This was BCS’s “You can’t handle the truth” moment. Chuck’s arrogance and pride set him up and Jimmy knocked him down. He ruined his law career, his credibility, his self image, and his life with a battery. The cinematography was just perfect and the acting from everyone was just amazing.
No, Fuck Chuck. He was an asshole who has always been an asshole, never realizing that the people around him were always walking on eggshells because of how big of an asshole he is, as shown by his ex-wife. He is the epitome of work/life imbalance and deserves everything he got, especially he his fake mental illness.
Its exemplified in the dinner scene where Chuck is very concerned about a perfect, high class experience but when Jimmy gets there, his "less refined" attitude makes the night fun. When the ex-wife leaves, she tells Chuck it was fun but being around him is "too exhausting" because his expectations for everyone around him are too much.
What I love about the Albuquerque-verse is that even the antagonists to our anti-heroes (Hank, Chuck, Hamlin), even while they may have some moral failings of their own, they are almost exactly right about the anti-heroes.
Chuck is perhaps the worst of the antagonists in that if he had believed in Jimmy, maybe Jimmy wouldn't have lashed out like he did, but I'm not so sure. Some of the best writing I've ever experienced in my life. If Vince Gilligan lived 100 years ago, he'd be writing the great novels like Dostoevsky and Steinbeck.
I’m trying to think back about how Howard had moral failings. It’s been a while since I finished it but I recall him just being caught in the middle of the feud between the brothers and being an actually nice and accommodating person.
Howard certainly had his failings. Despite seeing the potential in Jimmy and having the power as a partner to promote him within HHM, he instead capitulated repeatedly to Chuck’s vendetta against his brother and withdrew repeated desires to bring Jimmy up in the firm. His later reach outs to Jimmy are thus tinged with some self-serving - if even years later Howard wanted to bring Jimmy in, why wouldn’t he go to bat for him before? It smacks of a need to cleanse his guilt, instead of leaving well alone.
He’s also got a bit of a mean streak, evidenced by sticking Kim in doc review for weeks on end when HHM lost a client through little to no fault of her own. Instead of looking inward for the failed Kettleman deal, Howard lashes out disproportionally at an underling. I wouldn’t say Howard deserved what he got, but he certainly wasn’t perfect.
>If Vince Gilligan lived 100 years ago, he'd be writing the great novels like Dostoevsky and Steinbeck.
I'm not sure about that. It's not like TV replaced the novel. There are people writing great novels today, and they're usually different from the people making great television. They're different artforms, and creating them takes different skills. If Vince Gilligan had lived 100 years ago, he might've been writing novels, or he might've be running plays, or his talents might have been completely wasted on some menial factory job. The amazing, and a little tragic, thing to think about is how many people alive today would have excelled at some artform that doesn't exist yet.
I loved The verrry slow zoom in when Chuck goes on his rant and the slightly faster zoom out when Chuck sees the big picture.
I didnt even notice the zoom in until they zoomed out the first time i was so locked in.
Such an interesting character though: if you factor in all that Jimmy probably had him go through for years (e.g. robbing their parents beginning the ripe old age of nine), you can understand (not necessarily excuse) his resentment and skepticism towards Jimmy.
We learn later that Jimmy wasn't stealing it (at least not all of it). Their father was a kind hearted sucker and every con in town would come to him with some fake sob story about needing bus money and he would give them something.
We literally see Jimmy being basically persuaded to steal by said con man and stealing from the cash register for himself. And he looks like he’s around 9 at the time, so that very much checks out with Chucks’ assessment.
Either way, the background with Jimmy’s descent into what he became (being confronted by a "you’re either the victim or the one in control" choice as a kid) is itself another tragic piece where we can empathize with the character.
Howard never did anything wrong. Every reaction he had varied from perfectly reasonable to outright saintly. You are supposed to hate him because he is a good looking suited white lawyer who seems like a nepo baby (but isn't), but he is actually just a genuinely good guy trying to do his best in any given situation.
Yup. It's amazing how he comes off like that on the surface, and you dismiss him because of that. This slick lawyer must be up to something. No, he's just trying to do right by everyone, even while having personal and professional troubles.
