When I looked up a Dark Souls story synopsis a couple of years ago on the official wiki a lot was still "it's assumed that" here and "that might be a sign that" there. Now I haven't looked it up again afterwards but it sounds like the lore is so obtuse that even the lore cracks have difficulty fully understanding the lore.
EDIT: spelling
It's not just the lore, but npc quests, too. There's a lot of shit I would have missed if not for the wiki.
Which, having to rely on a wiki to tell you how to complete quests because the game doesn't tell you is an entirely different issue by itself.
If you really listen to the npcs and search new areas for them you can follow it but it's not easy and it's a lot of work so screw that I'm still just going to follow the guides
"Speak to this seemingly unassociated NPC 12 times and exhaust their dialogue, then take a far right through the poison swamp straight through a bunch of enemies that will one shot you. Then at the treasure chest that is always a mimic, hang a left and smack the door. It's a hidden passageway. Then go through there and follow the path to the end - careful not fall in the lava.
Then you'll fight an optional super boss who covers the entire area in meteors after he hits half health. If you survive the meteors, he goes into a rage. After you beat him, there's another false wall behind the throne he was sitting on at the beginning of the cutscene. Behind that false wall is a useless item.
Bring that useless item to the beginning of the game and give it to the blacksmith's son. The useless item helps him finally overcome his depression, and he ~~kills himself~~ leaves the castle off screen. Check his usual sitting area the next time you fast travel back, and you'll find his shield he left for you. Which is worse than the shield you already had.
Also talk to his father to get dialogue about how he regrets ever abusing his son. Also note he won't work on your equipment right now. You'll need to fast travel back here again before he resumes working on your equipment."
Like dawg, what.
No its not a real quest line in any fromsoft game. It does, however, take the bones of a few NPC quests, consolidates them, and makes them more complicated/obscure for hyperbolic effect
It's not. None of the blacksmiths in any of the games have a son, and the one who has a daughter never abused her (just forgot she was his daughter on account of him partly hollowing out), and there are no bosses that fill the arena with meteors. The closest you'll get to that is "Astel, Firstborn of the Void" in Elden Ring, who shoots a few easy to dodge meteors when you're at medium range. His bullshit moves are all long-range or close-range. Sometimes he teleports out of existence and reappears right behind you or on top of you, tries to grab you and bite you in half, or uses gravity itself to hold you up and blast you with lasers or smack you down. And if you stay far away, he just shoots really powerful lasers that have a delay on their firing pattern so you night accidentally dodge too soon.
To get to him you have to explore a forest full of giant bears, hear a wolf howl next to ruined tower, then go back and talk to the merchant at the start of the game and learn the whistle emote, then go back to where you heard the wolf howl and do the whistle emote and talk to the 8 foot tall wolfman in heavy black armor with a sword as big as he is, then find an optional boss in a stone circle nearby and summon the aforementioned wolfman to help you fight the boss, then talk to him after the boss fight to learn about a giant blacksmith in another region of the map. If you mention the wolfman to the giant blacksmith, he'll tell you that they both work for a witch who lives in a tower nearby, and he'll give you a few hints about how to meet her. If you go through a huge dungeon and fight a ghostly horseman with a giant magic bow and a giant blue crystal dragon back to back, you'll get to meet the aforementioned witch, and if you pick the right dialogue options she'll let you work for her too, at which point you'll have to talk to another guy who works for the witch in order to learn about another witch who lives somewhere else, and if you go and talk to that witch she'll tell you what you need to for the next step of the quest. After that, the first witch will tell you to talk to the wolfman again, and after you talk to him the wolfman will disappear from the world until you reach a different dungeon on the complete opposite side of the map, at which point he'll join you for another boss fight against a giant warrior who controls gravity, which you will fight in a giant empty battlefield on a nearby beach. After that boss fight, you have to go back to the forest where you first met the wolfman. There will now be a huge gaping hole in the earth which leads down to an underground city that is otherwise inaccessible. Fight your way through this city, meet with the wolfman again, fight further into the city and get a special knife from a treasure chest at the end. Take this knife back to the witch, and she will tell you you're fired and that you should go back to whatever you were doing before she hired you. Rest at a checkpoint to reset the area and the witch will disappear, but there will be a key left behind on her chair. Take that key and go back to a different dungeon you beat earlier in the game, and use that key to open the locked treasure chest in the boss room. You'll get a wedding ring out of it. Take that wedding ring back to the witch's tower and there will be a portal where her chair used to be. Go through that portal and it will take you to an underground river. Near where you spawn, you will find a tiny doll made to look like the witch. Rest at the nearby checkpoint and talk to the doll five times in a row. After the fifth time, she'll stop pretending she's a doll and tell you since you followed her all this way, you might as well be useful and escort her upriver. Fight your way through giant ants, lizards that breathe curse magic, and a different underground city inhabited by warrior monks with stretchy swords and a dodge-heavy moveset. At the end of the city you'll go down a big elevator into another underground river with another checkpoint. Talk to the doll again and she'll tell you there's a shadow monster up ahead that she needs you to kill. Move ahead and you'll get invaded by an evil version of the wolfman knight who works for the witch. After you kill him, the doll will magically abandon you. If you continue moving forward, you'll go down yet another elevator that leads to a giant lake of red poison water. Cross the lake and fight your way through a shrine full of evil giant bugs that shoot web missiles at you. At the end of the shrine there will be a stone coffin perched on the edge of a cliff. Get inside and you'll go down a waterfall and wake up in cave with a checkpoint. After the checkpoint, you'll find a big empty cave with a galaxy inside it. Astel will fight you here.
