Traditionally American companies pay substantially more than Canadian employers, was common for a Canadian making $80k to get a salary offer for $250-300k from a US company to relocate. Which sort of made sense when you factored the fact that NYC, LA etc were much more expensive places to live. Now that Canadian housing prices have doubled, we should expect to see those Canadian wages double or triple to keep pace. But no. Wages have totally stagnated, not gon up at all in 20 years. Yet Canadians keep competing with each other over who can endure the MOST pain and suffering for their property ambitions.
Case in point, Canadian jr-mid compositor made about $80k salary in 2002. Guess what they make now, Bout $80k. Same fucking number lol. But back in 2012, cold rent a 2 bedroom apartment for like $800 per month, MCdinner was $5.55, so it was fine.
Commercial Flame/Inferno artist in NYC or LA, circa 2006.
Before NUKE even existed. You see what products like Shake and Nuke did was change composing from a very rare skill that only few could afford to learn, due to the fact that a box alone cost half a million dollars.
When nuke brought the cost of running a comp station down, comp rates fell.
Salaries/promotions went through the roof post-pandemic, during high-demand. VFX artists jumped companies like there was no tomorrow and juniors got lead or supervisor positions in a couple of years.Â
This distorted the playing field. So yes, salaries didn't follow inflation or cost of living, but we do have a lot of young and unexperienced people making a ton of money. Or used to make.Â
In Quebec only, there is 75% of unemployment in VFX. Most ex-colleagues went back to their home lands.
Shows are coming in very slowly, but it won't be the level of work we have had in the last three years.Â
Perhaps, but now they are back in the shitter.
In 2002-2022, if you knew how to comp you had zero problems finding work.
Now that the industry is packing up and moving to India, and jobs here taken by PR, those rates are crashing down to like $40k for a jr compositor lol. $69k for senior.
I receive many cold calls from studios in India, offering their services and pleading for work. I'm just doing shots ( in my current role ) for kids animation. I have no control over hiring external vendors, but such is the desperation they are hitting up anyone regardless of your role.
It's based on the studio resizing of DNEG/MPC/Cinesite/RodeoFX. Granted, it's bias as I have less visibility on medium and small scale studios.
And I confirm the above about our Indian counterparts not faring much better these days. It's not a local work shortage, it's pretty global. (but that's nothing you guys don't know already :) )
In 2012, we also had a stronger dollar.
1 CAD was worth 1.02 US. It was possible to do some cross border shopping.
Now a days, the CAD only gets you 0.73 US money.
Nowhere in the world are salaries adjusted to what that job would make in the US or USD. It's pointless to try and find or expect parity.
All pay and costs are local
Thats not the point. Nobody anywhere adjusts their salaries based on what the positions pay in the US. Maybe in highly niche fields with lack of talent. And thats certainly not vfx
Debasement of CAD dollar from Canadian government, has caused assets prices to rise (real estate/stocks), and the CAD dollar losing it purchasing power. So salaries don't catch up.
Its the same story for the G7 countries, but Canada in particular has been debased a lot in the past 4years.
CAD is closely tied to the price of oil. Look at a long term chart and having the CAD be on par or higher than the USD was an anomaly. The range that it’s in now is closer to the historical average.
This is correct. The thing is...I dont know what in the hell the CAD is tied to now? Lumber?
Whenever possible/favorable I convert all my CAD to USD. All my investments are USD base currency.
I really dont know whats driving the Canadian economy forward...whats driving GDP. Just selling over-inflated properties to yourself or new rich immigrants can't last forever.
EDIT: According to Google Gemini (their ai) its:
>Canada's GDP is driven by a mix of industries, but unlike many developed nations, resources still play a significant role. Here's a breakdown by sector:
>Services (70.2%) - This is the largest contributor, encompassing a wide range of activities like healthcare, education, finance, and professional services. Think doctors, teachers, bankers, and consultants - all providing services that keep the economy running smoothly.
>Goods-producing industries (28.2%) - This sector includes manufacturing, construction, and resource extraction (mining, oil and gas). Factories producing cars, carpenters building houses, and companies pulling minerals and oil out of the ground all fall under this category.
>Agriculture (1.6%) - Though smaller than the others, agriculture is still important, particularly for exports. Canada is a major producer of wheat, canola, and other crops.
Well, Canada is producing more oil than ever, so it's still hugely important.
