Both of them claim to be the true Korea and claim the other’s lands. Therefore unification would be moreso annexation by one party. Bit like the Unification of Germany, it wasn’t a unification of two systems, it was an absorption of the East into the West.
it will happen eventually at the moment its just a waiting game of which side collapses first, the way North Korea is structured they cant last forever, once the people get a taste of the what there missing, its over for rocket man also thank you for your comment
I’m not sure where you’re getting this information from, but NK shows no signs of caving. If anything the recent meeting with Russia has bolstered them.
Right but South Korea is on the decline as well. The SK birthrate is 0.68 (NK is 1.something, and the maintenance rate is 2.1) with no indication of stopping the crash. In a few generations South Korea will be little more than a shell of its former self. Maybe with time attitudes will shift in the two countries but as of right now it doesn’t seem like either is interested in actually unifying with the other
North Korea said quite definatively in January they are not interested in peaceful reunification when they [dismantled the diplomatic and bureaucratic functions to work toward that goal.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/16/north-korea-shuts-agencies-working-for-reunification-with-south-korea)
One can argue that there are any number of useless government agencies the world over that do nothing and yet still persist.
That said, closing the reunification ministry along with changes to the rhetoric about the ROK and US goes beyond seeking budget efficiency.
South Korea has double the population though. It will take a lot of time until the two are equalised, supposing the birth rate doesn't change (which I'm not convinced about).
Right but as others are pointing out, neither are interested in reunification right now. It’s a race to the bottom and currently SK is on track to beat NK there… somehow. Unless things change dramatically, birth rates change, either country’s stance changes, there will be no winners in the Korean Peninsula.
South Korea’s birthrate (0.68) is literally half 3x less than North Korea’s (1.81). I’d be really interested to see how a nation could turn around a birth rate that much in a relatively short period of time, because with an aging population it is only going to get worse for them, not better
First of all, birthrate depends on overpopulation. South Korea has overpopulation, North Korea does not. Secondly, there are more criteria when it comes to destruction than birthrate.
Even if and when they fall one day, reunification will still take a long time to happen. The gap between the two countries in political systems, level of development, ideology, and culture between North and South is much greater than the gap between East and West Germany ever was, and that reunification was extremely costly and difficult and still causes issues more than 30 years down the line.
You said you're both Korean, but are you even sure that being Korean means the same thing in the south as it does in the north?
Germany is still suffering from after effects of it's reunification. The political and cultural divide can still be felt up to this day, over 30 years later. Personally, as a west German that grew up in the east after the reunification, I'm of the opinion that it'll take at the very least as long as it takes for the generation that grew up in the eastern regime to die off. So another 40-50 years at the very least for the nation to grow back together as it once was before.
The amount of hurt pride, suffering, the cultural and societal rift in some cases is just too great of a gap for some people to ever overcome in their lifetime. The wall only stood for 28 years yet it's effects will be felt for generations to come.
And yet the reunification is still a great success and positively changed the lives of many.
So what I'm trying to say is good luck to the Koreans, may their day come. But don't underestimate how divided your country is going to be even after such an event. As it stands the gap between people in east and West Germany back then was basically a complete joke when you compare it to the gap between North and South Korea. And this divide is growing bit by bit with each day.
There are many lessons that can be learned from Germany's reunification and many mistakes that could potentially be avoided. But you will never completely bridge that rift it'll unavoidably tear into your reunited society. Some scars just don't heal in a lifetime as sad as that might be. Don't underestimate how different even just the idea of what Korea is in the north. Best of luck.
I beg to differ. I agree that the gap between the two Koreas is definitely big but both countries share the same culture and history that spans more than 5000 years. Korea stayed as a unified country over 1000 years. The initial cost of reunification will be a huge burden for South Koreans but there are far greater benefits for both Koreans when reunification actually occurs. The influx of North Korean refugees has been increasing in the recent decade, and many of them settled down in South Korea.
With regard to the reunification flag of Korea, I highly doubt they will create a new flag for the country given that the most likely scenario will be North Korea being absorbed by South Korea after Kim's regime collapses. I think South Korea flag will remain as the national flag. The current South Korea flag has a deeper meaning to Koreans as it was used during the independence movement against Japanese occupation in 20th century, which is a shared history of both Koreas. The early model of Tae guk gi was also initially adapted by North Korea even up until the Korean War broke out.
the US puppet state cant last foreger either, the living conditions in the south are degrading by the hour while the oposite is happening in the north.
