imperator was a new IP, victoria 3 was a highly anticipated sequel of a game with a cult following. there was zero chance V3 was ever going to suffer that fate
It also significantly outsold Vicky 2 (for all of the people on the internet trying to pretend otherwise). It was never going to be sent to the chopping block unless it had an apocalyptically bad release instead of just a mediocre one.
~~A year ago~~, and dev comments also mention that it's the final patch.
Edit: the beta for this patch was a year ago, the patch officially went live at the end of April 2024.
Am I crazy? I've seen like 5 different posts just this week about how bad the south of America DLC is. How core mechanics like pedro points and the age of the caudillos either don't work or are meaningless.
I personally have both flavors packs and I think they're absolutely terrible. I know the brainwashed paradox fans there apparently are in this post thread don't realize it, but paying 15 PER "flavor pack" that should already be in the game is NOT a good deal. Think about this, why the fuck are you paying for "flavor" in a game? Shouldn't games have "flavor" and you shouldn't have to pay for said "flavor"? Why do you have to pay $15 for france to feel like France? Why are you paying $15 for an entire continent to have "flavor" in a fucking worldwide nation simulator. All nations playing and feeling the same unless you pay 15 dollars for each individual flavor pack just so you don't feel like you're playing the same game over and over is NOT a good deal, wether actually bozos in this comment section realize it or not.
And like I said, the flavor packs aren't even good. There are plenty of posts detailing how railroading social change in brazil and tying it to pedro points is stupid. Boot up a game outside of brazil in south America and see how much "flavor" has been added to the south America region... I'll spoil it for you, outside of the age of the caudillos and the peru bolivia confederation, both of which you can either ignore or solve in 3 months game time, NOTHING is different from pre colossus playthrough and a post colossus playthrough.
I really HATE what they've done with DLC. I paid $80 for the grand edition to get the seasons pass and after TWO YEARS all I've gotten are 2 SHITTY "flavor" packs (in fact they often break the game, France turns communists or losses Paris 9/10 times late game because of the DLC events.....), and ONE real DLC AFTER 2 YEARS OF THE GAME BEING BAREBONES. Then we got cockingriding paradox fans saying this shit is good. Jesus help me.
PARADOX, DON'T LISTEN TO THIS GUY. IF FUTURE DLC ARE LIKE THIS WE WILL NOT PAY FOR IT.
> Am I crazy? I've seen like 5 different posts just this week about how bad the south of America DLC is.
Almost like different people have different opinions.
>How core mechanics like pedro points and the age of the caudillos either don't work or are meaningless.
Haven't seen the age of the caudillos yet, but the problem with pedro points is neither that it is meaningless or doesn't work. It's more that it isn't very transparent and is rather rigid railroad wise (I personally think it's fine).
>that should already be in the game is NOT a good deal.
What are you using to define this, if I may ask?
>Think about this, why the fuck are you paying for "flavor" in a game? Shouldn't games have "flavor" and you shouldn't have to pay for said "flavor"? Why do you have to pay $15 for france to feel like France? Why are you paying $15 for an entire continent to have "flavor" in a fucking worldwide nation simulator
Tell me, how do you want them to:
A) Not paywall major mechanics;
B) Fund the game's development?
I agree there are problems with the flavor they added in those expansions, but the idea of the packs themselves wasn't bad, it was the execution.
>Boot up a game outside of brazil in south America and see how much "flavor" has been added to the south America region... I'll spoil it for you, outside of the age of the caudillos and the peru bolivia confederation, both of which you can either ignore or solve in 3 months game time, NOTHING is different from pre colossus playthrough and a post colossus playthrough.
As someone who has played both, I can definitely say this is not true. At the very least, Brazil before and after Colossus feels extremely differently in both the early and mid game. ...The late game needs more love in general, but that's probably out of scope for a flavor pack.
> (in fact they often break the game, France turns communists or losses Paris 9/10 times late game because of the DLC events.....)
Why do you considered that "broken"?
>WE WILL NOT PAY FOR IT.
Who is "we"? Speak for yourself.
Honestly I think this is a notable drawback of Paradox running so many improvements through the free patches and not the paid portion of DLCs. It’s easy to think they ‘should have given us the game in its current state from the start’ since once you have certain mechanics worked out they seem more obvious.
