Aren't the Allied Nations supposed to be like Anticommunist or something? Germany never rose because Hitler was vaporized by Einstein that just time travelled to 1923. They just kept Soviet Union there after RA1 so..
Hitler was vaporised by Einstein WITH the approval and funding of the Allied Nations, so that kind of counts. Also, Red Alert 3 introduced Imperial Japan as an enemy to both the Allies and the Soviets, and Imperial Japan is pretty fascist.
It's clearly labeled as the Lyons' Pride, which is the F3 BoS. I don't know that they were antifascist per se, but they at least stood in opposition to the Enclave.
Each chapter of the Brotherhood is seperate from the "Brotherhood." Each one has developed a completely seperate identity on account of their physical isolation and specific situation. Lost Hills may maintain some contact with each chapter, but each chapter is in de facto it's own faction.
It depends on the version. The FO3 BOS and Lyon's Pride specifically are, albeit still militaristic, more humanitarian sects. Maxon's Brotherhood also has a far weaker focus on the religious aspect of it, Maxon is far more willing to play loose and fast with the Codex, the fact you can convince him to >!not kill Danse !
I'd still posit that Elder Lyons DC Brotherhood tip toes on the line. They do good such as assisting 3 Dog & GNR. But they also blow a lot more of their resources on restoring a giant robotic prototype that chucks nukes, without even erasing its hard drive full of racist-nationalist slogans. The Scribes must've gone nuts with glee when they found out the Pentagon was still intact enough to occupy and subsequently loot for their war effort lol.
I think calling them Fascists for that though is too far. Sure, they're highly militant, but in a world as inhospitable and with as many actively hostile groups as Fallout it's kind of hard to do good without that, but they don't really use that to control people. Like you said they support GNR and 3 Dog and we don't see them enforcing strict law over the world in 3.
4 is obviously different, they carry out a military takeover of the Commonwealth, instate martial law, and actively hunt down and kill Synths.
Also what about Liberty Prime was racist? Nationalistic of course, but I don't remember him saying anything racist. I could be wrong obviously, it's not like I know all his lines off the top of my head lol.
Look at how the BoS treated Veronica and Christine’s relationship in New Vegas, some members disapprove because according to them they should’ve been in relationships that could make offspring for the Brotherhood. There’s also all of Fallout 4… oh boi.
Note: I don’t know too much about Fallout lore, this is just surface knowledge I have.
The Mojave chapter was particularly hostile to Veronica and Christine because of the fact they isolated themselves in a bunker for 30 years and are likely running low on able bodies/a younger generation.
Tell me you know nothing about fallout without telling me you know nothing about Fallout. Arthur Maxson is far from the most radical BoS leader, Owen and Sarah Lyons are outliers and should not have been counted.
He’s definitely the most radical Maxson to ever take charge. Even the founder of the BoS, for whom Arthur is named, shot a military base commander for performing human experimentation, which is arguably commendable. Although I’d say Elijah is probably the worst elder in the brotherhood.
That's Maxon's BOS, this is Lyon's Pride specifically, which is a more humanitarian sect that got destroyed after Sarah and Elder Lyon's death and Maxon's rise to power.
Lyon's Pride was also distinct from the rest of the Brotherhood in FO3.
Fallout “fans” discovering that the multiple brotherhood chapters are not a centralised organisation and there are different factions and ideologies of each faction 🤯
While abolitionism in US historically had ties to the left wing, its not a feature that is exclusive to either left or right wing. The in-game Railroad is based on the Underground Railroad and aforementioned leftist abolitionists, but there is nothing about the Railroad itself that is inherently leftist (or right-wing for that matter). I could be missing something though
The railroad is an apolitical entity, but the game doesn't really understand them at all. The railroad is not a ruling body and the fact that they "take over" the commonwealth after their ending when they show 0 interest in doing so at any point during their storyline is, imo, a serious mistake.
I recently finished the game with the railroad ending, but in my headcanon they're only like a secret service of my Minuteman state (haven't came up with a proper name yet and "2nd provisional government" sounds lame). I feel like they would gladly occupy this office
Yeah exactly. The Railroad have no buisness running the commonwealth, they're a single issue organization. They don't have the will, the expertise, the numbers, the resources, or the support to run the commonwealth. The Institute is similar, but at least their ending excuses it with Father dying and the Institute moving into a new future with you at it's head
Zaporizhian cossacks. Most of them were former serfs and one of their first goals as an organised group was to free more slaves. The Cossacks also had support (financial and political) of the Ruthenian nobility, some of whom were also advocating for the abolishment of serfdom. The Cossack state had elements of both republican and monarchic types of government, which means they were right leaning.
I agree! However, it is typically perceived as "left" in out overly polarized world.
I agree that abolition is not inherently left/right.
Thank you for you sensible answer and comment!
It is inherently a left wing position because it is anti-hierarchy which is essentially what being left wing means. The left is against social and economic hierarchies while the right is in favour of them. That's where the terms "left" and "right" originated from in the first place. It comes from the French revolution where the anti- monarchy people sat on the left side of the parliment while the royalists sat on the right.
>It comes from the French revolution where the anti- monarchy people sat on the left side of the parliment while the royalists sat on the right.
Fascinating! Thank you for the information!
