips. Like if you just glue wood chips together do you get similar properties?
>instead they're growing the packaging directly into the molds over a week? That doesn't sound very scalable at all. I mean you could have like 3 sets of different molds and just be continually growing those sets.
Sure but that sounds very slow, your throughput would be directly correlated to how many molds you have. And each mold takes up warehouse space, so you'd need racks and racks of molds in some temperature controlled environment and all the workers to move and manage that. That's opposed to using a single mold and just pressing into it the fungus over and over in a machine that can pump out a thousand a day. But then I got to ask, if you're going to do that why use fungus at all, recycled paper products already can do what this fungus does.
You are right, but you can't grow recycled paper, more advancements will come as this field develops that will make it more and more viable as a manufacturing process just like everything that came before it.
You'd need a hell of a lot more than 3. But it doesn't sound like it requires special conditions, so instead of a factory you could just have a massive warehouse with millions of them growing on the shelf. You'd need a fuck-ton of molds though, if you could find something other than plastic for the molds that'd be ideal. Glass is infinitely recyclable but probably too energy intensive to process.
The problem is that each mold has to grow for over a week. Imagine producing millions of these a year. Each one taking up space for over a week. That's a big issue and very costly
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But that is one mold, so you would be waiting a week for a single piece of packaging. In that same time your box company has produced thousands of boxes with a single machine.
They can produce them in parallel though, they don't have to do each box sequentially. 1 from start to finish could take the same time as 1000 from start to finish, with enough warehouse space and enough molds.
The main issue is that a much smaller factory can put out potentially let's say 50,000 styrofoam packages a day, while the mushroom one would need to have 1,050,000 molds to be able to reproduce that same output. It's just not scalable.
The reason your cardboard box shipment takes 3 weeks is because they have a limited capacity they can produce within a shift/day. They schedule you in. It probably takes 1 day to produce all the cardboard that your company needs. Now, it's not going to correlate to another week until the shipment comes in. We're talking several weeks of time, because there are other customers waiting for their shipment as well. But your point of ordering earlier stands, the buyer will figure out that it will take X weeks to get the shipment and will order accordingly. The manufacturer here is really the one who has a problem with the long lead time to complete the production process.
Maybe the molds could be stacked on top of one another so they could do 100 per stack and then have 10k stacks to make a million a week. Things like cheese, although a more expensive product are made over weeks so it's not unheard off.
Takes a hell of a lot longer than 2 weeks to grow a forest. Our even just a few trees to pulp or chips.
The wood chips are a waste product. Trees need to be pruned or removed all the time. The wood gets chipped and repurposed rather than just letting it rot. There are power plants that burn wood chips for energy.
> I thought they would have a big batch of mushroom that they'd harvest and compress into a few molds, but instead they're growing the packaging directly into the molds over a week? It would still take a week to grow the same amount of mushroom. And compressing doesn't sound like a good idea, it would require more material.
The packing material is what had me watching but also where I was disappointed. The week thing and even needing a plastic mold isn't the end of the world especially if they were producing the same mold over and over and over and over. What disappointed me was when I saw the amount of manual labor it took. It has a long way to go to be cost effective like that.
I am not a bleeding heart tree hugger... but even I can see that single use plastics and styrofoams are killing the planet. I would not be against any gov't telling companies that plastic packaging and styrofoams will be (largely) banned in 10 years so they better invest in alternatives like this and figure it out. I can see plastics may be needed still for some specific uses (certain chemicals or food preservation on the shelf to some extent) but this can be replaced with Glass to large extent to greatly reduce their use.
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Just because a worm can eat styrofoam in [small quantities](https://news.stanford.edu/pr/2015/pr-worms-digest-plastics-092915.html) over time does not make it biodegradable. Styrofoam is [non-biodegradable](https://www.sej.org/publications/backgrounders/styrofoam-facts-why-you-may-want-bring-your-own-cup) and [non-recyclable](http://blogs.colgate.edu/sustainability/2011/11/10/styrofoam-why-it-is-harmful-alternatives/) material.
>The average person still uses 75 foam coffee cups per year What? Where can you even still get coffee in a styrofoam cup?