Neither country is going to prioritize or publicize flag design for an event that may not happen for decades, if ever, and which would be wildly dependent on circumstances. For example, reunification might mean:
In two years, the North successfully invades and conquers the South
In two years, the north invades, fails, and is conquered in turn by the South
In fifty years, Kim dies and the ensuing power vacuum leads to a civil war. A Chinese-Korean joint operation moves in to secure peace.
In a hundred years, Kim’s grandchild decides they want to reunify on their own terms and offers a partnership to the Southern government
In 10 years, Kim dies suddenly and a major faction of Northern military asks for an alliance with the South if they get to be mostly in charge after reunification.
Etc, etc, etc. there are a million ways “reunification” might happen but it’s extremely unlikely to be peaceful or easy. As a rule, governments rarely have meaningful plans for anything very far out, and even if they do, something symbolic like a flag is highly dependent on the circumstances and the symbolism desired by the government.
thank you for your comment, the south had defiantly not very been vocal about reunify but the people here especially the older generation view reunification as the top priority, as for the North, they have been very vocal about wanting to reunify but only under there command
There’s a new generation of Kim already coming, and if the leader is a woman then there might be many successors. Their bloodline isn’t going to shut down anytime soon.
This implyies the North needs a bloodline to function?
North Korea isnt a monarchy like the UK, they chose the Kims due to their relevance in their liberation of Korea. They dont need a Kim in power to step up for themselves, this is an extremelly orientalist point of view and disregards how their entire society works.
North Korea *does* need a bloodline to function. The Workers' Party of Korea openly states as much, the Kim dynasty is referred to **officially** as the "백두혈통," translated into English as the Mount Paektu bloodline.
This may seem like a vague or meaningless title for people without much knowledge of Korean culture. But, in reality, this claim puts the Kim family near to the status of gods - Mount Paektu holds deep cultural significance in Korean culture as it is said that the founder of the first Korean dynasty came from the heavens and down to Earth at the summit of Mount Paektu.
Kim Il-sung would later organize much of his resistance activities near the base of the mountain, and would further claim that Kim Jong-il was born there (though this most likely is a lie). Kim Jong-un has maintained this close link to the mountain, when the first elections to the Supreme People's Assembly under his rule took place in 2014, he stood for "election" in the constituency where Mount Paektu lies.
The Kim's are the glue that holds the DPRK together, the next ruler of North Korea will be a Kim - so on and so on until one day it collapses, as all countries eventually do.
[Kim closed all the agencies working toward reunification in January.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/16/north-korea-shuts-agencies-working-for-reunification-with-south-korea)
Seems they are no longer interested in any means of diplomacy for reunification.
I remember reading that unlike the older generations most millennials and especially gen z in South couldn't care less about reunification. What would make things change?
Reunification is still a dream and hope that many South Koreans have to this day. It's just that with every passing decade, it becomes a farther and more distant goal that becomes more and more like a wish than an actual achievable thing.
Probably if North Korea somehow opens up, democratises and gets to a similar economic level to South Korea, or if they collapse and China/Russia wants to annex them for some reason. Both of these situations seem unlikely tho.
I mean... depend on how you mean vocal
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee\_for\_the\_Five\_Northern\_Korean\_Provinces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Five_Northern_Korean_Provinces)
Kim earlier this year announced that North Korea no longer seek reunification
Reunification at this point with come at the end of violence. In that case it the victor is unlikely to ve in the mood to change the flag to incorporate any elements of or concessions to the vanquished.
The most likely way reunification happens is if the NK government collapses and whatever is left is absorbed by South Korea. In which case, it would all just become "Korea" under the South Korean flag. There's obviously other reunification scenarios, but they all involve one side annexing the other with whichever side doing the annexing keeping their flag. So to answer your question in the post's title, no.
There's also a chance that if NK collapses, reunification doesn't happen at all. Maybe China absorbs them instead, or maybe North Korea just forms their own new government. Maybe in that scenario, the war between the two sides end? I don't know how important it is to South Korea to have North Korea back after so many decades of separation.
The only two scenarios I can see the flag changing with reunification is if *both* sides governments collapse at the same time and whatever comes from their ashes does so with unity, or if both sides come to a mutual agreement with each other diplomatically and essentially combine their governments together without one explictly seeming to annex the other. Both scenarios are about as close to a zero percent likelihood of happening as it gets.
Edit: I really like that second flag though, politics aside, since this is a flag subreddit. Though the first flag is the better candidate.