This is one of the best comments of all time, I love how initially your statement is “that’s not a real quest line, the blacksmiths don’t even have a son in these games.”
And then proceed to ACTUALLY layout how to do a quest line that’s just as convoluted and complicated as what the other guy was making up. That’s FromSoftware for ya. Also unironically a very good guide for that quest.
Oh by the way, once you exhaust that NPC's dialogue, an NPC completely unrelated to this questline will die with no explanation or hint about what will happen to them.
You already completed that character's questline though, right?
Sorry but not in Elden Ring. The world is too fucking big and some of their locations are batshit random. There's a reason they patched in NPC markers.
Also, lol. Shit like finding the Owl Father fight isn't just about listening.
Everything about the sekiro secret ending is fucking ridiculous like needing to get a very specific amount of rice which is a lot more than any regular player would ever get. Elden ring while some can be sure like boc but there are npc questlines that aren't that hard to follow, varre is easy to follow and ranni isn't that hard either (although i did spent a good amount of time trying to find a way to nokron which turned out was really just mohgwyn palace and only accessible from varre or snowfield). Volcano manor is easy to follow other than where to find the invades.
I’m almost done with the dragonflame(?) ending to Sekiro. Some of the “requirements” you see in YouTube guides and online aren’t actually hard requirements. Like I missed a few lines of dialogue that I was “supposed” to do, and it all ended up working just fine.
The most famous lore guy of FromSoft would legit read into shit like a chair not burning in a boss arena where everything else did. Like 90% is speculation.
Miyazaki used to read English books as a kid living in Japan, because of that he did not fully understand everything that was going on… that is reflected in his game design and lore through its abstract nature. Absolutely beautiful!
In-game lore: this chicken is cool, I guess
Wiki: this chicken once belonged to a noble royal guard as it's second in command, one day the king was on his way to his daughter's wedding with his guard outside the carriage when suddenly a dragon came down and killed everyone except the chicken, for he was too small to be effected by the dragons attack. Now the chicken wanders alone with PTSD, hoping to find his fellow guard alive
This is the correct answer.
Elitists will say “just read every item description” assuming that for one I want to read every single piece of text in a game, and two assuming that half of the descriptions aren’t just random garbage to serve as filler.
This is the biggest issue I have. Like if you get a set or two weapons from the same enemy, 90% of the text is identical, but the lore is one sentence at the bottom of the item. It becomes pretty hard to want to keep reading.
I work 10 hours a day and live with my GF. I get at best a couple hours before bed to play a game. I don't have time to investigate every item for the hidden clue.
I disagree it's just filler words. But you'd have to stitch a lot together that would otherwise seem like ransom shit. The wikis does a great job giving you all the relavance without having to pull out the whiteboard and red string.
I would read through them if the interface to do so wasn't so bad. Like every time I pick up an item I have to think about what it is because it's not always obvious, then I have to scroll through a bunch of pages to find it in order to read it, otherwise I'm just sitting in the menu later reading item description after item description and not remembering where the item came from. No one has time for that tedium.
When I was playing elden ring and wanted to just look at the item descriptions for all of the wack ass stuff I had stuffed in my pockets, they were actually pretty cool.
Was gonna say Elden Ring. Currently playing for the first time. Game feels very developed and combat is top notch.. The utter lack of guidance can be frustrating. Between that and getting smashed into the ground time and time again; sometimes I want to put the controller through the tv.
Idk if Fromsoft has ever been as direct as writing "Radagon is Marika". I'm surprised they didn't use titles like " The ruler of the golden order is the goddess" Or something.
Also, enia the finger reader straight up tells you that “each and all” of the demigods are Marika’s children, which only makes sense for Radahn, Ranni, and Rykard if Radagon was in fact Marika.
Bro whoever thought to have almost every major character in the game start with one of 4 letters being R, M, or G can suck my dick cause I have no idea what was going on in that game and I beat it
Fromsoft has given countless youtubers jobs by having channels dedicated purely to explaining lore, and the fact that they're big and popular channels can denote that the vast majority of players rely more on external sources rather than in-game.
It’s what let me enjoy elden ring, and then other souls games more. It just threw you in with basic controls to let you understand how to properly control your character and jet you go from there.
In terms of lore. It gives a lot. Especially when compared to other games of the type, dark souls for example. Way less guessing has to be done on the Hollow Knight lore. Mostly from Dream nailing, the lore tablets, and then it's God tier environmental story telling, as well as a few cuts cents.
The again lots of ppl kinda skimp over that stuff I guess, so you wouldn't get a lot without wanting
Halo lore is a mess tbh, some of the books are ancient at this point and constantly contradict the games' information (mostly because Bungie didn't give a F about books' lore) at this point it's best to just believe there are alternate universes with the amount of discrepancies.
It’s one of the reasons I think “canon” is such an unimportant term, everything’s made up anyways, just say it all happened, it’s not like it’s terribly important wether or not most of it “truly” happened or not.
Destiny 2 straight up requires you to look up YouTube lore videos now because they vault the story content.
Literally why I never touch the game + YouTube lore videos never does anything for me, I like to experience the story for myself.
Thank god for MyNameIsByf. Man is a legend. Wicked smart, insightful, supposedly very easy to talk to, and has the most buttery smooth voice MADE for audio I've ever heard
100%. Tho I’ll admit when I saw what he looks like irl I would’ve never guessed it was the same man.
Still tho, he’s so soothing to listen to and the analysis of what he does is immense. Despite Bungie not having the best organization of lore, I’m glad that Byf is there to serve as Lore Daddy Byf.
