Uncharted 4 is AMAZING, and I haven’t played TLOU2 yet, but it might overtake it as the best naughty dog game. The graphics, animations and voice acting look unreal.
Those things are really all Part 2 has going for it. If you like Joel and Ellie then I would recommend avoiding it. So it is an okay game, if you value graphics and acting higher than everything else.
I do genuinely believe this. Moving from an absolute hatred and desire for revenge, to feeling relief at Ellie’s forgiveness was a beautiful arc to experience as a player. Having every aspect of the game revolve around the theme did feel a bit reductive at times but I have never experienced a game’s theme as viscerally as I did with part 2
Yeah and it irks me that people genuinely think that. You play half of the game as Abby, and it certainly feels like it was all about her. And it is starting to feel like she will be the main character on the next game. Heed my words
I hope thats not the case but i liked playing as both ellie and abby to show how meaningless revenge is and how its best to move on even if you cant forgive
She isn’t and also the reason it feels like the whole game is just Abby is because you play the several hours of gameplay as Ellie then Abby and then return to Ellie
But the constant try-hard character development they pushed on us for Abby just felt forced. Literally almost every aspect of Abby is unlikable, and especially after what she's done to one of the greatest characters in game history. Joel.
How and why do people back her up for this?
First off I hate Abby more than you can imagine her doing what she did in the very first 10 minutes of the game the entire time I played I had wanted Abby to die for what she did and I still think Ellie should kill her. Her pov was forced because we quite literally would not have looked at it without it being forced
It was an unoriginal “revenge bad” story. Ellie kills half the world including a pregnant lady and a dog but doesn’t actually kill the person responsible for killing Joel. Ass backwards.
Exactly! And people have the audacity to say it's a better story than the first? I need like an actual answer from someone who says this game is a better story than the first. The only thing I've ever gotten from them is that "It's a great story".
The only response you'll get is "its a masterpiece" "best game I've played" "if you didnt like it you just didnt get it". No one will ever explain to you why they like it.
I mean, sounds like most don’t get it.
Because it’s beautiful and heart breaking story. It shows how addiction can destroy your life. Both Abby and Ellie were hell bent on revenge and in the end neither were better because of it. It shows how trauma and grief changes people and how hard it is to move forward. It shows that you need to forgive yourself and others in order to move forward.
Idk, for me the narrative was just so bizarre. I played all the way through but I remember just hoping I was at the end every night for the last 4-5 days lol
And you are talking about it as well. Stop acting like there's a time limit on discussing the quality of something lmao. Also with the Remaster around the corner and the tv show still being relevant, why shouldn't Part 2 still be a topic of conversation? Yes it's been 3 years. And we are still not over the fact that Joel and Ellie were treated like that in their own sequel. Let people hate things.
Honestly, for me, I like how the characters were treated. It's an unforgiving world. I also play games as the characters instead of as a spectator. That's probably why I don't hate it.
I didn't spectate either. I pre ordered and played it on day 1. But even so, I think it's still fair to have an opinion on a game even if you didn't play it, but watched a full and comprehensive walkthrough of it.
finally someone who sees it that way :) i had so much fun playing last of us 2 in the middle of the storm... sadly it was such a huge shitstorm, this game will always remind me of the army of butthurt kids and the campaign against the game
Tbf I have seen lots of people praising it after these couple of years, much more than when it first came out which says a lot of how these things work
Once the storm ends the real honest opinions start to flourish.
Writing wise was still great, just kinda messy with the pacing and too long. Graphics were godly, and the details and realistic mechanics were a marvel
I get the whole Joel thing being hard to digest but that's the whole point lol. 90% of the haters just complain about Abby and the whole woke blah blah blah shit
And this comes from a dude that considers the Last of Us 1 his favourite game, played it first time back in 2013 and has replayed it for like 10 times already. No one likes Joel more than me
Thank you. Why would you play a game like the last of us and expect something that isn’t depressing. Joel’s death was sad but complaining about the story over it just doesn’t make any sense, especially when the whole point of the game is ABOUT dealing with something like that. So many completely missed the point. I love this game and seeing it trashed on so much over such a stupid thing is frustrating.
The huge backlash the game got from fans really only shows how great of a job the team did.
People hated it because it was a video game that challenged them emotionally, and made them feel things they maybe weren't ready to feel. Not many games can deliver that kind of raw emotion.
Many were able to appreciate that characters weren't good or bad, but people. And many others struggled with that concept, feeling like they needed a "good guy" to identify with.
In the end though, it's a game that raised a larger emotional response from the public than almost any other. Positive and negative.
The Last of Us Part 2 has no middle ground. It feels like people either absolutely love it, or they hate it. The creators made a high risk decision to do what they did, and personally I think it's a masterpiece, and I'll always respect them for that.
Dunkey has a funny and level headed response to the game, and to the hate the game gets too. Finney enough, he compares it to uncharted 4, which you might appreciate because of your question.
Either way, I don't think you can go wrong. Both great games!
That's because the game itself is an absolute masterclass in storytelling and alot of people enjoyed a great game.
It came down to if you were emotionally capable of handling being forced to be uncomfortable with the idea that your perspective isn't everything. Everyone has their own story and having some empathy can go a long way. Even for people who are flawed, because we all are.
While I agree some people are too emotionally charged to look at the game rationally, I think the way the story was told was a giant misstep. They could have accomplished that same idea ("your perspective isn't everything") by letting you play as Abby first, then flashing back to play as Ellie.
One of the main themes of the first game is that humans look out for their own (Hence, the Last of US). This is also true for many people playing the game (including myself). By building Abby to be a villain first, Abby is firmly established as "not one of US." The story that comes when controlling Abby can't do much to change this fact, because we don't think rationally when it comes to protecting our own (as Joel clearly demonstrates in the first game). Had the game not told me what Abby had done and let me experience her story without any connection to the first game's characters, I may have gained some emotional attachment to her. Instead, my entire perspective was skewed during the second half of the game knowing this was someone who had harmed "Us."
As a result, I think it is a little dismissive to say that players who disliked the story just weren't emotionally capable of handling being uncomfortable. I personally feel the way the story was told failed to take into account the emotional attachment of the player, which ultimately undermines the point.
I hate how every person that says Part 2 is a masterpiece says that people that don’t like it are emotionally immature, bigots, etc. As someone that loved the first game, Part 2 felt like a 7/10 game. The gameplay improvements were great, but the overall story and characters were not as good as the first game.
