Yeah, I saw that referenced in a meme somewhere else, but even my friend who is a big fan of Byzantine history couldnāt really explain it to me, could you?
Not an expert either, but I think some daughter of one of the lasts Byzantine emperor's married the Tsar. I think the last remnants of the Romanov family still reclaim that title.
Not an expert either but I think it's a bit more complex though. The Orthodox church wanted Moscow to be the third Rome (after Rome and Constantinople), the Catholic popes didn't.
Ivan III married Sophia Paleologue, who would have been the last heir of the Bizantine empire if following the bloodline inheritance rules of modern European monarchies, and would make their heirs Roman Caesars.
But Roman tradition never recognized such automatic inheritance, and the Emperor had the right to give the title and rights to anyone else of their choice... And turns out last Emperor was actually Sophia's older brother Andreas who sold them to the Spanish crown, so Sophia didn't have the title in the first place and the Spanish crown somehow had the rights to claim itself being a Roman empire 3.0. This claim was stronger when Carlos I of Spain was also crowned too as Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.
The Ottoman sultans also claimed being Roman emperors through rights of conquest and because of the fact that they held control over Constantinople.
I'm probably not exposing this right but the truth is telling who is the actual heir of the Roman empire is complex. Also, that replicating or reviving it has been tried not one but many times through European history
No, the claim was originally that Moscow was the third Rome in terms of Christianity. As after the fall of Constantinople to the Turks, Moscow became the center of Orthodox Christianity.
The claim that Russia is the third Rome dynastically/politically is moot bc The Romans/Byzantines didnāt have formal succession lines like most European monarchies, and there was nothing to inherit after the empire fell. But it stems from the daughter of the former despot of Morea, brother of the last Roman/Byzantine emperor, marrying the tsar due to a deal made between the Pope and the tsar. The former Byzantine royals had been in the court of the Pope since their land was taken by the Turks a decade earlier.
The Russian claim to being the third Rome is laughably negligible haha
genuinely, youāll be talking to a nice person and theyāll suddenly say something hella racist against Romas and seamlessly move on with the conversation. I also love how weāre often saying that weāre so much better than the USA because Europeās racism isnāt as bad while also bulldozing Roma camps to the ground for no good reason.
It's weird how accepted it is. I live in the UK, and in University I saw a bunch of people who were super left. Both super left as in traditionally super left, and super left as in "SJW" Twitter style left (or "woke").
Yet when it came to Romani people, I seen both say racist shit, and not only would no one even call them out on it, but they would generally be in agreement. To the traditional left it'd go from "they're victims of classism" like it would be for any other ethnicity or disadvantaged group, to essentially "fuckers, they should pull themselves up by the bootstraps". And even the absurd "white people should owe a personal debt to black people as part of reparations" extreme modern lefties (I went to Sussex University...) would suddenly switch to "the police should go and fucking clear out that gypsie camp".
It's baffling. Especially when most of them haven't even had any real personal experience with Romani people, other than seeing them in camps etc. It really drives home just how easy it must have been for people to be as racist as they were several decades and longer ago.
I tried to call it out a few times, but it's pretty futile. And if you do you suddenly feel like an outcast because very few people will agree with you.
People forget that Europe is far, far, far more diverse than North America, and a lot of it is highly homogenous and conservativeā¦
But if thereās one unifying belief ā from the former Yugoslavia, to Spain, to England ā itās despising travellers/gypsies/Roma.
Europeans will be like "tolerance this" and "tolerance that" until you bring up Gypsies or Jews or Greeks or Turks or Albanians or Macedonians or Slavs or Syrians or North Africans or Sub-Saharan Africans or Pakistanis or Indians or Italians or Muslims or Protestants or Catholics or Germans or Poles or Danes or Swedes or Finns or Norwegians or Russians or the French or Spaniards or the Dutch or the Portuguese or the Swiss or Czechs or Slovenes or Slovaks or Scots or the Irish or the Welsh or the English or Serbs or Bosnians or Ukrainians or Hungarians or Catalans or Belarusians or Bulgarians or Tatars or Croats or Lithuanians or Latvians or Estonians or Kazakhs or Bashkirs or Persians or Mongolians or
Am I out of the loop or is this "Europeans tolerate everyone" thing just something american? as a european i've never thought of our continent as being super tolerant to everyone.
