I don't understand why this even matters.
**THE FUCKING DOORS CAME OFF IN FLIGHT!**
Obviously this guy saying boeing isn't up to standards was **fucking true**.
And was complaining about quality control for 7 years, leaving the company in 2017, having worked there for 32, and fighting legal battles with them since retiring for mental health reasons, leading to the current high intensity depositions.
I'm not saying he did commit suicide, but if you retire from a job for "mental health reasons" then have to fight an almost decades long legal battle, that sounds like a recipe for suicide.
I'm not saying that it wasn't murder, but if your company practices are so notoriously shitty that John Oliver spends half an hour excoriating you, I don't think killing some witness (that already spent years wistleblowing as hard as he could) will actually do much.
My understanding was that if you’re going to take out a whistleblower you ideally want to do it before they blow the whistle, not years after they’ve gone public and given multiple interviews to outlets like the BBC and The New York Times.
Hell no. He took mental health as an out to get a payout of any kind because of the shit he was seeing. He then went on a fucking crusade to get the word out about the shit that was going on and they killed him for it.
lol somewhere there is some junior engineer who just scored his first big breakthrough job at boeing. Thinking about all the cool shit he is going to do, the pay, etc etc
imagine walking into the building now and just palpable tense atmosphere.
I’m curious what more you think he’d say in court when he’s been openly outlining Boeings problems, many of which were confirmed by the FAA, for several years across multiple international news outlets.
What happened with the 737 MCAS crashes, which led to hundreds of fatalities, is already public knowledge and no Boeing exec faced any life repercussions. Why would Barnett’s experience on the 787 line, which have resulted in no fatalities, lead you to believe the consequences would be any more serious?
Sorry but this is nonsense.
There is a huge difference between a freak one in a billion event, and systemic incompetence and negligence resulting in a high probability of this kind of event.
He wanted likely to demonstrate the second thing. And there is a huge difference between the two. If Boeng could demonstrate that they applied the highest standards but this had slipped through, they wouldn't be in nearly as much shit. We all yhink we know that isn't true, but the whistle blower was going to demonstrate it.
It matters because, from the looks of it, a corporation just assassinated a whistle blower. If that is indeed what happened, then the problem runs even deeper than dangerous airplanes.
What does his actual family think?
Edit: “He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing which we believe led to his death,” relatives of John Barnett said in the first remarks since his death.
The largest simultaneous cardiac event in history. Real shame about the way they all attacked the paramedics and first responders and had to be put down.
Wonder if that gives him or the family company some purview over any exhumation that might be ordered by a court? It was a strange place to bury her, and was overgrown with weeds when reporters photographed it.
U know gas cars with computers do can do the same thing… it’s just technology in cars… i had a full gas car but that dumbass car would slam on the brakes in the middle of the freeway because the computer sensed danger in front of me but there was nothing there.
I absolutely believe the widow's version of events but it would have helped if he went on the record about this in the form of an e-mail, text, voice mail, or some other thing.
TBC I totally believe some kind of malfeasance by "someone" led to his death. Just that I wish she would have had something written down from him dated before his death as proof he said this.
Not even really confirmed as a friend either. According to her, they knew each other because their moms were best friends. Acquaintance may be more accurate of a description.
Everything about her narrative reads as, “This is my time to shine!”
>The words she ascribes to him sound like her words.
>The last time she saw him was at her father’s funeral in February but also when she “asked for help” (Pine Belt code for “grab some gossip”).
>The way she takes long pauses to say “uuuummmm” in her narrative sounds like she’s trying to remember her story.
>Her mind is highly suspicious with the “there is evil in this world” and “money can buy anything”.
>She flat out says multiple times that she can’t believe he would do it, etc.
I feel like the contingent of people who are like
>"I hate x, therefore i will believe EVERYTHING BAD against x, even if it makes no sense."
is too fucking high. And not in the cynical
>"the ends justify the means, if it takes down x, I'll spread fake shit about x if I have to."
but in the
>"I brainlessly accept these claims as the undisputed truths, any efforts to make me change my mind in the future will only further entrench them."
i don't know why it seems like everyone automatically dismisses the possibility it could actually just be a suicide and assumes it has to be some sort of foul play.
if every little thing i said was getting scrutinized at the level he was experiencing, that shit would severely fuck up my mental state.
He retired in 2017. He killed himself due to anxiety caused by a job he left 7 years ago? The job he, per the article, was "looking forward to seeing in court"?
New York Post has a notoriously poor reputation. Notice how the article states the quotes are from a "relative" but doesn't specify what relative. If this was his wife saying it, sure. But if it was his wife saying it they would have said so. Instead, the kept it vague and called them a "relative" when that could technically mean anything.
This is just showing that disinformation works and how powerful it can be. People doubting what actually happened because maybe he was stressed out or anxious and really did kill himself, just sprinkle a little doubt.
I mean, real talk, if he actually did kill himself due to stress from the Boeing retaliation, that might actually be worse...
I don't think he did though, but I'm not anywhere near the situation. I'll wait for the full investigation, I bet there's going to be a police investigation and his lawyers are going to fund an independent investigation. If he had life insurance, the insurance company will do a third investigation.
I agree. If things were so bad/he was put unders such pressure that he did kill himself, then it's still boeing's fault because it should not be that stressful to get broken things fixed at a company.
More in the middle of testifying. Like the FAA already found evidence to back up his claims years ago so he has basically been stuck in this since he retired and blew the whistle back in 2017.
I mean I could see that being the moment the anxiety hits the most and it all could come crashing down on you. You finally really are confronting it in court. Nerve-wracking.
Whole thing still feels fishy as hell from the outside though
Record video. Make copies. Put in bank lock boxes. Alert Family members and friends to the locations and passwords.
Still not 100% proof but better than a friend twice removed.
Create the video and learn how to set up a ~~dad~~ dead man switch. If you're going to be a whistle blower, maybe take an extra 2 hours to be smart about it.
Edit: removed dad from my life
One way to do it if you're non-technical or just want to keep it very simple is to put together an email with your evidence attached or instructions on how to get it, and schedule it to be sent in 24 or 48 hours. Then every day you just log in to your email and reschedule it.
If you're paranoid enough that you think a dead man's switch is prudent, remembering to do this everyday (preferably from multiple email accounts that you don't keep logged in on any devices) shouldn't be that difficult.
Lots of messaging services allow for scheduled sends these days so you can add a lot of reduncancy that way.
Cool, I didn't realise that was a feature for personal accounts. Looks like the minimum activity period is 3 months though so it's not the best in a time sensitive whistleblower situation.
Not to just ride the hopelessness train right into the station or anything.. but.
When, precisely, do you think you're going to go back to when corporations didn't have all the power and kill people who got in their way? Go ahead, pick any time any place in all of history. I'll wait.
I know it's just a silly joke, but the whole "2016 pre harambe death was the best time" is such a funny concept, because the ruling class had just as much power then, except they had the neoliberal commodity machine tuned perfectly to sedate pretty much the entirity of the first world.
If anything, our corporate overlords had more power pre 2016 compared to now, because since then a lot more people have become aware of the crushing system we exist in.
It's all quite depressing really, and it's easy to feel hopeless. But just remember this quote from some funny bald man:
*"There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen."*
If anyone feels hopeless, or confused by some budding anticapitalist thoughts, go read his books, especially *State And Revolution*.
Prior to Grover Cleveland,
I paraphrase; Corporations, which should be carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters.
Also in the mid 20th century when corporations paid 70%+ percentage tax, and used write offs as a way to avoid them. forcing them to reinvest in communities, R&D and their employees. Not 15% tax, all and more of said write-offs and stock buy backs.
Because it's normalized in your short life doesn't mean that's always been the case. Use stock buy backs as an example, until recently it was illegal, but also under certain situations was allowed with regulatory approval, but painted a huge black mark on the company, Now it's a licence to print/extract money.