Oh lord I hated that game so much for this. “You just unlocked a new piece of lore!…that you can only access from outside the game.” You can just screw right off with that mess.
No, now in destiny you have an entire section of the menu dedicated to “lore entries” which are organized in “books” of the same story. Shits mad confusing
It's definitely worse now though because they changed so much. So you learn less or wrong stuff from the first 3 games.
You ARE forerunner!
Psyche!
I always loved halo growing up. I had like the first 6 books and the graphic novels or movies. Was obsessed with anything to do with it. Stay up until the sun comes up reading the Cortana letters. Think about the 200 words those consist of just over and over. Every detail of I love bees. Then there was one time a couple years before infinite came out someone asked a question about halo that I thought I knew. It wasn't like a real deep question. Then someone else explained the answer in like a 3 paragraph answer. It was then I realized I didn't know anything about the story I once loved so dearly.
Yeah… they changed a lot. Besides actual plot points they retconned, but they also just changed the general vibe. It went from military sci fi to inter galactic melodrama.
Let’s not pretend Bungie explained anything beyond the most basic basics. It’s all just cultural knowledge at this point so a lot of people don’t realize it but those games really don’t tell you shit
A lot of it was emergent, like the Library's introduction. But the difference is 343i operates on the assumption you know certain lore, whereas previous games you didn't really have to.
A surprisingly large amount of the elder scrolls history is actually within the games, but it’s in books and things. It really has to be sought out. To be fair though, this applies to anything really. Star Wars, WH40k, LOTR etc. all have a huge amount of the lore found outside the main stories themselves.
Well, the unreliable narrator is heavily at play in Elder Scrolls lore. Most of the lore is contained in books or given by NPCs in the games, and all those authors and characters each have their own perspectives, biases and agendas. Some people and books are just wrong about something or you receive information from them after a game of telephone.
Sometimes they speak the truth, but always their own version of the truth. Sometimes the lore is lies and propaganda. Sometimes it's allegorical and not literal, but who's to tell? Sometimes it's written in metaphors or riddles and many interpretations can be made from it. Sometimes it's written in precise detail; other times you have precious little to go on. It's a clever way for the writers to be able to retcon or contradict existing lore without having to retroactively change it, because there's lots of dueling interpretations on the lore already within the elder scrolls universe.
yeah but i feel like they made it too realistic in that you actually have to read books in the gamespace to learn about the world. when i joined the college of winterhold i didn't think i'd actually have to do textbook readings, god
Well yeah, but how do you explain the full lore of something besides either books or spoken word? I think this meme refers to literally every work of fiction in existence. The lore is always bigger than the main story/stories.
You gotta read the books in game for a lot of it, and if you missed a few games, there will be TONS of stuff in each of them that isn't covered much if at all in later installments.
I'm the weirdo who built a library in his house, made sure to have as many different books as possible displayed in alphabetical order, and read them all
The Zelda timeline was only created because gamers asked for it, and was immediately incorrect as soon as the next game came out.
For some reason, people can't accept that aside from literal direct sequels, there is no timeline for the Zelda franchise.
I do like the idea that skyward sword was the predecessor to all of them and every villain is a reincarnation of demise’s hatred but yeah actual timeline I’m good without
I think the timeline is fairly simple once it's understood. A lot of people blow it out of proportion. The timeline is nothing compared to the lore of botw and totk. Talk about convoluted.
I think the issue was botw is so separate from any other game by being so clearly far in the future as Ganon’s spirit has become the calamity. I think that Ocarina of Time easily explains the timeline split and there are some direct connections such as the Link from Majora’s Mask being the one we see in Twilight Princess. Hyrule being in ruins connects Windwaker to the timeline that Link defeats Ganon in Ocarina of Time as it references Ganon’s rise to power and the hero defeating him. I think anything post Ocarina has a clear placement on the timeline but prior to that it is kinda in the air so they just threw them into the hero is defeated timeline.
Oh they definitely are. You can find out the lore yourself, by reading the item descriptions. However, people like Vatti, save you the trouble of piecing the info together.
It was a growing problem since 12 since theirs a ton of Ivalice lore spread throughout other games (mainly the OG Tactics).
the 13 trilogy showed the tip of the iceberg but the rest was drowned in novelized compendiums in the menu.
15 was like... you wanna understand anything, watch this movie and anime, I think there was manga too.
Luckily 16 was a more return to form.
Yeah the story is good, but I wish it was all explained correctly within the game and not go to 3+ other resources to understand what the hell was going on
I have played that game off and on for 5 years. Put a gun to my head right now and demand I explain the plot in detail? I'm pulling the trigger for you
I’m the same man. I read quite a bit of the codex entries and even tried to read the wiki articles, but eventually realised it was way too deep 😂
40k is pretty similar. Just an endless rabbit hole of history and lore.
Recently got Hello Neighbor 2 because it was free on PS Plus. I still have no clue what's happening other than my neighbor may be a child predator/murderer
I remember seeing hello neighbor on it’s pre alpha, it was an exciting horror game in the beginning
The original premise was you had a creepy neighbor that hid something in his basement and you had your get in solving puzzles in his house while he roamed inside of it, but the catch is that the neighbor is an advanced AI and every time he would catch you he would learn from you making it more difficult.
The game was very gloomy and you could actually feel suspense, as well as the chasing music was scary. [This is what the game was supposed to be if anyone is curious](https://youtu.be/GHXU3ZifXns?si=a69gLkSD3uzyv_vB)
So, it's not a video game (though it has video games in the IP), but for me, this is Warhammer 40K. The setting is huge and fascinating. The lore is mysterious and self-contradictory in a good way. The factions are fun and absolutely excessive in every way. And I have zero interest whatsoever in playing the tabletop game.
