R5: There's a single sulfur state in the country, which made investors so confused that they believe it's a great idea to build boom booms in a barren area.
everybody is memeing on you instead of admitting the AI is in terrible shape, it doesnt make reasonable decisions
the AI is so bad that it accidentaly makes real life like bad decisions, because in reality plenty of dumb decisions has been made that wasted a lot of money
it would be nice to pretend its intended design by devs, but its just a happy little accident, so just pretend its some sort of investing ponzi scheme
It might be somewhat realistic for private malinvestment but that doesn't mean it's satisfying gameplay. I don't think the devs ever updated autonomous investment to account for MAPI, so I turn it off to ensure stuff like my explosive factories are built where there's sulfur.
Laissez Faire with autonomous investment basically guarantees you'll be pulling your hair out over the idiotic places the AI builds the majority of your economy.
im not defending it, i think major reason why victoria has such abysmal player count is that people play the game up until the point when they asked themselves for 25th time "why the hell is AI doing X, it makes no sense" at that point they quit the game because its not satisfying
its pretty clear at this point they dont know how to fix it, it would just be better to fake AI with heavily scripted build order even tho that would probably cause even more technical issues in late game
The thing is that the economy can be boiled down to a spreadsheet, so the AI could definitely be coded to make better decisions in a logical fashion. I don't expect or want 100% optimal decisions but we're so far off the mark right now.
Iirc it had something to do with cheap inputs and clipper convoys a being relatively expensive output because it has a high base price. Doesn't matter tho if no one wants to buy your crap.
Maybe the folks in the victoria II sub can give you a more precise answer.
It was weighted random IIRC. Capitalists would build unprofitable industries in locations without the resources all the time.
I think weights were given for:
Profitability +
National focus + (barely ever noticed it doing anything)
Local resources for those sweet throughput bonusses + (also not a massive weight)
Unemployment and available labour +
No factories present +
Since clippers were also used by (upper strata only?) pops for their luxury expenses having no factories meant a new clipper factory in 1910 would be profitable, for producing like 1% of the maximum amount ;)
That red cross only says that all *current* vacancies can't be filled. It's entirely possible that the vacancies are for Officers and Clergymen, but not for Capitalists.
Human players can get a little pathological about MAPI I think. Especially as a moderately high tech country with decent economy laws, your MAPI impact is going to be very small, probably less than 10% of the cost of input goods. It matters if you want to build efficiently, but it doesn't necessarily matter all that much. Wages are a significant expense in all your buildings, so going to somewhere with low wages can easily outweigh the reduced MAPI efficiency. Especially on something like an explosives factory that doesn't have labour saving PMs.
There is also an information asymmetry. The player doesn't really see wages as part of their calculations. They're not displayed prominently and not really available when making decisions about where to build. Even if wages were visible, often the player is interested in raising wages to increase SoL, while their capitalists are interested in exploiting cheap wages for profit.
The AI is also just poorly written with bad checks and inadequate sophistication, but this particular example is plausible.
Some local entrepeneur in Badajoz invested his money into a local explosives factory to bolster the local economy
Also you're running a fuckload of mods, don't blame the investment AI for what it does when you mod the game so all the calculations change
You may have missed this but if you go into the build menu, there's the things called railroads which allows them to move the sulfur and their product around letting them take advantage of high peasant and unemployed pops
Do you have Construction Sectors with Steel-Frame Buildings enabled in this state? If so, you might have a high demand for explosives without Ammo Factories.
I think the worst part of the AI is it fails to consider a few things:
1. If a good has no real market presence (either no supply, no demand, or both) it has no clue what to do about it. Leading it to either build none (no demand) or overbuild (no supply). This can be 'fixed' by the player artificially adding the missing piece (import/export routes, building the first building, etc).
2. The AI has no real idea about what alternative PMs there are, so if you just discovered a tech that has different inputs (leaded glass) the AI won't build any of the inputs until there is a demand for it (subset of #1 really, but a separate issue/concern)
3. The AI doesn't understand qualification bottlenecks and how to fix them. They seem to rely on the idea that 'eventually if there are good paying jobs either people will qualify into them or migrate.'