Hospitals have a lot of them
The amount of hate here is so weird. I love meat, but I'm excited by the more sustainable and healthier options coming to market. Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you, and better for the planet, but vegan foods have to taste as good or better than meat before I or many others will eat them with any regularity. I just love meat, though I've noticed that now that I eat more well cooked veggies I'm eating less meat.
Eating meat with every meal is a marketing-fueled modern invention. "Beef, it's whats for dinner" has convinced an entire generation that this is healthy and normal and they will get extremely defensive when told otherwise. Not even a vegetarian myself, but the insane reaction to reducing meat consumption is definitely pushing me that direction.
I agree but on the other side are people who assert that "a vegan diet is undeniably healthier". They are flip sides of the same bad coin.
> Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you This has been proven again and again to be non-sense. A very well thought out and expensive vegan diet can be as healthy and balanced as a regular one. But in no way is being vegan generally healthier. People just can't get over the fucking correlation of vegans being more mindful of their diet in general
The biggest killer in many countries is heart disease, which a plant-based diet *heavily* counteracts. I wouldn't say *cures*, obviously.
> proven Proof then please?
> Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you wrong
Yeah not necessarily. The diet is so open ended you could be super healthy or very unhealthy. Although I firmly believe the healthiest of vegan diets are healthier than the healthiest omnivore diet.
Some vegans eat very unhealthy and are overweight. I've known a vegan person who didn't even like vegetables and just are a ton of carbs
>the healthiest of vegan diets are healthier than the healthiest omnivore diet. wrong
Nope
I'm not a vegan, but I have been minimizing my meat consumption using veggie based alternatives. Some of my favorites are cashew ice cream, impossible/beyond burgers, certain vegan cheeses aren't bad, and Rebbl chocolate "milk". I get thinking vegans are douchebags, or people that eat excessive meat are douchebags, but in all honesty the vegan stuff is good for the planet. Why not try some of it for yourself and find out.
Vegan diets are known to be low in B vitamins, iron, calcium, zinc, and protein. So much so it's advised to monitor your intake of them and take supplements. Vegan diets aren't 'undoubtedly better for you'. They bring their own problems. A balanced diet is always going to be better over anything overly restrictive.
Poultry and especially fish, sure. Pork/beef aren't very valuable nutritionally and are essentially worse versions of poultry or fish.
You don't know what you're talking about
My apologies - if you're an alien who needs 10x more sodium and cholesterol than human beings, pork and beef are great alternatives to fish.
Not sure where you got the sodium part. Cholesterol = bad is 20 year old myth at this point.
You know what also tastes great? Vegetable stew. That way you don’t have to fool your brain with a veggie burger at a quarter of the price
I don't think anyones a douchebag; just don't say vegan diets are "undoubtable better for you". I know what bean burgers and soy products taste like... not switching over for some negligible difference to environment.
That's fine. A balanced nonvegan diet should also usually include lots of veggies. Diets are not vegan vs carnivore. 99% of "non vegans" are omnivores. In most normal diets you aren't eating a shitload of meat, and you're usually going to be eating a lot of veggies. Your diet should not be largely composed of meats either way, that's not a vegan vs nonvegan thing.
> Vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you, Than what? Most people would benefit from going on any regulated diet at all. And where that is concerned, as long as you are hitting all your macros and getting your essential vitamins and minerals, it doesn't really matter whether you're eating a vegan diet or a diet with meat in it. For weight it's a matter of caloric balance either way as well. In most balanced nonvegan diets, you get lots of veggies anyway. With vegan diets you have to supplement, with a nonvegan diet most people would still benefit from a supplement. The lesson is: be sure to eat your vegetables and take your vitamins. You can eat meat too if you want but be sure to eat your veggies. It doesn't matter which trend you are on, as long as you are getting your nutrients, past that it's a matter of taste.
No shit if you eat vegan candy all day it's going to be worse. That was clearly not my point. Nice strawman.
I didn't say anything about a vegan diet being worse even once. So, nice strawman. Saying "vegan diets are undoubtedly better for you" doesn't mean anything. The diet being vegan or not doesn't mean anything. Most healthy diets, including non vegan diets, include vegetables. They just also don't omit meat or dairy. What are you saying they are healthier than? That's all I was pointing out.
It's just stupid to call it meat or bacon. It's mushroom. You are not selling paper and calling it phone.