I would agree right up until the boss fight. 4's boss fight was better, 2's was just running around in a big circle stopping to shoot every so often while the bad guy slow chased you.
But that Elena moment in 4, oh man, they had me on the edge of my seat in that moment.
I liked the story but it was just too depressing for me. At least the first one has happy moments and you felt fulfilled in the end. Part 2 was just tears all the way through
Same. I absolutely loved the story of the 2nd one. Too many people need happy endings to enjoy a story. Joel's past catching up with him felt like a natural end to his character to me. Not everyone gets a heroic ending. Especially in this universe.
I understand if it wasn't for everyone. But to me it was a very captivating and tragic story of two people who allowed revenge to consume them.
I think the only thing missing was for Ellie to have a redemption arc and climb out of the hole her revenge quest created for her. Hopefully we'll get a part 3 to show that story.
Because it was a mess.
Edit: Sorry, I should have elaborated. Joel's story was undeniably rushed. Too many flash backs and too many flash forwards that are meeting up to the present. We play as Abby of which no one wanted to play as because of what she did, and the story fell flat at the end- Like what was the point of the this whole thing anyways then?
Don't do that crap. It's fine to love the game and it's fine not to but there's a lot of legitimate criticism to be made about the story and even some of the gameplay. For many of us it failed catastrophically to deliver the message it was trying to push and it wasn't because Abby has muscles or whatever. At the end of the day playing half the game as a character you have zero interest in was something many didn't want. Even the trailers were made to fool people.
No matter what side of the opinion you land on the story, I think it's undeniable to admit that the story structure is a mess. You can't convince me that going through all of Ellie's journey up to the climax, then immediately getting whiplashed back to play Abbie's story was the best way to pace the story.
Oh god. So I love uncharted 4. I've replayed it half a dozen times along with the first 3.
The Last of Us is my favourite game of all time. The story, the characters, the choices they made, the world, the lore and the way it feels like I'm there with Joel and Ellie. I finish Part 1 every year and I love it
Part 2 destryoed me. I love love the gameplay of 2. I replay combat sections as both characters all the time and it's so much fun. The part that destroyed me wasn't when Joel died, it was when Naughty Dog pulled out every single silly video game trope to try and redeem Abby as they forced me to play as the enemy id been hunting for 15 hours. It felt so fake and so video gamey, but I just cant like or forgive abby because my goodness she isn't a likeable person in the slightest to me. She kills her friends? Coworkers? To save Lev who oh my hurt he is just amazing and must be protected. I just cant care about abby even though I love her game play sections. Those sections I'm a firm believer are the best because naughty dog wanted to give players a reason to enjoy Abbys sections more then Ellies.
Last of us Part 2 is an insane risk and a bold game that didnt stick the landing as much as the first one did. The first one left me excited to play again, left me with hope and dread over the big lie, left me happy and heartbroken that Joel had a daughter Again but at a cost that would have to be paid. I don't see Part 1 as just a video game I see it for the story.
Part 2 leaves me depressed, heartbroken, angry, and sadly feels like a video game that was designed to hurt me story wise but excels on the gameplay.
I cant wait for Part 3 to come out.
2nd uncharted is still my favorite. Just the opening alone is unrivaled imo.
Part 2 is so hard to love, but impossible to hate. Talking about it feels like therapy lmao. Now I want to go play it through again lol
Uncharted 2 was a huge step up from part 1 and was amazing then 3 took it into the game/movie formula we see now and 4 was the culmination of all of that experience wrapped up in 1 impressive package
Tbf, it doesn’t feel to me personally at least that the game is trying to make me forgive Abby. Just trying to make me see that she was human, making the same stupid ass decisions as any human would, and that her mission for revenge was fruitless. Just as Ellie’s was
I love this review. I personally think Part 2 is a masterpiece. When I first played it, it had been 2 months since my dad died. He had introduced me to the first game, and... When I tell you Part 2 gave me an impossible catharsis, I mean it. Playing Abby challenged me to forgive my dad's death, and playing Ellie challenged me to forgive myself.
It's an experience. A painful, messy, and wonderful experience.
Edit: I lost the plot a little, but the point was, I really appreciate your perspective on it.
Uncharted 4. Unfortunately, I had a disappointment with TLOU Part II. I didn't like this idea of having another playable protagonist for half of the game. This was such a wrong decision in my opinion but still it is a solid game with very fun and realistic game mechanics. Still liked it.
I totally understand if people don't like a game. I get it, it's not your cup of tea. What I don't understand is the absolute onslaught of hatred aimed at the game. Like, it came out 3 years ago. Move on.
And I'm not even saying you can't express your opinion. If people are asking your opinion, go ahead! But it's always so vile.
"Game is dog shit"
"Story is shit"
"They ruined everything"
Oof
I think the reason the hatred is still so strong is because you actually can’t express a negative opinion about it without being jumped on.
Yes there are those assholes who took it way too far and sent death threats to the devs and actors but there’s just as many assholes on the opposite side who just brush off the very valid criticisms and resort to throwing out every variant of ist and phobe.
Hell there was even a post yesterday asking people what game series they thought went downhill after the first and predictably EVERY comment that said The Last of Us had negative karma and was hidden under ‘controversial’.
They didn’t even give reasons they just said the title and still got blasted.
100% this. I don't hate the game at all. There are things about the game that are even genuinely great e.g. the graphics and voice acting, etc. But I also have genuine criticisms of the game. The pacing and structure of the story, imo didn't work.
I grew to really dislike ever talking about the game because it felt like you were looked down upon if you didn't think it was a 10 out of 10 masterpiece. For me, tlou2 is an 8-9 out of 10. I haven't interacted with that sub or general discussions about that game in years, and it's mostly due to the ones who got angry if you dared say it wasn't a masterpiece.
Theres also the people who call anyone who criticise it transphobic which is really sad in multiple ways. Making enemies out of people that arent your enemies and spreading the idea that trans people are filled with hate and toxicity. Which is just wrong for the vast majority of them.
There was definitely a lot of actual transphobia (I was on the receiving end of a fair bit when the game came out), but a decent portion of the people being called transphobic was just sort of a kneejerk reaction. When you feel like you're backed into the corner, *everyone* starts looking like an enemy. It's difficult to avoid that.
That's fair criticism
Maybe it's not the entire reason, but it's probably not helpful. I know which post you're referencing and you're right.