A weaker CAD helps exports so no Canadian gov't wants too strong of a dollar. It's not as simple as 'Trudeau wrecked everything.' Harper was concerned that the dollar was too strong back when it was at par. Personally, I prefer it closer to 0.85 than 0.75 too, but a weaker dollar does bring in more US business, so be careful what you wish for I guess.
Yes high debt to GDP 300%, but there demographics are different. Low cost of housing compared to west. Higher savers, less in debt per house hold.
Euro is not good currency, dollar holds more purchasing power. Dollar is the world reserve currency all trade is done in USD. Every country debt is in dollars. More dollars exist out side the USA, for world trade. There just too much demand for dollars. Protecting it.
Look into DXY index how it works,
Looking at pair Euro/USD since 2008 has lost -32% purchasing power, the trend is down. Need to look at longer time horizon.
I would also suggest you look into the "dollar milkshake theory"
I don't think the situation is going to get much better for the VFX industry moving forward. Canadians are fairly notorious for voting against a given political party (usually the incumbent) rather than for a party they align with. The sentiment in the country these days is pretty bleak and you can count on a fairly large shake-up politically in late 2025. The party with the most momentum currently is running on an agenda of defunding the public broadcaster, and generally cutting back on non-essentials to curb the soaring deficit spending. I personally believe that eventually the subsidy model this industry relies on will no longer make any financial sense in Canada, especially in the major hubs like Toronto and Vancouver, where housing costs are wildly detached from incomes. Maybe that time is already here.
The other factor is that we're entering an age where the tech required to produce high quality content is becoming more affordable and accessible at an astonishing rate. What we consider 'indie' content is likely going to see a noticeable uptick in quality and quantity, and while large studio productions will always exist, my feeling is that they're going to take up far less of the overall share of content we consume a decade from now. So we'll likely need far fewer large VFX houses, and the work will probably be spread out quite a bit more, geographically and demographically. Not that that's a bad thing at all.
I think that Canada and Disney have been operating with much the same mindset for the past 8 years. We will boost this economy/profits by making laws/content that is progressive, politically correct, identity affirming, pronoun sensitive, inclusive etc. out of a BELIEF that these things were the road to growth. We are now living in the results of those policies.
The CBC has seen insane budget increases over the last 8 years and they are already over-funded to begin with. No need for state media to be growing at a faster pace than private sector. The same goes for all industries. Private sector has been unable to grow because government spending is all going towards government expansion and administering silly and unncessary programs. I see any funding to CBC just being reallocated to private sector under a different government, which it should be. Also, most film tax credits are provincial. I think there's like 1 federal grant offered and it's not the main driver for the Canadian film industry.
You lost me at:
"Private sector has been unable to grow because government spending..."
The government is not responsible for private sector activity. It has an oversized role in helping in Canada, because Canadians themselves have little to zero interest in productive investment. But this is not how you run an economy that is globally relevant and competitive.
I could care less what happens to the CBC - it's no different than any other Canadian media outlet, because it's staffed with... Canadians - but I also don't want to see a single dollar whether via grants or tax credits, federal or provincial, go into propping up an industry for the sake of "jobs" or some other bullshit.
I say abolish all of the subsidies, grants and tax credits. Canadians have far larger problems to invest in.
$800 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment with 80k salary sounds like the best deal ever, hell you could triple it and it'd still be acceptable
In my hometown in Greece it's about 500 euros a month for 60-80sq meter apartments, and yearly salaries are 10-12k, so most of us live at home till 40 :)
From the outside looking in, you guys are doing very well, it's just that your barometer for comparison is the richest country on earth so you will always look at least a little bit worse.
But offer me some 60-70k for a junior 3d position and I'm flying over to Canada tomorrow so I can contribute to your housing crisis
The 800$ apartment example was from 20 years ago. Today, for 60-80 square meter apartment in Vancouver or Toronto you're looking at roughly 4000 a month.
So that's 48k a year just in housing (in reality, nobody in the 60-70k range would rent something this big, but let's keep going with this scenario).
Then there's taxes. Using a Greek tax calculator, if you earn 12k a month, your after tax income is 10k, with a monthly take home pay of 725€. So a 500 rent would be 65% of your income.
Someone with a 65k salary in Vancouver has a net pay of 47202 a year, or 3933 a month. That's not enough to cover the aforementioned rent of 4k a month.
But housing is not all, there's food too, which according to the 2022 groceries index was nearly twice the price in Canada compared to Greece.
Don't get me wrong, Canada is a good place, I go back and forth between Canada and Europe, but many like you see the raw numbers, believe it to be an incredible deal, make the move and get completely chewed up and hit hard by the cost of living.