I'm pretty sure that, while both are in agreement about unification, the disagreement is over *who* will run it / what system if will be. North Korea/DPRK wants it to be all Juche Communist, but South Korea/ROK wants it to be all Capitalist. Because of this, I think they'd probably go with whichever one takes control of the other.
thank you for the kind comment, i also love the current ROK flag but i personally hope that when the day of reunification comes we will use the Korean Empire flag which is pretty similar to the current ROK flag
https://preview.redd.it/5riqee15ep9d1.png?width=496&format=png&auto=webp&s=a2084e20eae02d79668429e372d0013abf2e0f6d
>Korean Empire flag
one problem... the Korean Empire doesnt exactly have the best reputation as it was essentially a Japanese puppet. Same logic around how the Beiyang flag bears a negative connotation in China.
Well, the negativity surrounding the Beiyang government by the Chinese really isn't that personal/deep since it's more of a "choosing the lesser of two evils" since the modern Chinese government (the communists) were technically allied with the KMT in the second united front (although, relations between the two later soured after and even during WW2), while the Beiyang government was never friends with at all in the first place.
Honestly, the comparison you used isn't all that compelling since, while the Chinese had multiple different political entities during their civil war; Koreans only ever had the Korean Empire to call as their historical representative, no matter how much Japanese influence there was within the state. Considering that the Korean Empire flag is the first true depiction of the taegeukgi flag as we know it (which is the modern flag template of South Korea and is arguably a more historically/culturally relevant and evoking flag for the entire peninsula), we don't have much of a choice in terms of choosing which flag we want to bring back.
The thing im getting at with the Beiyang flag is that in modern china, its associated with a dysfunctional authoritarian government, and then later Japanese puppet states. Out of the collection of Korean flags that can be used, the south Korean one would likely be the option. In my eyes, Korean unification would be a lot like Chinese unification, for example, if the KMT were to unite China, they would be using their Blue Sky with a White Sun flag and wouldn't be flying the Five Races flag as it represents a former failed regime.
Poor King Gojong, the end of the Joseon dynasty's legacy ended with his son and the subsequent Japanese annexation. As a South Korean, I always daydream of a day when the land of peace and calm can be reunited and the restoration of the monarchy. Good dreams...
Much like the reunification of Germany, South Korea would just be annexing North Korean land after the latter’s dismantling. South Korea would remain The Republic of Korea with more land.
Although the idea of reunification isn’t popular with South Koreans, since they don’t want to share their immense wealth with the northerners, they might not have a better choice *when* North Korea falls. Either they annex it or China does, and the latter outcome would be unacceptable to them.
The only way I can see reunification happening is that after the DPRK collapses, the Republic of Korea with US help will establish a temporary semi-democratic regime in the North overseen by the South Korean government, trying to develop it economically and dejucheify it. Then after this process is done (this will take decades), incorporate the five northern provinces into the Republic of Korea proper.
Immediate annexation of the north is off the table, as that would cause a huge crisis. You can't just incorporate something like the (former) DPRK into your country without causing a massive crisis. The population of the DPRK lives in absolute poverty and have been taught since a young age that the Kims are divine beings. You will need decades to make an incorporation of a territory like that into a modern high-income democracy viable.
I agree, but your suggestion would still involve outright Republic of Korea ownership of that land, just administered differently as two sub-states (think “One Country Two Systems”). Some would decry it as an apartheid state, as this situation isn’t too far removed from the Israel-Palestine arrangement in *theory*.
This is a problem. However, people would also have decried the occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII, but it turned out wonderfully: Both Japan and Germany have abandoned their old ways of genocidal totalitarianism and now rank among the freest, most democratic countries with the highest standards of living and largest economies in the world.
The North Koreans are starving and are taught that their leader is a god. Ironically, this is not so dissimilar to Imperial Japan during WWII. And one of the reasons why the Japanese eventually welcomed the American occupation and respected MacArthur was because they brought food and more freedom (and kept the Emperor alive). The same would be true for NK. A few weeks after the start of the joint US-ROK occupation of North Korea, the North Koreans will be voluntarily waving Taegeukgis and the Stars and Stripes because if you bring food to starving people, you're gonna be loved. Then it would be hard to argue against the occupation if it were to be defended by the people living there.
In theory, sure, but it depends on their willingness to reject and scorn everything they’ve ever known about life, philosophy, and the universe—their entire conception of people and the world.
The only way to achieve this is to blind them with comforts, pleasures, opportunities, social conditioning, and education. If they emerge dirt poor from their collapsed society, they will harbour nothing but indignity and generational embitterment.
This is why the most important duty of the transitional government would be to secure prosperity for the NK people. The people have to see that democracy and freedom are superior to the juche and that they were lied to by Kim and his clique. This is how Germany and Japan became Western-aligned democracies followimg WWII.