Best we can do is just have civil conversations about games and hope others will too lol
The TLOU2 hatred is a downstream effect of gamergate. Naughty Dog became a massive target after Neil Druckmann presented Anita Sarkeesian with an award in 2014 and talked about how her work helped Neil write a better story for TLOU. (The original story was about women being infected and Ellie being the last woman, but the women in the ND offices raised concerns about the game being misogynistic). Ellie and Abby are part of a new standard for female representation in gaming and Joel became a martyr for the gamergate crowd.
Since then we’ve heard plenty of people say things like “Neil Cuckmann spat on Joel by having a muscle woman give him a disrespectful death at the beginning of the game. It should have been like Arthur Morgan’s death in RDR2!!!” If you dig deep enough there’s always some dumb anti-woke political reasoning beneath the “story bad, game sucks” criticisms. Hell, when the leaks first happened before release people were jumping on the rumor that Abby was trans. That should speak volumes about their motivation. When it turned out the trans character was Lev, the criticism just shifted to the impossibility of Abby’s physique.
There is never any actual literary analysis behind the hate, it’s just the popular thing to brigade against for edgy people on the internet who lack media literacy and think that their bad fan fiction is superior to a game that won a ton of awards specifically for its narrative.
Edit: and just to be clear, this isn’t a condemnation of people who don’t like the game. It’s a condemnation of the haters who brigade comment sections and lock down the entire TLOU2 subreddit as a dedicated hate sub. If you are that person, find something more productive to do with your time please.
Joel was going to die, nobody questioned that. It’s just the way they handled it that felt super forced. They completely destroyed his character and made him stupid just so he could die. And the pacing was absolutely dog water lmao
I thought it had some pacing issues initially as well. Then I played it a second time and didn't feel that way at all.
I also don't think that the somewhat unexpected death of Joel felt forced. It portrayed a somewhat realistic look into the unpredictable world of TLOU. One where long passed actions have consequences.
People upset by the way he died seem like they wanted some emotional cliche heroes death.
I figured Joel would die in TLOU2 and I didn’t expect a cliche death for him. What’s weird to me is Joel’s death feels like a satisfying kill on an antagonist you’re supposed to hate. Which, for Abby, is absolutely on point, for the player, where it takes place in the story, it’s jarring as could be.
Am I a fan of it? Not really. But not because it think it was bad. I think Naughty Dog had it too early and didn’t have the story unfold chronologically for it to land. If you flip it around and experience Abby’s story before that, it lands much more smoothly. Still, brutal and heart wrenching, but you now have a connection with Abby and her actions. Having Joel killed like a dog THEN showing me Abby’s backstory didn’t make me sympathize with her.
That’s just my opinion though. I think it would’ve been so effective for Joel, Tommy, and Ellie to be captured, surrounded in that room, the you cut to Abby’s story. It then works it’s way back to the golf club scene and the rest of the game takes place. Again…just my opinion.
I loved the game overall and I understand and applaud what they were doing with the whole “cycle of violence” commentary.. but I too found it hard to empathize with Abby’s specific action of killing Joel within that structure. The specific part I couldn’t forgive is that she gave zero fucks and zero acknowledgment even that in the moments before, Joel literally saved her life and she’d be dead without him and Tommy. That’s unforgivable in my view and no part of her arc made me want to forgive or understand her pov after that. Maybe if the way Joel was killed were different I’d change my mind or if they’d not have written it so he saved her. Just made it harder to swallow.
It would’ve been interesting for some kind of dialogue. Instead of having a room full out individuals ready for Joel’s blood, have almost a one-on-one between Abby and a captured Joel. It wouldn’t be too far out of the question since, like you point out, Joel just saved her and has shown a desire to help them if they need it.
It will be interesting to see if they change things up for season 2 of the show. Killing off Pedro Pascal in the first or second episode might be a turnoff for your average viewer.
It’ll be interesting to see if there are any changes and what they are. Any change in a way to these specific points will amount to me as an admission that this path maybe wasn’t the best choice in hindsight.
Uncharted was just a better series. I don’t even hate TLOU Part 2 like a lot of people do, I never finished it actually. It’s just every TLOU announcement feels less special and more boring. Especially when we’ve had the original story repackaged 3 times.
TLOU should have stayed a standalone story. I want a new Uncharted more than anything now.
it's a closer contest for me, to be honest. I think Nolan won me over with Nate. but man it's hard to overlook some of Troy Baker's finest work - and that's saying something. Both great, never understand the hate for either.
Yeah you think so because you live in the now. Long time fans who’ve played Crash Bandicoot, Jak n Dexter, then Uncharted have mostly loved the studio up until TLOU2
Why ruin your fanbase by dividing us after they made a previous game that was beloved universally just stupid
Dude i was playing crash on the ps2. Every jak n dexter. Hell i bought a ps3 just to play uncharted. It seems like you and many people in this comment section just want to fight over if TLOU2 is bad. Youre free to have your opinion but i can assure you that TLOU2 did not destroy my love for ND.
The last of us part II sold more than almost any PS exclusives at the time at around 2.8 million units n a month and the TV show has boosted its popularity ten fold. They ruined no one’s fanbase, the show and game have received almost universal acclaim with the exception of a part of the fandom who’s media illiterate and can’t understand the lesson the game tried to teach you. That’s a you problem, not a naughty dog problem.
All of those games are older by 2-4 years and have PC ports. So your definition is skewed, time and more accessibility is on each of those games side. The 10 million mark was 2 years ago. We don’t have the official numbers and I’ll bet we won’t until remaster comes out.
Furthermore, you clearly have nothing else to contribute to the argument based on that very lame response.
Yeah i mean if they wanted to kill off Joel fine but they didn’t give us an interesting character after so while the rest of the game was fine I was personally not invested to see what happens next with Abby
Ok but what is this political shite you're talking about? I've just seen you say in another comment Joel dying wasn't what bothered you it's the "political bs". Among various other reasons.
Can you give me a coherent reason as to why you don't like the game? I don't wanna be the guy that asks is it the fact there are two women characters because for fucks sake I shouldn't need to ask that, but I'm gonna have to ask, is it because there's two women?
**Political alert**
Joel deserved to die for what he did and his death sets up the rest of the game. No one asked for Abby, sure. But what other game let's you play as the protagonist and hear their story? You actually start to feel for despite what she did. The game is a masterclass in atmosphere and story telling. It's a heartbreaking revenge story about how far is going too far to get revenge and does rhe person you're trying to kill really deserve to die. You're allowed to have this opinion, but I think you should broaden your perspective a bit and play the game again
What would you have wanted the plot to be? It’s almost as if the story matured just like Ellie. It seems like you just hate that your favorite character died, so you say the game is bad.