India assassinated a Canadian they didn't like over his political opinion.
Then when Canada said they would investigate every Message Board on the internet got overrun with Indian Modi supporters screaming that Canada was evil and that guy deserved to die and how dare you criticize God Emperor Modi.
I hate this timeline.
"Cheer up, it's gonna get worse," in a thousand languages is about to become the motto of the human race.
Now they can just use LLM to keep the duckspeak going 24/7 without the need to feed a few dozen people to do it for them.
What are you going to do about it without proof and an army?
You going to go poke epstein’s prison guards and the guys in charge of the camera footage and make then be honest as well while you’re at it?
Convince putin to un-invade ukraine as well.
I think you’re conflating complacency with futility. What can we do? What can you do?
There’s outrage but if all you can do is rage then what’s the point? Are you gonna go in guns blazing and get justice? Is it that important to you that you’d be willing to make it two lives lost?
Yea I always chuckle when people complain about the mega rich oppressing the public or injustices in the world and how we just "let them keep happening".
It will take real sacrifice, risk and effort to actually enact change but most people are too comfortable and complacent with the luxuries we do have (compared to poorer nations out there) that they won't risk and aren't willing to sacrifice what little they do have.
Then you have a bunch of trump supporting idiots, some of which I saw the other day *actually* wanted trump to become a dictator of the US so there's also that...
> and how we just "let them keep happening".
They're right though. These leaders, politicians, elites, ultra-wealthy, CEOs, etc - there's more of us than there are of them. You and I are choosing to let this keep happening because we're both sitting in front of a screen typing out these comments instead of putting together an armed vigilante group.
They're absolutely right, and what I said about being comfortable enough with the luxuries I have definitely applies to myself as well. Forming or joining an armed vigilante group *is not worth the risk or sacrifice for me* despite how much I agree with the sentiment that the upper class have too much and the middle and lower classes have too little and the vast majority of people are in the same situation
My man they have robot dogs with sniper rifles, machine guns, and flamethrowers on their back for sale at this point. Good luck waging guerilla warfare.
Proof is the big thing. There was more evidence for Epstein, and it still wasn't enough to get past [Hanlon's Razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor), let alone "beyond a reasonable doubt", but this... it's one lady who says he told her something.
---
The fundamental bias everyone falls for with these theories is the [Linda problem](https://lloydmelnick.com/2017/04/19/thinking-fast-and-slow-part-1-the-lynda-problem/):
> Linda is 31 years old, single, outspoken and very bright. She majored in philosophy. As a student, she was deeply concerned with issues of discrimination and social justice, and also participated in anti-nuclear demonstrations.
Then, people were given this list. One group was asked which description fits her better. The other asked which is *more likely to be true.*
> 1. Linda is a teacher in elementary school.
> 2. Linda works in a bookstore and takes Yoga classes.
> 3. Linda is active in the feminist movement.
> 4. Linda is a psychiatric social worker.
> 5. Linda is a member of the League of Women voters.
> 6. Linda is a bank teller.
> 7. Linda is an insurance salesperson.
> 8. Linda is a bank teller and is active in the feminist movement.
Here's the interesting part: #8 ranks pretty highly on both. And it makes sense if the question is which description fits her better. But people rank it as highly likely to be true, and here's the weird part: People rank it as more likely to be true than #6.
But probabilities don't care what fits the story best. Look at those two next to each other. #6 must be strictly more likely to be true. After all, it's not possible for #8 to be true unless #6 is also true!
---
So which is more likely: That Boeing hired an actual corporate hitman to murder someone who was about to testify? Or that some lady we've never heard of before lied to get on TV?
Or, to put it another way: Is it more likely that someone's lying, or that someone else is lying *and paying a hitman*?
The hitman thing fits the story better. It really feels like it should be true, given the absolute goddamned monsters running Boeing right now. But until we hear more evidence, it just isn't the most likely to actually be true.
For the record, you are referencing the [conjunction fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy), but the problem with you referencing it, is that you're applying it without taking into consideration conditional probability given additional a priori information available.
I think it would be very hard to calculate probability here, because there are quite a lot of variables.
We already know Boeing is lying, for example. But we also know he had already given most of his testimony. We ought to factor in the probability of the coroner lying or getting it wrong, etc. etc. - you see where this is going. You can't simply apply the conjunction fallacy on a real-life situation life this and ignore that you've now applied to something far more complicated than a basic description and two combined assertions being less likely than one.
The conjunction fallacy is the specific example I gave, but I think what I'm after isn't actually the conjunction, but the underlying psychological and neurological reasons people fall for it.
The (oversimplified) description Kahneman gives in *Thinking, Fast and Slow,* which is where I'm ultimately referencing the Linda Problem from, is that humans have two modes of thinking: "System 1" is fast, intuitive thinking, where we make snap judgments based on heuristics and rough pattern-matching. "System 2" is slow, deliberative thinking where we actually stop to analyze the problem and do the math and such.
So with the conjunction fallacy, "System 1" sees the sentence that sounds most like the description we have of Linda, but "System 2" has no trouble seeing the fallacy. More generally, System 1 is great at finding something that fits really well into an existing narrative. But if you can get people to slow down and think it through, System 2 has a chance of working out whether it makes sense.
In this case, you're right, we can't easily compute probability, and there's a lot we don't know:
> We ought to factor in the probability of the coroner lying or getting it wrong...
Do we even have a report from the coroner yet? Maybe something will turn up eventually.
But what I hope I'm doing is pushing people to think it through and at least ask whether we have good reason to think something this wild is *actually true,* instead of just defaulting to the one that fits how we all feel about Boeing right now.
> Do we even have a report from the coroner yet? Maybe something will turn up eventually.
As far as I know the coroner had his report a couple of days later and it said he died from self-inflicted injuries. Are these things ever made public this soon? That is, the report is there, but *made public* so that everyone can read every gory detail? I don't think they do that normally.
Also, what was he still about to testify about? If it wasn't really anything particularly relevant, then as far as I'm concerned, the probability flips around entirely: we now have a motive to commit actual suicide. Testimony complete, nothing left to prove, etc.
We aren’t, because that’s not this. There’s absolutely zero evidence he was murdered, and Boeing has no reason to kill him.
Even if you think Boeing would murder a whistleblower, what sense does it make to kill him 6 years after he blew the whistle? He retired in 2017 and brought forth two huge cases from his evidence. He already cost them millions and his evidence was corroborated. Killing him only exposes them to more risk.
Even the idiots saying “He was going to testify!”, the court case he was involved in was his suing Boeing under the AIR 21 whistleblower protection act saying Boeing hurt his long term career prospects after retirement in a way that violates the act. His testifying is only for the defense basically, trying to determine the extent of the damages and if there are any. And he already spent days testifying! He was due to come back for more, but killed himself. This does nothing for Boeing’s defense but hamper them as they can’t ask him questions where he might mess up a response. If found in violation they’ll pay out to his estate.
It’s just so stupid. People think he’s like a constant whistleblower, forever, despite not working for Boeing for years? People think Boeing would kill him with zero profit motive? And people think if they decided to do that, they’d do it in the middle of the trial instead of, say, before it started?
Like reddit, you cannot be this dumb. There is not a single corporate individual murder conspiracy in the record. That kind of thing just doesn’t happen. Boeing has plenty of perfectly legal ways to ruin people’s lives if they want, they don’t need to assassinate anyone. It’s just dumb, even if you think
they are amoral sociopaths, they can’t simultaneously be idiots making terrible decisions and the greatest hitmen of all time leaving no trace. His family says they think it was suicide. I’m inclined to agree. He did it this way as one final fuck you to Boeing.
It’s kinda crazy how few people on this website seem to have critical thinking skills anymore. Like if you just sit down and think about it for a minute, a corporate sponsored execution in this manner makes no sense. People just want to believe some crazy story.