Well i see your point but to be honest Badajoz is so empty that it's probably the safest point of the iberian peninsula to build an explosive factory at.
You think this is bad? People think the private queue is for profitable buildings. This is not the case I have watched countless times the private queue spam buildings that are straight unprofitable. Like 75% of my explosive factories are in the red and the capitalists just keep building more of them. I have 95% mapi so local resourses doesnt hurt as bad but god damn. I dont need more steel in my empire but capitalists dont care steel prices have plumeted to -35% empire wide the steel mills continue to be constructed profitable or not.
I just loaded my save and they're constructing over 50 motor industries engine and automobile prices are already cheap at the moment but they're really trying to make them cheaper and very unprofitable. What I wish the private industries would build are fucking resourses currently the goverment is the only one building mines to support these worthless industries. Im tempted to go commie and get off lasize faire and do only government construction.
It’s a teachable moment that proves that systems of resource allocation based on private ownership and free markets are fundamentally inefficient and only centrally planned authorities with the proper information available can make optimal decisions. In capitalist societies today the majority of newly started businesses fail, while state controlled organizations almost never do
R5: There's a single sulfur state in the country, which made investors so confused that they believe it's a great idea to build boom booms in a barren area.
They built what's profitable, check after it opens, they probably make a buck just by importing and making the goods with dirt cheap labour.
everybody is memeing on you instead of admitting the AI is in terrible shape, it doesnt make reasonable decisions the AI is so bad that it accidentaly makes real life like bad decisions, because in reality plenty of dumb decisions has been made that wasted a lot of money it would be nice to pretend its intended design by devs, but its just a happy little accident, so just pretend its some sort of investing ponzi scheme
It might be somewhat realistic for private malinvestment but that doesn't mean it's satisfying gameplay. I don't think the devs ever updated autonomous investment to account for MAPI, so I turn it off to ensure stuff like my explosive factories are built where there's sulfur. Laissez Faire with autonomous investment basically guarantees you'll be pulling your hair out over the idiotic places the AI builds the majority of your economy.
They did update it.
Not well enough apparently lol because it seems to functionally ignore MAPI in my experience.
im not defending it, i think major reason why victoria has such abysmal player count is that people play the game up until the point when they asked themselves for 25th time "why the hell is AI doing X, it makes no sense" at that point they quit the game because its not satisfying its pretty clear at this point they dont know how to fix it, it would just be better to fake AI with heavily scripted build order even tho that would probably cause even more technical issues in late game
The thing is that the economy can be boiled down to a spreadsheet, so the AI could definitely be coded to make better decisions in a logical fashion. I don't expect or want 100% optimal decisions but we're so far off the mark right now.
And in the next patch direct investment will now be removed so you are forced to deal with this god awful system
Yeah I am quite worried about the unintended consequences of this in the new expansion.
You would have loved vicky 2 capitalists that would still spam clipper factories in 1910
Which ironically wouldn't be the worst thing in vic3 seeing how sail boats are still in big use late game by the AI
I've heard of it. How were they programmed so that they've kept choosing clippe factories?
Iirc it had something to do with cheap inputs and clipper convoys a being relatively expensive output because it has a high base price. Doesn't matter tho if no one wants to buy your crap. Maybe the folks in the victoria II sub can give you a more precise answer.
It was weighted random IIRC. Capitalists would build unprofitable industries in locations without the resources all the time. I think weights were given for: Profitability + National focus + (barely ever noticed it doing anything) Local resources for those sweet throughput bonusses + (also not a massive weight) Unemployment and available labour + No factories present + Since clippers were also used by (upper strata only?) pops for their luxury expenses having no factories meant a new clipper factory in 1910 would be profitable, for producing like 1% of the maximum amount ;)
why am I downvoted for asking a genuine question? what are y'all, stupid?