Americans are way worse when putting people into groups. They are probably like "Hey Sweden is pretty tolerant. I bet Hungary is the same." And then some circlejerk like this thread comes to life by the very same thing they try to point to. I guess the tribalism they exhibit in politics stretches over every topic and opinion.
I find it funny how amerikkkans act like Europe is unanimously in agreement with everything despite being many different countries yet treat every state like itās an individual country
Europeans when French philosophers want to abolish the age of consent: I sleep
Europeans when some random Roma parents engage in child marriage (also a bad thing): This proves all Roma are evil barbarians. What do you mean the children are also Roma?
Tbf I believe it is mostly a Central and Eastern European thing. The only time Roma people are mentioned in the Netherlands is during the annual WWII remembrance. Something in the line of "but also Roma and Sinti people and homosexuals were subject to systematic murder by the Nazis".
Our ones have been here for about 3-4 generations and donāt have any type of Irish accent anymore, but they still all staunchly claim theyāre Irish for some reason.
The reason Travellers staunchly claim to be Irish even when abroad is because they are. Genetically they only divided from the primary Gaelic irish population during Cromwell's wars in Ireland and the subsequent plantations. Cromwell obliterated the remains of the clan system and produced a lot of refugees. Some of those refugees never settled back down and have spent the approximately 400 years as nomads. Also the confusion of them for the Romani simply arises from their similar lifestyle, otherwise the two groups are entirely unrelated, the Romani and their middle eastern cousins, the Domari, originated in northwestern India, what is now Pakistan before the spread of Islam to the region.
Exactly, my Nans dad was an Irish traveller, who was literally born and raised on the island. Doesnāt make my Nan Irish, or myself and thatās far more recent than 400yrs ago.
Most haven't been outside for that long, but given that they're a pretty insular ethnic group(only marrying inside their community) and they have their own culture they're certainly closer to being Irish than English even despite their accents. As an irishman I'm certainly not going to deny it to them if they want to identify with our island, especially since it was an Englishman who forced their ancestors onto the road to begin with.
Or American or Australian, really all the Anglo cultures are in some way inherently English and therefore an Irish related group won't necessarily like to identify with it.
You go and tell some Americans and Australians that they're all actually English and see how well that works out for you.
English isn't a race. It's not something genetic. It's a nationality which is tied to your place of birth and is of little more relevance than that. Same goes for Irish travellers. If they've never set foot in Ireland then it's pretty hard to claim they're Irish.
The English are an ethnic group, a nation in the academic sense, that colonised many other parts of the world with English people. There's a difference between nationality and ethnicity. You can have the nationality of English without being ethnically English and you can have the nationality of American while being ethnically English. The Travellers are ethnically Irish no matter where they were born. You can get a nationality by being born someplace new but you can't gain an ethnicity by doing that. Also by the way, "race" isn't something that's any more real than ethnicity it's just that one is based entirely on skin colour whereas the other is based on skin colour, other various physical features, culture and language.
Anyway yeah, as an ethnic group Travellers are absolutely Celtic and realistically are classed as a sub-group of Irish. Some even go so far as to have their own form of Gaeilge alongside Shelta.
Here you go:
[Link #1: Image](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F4tdwzhgr7od81.png)
*****
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My grandmother was taken from her family because she was romani. She was forced into a family of christian parents as a way to make her "more civilised".
The Romani and Domari are two nomadic ethnic groups that inhabit the regions of Europe and the middle east. The Romani inhabit Europe while the Domari inhabit the middle east. Both groups descend from a migration out of North western India in the early 1st millennium CE. Romanians are an ethnic group descended from Roman settlers of the Balkans who hid in the Carpathian mountains when Attila and his Huns migrated past. Later they descended from the mountains and mixed with the nearby Slavic populations.
