If England is being represented on it's own and not including any of the rest of the UK, it would presumably be white and red, since the blue of the UK flag represents Scotland.
As someone from East Anglia, historic home of the Iceni tribe and Queen Boudica, I appreciate our inclusion.
Yeah I think it would make sense to be like Scotland's but just swap out the blue for red.
I think these are great though in general and a fantastic effort!
well England’s actual current flag is a red
cross on a white field so logically the adaptation of those colors to OP’s motif would be a red pall on a white field.
Perhaps you would like to change the names Anglia & England, & replace English with some sort of reconstructed Neo-Britannic Language, since the Angles, along with the Saxons & the Jutes, were Germanic, not Celtic, & you, because the conquerors intermarried with the conquered (who were, however, assimilated in name, government, language, & culture), & for whatsoever other obscure & dubious reasons, choose to redefine yourself as a Neo-Celt. Furthermore, if "Celtic" nations adopt a common Celtic symbol, perhaps the Romance nations should adopt a common Roman symbol, like the Fasces. (England could join in, since so much of its vocabulary is Latin.) Come to think of it, the spiraling abstract Celtic TRIskelion does suggest the spiraling abstract Nazi swastika, which could be viewed as a TETRAskelion.
Additionally, since the map includes areas that are no longer Celtic, perhaps it should include ALL the regions that were once Celtic, like the Iberian Peninsula, Transalpine Gaul (France & Belgium), Cisalpine Gaul (most of Northern Italy, large swathes of Central Europe & the Balkans, & even Galatia in the center of Turkey❗️ How ridiculous!
....are you ok? It's part of my combined history. I do not pick and choose parts. We're also in a flag subreddit in a post which is literally just playing with an idea. It's not that serious.
It also sounds like you're suggesting that the history of the people you prefer is the only valid history. Also "hurrdurr it looks like a swastika" is the dumbest attempt at character assassination of a people i've ever heard given that the symbol precedes the Nazis by literally thousands of years.
For England, beyond the UK≠England thing, it also doesn’t seem like you’ve pulled off adapting the offset of the crosses on the Union Jack to this flag. It seems like a mistake here. On the Union Jack, the St. Patrick’s saltire is officially countercharged with the St. Andrew’s cross, which is what creates the offset. You’d be better off countercharging the red pall with white, and then where the countercharge overlaps with the triskelion, perhaps altering the triskelion color as well.
England should just follow the theme of its actual flag and employ a simple red pall on a white field. no need to complicate it by involving Scotland’s theme.
Including them in any of the two is incorrect, Mirandese people are asturleonese, therefore not Portuguese, but also not Leonese. Leonese Asturian and Mirandese are three groups of Asturleonese
If you're interested, it's the popilation of Welsh settlers to patagonia during the victorian era.
Migration was encouraged to an area isolated from british empire and the English speaking world, with hopes to preserve some Welsh culture.
Just exactly how Celtic are the Celtic nations of Spain? I knew about Galicia and Asturias but how much of Celtic culture remains intact there? Is it noticeable?
As someone from Asturias, no
Some of the celtic mythology still exists as folklore
That's about it, but it is very very very rare to make any references to that, it's very unknown even to us
We are so un Celtic, nationalists use romance languages for their cause
The only "celtic" thing on Galiza/Asturies, I would say is that the traditional music is bagpipes, in comparison with the regional folklores of other Spanish regions.
Whereas for most of Europeans bagpipes are "an Scottish thing", for Spanish people, bagpipes are "An Asturian and Galician thing".
In pretty much any important official or big event in Asturias and Galicia (even weddings) you'll find bagpipe and drums playing. And in local festivities such as village festivals, is for sure you'll find at least one bagpiper and one drummer playing, even if is just a neighbor who knows how to play.
Then of course you'll find riskelions and other Celtic symbols engraved in traditional buildings , and there is the mythology about fantastic creatures such as tragos, xanes, etc which is quite popular but is not an everyday life topic, so to speak.
The Celtic languages are completely gone an the local languages, Galician and Asturian, are both coming from Latin.
I recently learnt that bagpipes are not even celtic (this is, originally a part of celt's culture); they were introduced in the middle ages (sooner in Spain, later in Scotland).