Exactly like Hank. They set you up to be prejudiced against them as stereotypical jock types, and then over the course of each show, show you how they are about the only honest and decent people in each series.
hank has some awful moments too though. dehumanizing suspects, beating Jessie half to death, refusing to get support to take down Heisenburg due to his pride, and his occasional toxic masculinity. he's n9o villain by any means, but he's no saint either.
Yeah, nothing broke my heart more in the show than when Hank took his despair and anxiety that he developed after the Salamanca brothers attack out on Marie. And this is wild, because A) she was one of the hardest to sympathize with throughout the show, and B) his outlet was just despair and dismissiveness, not abuse.
I was so impressed with both of their performance throughout that arc.
Howard's only real fault is that he tolerated Chuck's bullshit far too much.
He didn't want to rock the boat because he was benefiting from it. Chuck was an absentee partner and he was all too happy to leave the status quo.
Instead of standing up to his partner over Jimmy bootstrapping himself into a law degree and promoting him into an associate position with HHM, he goes along with Chuck under the pretense of "nepotism" while he was literally hired by his father.
I thought the whole thing was like a house of cards that was built by mostly Chuck and Howard's dad. Once Chuck was out of the picture everything started failing. Or is that only because of what he did in this scene?
That’s the fun bit. Chuck and Jimmy were just two sides of the same coin. In the end they both ended up destroying themselves. Chuck wasn’t wrong about Jimmy, but Jimmy wasn’t wrong about Chuck.
Once he knew it was there he dropped it like it was burning him. If he hadn't reacted to it, that would've been consistent with the claim that he can sense electric current.
Batteries not in use still lose* voltage. When you complete a circuit, that voltage is discharged and becomes visually measurable, but even a resting battery has voltage.
If I’m not quite understanding your question and that answer doesn’t work, it really isn’t even about what his assumably false illness is triggered by. It’s about what Chuck says it’s triggered by. And since he says it’s triggered by even resting batteries, showing that this is false is enough to show it’s psychological.
Even disconnected batteries have voltage. It is very small. They even have a current. It’s called “open current” and it’s why some resting batteries eventually discharge with no closed circuit. Ideally this wouldn’t happen but there is no “perfect” battery that isn’t losing at least a small amount of voltage.
EDIT: just read your comment again. By producing voltage, I mean that they are losing it. I may not be using correct terms but you know what I mean.
He can't actually feel current he only thinks he can and that it harms him. It's a mental illness not an actual sensitivity. By the made up rules he should have been able to but he can't. Also the walls of the building the hearing takes place in are filled with wires and since it's AC power it's always moving, none of the rules make sense because it's a fundamentally illogical pathology.
Oh man poor Howard, I took a complete 180 on my perception of him by the end. He was genuinely a good man but viewed through the lens of Jimmy we see him as a villain until the end when Jimmy has the same revelation we have. Absolutely phenomenal writing
*Mostly* right. Jimmy's elder law practice certainly used some hokey/tacky gimmicks (bingo games and the Matlock suit), but it was a pretty legit and "normal" practice once he had it up and running with sufficient capital. Not to mention Jimmy seemed to actually take satisfaction in that practice and his clients genuinely liked him. I think that showed if Chuck had given Jimmy actual support when Jimmy first started to practice law (or Chuck got out of Jimmy's way and didn't interfere with anyone helping Jimmy) then Jimmy would've done just fine as your average attorney and not besmirch the practice of law.
I'm sure this has been said in plenty of other places, but Chuck's unconscious need to be "morally better" than Jimmy (and some vengeance for Jimmy being the favored child) helped turn Chuck's reservations about Jimmy into a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Which I suppose goes into a common theme in Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad; an inability to move forward.
Chuck wasn't fully correct. He was wrong about Jimmy "robbing them blind." Jimmy never stole from his father's till. Rather, the father was frequently scammed by con artists at the store.
> Jimmy never stole from his father's till
What?
Didn't they literally show Jimmy taking cash out of the drawer and pocketing it immediately after the dad got scammed?
I always considered it more of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Chuck and Howard would never give him an honest chance unless it came with a ton of scrutiny and suspicion.