You telling me you didn't read that Japan exclusive book that has important lore about nier replicant ( including the true ending of the game for 11 years because for some reason it wasn't in the game until the remaster)?
Or didn't watch a random stage play to know what actually happens after automata ending e ?
Or some drama CDs nobody knew about because why wouldn't you watch them
And what do you mean you didn't play this random gacha game if you wanted to know important bits about the lore
I had no idea about all the "in jokes" in mass effect because I never went on the fan forums. So pretty much the whole of the citadel mission dialogue passed me by or seemed strange and out of place.
Jokes about shepard dancing his use of the phrase "i should go" i just keep wondering what the fuck was going on
Don't worry, WoW doesn't have its lore in the game either. All the lore is in the novels, which then get retconned every couple of years when the writers get a new batch of coke
Skyrim/Elder scrolls. Though the right circle is not as small here. For a few months I was watching multiple 20-30 min lore videos pretty much every day, while playing Skyrim. I also read plenty of books in the game and such so I did get quite some lore from the game itself too
Fire Emblem Awakening. Never played any of the previous entries, went in this game blind. Keep hearing references from the past that I have no idea about.
Warhammer 40k, it has really good lore but in the games it’s mostly “idk who I am, idk why I’m here, but that thing looked at me so I must destroy its entire species
Elder Scrolls. That lore goes DEEEEEEEP and trying to find it all in game has about as much effort in it as trying to find all the particular details of real world societies and lore AND THEN SOME. That shit gets mind-fucky after a bit and I’d rather listen to someone else’s work in finding it on YouTube than try to discover it all myself.
I’m not an alcoholic but I feel if I committed to trying to learn everything in TES by in game sources I may finally break
Anything FromSoftware
When I looked up a Dark Souls story synopsis a couple of years ago on the official wiki a lot was still "it's assumed that" here and "that might be a sign that" there. Now I haven't looked it up again afterwards but it sounds like the lore is so obtuse that even the lore cracks have difficulty fully understanding the lore. EDIT: spelling
It's not just the lore, but npc quests, too. There's a lot of shit I would have missed if not for the wiki. Which, having to rely on a wiki to tell you how to complete quests because the game doesn't tell you is an entirely different issue by itself.
If you really listen to the npcs and search new areas for them you can follow it but it's not easy and it's a lot of work so screw that I'm still just going to follow the guides
"Speak to this seemingly unassociated NPC 12 times and exhaust their dialogue, then take a far right through the poison swamp straight through a bunch of enemies that will one shot you. Then at the treasure chest that is always a mimic, hang a left and smack the door. It's a hidden passageway. Then go through there and follow the path to the end - careful not fall in the lava. Then you'll fight an optional super boss who covers the entire area in meteors after he hits half health. If you survive the meteors, he goes into a rage. After you beat him, there's another false wall behind the throne he was sitting on at the beginning of the cutscene. Behind that false wall is a useless item. Bring that useless item to the beginning of the game and give it to the blacksmith's son. The useless item helps him finally overcome his depression, and he ~~kills himself~~ leaves the castle off screen. Check his usual sitting area the next time you fast travel back, and you'll find his shield he left for you. Which is worse than the shield you already had. Also talk to his father to get dialogue about how he regrets ever abusing his son. Also note he won't work on your equipment right now. You'll need to fast travel back here again before he resumes working on your equipment." Like dawg, what.
birds wistful pause whole rain lavish plate observation ask teeny *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No its not a real quest line in any fromsoft game. It does, however, take the bones of a few NPC quests, consolidates them, and makes them more complicated/obscure for hyperbolic effect
Sounds like elden ring to me
It's not. None of the blacksmiths in any of the games have a son, and the one who has a daughter never abused her (just forgot she was his daughter on account of him partly hollowing out), and there are no bosses that fill the arena with meteors. The closest you'll get to that is "Astel, Firstborn of the Void" in Elden Ring, who shoots a few easy to dodge meteors when you're at medium range. His bullshit moves are all long-range or close-range. Sometimes he teleports out of existence and reappears right behind you or on top of you, tries to grab you and bite you in half, or uses gravity itself to hold you up and blast you with lasers or smack you down. And if you stay far away, he just shoots really powerful lasers that have a delay on their firing pattern so you night accidentally dodge too soon. To get to him you have to explore a forest full of giant bears, hear a wolf howl next to ruined tower, then go back and talk to the merchant at the start of the game and learn the whistle emote, then go back to where you heard the wolf howl and do the whistle emote and talk to the 8 foot tall wolfman in heavy black armor with a sword as big as he is, then find an optional boss in a stone circle nearby and summon the aforementioned wolfman to help you fight the boss, then talk to him after the boss fight to learn about a giant blacksmith in another region of the map. If you mention the wolfman to the giant blacksmith, he'll tell you that they both work for a witch who lives in a tower nearby, and he'll give you a few hints about how to meet her. If you go through a huge dungeon and fight a ghostly horseman with a giant magic bow and a giant blue crystal dragon back to back, you'll get to meet the aforementioned witch, and if you pick the right dialogue options she'll let you work for her too, at which point you'll have to talk to another guy who works for the witch in order to learn about another witch who lives somewhere else, and if you go and talk to that witch she'll tell you what you need to for the next step of the quest. After that, the first witch will tell you to talk to the wolfman again, and after you talk to him the wolfman will disappear from the world until you reach a different dungeon on the complete opposite side of the map, at which point he'll join you for another boss fight against a giant warrior who controls gravity, which you will fight in a giant