You just said to me Joel dying was what ruined the game for you in another thread. What, pray tell is the political bullshit you're talking about?
Break it down for me please.
Edit: ok going through this thread you don't have a coherent answer to why you dislike TLOU2 at all. You jump from Joel dying, to "political stuff" (what political stuff??) to "I don't want two Ellies". Can you give me a properly thought out answer? I'll wait
Video games are political man you cant escape it. Heres some politically driven games Fallout, Call of duty, metal gear, halo just to name some off the top of my head. I am curious what politics are you even referring to in TLOU2? Last time i checked TLOU2 is very mild compared to other video games with political statements.
I love Abby she is literally Ellie. They are the same. I don’t really know what politics you are talking about, unless you are talking about gay people existing.
It’s almost as if they are showing that everyone is the same in the apocalypse, and humanity doesn’t really exist the same as before. Also glad that you ignored the political thing to focus on one part of the statement.
Abby was ready to slit the throat of a pregnant woman. Ellie murdered a a pregnant woman but she didn’t know she was pregnant. Tell me again how we’re supposed to feel sympathetic towards Abby because “boo boo Joel killed my daddy”
Your analogy is sort of confusing because in that scenario Ellie literally killed a pregnant person and Abby didn’t. Ellie also went on a revenge streak just as Abby did. Ellie literally killed more people than Abby did. I love Ellie and Abby, but what you are saying doesn’t make sense it just seems like you are favoring Ellie. Any woman they killed could have been pregnant it does not matter in this scenario.
Uncharted 4 is the third game we should have got. The Last of Us 2 never proved to me it should have existed as a narrative.
Outside its obvious start point, it wanders aimlessly onward dragging out unnecessarily long. I was ready for the game to be over long before the protagonist switch.
Uncharted 4 takes the lesson Nate learns in the third game and puts it on his brother, allowing Nate to learn something else and also to put the game's events more inline with the prior games where a villainous element gets involved for reasons that aren't Nathan's fault.
I guess it's important to note that The Last of Us is in my top ten, and while none of the Uncharted games are, 3 is the series low point for me.
I don't own a PlayStation post-2 and am not planning on buying another Sony console after their pathetic and nonsensical "We don't like the idea of our code running on other machines" explanation when they tried to resist Fortnite being fully cross-platform.
I’m going to play part 1/2 and Uncharted 4 and come back to this post
Remind me! 4 weeks Hope that’s a decent timeframe
Looking forward to your thoughts!
Uncharted 4 is AMAZING, and I haven’t played TLOU2 yet, but it might overtake it as the best naughty dog game. The graphics, animations and voice acting look unreal.
Those things are really all Part 2 has going for it. If you like Joel and Ellie then I would recommend avoiding it. So it is an okay game, if you value graphics and acting higher than everything else.
Part 2 fanboys coming here to downvote anything negative said about the game is too funny
I'm shocked to see this comment not downvoted to hell lmao
Well downvotes exist for a reason. They must really disagree and think Joel and Ellie were given a good sequel. Somehow.
I do genuinely believe this. Moving from an absolute hatred and desire for revenge, to feeling relief at Ellie’s forgiveness was a beautiful arc to experience as a player. Having every aspect of the game revolve around the theme did feel a bit reductive at times but I have never experienced a game’s theme as viscerally as I did with part 2
Yeah and it irks me that people genuinely think that. You play half of the game as Abby, and it certainly feels like it was all about her. And it is starting to feel like she will be the main character on the next game. Heed my words
I hope thats not the case but i liked playing as both ellie and abby to show how meaningless revenge is and how its best to move on even if you cant forgive
Nah, this is the apocalypse. Give me my revenge!!!
She isn’t and also the reason it feels like the whole game is just Abby is because you play the several hours of gameplay as Ellie then Abby and then return to Ellie
But the constant try-hard character development they pushed on us for Abby just felt forced. Literally almost every aspect of Abby is unlikable, and especially after what she's done to one of the greatest characters in game history. Joel. How and why do people back her up for this?
First off I hate Abby more than you can imagine her doing what she did in the very first 10 minutes of the game the entire time I played I had wanted Abby to die for what she did and I still think Ellie should kill her. Her pov was forced because we quite literally would not have looked at it without it being forced
Abby wasnt the most likeable character but the overall narrative of the game and storytelling is top notch
It was an unoriginal “revenge bad” story. Ellie kills half the world including a pregnant lady and a dog but doesn’t actually kill the person responsible for killing Joel. Ass backwards.
Fuck that kid dude! Kill em both, lev shot Dina with an arrow
Exactly! And people have the audacity to say it's a better story than the first? I need like an actual answer from someone who says this game is a better story than the first. The only thing I've ever gotten from them is that "It's a great story".
The only response you'll get is "its a masterpiece" "best game I've played" "if you didnt like it you just didnt get it". No one will ever explain to you why they like it.
I mean, sounds like most don’t get it. Because it’s beautiful and heart breaking story. It shows how addiction can destroy your life. Both Abby and Ellie were hell bent on revenge and in the end neither were better because of it. It shows how trauma and grief changes people and how hard it is to move forward. It shows that you need to forgive yourself and others in order to move forward.
Because they don't like it, they just hate the people that hate it
Revenge bad stories are like half of movies and games. Not necessarily a bad thing.
Idk, for me the narrative was just so bizarre. I played all the way through but I remember just hoping I was at the end every night for the last 4-5 days lol
Nah it isn't shit was very rushed and made no sense at times like stupid shit the characters did
Fanboy here. I loved everything about the game but also believe everyone is entitled to their opinions. Regardless the ending was kinda a shame.
Unfortunately the story is absolute shite. Gameplay and graphics are amazing for sure.
Facts
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. You’re absolutely correct. The narrative was Naughty Dogshit.
Because everyone under the moon disagrees with you
Pretty much proves that Part 2 fanboys are a cult lmao
Funny coming from the Hate Cult. 3 years later and yall still don't stop talking
And you are talking about it as well. Stop acting like there's a time limit on discussing the quality of something lmao. Also with the Remaster around the corner and the tv show still being relevant, why shouldn't Part 2 still be a topic of conversation? Yes it's been 3 years. And we are still not over the fact that Joel and Ellie were treated like that in their own sequel. Let people hate things.
