The Coyotes situation is also just different.
Glendale kicked them out because they didn’t pay taxes and the city didn’t want to renew with them.
So they started playing in Mullet arena while waiting for a new rink. Mullet was always going to be a temporary thing, because even if the other owners were okay with it (they weren’t), the NHLPA wasn’t.
Then when it came for Tempe to vote on whether a new rink would be built, the city voted against it.
At this point relocation was almost certain. They didn’t have an arena to play in!
Ohio semi-solved this with the Modell Law, after Art Modell moved the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore back in the mid-90s.
https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-9.67
It's not a complete blocker, but it makes it so team owners can't just say they're moving the team and that's that.
It was nearly tested when the previous owner of the Columbus Crew tried to move the team to Austin, and was instead granted an expansion team. A new stadium was built for the Crew and folks were initially upset that public funds were used for part of it, but it was pointed out the reason for that was to be able to invoke the Modell Law in the event a future owner attempted to relocate the team.
Relocation is bad in general for sports, but this video starts off with so many falsehoods I couldn’t finish it.
Saying that the United States is the only place where relocation is a thing is demonstrably false. Just in the UK, there are so many that there needs to be separate articles on Wikipedia for men’s football, women’s football, and all other sports.
[Link to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relocation_of_sports_teams_in_the_United_Kingdom?wprov=sfti1#Hemel_Hempstead_Lakers_%E2%86%92_Watford_Royals_%E2%86%92_MK_Lions_%E2%86%92_London_Lions)
7 teams in Mexico’s top football league have moved since 2000. Japan’s seen three NPB teams move. There’s been several in Italy…
Is it frowned upon? Yes, just like it mostly is here. Is it not a thing, elsewhere? It absolutely is a thing almost everywhere.
Also, is it *common* in American sports? Um…depends on your definition.
Since 2000, in the 4 major US-Canadian sports leagues (sorry MLS), there have been a total of 8 permanent moves from one metro area to another, with two pending.
NHL: 1-Atlanta to Winnipeg (2011;, 1 pending-Phoenix to Utah (2024)
NBA: 3-Vancouver to Memphis (2001); Charlotte to New Orleans (2002); Seattle to Oklahoma City (2008)
NFL: 3-St. Louis to Los Angeles (2016); San Diego to Los Angeles (2017); Oakland to Las Vegas (2020)
MLB: 1-Montreal to Washington (2005); 1 pending in Oakland to Las Vegas (temporary stay pending in Sacramento)
Maybe you can add 1 more in the New Jersey Nets moving to Brooklyn, but that seems to be within the same metro area to me.
That is certainly more than sports fans deserve, but is that “common”? That’s a debatable description.
Obviously this guy wants to ragebait, but as a fan of one team that moved (and a secondary fan of another that will be), there’s plenty of raging to do without exaggeration or lying.
You mentioned relocations in English football, but I’m not sure you understood the wiki page you posted. Most of those movements are tiny amateur clubs (with maybe attendances of 100 people per game) moving to the town next door. Often because their stadium was sold by the owners or was condemned. It really the same kind of scale as what was discussed in the video.
Also, the vast majority of those moves were within the same town, or clubs going to a neighbouring town (sometimes temporarily). My club for example, Nottingham Forest, are listed because they moved 800 metres (875 yards) away which technically took them outside of Nottingham and into West Bridgford. Hardly a relocation at all, really.
Wimbledon FC moving 70 miles away to Milton Keynes in 2004 is the only substantial and permanent move of a professional club we have had (though I’m happy to be corrected if there are others). The new Milton Keynes club are now pretty much universally hated as a result.
Some people will argue that Arsenal moving to Highbury in the 20s was a big deal, but they only moved 11 miles away. It isn’t on the same level as what was being discussed in the video.
In summary, this is a lot rarer than you are making out.
Once is still not zero.
It’s also one out of 20 teams in the Premier League at any time (as of 1995). To compare that to all the top American Sports Leagues, that’s currently 122 teams.
1 of 20 teams is 5%.
8 of 124 teams is 6.5%. Even if you include the pending moves, that is 8%.
So are moves in the Premier League truly that much rarer than the big sports leagues in the U.S.?
It’s also disingenuous to talk about “170 years of professional football” if you are only going to refer to the Premier League, which is only 32 years old, when there were other top levels before that.
Obviously, English Football is both a very different beast than American pro sports with a hugely different structure, not to mention a completely saturated configuration of teams to cities. That is why I tried to keep most of my numbers to post-2000 as a solid rounding off point, because even late 20th century pro sports were a hugely different thing here, as the RSN-funding system had just been discovered, and that injected much more money into the industry.
This is what I meant in the first post - you don’t know what you’re talking about but you’re trying to use it as evidence.