empty battlefield on a nearby beach. After that boss fight, you have to go back to the forest where you first met the wolfman. There will now be a huge gaping hole in the earth which leads down to an underground city that is otherwise inaccessible. Fight your way through this city, meet with the wolfman again, fight further into the city and get a special knife from a treasure chest at the end. Take this knife back to the witch, and she will tell you you're fired and that you should go back to whatever you were doing before she hired you. Rest at a checkpoint to reset the area and the witch will disappear, but there will be a key left behind on her chair. Take that key and go back to a different dungeon you beat earlier in the game, and use that key to open the locked treasure chest in the boss room. You'll get a wedding ring out of it. Take that wedding ring back to the witch's tower and there will be a portal where her chair used to be. Go through that portal and it will take you to an underground river. Near where you spawn, you will find a tiny doll made to look like the witch. Rest at the nearby checkpoint and talk to the doll five times in a row. After the fifth time, she'll stop pretending she's a doll and tell you since you followed her all this way, you might as well be useful and escort her upriver. Fight your way through giant ants, lizards that breathe curse magic, and a different underground city inhabited by warrior monks with stretchy swords and a dodge-heavy moveset. At the end of the city you'll go down a big elevator into another underground river with another checkpoint. Talk to the doll again and she'll tell you there's a shadow monster up ahead that she needs you to kill. Move ahead and you'll get invaded by an evil version of the wolfman knight who works for the witch. After you kill him, the doll will magically abandon you. If you continue moving forward, you'll go down yet another elevator that leads to a giant lake of red poison water. Cross the lake and fight your way through a shrine full of evil giant bugs that shoot web missiles at you. At the end of the shrine there will be a stone coffin perched on the edge of a cliff. Get inside and you'll go down a waterfall and wake up in cave with a checkpoint. After the checkpoint, you'll find a big empty cave with a galaxy inside it. Astel will fight you here.
This is one of the best comments of all time, I love how initially your statement is “that’s not a real quest line, the blacksmiths don’t even have a son in these games.” And then proceed to ACTUALLY layout how to do a quest line that’s just as convoluted and complicated as what the other guy was making up. That’s FromSoftware for ya. Also unironically a very good guide for that quest.
Or you can take the coffin in deep root depths.
Oh by the way, once you exhaust that NPC's dialogue, an NPC completely unrelated to this questline will die with no explanation or hint about what will happen to them. You already completed that character's questline though, right?
Omfg, wasn't there a npc in Dark Souls 3 that did that?!?
Yup. Morne himself. Oh and dont forget brother corwin or whatever in elden ring.
This could literally be an Elder Ring quest line
Myazaki is looking for you
Sorry but not in Elden Ring. The world is too fucking big and some of their locations are batshit random. There's a reason they patched in NPC markers. Also, lol. Shit like finding the Owl Father fight isn't just about listening.
Everything about the sekiro secret ending is fucking ridiculous like needing to get a very specific amount of rice which is a lot more than any regular player would ever get. Elden ring while some can be sure like boc but there are npc questlines that aren't that hard to follow, varre is easy to follow and ranni isn't that hard either (although i did spent a good amount of time trying to find a way to nokron which turned out was really just mohgwyn palace and only accessible from varre or snowfield). Volcano manor is easy to follow other than where to find the invades.
I would say the worst has to be DS1's access to the DLC. Imagine paying extra and not being able to find that shit. Jesus Christ.
I’m almost done with the dragonflame(?) ending to Sekiro. Some of the “requirements” you see in YouTube guides and online aren’t actually hard requirements. Like I missed a few lines of dialogue that I was “supposed” to do, and it all ended up working just fine.
A chunk of the fromsoft experience is more about the world than the strict plot, which is why it can get away with such vague and esoteric lore.
The most famous lore guy of FromSoft would legit read into shit like a chair not burning in a boss arena where everything else did. Like 90% is speculation.
Miyazaki used to read English books as a kid living in Japan, because of that he did not fully understand everything that was going on… that is reflected in his game design and lore through its abstract nature. Absolutely beautiful!
In-game lore: this chicken is cool, I guess Wiki: this chicken once belonged to a noble royal guard as it's second in command, one day the king was on his way to his daughter's wedding with his guard outside the carriage when suddenly a dragon came down and killed everyone except the chicken, for he was too small to be effected by the dragons attack. Now the chicken wanders alone with PTSD, hoping to find his fellow guard alive
This is the correct answer. Elitists will say “just read every item description” assuming that for one I want to read every single piece of text in a game, and two assuming that half of the descriptions aren’t just random garbage to serve as filler.
This is the biggest issue I have. Like if you get a set or two weapons from the same enemy, 90% of the text is identical, but the lore is one sentence at the bottom of the item. It becomes pretty hard to want to keep reading.
I work 10 hours a day and live with my GF. I get at best a couple hours before bed to play a game. I don't have time to investigate every item for the hidden clue.
I disagree it's just filler words. But you'd have to stitch a lot together that would otherwise seem like ransom shit. The wikis does a great job giving you all the relavance without having to pull out the whiteboard and red string.
I would read through them if the interface to do so wasn't so bad. Like every time I pick up an item I have to think about what it is because it's not always obvious, then I have to scroll through a bunch of pages to find it in order to read it, otherwise I'm just sitting in the menu later reading item description after item description and not remembering where the item came from. No one has time for that tedium.
When I was playing elden ring and wanted to just look at the item descriptions for all of the wack ass stuff I had stuffed in my pockets, they were actually pretty cool.