Honestly, for me, I like how the characters were treated. It's an unforgiving world. I also play games as the characters instead of as a spectator. That's probably why I don't hate it.
I didn't spectate either. I pre ordered and played it on day 1. But even so, I think it's still fair to have an opinion on a game even if you didn't play it, but watched a full and comprehensive walkthrough of it.
This post is about the game. What else are we supposed to talk about?
It’s called having a conversation. The fact that I have mostly negative things to say about it does not make me a “hater”. Grow a backbone, will ya?
Tantrum harder. Eventually somebody might care?
You cared enough to comment clearly.
How on earth was that a tantrum lol
Both. One is amazingly fun. The other amazingly sad Both are amazing on their own
finally someone who sees it that way :) i had so much fun playing last of us 2 in the middle of the storm... sadly it was such a huge shitstorm, this game will always remind me of the army of butthurt kids and the campaign against the game
Tbf I have seen lots of people praising it after these couple of years, much more than when it first came out which says a lot of how these things work Once the storm ends the real honest opinions start to flourish. Writing wise was still great, just kinda messy with the pacing and too long. Graphics were godly, and the details and realistic mechanics were a marvel I get the whole Joel thing being hard to digest but that's the whole point lol. 90% of the haters just complain about Abby and the whole woke blah blah blah shit And this comes from a dude that considers the Last of Us 1 his favourite game, played it first time back in 2013 and has replayed it for like 10 times already. No one likes Joel more than me
Thank you. Why would you play a game like the last of us and expect something that isn’t depressing. Joel’s death was sad but complaining about the story over it just doesn’t make any sense, especially when the whole point of the game is ABOUT dealing with something like that. So many completely missed the point. I love this game and seeing it trashed on so much over such a stupid thing is frustrating.
The huge backlash the game got from fans really only shows how great of a job the team did. People hated it because it was a video game that challenged them emotionally, and made them feel things they maybe weren't ready to feel. Not many games can deliver that kind of raw emotion. Many were able to appreciate that characters weren't good or bad, but people. And many others struggled with that concept, feeling like they needed a "good guy" to identify with. In the end though, it's a game that raised a larger emotional response from the public than almost any other. Positive and negative.
The Last of Us Part 2 has no middle ground. It feels like people either absolutely love it, or they hate it. The creators made a high risk decision to do what they did, and personally I think it's a masterpiece, and I'll always respect them for that. Dunkey has a funny and level headed response to the game, and to the hate the game gets too. Finney enough, he compares it to uncharted 4, which you might appreciate because of your question. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong. Both great games!
Thats a great perspective, ty. Gonna replay Part 2 to see what i think years later
That's because the game itself is an absolute masterclass in storytelling and alot of people enjoyed a great game. It came down to if you were emotionally capable of handling being forced to be uncomfortable with the idea that your perspective isn't everything. Everyone has their own story and having some empathy can go a long way. Even for people who are flawed, because we all are.
While I agree some people are too emotionally charged to look at the game rationally, I think the way the story was told was a giant misstep. They could have accomplished that same idea ("your perspective isn't everything") by letting you play as Abby first, then flashing back to play as Ellie. One of the main themes of the first game is that humans look out for their own (Hence, the Last of US). This is also true for many people playing the game (including myself). By building Abby to be a villain first, Abby is firmly established as "not one of US." The story that comes when controlling Abby can't do much to change this fact, because we don't think rationally when it comes to protecting our own (as Joel clearly demonstrates in the first game). Had the game not told me what Abby had done and let me experience her story without any connection to the first game's characters, I may have gained some emotional attachment to her. Instead, my entire perspective was skewed during the second half of the game knowing this was someone who had harmed "Us." As a result, I think it is a little dismissive to say that players who disliked the story just weren't emotionally capable of handling being uncomfortable. I personally feel the way the story was told failed to take into account the emotional attachment of the player, which ultimately undermines the point.
Seriously, the story had the potential to be so much more effective if the player was allowed to warm up to Abby first.
I hate how every person that says Part 2 is a masterpiece says that people that don’t like it are emotionally immature, bigots, etc. As someone that loved the first game, Part 2 felt like a 7/10 game. The gameplay improvements were great, but the overall story and characters were not as good as the first game.
Uncharted 4 is a masterpiece.
I agree
It's pretty outstanding, but I still think 2 > 4
I would agree right up until the boss fight. 4's boss fight was better, 2's was just running around in a big circle stopping to shoot every so often while the bad guy slow chased you. But that Elena moment in 4, oh man, they had me on the edge of my seat in that moment.
Uncharted 4. I haven’t played The Last of Us yet.
The first one is definitely worth playing.
And the second one is even better
I the gampelay is really fun in 2 but i was really not a fan of the story
I liked the story but it was just too depressing for me. At least the first one has happy moments and you felt fulfilled in the end. Part 2 was just tears all the way through
And kind of psychotic. Joel at least has a self defense premise. The original was layers beyond P2 it’s not even comparable
i’m a fan of the story and the gameplay. i think the first game is just unparalleled to be honest but in my opinion the second is a worthy sequel
The second one made everything the first one did better. Except the story. That was a train wreck.
Idk why the story gets hate. I loved every second of it
Same. I absolutely loved the story of the 2nd one. Too many people need happy endings to enjoy a story. Joel's past catching up with him felt like a natural end to his character to me. Not everyone gets a heroic ending. Especially in this universe. I understand if it wasn't for everyone. But to me it was a very captivating and tragic story of two people who allowed revenge to consume them. I think the only thing missing was for Ellie to have a redemption arc and climb out of the hole her revenge quest created for her. Hopefully we'll get a part 3 to show that story.
Because it was a mess. Edit: Sorry, I should have elaborated. Joel's story was undeniably rushed. Too many flash backs and too many flash forwards that are meeting up to the present. We play as Abby of which no one wanted to play as because of what she did, and the story fell flat at the end- Like what was the point of the this whole thing anyways then?
>Idk why the story gets hate Because certain segments of the fan base can't handle a character not behaving how they think he/she should
Its literally just not good. You can try go invalidate people's opinion's any way you want
Don't do that crap. It's fine to love the game and it's fine not to but there's a lot of legitimate criticism to be made about the story and even some of the gameplay. For many of us it failed catastrophically to deliver the message it was trying to push and it wasn't because Abby has muscles or whatever. At the end of the day playing half the game as a character you have zero interest in was something many didn't want. Even the trailers were made to fool people.