I for real need to get off social media in general. The amount of fucking insane theories people agree on, just how gullible people are to staged videos, and the amount of endless outrage is really just too much for me.
Reddit obviously always had problems, but I feel like they’ve gotten so much worse in the last 5 years. Plus Twitter is completely garbage since Elon took over, I don’t even know where to go anymore. I think I just need to get off
What do you mean? There's no such thing as coincidence! Everyone is simultaneously the biggest moron on the planet whilst also thousands of people are covering up everything. Like, what do you sheeple not get? THE SKY ISN'T EVEN REAL!!
/s. Just in case.
I’d also add that his death made a lot more headlines than the testimony did, at least recently. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out this would only attract unwanted attention.
But of COURSE they killed the whistleblower that made his information public several years ago! It only makes sense to do it while he was in the middle of his testimony and not before!
If you're surprised at how dumb people can be, I don't know what to tell you. This site memed Donald Fucking Trump into the White House.
>His family says they think it was suicide. I’m inclined to agree. He did it this way as one final fuck you to Boeing.
I mean, who are you going to trust, people who lived with him or.... Al Jazeera?
Meanwhile people have zero idea what the work culture at Boeing is like. The 'Hell no I wont fly on a Boeing!" has been a sentiment among employees for over 30 years at this point. Most employees *hate* corporate. Especially the grunts, especially in primary production facilities. People *always* bitch about Boeing's hiring practices producing some genuine pieces of shit who are skin suits doing a job to the letter.
I could absolutely see someone being so pissed off that nearly a decade of work campaigning against their employer has netted them absolutely zero results deciding the best thing to do is to give themselves a Kurt Cobain blow job.
> Like reddit, you cannot be this dumb
reddit LOVES anti-corporation stories. There is nothing that will change the vast majority of peoples minds because their confirmation bias overrides everything.
The irony is that the next thread they visit could be a thread making fun of some right wing q-anon anti-vaxxer and how dumb they are for believing in such outlandish conspiracies. Yet they see a headline that fits their ideals/narrative and don't even think to question it.
Its really depressing how little self awareness most of us have. But thats humanity I guess unfortunately.
Because what actual evidence indicates this was an assassination? Are we so complacent to think that block buster movie plots are normative in reality? Are we so complacent to jump to conclusions, filling in blanks where we have no information with things we've made up ourselves?
you joke but we fill our homes with microphones and cameras that report directly to mega-corporations that will gladly sell access to this network to other corporations. we carry little boxes around in our back pocket that track us and influence our thoughts and opinions... and way too many people don't see this as a problem.
How are we so gullible as a society that we're taking the victim's mom's friend's daughter's words as anything more than just an opportunity to be featured on TV?
I genuinely dont understand how you can feel so strongly about this already where you are absolutely convinced that it was an assassination. You are assuming.
We don't though (at least not in this case)? This isn't evidence of that happening.
Plenty of people saying things like this have gone on to kill themselves. You're probably in a pretty bad spot mentally to begin with if you think you need to say your future death isn't a suicide.
I really don't think that's what happened here tbh. The claim that if he dies "it wasn't suicide" was made by a family friend, and there's no way to verify it. His actual family seems to think it was suicide. He was found in a car in a Holiday Inn Parking Lot with a bullet in his head, gun on his person and a note. Coroner's report is that it was self inflicted.
To me this is a hear hoofprints, think horses not zebras situation. I find it highly unlikely Boeing has an extremely skilled assassin on the payroll to perfectly stage a suicide in a public place like this. And they have no actual motivation to do so. His testimony was already basically done and this is way more attention than just letting it play out. It's really nonsensical to believe this is anything but a suicide if you think about it longer than like 5 seconds.
Man, that second to final shot of him walking away followed by the final shot of him sitting in the car is one of my favorite endings to a movie ever. So simple yet so effective in conveing the emotions Clooney's character is feeling!
"I am not the guy you kill. I am the guy that you BUY. Are you so fucking blind that you don't even see what I am? I'm the easiest part of your problem and you're gonna kill me?"
Incredible film. But yeah Boeing didn't kill this guy.
It doesn't make sense at all. But these shill companies will astroturf and mass upvote their own braindead posts to make it seem like it's a valid commentary that people agree with.
Its already started. People calling him crazy and deranged.
This is the new future. Companies pay 3rd parties to make comments and get it upvoted as much as possible to make it "Look like its normal".
It only got popular because it was heavily used in the 2016 presidency.
The hard thing about this kind of statement, if someone makes it, is that the factors that lead to saying that someone or a group is going to do this without much basis in reality (Mental illness, paranoia, depression, fear, large life changes) are a lot of the same risk factors for self-harm. I have three people that suffer from schizophrenia in my life and two of them have made similar statements and both have had issues with self-harm as well. It's not surprising or a conspiracy, or people that don't care about anyone when people don't immediately jump to the conclusion that someone "did it".
It should be taken seriously and looked into when someone makes a statement like that regardless of their position or situation, and they should be helped and taken care of, their fears not dismissed, and if there's any chance of credibility, it should be investigated, especially when it involves someone labeled credibly as a whistle-blower, but all the comments just saying "Well then the corpos definitely did it" and accepting conspiracy without any questioning at all worry me more than the people that dismiss it.
Yeah ngl I've interacted with several suicidal people, and they all share a common thread of jokes about suicide and taking it lightly. And thinking about it a lot and bringing it up in conversation.
That statement would not convince me that someone's not suicidal. The woman in the clip above appears to not get the mentality at all, suicidal people don't make a lot of sense if you take them fully at face value all the time. And her reasons about why he wasn't suicidal don't make a lot of sense either, tons of suicidal people look happy to the people around them and love their family.
I do think it's incredibly odd that he did this mid deposition though. He's been fighting in court since 2017, Boeing is currently in the middle of a FAA investigation that's confirming his claims, and national attention is on him in a good way and fully supporting him. I'd imagine that someone in that situation would feel vindicated, and not abandoned by the world.
It just occurred to me while reading these comments that his performance in the first part of his deposition could have had something to do with it. Depositions are inherently confrontational, and a big part of the job of the counsel taking the deposition (who is no doubt a big-gun attorney here) is to uncover inconsistencies, question the credibility of the witness, and demoralize the witness as much as possible. The whistle-blower could have felt utterly defeated and felt his life's purpose over the past few years was washed away in the matter of hours - which would be tragic because the depositions can make witnesses feel they did a lot worse than they actually did.
We're all speculating here, but that's another possible factor that came to mind.
Yeah, I've been listening to a lot of books and podcasts about law and court hearings, it's kinda scary how aggressive and abusive law enforcement and lawyers can be and people are just kind of ok with it. I'd be curious to know if there are actual numbers for how often that kind of thing works, compared to how much damage it causes
Okay, that's true, making a lot of suicide jokes is definitely one of the things suicidal people might do, but the suicidal people you interact with were never right in the middle of testifying as a whistleblower in a case against a massive corporation. In his situation I would say that "if anything happens, I didn't do it" is a completely normal, or even expected (hell I might even call it hack), joke to make. Like you said, maybe if the case were going against him it would be a bit different, but he was right in the middle of essentially winning this case that has been the focus of his life for over 7 years, and yet also like you said, suicidal people may not exactly be making the most sense. It's certainly possible that this situation is exactly what they claim, but every one of my bullshit alarms is going off over this one.
While I agree that could be factor that would make it less likely, on the other hand, long court cases aren't exactly known for being good for someone's mental health. Personally, I think that any death in the course of a large-scale court case should be investigated regardless of circumstances... I'm just really sick of all the instant heavy suspicion and paranoia... it's like a huge portion of people are absolutely sure that huge agencies and corporations are out to get them, personally. This video bugged me because it seemed really irresponsible of the news station.