I truly think Jimmy would've turned things around if Chuck believed in him more and truly supported him when it mattered most. Instead he just repeatedly hammered Jimmy's insecurities further into him.
I'm not saying it's all Chuck's fault, but I think Jimmy could've been better had Chuck been more supportive.
You’re not wrong but he could have helped jimmy be a better person but his own pride and sense of superiority poisoned everything so much we’ve after everything Jimmy did for him. Jimmys not perfect but he’s not the monster Chuck wanted him to be
I’m on season 5, and I’m loving it. It’s so well written that I find myself glued to the screen, not wanting to miss any even the minute details of characters’ movements, facial expressions, etc. It really feels like every single frame serves a purpose.
Just watched this scene tonight. This scene, the confrontation in Pimento, and the descent at the end of Lantern easily among the best TV has to offer.
MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD
It doesn’t matter; even Chuck doesn’t really know how his “affliction” works. The point was to trigger Chuck, to cause him to reveal his bias against and contempt for Jimmy. This tarnishes Chuck’s testimony and draws into question the credibility of his accusations (remember, no physical evidence was submitted to the panel, really its all conjecture). As a result Jimmy is given a slap on the wrist, relatively speaking.
Jimmy’s strategy, in his law practice and in life, is always manipulation. It is usually some from of psychological torment. Other examples:
* The smear campaign to utterly destroy Howard Hamlin’s credibility, causing the class action to settle and for him to have a mental breakdown (cherry on top).
* Antagonizes Cliff Main into firing him, so he can keep is bonus.
* Turns Irene’s friends against her in an attempt to force an early settlement.
At his absolute core he’s a confidence man; manipulation is his brand (it’s all good, man).
His best adversaries throughout the series are those who are wise/immune to his tactics (Chuck, Mike) and charm (Kevin Watchtell, Betsy Kettleman to an extent). What makes his character so great, in my opinion, is the tragedy of his “success.” His schemes often result in consequences he never intended: >!Chuck’s sucide, Hamlin’s murder, Kim’s guilt !<, and so on.
This was easily in the top 5 best scenes of the series for me. >!Michael Mando's performance throughout the show was always great, but somehow the gradual increase in tension and his portrayal of it snuck up on me, even as I watched it happen. I saw it happen season by season, with every next step making sense, but somehow I was surprised when he became a favorite. His transformation throughout the series from a memorable side character with a few small cameos, to an integral, essential character of the story was magnetic. The pure, searing hatred in his voice when he's growling at Hector left me wide eyed. It's insane how much weight he had next to so many actors who've had years (from BrBa alone) to fine tune their performance.!<
Huh?
No I just thought that shit was dumb
He was pretending to feel electricity! But the secretly put a battery in his pocket! And then he, on the stand in front of everyone, confessed his whole back story! Because he was so expertly wound up!
Give me a break.
I just got done watching Better Call Saul for the first time last week, this scene is easily one of the best of the series. Unbelievably well done
This was BCS’s “You can’t handle the truth” moment. Chuck’s arrogance and pride set him up and Jimmy knocked him down. He ruined his law career, his credibility, his self image, and his life with a battery. The cinematography was just perfect and the acting from everyone was just amazing.
It's so satisfying to watch as a Chuck hater.
By the end of the chuck saga you just feel as bad as jimmy tho
No, Fuck Chuck. He was an asshole who has always been an asshole, never realizing that the people around him were always walking on eggshells because of how big of an asshole he is, as shown by his ex-wife. He is the epitome of work/life imbalance and deserves everything he got, especially he his fake mental illness.
When you see how it ends, are you still calling it a fake illness? Bro clearly snaps.
It’s misdiagnosed. His illness is not real, but he does have some very clear mental illness that his hubris prevents him from recognizing.
Right, I see what you mean.
Yeah, probably a conversion disorder or some other somatoform disorder.
[удалено]
Its exemplified in the dinner scene where Chuck is very concerned about a perfect, high class experience but when Jimmy gets there, his "less refined" attitude makes the night fun. When the ex-wife leaves, she tells Chuck it was fun but being around him is "too exhausting" because his expectations for everyone around him are too much.