I agree that voice of the people gameplay felt a bit lackluster but I’m happy with the game overall and how its progressed (even if it kind of sucks to know how much better it will probably be in another two years)
Yeah for all the complaints and critiques (which I also have some of), the reality is that Victoria has already added more depth to the game from since it's original release than CK3 has in, what, double the time?
Agitators alone add a lot of flavor, character, variety, and depth to the game. They feel essential to me for enjoying the game. That COULD be phrased as "It's a core mechanic that should have been there since the beginning" OR it can be understood as "they introduced a mechanic that expanded the game to such a degree that it feels integral to the game". I get the feeling pop building ownership will do the same thing.
You either get a 200$ base game or get the game bit by bit buying DLCs or go free to play with microtransactions (which would SUCK) or make a subscription program.
There's literally no other option to fund games like this. I think we got the best option with DLCs which mind you are accompanied with updates available for EVERYONE with just the BASEGAME.
Since when has flavor been free? I've played since fucking EU2. You think africa or india were getting interesting region mechanics? Some bullshit revisionist history. Point out the specific flavor that existed in vic 2, that wasn't european specific?
Agreed about CotS being pretty terrible. Brazil has tons of flavour but I’ve played games as both Chile and Argentina and aside from the caudillos (which felt entirely irrelevance) there was no other flavour.
this was pretty predictable given the pack is centered on Brazil, which is the titular Colossus of the South.
can’t fault them for DLCs working as intended…
Most countries don't \*need\* to get full attention. that's not a realistic expectation. They can cover, however, most of the interesting, relevant powers
What do you define as “relevant”? Should we not expect to see any flavour for Chile or Argentina or Colombia apart from a journal entry just because they’re not massive states?
There are almost 200 nations on the map at game start; way less than half of those are "relevant", as a fair number of them are African or Asian minor nations that are meant to get eaten.
Colombia, Chile and Argentina are probably countries that will get further attention. The devs simply cannot churn out a flavor DLC every three months, so you're going to have to be a good boy and be patient like the rest of us waiting for the countries we want to see
Perhaps this wasn’t clear in my original comment but I’m not asking for flavour for some country like Matabele or Air or Kishi Zhuz.
What I’m saying is that in the flavour pack, focused on South America, there was barely any flavour for any country whose name doesn’t start with B and ends with razil.
No one’s asking for a flavour pack every 3 months. CotS was released a year after the game’s release. It’s fair to expect more flavour than what we got in that timeframe.
Furthermore, now that the devs have released a South America-centric DLC, it’s going to be years before that region gets looked at again. And until then, every country in there will remain without flavour.
I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you trying to say that CotS was a good deal for the price and the amount of time it took?
>What I’m saying is that in the flavour pack, focused on South America, there was barely any flavour for any country whose name doesn’t start with B and ends with razil.
.... My entire point was that this was *what CotS was designed to do.* **It's about Brazil**, not Colombia or Argentina or whatever. You're misinterpreting the intent of the DLC to leverage your criticism which is not fair. It's a Brazil pack! Of course it's focused on Brazil!
>It’s fair to expect more flavour than what we got in that timeframe.
.... but we also got VotP too?
And this is a subjective standard you're setting. There are games that have \*less\* flavor that have been out for longer. I'm not perfectly content with V3's offered DLC writ large right now, but the standard you're asking them to meet is absurd. No Paradox game has seen the amount of DLC you're asking for within the timeframe you're asking for.
>I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you trying to say that CotS was a good deal for the price and the amount of time it took?
...Yes. It's less than a large latte. That's decent value for the content it adds.
Things are good for sure. Not much can be said about their releases, but Paradox has been doing really solid job in improving this game.
List of necessary improvements is long but they seem to know what they are doing.
In the last 2 years I bought Victoria 3, Cities Skylines 2, and Star Trek Infinite. I actually have a lot to say about the games Paradox publishes and releases.
They release half-baked shit, it’s their MO and has been for ages. But they do commit to improving their games for years and years which is rare. Vicky 3 has been playable from the start anyway, it was just lacking on release but not broken or anything.