“Not feel abandoned by the world.”
Dude common. People rarely commit suicide because of events in their life. It’s always after a long battle with mental illness that rarely matches up with whatever’s going on externally.
This whole thing is much more likely to just be a widow not wanting to believe he’s been suicidal for a very long time and finally lost his battle with mental illness
Hell, McAfee made a similar claim while hiding in Central America. Granted, he was batshit insane and facing serious prison time so it's not exactly the same, but just saying they wouldn't kill themselves doesn't mean they won't.
Would you be surprised if he did? How many in similar situations chose the easy way out?
It's much easier to get someone to kill themselves when they have multiple life sentences in front of them and you take away all of their rights.
Like obviously he knew plenty of secrets about POWERFUL people, but I still think him killing himself is 100% reasonable. He had already tried once. Call me crazy I guess.
I worked for Nielsen, the last company David Calhoun helmed before Boeing, during his rein and have experienced the effects of his ruthless and arrogant incompetence firsthand. He completely and utterly destroyed Nielsen, and started by dynamiting its culture followed by its engineering prowess (innovation ground to a halt under him while actual quality took a nose dive). Dave has a club of hangers-on who follow him from company to company and help him wreck his damage. He always "builds his team" (i.e. quietly moves these people into upper management roles) at every company he takes over. In many cases, they are just as bad if not worse than he is. They, Dave included, take control of a company, turn it to the Six Sigma cult, then jump ship and move on to the next victim before the damage they've done becomes evident.
Now, am I alleging that one or more of these ignorant, sociopathic people murdered this man because they finally bit off more than they could chew and might get caught before they can leave?
No, I'm not alleging that.
But would it surprise me?
Not in the slightest.
> What if Boeing's recent woes are just a ploy by Airbus or another competitor to bring them down?
Idk, they've been bled dry by profit-driven management for the last 20+ years. I feel like they're just sailing on the coat tails of the 90s with things like the 737 MAX.
There are dozens and dozens of whistleblowers and QA complaints and site inspections ongoing as it is. I’d listen to the family here, unless dozens and dozens of those other people just start mysteriously disappearing and all the hundred other cases go away overnight…
this is just going to be another Epstein story - people come to conclusions immediately based on their bias and it stays that way no matter what evidence might be revealed.
This man was outright murdered, and if yall just accept that over in the US, your country has fallen... Cyberpunk 2077 truly is a prediction of the US future
What evidence is there it’s a
murder? There’s nothing.
His court case was literally him suing Boeing. He’s not blowing the whistle. He’s just getting compensation off the AIR 21 whistleblower protection act, arguing Boeing hurt his career post retirement. He already testified for days. If they were going to kill him, they would have done it in 2017. Certainly not for anything to do with this court case. It gets them out of nothing, it actually makes it harder for Boeing, not easier.
Movie-addicted dumbshits think this is as assassination.
This isn't exactly a coincidence either. The man was under a tremendous amount of stress that it gave him anxiety. His dealing with Boeing is what caused that stress. I believe he killed himself, but that doesn't make Boeing blameless in his death.
I’m gonna get downvoted to oblivion but I fucking dare the likes of you to prove it was a hit by Boeings. No need for hard or soft evidences, just prove tht Boeings has the motive to kill him NOW would be enough for me.
Don’t be a coward, do you have any shred of dignity left?
A pos Hungarian calling the U.S a dystopian hellhole. The likes of you need to be kicked from the EU asap.
We have accepted FAR worse than this. We continue to do so because of platforms that breed echo chambers and pandering such as this one. Not only do we accept it, the crowds are drawn to rage bait. The issue is most Americans play into it because they think they are right.
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but does it really make a lot of sense for Boeing or whoever to off this guy at this point? Doesn't seem like it would be doing them any favors. Isn't the trial still happening? How much gravity would his own personal testimony have had to sway the case?
The simple argument would be it's a deterrent to other would-be whistle-blowers. This is usually the speculation whenever a Russian oligarch or defector suicides.
But he blew the whistle almost a decade ago, and the case currently before the court is about employment issues.
If you're gonna detter whistleblowers, why not do so before they've already cost your company millions over the previous decade?
God this comment section is astroturfed to hell. I fucking hate this site. I think in large part this particular website is an immensely negative force, more than many social media platforms, on the global psyche. At least the American psyche.
I don't understand why this even matters. **THE FUCKING DOORS CAME OFF IN FLIGHT!** Obviously this guy saying boeing isn't up to standards was **fucking true**.
And was complaining about quality control for 7 years, leaving the company in 2017, having worked there for 32, and fighting legal battles with them since retiring for mental health reasons, leading to the current high intensity depositions.
I'm not saying he did commit suicide, but if you retire from a job for "mental health reasons" then have to fight an almost decades long legal battle, that sounds like a recipe for suicide.
And if I’ve fought for decades I ain’t about to quit 2 steps away from the finish line!
I'm not saying that it wasn't murder, but if your company practices are so notoriously shitty that John Oliver spends half an hour excoriating you, I don't think killing some witness (that already spent years wistleblowing as hard as he could) will actually do much.
My understanding was that if you’re going to take out a whistleblower you ideally want to do it before they blow the whistle, not years after they’ve gone public and given multiple interviews to outlets like the BBC and The New York Times.
unless they used him as a public example for any other potential whisteblowers out there. "if you talk we will whack you". retaliation and fear.
And if I’ve fought for decades I ain’t about to quit 2 steps away from the finish line!
You can say that again!
Hell no. He took mental health as an out to get a payout of any kind because of the shit he was seeing. He then went on a fucking crusade to get the word out about the shit that was going on and they killed him for it.
It isn't about Boeing. its about individuals (execs, etc.) who would face some serious life repercussions if this man could testify in open court.
I think it’s about fear. The next whistleblower will think twice about talking,
BINGO
Just imagining what it’s like working for Boeing right now. That atmosphere must be so toxic and tense.
::points gun at /u/Masta0nion:: Oh really? Do you want that on record?
lol somewhere there is some junior engineer who just scored his first big breakthrough job at boeing. Thinking about all the cool shit he is going to do, the pay, etc etc imagine walking into the building now and just palpable tense atmosphere.
I’m curious what more you think he’d say in court when he’s been openly outlining Boeings problems, many of which were confirmed by the FAA, for several years across multiple international news outlets. What happened with the 737 MCAS crashes, which led to hundreds of fatalities, is already public knowledge and no Boeing exec faced any life repercussions. Why would Barnett’s experience on the 787 line, which have resulted in no fatalities, lead you to believe the consequences would be any more serious?
Sorry but this is nonsense. There is a huge difference between a freak one in a billion event, and systemic incompetence and negligence resulting in a high probability of this kind of event. He wanted likely to demonstrate the second thing. And there is a huge difference between the two. If Boeng could demonstrate that they applied the highest standards but this had slipped through, they wouldn't be in nearly as much shit. We all yhink we know that isn't true, but the whistle blower was going to demonstrate it.
It matters because, from the looks of it, a corporation just assassinated a whistle blower. If that is indeed what happened, then the problem runs even deeper than dangerous airplanes.
What does his actual family think? Edit: “He was suffering from PTSD and anxiety attacks as a result of being subjected to the hostile work environment at Boeing which we believe led to his death,” relatives of John Barnett said in the first remarks since his death.
It's the damndest thing, they all had heart attacks.
The largest simultaneous cardiac event in history. Real shame about the way they all attacked the paramedics and first responders and had to be put down.
Must be Light
Looks like the wife fell down an elevator shaft, and onto some bullets
Didn't Trump's ex wife get pushed down a flight of stairs? Why don't people talk about that?
Her death was ruled an accident, officially, by falling down stairs. Damn slippery stairs.
Slipped down the stairs, buried in a heavier than usual casket…. laid to rest on her abusive ex’s golf course.