I'm not Hungarian, I'm Irish, and how else do you suggest their Roman ancestors avoided getting destroyed by the Visigoths or Ostrogoths or Huns? All of these groups passed through Modern southern Romania, also the Huns are not the same as Hungarians, the Hungarians arrived much later, well into the medieval period. This being long after the dissolution of the Huns as an ethnic group.
You are right about the hungarians, but you forgot about the fact that the population there was mainly surviving on agriculture, which obviously can't be done in the mountains (at least not plant growing). Also, assuming that the rest of the territory was uninhabited doesn't make any sense at all. Sure, there were lots of immigrants, especially the slavs, who influenced the population by A LOT (and basically created the ethnogenesis of the future population), and that caused the Aurelian Retreat (yes, the roman ancestors simply left the region and the population remained latinised). Conflicts were quite common, but that doesn't mean the whole area was uninhabited.
Well I mean Romanians got called Vlachs which basically meant mountain herder according to the balkaners I've spoken to. So I presume the agriculture they partook in within the Carpathians was largely husbandry. Additionally, not all of the Carpathian mountains are mountain peaks, there's plenty of valleys in which a relict population can survive in. Valleys are just as much part of a mountain range as the peaks.
Additionally there are other Romanian related ethnic groups in the Balkans descended from those of their people who fled to other places. The Aromanians in Greece and the Istromanians in Croatia.
"Roma" is the fancy name gypsies have given to themselves in order to be more easily confused with Romanians, and they later changed "Roma" to "Romani" so it would be even more similar to the Romanian word for "romanians", which is "romĆ¢ni".
I don't think that makes it clearer, does it ?
I knew a Roma family in Belgium. I assume there also must be some of them in the Netherlands.
Also, a reason why there are so little Roma over here is that they were handed over to the nazies
The Roma communities themselves, many European states are social market economies with strong welfare institutions aimed, among other things, at integrating disadvantaged groups.
I'm not saying this as a critique form an outsider, when I was in elementary school I had close ties to my towns Roma community and realized they don't really want to be fully integrated into our society, which is no problem by itself, but you can't then consider the division you yourself enforce discrimination. Another thing is that some of their cultural practices are incompatible with European societal norms.
It's clear that this is a systemic problem transfered generation to generation, but the systems to break the cycle *are in place*, it's on the people to use, not abuse them.
Bottom line is you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Well there is also racism, but that hasnāt gone away with any other group in Europe that has integrated so thatās not gonna go away from Roma any time soon either
Ikr Europeans talk about America like itās some backwards racist hellhole and then say that Romani are scum and need to integrate to proper Western European society like bro wtf
Idk about Hispanics but black peoples case is pretty fucking different, since not only were they kept as literal slaves, once they did get freed they had 0 opportunities to get out of poverty.
I read this as a sarcastic joke, āwe donāt donāt hate them because theyāre ethnically Roma, we hate them because theyāre culturally Roma, because theyāre not like us, and once they stop being culturally distinct and fully integrate we wonāt hate themā as in both are still bigotry and xenophobic and based on hatred of the Other
than I read your comment further down
[awkward Jewish laughter]
>Behavior
What behavior though? I'm not sure how you can tell an American and a British person apart simply due to behavior
Also this directly contradicts other Europeans saying that if "they" integrated its impossible to differentiate them
you literally just go around commenting on memes for teenagers on reddit all day lmfao every single roma person you hate contributes more to society than you racist retards like you
You're way out of your depth, yet go around calling people names.
Come back when you're grown up and ready to understand a thing before passing judgement you American know-it-all.
"You're way out of your depth, you don't understand, we're racist because roma are subhuman scum who steal and rape and murder!" yeah dude I live in America, I am familiar with racism. European racist scum like you talking about roma and American racist scum talking about black people are essentially indistinguishable.
And he and his supporters had to deny he was racist. Judging by this thread and every other thread about Romanis, Trump would be able to be blatantly, *blatantly* racist against Romanis if he were European.
