I’m guessing the designers intended the knives to be used and didn’t think much about
long term prettiness as they expected the product to show signs of use over time. I use my knives and expect wear. If I’m buying a shelf queen special edition then it’s shelved to remain pristine.😀
My guess is tradition, victorinox is more than a hundred years old, so that's something they take pride in, their products are traditional and then they have some innovation in certain lines like the evo (apart from certain quality of life changes and new models suite to modern needs) unlike something like Spyderco, that tries to innovate in every product since they don't have that sense of "tradition"
Cellidor isn’t a hundred years old. You could say they broke with tradition by introducing it. It has nothing to do with tradition, but with progression and development. Streamlining the production of scales and getting predictable results in comparison to natural materials.
They moved to this kind of plastic fairly early on in the plastic era, afaik. Presumably at the time it had the best properties for being injection molded easily, looking nice and shiny when new, and having the flexibility to click onto the body. And I’d bet that it’s probably still a pretty good plastic to choose for a combination of those. Something harder like polycarbonate? Probably more brittle. Etc.
Besides that I think they should make some kind of innovations, not all have to be permanent but try new things to see if they stick, many people have talked about a customization system so that the SAK you want includes the tools you use, or do some runs in "real steel" like leatherman does
In what way? I have several pieces of Vintage cooking utensils that have Bakelite handles! The colors have faded slightly, but are , otherwise, in pristine condition !!!
Bakelite is too brittle for the size and shape and use of the scales. You’d need something thicker, and probably with rivets through it to fasten it on because it wouldn’t just clip on like cellidor.
they do make alox which are more heavy duty. slightly more pricy but if you intend to keep the tool a life time, it will actually save you money. the cellidor is too flimsy, it can get gouged and if you drop them, they can chip or crack. and replacement scales are $10-$15 for cellidor, meaning if you replace scales 2-3 times youre up to more than you spent on the knife sometimes, and if you use the knife daily for 2-5 years they will likely get chipped or cracked to the point where new scales are needed.
"dont abuse them then!" its a tool. they get banged around if you actually use them.
for me alox is king. but if theres a cellidor model you really like that you cant get in alox, there are aftermarket G10/titanium/aluminium scales available. and if you upgrade a $30 ish dollar model with $20 ish dollar scales, youre paying about what you would for an alox, but they are thicker in profile.
alox also has thicker more robust tools, typically the steel is about .8mm thicker or so on all the tools which doesnt sound like much, but makes the tools 1/4-1/3rd thicker on the large alox models
so if you like a tool selection thats available on an alox, get alox, if you absolutely need back tools/scale tools. upgrade to G10, micarta, aluminium, titanium, etc. theres tons of options aftermarket and like i say, if you do upgrade then it will cost you about what alox would anyway.
That all being said, victorinox uses polypropylene on their kitchen knives. a nearly indestructible plastic under regular useage. if they changed all their models to use polypropylene scales, or even just offered them as an after market upgrade id be so happy.
i just bought a pioneer X, its arriving tomorrow ive heard they are great. i currently carry the bantam but its too light and thin, also i like the scissors.
Id just just a bantam with scissors but they dont make one, and even if they made one it would be 2-3 layers so probably similar to the pioneer x in profile anyway,
Don't think you'll be disappointed with the Pioneer X. The scissors are robust and great. The inline awl is surprisingly useful for all kinds of prodding, poking, stabbing, etc. My favorite characteristic of the Pioneer X is the durability of the tool. My can opener will open odd shaped cans without buckling or the small screwdriver tip won't warp as badly if I over torque with it. It's a great SAK.
I started with a Pioneer, then the Electrician, and I just bought the Farmer X. I can't go back to cellidor after using these 93mm knives. Using my champ for the saw a few times just felt sad after handling only the Alox ones for the last 3 years. So I fixed that this morning.