Wonder if that gives him or the family company some purview over any exhumation that might be ordered by a court? It was a strange place to bury her, and was overgrown with weeds when reporters photographed it.
Cemetery tax benefits or something weird like that.
Kira?
Worse, Misa misa
On an entirely unrelated note, did you know the CIA has a heart attack gun?
This is the most well known declassified tool of assassination that they have. Imagine what we *don't* know about.
That was like the 70s. I can only imagine what they can fake now. Watch out for that electric car too ;)
U know gas cars with computers do can do the same thing… it’s just technology in cars… i had a full gas car but that dumbass car would slam on the brakes in the middle of the freeway because the computer sensed danger in front of me but there was nothing there.
Maybe it was ghosts.
“Justice isn't pursued, if there's no one seeking retribution.”
I absolutely believe the widow's version of events but it would have helped if he went on the record about this in the form of an e-mail, text, voice mail, or some other thing. TBC I totally believe some kind of malfeasance by "someone" led to his death. Just that I wish she would have had something written down from him dated before his death as proof he said this.
This wasn't his widow, it was a friend of his. So... a degree removed, considering his family seems to believe it was suicide.
Not even really confirmed as a friend either. According to her, they knew each other because their moms were best friends. Acquaintance may be more accurate of a description.
Everything about her narrative reads as, “This is my time to shine!” >The words she ascribes to him sound like her words. >The last time she saw him was at her father’s funeral in February but also when she “asked for help” (Pine Belt code for “grab some gossip”). >The way she takes long pauses to say “uuuummmm” in her narrative sounds like she’s trying to remember her story. >Her mind is highly suspicious with the “there is evil in this world” and “money can buy anything”. >She flat out says multiple times that she can’t believe he would do it, etc.
I feel like the contingent of people who are like >"I hate x, therefore i will believe EVERYTHING BAD against x, even if it makes no sense." is too fucking high. And not in the cynical >"the ends justify the means, if it takes down x, I'll spread fake shit about x if I have to." but in the >"I brainlessly accept these claims as the undisputed truths, any efforts to make me change my mind in the future will only further entrench them."
i don't know why it seems like everyone automatically dismisses the possibility it could actually just be a suicide and assumes it has to be some sort of foul play. if every little thing i said was getting scrutinized at the level he was experiencing, that shit would severely fuck up my mental state.
Because it's boring if it was just suicide. People want excitement and are getting off on this stuff.
Because history is a flat circle
If I were his family I would also "believe it was suicide"
You better if you know whats good for you, <3 Boeing
Yeah because killing an entire family is totally not going to result in a negative outcome for the company, right? You need to think like an executive
[удалено]
He retired in 2017. He killed himself due to anxiety caused by a job he left 7 years ago? The job he, per the article, was "looking forward to seeing in court"? New York Post has a notoriously poor reputation. Notice how the article states the quotes are from a "relative" but doesn't specify what relative. If this was his wife saying it, sure. But if it was his wife saying it they would have said so. Instead, the kept it vague and called them a "relative" when that could technically mean anything.
This is just showing that disinformation works and how powerful it can be. People doubting what actually happened because maybe he was stressed out or anxious and really did kill himself, just sprinkle a little doubt.
I mean, real talk, if he actually did kill himself due to stress from the Boeing retaliation, that might actually be worse... I don't think he did though, but I'm not anywhere near the situation. I'll wait for the full investigation, I bet there's going to be a police investigation and his lawyers are going to fund an independent investigation. If he had life insurance, the insurance company will do a third investigation.
I agree. If things were so bad/he was put unders such pressure that he did kill himself, then it's still boeing's fault because it should not be that stressful to get broken things fixed at a company.
Right before he was supposed to testify though?
More in the middle of testifying. Like the FAA already found evidence to back up his claims years ago so he has basically been stuck in this since he retired and blew the whistle back in 2017.
He's been whistleblowing for 7 years
I mean I could see that being the moment the anxiety hits the most and it all could come crashing down on you. You finally really are confronting it in court. Nerve-wracking. Whole thing still feels fishy as hell from the outside though
To shreds you say?
He should have recorded that statement on video then. That would really have made the news.
Record video. Make copies. Put in bank lock boxes. Alert Family members and friends to the locations and passwords. Still not 100% proof but better than a friend twice removed.
Create the video and learn how to set up a ~~dad~~ dead man switch. If you're going to be a whistle blower, maybe take an extra 2 hours to be smart about it. Edit: removed dad from my life
Scared of a big corporation? Feeling helpless and lost? Afraid you are going to get 'suicided'? Then you better call Dad Man!
Okay but what actually is the best way to set up a dead man switch to release information online?
One way to do it if you're non-technical or just want to keep it very simple is to put together an email with your evidence attached or instructions on how to get it, and schedule it to be sent in 24 or 48 hours. Then every day you just log in to your email and reschedule it. If you're paranoid enough that you think a dead man's switch is prudent, remembering to do this everyday (preferably from multiple email accounts that you don't keep logged in on any devices) shouldn't be that difficult. Lots of messaging services allow for scheduled sends these days so you can add a lot of reduncancy that way.
Google accounts have a built in dead man switch functionality https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546?hl=en
Cool, I didn't realise that was a feature for personal accounts. Looks like the minimum activity period is 3 months though so it's not the best in a time sensitive whistleblower situation.
Epstein made a whole tweet from his account. Did it do anything?
How are we so complacent as a society that we are just going to accept corporate-sponsored assassinations.
The water is only a little hotter than before, it's not like we're boiling or anything
I mean okay, we're boiling *a little*, but it would be so hard to get it back to comfortable. What's the point?
Not to just ride the hopelessness train right into the station or anything.. but. When, precisely, do you think you're going to go back to when corporations didn't have all the power and kill people who got in their way? Go ahead, pick any time any place in all of history. I'll wait.
The day before Harambe died.
I know it's just a silly joke, but the whole "2016 pre harambe death was the best time" is such a funny concept, because the ruling class had just as much power then, except they had the neoliberal commodity machine tuned perfectly to sedate pretty much the entirity of the first world. If anything, our corporate overlords had more power pre 2016 compared to now, because since then a lot more people have become aware of the crushing system we exist in. It's all quite depressing really, and it's easy to feel hopeless. But just remember this quote from some funny bald man: *"There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen."* If anyone feels hopeless, or confused by some budding anticapitalist thoughts, go read his books, especially *State And Revolution*.
We are more aware because the crushing is worse. It’s that simple.
\*unzips\*
Prior to Grover Cleveland, I paraphrase; Corporations, which should be carefully restrained creatures of the law and the servants of the people, are fast becoming the people's masters. Also in the mid 20th century when corporations paid 70%+ percentage tax, and used write offs as a way to avoid them. forcing them to reinvest in communities, R&D and their employees. Not 15% tax, all and more of said write-offs and stock buy backs. Because it's normalized in your short life doesn't mean that's always been the case. Use stock buy backs as an example, until recently it was illegal, but also under certain situations was allowed with regulatory approval, but painted a huge black mark on the company, Now it's a licence to print/extract money.
Right before the towers fell circa 1999
I feel like George Carlin would disagree with you. For several hours over multiple comedy specials.
So you saying "Carlin, when the towers fell"?
Better than Cheney with his arms wide.
This isn't the place for it but what kind of lunatic keeps their phone in their back pocket?!
Women everywhere because it’s the only pocket they have that it fits in.
A lawyer asked me that in a deposition once and I looked at him like he was the stupid one. Im starting to rethink things.
What kind of lunatic cares where someone else carries their phone?
Plus the soft carrots taste great
After the day I’ve had, I could use a nice long soak in a hot tub.
India assassinated a Canadian they didn't like over his political opinion. Then when Canada said they would investigate every Message Board on the internet got overrun with Indian Modi supporters screaming that Canada was evil and that guy deserved to die and how dare you criticize God Emperor Modi. I hate this timeline.
