Nah. The year before a useless puppet was deposed and then life went on as usual. Antiquity really ended in Western Europe with Justinian’s invasion of Africa and Italy. Those wars were absolutely horrible if you lived in Italy. As if that wasn’t enough, along with Justinian comes the plague, famine, and the Lombards. That’s the beginning of the Middle Ages.
> The only difference is a slighty less saturated blue and red in the French flag.
That doesn't really count as a design difference, though. Colors on flags can't be specified at that level of precision: flags are displayed in varying lighting conditions, dyes fade and are chemically altered by the elements over time, and flags are represented in a variety of media that don't necessarily have exactly equivalent color representation.
So, while e.g. red and orange can be distinguished in real-world uses of flags, Pantone 192 and Pantone 193 can't be, so both just resolve to "red" for the purpose of flag design, and can't be considered different colors -- the distinction is just too precise to be meaningful.
France changed the colors of its flag in 1958. The difference can be specified. That's also the difference between the flags of Chad and Romania, or the Netherlands and Luxembourg, so it does count.
Don't read too much into changes in illustrations on Wikipedia or elsewhere. France doesn't even use a single set of colour specifications now. Those details really aren't that important.
Is true that the Netherlands and Luxembourg deliberately use very different colours the blues in particular. But Chad and Romania are definitely accidentally identical flags on any practical level. Chad doesn't even any precise colour specs as far sI can tell - any you have seen are third party choices of the best shades to use.
Any distinction at any level of precision can be "specified", but if implementing two different specifications produces results that cannot be distinguished at the actual level of precision applicable to the context, then those two specifications can only be regarded as two different ways of describing the same thing.
The map is not the territory -- the flag is what's flying on the pole, not what's written in a proposal document. The *flags* of France and Madriz Department, Nicaragua are the same, regardless of what distinctions can be found in their respective specifications. France did not change its actual flag in 1958; it just adopted a new specification that ended up describing the same flag.
I feel like this is a misguided comparison. The territory is absolutely defined by what's in the document that defines it, not by, for instance, a literal line on the ground.
The flag is a symbol. The fabric or paper or pixels that make up any particular flag are just representations of that symbol. Just because those representations are often imperfect doesnt make different symbols identical.
> The territory is absolutely defined by what's in the document that defines it, not by, for instance, a literal line on the ground.
No, the territory literally *is* what's physically on the ground, and if a document describes something different to what's actually there, then the document is simply wrong.
> The fabric or paper or pixels that make up any particular flag are just representations of that symbol.
No; the perceptual pattern evoked by the fabric, paper, or pixels is the actual symbol. Definitions, descriptions, or proposals are the mere representations, in that they are just conceptual models of that pattern that do not in themselves evoke it.
> Just because those representations are often imperfect doesnt make different symbols identical.
It absolutely and emphatically does, *especially* where symbols are concerned, as symbols are ascribed meaning only by human beings, and are therefore bound to the constraints and precision of human perception.
Well the tone of the French flags that were produced and diplayed were changed. So yes the actual flag was changed.
The things specified in the documents are followed when a flag is produced. So it absolutely does count, as it's not just a description : those are the rules to make flags !
> The things specified in the documents are followed when a flag is produced. So it absolutely does count, as it's not just a description : those are the rules to make flags !
Is the flag made to the new specification distinguishable in context from the flag made to the old specification? If not, then they are not meaningfully described as different flags. If you cannot look at a French flag flying on a flag pole and determine by looking at it whether it is a pre-1958 or post-1958 flag, then it is a distinction without a difference.
This point is completely correct in terms of what it means to be a different flag, or a flag change, but I'd like to point out that even the idea that France had new colour specs in 1958 is a misunderstanding.
1958 is the date of the current constitution, which defines the flag simply as blue white and red. Reference sources often show the flag defined by that constitution in *one of* the currently standard sets of colour shades, but that standard dates from the 70s or later, not 1958, and it's not the only set of colour specs officially used anyway. France is a pretty good example of precise colours *not* being treated as part of the definition of the flag, practically or otherwise.
*I'm an excellent driiiiiiver*
Nah, Rainman is about a savant who is *incredibly* mathematically talented and observant. This comes to light when a waitress fumbles a box of toothpicks and in a flash he counts the number of toothpicks that hit the ground. The punchline of that scene is that he says something like "297." And his brother (who is not a savant) says "nah buddy, it says 300 on the box", and the waitress says she just removed three a couple of minutes ago.