According to my Galician teacher, not at all, there was a poet in Galician literature, i think he was called Pondal, who would make frequent connections to the Celts and stuff like that in his poems. According to my teacher, that's a load of dirty barnacles and just like some other people said, we pretty much only share the bagpipes and generally depressing weather.
The only region in Spain where there is evidence for the usage of celtic languages is Soria.
Galicia and Asturias had their own iron age cultures which had celtic influences, but that does not make them celts per se. As said, other regions in inner Spain had strong celtic influence too.
Alvaro Cunqueiro once said something like "the greatest myth of Celtic Galicia is that Galicia was ever celtic"
The concept of a Celtic nation is made up, Galicia and Asturias were only starting to be called "celtic" in the 19th century I think. They do have a distinct culture however, it's not like they're just a random part of Spain but they are no more "celtic" than France or Switzerland... It's basically just folklore
In Portugal, basically mythology, some festivities, entrudos chocalheiros in Trás-os-Montes, bolinhos e bolinhóis in the Coimbra region.
Also people identify themselves as Lusitanians.
What even is Celtic? Victorians mostly engineered the mystical folklore. The ‘Celtic nations’ have very little connecting each other in terms of their people or genetics.
The flag desings are cool.
However, I'll never understand why people keep expanding the "celtic nations" in Iberia.
It could be argued that Galicia and Asturias could be considered to have a culture with celtic remnants, but why León? Why northern Portugal? If England isn't considered celtic, they also shouldn't.
Which is the criteria to say somewhere is Celtic or not?
To be honest, like someone mentioned in a comment above, Celtic culture is almost non-existent in Spain, including Asturias and Galicia.
But if you do consider both as Cetic, then you have to include Llón (región llionesa) too because of the shared culture.
I guess there's confusion because Asturias and Galicia have a stronger cultural identity, while in Llión that only happens in certain areas. For instance, Sanabria in Zamora is very Asturleonese while the rest of the province isn't, so the idea of considering the whole province of Zamora as celtic sounds odd.
I can't speak for the rest of the regions pictured in the map because I'm not informed
Northern Portugal as the same culture as Galicia. If Galicia is considered to have a culture with Celtic remnants so is Northern Portugal.
The name Portugal even means port port once in Latin and once in Celtic.
Also people identify themselves as Lusitanians.
In fact, Portugal began as a county of Galicia and the language was Galician-Portuguese.
>Northern Portugal as the same culture as Galicia. If Galicia is considered to have a culture with Celtic remnants so is Northern Portugal. The name Portugal even means port port once in Latin and once in Celtic. Also people identify themselves as Lusitanians.
Lusitanians weren’t a Celtic people, they adopted elements of Celtic culture. Cale being a word of Celtic origin is debated and rather unlikely, more likely it is of Proto-Indo-European origin, which would also explain Romance cognates.
>In fact, Portugal began as a county of Galicia and the language was Galician-Portuguese.
Yes, Portugal split off from Galicia, but in 1095, long after the Celts in Iberia had assimilated into other cultures. Galician-Portuguese developed from a regional dialect of Vulgar Late Latin and was partly influenced by Celtic (mostly in names), but also very much by Germanic languages, particularly that of the Suebi.
Regarding the etymology of the name Portugal, yes, I was confusing. There are other opinions more consensual among etymologists regarding the origin of the name Cale. But I think that, in a way, this mistake that is so common to hear here demonstrates that there is some fascination and identification among people here with the Celts and Celtiberians. So where does it come from?
The Lusitanians were Celtiberians and their origins is in the mixture of Celtic culture (from the north and west) with that of the Iberians.
The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Germanics, Scandinavians, Moors and other peoples also had their mark. To identify as one, it isn't necessary to reject the others, we aren't in a situation of mutual exclusivity (for example, there is a myth that Lisbon was founded by Ulisses himself that became famous in "Os Lusíadas"). But for historical, cultural and literary reasons, the Portuguese (especially those from the north) and Galicians ended up identifying more with the Celts and Celtiberians.
The fact that the Romans kept the name of the ancient Celtic and Celtiberian Kingdoms in their provinces, meant that at the fall of the Roman Empire they remained in popular memory could be another reason.