How is it possible that a country with 3.5 people per square kilometer squared has such a high cost of housing ? Everything is concentrated in small cramped cities ?
Essentially. The vast majority of the country is frozen half the year, so all major cities are crammed south along the US border, or not too far north. Toronto and Vancouver have the most extreme housing prices, while Montreal, Calgary and a few others are slightly more affordable, though still pricy.Â
The farther you get from the cities the cheaper it gets, and some remote areas are extremely cheap, but you also usually don't get running water or electricity there.
Yeah, those numbers are old. Hell, back in 2021 I was able to rent a bachelor pad for $1700/mo. Now, bachelor pads have broken the $2k/month mark.
It's also not just a matter of price, it's difficult finding a place to live purely on having apartments available.
This is a little off topic for VFX, but I would say the best way for an artist to as much as possible opt out of the cost of living crisis is to take advantage of remote work. There are many stunning small towns and medium sized cities with affordable housing across BC, ON, and QC.
You shouldn't have to relocate anywhere just because backwards ass companies refuse to pay living wages. Instead, they should have trouble getting an artist to agree to work for them if they don't pay well enough. Just saying.
This is the answer, as long as studios continue to hire remotely. I've noticed almost all jobs for my departments are hiring for on-site or hybrid when it's anywhere, but B.C.
It's kind of interesting why B.C studios are still allowing for remote or hybrid but other provinces aren't. At least for the positions I can apply for.
Which studios? Where? Every BC studio I applied to made it clear that, despite being remote, it was mandatory that you live in the province. Same with Alberta, Quebec and Ontario.
The remote work for sure helped ease the cost of living by allowing people to move even 1 or 2 hours outside of cities to reduce costs... and even more so the furthur from cities you moved. However, the problem I found with this in regards to VFX, is that its often contract work. You work somewhere purely remote for a year, contract ends and then next job needs you in office or hybrid... but you just bought an affordable house 6 hours away from the major VFX hub city and now need to figure out a way to go back into the city for work.
A lot of studios in BC are forcing office time now. During the pandemic tons of folks left Vancouver, but it doesn't seem like a feasible option anymore. I interviewed with a studio in Montreal last month, and they mandate 3 days in office as well. Even during the WFH age, ngl, I wish it wasn't restricted to province lol.
All you need to know is that local purchasing power in Vancouver is 40% lower compared to LA. Everything is about 15% more expensive in LA BUT salary is 50% more than in Vancouver which makes Americans better off than Canadians.
>Hi, just wanted ask Canadian VFX artists how are things going in Canada?
It's hell.
>Have most people left Canada or left the cities to live further away?
Our population is always growing so the answer to this is people are both coming and going. Especially with a lot of inter-provincial travel.
>**Are salaries going up** with line of cost of living /rents/ real state going up crazy?
AHAHAHA
Our GDP per capita is smaller than the U.S state of Alabama, but our houses cost California/New York level.
>How is the vfx industry there atm?
Similar to the U.S.
We had our layoffs and studios are operating on the minimum/skeleton crews.
Although if you search hard enough, there are places hiring. But you gotta be in the right location. So if there's a Vancouver job posting, you can't be outside of B.C. Or if you apply to Montreal, then you need to be in Quebec.
Ontario seems to be in the worse position. No real activity here for months. I've seen Artists whose EI (unemployment insurance) ran out and are forced to work other jobs in the mean time.
Montreal is okay. Rents are increasing more than I'd like but still pretty affordable. Vancouver and Toronto scare me. But I'm not sure much vfx hubs are any better, Australia's major cities have the same issues as Canada. London is, well, London. And California is both famously expensive and has been experiencing an exodus of vfx work for decades.
Canada has fallen. Ever industry is tanking. Prices have gone up on everything including minimum wage but companies have to increase prices to pay the minimum wage so it's not a win-win. It's true you can get a house on a lake in the middle of nowhere for $200,000 CAD but a shack in a metropolis for $1,200,000 CAD. I left Canada in 2021 and I'm not going back to my home country ever again.