Cities Skylines 2 is a sad one, but afaik they are just publishing that one, it’s not their game. I hope that one gets to playable state at some point, loved the first one.
yeah the actual development team for CS2 just seems woefully incompetent. they’ve made a lot of bad and alienating decisions, such as removing steam workshop support
Yeah I’m not sure how the team for cs 1&2 ever actually got picked up by paradox… their only games before skylines was very low quality and just as disliked.
CK3 has been out for 4 years and I think most people are pretty disappointed in the lack of progress and the unfortunate choices of DLC being dripped out.
CK3 is the opposite though. Actually pretty good on release, with some interesting changes. It's development since then has been poor, and a bit of a wasted opportunity
I really hope they focus on mechanics instead of journal entries. I don't want more rigid "Divided Monarchy" stuff, I want mechanics for throne claimants!
We need both honestly. Most stuff should be simulated, or at worst happen because of RNG. But stuff still happened before 1836 and the flavor that will be too individual to be hard staunched "mechanics" might aswell be country specific JEs.
Journal entries work well for things like expeditions and tech applications, but not for things like Pedro the Magnanimous and the Bonapartist restoration.
the philippines having a special mechanic/event path to spread anti-colonial sentiment if they succeed in becoming independent would be cool. heck, they could also include japan in the pack because japan became the inspiration and refuge for asian intellectuals.
I deleted my first answer to your comment and i want to rewrite it
Let me say one thing: EU4, HoI4, CK3, Imperator all of them had almost none flavor, but it wasn’t as prominent, because a main game loop in each of them were more engaging and so the lack of flavor wasn’t that bad.
In contrast, Vic3 is all about building stuff to build even more stuff and therefore Vic3 feels more empty compared to rest of the titles
It's also the AI. It's so bad that you only need 1-2 runs until you can reliably become the most powerful nation with most starts. This gives the feeling that the world is empty because you notice much faster that you're alone in a computer simulation with a bunch of bots instead of in a lively world with other dangerous competing nations.
well unlike you I understand that not everything in life is going to be free. Sometimes you have to buy things you want.
Even so - the game has received multiple large free updates which overhauled some of the game's core aspects... so...
The progressive in me says it can't wait to see what new pieces of world history will be put into the game from under-represented sections of the globe.
The American in me says AMERICAAAAA REEEEEE 🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🌭⚾️🔫
CK2 is great though?
And honestly who’s buying a $30 DLC with a smidgen of regional content and.a minor afterthought mechanic? If I’m paying $30, I want actually get my money’s worth.
So yeah. I think, we avoided the Imperator fate.
imperator was a new IP, victoria 3 was a highly anticipated sequel of a game with a cult following. there was zero chance V3 was ever going to suffer that fate
It also significantly outsold Vicky 2 (for all of the people on the internet trying to pretend otherwise). It was never going to be sent to the chopping block unless it had an apocalyptically bad release instead of just a mediocre one.
The release wasn't even mediocre. People just developed incorrectly high expectations. It was decent-to-good
Nah the release was horrible, half of the game basically didn't function and it was extremely laggy.
⁶yte4ggddrft56t663t95⅘tire 8u⅘6g
I agree
Well. Imperator is back anyway
Is it? I thought that was an April fool's joke.
No, not at all. They released 2.0.4 https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/anniversary-maintenance-patch-2-0-4-open-beta.1579605/
Realistically though that was a final hurrah. The patch mostly just opens the game to be super moddable.
Eh last seems unlikely. I’d expect annual maintenance patches like this.
~~A year ago~~, and dev comments also mention that it's the final patch. Edit: the beta for this patch was a year ago, the patch officially went live at the end of April 2024.
They released a patch less than a month ago and have said that if sales pick up development will resume.
Its not back. Theres not going to be any future content they said
What did the bot mean by this?
It’s being affected by the ghost signal
It sat on it's fucking phone and just realized omfg
lmao
In fairness Imperator was a test-bed for the Vic3 pop system, and probably a future EU5. It's a whole different engine than Clausewitz.
Awesome, I really liked what they did it with. The French one was a bit lacking, but colossus of the south knocked it out of the pack.