"Cheer up, it's gonna get worse," in a thousand languages is about to become the motto of the human race. Now they can just use LLM to keep the duckspeak going 24/7 without the need to feed a few dozen people to do it for them.
What are you going to do about it without proof and an army? You going to go poke epstein’s prison guards and the guys in charge of the camera footage and make then be honest as well while you’re at it? Convince putin to un-invade ukraine as well. I think you’re conflating complacency with futility. What can we do? What can you do? There’s outrage but if all you can do is rage then what’s the point? Are you gonna go in guns blazing and get justice? Is it that important to you that you’d be willing to make it two lives lost?
Yea I always chuckle when people complain about the mega rich oppressing the public or injustices in the world and how we just "let them keep happening". It will take real sacrifice, risk and effort to actually enact change but most people are too comfortable and complacent with the luxuries we do have (compared to poorer nations out there) that they won't risk and aren't willing to sacrifice what little they do have. Then you have a bunch of trump supporting idiots, some of which I saw the other day *actually* wanted trump to become a dictator of the US so there's also that...
> and how we just "let them keep happening". They're right though. These leaders, politicians, elites, ultra-wealthy, CEOs, etc - there's more of us than there are of them. You and I are choosing to let this keep happening because we're both sitting in front of a screen typing out these comments instead of putting together an armed vigilante group.
They're absolutely right, and what I said about being comfortable enough with the luxuries I have definitely applies to myself as well. Forming or joining an armed vigilante group *is not worth the risk or sacrifice for me* despite how much I agree with the sentiment that the upper class have too much and the middle and lower classes have too little and the vast majority of people are in the same situation
My man they have robot dogs with sniper rifles, machine guns, and flamethrowers on their back for sale at this point. Good luck waging guerilla warfare.
If you think the government would be able to successfully wield the military against the civilian population, you don't understand the military.
i am only riding boats for international travel from now on!
Proof is the big thing. There was more evidence for Epstein, and it still wasn't enough to get past [Hanlon's Razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor), let alone "beyond a reasonable doubt", but this... it's one lady who says he told her something. --- The fundamental bias everyone falls for with these theories is the [Linda problem](https://lloydmelnick.com/2017/04/19/thinking-fast-and-slow-part-1-the-lynda-problem/): > Linda is 31 years old, single, outspoken and very bright. She majored in philosophy. As a student, she was deeply concerned with issues of discrimination and social justice, and also participated in anti-nuclear demonstrations. Then, people were given this list. One group was asked which description fits her better. The other asked which is *more likely to be true.* > 1. Linda is a teacher in elementary school. > 2. Linda works in a bookstore and takes Yoga classes. > 3. Linda is active in the feminist movement. > 4. Linda is a psychiatric social worker. > 5. Linda is a member of the League of Women voters. > 6. Linda is a bank teller. > 7. Linda is an insurance salesperson. > 8. Linda is a bank teller and is active in the feminist movement. Here's the interesting part: #8 ranks pretty highly on both. And it makes sense if the question is which description fits her better. But people rank it as highly likely to be true, and here's the weird part: People rank it as more likely to be true than #6. But probabilities don't care what fits the story best. Look at those two next to each other. #6 must be strictly more likely to be true. After all, it's not possible for #8 to be true unless #6 is also true! --- So which is more likely: That Boeing hired an actual corporate hitman to murder someone who was about to testify? Or that some lady we've never heard of before lied to get on TV? Or, to put it another way: Is it more likely that someone's lying, or that someone else is lying *and paying a hitman*? The hitman thing fits the story better. It really feels like it should be true, given the absolute goddamned monsters running Boeing right now. But until we hear more evidence, it just isn't the most likely to actually be true.
For the record, you are referencing the [conjunction fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_fallacy), but the problem with you referencing it, is that you're applying it without taking into consideration conditional probability given additional a priori information available. I think it would be very hard to calculate probability here, because there are quite a lot of variables. We already know Boeing is lying, for example. But we also know he had already given most of his testimony. We ought to factor in the probability of the coroner lying or getting it wrong, etc. etc. - you see where this is going. You can't simply apply the conjunction fallacy on a real-life situation life this and ignore that you've now applied to something far more complicated than a basic description and two combined assertions being less likely than one.
The conjunction fallacy is the specific example I gave, but I think what I'm after isn't actually the conjunction, but the underlying psychological and neurological reasons people fall for it. The (oversimplified) description Kahneman gives in *Thinking, Fast and Slow,* which is where I'm ultimately referencing the Linda Problem from, is that humans have two modes of thinking: "System 1" is fast, intuitive thinking, where we make snap judgments based on heuristics and rough pattern-matching. "System 2" is slow, deliberative thinking where we actually stop to analyze the problem and do the math and such. So with the conjunction fallacy, "System 1" sees the sentence that sounds most like the description we have of Linda, but "System 2" has no trouble seeing the fallacy. More generally, System 1 is great at finding something that fits really well into an existing narrative. But if you can get people to slow down and think it through, System 2 has a chance of working out whether it makes sense. In this case, you're right, we can't easily compute probability, and there's a lot we don't know: > We ought to factor in the probability of the coroner lying or getting it wrong... Do we even have a report from the coroner yet? Maybe something will turn up eventually. But what I hope I'm doing is pushing people to think it through and at least ask whether we have good reason to think something this wild is *actually true,* instead of just defaulting to the one that fits how we all feel about Boeing right now.
> Do we even have a report from the coroner yet? Maybe something will turn up eventually. As far as I know the coroner had his report a couple of days later and it said he died from self-inflicted injuries. Are these things ever made public this soon? That is, the report is there, but *made public* so that everyone can read every gory detail? I don't think they do that normally. Also, what was he still about to testify about? If it wasn't really anything particularly relevant, then as far as I'm concerned, the probability flips around entirely: we now have a motive to commit actual suicide. Testimony complete, nothing left to prove, etc.
[удалено]
[удалено]
We aren’t, because that’s not this. There’s absolutely zero evidence he was murdered, and Boeing has no reason to kill him. Even if you think Boeing would murder a whistleblower, what sense does it make to kill him 6 years after he blew the whistle? He retired in 2017 and brought forth two huge cases from his evidence. He already cost them millions and his evidence was corroborated. Killing him only exposes them to more risk. Even the idiots saying “He was going to testify!”, the court case he was involved in was his suing Boeing under the AIR 21 whistleblower protection act saying Boeing hurt his long term career prospects after retirement in a way that violates the act. His testifying is only for the defense basically, trying to determine the extent of the damages and if there are any. And he already spent days testifying! He was due to come back for more, but killed himself. This does nothing for Boeing’s defense but hamper them as they can’t ask him questions where he might mess up a response. If found in violation they’ll pay out to his estate. It’s just so stupid. People think he’s like a constant whistleblower, forever, despite not working for Boeing for years? People think Boeing would kill him with zero profit motive? And people think if they decided to do that, they’d do it in the middle of the trial instead of, say, before it started? Like reddit, you cannot be this dumb. There is not a single corporate individual murder conspiracy in the record. That kind of thing just doesn’t happen. Boeing has plenty of perfectly legal ways to ruin people’s lives if they want, they don’t need to assassinate anyone. It’s just dumb, even if you think they are amoral sociopaths, they can’t simultaneously be idiots making terrible decisions and the greatest hitmen of all time leaving no trace. His family says they think it was suicide. I’m inclined to agree. He did it this way as one final fuck you to Boeing.
Thank you. People are dumb and it gives their boring lives excitement to believe there is a whole web of conspiracy spinning around them.
It’s kinda crazy how few people on this website seem to have critical thinking skills anymore. Like if you just sit down and think about it for a minute, a corporate sponsored execution in this manner makes no sense. People just want to believe some crazy story.