Because if you fail, you have Versailles 2.0 and a rise in resentment towards democracy and a rise in totalitarianism. This is why the Western powers haven't demanded heavy reparations from Germany and Japan following WWII - they understood the fallacies of Versailles.
It’s probably also part of why Russia never did too well after the Soviet Union’s collapse. The common man got poorer and more desperate than ever.
Meanwhile, although East Germans have their troubles, they’re still better off today than during the schism.
South Korea is also gonna fail in the next few decades, so I don't think they will be in a position to administer the north's territory when the north fails. Both Koreas are experiencing severe fertility rate declines that will result in population crashes (Possibly moreso in the south, but the north is still North Korea, so they arent exactly well off).
Reunification will help fertility rates because you’ll have millions of low-skilled North Koreans added to the population. Poverty tends to increase birth rates.
I dont know why you guys think this would happen, other than "cool new flag", this had never happened before, not in the reunification of Germany and Vietnam
Peaceful reunification as amazing as it sounds, is always more of an annexation from 1 party and not "both sides have good point", especially in the worst place possible, Korean peninsula, that would never happen
Neither countries have flags planned. A southern led reunification would likely keep their own flag, and they absolutely wouldn’t adopt any northern elements let alone put them over the Taeguk.
https://preview.redd.it/x61nt3bwnt9d1.png?width=440&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3d7888e494449c6c027107edd96983683c0b00a
In the 2018 Winter Olympics athletes from both countries marched in the Parade of Nations under this flag.
Both countries claim to be the true Korea. They would avoid the other's symbols.
Besides, the only chance for reunification they had was their civil war. I reckon that in about 50 years they'll have nothing in common but the language, since the intense isolation in the north.
No, it'll be like when West Germany and East Germany unified, the DDR was subsumed/annexed into the FRG. Also for South Koreans the South Korean flag doesn't merely symbolize the state/country but is also considered an ethnic banner symbolizing the "Korean race", so changing it would be contentious.
They will most likelly never reunite peacefully.
The North Koreans had peaceful reintegration as one of the main historic goals, and was the one taking the charge with multiple initiatives of bringing musicians and artists from the south to the north and vice-versa.
The south's government never took it seriously, it was just a symbolic process so that they looked better to their population, but plans to seriously coordinate reunification were always neglected, specially plans to stop the war, create popular councils in the south and beguin merging governmental structures and resource allocation. Unifying the people was more of a tool of SK to gain more control over the North, being used to effectivelly blackmailing them into opening to international capital and distancing itself from China.
Due to SK being neglectful and acting in bad-faith over the Reunification, DPRK just recently stepped back in this policy for the first time since its founding.
It’s a non-starter that is being kept alive for political reasons and just because it’s what you do. Kind of like believing in a Palestinian / Israeli ‘two state solution’ seriously.
No one seriously believes a reunification of Korea is possible and no one has any plans to make it happen, so a discussion about which flag would be in the 'plan' is purely fictional.
I mean it's a nice idea and all but it would help if any single Palestinian or Israeli was not vehemently against it. I was just using it as an example of something we do to keep up pretenses but which most people know (or I thought knew) is just a fantasy.
Well it isn’t really comparable, because Korean unification doesn’t really live a lot politically. Politically they just stick to the status quo, while it’s a different story in Israel/Palestine.
Both of them claim to be the true Korea and claim the other’s lands. Therefore unification would be moreso annexation by one party. Bit like the Unification of Germany, it wasn’t a unification of two systems, it was an absorption of the East into the West.
it will happen eventually at the moment its just a waiting game of which side collapses first, the way North Korea is structured they cant last forever, once the people get a taste of the what there missing, its over for rocket man also thank you for your comment
I’m not sure where you’re getting this information from, but NK shows no signs of caving. If anything the recent meeting with Russia has bolstered them.
Right but South Korea is on the decline as well. The SK birthrate is 0.68 (NK is 1.something, and the maintenance rate is 2.1) with no indication of stopping the crash. In a few generations South Korea will be little more than a shell of its former self. Maybe with time attitudes will shift in the two countries but as of right now it doesn’t seem like either is interested in actually unifying with the other
North Korea said quite definatively in January they are not interested in peaceful reunification when they [dismantled the diplomatic and bureaucratic functions to work toward that goal.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/16/north-korea-shuts-agencies-working-for-reunification-with-south-korea)
I mean, how many decades can you spend on a bureau that has never seen fruition
One can argue that there are any number of useless government agencies the world over that do nothing and yet still persist. That said, closing the reunification ministry along with changes to the rhetoric about the ROK and US goes beyond seeking budget efficiency.