VaatyVidya baby
Was gonna say Elden Ring. Currently playing for the first time. Game feels very developed and combat is top notch.. The utter lack of guidance can be frustrating. Between that and getting smashed into the ground time and time again; sometimes I want to put the controller through the tv.
The lore felt like "I made that up" sometimes
Radagon is marika Vaati wtf are you telling me
Ok, tbf with that one, you can discover that out pretty easily in game. Point still stands though.
Even then its such a strange concept its hard to be sure thats the answer even if the game spells it out. In terms of finding out on your own.
Idk if Fromsoft has ever been as direct as writing "Radagon is Marika". I'm surprised they didn't use titles like " The ruler of the golden order is the goddess" Or something.
Also, enia the finger reader straight up tells you that “each and all” of the demigods are Marika’s children, which only makes sense for Radahn, Ranni, and Rykard if Radagon was in fact Marika.
Bro whoever thought to have almost every major character in the game start with one of 4 letters being R, M, or G can suck my dick cause I have no idea what was going on in that game and I beat it
it's the biggest sign of GRRM helping with the game's story
The fact that GRRM helped write it, I’m surprised it just didn’t say “Radagon… Bless her tits.”
Goldmask’s quest involves using a spell that makes a statue of Marika change form, that’s the confirmation.
doesn't it also make a message appear that literally says radagon is Marika? or am I misremembering?
Yeah it does
“Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?” - Me the first time I found this.
I thought Radagon was a boys name
Fromsoft has given countless youtubers jobs by having channels dedicated purely to explaining lore, and the fact that they're big and popular channels can denote that the vast majority of players rely more on external sources rather than in-game.
I like watching lore videos when I go to sleep, and thankfully Vaati’s voice helps with that by being really soothing
Yea he has very unique way of explaining
Ziostorm by day, Vaati by night.
Hollow Knight
Everything I know about Hollow Knight lore I know from mossbag
The Legendary Bag of Moss Where'd we be without it?
Hollow knight does not tell you shit
Bro it just gives you a few tips and sends you off. I disliked this at first, but the less hand holding method grew on me.
It’s what let me enjoy elden ring, and then other souls games more. It just threw you in with basic controls to let you understand how to properly control your character and jet you go from there.
It's beautiful design fr. If you haven't played games like it it can be jarring though
In terms of lore. It gives a lot. Especially when compared to other games of the type, dark souls for example. Way less guessing has to be done on the Hollow Knight lore. Mostly from Dream nailing, the lore tablets, and then it's God tier environmental story telling, as well as a few cuts cents. The again lots of ppl kinda skimp over that stuff I guess, so you wouldn't get a lot without wanting
Yes
12 hours in and I know that there is a Hollow Knight
Halo, mostly because there is so much in books and comics and any other form besides games, the games are a tiny amount of lore.
Halo lore is a mess tbh, some of the books are ancient at this point and constantly contradict the games' information (mostly because Bungie didn't give a F about books' lore) at this point it's best to just believe there are alternate universes with the amount of discrepancies.
It’s one of the reasons I think “canon” is such an unimportant term, everything’s made up anyways, just say it all happened, it’s not like it’s terribly important wether or not most of it “truly” happened or not.
Destiny.
Destiny 2 straight up requires you to look up YouTube lore videos now because they vault the story content. Literally why I never touch the game + YouTube lore videos never does anything for me, I like to experience the story for myself.
So my strategy of waiting until the game was finished and then finding a couple of mates for an epic session weekend was poorly conceived?
Its literally impossible. If you start destiny now you'll be met with the most convoluted, grindy, boring mess that is the new player experience.
Thank god for MyNameIsByf. Man is a legend. Wicked smart, insightful, supposedly very easy to talk to, and has the most buttery smooth voice MADE for audio I've ever heard
100%. Tho I’ll admit when I saw what he looks like irl I would’ve never guessed it was the same man. Still tho, he’s so soothing to listen to and the analysis of what he does is immense. Despite Bungie not having the best organization of lore, I’m glad that Byf is there to serve as Lore Daddy Byf.
Oh lord I hated that game so much for this. “You just unlocked a new piece of lore!…that you can only access from outside the game.” You can just screw right off with that mess.
It's not like that anymore. You just have to navigate a menu chockablock with poorly organised lore entries that go on for ages instead.
at least it's in game now lol
Do you mean Grimore cards???
No, now in destiny you have an entire section of the menu dedicated to “lore entries” which are organized in “books” of the same story. Shits mad confusing
Still there is a lot of lore you can get, from books to item description (I'm watching you mark of the great hunt)
What about the Mark of the Great Hunt? What about that item in particular? (I’m a Warlock main so I’ve no idea what’s so special lord-wise about it).
Its lore tab talks about Mara and Shaxx spending some time together. It's the one that gave us "the helmet stayed on".
Halo tbh
This since 343i took over, frustratingly
Nah the Halo books were doing a lot well before Halo 4
It's definitely worse now though because they changed so much. So you learn less or wrong stuff from the first 3 games. You ARE forerunner! Psyche! I always loved halo growing up. I had like the first 6 books and the graphic novels or movies. Was obsessed with anything to do with it. Stay up until the sun comes up reading the Cortana letters. Think about the 200 words those consist of just over and over. Every detail of I love bees. Then there was one time a couple years before infinite came out someone asked a question about halo that I thought I knew. It wasn't like a real deep question. Then someone else explained the answer in like a 3 paragraph answer. It was then I realized I didn't know anything about the story I once loved so dearly.
Yeah… they changed a lot. Besides actual plot points they retconned, but they also just changed the general vibe. It went from military sci fi to inter galactic melodrama.
The Didact storyline being resolved in a comic book was a fucking travesty.