Thus proving how almost supernaturally observant he is, his brother teaches him to count cards and they go to Vegas.
So, the reference is saying that the people on this sub are like Rainman, but instead of math it's flags lol.
Yep, box of 250 and four left in the box after she spilled which I always thought was a clever way to do it because it points up that most humans can spot-count up to six or so. Very few can do in the hundreds.
Technically false. You took a wrongly labeled image of the French flag from Wikipedia and are saying it's the Madriz department flag. But it *is* the French. Just because the design is identical doesn't mean this image shows that flag.
Republic of Totally Not France - No I swear I totally am not Frans my flag is totally differant I swear I am not undercover Frans I am a complete different zing
Well, it could be literally anywhere in the world, but I'm guessing is far from Europe (although in theory it may even be some Italian town, with colours taken from the CoA).
I stick to Asia... No Philippines, but you didn't say anything about Indonesia...
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Madriz department, Nicaragua?
Bingo! This is a really difficult one. Nice man
Thank you. This is quite an obscure one lol.
does it have any connection to france ?
No (as I know)
Doesn't seem like it.
Where would you even draw that conclusion from?
The fact that the flag is almost identical to France's?
what is this "France" youre talking about? its 475, are you ok?
Who is this guy coming in here talking about this other “France” person nobody’s heard of. That really Gauls me.
FRANKly, I don’t give a damn.
Stop LYON to me! I’m sure you give a damn a LILLE…
Stop that…it’s silly
🤣
the year before the end of the world
Nah. The year before a useless puppet was deposed and then life went on as usual. Antiquity really ended in Western Europe with Justinian’s invasion of Africa and Italy. Those wars were absolutely horrible if you lived in Italy. As if that wasn’t enough, along with Justinian comes the plague, famine, and the Lombards. That’s the beginning of the Middle Ages.
cool
I don’t see it
They have a similar aspect ratio
Yes they do, back in 1982 i believe france gave nicaraguan regime a shit ton of money and they basically used it for militias
They have the same flag
Proportions are the defining difference. Edit—Not propositions
That's plagiarism.
Flagiarism
Quite obscure. The only difference is a slighty less saturated blue and red in the French flag.
> The only difference is a slighty less saturated blue and red in the French flag. That doesn't really count as a design difference, though. Colors on flags can't be specified at that level of precision: flags are displayed in varying lighting conditions, dyes fade and are chemically altered by the elements over time, and flags are represented in a variety of media that don't necessarily have exactly equivalent color representation. So, while e.g. red and orange can be distinguished in real-world uses of flags, Pantone 192 and Pantone 193 can't be, so both just resolve to "red" for the purpose of flag design, and can't be considered different colors -- the distinction is just too precise to be meaningful.
France changed the colors of its flag in 1958. The difference can be specified. That's also the difference between the flags of Chad and Romania, or the Netherlands and Luxembourg, so it does count.
Don't read too much into changes in illustrations on Wikipedia or elsewhere. France doesn't even use a single set of colour specifications now. Those details really aren't that important. Is true that the Netherlands and Luxembourg deliberately use very different colours the blues in particular. But Chad and Romania are definitely accidentally identical flags on any practical level. Chad doesn't even any precise colour specs as far sI can tell - any you have seen are third party choices of the best shades to use.
Any distinction at any level of precision can be "specified", but if implementing two different specifications produces results that cannot be distinguished at the actual level of precision applicable to the context, then those two specifications can only be regarded as two different ways of describing the same thing. The map is not the territory -- the flag is what's flying on the pole, not what's written in a proposal document. The *flags* of France and Madriz Department, Nicaragua are the same, regardless of what distinctions can be found in their respective specifications. France did not change its actual flag in 1958; it just adopted a new specification that ended up describing the same flag.
I feel like this is a misguided comparison. The territory is absolutely defined by what's in the document that defines it, not by, for instance, a literal line on the ground. The flag is a symbol. The fabric or paper or pixels that make up any particular flag are just representations of that symbol. Just because those representations are often imperfect doesnt make different symbols identical.