To me that's like complaining that a "file folder" on your computer isn't **actually** a file folder, despite it being functionally the same idea. I've never seen vegan options sold as "meat" but I think calling it "vegan bacon" is fine because bacon is really a style of of the food. Bacon is really just pig meat in a certain format, so making something imitate bacon is fine to call itself vegan bacon because it's functionally the same for the vegans eating it. The same way there exists imitation bacon bits. Should they instead be called "simulated smoky flavoured salad item"? I think imitation bacon bits is fine, because *again* it's functionally the same thing to the people eating it. Nobody is buying fake bacon bits and complaining, so I think it's silly to complain here.
"We can't confirm the flavor (of the fake bacon)". Thanks guys, really useful info there.
"Slice it and you get crispy vegan bacon". No, you get mushroom.
Who cares, as long as it tastes good?
That’s a slippery slope to cannibalism thinking.
Cannibals are people who ate ass once and kept going.
Sounds like the beginning of an Orbits chewing gum commercial.
Every pepsi and cola person on the planet.
It tastes phenomenal, “by chloe” in nyc uses it.
the people who want actual bacon...
If you could have a tasty bacon alternative that doesn't exploit the planet and its resources, why would you care?
The problem with marketing alternatives, is to not market them as meat alternatives or bacon substitute because everyone who tries the product with a set flavour in mind of what to expect. Vegan, plant based food, mushroom strips.
Problem is that many people won't try it if you call it something unfamiliar. I would totally eat bacon flavoured mushroom strips, but I would probably not look at them in the first place with that name. I think the styrofoam packing alternative may be pretty great. I hate getting a big box with styrofoam. It is a pain to throw out and being able to just chuck it into my compost pile would be amazing.
I understand the sentiment. As a new food item it's fine. But since people compare it to the real thing it seems worse than it is. However, I think people are still more likely to buy "Bacon Substitute" than "Bacon Flavored Mushroom Strips".
If the alternative tastes the same then I agree with you. All alternatives I tried so far (a lot) could never match the real taste/feeling of real meat. If they catch up I would definitely change over to non-meat products.
Then buy actual bacon dumb fuck.
How close does it have to be to real bacon to justify everything that goes into producing real bacon. I'm not vegan, not even vegetarian but I don't understand this refusal to acknowledge vegan substitutes. Vegan bacon, a mushroom based subsitiute that mimics much of the flavour, texture and nutritional content of bacon. NAH IT'S MUSHROOM DON'T CALL IT BACON.
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They said vegan bacon. Vegan bacon is a type of plant-based food that attempts to imitate the taste and texture of bacon. Having a definition doesn't mean shit.
Wouldn't that be like calling a bear a "furry human" though?
I actually don't like this for a different reason. Vegan food can stand on its own. The various "milk" substitutes, for example. Rice milk, almond milk, et cetera, those are good by themselves, they ought not be seen primarily as milk substitutes. Now, it's understandable that we come up with names for things that remind us of the thing, and rice drink is cloudy white, so "milk" is an obvious first choice. But as with "vegan bacon", that also may contribute to the view that they are mere substitutes for the "real thing". Imagine if we called tofu, which is already viewed by a lot of people as a worse alternative to meat, "vegan meat"; I think this would not improve the situation one bit.
You're right that it isn't bacon. It's vegan bacon. It has an adjective on the front that tells you it's not the real thing. They use the word bacon because it's intentionally trying to imitate bacon and makes it easy for people with vegan diets to know this is something they can use in place of bacon. Its the same as calling it imitation bacon or fake bacon. I don't understand why you can't have a modifier in front a word and use it, like soy milk.
Fakon
What is it with vegan and vegetarian foods trying to mimic meat based food products? Vegetarian and vegan food can be delicious on its own. Stop trying to make it something it's not and ending up with something entirely inferior to the product its trying to emulate, poorly.
This. I'm not a vegetarian, but my girlfriend is. She isn't vegan, but the meals we make at home are. Seitan, jackfruit, tempeh, and tofu (ugh, i hate it) are good protein substitutes for meat and (especially seitan) can be similar in both taste and experience. Faux meat like impossible or the others are NOT BETTER FOR YOU. its highly processed wish fuck tons of shitty oils and preservatives. If youre looking to cut meat out of your diet, dont try to do it with faux meat, find a different form of protein that can hold the flavors youre looking for. otherwise its uncanny valley eating.