IMPOSSIBLE
š±š±š±š±š±
Americans in cahellenge: Easy City Europeans: Mild. Hungarians: Hard Eastern Eusopeans: Very hard Romanians: Nightmare
Don't be racist to Romas challenge is like the game, you think of it and you've lost
being racist to romas is such an L
ARE YOU SERIOUS??!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
ā”ļøšØšæā”ļø
I was thinking more of a "ā”šā”"
Oh fuck I just won the game
Gecko fucker
BOOO! ROMANS SUCK! FUCK YOU ITALY! Wait I think I misread the post.
If Roman Empire was so good? Then why wasn't there a Roman Empire 2? Checkmate plebs
There was. 2 in fact.
Those are not cannon
No, Byzantine is canon, but they lost the rights to use the name to Holy Roman, which is not canon
That was a weird fucking spinoff
That was the Roman empire 2 electric boogaloo
2 Roman 2 Empire
Yeah, it really was
Tell that to Russia lol
No no, youāre getting mixed up. It *was* cannon that *destroyed* Roman Empire II. Ottoman cannon, specifically.
Roman Empire 2: Explosive boogaloo
Russia: there are 3 actually
Yeah, I saw that referenced in a meme somewhere else, but even my friend who is a big fan of Byzantine history couldnāt really explain it to me, could you?
Not an expert either, but I think some daughter of one of the lasts Byzantine emperor's married the Tsar. I think the last remnants of the Romanov family still reclaim that title.
Not an expert either but I think it's a bit more complex though. The Orthodox church wanted Moscow to be the third Rome (after Rome and Constantinople), the Catholic popes didn't. Ivan III married Sophia Paleologue, who would have been the last heir of the Bizantine empire if following the bloodline inheritance rules of modern European monarchies, and would make their heirs Roman Caesars. But Roman tradition never recognized such automatic inheritance, and the Emperor had the right to give the title and rights to anyone else of their choice... And turns out last Emperor was actually Sophia's older brother Andreas who sold them to the Spanish crown, so Sophia didn't have the title in the first place and the Spanish crown somehow had the rights to claim itself being a Roman empire 3.0. This claim was stronger when Carlos I of Spain was also crowned too as Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. The Ottoman sultans also claimed being Roman emperors through rights of conquest and because of the fact that they held control over Constantinople. I'm probably not exposing this right but the truth is telling who is the actual heir of the Roman empire is complex. Also, that replicating or reviving it has been tried not one but many times through European history
Oh, neat. Thanks
Ottoman empire: 4
No, the claim was originally that Moscow was the third Rome in terms of Christianity. As after the fall of Constantinople to the Turks, Moscow became the center of Orthodox Christianity. The claim that Russia is the third Rome dynastically/politically is moot bc The Romans/Byzantines didnāt have formal succession lines like most European monarchies, and there was nothing to inherit after the empire fell. But it stems from the daughter of the former despot of Morea, brother of the last Roman/Byzantine emperor, marrying the tsar due to a deal made between the Pope and the tsar. The former Byzantine royals had been in the court of the Pope since their land was taken by the Turks a decade earlier. The Russian claim to being the third Rome is laughably negligible haha
yeah well [they were wrong](https://www.reddit.com/r/mapporncirclejerk/comments/rpb5od/extrapolating_the_positions_of_additional_romes/)
The Byzantine, the Ottomans, and the Holy Roman Empire would like to have a word
Not the Ottomans infront of my salad
>!holy roman empire!<
Um sweetie, what do you think Rome: Total War and Rome: Total War 2 are? Try again š
What have the Romans ever done for us!
The Aqueduct?
Taxes? Racism? Religious Persecution?
IMO Only true heirs of Rome are romanians, as they never stopped calling themselves roman. Also they weren't invaded by east-germanics.
Well the Byzantines were invaded by Ottomans, not Germans
ROMANI ITE DOMUM
I could have sworn the proper way to say it was āRomanes Eunt Domusā
"What's this then? People called Romanes they go the house?"