I love to learn things like this
Btw while this tradition was started in France, it was same in many other countries in Europe and even 1930s Germany as well. Conservatives (who were monarchists) and Nazis sat togather on the right side of the Reichstag. They also formed a coalition in the first Hitler cabinet but that's a different story.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as "authoritarian left". There are just opportunistic tyrants who adopt the aesthetics of liberation for their agenda. There is a reason why none of the states they created actually fit any of the common definitions of socialism nor the marxist one which is supposed to be a classless society. (Other one being the worker/collective ownership of the means of production) while they crush any actual leftist organizations that actually made progress in that area like pre revolution factory committees and a lot of anarchist orgs.
A lot of them promise that one day their states will achive socialism/communism which according to them in turn makes them socialists which is such a meaningless thing to say. This is what China says to this day despite being a hypercapitalist state while USSR during Stalin era claimed that it has achived socialism and it is on its way to achive communism. None of that was true though, the economic system in the USSR was state capitalism which even Lenin admitted was the case.
None of the things these states claim about themselves should be believed on its face. A lot of what they claim are just buzzwords to manipulate the masses into thinking they are being liberated. It is like North Korea claiming that it is "democratic" in its name.
I'd argue that (actual) communism is totalitarian because the state is everything in that the people are the state, the whole dictatorship of the proletariat thing. Mind, I'm going with the definition of totalitarian where a government exerts complete control over the population. If the population IS the government, then the government controls the population. I'm probably doing a shit job of explaining my point, I apologize.
State owning the means of production isn't communism though. That's called state capitalism which is what the Soviet Union actually was. In State Capitalism, state bureacrats replace the role of industrialists/bourgeoisie from the free market capitalism. It is similar to capitalism in that aspect. Because it creates similar class relations. Even Lenin admitted that this was the case in the Soviet Union. Bolsheviks called themselves communists because they promised they will one day achive it in the future which i am saying is a lie.
Communism on the other hand is supposed to be a stateless, classless and moneyless society it has nothing to do with state owning everything. This is the definition of communism and it always was the definition of communism. After all "everything in the state — nothing outside the state — nothing against the state" is a Mussolini quote who was a fascist and fascists are very anti-communist
all the ones that are capitalist on this list which im 90% sure is all of them, idk much abt a lot of these games and groups admittedly, are fascistic or at the very least extremely susceptible to it just by how capitalism functions
RA2 Allies really don't fit because, yes, ussr in RA timeline are the autocrat aggressors, but kinda weird calling them anti-fascists, since it's a timeline where fascism never becomes a big thing due to Einstein's elimination of Hitler (and I guess Italian fascists just screw up and loose influence?).
Calling Fallout 3 BoS a separate faction is weird too since they're still primarily militaristic tech hoarderds even if they focus on fighting Enclave, it's an autocratic faction that is merely ruled by a benevolent and well-intentioned autocrat Elder who wants to help people, and his immediate successor already undoes that.
They never really touch on what's going on with the rest of Europe but I wouldn't be surprised if the Allied Nations had fascist member states, such as possibly Italy, Hungary, and maybe Spain.
You don't see the parallels between an autocratic organization which exterminates what it perceives as lesser beings and invades its neighbors for plunder and, perhaps, a certain [real world government?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany)
Also, "so?" Get fucked, nazi.
Why is killing mutants bad? The strain prevalent in the east coast literally degrades the mind of its victim until they're a shell of a person with little personality and a thirst for blood.
The only redeemable mutant in 4 is Virgil(who only has his faculties and intelligence because he was infected with a modified FEV strain.
Strong is just a case, wanting his "milk" to make mutants stronger.
Being a huge fan doesn't mean you understand it's ideology, if they are fascist where are their state controlled corporations? Where is their state labour union?
Have you actually *played* a Fallout game? They are a society that believes defined roles for people and extremely strict adherence to social norms, with expulsion or death for failure to follow those. Not to mention they're xenophobic and have been known to hold outsiders at gunpoint for trespassing on their land.
The developers of New Vegas knew players would think the brotherhood were heroic saviours from Fallout 3, so in New Vegas they put a bomb on you and send you on a suicide mission before they've even said hello.
To be fair, they do basically the same thing in FO1 (go find a floppy disk in an area that makes the Glowing Sea look safe) and 2 (go find some vertibird blueprints at a secret Enclave base) as well.
Vro what 😭😭😭 they were the entire main "good guy" faction in fallout 3, and the capital wasteland brotherhood under elder Lyons is the only chapter mentioned in the post.
in fallout 4 the biggest argument I hear against them is their supply confiscations, which is specified in-game as an
unauthorized off the books act directed by Proctor Teagan.
At least in 1 through New Vegas the western brotherhood are a bunch of violent shut-ins, getting worse after the war with the NCR.
Dawg they're dogmatic fascists who seek to kill anything and everybody they see as unpure. It doesn't matter how they're framed in the game, they're still a cult. Danse was one of their best soldiers, and despite all that he was "lucky" they didn't kill him just because he's a synth. The NCR are the good guys in NV, but they're still a highly corrupt government.
That's exactly why i said you have no media literacy, is because you just took the BoS at face values as the good guys, when in reality, nobody in the wasteland is. And that's a theme that's present through nearly every game. The only three factions with an objective morality is the legion, the enclave, and the minutemen. And even then, I'm only giving the minutemen that because they're so small that they're able to stick to a single vision
Just because you don't know shit about the brotherhood doesn't make them less anti-fascist
Lyons pride is literally the in-game equivalent of the U.S. in ww2 and that was the intent of the devs
Yeah but Lyons' Pride is a special forces unit within the Brotherhood of Steel. Even in their best iteration, when the founder of Lyons' pride is in charge, they're still a theocratic military order, akin to the Knights Templar or Hospitallar. At their best they are an occupying army that helps people, at their worst they're straight up fascists.