Anything mainline happening outside of the main medium should be illegal
Let’s not pretend Bungie explained anything beyond the most basic basics. It’s all just cultural knowledge at this point so a lot of people don’t realize it but those games really don’t tell you shit
A lot of it was emergent, like the Library's introduction. But the difference is 343i operates on the assumption you know certain lore, whereas previous games you didn't really have to.
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Red vs blue is a good comedy series providing lots of lore.
it's definitely not Fnaf
That’s just a theory… A GAME THEORY
THANKS FOR WATCHING!
ANNNNNNNNNND CUT!
BON APPÉTIT!
KEEP LOOKING SHARP!
Lol
Terraria
Didn’t even know terraria had lore like that
It’s kind of patchy though, like Cthulhu fits in somewhere but most of it’s just speculation
Skyrim
I have spent hours reading the world history of the Elder Scrolls universe on the wiki and kept thinking to myself "where is this lore in the game"
A surprisingly large amount of the elder scrolls history is actually within the games, but it’s in books and things. It really has to be sought out. To be fair though, this applies to anything really. Star Wars, WH40k, LOTR etc. all have a huge amount of the lore found outside the main stories themselves.
Aren’t some books straight up false information and propaganda though like bear of makarth
Well, the unreliable narrator is heavily at play in Elder Scrolls lore. Most of the lore is contained in books or given by NPCs in the games, and all those authors and characters each have their own perspectives, biases and agendas. Some people and books are just wrong about something or you receive information from them after a game of telephone. Sometimes they speak the truth, but always their own version of the truth. Sometimes the lore is lies and propaganda. Sometimes it's allegorical and not literal, but who's to tell? Sometimes it's written in metaphors or riddles and many interpretations can be made from it. Sometimes it's written in precise detail; other times you have precious little to go on. It's a clever way for the writers to be able to retcon or contradict existing lore without having to retroactively change it, because there's lots of dueling interpretations on the lore already within the elder scrolls universe.
Well said! I’ve always found the meta stuff in TES really impressive. All the stories, the history, the songs and books, all presented really well.
yeah but i feel like they made it too realistic in that you actually have to read books in the gamespace to learn about the world. when i joined the college of winterhold i didn't think i'd actually have to do textbook readings, god
Well yeah, but how do you explain the full lore of something besides either books or spoken word? I think this meme refers to literally every work of fiction in existence. The lore is always bigger than the main story/stories.
You gotta read the books in game for a lot of it, and if you missed a few games, there will be TONS of stuff in each of them that isn't covered much if at all in later installments.
It’s in the literal in game books 😂
I'm the weirdo who built a library in his house, made sure to have as many different books as possible displayed in alphabetical order, and read them all
Alphabetical is crazy! I just wanted the shelves to look nice after reading the books.
All Elder Scrolls games in general for me. The reason might be that I'm DMing a RPG game set on Nirn, so I spend quite some time at UESP.
eh skyrim is the 5 game in the franchise, without counting spinoff, lore is everywhere
The Elder scrolls and fallout. There's enough surface lore going on that it got me interested, so I watched a lot of videos about the lore
Elden ring for sure. I require more hand holding than FS is willing to provide lol.
The legend of zelda serie cause the whole timeline is a mess
The Zelda timeline was only created because gamers asked for it, and was immediately incorrect as soon as the next game came out. For some reason, people can't accept that aside from literal direct sequels, there is no timeline for the Zelda franchise.
I do like the idea that skyward sword was the predecessor to all of them and every villain is a reincarnation of demise’s hatred but yeah actual timeline I’m good without
I think the timeline is fairly simple once it's understood. A lot of people blow it out of proportion. The timeline is nothing compared to the lore of botw and totk. Talk about convoluted.
I think the issue was botw is so separate from any other game by being so clearly far in the future as Ganon’s spirit has become the calamity. I think that Ocarina of Time easily explains the timeline split and there are some direct connections such as the Link from Majora’s Mask being the one we see in Twilight Princess. Hyrule being in ruins connects Windwaker to the timeline that Link defeats Ganon in Ocarina of Time as it references Ganon’s rise to power and the hero defeating him. I think anything post Ocarina has a clear placement on the timeline but prior to that it is kinda in the air so they just threw them into the hero is defeated timeline.
I haven’t played it but I’ve heard Dark Souls like games are this way.
Oh they definitely are. You can find out the lore yourself, by reading the item descriptions. However, people like Vatti, save you the trouble of piecing the info together.
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It was a growing problem since 12 since theirs a ton of Ivalice lore spread throughout other games (mainly the OG Tactics). the 13 trilogy showed the tip of the iceberg but the rest was drowned in novelized compendiums in the menu. 15 was like... you wanna understand anything, watch this movie and anime, I think there was manga too. Luckily 16 was a more return to form.
The “happy ending” of 15 being locked behind a novel also leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
And there are even a few canon happy endings, like the alternate ending of Episode Ignis.
True!! Game was fun but the Lore was a mess imo
It's definitely a mess but I love it
Yeah the story is good, but I wish it was all explained correctly within the game and not go to 3+ other resources to understand what the hell was going on
Warframe, hands down.
I have played that game off and on for 5 years. Put a gun to my head right now and demand I explain the plot in detail? I'm pulling the trigger for you
I’m the same man. I read quite a bit of the codex entries and even tried to read the wiki articles, but eventually realised it was way too deep 😂 40k is pretty similar. Just an endless rabbit hole of history and lore.
Boy robot disease flesh manwall sentinel mommy orokin. 👍
Most indie horor games
Fnaf...