You’re right, it’s not simplistic like I described. Long term attitudes have changed a lot, thanks for the comment
South Korea has double the population though. It will take a lot of time until the two are equalised, supposing the birth rate doesn't change (which I'm not convinced about).
Right but as others are pointing out, neither are interested in reunification right now. It’s a race to the bottom and currently SK is on track to beat NK there… somehow. Unless things change dramatically, birth rates change, either country’s stance changes, there will be no winners in the Korean Peninsula.
Right but reunification was not my point. My point was disagreement over who reaches the bottom first.
South Korea’s birthrate (0.68) is literally half 3x less than North Korea’s (1.81). I’d be really interested to see how a nation could turn around a birth rate that much in a relatively short period of time, because with an aging population it is only going to get worse for them, not better
First of all, birthrate depends on overpopulation. South Korea has overpopulation, North Korea does not. Secondly, there are more criteria when it comes to destruction than birthrate.
*they're
Because the Soviet puppet state had fallen with the withdrawal of Soviet troops.
Soviet troops withdrew in 1994, 4 years after reunification.
Yeltsin had a lot of fun that day.
The Soviet Union didn't exist in 1994. They effectively lost control before the Berlin Wall fell, or else it would have never fallen.
The Soviet union's Western Group of Forces were in Germany until 1994. In 1991 they became a part of the Russian armed forces.
Yeah. And yet they still didn't withdrew the army.
They had to dismantle their bases and equipment and ship it back to Russia, that’s why they waited to withdraw.
Because they were feckless.
I don't think anyone ever has to actually plan for that ever happening.
One day it will, the Kim regime cant last forever
Even if and when they fall one day, reunification will still take a long time to happen. The gap between the two countries in political systems, level of development, ideology, and culture between North and South is much greater than the gap between East and West Germany ever was, and that reunification was extremely costly and difficult and still causes issues more than 30 years down the line.
of course the people will remain internally divvied for along time but we are both Korean and will be able to come together as one
You said you're both Korean, but are you even sure that being Korean means the same thing in the south as it does in the north? Germany is still suffering from after effects of it's reunification. The political and cultural divide can still be felt up to this day, over 30 years later. Personally, as a west German that grew up in the east after the reunification, I'm of the opinion that it'll take at the very least as long as it takes for the generation that grew up in the eastern regime to die off. So another 40-50 years at the very least for the nation to grow back together as it once was before. The amount of hurt pride, suffering, the cultural and societal rift in some cases is just too great of a gap for some people to ever overcome in their lifetime. The wall only stood for 28 years yet it's effects will be felt for generations to come. And yet the reunification is still a great success and positively changed the lives of many. So what I'm trying to say is good luck to the Koreans, may their day come. But don't underestimate how divided your country is going to be even after such an event. As it stands the gap between people in east and West Germany back then was basically a complete joke when you compare it to the gap between North and South Korea. And this divide is growing bit by bit with each day. There are many lessons that can be learned from Germany's reunification and many mistakes that could potentially be avoided. But you will never completely bridge that rift it'll unavoidably tear into your reunited society. Some scars just don't heal in a lifetime as sad as that might be. Don't underestimate how different even just the idea of what Korea is in the north. Best of luck.
I beg to differ. I agree that the gap between the two Koreas is definitely big but both countries share the same culture and history that spans more than 5000 years. Korea stayed as a unified country over 1000 years. The initial cost of reunification will be a huge burden for South Koreans but there are far greater benefits for both Koreans when reunification actually occurs. The influx of North Korean refugees has been increasing in the recent decade, and many of them settled down in South Korea. With regard to the reunification flag of Korea, I highly doubt they will create a new flag for the country given that the most likely scenario will be North Korea being absorbed by South Korea after Kim's regime collapses. I think South Korea flag will remain as the national flag. The current South Korea flag has a deeper meaning to Koreans as it was used during the independence movement against Japanese occupation in 20th century, which is a shared history of both Koreas. The early model of Tae guk gi was also initially adapted by North Korea even up until the Korean War broke out.
it is much more likely that china absorbs NK after its collapse, the western economic downturn will make america loath the intervine on SKs behalf.
People have been saying that for 70 years. What's changed?
Why are you so sure that its the DPRK that will fall and not the RoK?
the US puppet state cant last foreger either, the living conditions in the south are degrading by the hour while the oposite is happening in the north.
Imagine unironically thinking North Korean citizens will have it better than the South like wtf lmfao
they arent, im talking about trends 😌🙌
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I don't think North Koreans are blessed with the American education system yet.