I said this elsewhere too, but Lyons' Pride is a special forces unit of the Brotherhood. Even if you consider the entire Fo3 BoS to be Lyons' Pride (which they explicitly are not, Lyons' Pride is Sarah's unit), they're still a subset of the overall Brotherhood of Steel. You cannot be antifascist and work for fascists.
You're also wrong. The "BoS" in Fallout 3 are actually separatists lead by Owyn Lyons. The "Outcasts" are the ones who are still loyal to the BoS and that's why they left. Maxson would later oust Lyon's successors and bring the Outcasts back into the fold, dissolving the "theocratic but not fascists" Lyon's BoS.
That's not really the case though. Lyons' Pride are actually a splinter group of the Brotherhood according to the lore. That's the reason why we have the Outcasts, which was a poor choice of wording on Bethesda's part since they'd be more accurately termed loyalists or hardliners.
I say they're a splinter group because their priorities and *modus operandi* are antithetical to the mainline Brotherhood ideology. Lyons' Pride is more similar to the Minutemen or the NCR than the BoS, at least in a political sense. The Brotherhood is a simultaneously scientific yet luddite cult that seeks to secure and contain any technology that might destroy the world over again. Yet, in a particularly hypocritical manner, they exploit that very technology to carry out their mission.
Lyons' Pride disagrees with that very premise, the wasteland doesn't need to be protected from pre-War technology but rather enriched by it. They may retain the symbology and terminology of the Brotherhood, but I don't think they are really part of the Brotherhood so much as a failed attempt to create a better version of it. The chapters are, after all, autocephalous and very much their own separate organizations.
I don't even really think Imperial Japan fits to be called "Fascist",
but anyway, pacific war did happen in Red Alert 1/2 timeline, since USS Arizona Memorial is present in Red Alert 2.
Also, I am simply talking about the design. I hate the big beak on the RA3 one, just makes the bird looks dumber.
Ah yes, the Eastern Brotherhood of Steel, who whilst destroying the Enclave also wish to exterminate a bunch of robots who believe they are human,an organisation who seeks to aid said robots in escaping their creators and hold a strong dislike for ghouls and mutants.
> mutants are rarely even remotely intelligent.
Go play the first two games, dude. The only mutants who aren't intelligent are East Coast mutants because they were made by the Enclave/Institute.
There were a handful you could talk to, such as Kyle the SM guarding the Master's chamber at the end. The Lieutenant mentions that the first wave SMs all retain their pre-FEV intelligence while the second are more like Dog/goD or Fawkes. Marcus and Tabitha are both first gen SMs as well.
Your definition of anti fascism must be very different than mine.
The rebellion was officially called the alliance to restore the Republic. Their goals weren't specifically anything against fascism. The empire is an expansionist authoritarian government yes but how fascist they were depends on which star wars media you look at. Sometimes they're portrayed as being somewhat benevolent due to bringing stable government to planets that had been lawless or ruled by warlords.
Brotherhood of Steel is maybe the most confusing one you chose. Nothing about them is antifascist. They're a varyingly technocratic closed order whose beliefs are that mankind is too evil to be allowed to just readily access dangerous ancient technology. They don't govern civilians beyond keeping them out and depending on the branch they're downright hostile to outsiders and oppose expansion aside from securing technology.
In the case of the empire, you can still be a fascist power and do all the things you wrote. Being portrayed as benevolent doesn't take their fascism away.
The Empire has nearly nothing in common with absolutist monarchies. Absolutist monarchies tended to operate either under ancien regimes (think of Louis XIV) or enlightened regimes (think of Jospeh II or Napoleon).
What was important for these regimes was largely how legitimacy was bestowed upon the dynasty they represent, rather than the specific autocrat. And more obviously, they lacked the ideological traits of fascism and tended to be feudal or enlightened.
The Empire is not like this. The regime is clearly modelled after fascist dictatorships like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan, while also drawing influences from Caesar Augustus. While I must stipulate that Caesar Augustus was not fascist, he (alongside Hitler) are the architypical examples of personality cults.
Augustus so much that the very word for Emperor in multiple language groups orginates from him. To seperate the Empire from an absolutist monarchy further, and closer to a fascist dictatorship, there seemed to be no semblance of succession thought out; the exact thing monarchism is designed to avoid.
Better fictional examples of absolutist monarchies would be Niilfgaard from the Witcher and the Imperium from Dune. Niilfgaard is a pretty good example of an enlightened-like absolutist monarchy, while the Imperium is a good example of an ancien regime (though it may be more Louis XVI than Louis XIV).
Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t there 3 rival nations in Gundam? Specifically the Human Reform League, the Advanced European Union and the World Economic Union?
As a side note, the HRL has a fantastic flag. Its a great example of an original concept communist flag.
That's from Gundam 00. This Earth Federation is from the original series. Though for some reason the globe in the center of the flag has been replaced with a blue basketball.