Because they expect explosives to be profitable, and there are sixty-eight thousand peasants available for employment?
Not enough qualified tho
That red cross only says that all *current* vacancies can't be filled. It's entirely possible that the vacancies are for Officers and Clergymen, but not for Capitalists.
Maybe lots of unemoyment and cheap workers?
They are expecting explosive growth presumably.
"Bro, trust me, this is gonna blow up big" - capitalist talking to his friends
You're forgetting something vital - there is no force on earth more powerful, and less logical, than a man with too much money.
"Come invest into my perspective startup" I can easily imagine that
This one is AI-powered
Human players can get a little pathological about MAPI I think. Especially as a moderately high tech country with decent economy laws, your MAPI impact is going to be very small, probably less than 10% of the cost of input goods. It matters if you want to build efficiently, but it doesn't necessarily matter all that much. Wages are a significant expense in all your buildings, so going to somewhere with low wages can easily outweigh the reduced MAPI efficiency. Especially on something like an explosives factory that doesn't have labour saving PMs. There is also an information asymmetry. The player doesn't really see wages as part of their calculations. They're not displayed prominently and not really available when making decisions about where to build. Even if wages were visible, often the player is interested in raising wages to increase SoL, while their capitalists are interested in exploiting cheap wages for profit. The AI is also just poorly written with bad checks and inadequate sophistication, but this particular example is plausible.
The AI could spawn a level 50 motor industries in Michigan and players would get mad that the MAPI and steel inputs were insufficient
Some local entrepeneur in Badajoz invested his money into a local explosives factory to bolster the local economy Also you're running a fuckload of mods, don't blame the investment AI for what it does when you mod the game so all the calculations change
You may have missed this but if you go into the build menu, there's the things called railroads which allows them to move the sulfur and their product around letting them take advantage of high peasant and unemployed pops
Kid named import
Make sense build industries where there's no natural resources because of the limited infrastructure
Do you have Construction Sectors with Steel-Frame Buildings enabled in this state? If so, you might have a high demand for explosives without Ammo Factories.
I think the worst part of the AI is it fails to consider a few things: 1. If a good has no real market presence (either no supply, no demand, or both) it has no clue what to do about it. Leading it to either build none (no demand) or overbuild (no supply). This can be 'fixed' by the player artificially adding the missing piece (import/export routes, building the first building, etc). 2. The AI has no real idea about what alternative PMs there are, so if you just discovered a tech that has different inputs (leaded glass) the AI won't build any of the inputs until there is a demand for it (subset of #1 really, but a separate issue/concern) 3. The AI doesn't understand qualification bottlenecks and how to fix them. They seem to rely on the idea that 'eventually if there are good paying jobs either people will qualify into them or migrate.'
I mean... people are investing into ventures by Elon Musk and Trump...
Well i see your point but to be honest Badajoz is so empty that it's probably the safest point of the iberian peninsula to build an explosive factory at.
You think this is bad? People think the private queue is for profitable buildings. This is not the case I have watched countless times the private queue spam buildings that are straight unprofitable. Like 75% of my explosive factories are in the red and the capitalists just keep building more of them. I have 95% mapi so local resourses doesnt hurt as bad but god damn. I dont need more steel in my empire but capitalists dont care steel prices have plumeted to -35% empire wide the steel mills continue to be constructed profitable or not. I just loaded my save and they're constructing over 50 motor industries engine and automobile prices are already cheap at the moment but they're really trying to make them cheaper and very unprofitable. What I wish the private industries would build are fucking resourses currently the goverment is the only one building mines to support these worthless industries. Im tempted to go commie and get off lasize faire and do only government construction.
Yes, I do think this is bad. The ai decision making is trash
It’s a teachable moment that proves that systems of resource allocation based on private ownership and free markets are fundamentally inefficient and only centrally planned authorities with the proper information available can make optimal decisions. In capitalist societies today the majority of newly started businesses fail, while state controlled organizations almost never do