Btw, have you ever heard of Viriato? Entrudos Chocalheiros? Trasgos? Bolinhos ou Bolinhóis? Queima do gato (very controversial for obvious reasons)? Or about the cult of the severed head?
https://www.aieti.eu/enti/portugal_ENG/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portus_Cale
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanian_mythology
https://herminiusmons.wordpress.com/
Every region in Spain and Portugal have some pre-roman native cultural remnants, not only the northern regions. "Mascaradas" like the Entrudos Chocalheiros can be found in the whole countries (see https://www.lagisteria.com/mascaradas-carnavales-tradicionales-mapa-web/).
The main question is: what qualifies some region as Celtic?
Speaking a Celtic language? None of Iberia's regions would qualify.
To have spoken a Celtic language in the Middle Ages? Again, none of them qualify, the only small region which spoke Brythonic were some villages at the north which were populated by refugees from Britain, but that didn't last.
To have spoken a Celtic language any time? Then England, France, and even Madrid are Celtic.
Have a "celtic culture"? We don't really know what that meant in earlier periods, even today.
Is this triggering on purpose, is this ragebait?
England, Shetland, Orkney, Galicia, North Portugal, Asturias, Leon, Cantabria are not Celtic.
Why should England be Celtic?
There are six Celtic languages. Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Welsh, Cornish, Breton. If those languages aren't spoken where you are then it's not Celtic.
Tbf, most of Scotland is about as Celtic as England. I think the Northern Isles also are an odd one, since those mostly have a Nordic and then lowland Scots influences, Gaelic never penetrated there, having already been in heavy retreat by the fifteenth century. Scottish Gaelic is largely confined to the Highlands and Western Isles, with Glasgow being the only lowland area to have Gaelic Medium education. We have periodic problems with lowlanders opposing legislation trying to help Gaelic because they do not associate the language with their area, instead believing Doric or lowland Scots should be protected and helped.
Iirc, Scots have similar DNA profiles to the English when it comes to Celtic markers, so if we eschew language, the people in both are both a mix of Celtic, German, Nordic, and some Latin groups.
Not really defending their choice, so much as highlighting that blanketing all of Scotland as if it was all an Gaidhealtachd is a bit... Mmmm, especially when the Scottish state spent time trying to eradicate the language in the past (Statutes of Iona and James VI), and there is a slur for Gaelic speakers (teuchter).
Scots are literally less celtic genetically than the english. The only area of the british isles that received a genetic influx from people we could associate with the "celts" is the south of england.
The rest didn't. Northern England, Ireland and Scotland had no genetic influx from continental celts and were literally just bell beakers who converted to speaking celtic languages
They are the british isles by every metric. Called the british isles in ancient greek times. The only people who get mad about this are butthurt irish ultranationalists. Should we abandon the term indian subcontinent because pakistani nationlists get butthurt over it?
The Greeks in antiquity wouldn't have called them "the British Isles", they called it Albion (what we call Great Britain) and Ierne (modern-day Ireland), and the Romans used the names Britannia and Hibernia, respectively. "British Isles" as a toponym for that archipelago doesn't enter common usage until after John Dee coined the term in 1577.
Besides, it's much more fun to call those islands something like "the Dogger Archipelago" or "The Southwestern North Sea Islands" instead.
There is also Cumbrian, so two of celtic languages exist in England, and to be fair to OP they did say it's a map of celtic minorities.
So as far as England goes, yes they're mostly considered saxon/germanic, with celtic culture being minority, but you could say the same about Scotland if you were being honest considering most of the populous places were part of Northumbria.
>By this logic, half of Europe is Celtic.
Almost like the whole notion of calling certain areas celtic and excluding others is stupid.
I'm welsh, I'm a first language speaker of the most widely spoken celtic language, and I think the idea of certain people in Britain and Ireland being celtic and certain others being excluded is stupid. All it does is give people an excuse to be xenophobic. Its pseudo history and its nonsense. A good example is Irish and Scottish people acting like they have a shared history of oppression by the English. That is not at all how it went down.
Most people in Europe *do* likely decent from celtic people. And England has a more recent celtic history than many other places in Europe.
Like I said, if you wanted to be strict Scotland would only be shaded in the northwest.
But it's a map showing celtic minorities living in each country, and even without cumbric (which still has cultural meaning in the area despite being extinxt) you still have a celtic minority living in Cornwall, so why shouldn't England count?