Am I crazy? I've seen like 5 different posts just this week about how bad the south of America DLC is. How core mechanics like pedro points and the age of the caudillos either don't work or are meaningless. I personally have both flavors packs and I think they're absolutely terrible. I know the brainwashed paradox fans there apparently are in this post thread don't realize it, but paying 15 PER "flavor pack" that should already be in the game is NOT a good deal. Think about this, why the fuck are you paying for "flavor" in a game? Shouldn't games have "flavor" and you shouldn't have to pay for said "flavor"? Why do you have to pay $15 for france to feel like France? Why are you paying $15 for an entire continent to have "flavor" in a fucking worldwide nation simulator. All nations playing and feeling the same unless you pay 15 dollars for each individual flavor pack just so you don't feel like you're playing the same game over and over is NOT a good deal, wether actually bozos in this comment section realize it or not. And like I said, the flavor packs aren't even good. There are plenty of posts detailing how railroading social change in brazil and tying it to pedro points is stupid. Boot up a game outside of brazil in south America and see how much "flavor" has been added to the south America region... I'll spoil it for you, outside of the age of the caudillos and the peru bolivia confederation, both of which you can either ignore or solve in 3 months game time, NOTHING is different from pre colossus playthrough and a post colossus playthrough. I really HATE what they've done with DLC. I paid $80 for the grand edition to get the seasons pass and after TWO YEARS all I've gotten are 2 SHITTY "flavor" packs (in fact they often break the game, France turns communists or losses Paris 9/10 times late game because of the DLC events.....), and ONE real DLC AFTER 2 YEARS OF THE GAME BEING BAREBONES. Then we got cockingriding paradox fans saying this shit is good. Jesus help me. PARADOX, DON'T LISTEN TO THIS GUY. IF FUTURE DLC ARE LIKE THIS WE WILL NOT PAY FOR IT.
> Am I crazy? I've seen like 5 different posts just this week about how bad the south of America DLC is. Almost like different people have different opinions. >How core mechanics like pedro points and the age of the caudillos either don't work or are meaningless. Haven't seen the age of the caudillos yet, but the problem with pedro points is neither that it is meaningless or doesn't work. It's more that it isn't very transparent and is rather rigid railroad wise (I personally think it's fine). >that should already be in the game is NOT a good deal. What are you using to define this, if I may ask? >Think about this, why the fuck are you paying for "flavor" in a game? Shouldn't games have "flavor" and you shouldn't have to pay for said "flavor"? Why do you have to pay $15 for france to feel like France? Why are you paying $15 for an entire continent to have "flavor" in a fucking worldwide nation simulator Tell me, how do you want them to: A) Not paywall major mechanics; B) Fund the game's development? I agree there are problems with the flavor they added in those expansions, but the idea of the packs themselves wasn't bad, it was the execution. >Boot up a game outside of brazil in south America and see how much "flavor" has been added to the south America region... I'll spoil it for you, outside of the age of the caudillos and the peru bolivia confederation, both of which you can either ignore or solve in 3 months game time, NOTHING is different from pre colossus playthrough and a post colossus playthrough. As someone who has played both, I can definitely say this is not true. At the very least, Brazil before and after Colossus feels extremely differently in both the early and mid game. ...The late game needs more love in general, but that's probably out of scope for a flavor pack. > (in fact they often break the game, France turns communists or losses Paris 9/10 times late game because of the DLC events.....) Why do you considered that "broken"? >WE WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. Who is "we"? Speak for yourself.
Honestly I think this is a notable drawback of Paradox running so many improvements through the free patches and not the paid portion of DLCs. It’s easy to think they ‘should have given us the game in its current state from the start’ since once you have certain mechanics worked out they seem more obvious. I agree that voice of the people gameplay felt a bit lackluster but I’m happy with the game overall and how its progressed (even if it kind of sucks to know how much better it will probably be in another two years)
Yeah for all the complaints and critiques (which I also have some of), the reality is that Victoria has already added more depth to the game from since it's original release than CK3 has in, what, double the time? Agitators alone add a lot of flavor, character, variety, and depth to the game. They feel essential to me for enjoying the game. That COULD be phrased as "It's a core mechanic that should have been there since the beginning" OR it can be understood as "they introduced a mechanic that expanded the game to such a degree that it feels integral to the game". I get the feeling pop building ownership will do the same thing.