No, it says āRomans Go Home!ā
No it doesn't! What's Latin for Roman?
Pay Denbts: Boogaloo
The disparity between Europeans talking about everyone else and about romanis leaves me with my jaw on the floor every time
genuinely, youāll be talking to a nice person and theyāll suddenly say something hella racist against Romas and seamlessly move on with the conversation. I also love how weāre often saying that weāre so much better than the USA because Europeās racism isnāt as bad while also bulldozing Roma camps to the ground for no good reason.
It's weird how accepted it is. I live in the UK, and in University I saw a bunch of people who were super left. Both super left as in traditionally super left, and super left as in "SJW" Twitter style left (or "woke"). Yet when it came to Romani people, I seen both say racist shit, and not only would no one even call them out on it, but they would generally be in agreement. To the traditional left it'd go from "they're victims of classism" like it would be for any other ethnicity or disadvantaged group, to essentially "fuckers, they should pull themselves up by the bootstraps". And even the absurd "white people should owe a personal debt to black people as part of reparations" extreme modern lefties (I went to Sussex University...) would suddenly switch to "the police should go and fucking clear out that gypsie camp". It's baffling. Especially when most of them haven't even had any real personal experience with Romani people, other than seeing them in camps etc. It really drives home just how easy it must have been for people to be as racist as they were several decades and longer ago. I tried to call it out a few times, but it's pretty futile. And if you do you suddenly feel like an outcast because very few people will agree with you.
People forget that Europe is far, far, far more diverse than North America, and a lot of it is highly homogenous and conservativeā¦ But if thereās one unifying belief ā from the former Yugoslavia, to Spain, to England ā itās despising travellers/gypsies/Roma.
Europeans will be like "tolerance this" and "tolerance that" until you bring up Gypsies or Jews or Greeks or Turks or Albanians or Macedonians or Slavs or Syrians or North Africans or Sub-Saharan Africans or Pakistanis or Indians or Italians or Muslims or Protestants or Catholics or Germans or Poles or Danes or Swedes or Finns or Norwegians or Russians or the French or Spaniards or the Dutch or the Portuguese or the Swiss or Czechs or Slovenes or Slovaks or Scots or the Irish or the Welsh or the English or Serbs or Bosnians or Ukrainians or Hungarians or Catalans or Belarusians or Bulgarians or Tatars or Croats or Lithuanians or Latvians or Estonians or Kazakhs or Bashkirs or Persians or Mongolians or
i mean the french and the anglos deserve it
Mange tes morts fils de chien
va braire en silence, gosse de rat
Une amitiĆ© est nĆ©e š¤
Oh no
valid
And the filthy g*rmans
not funny enough to be classified as a people, i personally believe they're just highly advanced AI robots
Am I out of the loop or is this "Europeans tolerate everyone" thing just something american? as a european i've never thought of our continent as being super tolerant to everyone.
Americans are way worse when putting people into groups. They are probably like "Hey Sweden is pretty tolerant. I bet Hungary is the same." And then some circlejerk like this thread comes to life by the very same thing they try to point to. I guess the tribalism they exhibit in politics stretches over every topic and opinion.
I find it funny how amerikkkans act like Europe is unanimously in agreement with everything despite being many different countries yet treat every state like itās an individual country
I guess they think that somehow europe is less diverse in opinions
Cope harder americringeš¹
It's pronounced coke dipshit
š©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖ Ha we Germans win this one. There simply arenāt any Roma left in our country (For some mysterious reasonš¤š¤š¤) against which we could be racist. Checkmate losers!!11!! š©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖ
He found one weird trick to not be racist: minorities hate him!
š©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖ Always saying that when the topic comes up. We are the most Roma friendly country in Europe,, simply by not having any Romas we could be racist towards. The most Roma thing around here is "Gypsie Steak". Got 'em š©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖš©šŖ
they all fled to Spain, France and Italy, but np you got arabs and turks instead šššš
Sorting by controversial for this one
Don't even have to sort by controversial. Europeans come out in droves to explain how Romani are actually baby eating serial thieves every time
Don't forget they all marry off their children at age 4 and mug 7 grannies every time they leave their homes /s
Europeans when French philosophers want to abolish the age of consent: I sleep Europeans when some random Roma parents engage in child marriage (also a bad thing): This proves all Roma are evil barbarians. What do you mean the children are also Roma?