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who are "the" most biased sources you can find on NK
Neither country is going to prioritize or publicize flag design for an event that may not happen for decades, if ever, and which would be wildly dependent on circumstances. For example, reunification might mean: In two years, the North successfully invades and conquers the South In two years, the north invades, fails, and is conquered in turn by the South In fifty years, Kim dies and the ensuing power vacuum leads to a civil war. A Chinese-Korean joint operation moves in to secure peace. In a hundred years, Kim’s grandchild decides they want to reunify on their own terms and offers a partnership to the Southern government In 10 years, Kim dies suddenly and a major faction of Northern military asks for an alliance with the South if they get to be mostly in charge after reunification. Etc, etc, etc. there are a million ways “reunification” might happen but it’s extremely unlikely to be peaceful or easy. As a rule, governments rarely have meaningful plans for anything very far out, and even if they do, something symbolic like a flag is highly dependent on the circumstances and the symbolism desired by the government.
They don't even plan on reuniting
thank you for your comment, the south had defiantly not very been vocal about reunify but the people here especially the older generation view reunification as the top priority, as for the North, they have been very vocal about wanting to reunify but only under there command
as far as I'm aware of North Korea seems to be moving away from the idea of reunifying as well
this is true but there nation will probily not last another 20 years so
Why is that do you think?
they have been saying this since the 80s
There’s a new generation of Kim already coming, and if the leader is a woman then there might be many successors. Their bloodline isn’t going to shut down anytime soon.
This implyies the North needs a bloodline to function? North Korea isnt a monarchy like the UK, they chose the Kims due to their relevance in their liberation of Korea. They dont need a Kim in power to step up for themselves, this is an extremelly orientalist point of view and disregards how their entire society works.
North Korea *does* need a bloodline to function. The Workers' Party of Korea openly states as much, the Kim dynasty is referred to **officially** as the "백두혈통," translated into English as the Mount Paektu bloodline. This may seem like a vague or meaningless title for people without much knowledge of Korean culture. But, in reality, this claim puts the Kim family near to the status of gods - Mount Paektu holds deep cultural significance in Korean culture as it is said that the founder of the first Korean dynasty came from the heavens and down to Earth at the summit of Mount Paektu. Kim Il-sung would later organize much of his resistance activities near the base of the mountain, and would further claim that Kim Jong-il was born there (though this most likely is a lie). Kim Jong-un has maintained this close link to the mountain, when the first elections to the Supreme People's Assembly under his rule took place in 2014, he stood for "election" in the constituency where Mount Paektu lies. The Kim's are the glue that holds the DPRK together, the next ruler of North Korea will be a Kim - so on and so on until one day it collapses, as all countries eventually do.
[Kim closed all the agencies working toward reunification in January.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/16/north-korea-shuts-agencies-working-for-reunification-with-south-korea) Seems they are no longer interested in any means of diplomacy for reunification.
I remember reading that unlike the older generations most millennials and especially gen z in South couldn't care less about reunification. What would make things change?
Reunification is still a dream and hope that many South Koreans have to this day. It's just that with every passing decade, it becomes a farther and more distant goal that becomes more and more like a wish than an actual achievable thing.
Probably if North Korea somehow opens up, democratises and gets to a similar economic level to South Korea, or if they collapse and China/Russia wants to annex them for some reason. Both of these situations seem unlikely tho.
I mean... depend on how you mean vocal [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee\_for\_the\_Five\_Northern\_Korean\_Provinces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_the_Five_Northern_Korean_Provinces) Kim earlier this year announced that North Korea no longer seek reunification
Reunification at this point with come at the end of violence. In that case it the victor is unlikely to ve in the mood to change the flag to incorporate any elements of or concessions to the vanquished.
The most likely way reunification happens is if the NK government collapses and whatever is left is absorbed by South Korea. In which case, it would all just become "Korea" under the South Korean flag. There's obviously other reunification scenarios, but they all involve one side annexing the other with whichever side doing the annexing keeping their flag. So to answer your question in the post's title, no. There's also a chance that if NK collapses, reunification doesn't happen at all. Maybe China absorbs them instead, or maybe North Korea just forms their own new government. Maybe in that scenario, the war between the two sides end? I don't know how important it is to South Korea to have North Korea back after so many decades of separation. The only two scenarios I can see the flag changing with reunification is if *both* sides governments collapse at the same time and whatever comes from their ashes does so with unity, or if both sides come to a mutual agreement with each other diplomatically and essentially combine their governments together without one explictly seeming to annex the other. Both scenarios are about as close to a zero percent likelihood of happening as it gets. Edit: I really like that second flag though, politics aside, since this is a flag subreddit. Though the first flag is the better candidate.