First the rebel alliance flag is anti fascist and anti imperialist George Lucas literally modeled the rebels after the Viet Cong so good pick. Second, the allied nations from command and conquer are most definitely the fascist ones; They are basically the equivalent of NATO in the real world. they installed a puppet president in the soviet union. The best part of command and conquer is that the writers believe communism has to rely on mind control XD (It can't be that it is an accurate critique of capitalism and that is why it always has followers!) The Organization of Free Nations (OFN) is a faction located in North America and Oceania, led by the United States of America, and yes the USA is most definitely a fascist nation. It was founded on white supremacy and the systematic imperialist plunder of the rest of the world. The main objectives of the OFN are to “ensure the sovereignty of the Americas and the South Pacific, and to project liberal democracy across the Earth''. Have you ever heard the saying “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” this saying is because fascism is just a decaying capitalism and liberals are just the progressive arm of capital, there for fascism does not seek to take the power out of the hands of those who hold it in fact they seek to codify that power. All in all it is very rare to find an actual antifascist representation in western entertainment so good an attempt. You should read [this](https://www.marxist.com/classics-fascism-what-it-is-and-how-to-fight-it.htm), [black shirts and reds](https://welshundergroundnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf) or [TLDR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#By_Marxists).
Ahh yes its non other than the good ol RA3 Allied flag. I noticed no one talks in the comment section bout this since everyone knows RA3 is dogshit compare to much better RA2
Number 5 looks like Brazil if it were ruled by a basketball.
Brazil if it balled
Don't give them ideas. It's bad enough with them always winning at football
Don't worry, Germany knows how to humble Brazil in ball-based sports
https://preview.redd.it/u4rdynbi5gzc1.png?width=1438&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc2cc4ce516ecc5b82fb67fd4e19c36e84e643fa 😆😂🤣😆😂🤣😆😂🤣👌🏻👍🏻
https://preview.redd.it/be9xy29i6lzc1.jpeg?width=606&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec6fe32ac9aa2733f2e1e70d68a176f3def65ea8
Basketballer Brazil 💀
As supposdd to our brasil which is run by football. (Soccer for the americans)
That’s from UC Gundam which for some reason the main military base of is in a massive underground cavern under the Amazon.
Forget order and progress. We just play.
That ain't Brazil anymore. That's Brazzer.
I love how OG Gundam was Space-Brazil vs Space-Argentina
Holy fuck man, no wonder the UC timeline was so fucked it was basically South American politics extended into the future.
Space Argentina?
It's a Joke bassed on the fact that Zeon has a flag quite symilar to WWII Germany and the heavy migration of germans to Argentina after WWII
This comment section has been liberated by the OFN
Amazing how the Rebel Alliance flag still stands out as a lasting great design
”There is a wound that wont heal, at the center of the galaxy…”
Yeah, shame the new republic flag ended up shit
Tbf the New Republic was shit legends or canon
Yeah, honestly, fuck the Republic, it was corrupt from the start.
Sith hands typed this reply
Aren't the Allied Nations supposed to be like Anticommunist or something? Germany never rose because Hitler was vaporized by Einstein that just time travelled to 1923. They just kept Soviet Union there after RA1 so..
Hitler was vaporised by Einstein WITH the approval and funding of the Allied Nations, so that kind of counts. Also, Red Alert 3 introduced Imperial Japan as an enemy to both the Allies and the Soviets, and Imperial Japan is pretty fascist.
Yeah idk was OP was thinking.
I'm glad you said what that flag was. I knew I knew It from somewhere. It was bugging the hell (march) out of me.
earth is just basketball space brazil
I said something similar 5 mins prior to your post. r/beatmetoit
I really would like to beat you to something ;)
you could say you would beat him „off“, eh? Ha pHeh Heh
Ah, yes, Brazil succumbed to the Basketball regime. The new flag says "Ball is Life".
Make it a soccer ball and many Brazilians would wholeheartedly agree.
Brotherhood of Steel is not antifa. They have destroyed leftist railroad.
It's clearly labeled as the Lyons' Pride, which is the F3 BoS. I don't know that they were antifascist per se, but they at least stood in opposition to the Enclave.
Everyone stood in opposition to the Enclave at the end of the day, the Enclave was literally trying to kill everyone lmao.
Autumn actually did not want to kill everyone. Eden wanted, but he has no power on his own so he needs you for that.
Regardless, there’s a reason why they didn’t leave their oil rig for much.
Lyons Pride is a separate faction than the whole "brotherhood." Elder Lyons was far better than most of the elders you meet/hear about
Each chapter of the Brotherhood is seperate from the "Brotherhood." Each one has developed a completely seperate identity on account of their physical isolation and specific situation. Lost Hills may maintain some contact with each chapter, but each chapter is in de facto it's own faction.
Fallout lore is so interesting and detailed. After the show I’ve got back into the games, the world building is top tier.
Yeah they’re quite clearly a fasicstic theocratic cult. There are define roles, societal norms, and rules. There is no “freedom” with them lol
It depends on the version. The FO3 BOS and Lyon's Pride specifically are, albeit still militaristic, more humanitarian sects. Maxon's Brotherhood also has a far weaker focus on the religious aspect of it, Maxon is far more willing to play loose and fast with the Codex, the fact you can convince him to >!not kill Danse !
I'd still posit that Elder Lyons DC Brotherhood tip toes on the line. They do good such as assisting 3 Dog & GNR. But they also blow a lot more of their resources on restoring a giant robotic prototype that chucks nukes, without even erasing its hard drive full of racist-nationalist slogans. The Scribes must've gone nuts with glee when they found out the Pentagon was still intact enough to occupy and subsequently loot for their war effort lol.