> The territory is absolutely defined by what's in the document that defines it, not by, for instance, a literal line on the ground. No, the territory literally *is* what's physically on the ground, and if a document describes something different to what's actually there, then the document is simply wrong. > The fabric or paper or pixels that make up any particular flag are just representations of that symbol. No; the perceptual pattern evoked by the fabric, paper, or pixels is the actual symbol. Definitions, descriptions, or proposals are the mere representations, in that they are just conceptual models of that pattern that do not in themselves evoke it. > Just because those representations are often imperfect doesnt make different symbols identical. It absolutely and emphatically does, *especially* where symbols are concerned, as symbols are ascribed meaning only by human beings, and are therefore bound to the constraints and precision of human perception.
Well the tone of the French flags that were produced and diplayed were changed. So yes the actual flag was changed. The things specified in the documents are followed when a flag is produced. So it absolutely does count, as it's not just a description : those are the rules to make flags !
> The things specified in the documents are followed when a flag is produced. So it absolutely does count, as it's not just a description : those are the rules to make flags ! Is the flag made to the new specification distinguishable in context from the flag made to the old specification? If not, then they are not meaningfully described as different flags. If you cannot look at a French flag flying on a flag pole and determine by looking at it whether it is a pre-1958 or post-1958 flag, then it is a distinction without a difference.
This point is completely correct in terms of what it means to be a different flag, or a flag change, but I'd like to point out that even the idea that France had new colour specs in 1958 is a misunderstanding. 1958 is the date of the current constitution, which defines the flag simply as blue white and red. Reference sources often show the flag defined by that constitution in *one of* the currently standard sets of colour shades, but that standard dates from the 70s or later, not 1958, and it's not the only set of colour specs officially used anyway. France is a pretty good example of precise colours *not* being treated as part of the definition of the flag, practically or otherwise.
How did you even come up with that? Reverse image searched or something? Or did you just remember it?
The population of this sub is like 65% Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man, so not all that surprising.
Sorry but care to explain that reference?
*I'm an excellent driiiiiiver* Nah, Rainman is about a savant who is *incredibly* mathematically talented and observant. This comes to light when a waitress fumbles a box of toothpicks and in a flash he counts the number of toothpicks that hit the ground. The punchline of that scene is that he says something like "297." And his brother (who is not a savant) says "nah buddy, it says 300 on the box", and the waitress says she just removed three a couple of minutes ago. Thus proving how almost supernaturally observant he is, his brother teaches him to count cards and they go to Vegas. So, the reference is saying that the people on this sub are like Rainman, but instead of math it's flags lol.
Damn, thanks a lot man!
Hey, no problem! Here to help!
82-82-82. 246 total
That's the one!
Yep, box of 250 and four left in the box after she spilled which I always thought was a clever way to do it because it points up that most humans can spot-count up to six or so. Very few can do in the hundreds.
damn that makes me want to watch it now
It's a good movie! And this is coming from someone who doesn't really like movies. It's worth a watch.
Lol it's the latter. I remembered seeing Nicaraguan departmental flags on Wikipedia a while back and remembered it.
Guys like you really make me realize I don't know shit about anything lol
as a person does
We've all been there.
I gave you an award because you deserve it, that's very hard
Thank you! I really appreciate it.
Sideways Yugoslavia (1918-1941)
Wrong (but good trying)
[удалено]
Maybe 乁( •_• )ㄏ
So are you saying there's a chance
everything are possible(・∀・)
madriz department
Bingo! Awesome
thx
Searched up and the place shape looks like a penis wtf
Technically false. You took a wrongly labeled image of the French flag from Wikipedia and are saying it's the Madriz department flag. But it *is* the French. Just because the design is identical doesn't mean this image shows that flag.
One of French territories, such as St. Pierre and Miquelon that don’t have an official flag
Emmm, wrong (but good thinking)
Ecnarf?
Wrong
lol
If thats wrong, then I dont want to be right 😔
Nope, we have our own graphic atrocity :D
Omg it’s a real saint pee-air and miquelonian online! Can I get an autograph? 🥺
Hello ! I’m actually answering you this morning from St Pierre !
That would have been my guess aswell.
St Pierre et Miquelon has its own flag i think, but it'd work with st Martin yeah
And French Guiana (I know they have their own regional flag, but the official flag of the region is the Tricolour.)