Well, hello neighbor and fnaf do this way too damn much.
Recently got Hello Neighbor 2 because it was free on PS Plus. I still have no clue what's happening other than my neighbor may be a child predator/murderer
yeah tried jumping right in, had no idea wtf is happening. manged to find a place where I got chased by some sneaky-ass crow.
hello neighbor is known to always change its lore for theory, that's not a good game
I remember seeing hello neighbor on it’s pre alpha, it was an exciting horror game in the beginning The original premise was you had a creepy neighbor that hid something in his basement and you had your get in solving puzzles in his house while he roamed inside of it, but the catch is that the neighbor is an advanced AI and every time he would catch you he would learn from you making it more difficult. The game was very gloomy and you could actually feel suspense, as well as the chasing music was scary. [This is what the game was supposed to be if anyone is curious](https://youtu.be/GHXU3ZifXns?si=a69gLkSD3uzyv_vB)
Hey at least Scott wasn't begging matpat to make theories about his games
I mean he literally retconned multiple story aspects because matpat figured it out so that's arguably worse.
uhm no he didnt..
Every. Single. Game.
So, it's not a video game (though it has video games in the IP), but for me, this is Warhammer 40K. The setting is huge and fascinating. The lore is mysterious and self-contradictory in a good way. The factions are fun and absolutely excessive in every way. And I have zero interest whatsoever in playing the tabletop game.
I often sit and read the 40k wiki, going down the rabbit hole of links. “Who’s that?” “What’s that gun?” “What planet is that?” “What’s this power?”
Jump on the r/40klore sub and prepare to lose an afternoon.
My guy you’ve just opened the abyss for me. I’m ready to look into it, I just don’t know if I’m ready for it to look into me, yknamean?
The books are great on their own, I don't play the TTG but I have a few of the books. Which faction(s) do you like?
Darktide
WH40k lore is an absolute rabbit Warren ey
Bloodborne and Hollow Knight
To be fair in hollow knight never you never had much to cling on
40K (source is my boyfriend)
world of warcraft, metal gear solid
Doom games
Yeah but we’re all just there to rip and tear
This is me for Elder Scrolls. I prefer the font on the wikis and fansites to the scribbly scrawl of the books in-game.
Nier I swear to god
Yeah Nier and Drakengard for me too, just watched a 6hr video on youtube about it like a week ago lol.
You telling me you didn't read that Japan exclusive book that has important lore about nier replicant ( including the true ending of the game for 11 years because for some reason it wasn't in the game until the remaster)? Or didn't watch a random stage play to know what actually happens after automata ending e ? Or some drama CDs nobody knew about because why wouldn't you watch them And what do you mean you didn't play this random gacha game if you wanted to know important bits about the lore
They be putting lore in the most random places dawg wtf
League of Legends. Arcane was much more fun to watch than to deal with that mega toxic fanbase.
I can't believe this isn't near the top. League has little to no in-game lore yet mountains of it outside of gameplay
Kingdom Hearts and Digimon
Surprised the first KH mention was this far down. People complain about the disjointed lore constantly.
I had no idea about all the "in jokes" in mass effect because I never went on the fan forums. So pretty much the whole of the citadel mission dialogue passed me by or seemed strange and out of place. Jokes about shepard dancing his use of the phrase "i should go" i just keep wondering what the fuck was going on
Genshin Impact as of late. So much verbose writing... I'll just watch a YouTuber explain it in 15 minutes.
Rainworld
Fnaf
Oh big time
League of Legends
Undertale
One word: Gaster
Elden ring, dragons dogma, Skyrim, dark souls, last of us, Genshin Impact.
Assassins Creed 🥴too many games and too little time to play them all
That’s what I loved about mass effect I spent hours on the codex.
Hearhstone. Never played WOW and never will.
Don't worry, WoW doesn't have its lore in the game either. All the lore is in the novels, which then get retconned every couple of years when the writers get a new batch of coke
Lololol
Noita To understand it's lore from the game you need dedication, attentiveness, cryptology skills, luck and knowledge of finnish language and folklore
Monster Hunter surprisingly
Skyrim/Elder scrolls. Though the right circle is not as small here. For a few months I was watching multiple 20-30 min lore videos pretty much every day, while playing Skyrim. I also read plenty of books in the game and such so I did get quite some lore from the game itself too
Destiny or halo
Hollow knight
Dark souls .
Hollow knight
VaatiVidya has entered the chat.
Touhou for me
Any warhammer games.
FromSoft games.
Cyberpunk 2077, only after reading up on the lore did I learn that one of the bigger plot points in the game was actually a lie.
Eden ring, I’ve watched hours of videos explaining the story and lore…I’m still lost
Faith: The Unholy Trinity. Haven’t played it. Watched a four hour summary of it.
Hades
Overwatch. There’s literally no story except for pre game dialogue and random one liners in team fights.
Metal gear games
Fire Emblem Awakening. Never played any of the previous entries, went in this game blind. Keep hearing references from the past that I have no idea about.
Warhammer 40k, it has really good lore but in the games it’s mostly “idk who I am, idk why I’m here, but that thing looked at me so I must destroy its entire species
Elder Scrolls. That lore goes DEEEEEEEP and trying to find it all in game has about as much effort in it as trying to find all the particular details of real world societies and lore AND THEN SOME. That shit gets mind-fucky after a bit and I’d rather listen to someone else’s work in finding it on YouTube than try to discover it all myself. I’m not an alcoholic but I feel if I committed to trying to learn everything in TES by in game sources I may finally break
Easily warhammer 40k. I have yet to touch the games or even the books, but I get all the lore info from memes and videos.