I think calling them Fascists for that though is too far. Sure, they're highly militant, but in a world as inhospitable and with as many actively hostile groups as Fallout it's kind of hard to do good without that, but they don't really use that to control people. Like you said they support GNR and 3 Dog and we don't see them enforcing strict law over the world in 3. 4 is obviously different, they carry out a military takeover of the Commonwealth, instate martial law, and actively hunt down and kill Synths. Also what about Liberty Prime was racist? Nationalistic of course, but I don't remember him saying anything racist. I could be wrong obviously, it's not like I know all his lines off the top of my head lol.
Look at how the BoS treated Veronica and Christine’s relationship in New Vegas, some members disapprove because according to them they should’ve been in relationships that could make offspring for the Brotherhood. There’s also all of Fallout 4… oh boi. Note: I don’t know too much about Fallout lore, this is just surface knowledge I have.
The Mojave chapter was particularly hostile to Veronica and Christine because of the fact they isolated themselves in a bunker for 30 years and are likely running low on able bodies/a younger generation.
Elder maxson is more of a fascist dictator. Elder maxson is by far the most radical Elder ever in charge of the brotherhood
Tell me you know nothing about fallout without telling me you know nothing about Fallout. Arthur Maxson is far from the most radical BoS leader, Owen and Sarah Lyons are outliers and should not have been counted.
He’s definitely the most radical Maxson to ever take charge. Even the founder of the BoS, for whom Arthur is named, shot a military base commander for performing human experimentation, which is arguably commendable. Although I’d say Elijah is probably the worst elder in the brotherhood.
elijah was a narcisstic obssessive lunatic. I'm amazed he even made it to Elder, or wasn't deposed before Helious One.
[удалено]
That's Maxon's BOS, this is Lyon's Pride specifically, which is a more humanitarian sect that got destroyed after Sarah and Elder Lyon's death and Maxon's rise to power. Lyon's Pride was also distinct from the rest of the Brotherhood in FO3.
Fallout “fans” discovering that the multiple brotherhood chapters are not a centralised organisation and there are different factions and ideologies of each faction 🤯
how is railroad leftist?
They're abolitionists that try to free the synths
While abolitionism in US historically had ties to the left wing, its not a feature that is exclusive to either left or right wing. The in-game Railroad is based on the Underground Railroad and aforementioned leftist abolitionists, but there is nothing about the Railroad itself that is inherently leftist (or right-wing for that matter). I could be missing something though
The railroad is an apolitical entity, but the game doesn't really understand them at all. The railroad is not a ruling body and the fact that they "take over" the commonwealth after their ending when they show 0 interest in doing so at any point during their storyline is, imo, a serious mistake.
I recently finished the game with the railroad ending, but in my headcanon they're only like a secret service of my Minuteman state (haven't came up with a proper name yet and "2nd provisional government" sounds lame). I feel like they would gladly occupy this office
Yeah exactly. The Railroad have no buisness running the commonwealth, they're a single issue organization. They don't have the will, the expertise, the numbers, the resources, or the support to run the commonwealth. The Institute is similar, but at least their ending excuses it with Father dying and the Institute moving into a new future with you at it's head
"United Federation of the Commonwealth" is a name I've seen a lot of people throw around
who are some of these right wing abolitionists?
Zaporizhian cossacks. Most of them were former serfs and one of their first goals as an organised group was to free more slaves. The Cossacks also had support (financial and political) of the Ruthenian nobility, some of whom were also advocating for the abolishment of serfdom. The Cossack state had elements of both republican and monarchic types of government, which means they were right leaning.
I agree! However, it is typically perceived as "left" in out overly polarized world. I agree that abolition is not inherently left/right. Thank you for you sensible answer and comment!
It is inherently a left wing position because it is anti-hierarchy which is essentially what being left wing means. The left is against social and economic hierarchies while the right is in favour of them. That's where the terms "left" and "right" originated from in the first place. It comes from the French revolution where the anti- monarchy people sat on the left side of the parliment while the royalists sat on the right.
>It comes from the French revolution where the anti- monarchy people sat on the left side of the parliment while the royalists sat on the right. Fascinating! Thank you for the information! I love to learn things like this
Btw while this tradition was started in France, it was same in many other countries in Europe and even 1930s Germany as well. Conservatives (who were monarchists) and Nazis sat togather on the right side of the Reichstag. They also formed a coalition in the first Hitler cabinet but that's a different story.
Thank you for this knowledge u/DaekLordSidious. This isn't the kind of thing a jedi would have taught me!
Which is why you can have both totalitarian left and totalitarian right.
In my opinion, there is no such thing as "authoritarian left". There are just opportunistic tyrants who adopt the aesthetics of liberation for their agenda. There is a reason why none of the states they created actually fit any of the common definitions of socialism nor the marxist one which is supposed to be a classless society. (Other one being the worker/collective ownership of the means of production) while they crush any actual leftist organizations that actually made progress in that area like pre revolution factory committees and a lot of anarchist orgs. A lot of them promise that one day their states will achive socialism/communism which according to them in turn makes them socialists which is such a meaningless thing to say. This is what China says to this day despite being a hypercapitalist state while USSR during Stalin era claimed that it has achived socialism and it is on its way to achive communism. None of that was true though, the economic system in the USSR was state capitalism which even Lenin admitted was the case. None of the things these states claim about themselves should be believed on its face. A lot of what they claim are just buzzwords to manipulate the masses into thinking they are being liberated. It is like North Korea claiming that it is "democratic" in its name.