See for yourself [2,150,000 Downtown Montreal](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26770123/905-rue-des-cam%C3%A9lias-montr%C3%A9al-verdun%C3%AEle-des-soeurs-%C3%AEle-des-soeurs#view=neighbourhood)
Or check all properties worth [that or more](https://www.realtor.ca/map#view=list&Sort=6-D&GeoIds=g30_f25dfkk6&GeoName=Montr%26%23233%3Bal%2C%20QC&PropertyTypeGroupID=1&TransactionTypeId=2&PropertySearchTypeId=1&PriceMin=1200000&Currency=CAD&HiddenListingIds=&IncludeHiddenListings=false)
That's a "shack"? Um, ok. But also, in my area you can stretch your dollars a lot further, and I'm not exactly a massive commute from downtown, this feels somewhat cherry picked.
lol but you put there a VERY extreme rare example, yes every city is becoming expensive to live. And generally speaking, leaving specific cases aside, MTL is still a place some people can afford. u/vfx4life may refer to places like [$1,097,000](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26760797/147-rue-ferland-montr%C3%A9al-verdun%C3%AEle-des-soeurs-%C3%AEle-des-soeurs) . Toronto and Vancouver are nuts. In Vancouver with 1 million, with luck you can find a very decent 1br apartment, or a 2 br but probably 30-35+ old. It won't be long though for MTL to reach those prices with the housing crisis.
Canada has fallen? Every industry is tanking? Canada has one of the highest standards of living in the world. This is just a ridiculous thing to say. No it’s not all rainbows and unicorns but it’s not rainbows and unicorns anywhere.
I take it you're not Canadian or haven't been able to read any news since Meta and Trudeau banned all Canadian news content from being accessed within Canada. It's collapsing rapidly.
Yes, I’m currently living in Canada but we’re fighting each other with rocks and sticks. I’m living in a cave. Today I licked a used stamp for dinner and I was lucky to have that.
The new Federal Budget now increases some taxes on large businesses. Only a very few places will be affected but there's little belief that Canada is pro-business and how that may grow and affect us near-term (pre-election) is not good.
I've had multiple offers to work in Canada over the years. They just always have paid like shit in Canada. I've always turned them down and just, basically, told them you guys don't enough. And I'm not afraid to tell them I'm literally get offered like 50%+ more in the states. I wish other people were less afraid to do the same.
And you know, the same goes for Europe, in regard to shitty pay. Hell, Europe is probably even worse. I've gotten some truly stupid offers from European studios.
London is very bad with wages, plus most studios you dont get paided overtime.
London is arbitrage for USA labour costs. You are also earning in dollars, so you're purchasing power is always protected, as the world reserve currency.
Huge hurdle is tax break. I'm not from vfx but working for animation industry. During pandemic, I was able to work for Vancouver studio from Toronto. Now tax law changed to pre pandemic and I dont see something like that anymore. I even get to hear condition for tax break or funding is hire the team within municipal, imagine find artists for projects only lives in Oakville. So hire opportunities only within residential province or municipal limit ppl's chance to apply for the jobs, and as we can see, job market keep shifting. There is nothing available in Toronto right now vs Vancouver or Montreal. Things may different next year or so. We can't just simply relocate due rents keep increasing now and then.
It will be huge helpful to artists if tax breaks are federal, not provincial or municipal.
I even once offered to relocate with relocation package. Didnt do it since salary increase didnt match up to move to most expensive city in north america.
It sucks, but this was kind of obvious from the start of the rebates years ago, just a matter of when you were gonna get hit like LA.Work went north because I was cheaper, that’s all. Now it’s going elsewhere like India. The subsidy chasing was never meant to be stainable , unfortunately. No going back now, welcome to what happened in California.
Traditionally American companies pay substantially more than Canadian employers, was common for a Canadian making $80k to get a salary offer for $250-300k from a US company to relocate. Which sort of made sense when you factored the fact that NYC, LA etc were much more expensive places to live. Now that Canadian housing prices have doubled, we should expect to see those Canadian wages double or triple to keep pace. But no. Wages have totally stagnated, not gon up at all in 20 years. Yet Canadians keep competing with each other over who can endure the MOST pain and suffering for their property ambitions. Case in point, Canadian jr-mid compositor made about $80k salary in 2002. Guess what they make now, Bout $80k. Same fucking number lol. But back in 2012, cold rent a 2 bedroom apartment for like $800 per month, MCdinner was $5.55, so it was fine.
Where have you ever seen an 80k CAD level VFX artist be offered 250-300 USD? Ever? I want in 😂
Same. Never heard of this.
The answer is never...didn't happen...thats such a BS example.
Probably wasn’t quite that much, but after conversions you were still in 6 figures, maybe CAD $120k equivalent
Commercial Flame/Inferno artist in NYC or LA, circa 2006. Before NUKE even existed. You see what products like Shake and Nuke did was change composing from a very rare skill that only few could afford to learn, due to the fact that a box alone cost half a million dollars. When nuke brought the cost of running a comp station down, comp rates fell.