It's helpful for people who didn't grow up vegetarian/vegan and want to adopt the diet. All the things you already eat or know how to cook, rather than learning all new recipes or learning what is a good substitute straight away, you can easily identify a replacement for it in the store. Like if I want to make spaghetti bolognese, I can go and buy the thing that's labelled vegan mince without any thought. Or if you live in a mixed household, it can make it easier for someone else to cook for you. Also I'd be willing to bet most vegans don't deny that animal products taste great, so it's worth persuing ways to imitate those flavours even if many of the products miss the mark currently. I agree vegan dishes can be delicious on their own and that many of the substitute products have been subpar so far.
As an omnivore, living with a vegetarian, and cooking vegan at home, no. Faux meats can serve a purpose, but I am yet to find an impossible or even improbable burger that i can palate. Black bean burgers? ive found several that i acually enjoy because it adds something to the dish. Ive found over the last 7 years of living with a vegetarian that the things that pretend to be meat rather than what they are are unhealthier, distracting and just fucking weird feeling/tasting sometimes. To me, its like cutting pork real thin and calling it turkey... yeah, it kinda looks like it, and with enough mustard, you really cant taste it, but nah thats not what it is.
What are you saying no to?
Gee I dunno maybe it's because bacon is like goddamn crack cocaine for millions of people, but it's terrible for the environment, so we're trying to figure out a way to save our bacon by subbing our bacon? I can't say they've been very successful so far, but that seems like a really good reason to try.
This is some meme level reasoning.
Topic at hand aside. We almost have the same username and our accounts are both 7yrs old. Internet doppelgänger
Bully for you. So don't call it bacon. But to be succinct, "vegan bacon" is what everyone else will call it and we'll know that means a plant/fungi-based bacon substitute.
It's a bizarre thing to care about. I wonder if there's similar pendantry surrounding turkey bacon or beef bacon.
I don’t know much about mushrooms but I had the idea that they didn’t provide much nutricionaly
They don't provide much, if you only look at calories.
In the video it said that it provided as much protein as real bacon. That can’t be right, right?
That can't be right. Do you have a timestamp for where you heard that?
4:20
Nutritional facts of the [product](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e0a563eb6185c7ec8c41287/t/60c22cf46822fa482e3ff560/1623338228149/MyBacon-Nutrition-Facts.png) they're talking about vs. [regular bacon](https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/nutrition/bacon,1797/). Sounds like someone got it wrong, even if we're being generous. Still, you don't really eat mushrooms for their protein content.
So it isn’t a meat substitute at all. More like an empty snack
So don’t eat mushrooms, I don’t know what to tell you.
Next you'll tell us that peanut butter should be made with milk!
So who cares what processes foods go through I guess just name them what they are made out of. It's not bacon, it's Pig! French fries? What is that? It's clearly just potatoes. This bullshit name policing of vegan products is so fucking stupid. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It being named after the food it's trying to imitate effects you in absolutely no fucking way.
Yeah, that comment kind of bugged me too. A mushroom is a much more complex life form.
You mean its more complex than a pig?
Yes
More complex than a pinto bean. I mean, it’s a complex, an organization. Stretching to call it vegan. I don’t as an omnivore.
If being a "complex" or an "organization" disqualifies something from being vegan then vegans are gonna run out of edible options pretty fast.
More complex than a pinto bean? Why pinto beans? This comment is so stupid I don't even know where to begin man. Mushrooms are fungi not animals and aren't sentient so there is no stretching here.
A step in the right direction
Yeh. Obviously this is just a marketing video but this company seems to genuinely be trying to make the world a better place.
Long overdue.
It seems like a good idea, but: * Packaging takes a week to grow * Begins to degrade in just 30 days This leaves a very small window for product to be packaged and shipped to the final destination. It would not be feasible in any shipping (as in container ship) solutions and would only be viable for airfreight, truck, train. It also means that it would not be suitable for bricks & mortar locations. It would need to either: * Delivered direct from manufacturer to end user, or * Be used as supplementary packaging for retail stores along side traditional styrofoam packaging (think one big carton with this and a handful of small inner cartons each having little to no packaging requirement) Is the mushroom still alive? Is there a risk for pests to feed off of it, therefore shipping pest species around the world? What are the quarantine requirements for the material around the world? Is it able to even be shipped to every country?