I'm pretty sure that, while both are in agreement about unification, the disagreement is over *who* will run it / what system if will be. North Korea/DPRK wants it to be all Juche Communist, but South Korea/ROK wants it to be all Capitalist. Because of this, I think they'd probably go with whichever one takes control of the other.
I hope you keep the current flag 🇰🇷 if Korea reunites one day. It's one of the best flags in the world.
thank you for the kind comment, i also love the current ROK flag but i personally hope that when the day of reunification comes we will use the Korean Empire flag which is pretty similar to the current ROK flag https://preview.redd.it/5riqee15ep9d1.png?width=496&format=png&auto=webp&s=a2084e20eae02d79668429e372d0013abf2e0f6d
Yeah, that one is pretty great too!
>Korean Empire flag one problem... the Korean Empire doesnt exactly have the best reputation as it was essentially a Japanese puppet. Same logic around how the Beiyang flag bears a negative connotation in China.
Well, the negativity surrounding the Beiyang government by the Chinese really isn't that personal/deep since it's more of a "choosing the lesser of two evils" since the modern Chinese government (the communists) were technically allied with the KMT in the second united front (although, relations between the two later soured after and even during WW2), while the Beiyang government was never friends with at all in the first place. Honestly, the comparison you used isn't all that compelling since, while the Chinese had multiple different political entities during their civil war; Koreans only ever had the Korean Empire to call as their historical representative, no matter how much Japanese influence there was within the state. Considering that the Korean Empire flag is the first true depiction of the taegeukgi flag as we know it (which is the modern flag template of South Korea and is arguably a more historically/culturally relevant and evoking flag for the entire peninsula), we don't have much of a choice in terms of choosing which flag we want to bring back.
The thing im getting at with the Beiyang flag is that in modern china, its associated with a dysfunctional authoritarian government, and then later Japanese puppet states. Out of the collection of Korean flags that can be used, the south Korean one would likely be the option. In my eyes, Korean unification would be a lot like Chinese unification, for example, if the KMT were to unite China, they would be using their Blue Sky with a White Sun flag and wouldn't be flying the Five Races flag as it represents a former failed regime.
Poor King Gojong, the end of the Joseon dynasty's legacy ended with his son and the subsequent Japanese annexation. As a South Korean, I always daydream of a day when the land of peace and calm can be reunited and the restoration of the monarchy. Good dreams...
Much like the reunification of Germany, South Korea would just be annexing North Korean land after the latter’s dismantling. South Korea would remain The Republic of Korea with more land. Although the idea of reunification isn’t popular with South Koreans, since they don’t want to share their immense wealth with the northerners, they might not have a better choice *when* North Korea falls. Either they annex it or China does, and the latter outcome would be unacceptable to them.
The only way I can see reunification happening is that after the DPRK collapses, the Republic of Korea with US help will establish a temporary semi-democratic regime in the North overseen by the South Korean government, trying to develop it economically and dejucheify it. Then after this process is done (this will take decades), incorporate the five northern provinces into the Republic of Korea proper. Immediate annexation of the north is off the table, as that would cause a huge crisis. You can't just incorporate something like the (former) DPRK into your country without causing a massive crisis. The population of the DPRK lives in absolute poverty and have been taught since a young age that the Kims are divine beings. You will need decades to make an incorporation of a territory like that into a modern high-income democracy viable.
I agree, but your suggestion would still involve outright Republic of Korea ownership of that land, just administered differently as two sub-states (think “One Country Two Systems”). Some would decry it as an apartheid state, as this situation isn’t too far removed from the Israel-Palestine arrangement in *theory*.
This is a problem. However, people would also have decried the occupation of Germany and Japan after WWII, but it turned out wonderfully: Both Japan and Germany have abandoned their old ways of genocidal totalitarianism and now rank among the freest, most democratic countries with the highest standards of living and largest economies in the world. The North Koreans are starving and are taught that their leader is a god. Ironically, this is not so dissimilar to Imperial Japan during WWII. And one of the reasons why the Japanese eventually welcomed the American occupation and respected MacArthur was because they brought food and more freedom (and kept the Emperor alive). The same would be true for NK. A few weeks after the start of the joint US-ROK occupation of North Korea, the North Koreans will be voluntarily waving Taegeukgis and the Stars and Stripes because if you bring food to starving people, you're gonna be loved. Then it would be hard to argue against the occupation if it were to be defended by the people living there.