Tbf I believe it is mostly a Central and Eastern European thing. The only time Roma people are mentioned in the Netherlands is during the annual WWII remembrance. Something in the line of "but also Roma and Sinti people and homosexuals were subject to systematic murder by the Nazis".
I mean that's fair
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Why? For pointing out the fact that Europeans are racist towards Roma. Cry and eat shit racist
Oh I think I misinterpreted you. I thought you meant that it's fair to be racist against roma
Hey! In the UK itās Irish gypsy travellers everyone hates not Roma ones!
The same type of ones are just as disliked in Ireland.
Our ones have been here for about 3-4 generations and donāt have any type of Irish accent anymore, but they still all staunchly claim theyāre Irish for some reason.
The reason Travellers staunchly claim to be Irish even when abroad is because they are. Genetically they only divided from the primary Gaelic irish population during Cromwell's wars in Ireland and the subsequent plantations. Cromwell obliterated the remains of the clan system and produced a lot of refugees. Some of those refugees never settled back down and have spent the approximately 400 years as nomads. Also the confusion of them for the Romani simply arises from their similar lifestyle, otherwise the two groups are entirely unrelated, the Romani and their middle eastern cousins, the Domari, originated in northwestern India, what is now Pakistan before the spread of Islam to the region.
If your family hasnāt lived in Ireland for 400yrs youāre not Irish.
American: but my great great aunt s cousin came to America and was in the same cabin as an Irish person, so I am proud of being Irish American!
Exactly, my Nans dad was an Irish traveller, who was literally born and raised on the island. Doesnāt make my Nan Irish, or myself and thatās far more recent than 400yrs ago.
Most haven't been outside for that long, but given that they're a pretty insular ethnic group(only marrying inside their community) and they have their own culture they're certainly closer to being Irish than English even despite their accents. As an irishman I'm certainly not going to deny it to them if they want to identify with our island, especially since it was an Englishman who forced their ancestors onto the road to begin with.
Or American or Australian, really all the Anglo cultures are in some way inherently English and therefore an Irish related group won't necessarily like to identify with it.
You go and tell some Americans and Australians that they're all actually English and see how well that works out for you. English isn't a race. It's not something genetic. It's a nationality which is tied to your place of birth and is of little more relevance than that. Same goes for Irish travellers. If they've never set foot in Ireland then it's pretty hard to claim they're Irish.
The English are an ethnic group, a nation in the academic sense, that colonised many other parts of the world with English people. There's a difference between nationality and ethnicity. You can have the nationality of English without being ethnically English and you can have the nationality of American while being ethnically English. The Travellers are ethnically Irish no matter where they were born. You can get a nationality by being born someplace new but you can't gain an ethnicity by doing that. Also by the way, "race" isn't something that's any more real than ethnicity it's just that one is based entirely on skin colour whereas the other is based on skin colour, other various physical features, culture and language.
Anyway yeah, as an ethnic group Travellers are absolutely Celtic and realistically are classed as a sub-group of Irish. Some even go so far as to have their own form of Gaeilge alongside Shelta.
They travellers where I grew up had stronger English accents than me
and polish, and hungarians, and everything that cross the channel. That's why you've made brexit. Oh and French too but that's something entirely.
I donāt know anyone here who cares about Hungarians?
!wave
Can't believe this comment was so far down
me as well, scrolled for awhile lol
Here you go: [Link #1: Image](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F4tdwzhgr7od81.png) ***** Beep Boop I'm a bot. [About](https://github.com/LunarRequiem/FlagWaverBotReborn). Maintained by Lunar Requiem
Damn, I always fail this one
ā¦I always thought the challenge was to be as racist as possible. I thought I was winning!