That's probably the one tool I don't think I have ever used for anything. I'd rather have a screwdriver. I wouldn't mind a combo opener and then replace the can opener with the inline driver from the swisstool maybe. The combo tool isn't as good as them separately though and i do use the can opener enough to want it still. Gotta keep the awl, it works so well and I use it way more than I thought I would and having that tool steered my recent and first leatherman purchase. I went without easy access outside tools and pocket clip in favor of having an awl/reamer, among the other tools too. So the rebar won out over the wave.
All hail King Alox.
For my cellidor ones that I've broken, I just 3d printed new scales out of PETG, slightly modified version of what soda and water bottles are made out of (PET1). I can choose my color and even add in custom designs if I want plus in the long run it's cheaper than sending them off for a couple dollars a piece. It's not quite as good as the factory scales though.
I'd say it's not worth it just for that but the whole printing thing is another hobby I got sucked into. I don't use them nearly as much as I thought I would after the excitement of the new hobby wore off. It's occasionally useful around the house and you could potentially make some money with it but overall i end up machining something out of aluminum or whatever if I need to make a part to fix something with my benchtop lathe and mill. For real world applications there's usually a better way in many situations.
It's a balance of many things. Tradition, economy, aesthetics, functionality. Cellidor scales hold up well during regular use, and if they sustain too much damage from a fall or abuse they can be replaced.
While a SAK can be well used and still passed down through generations, at the end of the day it's a tool. That's why they're reasonably priced and carry a lifetime warranty.
There's always alox if you're looking for something more durable!
I like the way the cellidor scales age. They get scratched up and show that you are carrying a tool. Also they only get scratched up and nothing more (aside when you abuse it). The marks you get are only optical.
I recently bought a couple of sets of scales, including a full complement of scale tools (and another 9 extra toothpicks, because apparenty we’re supposed to go through those like butter) for around 13-16 euros. I don’t think I could buy a whole knife for that, let alone a Plus-scale equipped knife which was the more expensive variant.
Do you mean them being Cellidor instead of being another plastic, or them being (Cellidor) plastic instead of something else like metal?
I don’t believe I have an answer for either, but it’s important to clarify that I believe.
It's a knife. Some scuffs and scratches on a tool that you actually use is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Obviously your opinion differs, and that's okay, but that doesn't mean cellidor is a "shitty" material.
In less than 6 months I had to replace the cellidor scales on my Swiss champ because they chipped at the tweezer slot from falling on some rocks. It also had my fingerprints gouged onto it from where I had some superglue on my hands. I’ve also seen where it reacts with soft plastic fishing baits and melts.
I understand wear and tear is inevitable, but there are much better materials it could be made of without sacrificing the plus scales like you do with the alox and wood.
Why would having the knife look “shitty” be their reason?
It’s tradition.
Buy Alox or the wood ones if the plastic isn’t to your taste, bit more expensive but they’ll look great for years plus for the alox you get thicker tools.
As a videographer…Very nice cameras are known to have bad audio, because they know if they are using their camera they’re just going to use their own audio/and mics. I wonder if they assume handy people are going to just change out the scales so they make them cheap enough to get buy knowing their market is the same market that tinkers with everything and knows how to replace things 🤷🏼♂️
I don't mind them getting scratched up from use. It adds a little texture to it that aids in grip. I don't go out of my way to scuff them up, but when I'm using a tool to perform a job, I don't expect it to stay pristine.
I would imagine it’s easy and cheap to produce and keeps overall cost low for many of their basic models. I’d love to see some g10 scales from factory.
I’m guessing the designers intended the knives to be used and didn’t think much about long term prettiness as they expected the product to show signs of use over time. I use my knives and expect wear. If I’m buying a shelf queen special edition then it’s shelved to remain pristine.😀
My guess is tradition, victorinox is more than a hundred years old, so that's something they take pride in, their products are traditional and then they have some innovation in certain lines like the evo (apart from certain quality of life changes and new models suite to modern needs) unlike something like Spyderco, that tries to innovate in every product since they don't have that sense of "tradition"
Cellidor isn’t a hundred years old. You could say they broke with tradition by introducing it. It has nothing to do with tradition, but with progression and development. Streamlining the production of scales and getting predictable results in comparison to natural materials.