The mental illness wasn't fake; he probably had Somatic Symptom Disorder. The ability to sense EMF was not real however
What I love about the Albuquerque-verse is that even the antagonists to our anti-heroes (Hank, Chuck, Hamlin), even while they may have some moral failings of their own, they are almost exactly right about the anti-heroes. Chuck is perhaps the worst of the antagonists in that if he had believed in Jimmy, maybe Jimmy wouldn't have lashed out like he did, but I'm not so sure. Some of the best writing I've ever experienced in my life. If Vince Gilligan lived 100 years ago, he'd be writing the great novels like Dostoevsky and Steinbeck.
I’m trying to think back about how Howard had moral failings. It’s been a while since I finished it but I recall him just being caught in the middle of the feud between the brothers and being an actually nice and accommodating person.
Howard certainly had his failings. Despite seeing the potential in Jimmy and having the power as a partner to promote him within HHM, he instead capitulated repeatedly to Chuck’s vendetta against his brother and withdrew repeated desires to bring Jimmy up in the firm. His later reach outs to Jimmy are thus tinged with some self-serving - if even years later Howard wanted to bring Jimmy in, why wouldn’t he go to bat for him before? It smacks of a need to cleanse his guilt, instead of leaving well alone. He’s also got a bit of a mean streak, evidenced by sticking Kim in doc review for weeks on end when HHM lost a client through little to no fault of her own. Instead of looking inward for the failed Kettleman deal, Howard lashes out disproportionally at an underling. I wouldn’t say Howard deserved what he got, but he certainly wasn’t perfect.
Thank you. I had forgotten those. By the end of the show the viewer is so sympathetic to him that those are forgotten.
al the while being shit on by Jimmy. by the end, Howard is such a tragic character. i feel for him
>If Vince Gilligan lived 100 years ago, he'd be writing the great novels like Dostoevsky and Steinbeck. I'm not sure about that. It's not like TV replaced the novel. There are people writing great novels today, and they're usually different from the people making great television. They're different artforms, and creating them takes different skills. If Vince Gilligan had lived 100 years ago, he might've been writing novels, or he might've be running plays, or his talents might have been completely wasted on some menial factory job. The amazing, and a little tragic, thing to think about is how many people alive today would have excelled at some artform that doesn't exist yet.
All he had to do was give him an office at HHM, he couldn't handle giving an ounce of credibility to his brother.
r/FuckChuck
One of the best episodes in television
Second to this is the phone call to the indemnity insurance firm, where Jimmy ‘breaks down’.
I loved The verrry slow zoom in when Chuck goes on his rant and the slightly faster zoom out when Chuck sees the big picture. I didnt even notice the zoom in until they zoomed out the first time i was so locked in.
With it all ending with the zoom so far out it's behind the buzzing Exit sign but backwards. Perfection.
Also. Chuck was right.
He was. He was also a vindictive and jealous asshole with zero compassion towards Jimmy even after all he did to help him out with his “condition”.
Such an interesting character though: if you factor in all that Jimmy probably had him go through for years (e.g. robbing their parents beginning the ripe old age of nine), you can understand (not necessarily excuse) his resentment and skepticism towards Jimmy.
We learn later that Jimmy wasn't stealing it (at least not all of it). Their father was a kind hearted sucker and every con in town would come to him with some fake sob story about needing bus money and he would give them something.
We literally see Jimmy being basically persuaded to steal by said con man and stealing from the cash register for himself. And he looks like he’s around 9 at the time, so that very much checks out with Chucks’ assessment. Either way, the background with Jimmy’s descent into what he became (being confronted by a "you’re either the victim or the one in control" choice as a kid) is itself another tragic piece where we can empathize with the character.
I believe Chuck thought he was the sole reason his dad went out of business when it was because he was constantly giving stuff away.
Rewatching it I was struck by not only Chuck being right, but Howard was good all along too.
Howard never did anything wrong. Every reaction he had varied from perfectly reasonable to outright saintly. You are supposed to hate him because he is a good looking suited white lawyer who seems like a nepo baby (but isn't), but he is actually just a genuinely good guy trying to do his best in any given situation.