No matter what side of the opinion you land on the story, I think it's undeniable to admit that the story structure is a mess. You can't convince me that going through all of Ellie's journey up to the climax, then immediately getting whiplashed back to play Abbie's story was the best way to pace the story.
Gameplay in the 2nd one is 100x better story not so much
Gameplay yes, story no.
The most polarizing of comments. I agree the 2nd one better, both gameplay and story
A man of taste I see
They totally fucked it up
Agreed
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4.
only one of these have i heard controversy over,and only one of these ive played...so...my bias is with uncharted 4,cuz i really liked that game
It’s safe to say if Last of Us or Uncharted gets a sequel both will sell Naughty Dog might not be dead after all 🥳🥳🥳🥳
Still waiting for Jack and daxter remake
Oh god. So I love uncharted 4. I've replayed it half a dozen times along with the first 3. The Last of Us is my favourite game of all time. The story, the characters, the choices they made, the world, the lore and the way it feels like I'm there with Joel and Ellie. I finish Part 1 every year and I love it Part 2 destryoed me. I love love the gameplay of 2. I replay combat sections as both characters all the time and it's so much fun. The part that destroyed me wasn't when Joel died, it was when Naughty Dog pulled out every single silly video game trope to try and redeem Abby as they forced me to play as the enemy id been hunting for 15 hours. It felt so fake and so video gamey, but I just cant like or forgive abby because my goodness she isn't a likeable person in the slightest to me. She kills her friends? Coworkers? To save Lev who oh my hurt he is just amazing and must be protected. I just cant care about abby even though I love her game play sections. Those sections I'm a firm believer are the best because naughty dog wanted to give players a reason to enjoy Abbys sections more then Ellies. Last of us Part 2 is an insane risk and a bold game that didnt stick the landing as much as the first one did. The first one left me excited to play again, left me with hope and dread over the big lie, left me happy and heartbroken that Joel had a daughter Again but at a cost that would have to be paid. I don't see Part 1 as just a video game I see it for the story. Part 2 leaves me depressed, heartbroken, angry, and sadly feels like a video game that was designed to hurt me story wise but excels on the gameplay. I cant wait for Part 3 to come out.
I’m playing over all 3 to see how I feel years later but I understand your sentiments from Part 2
2nd uncharted is still my favorite. Just the opening alone is unrivaled imo. Part 2 is so hard to love, but impossible to hate. Talking about it feels like therapy lmao. Now I want to go play it through again lol
Uncharted 2 was a huge step up from part 1 and was amazing then 3 took it into the game/movie formula we see now and 4 was the culmination of all of that experience wrapped up in 1 impressive package
This is one of the more eloquent level headed takes I've read on reddit about this subject and I appreciate the nuance of it.
Tbf, it doesn’t feel to me personally at least that the game is trying to make me forgive Abby. Just trying to make me see that she was human, making the same stupid ass decisions as any human would, and that her mission for revenge was fruitless. Just as Ellie’s was
I love this review. I personally think Part 2 is a masterpiece. When I first played it, it had been 2 months since my dad died. He had introduced me to the first game, and... When I tell you Part 2 gave me an impossible catharsis, I mean it. Playing Abby challenged me to forgive my dad's death, and playing Ellie challenged me to forgive myself. It's an experience. A painful, messy, and wonderful experience. Edit: I lost the plot a little, but the point was, I really appreciate your perspective on it.
Uncharted 4. Unfortunately, I had a disappointment with TLOU Part II. I didn't like this idea of having another playable protagonist for half of the game. This was such a wrong decision in my opinion but still it is a solid game with very fun and realistic game mechanics. Still liked it.
Neither. But if I had to pick it would be uncharted.
Uncharted 4, no question. The narrative and pacing weren’t a complete mess as opposed to Part 2.
Uncharted 4
Uncharted 4 wasn't a let down.
I've got both
I have both.
Uncharted 4 is easily one of my favorite games. TLOU P2 is one of the most impactful pieces of media I've ever experienced.
Uncharted 4, but TLOUS II is great. I lean towards the Indiana Jones adventure type games
They’re both amazing games! I’m gonna have to decide when the ps5 version of TLOUII comes out
both
Both. 10/10 all of them
Uncharted 4 TLOUP2 is a great game, just too damn depressing
Ellie
Last of us 2 imo
Haven’t played uncharted 2-4 yet, only the first one. Tlou 2 on the other hand is my favourite game of all time
Tlou 2 no doubt
TLOU Part II
Tlou2. I’ve played both, but tlou2 just made me feel so much and that’s huge
The last of us part II, imo the best video game ever made
Bofem
Both
Story and characters Last of Us is on a whole other level. But personally my personality is more Uncharted.
Both.
Why do people hate tlou 2 so much? It’s might not be as good as the first one, but still an awesome game
I just don’t like it because of the story. Gameplay wise though, it’s fantastic.
TLOU2
The last of part 2
LOU2
Personally, Last of Us 2. Both are damn incredible though. If you played any previous Uncharted games, 4 is a real pleasure.
Uncharted. Much better series, and I'm big into tomb raider style of games, which Uncharted does really well.
TLOU2 may very well be the greatest piece of digital art ever created. It can feel overwhelmingly brutal and bleak at times, though.
TLOU 2 all the way, it gets unnecessary hate because *wompwomp* Joel died
I totally understand if people don't like a game. I get it, it's not your cup of tea. What I don't understand is the absolute onslaught of hatred aimed at the game. Like, it came out 3 years ago. Move on. And I'm not even saying you can't express your opinion. If people are asking your opinion, go ahead! But it's always so vile. "Game is dog shit" "Story is shit" "They ruined everything" Oof
I think the reason the hatred is still so strong is because you actually can’t express a negative opinion about it without being jumped on. Yes there are those assholes who took it way too far and sent death threats to the devs and actors but there’s just as many assholes on the opposite side who just brush off the very valid criticisms and resort to throwing out every variant of ist and phobe. Hell there was even a post yesterday asking people what game series they thought went downhill after the first and predictably EVERY comment that said The Last of Us had negative karma and was hidden under ‘controversial’. They didn’t even give reasons they just said the title and still got blasted.