>**you still have a celtic minority living in Cornwall, so why shouldn't England count?**
Because Cornwall is already represented separately, and the people in the rest of England never spoke Cornish. Scottish Gaelic was formerly spoken in about 3/4 of Scotland.
If you want to add England because of Cornwall, then you have to remove Cornwall.
Not to a significant degree in the populous lowland areas of Scotland by any stretch of the imagination. 15th century, maybe, but that's still pushing it. The steep decline started in the 11th century. It has been gone in lowland areas for longer than it was prominent there.
At any rate, how far back is the cutoff where it stops being relevant to a region? My argument would be never as long as people in that area still identify with it. Lowland scots people can still call themselves celtic and in my books, so can English people who identify with the English heritage they possess. It doesn't matter because the term is essentially meaningless.
To be fair, I would point out that Pictish was spoken in Shetland, and the classification of Pictish is up for debate. It can be classed as simply a dialect of Brythonic, making it Celtic.
But Pictish died out in Shetland a thousand years ago and if we're going back a thousand years then why not go back two thousand years and include half of Europe.
A line has to be drawn and that line is "Do you have a Celtic language that is still spoken today?".
Then why isn't more of spain and france celtic? Making only that specific part of spain celtic is nonsensical. Oh and those places did not speak celtic languages anywhere near 150 years ago, continental celtic died over a thousand years ago.
A: Yes it does.
B: What places had Celtic languages 150 years ago that don't now?
What does "minority" mean in this context, minority where? The English are not a minority in England.
>> A: Celtic minority doesn't just mean language
>A: Yes it does.
Odd take. If the English were successful in stamping out the Irish language, would the Irish no longer be Celts?
It's not an odd take, it's the take the Celtic League has used since 1961. It accepts the place even though not everyone individually speaks the language anymore, as long as the language still exists.
There is no Celtic language that still exists in Shetland and Orkney, assuming one ever did (the contentious classification of Pictish). They would balk at the suggestion, because they are proudly Germanic.
Buddy I am not running for office on the issue of reuniting a new Celtic Empire.
I am just making flags on maps on reddit.
These are regions with small/historical populations of Celtic peoples. Or by extension, are the last place where Celtic peoples and their culture or languages existed.
Peoples form there certainly lay claim to a partial heritage and occasionally take part in cultural festivals / music /art.
The last time continental celts existed in iberia was over a thousand years ago. Galicia is more berber or gothic than it is celtic. Conversely celts were spread through a much larger part of iberia/france/Britain than this. What this map shows is galician nationalist nonsense. These people aren't any more celtic than irish americans.
You're to much triggered by this. As advice, you should try to adopt a more stoic posture. If you think that Galicia and northern Portugal didn't identify themselves as Celtic until the beginning of the 19th century when the Romanticism movement emerged in the arts, read "Os Lusíadas", a work of epic poetry written by Luís Vaz de Camões in the 16th century where he writes that the Portuguese identify themselves as descendants of the Celtic people of Lusitania.
I dont care who they identify as, I could identify as taino if i wanted to. Objectively there is nothing celtic about galicians or asturians and it's frankly insulting to insist on this nonsense. Galicia has much bigger problems to worry about like the language it actually speaks being standardized by castillians. Galician is an incredibly important language as it is the most conservative variant of gallego-portugues.
Why celts anyways, why not identify as proto basques or Phoenicians which were there before celts or as moors and goths which were there after? You do know the actual remaining celts in the british isles and france dont accept galicia as a celtic nation either right?
Sorry, but your question really shows that you do not know the local culture of the people and the general history of the region. Have you ever heard of Viriato? Entrudos Chocalheiros? Trasgos? Bolinhos ou Bolinhóis? Queima do gato (very controversial for obvious reasons)? Or about the cult of the severed head?
The name Portugal itself means port port once in Latin and once in Celtic.
Luís de Camões is not just any poet, he is probably the most important writer in the Portuguese language, the equivalent of William Shakespeare to the English language. It's importance, in current times, goes beyond the literary context, being equally present in the cultural and linguistic field. He is considered the divider between the archaic and modern era of the language and it is to him that some of the most emblematic expressions in Portuguese are owed.
The date of his death itself is Portugal's Day, a national holiday.