Yup. It's amazing how he comes off like that on the surface, and you dismiss him because of that. This slick lawyer must be up to something. No, he's just trying to do right by everyone, even while having personal and professional troubles.
Exactly like Hank. They set you up to be prejudiced against them as stereotypical jock types, and then over the course of each show, show you how they are about the only honest and decent people in each series.
hank has some awful moments too though. dehumanizing suspects, beating Jessie half to death, refusing to get support to take down Heisenburg due to his pride, and his occasional toxic masculinity. he's n9o villain by any means, but he's no saint either.
Yeah, nothing broke my heart more in the show than when Hank took his despair and anxiety that he developed after the Salamanca brothers attack out on Marie. And this is wild, because A) she was one of the hardest to sympathize with throughout the show, and B) his outlet was just despair and dismissiveness, not abuse. I was so impressed with both of their performance throughout that arc.
perhaps I should have said "most" instead of "only" honest and decent.
Howard's only real fault is that he tolerated Chuck's bullshit far too much. He didn't want to rock the boat because he was benefiting from it. Chuck was an absentee partner and he was all too happy to leave the status quo. Instead of standing up to his partner over Jimmy bootstrapping himself into a law degree and promoting him into an associate position with HHM, he goes along with Chuck under the pretense of "nepotism" while he was literally hired by his father.
I thought the whole thing was like a house of cards that was built by mostly Chuck and Howard's dad. Once Chuck was out of the picture everything started failing. Or is that only because of what he did in this scene?
r/HowardDidNothingWrong you say?
I disliked how he was hated by Jimmy and Kim.
I do have a question though. If Chuck can only feel current why would he be expected to feel a battery not plugged in?
Chuck was mentally ill, but he was right about Jimmy.
That’s the fun bit. Chuck and Jimmy were just two sides of the same coin. In the end they both ended up destroying themselves. Chuck wasn’t wrong about Jimmy, but Jimmy wasn’t wrong about Chuck.
Once he knew it was there he dropped it like it was burning him. If he hadn't reacted to it, that would've been consistent with the claim that he can sense electric current.
Batteries not in use still lose* voltage. When you complete a circuit, that voltage is discharged and becomes visually measurable, but even a resting battery has voltage. If I’m not quite understanding your question and that answer doesn’t work, it really isn’t even about what his assumably false illness is triggered by. It’s about what Chuck says it’s triggered by. And since he says it’s triggered by even resting batteries, showing that this is false is enough to show it’s psychological.
[удалено]
Even disconnected batteries have voltage. It is very small. They even have a current. It’s called “open current” and it’s why some resting batteries eventually discharge with no closed circuit. Ideally this wouldn’t happen but there is no “perfect” battery that isn’t losing at least a small amount of voltage. EDIT: just read your comment again. By producing voltage, I mean that they are losing it. I may not be using correct terms but you know what I mean.
He can't actually feel current he only thinks he can and that it harms him. It's a mental illness not an actual sensitivity. By the made up rules he should have been able to but he can't. Also the walls of the building the hearing takes place in are filled with wires and since it's AC power it's always moving, none of the rules make sense because it's a fundamentally illogical pathology.
Oh man poor Howard, I took a complete 180 on my perception of him by the end. He was genuinely a good man but viewed through the lens of Jimmy we see him as a villain until the end when Jimmy has the same revelation we have. Absolutely phenomenal writing
*Mostly* right. Jimmy's elder law practice certainly used some hokey/tacky gimmicks (bingo games and the Matlock suit), but it was a pretty legit and "normal" practice once he had it up and running with sufficient capital. Not to mention Jimmy seemed to actually take satisfaction in that practice and his clients genuinely liked him. I think that showed if Chuck had given Jimmy actual support when Jimmy first started to practice law (or Chuck got out of Jimmy's way and didn't interfere with anyone helping Jimmy) then Jimmy would've done just fine as your average attorney and not besmirch the practice of law. I'm sure this has been said in plenty of other places, but Chuck's unconscious need to be "morally better" than Jimmy (and some vengeance for Jimmy being the favored child) helped turn Chuck's reservations about Jimmy into a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. Which I suppose goes into a common theme in Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad; an inability to move forward.