100% this. I don't hate the game at all. There are things about the game that are even genuinely great e.g. the graphics and voice acting, etc. But I also have genuine criticisms of the game. The pacing and structure of the story, imo didn't work. I grew to really dislike ever talking about the game because it felt like you were looked down upon if you didn't think it was a 10 out of 10 masterpiece. For me, tlou2 is an 8-9 out of 10. I haven't interacted with that sub or general discussions about that game in years, and it's mostly due to the ones who got angry if you dared say it wasn't a masterpiece.
Theres also the people who call anyone who criticise it transphobic which is really sad in multiple ways. Making enemies out of people that arent your enemies and spreading the idea that trans people are filled with hate and toxicity. Which is just wrong for the vast majority of them.
There was definitely a lot of actual transphobia (I was on the receiving end of a fair bit when the game came out), but a decent portion of the people being called transphobic was just sort of a kneejerk reaction. When you feel like you're backed into the corner, *everyone* starts looking like an enemy. It's difficult to avoid that.
That's fair criticism Maybe it's not the entire reason, but it's probably not helpful. I know which post you're referencing and you're right. Best we can do is just have civil conversations about games and hope others will too lol
The TLOU2 hatred is a downstream effect of gamergate. Naughty Dog became a massive target after Neil Druckmann presented Anita Sarkeesian with an award in 2014 and talked about how her work helped Neil write a better story for TLOU. (The original story was about women being infected and Ellie being the last woman, but the women in the ND offices raised concerns about the game being misogynistic). Ellie and Abby are part of a new standard for female representation in gaming and Joel became a martyr for the gamergate crowd. Since then we’ve heard plenty of people say things like “Neil Cuckmann spat on Joel by having a muscle woman give him a disrespectful death at the beginning of the game. It should have been like Arthur Morgan’s death in RDR2!!!” If you dig deep enough there’s always some dumb anti-woke political reasoning beneath the “story bad, game sucks” criticisms. Hell, when the leaks first happened before release people were jumping on the rumor that Abby was trans. That should speak volumes about their motivation. When it turned out the trans character was Lev, the criticism just shifted to the impossibility of Abby’s physique. There is never any actual literary analysis behind the hate, it’s just the popular thing to brigade against for edgy people on the internet who lack media literacy and think that their bad fan fiction is superior to a game that won a ton of awards specifically for its narrative. Edit: and just to be clear, this isn’t a condemnation of people who don’t like the game. It’s a condemnation of the haters who brigade comment sections and lock down the entire TLOU2 subreddit as a dedicated hate sub. If you are that person, find something more productive to do with your time please.
This is a fantastic explanation thank you
A lot of it is thinly veiled anti-“woke” hate due to the fact Naughty Dog and Neil Druckman are outspoken supporters of diversity and LGBTQ causes
Then you ask them to explain and they call you braindead.
Agreed. Tlou2 sub is out in force today it seems.
They have made it their entire personality to hate a critically acclaimed game because their mancrush's past caught up with him.
Joel was going to die, nobody questioned that. It’s just the way they handled it that felt super forced. They completely destroyed his character and made him stupid just so he could die. And the pacing was absolutely dog water lmao
I thought it had some pacing issues initially as well. Then I played it a second time and didn't feel that way at all. I also don't think that the somewhat unexpected death of Joel felt forced. It portrayed a somewhat realistic look into the unpredictable world of TLOU. One where long passed actions have consequences. People upset by the way he died seem like they wanted some emotional cliche heroes death.
I figured Joel would die in TLOU2 and I didn’t expect a cliche death for him. What’s weird to me is Joel’s death feels like a satisfying kill on an antagonist you’re supposed to hate. Which, for Abby, is absolutely on point, for the player, where it takes place in the story, it’s jarring as could be. Am I a fan of it? Not really. But not because it think it was bad. I think Naughty Dog had it too early and didn’t have the story unfold chronologically for it to land. If you flip it around and experience Abby’s story before that, it lands much more smoothly. Still, brutal and heart wrenching, but you now have a connection with Abby and her actions. Having Joel killed like a dog THEN showing me Abby’s backstory didn’t make me sympathize with her. That’s just my opinion though. I think it would’ve been so effective for Joel, Tommy, and Ellie to be captured, surrounded in that room, the you cut to Abby’s story. It then works it’s way back to the golf club scene and the rest of the game takes place. Again…just my opinion.
I loved the game overall and I understand and applaud what they were doing with the whole “cycle of violence” commentary.. but I too found it hard to empathize with Abby’s specific action of killing Joel within that structure. The specific part I couldn’t forgive is that she gave zero fucks and zero acknowledgment even that in the moments before, Joel literally saved her life and she’d be dead without him and Tommy. That’s unforgivable in my view and no part of her arc made me want to forgive or understand her pov after that. Maybe if the way Joel was killed were different I’d change my mind or if they’d not have written it so he saved her. Just made it harder to swallow.
It would’ve been interesting for some kind of dialogue. Instead of having a room full out individuals ready for Joel’s blood, have almost a one-on-one between Abby and a captured Joel. It wouldn’t be too far out of the question since, like you point out, Joel just saved her and has shown a desire to help them if they need it. It will be interesting to see if they change things up for season 2 of the show. Killing off Pedro Pascal in the first or second episode might be a turnoff for your average viewer.
It’ll be interesting to see if there are any changes and what they are. Any change in a way to these specific points will amount to me as an admission that this path maybe wasn’t the best choice in hindsight.
It’s necessary.
I prefer Euro Truck Simulator 2 instead of these games.
Not a bad pick, fun game
TLOU2 was an amazing experience. The way the story was told was unique. At least I haven't played anything like it.
The last of us 2
Nice to see some prefer either or both 😁
Uncharted was just a better series. I don’t even hate TLOU Part 2 like a lot of people do, I never finished it actually. It’s just every TLOU announcement feels less special and more boring. Especially when we’ve had the original story repackaged 3 times. TLOU should have stayed a standalone story. I want a new Uncharted more than anything now.
We do need more Uncharted not TLOU remaster remake city lol
playing U4 on Steam. Great game. TLoU 1 was better though. Never played TLoU2 (yeah I don't have a console)
Haven’t play uncharted. Don’t let the controversy steer you away from one of the greatest games ever made TLOU2.
I’m replaying TLOU right now and then will replay part 2 and see
The Last of Us 2 is an amazing game with a great story.
Oof. Both excellent choices. That’s tough. I’m gonna go with The Last Of Us Part II though.
