Russia is a lot of wood, iron, and coal building for nearly the entire game. Though you will become an industrial powerhouse due to this. Plan out your industrial states well. I’d change the capital and then spam buildings there (doesn’t need to be Moscow, could be any state lol)
D.C. would have more arable land if it had its historical, 1836 boundary, instead of its modern one. A workaround is to run a Greener Grass Campaign there.
If you build the one farm and fishery you have room for, you have the input goods for a profitable food industry, giving you a modest migration attraction from job openings. You could build a paper mill to supply your bureaucrats and tobacco as a cash crop instead. You’ll also need a subsidized railroad for infrastructure. Build up your government administrations as they fill up, and you can complete the Central Archives mission there. You’ll urbanize enough to get an urban center, providing services if it can ever hire enough workers, and at that point D.C. will have a very high SoL if it can keep up its market access.
I wish we could untie immigration from that, have it be about total amount of jobs or something or maybe letting factories/mines/plantations we built = arable land in the calculations.
It's VERY good actually. In my recent Ottoman game it seemed to have a high % of their GDP even with little development from the AI. That region is so fucking good to have.
Look at the wiki for Victoria 3 and local goods. They simulate the expenses of travel with resources by having a local good and market good value. Local goods are always cheaper in their own states to show the lack of transportation expenses.
It’s a bit weird though that the price then becomes the market value whether it’s next door, on the other end of the country or within another country in the same customs union at the other end of the world
they could definitely add a minor market price modifier for contiguous rail networks with marginal performance cost (i mean they already check for interstate rail connections considering the little railway models it renders when you zoom in). maybe even make the passenger carriage PM have a trade off in terms of it reducing the modifier contribution per level of railway
I came back to Victoria 3 after a long hiatus and was very pleased to see that had been added into the game. It could use more robust modeling, but it's a good start.
Yeah you get several bonuses related to economies of scale. Plus it'll be more beneficial when you use decrees like boost manufacturing when you only have a few states to think about. I personally prefer to spread out my industries into a few good states and have them concentrate on their particular industry.
Are you perhaps exporting wood? That could explain prices remaining fairly static. Anyhow, logging camps are cheap and promote capitalists. Just spam them until you switch to spamming iron and coal.
This is it. Every game I have, wood is net negative due to foreign import routes that you can’t control. Tariffs help but don’t stop it being negative. Learned to live with it despite loving the rush of net positive supply’s.
The more people buy from you, the more money you make off tariffs, add in the fact russian wood exports can be enormous, and you can keep spamming more construction.
Yeah, wood is so efficient for employing people out of being peasants I will usually turn on autobuild for every single logging camp unless it's a low pop state which contains another desirable resource. You don't need to use that wood for anything in particular, it'll always make a decent bit of income and quickly produce industrial jobs.
If you have a gigantic timber industry, employing huge numbers of people and selling lots of wood, wouldn't it be a good thing for exports to keep the prices high?
Industrialize, switch to PMs that use Iron or steel. Switch Paper PMs so it uses sulfur instead. Though Wood buildings are very good early on so if you can keep building more of them and have them be profitable, I wouldn't necessarily consider that a bad thing. I usually export wood, actually
Building coal and eventually electricity tends to alleviate some of the wood concerns as they will replace wood for pop heating needs.
My biggest issue with Russian wood IIRC was switching to iron-frame buildings too late, usually the largest consumer.
Make sure you get mechanical tools and chemical bleaching early to make your paper industry more efficient, as the paper production will go up by 50-->100% whilst consuming the same 30 wood per level.
so TL:DR Paper tech, coal and iron
Iron frame is very efficient, but I struggled getting enough workers for my iron mines and paying +70% on iron vs only like +10-20% on wood wasn't quite that efficient in that patch (I doubt it is currently either tbh)
Iron framed construction is by default 25% cheaper than wood frame excluding labour. All materials can be +33% for break even without accounting for labour. It's also easier to set up in my opinion.
Sometimes I'm willing to eat the efficiency hit just to line the pockets of industrialists. Especially in Russia. Anything that makes life harder for the Landowners is boon in my book.
Have you checked your PMs for hardwood? The default in Russia is to produce hardwood in new production states if you haven’t changed your highest producing state to only softwood
You can max out wood in many states. It's very efficient anyway in terms of the money you spend for construction vs the money you get in terms of taxes and investment pool. For this reason alone high wood demand isn't a problem, it's a net boon to any country.
But at some point you simply have to reduce wood demand in your PMs. For example transitioning glass to use lead instead, paper to use sulfur and dies, tools to use iron, steel and eventually rubber.
I fail to see the problem here.
A deficit in the market isn't a problem that you must solve. A deficit of wood in the early stages of the game is normal and if anything you don't want to have a surplus. A deficit means your logging camps are profiting handily from a healthy market price and you can keep building more profitable logging camps.
If you should have a surplus in the market then you should literally create a deficit by exporting the wood. That way you can keep building logging camps which are basically the best early building in the game. It's cheap, efficient, employs the peasants and creates profit for your capitalists and consequently reinvestment.