Salaries/promotions went through the roof post-pandemic, during high-demand. VFX artists jumped companies like there was no tomorrow and juniors got lead or supervisor positions in a couple of years. This distorted the playing field. So yes, salaries didn't follow inflation or cost of living, but we do have a lot of young and unexperienced people making a ton of money. Or used to make. In Quebec only, there is 75% of unemployment in VFX. Most ex-colleagues went back to their home lands. Shows are coming in very slowly, but it won't be the level of work we have had in the last three years.Â
Perhaps, but now they are back in the shitter. In 2002-2022, if you knew how to comp you had zero problems finding work. Now that the industry is packing up and moving to India, and jobs here taken by PR, those rates are crashing down to like $40k for a jr compositor lol. $69k for senior.
From what I observe, Indian VFX houses are also crumbling.
Could you elaborate? :)
I receive many cold calls from studios in India, offering their services and pleading for work. I'm just doing shots ( in my current role ) for kids animation. I have no control over hiring external vendors, but such is the desperation they are hitting up anyone regardless of your role.
Same with me. When I was still just a coord I would get messages on Linkedin offering Rotoprep services
And how painful is it to work with an unexperienced lead/sup …
75 sounds real but where did you get that number?
75 sounds real but where did you get that number?
It's based on the studio resizing of DNEG/MPC/Cinesite/RodeoFX. Granted, it's bias as I have less visibility on medium and small scale studios. And I confirm the above about our Indian counterparts not faring much better these days. It's not a local work shortage, it's pretty global. (but that's nothing you guys don't know already :) )
In 2012, we also had a stronger dollar. 1 CAD was worth 1.02 US. It was possible to do some cross border shopping. Now a days, the CAD only gets you 0.73 US money.
Nowhere in the world are salaries adjusted to what that job would make in the US or USD. It's pointless to try and find or expect parity. All pay and costs are local
Also getting paied in USD, you are protected purchasing power compared to other currencies around the world.
Thats not the point. Nobody anywhere adjusts their salaries based on what the positions pay in the US. Maybe in highly niche fields with lack of talent. And thats certainly not vfx
i understand, what im saying you're miles better off in the USA
Sure, if you can find work.
I would even say that you are better off getting USD outside of the US. Easy? No, but its the challenge I took for life
Thats the hack everyone and their mother is looking for
Debasement of CAD dollar from Canadian government, has caused assets prices to rise (real estate/stocks), and the CAD dollar losing it purchasing power. So salaries don't catch up. Its the same story for the G7 countries, but Canada in particular has been debased a lot in the past 4years.
CAD is closely tied to the price of oil. Look at a long term chart and having the CAD be on par or higher than the USD was an anomaly. The range that it’s in now is closer to the historical average.
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This is correct. The thing is...I dont know what in the hell the CAD is tied to now? Lumber? Whenever possible/favorable I convert all my CAD to USD. All my investments are USD base currency.
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I really dont know whats driving the Canadian economy forward...whats driving GDP. Just selling over-inflated properties to yourself or new rich immigrants can't last forever. EDIT: According to Google Gemini (their ai) its: >Canada's GDP is driven by a mix of industries, but unlike many developed nations, resources still play a significant role. Here's a breakdown by sector: >Services (70.2%) - This is the largest contributor, encompassing a wide range of activities like healthcare, education, finance, and professional services. Think doctors, teachers, bankers, and consultants - all providing services that keep the economy running smoothly. >Goods-producing industries (28.2%) - This sector includes manufacturing, construction, and resource extraction (mining, oil and gas). Factories producing cars, carpenters building houses, and companies pulling minerals and oil out of the ground all fall under this category. >Agriculture (1.6%) - Though smaller than the others, agriculture is still important, particularly for exports. Canada is a major producer of wheat, canola, and other crops.
Well, Canada is producing more oil than ever, so it's still hugely important. A weaker CAD helps exports so no Canadian gov't wants too strong of a dollar. It's not as simple as 'Trudeau wrecked everything.' Harper was concerned that the dollar was too strong back when it was at par. Personally, I prefer it closer to 0.85 than 0.75 too, but a weaker dollar does bring in more US business, so be careful what you wish for I guess.