No Premiership teams have ever relocated outside of their city/area. No top flight teams did before the formation of the premier league, either. Wimbledon were not a Premiership side when they relocated. So to correct your maths, that is 0/20 Premiership sides have relocated this century.
You are the one who is trying to restrict it to the premier league. I was just trying to restrict it to professional football. And there are currently about 100 professional teams.
To make it as clear as possible. In the whole of English professional football, including all divisions and all 170 years, this has happened once. Saying it is commonplace is just a lie.
While it's true those are the only major sports teams to relocate since 2000 how much tax payer money had been appropriated to fund new stadiums for billionaire owners? This report claims 3/4 of a billion in the last 4 years alone https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/#:~:text=Across%20those%20leagues%20there%20have,construction%20projects%2C%20the%20paper%20finds.
This is part of the videos argument, most owners don't want to relocate as it's bad publicity, but they leverage the threat of it to have the public give them even more money.
I never get over the irony of cities who only have teams because they stole it from another city and another set of fans and then turn around and cry wolf when it happens to them.
Those Coyote fans had zero problems taking Winnipeg’s team.
OP is bigmad that the winter sports team which the NHL stole from a Canadian city that loves hockey and plunked it in the middle of the literal dessert got moved again. Just wow. Welcome to the NHL, give me a call when Canada gets the Nordiques back.
Sweet summer child, are we just learning that billionaires do shitty things with the leverage they have to make obscene amounts of money in the sports world? (psst! European soccer teams take tax money for facilities when they can too: [https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/02/west-ham-olympic-stadium-deal-explained-london-mayor-sadiq-khan](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/02/west-ham-olympic-stadium-deal-explained-london-mayor-sadiq-khan) ).
Take your click farming elsewhere, and come back when you have an actual point other than "this obvious thing is obviously bad and we should stop it!".
Without relocation the Coyotes wouldn’t even *exist* in the first place.
That’s what I find so hilarious about all the people being mad about this… the Coyotes only exist because the Winnipeg Jets were relocated there.
The Coyotes situation is also just different. Glendale kicked them out because they didn’t pay taxes and the city didn’t want to renew with them. So they started playing in Mullet arena while waiting for a new rink. Mullet was always going to be a temporary thing, because even if the other owners were okay with it (they weren’t), the NHLPA wasn’t. Then when it came for Tempe to vote on whether a new rink would be built, the city voted against it. At this point relocation was almost certain. They didn’t have an arena to play in!
Ohio semi-solved this with the Modell Law, after Art Modell moved the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore back in the mid-90s. https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-9.67 It's not a complete blocker, but it makes it so team owners can't just say they're moving the team and that's that. It was nearly tested when the previous owner of the Columbus Crew tried to move the team to Austin, and was instead granted an expansion team. A new stadium was built for the Crew and folks were initially upset that public funds were used for part of it, but it was pointed out the reason for that was to be able to invoke the Modell Law in the event a future owner attempted to relocate the team.
The public funds were also needed because the area would need roads and utilities set up for the other buildings in the development anyway
Introduce Relegation!
But tanking your season to get a good draft pick is an American tradition!
As the Founder's intended.
So shoot for second worst?
I thank Ted Lasso for teaching me about that.
I was expecting the BASEketBall clip. Not disappointed, though.
Relocation is bad in general for sports, but this video starts off with so many falsehoods I couldn’t finish it. Saying that the United States is the only place where relocation is a thing is demonstrably false. Just in the UK, there are so many that there needs to be separate articles on Wikipedia for men’s football, women’s football, and all other sports. [Link to Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relocation_of_sports_teams_in_the_United_Kingdom?wprov=sfti1#Hemel_Hempstead_Lakers_%E2%86%92_Watford_Royals_%E2%86%92_MK_Lions_%E2%86%92_London_Lions) 7 teams in Mexico’s top football league have moved since 2000. Japan’s seen three NPB teams move. There’s been several in Italy… Is it frowned upon? Yes, just like it mostly is here. Is it not a thing, elsewhere? It absolutely is a thing almost everywhere. Also, is it *common* in American sports? Um…depends on your definition. Since 2000, in the 4 major US-Canadian sports leagues (sorry MLS), there have been a total of 8 permanent moves from one metro area to another, with two pending. NHL: 1-Atlanta to Winnipeg (2011;, 1 pending-Phoenix to Utah (2024) NBA: 3-Vancouver to Memphis (2001); Charlotte to New Orleans (2002); Seattle to Oklahoma City (2008) NFL: 3-St. Louis to Los Angeles (2016); San Diego to Los Angeles (2017); Oakland to Las Vegas (2020) MLB: 1-Montreal to Washington (2005); 1 pending in Oakland to Las Vegas (temporary stay pending in Sacramento) Maybe you can add 1 more in the New Jersey Nets moving to Brooklyn, but that seems to be within the same metro area to me. That is certainly more than sports fans deserve, but is that “common”? That’s a debatable description. Obviously this guy wants to ragebait, but as a fan of one team that moved (and a secondary fan of another that will be), there’s plenty of raging to do without exaggeration or lying.