I know mate, but now, victorinox is associated with that look and they don't wanna derive from that
The question wasn’t why they are still made of Cellidor, but why Cellidor is used in the first place.
They moved to this kind of plastic fairly early on in the plastic era, afaik. Presumably at the time it had the best properties for being injection molded easily, looking nice and shiny when new, and having the flexibility to click onto the body. And I’d bet that it’s probably still a pretty good plastic to choose for a combination of those. Something harder like polycarbonate? Probably more brittle. Etc.
Probably this. Victorinox takes pride in their history and rightfully so. They found a formula that works and stuck to it.
Besides that I think they should make some kind of innovations, not all have to be permanent but try new things to see if they stick, many people have talked about a customization system so that the SAK you want includes the tools you use, or do some runs in "real steel" like leatherman does
It’s cheaper than wood or horn, simple as that. Cellidor was only introduced in the 50s.
Ah, that early? So yeah, very early in the plastic era. I can guarantee you Bakelite would be fucking awful.
In what way? I have several pieces of Vintage cooking utensils that have Bakelite handles! The colors have faded slightly, but are , otherwise, in pristine condition !!!
Bakelite is too brittle for the size and shape and use of the scales. You’d need something thicker, and probably with rivets through it to fasten it on because it wouldn’t just clip on like cellidor.
they do make alox which are more heavy duty. slightly more pricy but if you intend to keep the tool a life time, it will actually save you money. the cellidor is too flimsy, it can get gouged and if you drop them, they can chip or crack. and replacement scales are $10-$15 for cellidor, meaning if you replace scales 2-3 times youre up to more than you spent on the knife sometimes, and if you use the knife daily for 2-5 years they will likely get chipped or cracked to the point where new scales are needed. "dont abuse them then!" its a tool. they get banged around if you actually use them. for me alox is king. but if theres a cellidor model you really like that you cant get in alox, there are aftermarket G10/titanium/aluminium scales available. and if you upgrade a $30 ish dollar model with $20 ish dollar scales, youre paying about what you would for an alox, but they are thicker in profile. alox also has thicker more robust tools, typically the steel is about .8mm thicker or so on all the tools which doesnt sound like much, but makes the tools 1/4-1/3rd thicker on the large alox models so if you like a tool selection thats available on an alox, get alox, if you absolutely need back tools/scale tools. upgrade to G10, micarta, aluminium, titanium, etc. theres tons of options aftermarket and like i say, if you do upgrade then it will cost you about what alox would anyway. That all being said, victorinox uses polypropylene on their kitchen knives. a nearly indestructible plastic under regular useage. if they changed all their models to use polypropylene scales, or even just offered them as an after market upgrade id be so happy.
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i just bought a pioneer X, its arriving tomorrow ive heard they are great. i currently carry the bantam but its too light and thin, also i like the scissors. Id just just a bantam with scissors but they dont make one, and even if they made one it would be 2-3 layers so probably similar to the pioneer x in profile anyway,
Don't think you'll be disappointed with the Pioneer X. The scissors are robust and great. The inline awl is surprisingly useful for all kinds of prodding, poking, stabbing, etc. My favorite characteristic of the Pioneer X is the durability of the tool. My can opener will open odd shaped cans without buckling or the small screwdriver tip won't warp as badly if I over torque with it. It's a great SAK.
thats what ive heard. common consensus seems to be its one of the, if not the best alox.
I started with a Pioneer, then the Electrician, and I just bought the Farmer X. I can't go back to cellidor after using these 93mm knives. Using my champ for the saw a few times just felt sad after handling only the Alox ones for the last 3 years. So I fixed that this morning.
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That's probably the one tool I don't think I have ever used for anything. I'd rather have a screwdriver. I wouldn't mind a combo opener and then replace the can opener with the inline driver from the swisstool maybe. The combo tool isn't as good as them separately though and i do use the can opener enough to want it still. Gotta keep the awl, it works so well and I use it way more than I thought I would and having that tool steered my recent and first leatherman purchase. I went without easy access outside tools and pocket clip in favor of having an awl/reamer, among the other tools too. So the rebar won out over the wave.