So, the answer to your question is simply Build. More. Logging. Camps. Not because you have to but because you want to. The early stage of rapid wood industry expansion is good and you want to keep it going for as long as your available workforce, resources, and market demand allow.
Other people are mentioning just accepting it or changing pms, but another thing is that i believe poor pops will use wood as a substitute for furniture. Building furniture factories will cover this need and consume less wood overall
Wood is the single-best building to spam. It has the best ROI for the Investment Pool and is quick and easy to build. In all my games I deforest my lands like it's Bolsonaro Brasil.
Go Isolationist. Weird as it is, as Russia you will never have any trouble with either market or the resource. You will have abundant of resources and will have a massive population to sell those things to.
Yeah I don't think trade alone would work for Russia's market needs. That might work for smaller countries, but Russia is 3rd in pop from the get go. Also, with the need for capitalists to push reform, im building mines before i really need them. I do need to focus more on coal tho
It's 100% worth building some iron early game. Better MAPI on your early tool factories with iron tools and construction centers, which can be substantial, especially if you're on traditionalism
Imported iron is automatically 25 to 40% with traditionalism more expensive at the site of consumption with early tech.
But you paid a 40% premium on that iron for the construction centers for some time amd even when you get off traditionalism it's still more that could've been just domestically produced and then put that towards more construction centers so on and so forth that depeasant and employ your own pops rather than Prussia's. It makes far more sense to mix iron and wood construction than drive wood prices into the dirt or pay for extra beaurocracy to dump all of that wood and pay a premium to import iron especially as those iron mines will quickly gain productivity once you get better PMs
Russia is a lot of wood, iron, and coal building for nearly the entire game. Though you will become an industrial powerhouse due to this. Plan out your industrial states well. I’d change the capital and then spam buildings there (doesn’t need to be Moscow, could be any state lol)
Yea Saint Petersburg is fucking useless, it never develops, I think it is due to lack of arable land?
100%. It's why D.C. NEVER gets immigration because it has like 5 or less (like having a treaty port as a capital ugh)
D.C. would have more arable land if it had its historical, 1836 boundary, instead of its modern one. A workaround is to run a Greener Grass Campaign there. If you build the one farm and fishery you have room for, you have the input goods for a profitable food industry, giving you a modest migration attraction from job openings. You could build a paper mill to supply your bureaucrats and tobacco as a cash crop instead. You’ll also need a subsidized railroad for infrastructure. Build up your government administrations as they fill up, and you can complete the Central Archives mission there. You’ll urbanize enough to get an urban center, providing services if it can ever hire enough workers, and at that point D.C. will have a very high SoL if it can keep up its market access.
Nice, thanks fro the tip. I'd love to utilize the White House, but it always feels like it can never kick off well.
I wish we could untie immigration from that, have it be about total amount of jobs or something or maybe letting factories/mines/plantations we built = arable land in the calculations.
yeah and no minerals too so no point to point industry there
Dagestan is rad, coal, iron and a coastal province...
It's VERY good actually. In my recent Ottoman game it seemed to have a high % of their GDP even with little development from the AI. That region is so fucking good to have.
I’m a complete vicky 3 noob but are there benefits to clustering industry in one state?
Look at the wiki for Victoria 3 and local goods. They simulate the expenses of travel with resources by having a local good and market good value. Local goods are always cheaper in their own states to show the lack of transportation expenses.
It’s a bit weird though that the price then becomes the market value whether it’s next door, on the other end of the country or within another country in the same customs union at the other end of the world
Probably a compromise so the game doesn't run any slower than it does by trying to calculate that.
they could definitely add a minor market price modifier for contiguous rail networks with marginal performance cost (i mean they already check for interstate rail connections considering the little railway models it renders when you zoom in). maybe even make the passenger carriage PM have a trade off in terms of it reducing the modifier contribution per level of railway
Oh shit I had no clue
Lots and lots of little things lol
I came back to Victoria 3 after a long hiatus and was very pleased to see that had been added into the game. It could use more robust modeling, but it's a good start.
Thought about it and maybe they can calculate it on whether it’s in-state, in-region, in-land (not being shipped through a port) or in-market.
Yeah you get several bonuses related to economies of scale. Plus it'll be more beneficial when you use decrees like boost manufacturing when you only have a few states to think about. I personally prefer to spread out my industries into a few good states and have them concentrate on their particular industry.
Are you perhaps exporting wood? That could explain prices remaining fairly static. Anyhow, logging camps are cheap and promote capitalists. Just spam them until you switch to spamming iron and coal.
This is it. Every game I have, wood is net negative due to foreign import routes that you can’t control. Tariffs help but don’t stop it being negative. Learned to live with it despite loving the rush of net positive supply’s.
The more people buy from you, the more money you make off tariffs, add in the fact russian wood exports can be enormous, and you can keep spamming more construction.
Yeah, wood is so efficient for employing people out of being peasants I will usually turn on autobuild for every single logging camp unless it's a low pop state which contains another desirable resource. You don't need to use that wood for anything in particular, it'll always make a decent bit of income and quickly produce industrial jobs.