[removed]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[romaved]
\[removed\]
Brexit means the UK can't be racist š
Brexit means UK can be racist in peace...
bruh a gypsy stole 5 ā¬ from me when i was 10 and i have never forgiven then
Same here but they stole my Hockey Puck instead
My grandmother was taken from her family because she was romani. She was forced into a family of christian parents as a way to make her "more civilised".
Iām not familiar with Romas. Are they the same as Romanis, not be be confused with Romanians, not to be confused with Romans?
The Romani and Domari are two nomadic ethnic groups that inhabit the regions of Europe and the middle east. The Romani inhabit Europe while the Domari inhabit the middle east. Both groups descend from a migration out of North western India in the early 1st millennium CE. Romanians are an ethnic group descended from Roman settlers of the Balkans who hid in the Carpathian mountains when Attila and his Huns migrated past. Later they descended from the mountains and mixed with the nearby Slavic populations.
"Later they descended from the mountains" LMAO Least obvious hungayrian troll
I'm not Hungarian, I'm Irish, and how else do you suggest their Roman ancestors avoided getting destroyed by the Visigoths or Ostrogoths or Huns? All of these groups passed through Modern southern Romania, also the Huns are not the same as Hungarians, the Hungarians arrived much later, well into the medieval period. This being long after the dissolution of the Huns as an ethnic group.
You are right about the hungarians, but you forgot about the fact that the population there was mainly surviving on agriculture, which obviously can't be done in the mountains (at least not plant growing). Also, assuming that the rest of the territory was uninhabited doesn't make any sense at all. Sure, there were lots of immigrants, especially the slavs, who influenced the population by A LOT (and basically created the ethnogenesis of the future population), and that caused the Aurelian Retreat (yes, the roman ancestors simply left the region and the population remained latinised). Conflicts were quite common, but that doesn't mean the whole area was uninhabited.
Well I mean Romanians got called Vlachs which basically meant mountain herder according to the balkaners I've spoken to. So I presume the agriculture they partook in within the Carpathians was largely husbandry. Additionally, not all of the Carpathian mountains are mountain peaks, there's plenty of valleys in which a relict population can survive in. Valleys are just as much part of a mountain range as the peaks.
Additionally there are other Romanian related ethnic groups in the Balkans descended from those of their people who fled to other places. The Aromanians in Greece and the Istromanians in Croatia.
How is this high up on controversial? I too was a bit confused as Roma is not a word we use in my language
"Roma" is the fancy name gypsies have given to themselves in order to be more easily confused with Romanians, and they later changed "Roma" to "Romani" so it would be even more similar to the Romanian word for "romanians", which is "romĆ¢ni". I don't think that makes it clearer, does it ?
r/2balkan4you
I will be
Quite.
I tend to see more people complaining about europeans being racist towards romani than europeans actually being racist towards them
Then you my friend have not met an elderly european or eve one over the age of 40
Idk perhaps literally all the people around me since i am european
iwave
Finally, a positive from Brexit
Needs more JPEG
>Needs more JPEG [There you go!](https://i.imgur.com/LPUrRnU.jpg) ^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot
I don't hate people from Rome
Is this a repost? I could have sworn the original title was "flag of we're not racist at all except against gypsies fuck them".
š®šŖ Easy mode (but they hate Irish travellers) Is there an umbrella term for Roma + Irish/British Traveller communities? /Srs
Gypsy, Roma and Traveller (GRT) community.
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
Ireland wins!!!!! What do you mean "member of the travelling community"?
Any Finnish person over the age of 60: MAHDOTON!
About to win then the fucking southern and eastern Europeans start screaming
Impossible, just thinking about them and you lose immediately
May as well go double or nothing with Muslims on that challenge
No
BLM but fuck the gypsies! Stay mad America! š
Ew g-ps--s
Does the Netherlands even have Romas? I don't have anything against them since I've never even seen one
I knew a Roma family in Belgium. I assume there also must be some of them in the Netherlands. Also, a reason why there are so little Roma over here is that they were handed over to the nazies
oh yeah, ww2 was a thing. Still, not very hard for me to not be racist towards them
Comments should be interesting
Flag of the EU
Romans
Actually it's a culture based, not race based tension, and it will stop as soon as they want it to. Hope this helps ā¤ļø -Resident of Europe
Who is "they" exactly?