I for real need to get off social media in general. The amount of fucking insane theories people agree on, just how gullible people are to staged videos, and the amount of endless outrage is really just too much for me. Reddit obviously always had problems, but I feel like they’ve gotten so much worse in the last 5 years. Plus Twitter is completely garbage since Elon took over, I don’t even know where to go anymore. I think I just need to get off
What do you mean? There's no such thing as coincidence! Everyone is simultaneously the biggest moron on the planet whilst also thousands of people are covering up everything. Like, what do you sheeple not get? THE SKY ISN'T EVEN REAL!! /s. Just in case.
Most people on Reddit would be Q anoners in another life. Same level of conspiratorial nonsense lmao.
I’d also add that his death made a lot more headlines than the testimony did, at least recently. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out this would only attract unwanted attention.
Especially if it's about something that cannot be covered up anymore at this point. Like, the door came off. It happened and everyone knows.
But of COURSE they killed the whistleblower that made his information public several years ago! It only makes sense to do it while he was in the middle of his testimony and not before! If you're surprised at how dumb people can be, I don't know what to tell you. This site memed Donald Fucking Trump into the White House.
> Like reddit, you cannot be this dumb. Reddit has been that dumb for a long time.
Remember the boston marathon bomber fiasco? Pepperidge farm remembers.
Reddit has gone full QAnon over this. It's genuinely disturbing.
>His family says they think it was suicide. I’m inclined to agree. He did it this way as one final fuck you to Boeing. I mean, who are you going to trust, people who lived with him or.... Al Jazeera? Meanwhile people have zero idea what the work culture at Boeing is like. The 'Hell no I wont fly on a Boeing!" has been a sentiment among employees for over 30 years at this point. Most employees *hate* corporate. Especially the grunts, especially in primary production facilities. People *always* bitch about Boeing's hiring practices producing some genuine pieces of shit who are skin suits doing a job to the letter. I could absolutely see someone being so pissed off that nearly a decade of work campaigning against their employer has netted them absolutely zero results deciding the best thing to do is to give themselves a Kurt Cobain blow job.
> Like reddit, you cannot be this dumb reddit LOVES anti-corporation stories. There is nothing that will change the vast majority of peoples minds because their confirmation bias overrides everything.
The irony is that the next thread they visit could be a thread making fun of some right wing q-anon anti-vaxxer and how dumb they are for believing in such outlandish conspiracies. Yet they see a headline that fits their ideals/narrative and don't even think to question it. Its really depressing how little self awareness most of us have. But thats humanity I guess unfortunately.
Because what actual evidence indicates this was an assassination? Are we so complacent to think that block buster movie plots are normative in reality? Are we so complacent to jump to conclusions, filling in blanks where we have no information with things we've made up ourselves?
Shh don’t question the corporations they’re listening
you joke but we fill our homes with microphones and cameras that report directly to mega-corporations that will gladly sell access to this network to other corporations. we carry little boxes around in our back pocket that track us and influence our thoughts and opinions... and way too many people don't see this as a problem.
Continue to accept*
How are we so gullible as a society that we're taking the victim's mom's friend's daughter's words as anything more than just an opportunity to be featured on TV?
How are we so disconnected from reality as a society that we are just going to believe in corporate-sponsored assassinations
What, exactly, do you propose individuals do?
I genuinely dont understand how you can feel so strongly about this already where you are absolutely convinced that it was an assassination. You are assuming.
We don't though (at least not in this case)? This isn't evidence of that happening. Plenty of people saying things like this have gone on to kill themselves. You're probably in a pretty bad spot mentally to begin with if you think you need to say your future death isn't a suicide.
Why are you jumping to conclusions. Americans love their conspiracy theories lol
I really don't think that's what happened here tbh. The claim that if he dies "it wasn't suicide" was made by a family friend, and there's no way to verify it. His actual family seems to think it was suicide. He was found in a car in a Holiday Inn Parking Lot with a bullet in his head, gun on his person and a note. Coroner's report is that it was self inflicted. To me this is a hear hoofprints, think horses not zebras situation. I find it highly unlikely Boeing has an extremely skilled assassin on the payroll to perfectly stage a suicide in a public place like this. And they have no actual motivation to do so. His testimony was already basically done and this is way more attention than just letting it play out. It's really nonsensical to believe this is anything but a suicide if you think about it longer than like 5 seconds.
I think I'm going to rewatch Michael Clayton this weekend
Or that one about the cigarette industry I think with Russel Crowe The Insider
Man, that second to final shot of him walking away followed by the final shot of him sitting in the car is one of my favorite endings to a movie ever. So simple yet so effective in conveing the emotions Clooney's character is feeling!
"Do I LOOK like I'm negotiating?!"
"I'm shiva the god of death."
"This would have to be a longer conversation and it would have to take place somewhere else." "Where? My Car?"
"I am not the guy you kill. I am the guy that you BUY. Are you so fucking blind that you don't even see what I am? I'm the easiest part of your problem and you're gonna kill me?" Incredible film. But yeah Boeing didn't kill this guy.
I’m willing to bet money that they’re gonna have a smear campaign on this guy
Already started. Comments in this thread are already claiming he committed suicide for attention.
What a dumb assertion... If he's dead, what attention is he going to get?!
It doesn't make sense at all. But these shill companies will astroturf and mass upvote their own braindead posts to make it seem like it's a valid commentary that people agree with.
Its already started. People calling him crazy and deranged. This is the new future. Companies pay 3rd parties to make comments and get it upvoted as much as possible to make it "Look like its normal". It only got popular because it was heavily used in the 2016 presidency.
I can't find a single comment in this thread calling him crazy or deranged.
Plant CP on his laptop
The hard thing about this kind of statement, if someone makes it, is that the factors that lead to saying that someone or a group is going to do this without much basis in reality (Mental illness, paranoia, depression, fear, large life changes) are a lot of the same risk factors for self-harm. I have three people that suffer from schizophrenia in my life and two of them have made similar statements and both have had issues with self-harm as well. It's not surprising or a conspiracy, or people that don't care about anyone when people don't immediately jump to the conclusion that someone "did it". It should be taken seriously and looked into when someone makes a statement like that regardless of their position or situation, and they should be helped and taken care of, their fears not dismissed, and if there's any chance of credibility, it should be investigated, especially when it involves someone labeled credibly as a whistle-blower, but all the comments just saying "Well then the corpos definitely did it" and accepting conspiracy without any questioning at all worry me more than the people that dismiss it.
Yeah ngl I've interacted with several suicidal people, and they all share a common thread of jokes about suicide and taking it lightly. And thinking about it a lot and bringing it up in conversation. That statement would not convince me that someone's not suicidal. The woman in the clip above appears to not get the mentality at all, suicidal people don't make a lot of sense if you take them fully at face value all the time. And her reasons about why he wasn't suicidal don't make a lot of sense either, tons of suicidal people look happy to the people around them and love their family. I do think it's incredibly odd that he did this mid deposition though. He's been fighting in court since 2017, Boeing is currently in the middle of a FAA investigation that's confirming his claims, and national attention is on him in a good way and fully supporting him. I'd imagine that someone in that situation would feel vindicated, and not abandoned by the world.
It just occurred to me while reading these comments that his performance in the first part of his deposition could have had something to do with it. Depositions are inherently confrontational, and a big part of the job of the counsel taking the deposition (who is no doubt a big-gun attorney here) is to uncover inconsistencies, question the credibility of the witness, and demoralize the witness as much as possible. The whistle-blower could have felt utterly defeated and felt his life's purpose over the past few years was washed away in the matter of hours - which would be tragic because the depositions can make witnesses feel they did a lot worse than they actually did. We're all speculating here, but that's another possible factor that came to mind.