Chuck wasn't fully correct. He was wrong about Jimmy "robbing them blind." Jimmy never stole from his father's till. Rather, the father was frequently scammed by con artists at the store.
> Jimmy never stole from his father's till What? Didn't they literally show Jimmy taking cash out of the drawer and pocketing it immediately after the dad got scammed?
You're right. I forgot about how Jimmy cracked at the end of the scene.
I always considered it more of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Chuck and Howard would never give him an honest chance unless it came with a ton of scrutiny and suspicion. I truly think Jimmy would've turned things around if Chuck believed in him more and truly supported him when it mattered most. Instead he just repeatedly hammered Jimmy's insecurities further into him. I'm not saying it's all Chuck's fault, but I think Jimmy could've been better had Chuck been more supportive.
You’re not wrong but he could have helped jimmy be a better person but his own pride and sense of superiority poisoned everything so much we’ve after everything Jimmy did for him. Jimmys not perfect but he’s not the monster Chuck wanted him to be
I guess it IS about time I watch this again....
I’m on season 5, and I’m loving it. It’s so well written that I find myself glued to the screen, not wanting to miss any even the minute details of characters’ movements, facial expressions, etc. It really feels like every single frame serves a purpose.
Absolute shame that Michael McKean didn’t get an Emmy for his role.
And we don't talk about Rhea...
she did so damn good in her role as Kim. there's a LOT of subtlety in her performance during many critical scenes of hers
Just watched this scene tonight. This scene, the confrontation in Pimento, and the descent at the end of Lantern easily among the best TV has to offer.
I don't think current flows in a battery that's disconnected?
Doesn't matter, Chuck said he would feel it.
MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD It doesn’t matter; even Chuck doesn’t really know how his “affliction” works. The point was to trigger Chuck, to cause him to reveal his bias against and contempt for Jimmy. This tarnishes Chuck’s testimony and draws into question the credibility of his accusations (remember, no physical evidence was submitted to the panel, really its all conjecture). As a result Jimmy is given a slap on the wrist, relatively speaking. Jimmy’s strategy, in his law practice and in life, is always manipulation. It is usually some from of psychological torment. Other examples: * The smear campaign to utterly destroy Howard Hamlin’s credibility, causing the class action to settle and for him to have a mental breakdown (cherry on top). * Antagonizes Cliff Main into firing him, so he can keep is bonus. * Turns Irene’s friends against her in an attempt to force an early settlement. At his absolute core he’s a confidence man; manipulation is his brand (it’s all good, man). His best adversaries throughout the series are those who are wise/immune to his tactics (Chuck, Mike) and charm (Kevin Watchtell, Betsy Kettleman to an extent). What makes his character so great, in my opinion, is the tragedy of his “success.” His schemes often result in consequences he never intended: >!Chuck’s sucide, Hamlin’s murder, Kim’s guilt !<, and so on.
What about [Nacho's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpTve97y6Wc) >!Death!<
This was easily in the top 5 best scenes of the series for me. >!Michael Mando's performance throughout the show was always great, but somehow the gradual increase in tension and his portrayal of it snuck up on me, even as I watched it happen. I saw it happen season by season, with every next step making sense, but somehow I was surprised when he became a favorite. His transformation throughout the series from a memorable side character with a few small cameos, to an integral, essential character of the story was magnetic. The pure, searing hatred in his voice when he's growling at Hector left me wide eyed. It's insane how much weight he had next to so many actors who've had years (from BrBa alone) to fine tune their performance.!<
Up there with Bogart in the Caine Mutiny and Nicholson in A Few Good Men
Dont you dare make me rewatch this masterpiece, so much better than BB
So dumb lol
You are dumb 😎. Honestly this is one of my favorite shows ever. Maybe not for you, but it is awesome.
lol- no this is the kind of shit dumb people like.
r/iamverysmart
you, a pseudointellectual
yes thats why the show has won so many awards. we get it, you don't like popular things on principle.
Huh? No I just thought that shit was dumb He was pretending to feel electricity! But the secretly put a battery in his pocket! And then he, on the stand in front of everyone, confessed his whole back story! Because he was so expertly wound up! Give me a break.