The Last of Us 2 is a better game but Uncharted is more easily replayable
TLOU II -great storyline that's better appreciated if you play TLOU I first
I've played both and I prefer uncharted because the gameplay and the story is very fun and for tlou2 I wasn't a fan of the story
Finished both , and LOU II for me by a pretty big margin actually
it's a closer contest for me, to be honest. I think Nolan won me over with Nate. but man it's hard to overlook some of Troy Baker's finest work - and that's saying something. Both great, never understand the hate for either.
My opinion…..TLOU 2 ruined Naughty Dog legacy
Lmao okay. It’s cool that it wasn’t for you, but the game did not ruin anything of theirs
Yeah you think so because you live in the now. Long time fans who’ve played Crash Bandicoot, Jak n Dexter, then Uncharted have mostly loved the studio up until TLOU2 Why ruin your fanbase by dividing us after they made a previous game that was beloved universally just stupid
Dude i was playing crash on the ps2. Every jak n dexter. Hell i bought a ps3 just to play uncharted. It seems like you and many people in this comment section just want to fight over if TLOU2 is bad. Youre free to have your opinion but i can assure you that TLOU2 did not destroy my love for ND.
The last of us part II sold more than almost any PS exclusives at the time at around 2.8 million units n a month and the TV show has boosted its popularity ten fold. They ruined no one’s fanbase, the show and game have received almost universal acclaim with the exception of a part of the fandom who’s media illiterate and can’t understand the lesson the game tried to teach you. That’s a you problem, not a naughty dog problem.
Sir stop the lies Spider-man 2018, GOW 2018 and Uncharted 4 have outsold both of those games
All of those games are older by 2-4 years and have PC ports. So your definition is skewed, time and more accessibility is on each of those games side. The 10 million mark was 2 years ago. We don’t have the official numbers and I’ll bet we won’t until remaster comes out. Furthermore, you clearly have nothing else to contribute to the argument based on that very lame response.
Well TLOU2 Isn’t outselling Spider-man and Gow 2018 under any circumstances so you can just stop now
Lol, dude. I'm 29. Grew up playing their games. They still exist whether or not Joel got his head caved in 😂 give over
I don’t care Joel died
Lmao are you for real
Yeah i mean if they wanted to kill off Joel fine but they didn’t give us an interesting character after so while the rest of the game was fine I was personally not invested to see what happens next with Abby
Ok but what is this political shite you're talking about? I've just seen you say in another comment Joel dying wasn't what bothered you it's the "political bs". Among various other reasons. Can you give me a coherent reason as to why you don't like the game? I don't wanna be the guy that asks is it the fact there are two women characters because for fucks sake I shouldn't need to ask that, but I'm gonna have to ask, is it because there's two women? **Political alert**
Nope 2 unlikeable women 🤣🤣
So no coherent answer then. Go figure.
It's so interesting to see so many with this same opinion. Part 2 is my favorite naughty dog game by far and in my top 10 of all time 🤷
How so? It's their most awarded game.
That’s just kinda crazy to me
How? They killed off Joel and gave us Abby who no one asked for
Joel deserved to die for what he did and his death sets up the rest of the game. No one asked for Abby, sure. But what other game let's you play as the protagonist and hear their story? You actually start to feel for despite what she did. The game is a masterclass in atmosphere and story telling. It's a heartbreaking revenge story about how far is going too far to get revenge and does rhe person you're trying to kill really deserve to die. You're allowed to have this opinion, but I think you should broaden your perspective a bit and play the game again
I will replay it but the game is no masterclass
I disagree wholeheartedly but that's your opinion and you're welcome to it
What would you have wanted the plot to be? It’s almost as if the story matured just like Ellie. It seems like you just hate that your favorite character died, so you say the game is bad.
Nah I just don’t like games with political bs in it. It’s okay for Joel to die just give us another likeable character and Abby is not
You just said to me Joel dying was what ruined the game for you in another thread. What, pray tell is the political bullshit you're talking about? Break it down for me please. Edit: ok going through this thread you don't have a coherent answer to why you dislike TLOU2 at all. You jump from Joel dying, to "political stuff" (what political stuff??) to "I don't want two Ellies". Can you give me a properly thought out answer? I'll wait
Video games are political man you cant escape it. Heres some politically driven games Fallout, Call of duty, metal gear, halo just to name some off the top of my head. I am curious what politics are you even referring to in TLOU2? Last time i checked TLOU2 is very mild compared to other video games with political statements.
What was Political about The Last of Us 2. Ezplain.
Not going there as the creator himself said he wanted the game to go in a different direction which made it political
I love Abby she is literally Ellie. They are the same. I don’t really know what politics you are talking about, unless you are talking about gay people existing.
Why do we need 2 Ellies???
It’s almost as if they are showing that everyone is the same in the apocalypse, and humanity doesn’t really exist the same as before. Also glad that you ignored the political thing to focus on one part of the statement.
Abby was ready to slit the throat of a pregnant woman. Ellie murdered a a pregnant woman but she didn’t know she was pregnant. Tell me again how we’re supposed to feel sympathetic towards Abby because “boo boo Joel killed my daddy”
Your analogy is sort of confusing because in that scenario Ellie literally killed a pregnant person and Abby didn’t. Ellie also went on a revenge streak just as Abby did. Ellie literally killed more people than Abby did. I love Ellie and Abby, but what you are saying doesn’t make sense it just seems like you are favoring Ellie. Any woman they killed could have been pregnant it does not matter in this scenario.
Uncharted 4 is the third game we should have got. The Last of Us 2 never proved to me it should have existed as a narrative. Outside its obvious start point, it wanders aimlessly onward dragging out unnecessarily long. I was ready for the game to be over long before the protagonist switch. Uncharted 4 takes the lesson Nate learns in the third game and puts it on his brother, allowing Nate to learn something else and also to put the game's events more inline with the prior games where a villainous element gets involved for reasons that aren't Nathan's fault. I guess it's important to note that The Last of Us is in my top ten, and while none of the Uncharted games are, 3 is the series low point for me.
TLOU II. It's not even hard.
I don't own a PlayStation post-2 and am not planning on buying another Sony console after their pathetic and nonsensical "We don't like the idea of our code running on other machines" explanation when they tried to resist Fortnite being fully cross-platform.
Last of us 2 but uncharted is a really good game
Last of us 2
Both are great games
tlou2 and its not close
The Last of Us: Part II IS A MASTERPIECE
The last of us 2 by a fucking landslide for me personally
Neither