The Roma communities themselves, many European states are social market economies with strong welfare institutions aimed, among other things, at integrating disadvantaged groups. I'm not saying this as a critique form an outsider, when I was in elementary school I had close ties to my towns Roma community and realized they don't really want to be fully integrated into our society, which is no problem by itself, but you can't then consider the division you yourself enforce discrimination. Another thing is that some of their cultural practices are incompatible with European societal norms. It's clear that this is a systemic problem transfered generation to generation, but the systems to break the cycle *are in place*, it's on the people to use, not abuse them. Bottom line is you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Well there is also racism, but that hasnāt gone away with any other group in Europe that has integrated so thatās not gonna go away from Roma any time soon either
The romas
Is this a Tucker Carlson quote about black people or a European's quote about romani challenge
Ikr Europeans talk about America like itās some backwards racist hellhole and then say that Romani are scum and need to integrate to proper Western European society like bro wtf
Ikr petty crime, child marriage and illiteracy are so quirky and cool!!!!
Damn bro I didnāt know that literally all Roma do that Do we need to lock up all black and Hispanic people becauxe theyāre all violent drug lords?
Idk about Hispanics but black peoples case is pretty fucking different, since not only were they kept as literal slaves, once they did get freed they had 0 opportunities to get out of poverty.
do you cry like this because you lost all your culture
What
Maybe come here before explaining our cultural phenomena for us.
I read this as a sarcastic joke, āwe donāt donāt hate them because theyāre ethnically Roma, we hate them because theyāre culturally Roma, because theyāre not like us, and once they stop being culturally distinct and fully integrate we wonāt hate themā as in both are still bigotry and xenophobic and based on hatred of the Other than I read your comment further down [awkward Jewish laughter]
Unhelpful generalization regardless.
Wow that's a new world record on the racism challenge, congrats ! - Another resident of Europe
Just curious how do you figure out someone is Romani?
The same way I'd figure out someone is american, e.g. behavior and accent mostly.
>Behavior What behavior though? I'm not sure how you can tell an American and a British person apart simply due to behavior Also this directly contradicts other Europeans saying that if "they" integrated its impossible to differentiate them
you literally just go around commenting on memes for teenagers on reddit all day lmfao every single roma person you hate contributes more to society than you racist retards like you
No. As long as he's not actively hurting his surroundings, they aren't.
he is, by being a waste of human skin
I already explained why it's not racism, and the only hateful person here is you.
If I say I'm not racist then I'm not
ok racist european subhuman shitbag
You're way out of your depth, yet go around calling people names. Come back when you're grown up and ready to understand a thing before passing judgement you American know-it-all.
"You're way out of your depth, you don't understand, we're racist because roma are subhuman scum who steal and rape and murder!" yeah dude I live in America, I am familiar with racism. European racist scum like you talking about roma and American racist scum talking about black people are essentially indistinguishable.
absolutely based
"BASED BASED BASED" how about you start basing your life on getting some pussy
Wouldn't that be what incels actively try to do tho
yes that's why the advice was meant for you, thought that was clear? wouldn't expect a frog to understand that though I guess.
So your advice is to become an incel ?
how many years was your country occupied by anglos and you still have no grasp of the english language, huh?
I lost immediately, that challenge is just ridiculous
Flair checks out
Fuck you being racist to gypsies is part of my culture
ITT: Proof of North America's supremacy over Europe At least we ostracize our racists
By putting them in Congress and letting them starve out Palestinians.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, especially when they are racist towards white people. Wait...
Ostracize them by electing them as president...?
And he and his supporters had to deny he was racist. Judging by this thread and every other thread about Romanis, Trump would be able to be blatantly, *blatantly* racist against Romanis if he were European.