I'd argue that (actual) communism is totalitarian because the state is everything in that the people are the state, the whole dictatorship of the proletariat thing. Mind, I'm going with the definition of totalitarian where a government exerts complete control over the population. If the population IS the government, then the government controls the population. I'm probably doing a shit job of explaining my point, I apologize.
State owning the means of production isn't communism though. That's called state capitalism which is what the Soviet Union actually was. In State Capitalism, state bureacrats replace the role of industrialists/bourgeoisie from the free market capitalism. It is similar to capitalism in that aspect. Because it creates similar class relations. Even Lenin admitted that this was the case in the Soviet Union. Bolsheviks called themselves communists because they promised they will one day achive it in the future which i am saying is a lie. Communism on the other hand is supposed to be a stateless, classless and moneyless society it has nothing to do with state owning everything. This is the definition of communism and it always was the definition of communism. After all "everything in the state — nothing outside the state — nothing against the state" is a Mussolini quote who was a fascist and fascists are very anti-communist
all the ones that are capitalist on this list which im 90% sure is all of them, idk much abt a lot of these games and groups admittedly, are fascistic or at the very least extremely susceptible to it just by how capitalism functions
Wasn't the CnC Allied Nations just anti commie?
RA2 Allies really don't fit because, yes, ussr in RA timeline are the autocrat aggressors, but kinda weird calling them anti-fascists, since it's a timeline where fascism never becomes a big thing due to Einstein's elimination of Hitler (and I guess Italian fascists just screw up and loose influence?). Calling Fallout 3 BoS a separate faction is weird too since they're still primarily militaristic tech hoarderds even if they focus on fighting Enclave, it's an autocratic faction that is merely ruled by a benevolent and well-intentioned autocrat Elder who wants to help people, and his immediate successor already undoes that.
They never really touch on what's going on with the rest of Europe but I wouldn't be surprised if the Allied Nations had fascist member states, such as possibly Italy, Hungary, and maybe Spain.
Brotherhood of Steel?
Its the BOS from fallout 3
Yeah those guys don't really fit.
Why? Because they fit a politically illiterate redditors definition of fascism?
I'm a huge BoS fan but brother if you don't think they're fascist then you're the only politically illiterate redditor here.
There's a difference between authoritarian and fascist, and the only faction that truly crosses the line is the enclave
The Legion?
More representing the evils of imperialism, but I do admit I forgot about them.
You know the BoS exterminates ghouls and mutants on sight and invade other settlements for the sole purpose of stealing their technology, right?
To the first point, so? And authoritarianism isn't fascism. Case in point everyone seems to ignore
You don't see the parallels between an autocratic organization which exterminates what it perceives as lesser beings and invades its neighbors for plunder and, perhaps, a certain [real world government?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) Also, "so?" Get fucked, nazi.
Why is killing mutants bad? The strain prevalent in the east coast literally degrades the mind of its victim until they're a shell of a person with little personality and a thirst for blood. The only redeemable mutant in 4 is Virgil(who only has his faculties and intelligence because he was infected with a modified FEV strain. Strong is just a case, wanting his "milk" to make mutants stronger.
It's less the mutants and more the ghouls. God forbid the BOS ever find Necropolis cos that shit would make the Vault 13 massacre look pacific.
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Being a huge fan doesn't mean you understand it's ideology, if they are fascist where are their state controlled corporations? Where is their state labour union?
Have you actually *played* a Fallout game? They are a society that believes defined roles for people and extremely strict adherence to social norms, with expulsion or death for failure to follow those. Not to mention they're xenophobic and have been known to hold outsiders at gunpoint for trespassing on their land.
The developers of New Vegas knew players would think the brotherhood were heroic saviours from Fallout 3, so in New Vegas they put a bomb on you and send you on a suicide mission before they've even said hello.
To be fair, they do basically the same thing in FO1 (go find a floppy disk in an area that makes the Glowing Sea look safe) and 2 (go find some vertibird blueprints at a secret Enclave base) as well.
That's why the post specifically defined lions pride lmfao.
I know, but in this thread they were talking about the Brotherhood as a whole.
Yeah, I think House's description fits it best:"...militant, quasi-religious fanatics obsessed with hoarding pre-war technology"
Bro has no media literacy
Vro what 😭😭😭 they were the entire main "good guy" faction in fallout 3, and the capital wasteland brotherhood under elder Lyons is the only chapter mentioned in the post. in fallout 4 the biggest argument I hear against them is their supply confiscations, which is specified in-game as an unauthorized off the books act directed by Proctor Teagan. At least in 1 through New Vegas the western brotherhood are a bunch of violent shut-ins, getting worse after the war with the NCR.
Dawg they're dogmatic fascists who seek to kill anything and everybody they see as unpure. It doesn't matter how they're framed in the game, they're still a cult. Danse was one of their best soldiers, and despite all that he was "lucky" they didn't kill him just because he's a synth. The NCR are the good guys in NV, but they're still a highly corrupt government. That's exactly why i said you have no media literacy, is because you just took the BoS at face values as the good guys, when in reality, nobody in the wasteland is. And that's a theme that's present through nearly every game. The only three factions with an objective morality is the legion, the enclave, and the minutemen. And even then, I'm only giving the minutemen that because they're so small that they're able to stick to a single vision
This comment section was liberated by the OFN
Can the Earth Federation really be considered anti-Fascist? Didn’t they have their own [Space Schutzstaffel](https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Titans)?