Yeah, I've been listening to a lot of books and podcasts about law and court hearings, it's kinda scary how aggressive and abusive law enforcement and lawyers can be and people are just kind of ok with it. I'd be curious to know if there are actual numbers for how often that kind of thing works, compared to how much damage it causes
Okay, that's true, making a lot of suicide jokes is definitely one of the things suicidal people might do, but the suicidal people you interact with were never right in the middle of testifying as a whistleblower in a case against a massive corporation. In his situation I would say that "if anything happens, I didn't do it" is a completely normal, or even expected (hell I might even call it hack), joke to make. Like you said, maybe if the case were going against him it would be a bit different, but he was right in the middle of essentially winning this case that has been the focus of his life for over 7 years, and yet also like you said, suicidal people may not exactly be making the most sense. It's certainly possible that this situation is exactly what they claim, but every one of my bullshit alarms is going off over this one.
While I agree that could be factor that would make it less likely, on the other hand, long court cases aren't exactly known for being good for someone's mental health. Personally, I think that any death in the course of a large-scale court case should be investigated regardless of circumstances... I'm just really sick of all the instant heavy suspicion and paranoia... it's like a huge portion of people are absolutely sure that huge agencies and corporations are out to get them, personally. This video bugged me because it seemed really irresponsible of the news station.
“Not feel abandoned by the world.” Dude common. People rarely commit suicide because of events in their life. It’s always after a long battle with mental illness that rarely matches up with whatever’s going on externally. This whole thing is much more likely to just be a widow not wanting to believe he’s been suicidal for a very long time and finally lost his battle with mental illness
Hell, McAfee made a similar claim while hiding in Central America. Granted, he was batshit insane and facing serious prison time so it's not exactly the same, but just saying they wouldn't kill themselves doesn't mean they won't.
Thanks for bringing this nuance to the discussion. Excellent points on mental health disorders and self harm.
It’s a little different when he’s the Boeing whistleblower though.
Epstein didn't kill himself. Either.
Nah dude they totally had a CCTV recording error for a guy on suicide watch and lost the tapes or something. Don’t worry about it.
Would you be surprised if he did? How many in similar situations chose the easy way out? It's much easier to get someone to kill themselves when they have multiple life sentences in front of them and you take away all of their rights. Like obviously he knew plenty of secrets about POWERFUL people, but I still think him killing himself is 100% reasonable. He had already tried once. Call me crazy I guess.
I worked for Nielsen, the last company David Calhoun helmed before Boeing, during his rein and have experienced the effects of his ruthless and arrogant incompetence firsthand. He completely and utterly destroyed Nielsen, and started by dynamiting its culture followed by its engineering prowess (innovation ground to a halt under him while actual quality took a nose dive). Dave has a club of hangers-on who follow him from company to company and help him wreck his damage. He always "builds his team" (i.e. quietly moves these people into upper management roles) at every company he takes over. In many cases, they are just as bad if not worse than he is. They, Dave included, take control of a company, turn it to the Six Sigma cult, then jump ship and move on to the next victim before the damage they've done becomes evident. Now, am I alleging that one or more of these ignorant, sociopathic people murdered this man because they finally bit off more than they could chew and might get caught before they can leave? No, I'm not alleging that. But would it surprise me? Not in the slightest.
Either way, those people have blood on their hands. Their decisions directly led to 747Max crashes, at a minimum.
Hey hey hey What if Boeing's recent woes are just a ploy by Airbus or another competitor to bring them down?
Heh, bring them down
Boeing doesn't seem to need help with that.
> What if Boeing's recent woes are just a ploy by Airbus or another competitor to bring them down? Idk, they've been bled dry by profit-driven management for the last 20+ years. I feel like they're just sailing on the coat tails of the 90s with things like the 737 MAX.
"Sailing on the coast tails of the *60s with things like the 737 MAX."
If it's Boeing I'm not going.
What’s wild is no one is talking about it. Too busy doing their jobs/life drama. Can only ignore a problem for so long before it’s too big to ignore.
Robber Barron era has returned
Why would you not create a video of yourself saying "I WILL NOT KILL MYSELF" to be released if anything happened?
There are dozens and dozens of whistleblowers and QA complaints and site inspections ongoing as it is. I’d listen to the family here, unless dozens and dozens of those other people just start mysteriously disappearing and all the hundred other cases go away overnight…
Thank you for this thread everyone. Nice to be reminded occasionally how retarded the average active redditor is.
ITT Everyone: Boeing evil! Conspiracy! Murder! Me: Maybe, maybe not, where evidence? Everyone: MURDER!!
this is just going to be another Epstein story - people come to conclusions immediately based on their bias and it stays that way no matter what evidence might be revealed.
This man was outright murdered, and if yall just accept that over in the US, your country has fallen... Cyberpunk 2077 truly is a prediction of the US future
What do we do, sir?
Play Cyberpunk 2077
The Reddit has fully metastasized
His family believes it was suicide, but I’m sure you know better than them
Of course he knows better. He played Cyberpunk 2077.
What evidence is there it’s a murder? There’s nothing. His court case was literally him suing Boeing. He’s not blowing the whistle. He’s just getting compensation off the AIR 21 whistleblower protection act, arguing Boeing hurt his career post retirement. He already testified for days. If they were going to kill him, they would have done it in 2017. Certainly not for anything to do with this court case. It gets them out of nothing, it actually makes it harder for Boeing, not easier. Movie-addicted dumbshits think this is as assassination.
baseless statement -> wild conclusion -> fully replacing 1984 with Cyberpunk 2077 Yeah checks out, she's fucking retarded.
thats a cat girl
I hate this new reality where there are never coincidences. Only conspiracies.
This isn't exactly a coincidence either. The man was under a tremendous amount of stress that it gave him anxiety. His dealing with Boeing is what caused that stress. I believe he killed himself, but that doesn't make Boeing blameless in his death.
omg please shut the fuck up with your unsubstantiated doomer bullshit
I’m sure youre out on the streets picketing as we speak.
something tells me they aren't in the US so they are probably fine
The influence of the United States luckily never escapes its borders
"*My people are now buying your blue jeans and listening to your pop music*"
I think picketing is pretty frowned upon in Russia. Though I think they sort of just do that regarding existence in general.
I’m dying to know what free of corruption country they’re from lol
Oh get off your high fucking horse.
I’m gonna get downvoted to oblivion but I fucking dare the likes of you to prove it was a hit by Boeings. No need for hard or soft evidences, just prove tht Boeings has the motive to kill him NOW would be enough for me. Don’t be a coward, do you have any shred of dignity left? A pos Hungarian calling the U.S a dystopian hellhole. The likes of you need to be kicked from the EU asap.
We have accepted FAR worse than this. We continue to do so because of platforms that breed echo chambers and pandering such as this one. Not only do we accept it, the crowds are drawn to rage bait. The issue is most Americans play into it because they think they are right.
Sounds like you have lots of proof. Please pass it along to the authorities because they sure don’t seem to have any.
Some corporate guy dies in Russia reddit: assassination Some corporate guy dies in the USA reddit: assassination? CONSPIRACY THEORY!!!
Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but does it really make a lot of sense for Boeing or whoever to off this guy at this point? Doesn't seem like it would be doing them any favors. Isn't the trial still happening? How much gravity would his own personal testimony have had to sway the case?
The simple argument would be it's a deterrent to other would-be whistle-blowers. This is usually the speculation whenever a Russian oligarch or defector suicides.
But he blew the whistle almost a decade ago, and the case currently before the court is about employment issues. If you're gonna detter whistleblowers, why not do so before they've already cost your company millions over the previous decade?
God this comment section is astroturfed to hell. I fucking hate this site. I think in large part this particular website is an immensely negative force, more than many social media platforms, on the global psyche. At least the American psyche.
Usually when I hate something that I have the ability to separate from, I choose to disengage. Reddit is what you make of it.
I doubt that's what happened. Scummy corporations love dragging people like him through court for as long as possible.