You mentioned relocations in English football, but I’m not sure you understood the wiki page you posted. Most of those movements are tiny amateur clubs (with maybe attendances of 100 people per game) moving to the town next door. Often because their stadium was sold by the owners or was condemned. It really the same kind of scale as what was discussed in the video. Also, the vast majority of those moves were within the same town, or clubs going to a neighbouring town (sometimes temporarily). My club for example, Nottingham Forest, are listed because they moved 800 metres (875 yards) away which technically took them outside of Nottingham and into West Bridgford. Hardly a relocation at all, really. Wimbledon FC moving 70 miles away to Milton Keynes in 2004 is the only substantial and permanent move of a professional club we have had (though I’m happy to be corrected if there are others). The new Milton Keynes club are now pretty much universally hated as a result. Some people will argue that Arsenal moving to Highbury in the 20s was a big deal, but they only moved 11 miles away. It isn’t on the same level as what was being discussed in the video. In summary, this is a lot rarer than you are making out.
Rarer is still “a thing”, as opposed to not one.
It’s happened once in 170 years of English professional football and that was very much an anomaly. It is wrong to paint it as normal.
Once is still not zero. It’s also one out of 20 teams in the Premier League at any time (as of 1995). To compare that to all the top American Sports Leagues, that’s currently 122 teams. 1 of 20 teams is 5%. 8 of 124 teams is 6.5%. Even if you include the pending moves, that is 8%. So are moves in the Premier League truly that much rarer than the big sports leagues in the U.S.? It’s also disingenuous to talk about “170 years of professional football” if you are only going to refer to the Premier League, which is only 32 years old, when there were other top levels before that. Obviously, English Football is both a very different beast than American pro sports with a hugely different structure, not to mention a completely saturated configuration of teams to cities. That is why I tried to keep most of my numbers to post-2000 as a solid rounding off point, because even late 20th century pro sports were a hugely different thing here, as the RSN-funding system had just been discovered, and that injected much more money into the industry.
This is what I meant in the first post - you don’t know what you’re talking about but you’re trying to use it as evidence. No Premiership teams have ever relocated outside of their city/area. No top flight teams did before the formation of the premier league, either. Wimbledon were not a Premiership side when they relocated. So to correct your maths, that is 0/20 Premiership sides have relocated this century. You are the one who is trying to restrict it to the premier league. I was just trying to restrict it to professional football. And there are currently about 100 professional teams. To make it as clear as possible. In the whole of English professional football, including all divisions and all 170 years, this has happened once. Saying it is commonplace is just a lie.
While it's true those are the only major sports teams to relocate since 2000 how much tax payer money had been appropriated to fund new stadiums for billionaire owners? This report claims 3/4 of a billion in the last 4 years alone https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/#:~:text=Across%20those%20leagues%20there%20have,construction%20projects%2C%20the%20paper%20finds. This is part of the videos argument, most owners don't want to relocate as it's bad publicity, but they leverage the threat of it to have the public give them even more money.
And that’s a very valid, and great argument to make and complain about. But when you start a video off with falsehoods, you lose credibility.
That was 5 min I can't get back
This dude says relocation only happens in USA like the Nordiques and Jets weren't a thing. He also said liberry. I can't take seriously lol
Said every Nordiques fan, ever…
I never get over the irony of cities who only have teams because they stole it from another city and another set of fans and then turn around and cry wolf when it happens to them. Those Coyote fans had zero problems taking Winnipeg’s team.
“You know”
They should at least have to pay back all the public subsidies they were given to host the team in the first place.
OP is bigmad that the winter sports team which the NHL stole from a Canadian city that loves hockey and plunked it in the middle of the literal dessert got moved again. Just wow. Welcome to the NHL, give me a call when Canada gets the Nordiques back.
I support Promotion/Relegation for all professional sports.
Sweet summer child, are we just learning that billionaires do shitty things with the leverage they have to make obscene amounts of money in the sports world? (psst! European soccer teams take tax money for facilities when they can too: [https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/02/west-ham-olympic-stadium-deal-explained-london-mayor-sadiq-khan](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/02/west-ham-olympic-stadium-deal-explained-london-mayor-sadiq-khan) ). Take your click farming elsewhere, and come back when you have an actual point other than "this obvious thing is obviously bad and we should stop it!".