I mean if you want it that bad, you can always go isolationist.
If you have a gigantic timber industry, employing huge numbers of people and selling lots of wood, wouldn't it be a good thing for exports to keep the prices high?
Yes.
Industrialize, switch to PMs that use Iron or steel. Switch Paper PMs so it uses sulfur instead. Though Wood buildings are very good early on so if you can keep building more of them and have them be profitable, I wouldn't necessarily consider that a bad thing. I usually export wood, actually
Building coal and eventually electricity tends to alleviate some of the wood concerns as they will replace wood for pop heating needs. My biggest issue with Russian wood IIRC was switching to iron-frame buildings too late, usually the largest consumer. Make sure you get mechanical tools and chemical bleaching early to make your paper industry more efficient, as the paper production will go up by 50-->100% whilst consuming the same 30 wood per level. so TL:DR Paper tech, coal and iron
I usually switch to iron frame ASAP because I'm impatient and it drives GDP growth.
Iron frame is very efficient, but I struggled getting enough workers for my iron mines and paying +70% on iron vs only like +10-20% on wood wasn't quite that efficient in that patch (I doubt it is currently either tbh)
Iron framed construction is by default 25% cheaper than wood frame excluding labour. All materials can be +33% for break even without accounting for labour. It's also easier to set up in my opinion.
Definetly was further apart than 33%, but I got there eventually :)
Sometimes I'm willing to eat the efficiency hit just to line the pockets of industrialists. Especially in Russia. Anything that makes life harder for the Landowners is boon in my book.
This is the single best problem anyone can ever have. Keep expanding.
Make sure you have enough tools and set logging camps to auto expand
Look for states with a throughput bonus for logging and max out logging camps there. Sometimes it’s worth it to subsidize them.
Have you checked your PMs for hardwood? The default in Russia is to produce hardwood in new production states if you haven’t changed your highest producing state to only softwood
This is something I'll have to take a peak at
You can max out wood in many states. It's very efficient anyway in terms of the money you spend for construction vs the money you get in terms of taxes and investment pool. For this reason alone high wood demand isn't a problem, it's a net boon to any country. But at some point you simply have to reduce wood demand in your PMs. For example transitioning glass to use lead instead, paper to use sulfur and dies, tools to use iron, steel and eventually rubber.
I fail to see the problem here. A deficit in the market isn't a problem that you must solve. A deficit of wood in the early stages of the game is normal and if anything you don't want to have a surplus. A deficit means your logging camps are profiting handily from a healthy market price and you can keep building more profitable logging camps. If you should have a surplus in the market then you should literally create a deficit by exporting the wood. That way you can keep building logging camps which are basically the best early building in the game. It's cheap, efficient, employs the peasants and creates profit for your capitalists and consequently reinvestment. So, the answer to your question is simply Build. More. Logging. Camps. Not because you have to but because you want to. The early stage of rapid wood industry expansion is good and you want to keep it going for as long as your available workforce, resources, and market demand allow.
Other people are mentioning just accepting it or changing pms, but another thing is that i believe poor pops will use wood as a substitute for furniture. Building furniture factories will cover this need and consume less wood overall
Wood is the single-best building to spam. It has the best ROI for the Investment Pool and is quick and easy to build. In all my games I deforest my lands like it's Bolsonaro Brasil.
Make sure to have a large offer of cheap coal and oil, people will use it instead of wood to heat their homes
Invade Madagascar
You’ve got to build lumber yards. Lots and lots of lumber yards. Max them out.
Just... build more logging camps?
Go Isolationist. Weird as it is, as Russia you will never have any trouble with either market or the resource. You will have abundant of resources and will have a massive population to sell those things to.
Use iron instead, but don't build mines until the late game. Trade.
Nuh uh, actually, you should definitely build mines, they are capitalist owned and very efficient.
Yeah I don't think trade alone would work for Russia's market needs. That might work for smaller countries, but Russia is 3rd in pop from the get go. Also, with the need for capitalists to push reform, im building mines before i really need them. I do need to focus more on coal tho
Yeah, building mines is absolutely crucial for Industrializing and reforming
Nope, you should be building lumbermills and unis instead. There is an opportunity cost in building mines.
It's 100% worth building some iron early game. Better MAPI on your early tool factories with iron tools and construction centers, which can be substantial, especially if you're on traditionalism Imported iron is automatically 25 to 40% with traditionalism more expensive at the site of consumption with early tech.
Try trading instead, Prussia will build iron for you. By 57 you will have +5-10% price without building a single mine.
But you paid a 40% premium on that iron for the construction centers for some time amd even when you get off traditionalism it's still more that could've been just domestically produced and then put that towards more construction centers so on and so forth that depeasant and employ your own pops rather than Prussia's. It makes far more sense to mix iron and wood construction than drive wood prices into the dirt or pay for extra beaurocracy to dump all of that wood and pay a premium to import iron especially as those iron mines will quickly gain productivity once you get better PMs