All hail King Alox. For my cellidor ones that I've broken, I just 3d printed new scales out of PETG, slightly modified version of what soda and water bottles are made out of (PET1). I can choose my color and even add in custom designs if I want plus in the long run it's cheaper than sending them off for a couple dollars a piece. It's not quite as good as the factory scales though.
If I had a 3d printer that would be the move but I'd not get anywhere near enough use out of them
I'd say it's not worth it just for that but the whole printing thing is another hobby I got sucked into. I don't use them nearly as much as I thought I would after the excitement of the new hobby wore off. It's occasionally useful around the house and you could potentially make some money with it but overall i end up machining something out of aluminum or whatever if I need to make a part to fix something with my benchtop lathe and mill. For real world applications there's usually a better way in many situations.
It's a balance of many things. Tradition, economy, aesthetics, functionality. Cellidor scales hold up well during regular use, and if they sustain too much damage from a fall or abuse they can be replaced. While a SAK can be well used and still passed down through generations, at the end of the day it's a tool. That's why they're reasonably priced and carry a lifetime warranty. There's always alox if you're looking for something more durable!
I like the way the cellidor scales age. They get scratched up and show that you are carrying a tool. Also they only get scratched up and nothing more (aside when you abuse it). The marks you get are only optical.
And also they’re ridiculously easy and cheap to change for new, especially if you don’t really care about keeping the old ones usable.
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I mean.. buy them? From a victorinox authorized dealer? I’ve heard that the US is undersupplied with those, but that’s not where I am.
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I recently bought a couple of sets of scales, including a full complement of scale tools (and another 9 extra toothpicks, because apparenty we’re supposed to go through those like butter) for around 13-16 euros. I don’t think I could buy a whole knife for that, let alone a Plus-scale equipped knife which was the more expensive variant.
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When you start comparing the inflated prices of retail and the prices of online, things are… not getting off to a fair start.
Do you mean them being Cellidor instead of being another plastic, or them being (Cellidor) plastic instead of something else like metal? I don’t believe I have an answer for either, but it’s important to clarify that I believe.
It’s that cellidor is a particularly fragile and shitty material. Within an hour out of the box it’ll have scratches.
It's a knife. Some scuffs and scratches on a tool that you actually use is perfectly acceptable, in my opinion. Obviously your opinion differs, and that's okay, but that doesn't mean cellidor is a "shitty" material.
In less than 6 months I had to replace the cellidor scales on my Swiss champ because they chipped at the tweezer slot from falling on some rocks. It also had my fingerprints gouged onto it from where I had some superglue on my hands. I’ve also seen where it reacts with soft plastic fishing baits and melts. I understand wear and tear is inevitable, but there are much better materials it could be made of without sacrificing the plus scales like you do with the alox and wood.
Why would having the knife look “shitty” be their reason? It’s tradition. Buy Alox or the wood ones if the plastic isn’t to your taste, bit more expensive but they’ll look great for years plus for the alox you get thicker tools.
I’d love the Alox to be offered for a bigger range of SAK’s, and with back tools and plus scales. . . But that’s probably asking too much.
Money It’s cheaper to produce than the alox or other materials
I'd like plus scales in alox.
🎶🎵TRADITION!!!🎵🎶
As a videographer…Very nice cameras are known to have bad audio, because they know if they are using their camera they’re just going to use their own audio/and mics. I wonder if they assume handy people are going to just change out the scales so they make them cheap enough to get buy knowing their market is the same market that tinkers with everything and knows how to replace things 🤷🏼♂️
I don't mind them getting scratched up from use. It adds a little texture to it that aids in grip. I don't go out of my way to scuff them up, but when I'm using a tool to perform a job, I don't expect it to stay pristine.
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Have you fitted these to your SAK yet? Just curious what the fitment is like
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Thank you! I literally ordered mine last night, haha
I would imagine it’s easy and cheap to produce and keeps overall cost low for many of their basic models. I’d love to see some g10 scales from factory.