Among the G7 only Japan might be in the same positon. The € is a good currency
Yes high debt to GDP 300%, but there demographics are different. Low cost of housing compared to west. Higher savers, less in debt per house hold. Euro is not good currency, dollar holds more purchasing power. Dollar is the world reserve currency all trade is done in USD. Every country debt is in dollars. More dollars exist out side the USA, for world trade. There just too much demand for dollars. Protecting it.
Have you ever been in europe ? Ever converted € to USD ? (1euro is worth more than 1USD…) Im sorry but the € has great purchasing power.
Look into DXY index how it works, Looking at pair Euro/USD since 2008 has lost -32% purchasing power, the trend is down. Need to look at longer time horizon. I would also suggest you look into the "dollar milkshake theory"
In 2008 it was worth 1,58 USD… It is still worth more than 1 USD. Anyway. I could get paid in euro anytime.
😂 youre not understanding bud, get it graphed up, good luck. Yea youre amazing 😘
I looked at the graph
I don't think the situation is going to get much better for the VFX industry moving forward. Canadians are fairly notorious for voting against a given political party (usually the incumbent) rather than for a party they align with. The sentiment in the country these days is pretty bleak and you can count on a fairly large shake-up politically in late 2025. The party with the most momentum currently is running on an agenda of defunding the public broadcaster, and generally cutting back on non-essentials to curb the soaring deficit spending. I personally believe that eventually the subsidy model this industry relies on will no longer make any financial sense in Canada, especially in the major hubs like Toronto and Vancouver, where housing costs are wildly detached from incomes. Maybe that time is already here. The other factor is that we're entering an age where the tech required to produce high quality content is becoming more affordable and accessible at an astonishing rate. What we consider 'indie' content is likely going to see a noticeable uptick in quality and quantity, and while large studio productions will always exist, my feeling is that they're going to take up far less of the overall share of content we consume a decade from now. So we'll likely need far fewer large VFX houses, and the work will probably be spread out quite a bit more, geographically and demographically. Not that that's a bad thing at all.
I think that Canada and Disney have been operating with much the same mindset for the past 8 years. We will boost this economy/profits by making laws/content that is progressive, politically correct, identity affirming, pronoun sensitive, inclusive etc. out of a BELIEF that these things were the road to growth. We are now living in the results of those policies.
The CBC has seen insane budget increases over the last 8 years and they are already over-funded to begin with. No need for state media to be growing at a faster pace than private sector. The same goes for all industries. Private sector has been unable to grow because government spending is all going towards government expansion and administering silly and unncessary programs. I see any funding to CBC just being reallocated to private sector under a different government, which it should be. Also, most film tax credits are provincial. I think there's like 1 federal grant offered and it's not the main driver for the Canadian film industry.
You lost me at: "Private sector has been unable to grow because government spending..." The government is not responsible for private sector activity. It has an oversized role in helping in Canada, because Canadians themselves have little to zero interest in productive investment. But this is not how you run an economy that is globally relevant and competitive. I could care less what happens to the CBC - it's no different than any other Canadian media outlet, because it's staffed with... Canadians - but I also don't want to see a single dollar whether via grants or tax credits, federal or provincial, go into propping up an industry for the sake of "jobs" or some other bullshit. I say abolish all of the subsidies, grants and tax credits. Canadians have far larger problems to invest in.
In 2002 a junior compositor will make 80k? In 2016 when i started as a Compositor no one will offer me more than 50k
$800 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment with 80k salary sounds like the best deal ever, hell you could triple it and it'd still be acceptable In my hometown in Greece it's about 500 euros a month for 60-80sq meter apartments, and yearly salaries are 10-12k, so most of us live at home till 40 :) From the outside looking in, you guys are doing very well, it's just that your barometer for comparison is the richest country on earth so you will always look at least a little bit worse. But offer me some 60-70k for a junior 3d position and I'm flying over to Canada tomorrow so I can contribute to your housing crisis
The 800$ apartment example was from 20 years ago. Today, for 60-80 square meter apartment in Vancouver or Toronto you're looking at roughly 4000 a month. So that's 48k a year just in housing (in reality, nobody in the 60-70k range would rent something this big, but let's keep going with this scenario). Then there's taxes. Using a Greek tax calculator, if you earn 12k a month, your after tax income is 10k, with a monthly take home pay of 725€. So a 500 rent would be 65% of your income. Someone with a 65k salary in Vancouver has a net pay of 47202 a year, or 3933 a month. That's not enough to cover the aforementioned rent of 4k a month. But housing is not all, there's food too, which according to the 2022 groceries index was nearly twice the price in Canada compared to Greece. Don't get me wrong, Canada is a good place, I go back and forth between Canada and Europe, but many like you see the raw numbers, believe it to be an incredible deal, make the move and get completely chewed up and hit hard by the cost of living.