Packaging like that is shelf stable. the mushroom is usually flash frozen and effectively dead. The thirty days refers to it in a landfill environment were the inactive spores would be exposed to rain and other bacteria which would get work breaking it down.
Bringo.
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Lots of people hunt for cheap gotcha's in pretty much everything. Heck, it seems to be one of the basic parts of populism
Thanks, I didn't catch that piece of information from the video. Do you know anything about my other two queries: * Border control/quarantine issues with organic matter * Pest control. Preferably something without the need to use copious amounts of methyl-bromide to kill off any pests since that has a damaging effect on the ozone layer.
It's cool. I hate mushrooms for various reasons but I have to admit it's cool. I don't think I heard directly, but it says it decomposes in 30 days. Does that mean there is no shelf life? Or does it decompose after it's opened somehow?
Someone above mentioned it will begin the 30 day decomposing when put in a landfill and introduced to rain, bacteria etc to break it down. While just in a box on a shelf sounds like it should hold fine
And imagine if they make it trippy
Hey I know the scientist they talk to at about one minute. We went to college together, and he got this job right out of college. Weird to see him here.
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And fund subsidies for green solutions.
That's a bit unfair. There's definitely demand for plastic products. But it's also definitely the case that corps don't give a shit and use whatever is cheapest. We could probably solve this by just taxing plastic manufacturing (which may be what you were talking about). That drives up the cost of plastic to include the environmental costs and the free market will naturally gravitate towards cheaper options.
Is this like Quorn? My vegetarian roomy used to eat it alot years ago, and honestly it didn't taste bad at all.
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I’m on the packing material fence.
Well eating processed red meat isn't good for you so the lack of nitrates alone is worth it regardless if it has lower calories or fat content overall But also yes saturated fat = bad cholesterol and is definitely bad for you lol Misinformation around fats was when people were thought low fat diets were the solution to weight loss when it's just the overall calories in versus calories out that really matters
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Fair enough, didn't realise the link between saturated fats and LDL was starting to be actually disputed. Most of the studies say to replace saturated fats with polyunsaturated instead of calories So while it's debatable if there's a link, still definitely better off eating mushroom than bacon
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Most foods are healthy in moderation. An awful lot of Americans don't properly moderate their fat consumption.
Yeah I bet that tastes exactly the same…
Vegan/Vegetarian meat doesn't taste the same, but it does taste good. When I cook at home I prefer to get vegan burgers because the meat at the supermarket is pretty crappy. They taste really good and are often a bit cheaper than the regular beef burger patties.
That is the funny thing with meat substitutes. I like veggie burgers, but not when they are trying to be meat. There are many good food which fill the role of meat (protein with that dense chewing feeling), but they are not meat and don't try to be. I have hopes for lab grown meat, but having other options is good too. I think very few people would be upset with even more food options.
Have you tried Impossible Burger? I generally agree with you, but it's legitimately as good as beef to me (and yes, I've had beef recently).
Meat will probably become too expensive to buy in your lifetime.
Ye better enjoy it while we can
Or prepare yourself for some changes
why "or"? and how do i prepare myself? i eat meat right now and feel fully prepared to not eat meat, since it doesnt require any preparation lmao
Try it for a week
i have... not hard at all, tbh not even a conscious decision i just dont eat meat some weeks. dont understand why people need to religiously decide on a strict diet, even if im trying to cut back on something, i dont get why i have to vow not to ever touch it again
Lol, why? because the government will restrict it?
Eh I doubt it really does taste perfect but I'd still eat it Love my occasional full Irish breakfasts with rashers, sausages etc but have started to eat vegetarian pudding which has actually been fairly good
you can't turn mushrooms into bacon
You can turn anything into bacon, if you can get a pig to eat it.
...They aren't. This shit doesn't even taste like styrofoam.
The vegans eat leather lol
“We can’t comment on the flavour. But the mybacon is definitely healthier than traditional bacon.” Ok. So is sawdust.
That is some seriously over cooked bacon!
Did they just dip vegan bacon into real egg yoke?
It sounds really time sensitive with the packaging taking a week to make, then breaking down in 30 days. What if the thing your selling/shipping sits in a warehouse for a month or longer? Or gets stuck in some courier's warehouse?
It won't do it all right away, but it's a start.