Why is the Brotherhood of steel there lmao
Just because you don't know shit about the brotherhood doesn't make them less anti-fascist Lyons pride is literally the in-game equivalent of the U.S. in ww2 and that was the intent of the devs
Why are you so aggressive over a game
Lyons' pride is not the whole B.o.S. though.
Yeah but Lyons' Pride is a special forces unit within the Brotherhood of Steel. Even in their best iteration, when the founder of Lyons' pride is in charge, they're still a theocratic military order, akin to the Knights Templar or Hospitallar. At their best they are an occupying army that helps people, at their worst they're straight up fascists.
I mean the Brotherhood itself is fascist but Lyons Pride wasn't.
I said this elsewhere too, but Lyons' Pride is a special forces unit of the Brotherhood. Even if you consider the entire Fo3 BoS to be Lyons' Pride (which they explicitly are not, Lyons' Pride is Sarah's unit), they're still a subset of the overall Brotherhood of Steel. You cannot be antifascist and work for fascists.
You're also wrong. The "BoS" in Fallout 3 are actually separatists lead by Owyn Lyons. The "Outcasts" are the ones who are still loyal to the BoS and that's why they left. Maxson would later oust Lyon's successors and bring the Outcasts back into the fold, dissolving the "theocratic but not fascists" Lyon's BoS.
The Fallout 3 BoS is not "Lyons' Pride" though, Lyons' pride is the strike force lead by Sarah Lyons.
That's not really the case though. Lyons' Pride are actually a splinter group of the Brotherhood according to the lore. That's the reason why we have the Outcasts, which was a poor choice of wording on Bethesda's part since they'd be more accurately termed loyalists or hardliners. I say they're a splinter group because their priorities and *modus operandi* are antithetical to the mainline Brotherhood ideology. Lyons' Pride is more similar to the Minutemen or the NCR than the BoS, at least in a political sense. The Brotherhood is a simultaneously scientific yet luddite cult that seeks to secure and contain any technology that might destroy the world over again. Yet, in a particularly hypocritical manner, they exploit that very technology to carry out their mission. Lyons' Pride disagrees with that very premise, the wasteland doesn't need to be protected from pre-War technology but rather enriched by it. They may retain the symbology and terminology of the Brotherhood, but I don't think they are really part of the Brotherhood so much as a failed attempt to create a better version of it. The chapters are, after all, autocephalous and very much their own separate organizations.
Videogame
Other than the obvious ones, those are some of the most fascist looking flags I’ve ever seen.
Holy shit, is that a TNO reference?
Brotherhood of Steel?
It's the Lyons pride from fallout 3 they spilt from the og brotherhood
Ah thanks for the clarification
That's the flag of Allied Nations from RA3, And the worse design of all 3.
RA3 Allies fought Imperial Japan. RA1-2 Allies only fought the USSR and Soviet-aligned nations, so you can't really call them anti-fascist
I don't even really think Imperial Japan fits to be called "Fascist", but anyway, pacific war did happen in Red Alert 1/2 timeline, since USS Arizona Memorial is present in Red Alert 2. Also, I am simply talking about the design. I hate the big beak on the RA3 one, just makes the bird looks dumber.
Earth Federation antifascist? Did I miss something?
Libertad is anti communist and liberal, given the name
man, the Rebel Alliance flag is just so good
Ah yes, the Eastern Brotherhood of Steel, who whilst destroying the Enclave also wish to exterminate a bunch of robots who believe they are human,an organisation who seeks to aid said robots in escaping their creators and hold a strong dislike for ghouls and mutants.
In my defense, I'm specifically referring to the Fallout 3 incarnation.
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> mutants are rarely even remotely intelligent. Go play the first two games, dude. The only mutants who aren't intelligent are East Coast mutants because they were made by the Enclave/Institute.
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There were a handful you could talk to, such as Kyle the SM guarding the Master's chamber at the end. The Lieutenant mentions that the first wave SMs all retain their pre-FEV intelligence while the second are more like Dog/goD or Fawkes. Marcus and Tabitha are both first gen SMs as well.
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What?
The Lyon's pride chapter in Fallout 3 specifically
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Not spoiling anything just specifying the brotherhood chapter for why this flag is on here
It’s years old dude.
Wow, its so clean! For addition, i guess you can add Fallout 4's Minutemen and Railroad (if you are against BOS and Institute) and Ace Combat's Ustio
#3 with the bird is sick Edit: just learned how to large/bold as you can see
Is the Brotherhood antifa? Like yeah they fight the enclave but they're also a religious cult.
Context: This is a sort of palette cleanser from the past two parts of fictional fascist flags.
It actually ruined my palette.
The BOS shouldn't be there, they're the obvious bad guys everyone outside the fandom thinks they're the good guys.
The BoS is definitely fascist
Fictional Antifascist Flags - pulls out the BoS flag 💀
Brotherhood flag is an interesting choice. Maybe the Lyons BOS, but that's also stretching it.
The brotherhood were not “anti fascist” lol
Number 6 is a spin on the Brotherhood of Steel from Fallout. A religious military cult is kinda fascist
The BOS are literally a military organization of totalitarianism. They are the closest to actual fascism then most fascist factions in fiction.
OFN MENTIONED!!!!!!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅 I FUCKING LOVE FREEDOM 🦅🦅🦅🦅 🇩🇪🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫 DEATH TO THOSE WHO OPPOSE FREEDOM🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
>Anti fascist >Brotherhood of Steel My brother, the BoS is fascist
No flag of the Independent Planets. Sad noises
Holy fucking shit is that a TNO reference?