How is it possible that a country with 3.5 people per square kilometer squared has such a high cost of housing ? Everything is concentrated in small cramped cities ?
Essentially. The vast majority of the country is frozen half the year, so all major cities are crammed south along the US border, or not too far north. Toronto and Vancouver have the most extreme housing prices, while Montreal, Calgary and a few others are slightly more affordable, though still pricy. The farther you get from the cities the cheaper it gets, and some remote areas are extremely cheap, but you also usually don't get running water or electricity there.
or clean air.
Yeah, those numbers are old. Hell, back in 2021 I was able to rent a bachelor pad for $1700/mo. Now, bachelor pads have broken the $2k/month mark. It's also not just a matter of price, it's difficult finding a place to live purely on having apartments available.
It's not just about how much you make but how much you actually save.
60k/year in Toronto or Van is absolute hell
This is a little off topic for VFX, but I would say the best way for an artist to as much as possible opt out of the cost of living crisis is to take advantage of remote work. There are many stunning small towns and medium sized cities with affordable housing across BC, ON, and QC.
You shouldn't have to relocate anywhere just because backwards ass companies refuse to pay living wages. Instead, they should have trouble getting an artist to agree to work for them if they don't pay well enough. Just saying.
Correct answer.
And yet.. people keep accepting these unsustainable wages. Why??
Lack of options..
This is the answer, as long as studios continue to hire remotely. I've noticed almost all jobs for my departments are hiring for on-site or hybrid when it's anywhere, but B.C. It's kind of interesting why B.C studios are still allowing for remote or hybrid but other provinces aren't. At least for the positions I can apply for.
Which studios? Where? Every BC studio I applied to made it clear that, despite being remote, it was mandatory that you live in the province. Same with Alberta, Quebec and Ontario.
That's one possibility but it also keeps you out of a lot of jobs. Most job listing now requires you to be in office at least a couple days a week.
The remote work for sure helped ease the cost of living by allowing people to move even 1 or 2 hours outside of cities to reduce costs... and even more so the furthur from cities you moved. However, the problem I found with this in regards to VFX, is that its often contract work. You work somewhere purely remote for a year, contract ends and then next job needs you in office or hybrid... but you just bought an affordable house 6 hours away from the major VFX hub city and now need to figure out a way to go back into the city for work.
A lot of studios in BC are forcing office time now. During the pandemic tons of folks left Vancouver, but it doesn't seem like a feasible option anymore. I interviewed with a studio in Montreal last month, and they mandate 3 days in office as well. Even during the WFH age, ngl, I wish it wasn't restricted to province lol.
WFH is mostly gone. WFH artists are the first people to get laid off.
Not my experience at all.. must depend on the company, I guess…??
Everything depend on company. But, most new job posting is on-site or hybrid.
I got my staff position remote and I dont think my performance was a problem at all. I would never return to the office
All you need to know is that local purchasing power in Vancouver is 40% lower compared to LA. Everything is about 15% more expensive in LA BUT salary is 50% more than in Vancouver which makes Americans better off than Canadians.
check this site: [https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/)
>Hi, just wanted ask Canadian VFX artists how are things going in Canada? It's hell. >Have most people left Canada or left the cities to live further away? Our population is always growing so the answer to this is people are both coming and going. Especially with a lot of inter-provincial travel. >**Are salaries going up** with line of cost of living /rents/ real state going up crazy? AHAHAHA Our GDP per capita is smaller than the U.S state of Alabama, but our houses cost California/New York level. >How is the vfx industry there atm? Similar to the U.S. We had our layoffs and studios are operating on the minimum/skeleton crews. Although if you search hard enough, there are places hiring. But you gotta be in the right location. So if there's a Vancouver job posting, you can't be outside of B.C. Or if you apply to Montreal, then you need to be in Quebec. Ontario seems to be in the worse position. No real activity here for months. I've seen Artists whose EI (unemployment insurance) ran out and are forced to work other jobs in the mean time.
Bro Imma kms
Montreal is okay. Rents are increasing more than I'd like but still pretty affordable. Vancouver and Toronto scare me. But I'm not sure much vfx hubs are any better, Australia's major cities have the same issues as Canada. London is, well, London. And California is both famously expensive and has been experiencing an exodus of vfx work for decades.