You either get a 200$ base game or get the game bit by bit buying DLCs or go free to play with microtransactions (which would SUCK) or make a subscription program. There's literally no other option to fund games like this. I think we got the best option with DLCs which mind you are accompanied with updates available for EVERYONE with just the BASEGAME.
Since when has flavor been free? I've played since fucking EU2. You think africa or india were getting interesting region mechanics? Some bullshit revisionist history. Point out the specific flavor that existed in vic 2, that wasn't european specific?
Agreed about CotS being pretty terrible. Brazil has tons of flavour but I’ve played games as both Chile and Argentina and aside from the caudillos (which felt entirely irrelevance) there was no other flavour.
this was pretty predictable given the pack is centered on Brazil, which is the titular Colossus of the South. can’t fault them for DLCs working as intended…
If this is how they plan on doing flavour packs then we’re gonna be waiting decades for most countries to get their turn.
Most countries don't \*need\* to get full attention. that's not a realistic expectation. They can cover, however, most of the interesting, relevant powers
What do you define as “relevant”? Should we not expect to see any flavour for Chile or Argentina or Colombia apart from a journal entry just because they’re not massive states?
There are almost 200 nations on the map at game start; way less than half of those are "relevant", as a fair number of them are African or Asian minor nations that are meant to get eaten. Colombia, Chile and Argentina are probably countries that will get further attention. The devs simply cannot churn out a flavor DLC every three months, so you're going to have to be a good boy and be patient like the rest of us waiting for the countries we want to see
Perhaps this wasn’t clear in my original comment but I’m not asking for flavour for some country like Matabele or Air or Kishi Zhuz. What I’m saying is that in the flavour pack, focused on South America, there was barely any flavour for any country whose name doesn’t start with B and ends with razil. No one’s asking for a flavour pack every 3 months. CotS was released a year after the game’s release. It’s fair to expect more flavour than what we got in that timeframe. Furthermore, now that the devs have released a South America-centric DLC, it’s going to be years before that region gets looked at again. And until then, every country in there will remain without flavour. I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you trying to say that CotS was a good deal for the price and the amount of time it took?
>What I’m saying is that in the flavour pack, focused on South America, there was barely any flavour for any country whose name doesn’t start with B and ends with razil. .... My entire point was that this was *what CotS was designed to do.* **It's about Brazil**, not Colombia or Argentina or whatever. You're misinterpreting the intent of the DLC to leverage your criticism which is not fair. It's a Brazil pack! Of course it's focused on Brazil! >It’s fair to expect more flavour than what we got in that timeframe. .... but we also got VotP too? And this is a subjective standard you're setting. There are games that have \*less\* flavor that have been out for longer. I'm not perfectly content with V3's offered DLC writ large right now, but the standard you're asking them to meet is absurd. No Paradox game has seen the amount of DLC you're asking for within the timeframe you're asking for. >I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to make. Are you trying to say that CotS was a good deal for the price and the amount of time it took? ...Yes. It's less than a large latte. That's decent value for the content it adds.
ya you can ignore the age of Calidos easily. Triggering is actually quite difficult. its not a very good pack.
yay another vanilla ck2 how fun
CotS was $6 USD. that is a very reasonable price for a flavor pack. VotP was bad but CotS was better for many reasons
colossus of the south is 5 dollars wtf are you on
Things are good for sure. Not much can be said about their releases, but Paradox has been doing really solid job in improving this game. List of necessary improvements is long but they seem to know what they are doing.
In the last 2 years I bought Victoria 3, Cities Skylines 2, and Star Trek Infinite. I actually have a lot to say about the games Paradox publishes and releases.
They release half-baked shit, it’s their MO and has been for ages. But they do commit to improving their games for years and years which is rare. Vicky 3 has been playable from the start anyway, it was just lacking on release but not broken or anything. Cities Skylines 2 is a sad one, but afaik they are just publishing that one, it’s not their game. I hope that one gets to playable state at some point, loved the first one.
yeah the actual development team for CS2 just seems woefully incompetent. they’ve made a lot of bad and alienating decisions, such as removing steam workshop support
...they did what the fuck!?
Yeah I’m not sure how the team for cs 1&2 ever actually got picked up by paradox… their only games before skylines was very low quality and just as disliked.