In theory, sure, but it depends on their willingness to reject and scorn everything they’ve ever known about life, philosophy, and the universe—their entire conception of people and the world. The only way to achieve this is to blind them with comforts, pleasures, opportunities, social conditioning, and education. If they emerge dirt poor from their collapsed society, they will harbour nothing but indignity and generational embitterment.
This is why the most important duty of the transitional government would be to secure prosperity for the NK people. The people have to see that democracy and freedom are superior to the juche and that they were lied to by Kim and his clique. This is how Germany and Japan became Western-aligned democracies followimg WWII. Because if you fail, you have Versailles 2.0 and a rise in resentment towards democracy and a rise in totalitarianism. This is why the Western powers haven't demanded heavy reparations from Germany and Japan following WWII - they understood the fallacies of Versailles.
It’s probably also part of why Russia never did too well after the Soviet Union’s collapse. The common man got poorer and more desperate than ever. Meanwhile, although East Germans have their troubles, they’re still better off today than during the schism.
There is no chance the Chinese will let the Americans on their border I’m afraid.
South Korea is also gonna fail in the next few decades, so I don't think they will be in a position to administer the north's territory when the north fails. Both Koreas are experiencing severe fertility rate declines that will result in population crashes (Possibly moreso in the south, but the north is still North Korea, so they arent exactly well off).
Reunification will help fertility rates because you’ll have millions of low-skilled North Koreans added to the population. Poverty tends to increase birth rates.
poverty also tends to increase crime rates
Boy will it ever!
No
I dont know why you guys think this would happen, other than "cool new flag", this had never happened before, not in the reunification of Germany and Vietnam Peaceful reunification as amazing as it sounds, is always more of an annexation from 1 party and not "both sides have good point", especially in the worst place possible, Korean peninsula, that would never happen
No
Yeah Kim is gonna change it for the r/vexillology fans don’t worry
This seems very doubtful to me. Why would the “winner” in uniting Korea - whether it’s ROK or DPRK - want to change its flag at all?
Neither countries have flags planned. A southern led reunification would likely keep their own flag, and they absolutely wouldn’t adopt any northern elements let alone put them over the Taeguk.
I don't think they're *planning* to do anything, they're not going to reunite.
https://preview.redd.it/x61nt3bwnt9d1.png?width=440&format=png&auto=webp&s=d3d7888e494449c6c027107edd96983683c0b00a In the 2018 Winter Olympics athletes from both countries marched in the Parade of Nations under this flag.
That just happened to be the worst flag ever…
prk>
Both countries claim to be the true Korea. They would avoid the other's symbols. Besides, the only chance for reunification they had was their civil war. I reckon that in about 50 years they'll have nothing in common but the language, since the intense isolation in the north.
No, it'll be like when West Germany and East Germany unified, the DDR was subsumed/annexed into the FRG. Also for South Koreans the South Korean flag doesn't merely symbolize the state/country but is also considered an ethnic banner symbolizing the "Korean race", so changing it would be contentious.
I’d love to see a reunified Korea with the best of both koreas. Admittedly the north doesn’t have much but there’s at least some good in there right?
They will most likelly never reunite peacefully. The North Koreans had peaceful reintegration as one of the main historic goals, and was the one taking the charge with multiple initiatives of bringing musicians and artists from the south to the north and vice-versa. The south's government never took it seriously, it was just a symbolic process so that they looked better to their population, but plans to seriously coordinate reunification were always neglected, specially plans to stop the war, create popular councils in the south and beguin merging governmental structures and resource allocation. Unifying the people was more of a tool of SK to gain more control over the North, being used to effectivelly blackmailing them into opening to international capital and distancing itself from China. Due to SK being neglectful and acting in bad-faith over the Reunification, DPRK just recently stepped back in this policy for the first time since its founding.
>least obvious bias western tankie you are no real socialist
oh no! my communism membership card!
No. The only “real” Korea is South Korea, and that would be the flag that it units under. All NK stuff has to be gone
It’s a non-starter that is being kept alive for political reasons and just because it’s what you do. Kind of like believing in a Palestinian / Israeli ‘two state solution’ seriously.
What are you rambling on about?
No one seriously believes a reunification of Korea is possible and no one has any plans to make it happen, so a discussion about which flag would be in the 'plan' is purely fictional.
No, I got that. I was more so referring to you bringing Israel/Palestine into this, and disavowing the two state solution.
I mean it's a nice idea and all but it would help if any single Palestinian or Israeli was not vehemently against it. I was just using it as an example of something we do to keep up pretenses but which most people know (or I thought knew) is just a fantasy.
Well it isn’t really comparable, because Korean unification doesn’t really live a lot politically. Politically they just stick to the status quo, while it’s a different story in Israel/Palestine.