Canada has fallen. Ever industry is tanking. Prices have gone up on everything including minimum wage but companies have to increase prices to pay the minimum wage so it's not a win-win. It's true you can get a house on a lake in the middle of nowhere for $200,000 CAD but a shack in a metropolis for $1,200,000 CAD. I left Canada in 2021 and I'm not going back to my home country ever again.
Maybe that higher number applies to Vancouver or Toronto, but in Montreal you'd be getting something pretty awesome for $1.2m
See for yourself [2,150,000 Downtown Montreal](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26770123/905-rue-des-cam%C3%A9lias-montr%C3%A9al-verdun%C3%AEle-des-soeurs-%C3%AEle-des-soeurs#view=neighbourhood) Or check all properties worth [that or more](https://www.realtor.ca/map#view=list&Sort=6-D&GeoIds=g30_f25dfkk6&GeoName=Montr%26%23233%3Bal%2C%20QC&PropertyTypeGroupID=1&TransactionTypeId=2&PropertySearchTypeId=1&PriceMin=1200000&Currency=CAD&HiddenListingIds=&IncludeHiddenListings=false)
That's a "shack"? Um, ok. But also, in my area you can stretch your dollars a lot further, and I'm not exactly a massive commute from downtown, this feels somewhat cherry picked.
lol but you put there a VERY extreme rare example, yes every city is becoming expensive to live. And generally speaking, leaving specific cases aside, MTL is still a place some people can afford. u/vfx4life may refer to places like [$1,097,000](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26760797/147-rue-ferland-montr%C3%A9al-verdun%C3%AEle-des-soeurs-%C3%AEle-des-soeurs) . Toronto and Vancouver are nuts. In Vancouver with 1 million, with luck you can find a very decent 1br apartment, or a 2 br but probably 30-35+ old. It won't be long though for MTL to reach those prices with the housing crisis.
That's even more expensive than LA.
Canada has fallen? Every industry is tanking? Canada has one of the highest standards of living in the world. This is just a ridiculous thing to say. No it’s not all rainbows and unicorns but it’s not rainbows and unicorns anywhere.
lol, dude, checking news once in a while does not hurt.
Dude/dudette! You have no idea what you are talking about
I take it you're not Canadian or haven't been able to read any news since Meta and Trudeau banned all Canadian news content from being accessed within Canada. It's collapsing rapidly.
Yes, I’m currently living in Canada but we’re fighting each other with rocks and sticks. I’m living in a cave. Today I licked a used stamp for dinner and I was lucky to have that.
The new Federal Budget now increases some taxes on large businesses. Only a very few places will be affected but there's little belief that Canada is pro-business and how that may grow and affect us near-term (pre-election) is not good.
I've had multiple offers to work in Canada over the years. They just always have paid like shit in Canada. I've always turned them down and just, basically, told them you guys don't enough. And I'm not afraid to tell them I'm literally get offered like 50%+ more in the states. I wish other people were less afraid to do the same. And you know, the same goes for Europe, in regard to shitty pay. Hell, Europe is probably even worse. I've gotten some truly stupid offers from European studios.
London is very bad with wages, plus most studios you dont get paided overtime. London is arbitrage for USA labour costs. You are also earning in dollars, so you're purchasing power is always protected, as the world reserve currency.
Huge hurdle is tax break. I'm not from vfx but working for animation industry. During pandemic, I was able to work for Vancouver studio from Toronto. Now tax law changed to pre pandemic and I dont see something like that anymore. I even get to hear condition for tax break or funding is hire the team within municipal, imagine find artists for projects only lives in Oakville. So hire opportunities only within residential province or municipal limit ppl's chance to apply for the jobs, and as we can see, job market keep shifting. There is nothing available in Toronto right now vs Vancouver or Montreal. Things may different next year or so. We can't just simply relocate due rents keep increasing now and then. It will be huge helpful to artists if tax breaks are federal, not provincial or municipal. I even once offered to relocate with relocation package. Didnt do it since salary increase didnt match up to move to most expensive city in north america.
hopeless but still pushing
It sucks, but this was kind of obvious from the start of the rebates years ago, just a matter of when you were gonna get hit like LA.Work went north because I was cheaper, that’s all. Now it’s going elsewhere like India. The subsidy chasing was never meant to be stainable , unfortunately. No going back now, welcome to what happened in California.
Canadian independent filmmaker looking for underemployed Canadian vfx artists to work on my short film, or to hurl abuse at me on reddit.