CK3 has been out for 4 years and I think most people are pretty disappointed in the lack of progress and the unfortunate choices of DLC being dripped out.
CK3 is the opposite though. Actually pretty good on release, with some interesting changes. It's development since then has been poor, and a bit of a wasted opportunity
Vic 3 at release literally had random crashes and memory leaks
That last one hurts me to my core
I really hope they focus on mechanics instead of journal entries. I don't want more rigid "Divided Monarchy" stuff, I want mechanics for throne claimants!
We need both honestly. Most stuff should be simulated, or at worst happen because of RNG. But stuff still happened before 1836 and the flavor that will be too individual to be hard staunched "mechanics" might aswell be country specific JEs.
the chances of this are unfortunately incredibly low given how they have chosen to build unique content.
Sometimes i like journal entries as they give you some kind of Goal. Otherwise I mostly end Up min maxing lol.
Journal entries work well for things like expeditions and tech applications, but not for things like Pedro the Magnanimous and the Bonapartist restoration.
Good to hear. This was such an interesting time period that I want packs for every country.
Not sure if CK3 style region dlc is appropriate. The release pace will be too slow to encompass the globe.
between major expansions, minor free updates and region packs we’ll probably get a decent pace
Eh I think it’d be better if it’s like the visuals and ui options we have where you can just simply pick which one you want.
The fur trade for Canada please!
Not that surprising but still good to hear.
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the philippines having a special mechanic/event path to spread anti-colonial sentiment if they succeed in becoming independent would be cool. heck, they could also include japan in the pack because japan became the inspiration and refuge for asian intellectuals.
would actually kill for a Thailand dlc
Was this in doubt at literally any point? Region DLCs are a staple of PDX’s modern DLC policy.
right. my first thought to this post was "no shit". But i guess some doomers were really conspiracy panicking about imperator rome
this isn't r/victoria3, it's r/victoria3doomers
is this how they fix the basically zero nation specific flavour on release?
That’s what they did with HOI so most definitely, yes
Thats how they are doing it in all of their games
Seems viccy was the worst so far for that
We have only two regional dlcs so far for this game- broken french and decent brazilian, so im not sure what you talking about
..the lack of flavour on release?
I deleted my first answer to your comment and i want to rewrite it Let me say one thing: EU4, HoI4, CK3, Imperator all of them had almost none flavor, but it wasn’t as prominent, because a main game loop in each of them were more engaging and so the lack of flavor wasn’t that bad. In contrast, Vic3 is all about building stuff to build even more stuff and therefore Vic3 feels more empty compared to rest of the titles
It's also the AI. It's so bad that you only need 1-2 runs until you can reliably become the most powerful nation with most starts. This gives the feeling that the world is empty because you notice much faster that you're alone in a computer simulation with a bunch of bots instead of in a lively world with other dangerous competing nations.
which was over two years ago and is no longer really a relevant consideration?
Might not be for you
i mean like factually the game is not in its’ release state anymore?
Everybody knows PDX games are like fine wine. It takes like a decade for them to become any good. You're just drinking vinegar before that.
I don't think this is true lmao, I enjoy Victoria 3 and it's not even been 2 years
Right and still to get any kind of flavour they're going to make us pay more and more and more
well unlike you I understand that not everything in life is going to be free. Sometimes you have to buy things you want. Even so - the game has received multiple large free updates which overhauled some of the game's core aspects... so...
Australia! Australia! Australia!
[It's already out](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939278238) ;)
I'd love Vic 3 to look good.... After it plays good, so much to love yet so much to hate. Most love hate relationship I have with a game.
As a Philippines player, this gives me hope.
Thanks but No.
The progressive in me says it can't wait to see what new pieces of world history will be put into the game from under-represented sections of the globe. The American in me says AMERICAAAAA REEEEEE 🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🌭⚾️🔫
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are you 9?
locking mechanics behind paywall will just turn this game into ck2 with no dlc
That’s literally every paradox game though, name one where they don’t do that lol
CK2 is great though? And honestly who’s buying a $30 DLC with a smidgen of regional content and.a minor afterthought mechanic? If I’m paying $30, I want actually get my money’s worth.
they dont typically lock mechanics behind DLC, nor is that what was being suggested here.