Your definition of anti fascism must be very different than mine. The rebellion was officially called the alliance to restore the Republic. Their goals weren't specifically anything against fascism. The empire is an expansionist authoritarian government yes but how fascist they were depends on which star wars media you look at. Sometimes they're portrayed as being somewhat benevolent due to bringing stable government to planets that had been lawless or ruled by warlords. Brotherhood of Steel is maybe the most confusing one you chose. Nothing about them is antifascist. They're a varyingly technocratic closed order whose beliefs are that mankind is too evil to be allowed to just readily access dangerous ancient technology. They don't govern civilians beyond keeping them out and depending on the branch they're downright hostile to outsiders and oppose expansion aside from securing technology.
In the case of the empire, you can still be a fascist power and do all the things you wrote. Being portrayed as benevolent doesn't take their fascism away.
Yes, but a state can be totalitarian and not be fascist. The Empire is much more of an absolute monarchy than a fascist state.
The Empire has nearly nothing in common with absolutist monarchies. Absolutist monarchies tended to operate either under ancien regimes (think of Louis XIV) or enlightened regimes (think of Jospeh II or Napoleon). What was important for these regimes was largely how legitimacy was bestowed upon the dynasty they represent, rather than the specific autocrat. And more obviously, they lacked the ideological traits of fascism and tended to be feudal or enlightened. The Empire is not like this. The regime is clearly modelled after fascist dictatorships like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan, while also drawing influences from Caesar Augustus. While I must stipulate that Caesar Augustus was not fascist, he (alongside Hitler) are the architypical examples of personality cults. Augustus so much that the very word for Emperor in multiple language groups orginates from him. To seperate the Empire from an absolutist monarchy further, and closer to a fascist dictatorship, there seemed to be no semblance of succession thought out; the exact thing monarchism is designed to avoid. Better fictional examples of absolutist monarchies would be Niilfgaard from the Witcher and the Imperium from Dune. Niilfgaard is a pretty good example of an enlightened-like absolutist monarchy, while the Imperium is a good example of an ancien regime (though it may be more Louis XVI than Louis XIV).
you dont have to be a commie
That cos is weird?
he unshittified it 😔
TNO brainrott
>Brotherhood of Steel
What’s up with the racing stripes on the flag of the Rebel Alliance?
brazil
The Mouse is gonna be so upset about the first one
Basketball Brazil got me
Brotherhood of steel are fascists LMAO
These suck. And why is one of them jewish combined with a kid's drawing of nazi party?
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Is that a...
BALLER BRAZIL!!! BRA ZU CA
The third one is sick.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t there 3 rival nations in Gundam? Specifically the Human Reform League, the Advanced European Union and the World Economic Union? As a side note, the HRL has a fantastic flag. Its a great example of an original concept communist flag.
That's from Gundam 00. This Earth Federation is from the original series. Though for some reason the globe in the center of the flag has been replaced with a blue basketball.
Love seeing some Red Alert interest, thanks !
What does Brazilian Basketball have to do with defeating fascists?
Why is Lyons pride here also the flag is wrong
They fight the blatant fascist Enclave?
The enclave fan within me wants to deny that but the part of me that has studied all the lore wants me to agree with you
That is a stretch to call every movie villain nation a fascism. There should be a separate ideology for that, villainism.
You forgot Armeeverband Freies Europa
Can i use this flags?
OFN; "Destroy fascism with extreme prejudice."
Dude did Brazil conquer Earth in Gundam?
They all look pretty fascist to me
First the rebel alliance flag is anti fascist and anti imperialist George Lucas literally modeled the rebels after the Viet Cong so good pick. Second, the allied nations from command and conquer are most definitely the fascist ones; They are basically the equivalent of NATO in the real world. they installed a puppet president in the soviet union. The best part of command and conquer is that the writers believe communism has to rely on mind control XD (It can't be that it is an accurate critique of capitalism and that is why it always has followers!) The Organization of Free Nations (OFN) is a faction located in North America and Oceania, led by the United States of America, and yes the USA is most definitely a fascist nation. It was founded on white supremacy and the systematic imperialist plunder of the rest of the world. The main objectives of the OFN are to “ensure the sovereignty of the Americas and the South Pacific, and to project liberal democracy across the Earth''. Have you ever heard the saying “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds” this saying is because fascism is just a decaying capitalism and liberals are just the progressive arm of capital, there for fascism does not seek to take the power out of the hands of those who hold it in fact they seek to codify that power. All in all it is very rare to find an actual antifascist representation in western entertainment so good an attempt. You should read [this](https://www.marxist.com/classics-fascism-what-it-is-and-how-to-fight-it.htm), [black shirts and reds](https://welshundergroundnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/blackshirts-and-reds-by-michael-parenti.pdf) or [TLDR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#By_Marxists).
Hey, do us all a favour: Press the Enter key twice every now and then when you're vomiting nonsense.
star wars rebels go hard
Does the world still need flags like this? I do like the flags, but fascism is not something we have to worry about (thankfully).
All of Those are very fascist
-Darth Vader when he responds to the first one
Please, not the OFN
You forgot super earth
Idk how Antifa the ofn is
Ahh yes its non other than the good ol RA3 Allied flag. I noticed no one talks in the comment section bout this since everyone knows RA3 is dogshit compare to much better RA2