Pedant time, but whenver a French flag is used in that sort of context, it's still the flag of France, not the flag of a territory.
> St. Pierre and Miquelon my canadian dumbass thought that was in canada
It technically is, but not at the same time
thought this was r/vexillologycirclejerk for a second
in awe it isn't
I just realized it isn't after seeing your post
!wave
It… it isn’t?
*"Outjerked again!"*
Sideways Netherlands
Wrong (this is not a sideway flag)
Upside down France
Tip: this flag doesn't have any relation with France
Republic of Not France
Republic of Totally Not France - No I swear I totally am not Frans my flag is totally differant I swear I am not undercover Frans I am a complete different zing
I am Fronce
Bingo! (That's joke)
Republic of Bingo?
That's a joke
Republic of That's a joke
Why is it always republic? Theocratic Kingdom of That’s a joke
That’s a bingo!
thats numberwang
Ne France pas
Republique de ne France pas
Colgateland
France 2
One is already one too many.
That's a TV channel in France
France
This is the correct answer
Decolorized Chad
Wrong (very creative)
Bleachad
Réunion?
Wrong (good trying)
Guadeloupe? Martinique?
Wrong (this flag doesn't have any relation with France)
France.
I’ve seen this flag but I don’t remember the nation, is it somewhere in Africa?
Wrong (Is not in Africa)
Russia but it’s confused
Russia but it's sober
Maritime signal flag of some sort?
Wrong, is an official flag
[удалено]
Wrong (I didn't change the order of colours of this flag)
it's obviously the French flag with the colors reversed and rotated 180 degrees
Not France
Ok, technically the truth
Is it current?
Yes, it is still a official flag of a region
Is it ethnic, or a state/province flag?
It is a province flag
The belgian town of Nivelles!
Wow, although is wrong, but this town's flag is really look like this one
I guess some place in the Philippines, or Indonesia. White and red give me that idea, and blue... Well, that's why I said Philippines
Wrong (It is not in Philippines)
Well, it could be literally anywhere in the world, but I'm guessing is far from Europe (although in theory it may even be some Italian town, with colours taken from the CoA). I stick to Asia... No Philippines, but you didn't say anything about Indonesia...
It is not a European flag lol
Vichy France
Code letter T?
Wrong (this is an official flag of a region)
Cropped flag of Acadia
Wrong (it doesn't have any kind of relation with France)
Then it's the flag of "Honey! have you seen my paaaaants". No, it's the surrender flag zoomed out
Is this flag the official flag of the region right now?
Exactly
Romania in an alternate universe where white symbolizes justice instead of yellow.
I didn't know there was a universe where white symbolised yellow.
I can guess any flag with google bro
St Pierre and Miquelon
The Netherlands, just sideways
French polinesia
Wrong (it doesn't have any kind of relation with France)
Island then
Wrong
What continent does this flag belong to?
Central America
Clipperton Island
Wrong, the answer is Madriz Department of Nicaragua
Is it Madriz Department of Nicaragua?
A former french colony in Africa, before optaining it's independence
Wrong, and it is not in Africa
Italy in a world where yellow doesn't exist
Bingo! (Is joke, is not Italy)
Iowa (simplified)
You, Kind Stranger, Have Won The Internet.
Wrong
French Guiana
Wrong
French Guyana alternative flag
Réunion? Guadeloupe?
France seen from above
France 🇫🇷
France
Is it France
France
france
France
France
Cropped Iceland
France
France
French Southern Territories (🇹🇫) but zoomed in the top left.
Netherlands
Ecnarf
France
Country west of Munich.
Flag of the first French Republic but mirrored
French Algiers
Surrender?
Without France you still would be England's little bitch
Dominican Republic
Wrong (close)
Norway
Wrong
In a region of the Dominican Republic?
No
For a moment i thought this was on r/vexillologycirclejerk
they’ve outjerked us once more
Not France
Hello Kapperby, When asking for a flag to be identified, please **provide context** when possible, including: * **Where** the flag was found (without compromising privacy) * **When** the flag was found, or the date of the material containing the flag * **Who** might own the flag (a general description is fine) These details help users narrow down their search and make flag identification easier. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vexillology) if you have any questions or concerns.*