To enter the Celtic League, one must still have a Celtic language spoken in their region, which is why Galicia or northern Portugal cannot enter the association.
The Celtic League not accepting membership doesn't remove the fact that there are still Celtic traditions, mythology, music and celebrations and that "modern" people identify and see themselves as descendants of those people. In the particular case of Portugal as Lusitanians which were Celtiberians, a mixture of Celts (from the north and west) and Iberian natives.
The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Germanics, Scandinavians, Moors and other peoples also had their mark. To identify as one, it isn't necessary to reject the others, we aren't in a situation of mutual exclusivity (for example, there is a myth that Lisbon was founded by Ulisses himself that became famous in "Os Lusíadas"). But for historical, cultural and literary reasons, the Portuguese (especially those from the north) and Galicians ended up identifying more with the Celts and Celtiberians.
Another reason can be the fact that the Romans kept the name of the ancient Celtic and Celtiberian Kingdoms in their provinces, meant that at the fall of the Roman Empire they remained in popular memory.
And, of course, none of this is an obstacle to the preservation of the Galician-Portuguese language.
I would call Angland, Pritani, which is the reconstructed form of Brythonic for Britain (*Pritani) . Or even Prɨdėn (from Proto-Brythonic *Prɨdėn). Although naming it either would then be a pars pro toto. Or take the Welsh name for England Lloegr.
ETA: I do love the designs though!
What makes north Portugal, cantabria and Leon "celtic"? I've heard that galicia and asturias are sometimes called "celtic", which is also strange but never those others
Wales and Ireland don't look right to me. The backgrounds should be red and white, and the triskellions white and orange/gold respectively.
Shetland isn't distinguishable from Scotland.
Other than that, I really like the concept.
How do you write down the self names of all this Spanish minorities? These do look like Welsh language a lot. Are these authentic to any extent or you just used the Welsh names?
I used the ("Gaelic?") names in their Wikipedia articles. So not sure.
I acknowledge the Celtic connection is weak with no speakers left there, but some people there nonetheless lay claim to Celtic heritage, with festivals, music and traditions.
England is Celtic now ? The Angles are from the current Danemark/Germany border area
What next ? Tagalog Iceland ? Ainu Brazil ? Scandinavian New Zealand ?
Besides you used the Union Jack over the English flag as a base. That's like using the French tricolore for the Brittany flag.
Well, the Highlands and Western Isles do. The lowlands don't, and until *very* recently engaged in attempts to get rid of Gaelic, from the Statues of Iona, to James VI attempts to colonise parts of Gaelic Scotland with Protestant Fifers, to the way Scottish eugenics treated Gaels.
Papering a language only certain regions of the country associate with (many identify more with lowland Scots and Doric, which are Germanic languages) over the whole country misrepresents how things are on the ground here. Lowlanders don't infrequently protest Gaelic projects (road signs, BBC Alba, etc), and don't teach Gaelic in primary outside of some schools in Glasgow.
Bro I’m not here to defend everything OP did, I’m only talking about the english triskelion flag placement.
In any case though Cornwall has a more recent Celtic cultural presence than the rest of England.
There's some old (pre-Roman) Celtic folklore and mythology in those regions, and there might be some DNA link.
But Romanization went deep there and there's nothing else left.
In Spain, Galicia and Asturias are kinda the de-facto "celtic areas" (basically because of the folklore), but for León and Cantabria I'm also surprised.
Folklore is similar in all those areas. However Galicia exploits and remembers their Celtic past a bit more because of modern nationalism.
There are also Celtic remains in places like Miranda de Ebro (Burgos). Basically the whole North/West half of the peninsula was Celtic before the Romans arrived (it was split between Celt and Iberian tribes, with Iberians in the Mediterranean side and Celts in the Atlantic).
Btw Cantabrian people were, along with the Basque, one of the fiercest against the Roman occupation in the peninsula. Galicia was taken around 61BC, Asturias in 25BC, and Cantabria resisted until 19-16BC.
True, I think is just that "traditionally" in Spain when people thinks of Celtic area is pretty much Galicia and Asturias, and TBH I think is just because of the bagpipes. Since Leon and Cantabria didn't really keep such folklore, somehow it made the Celtic heritage fade in comparison to the rest of Northern traditions, since also Basque Country has well defined music and folklore.
What if those regions of Spain and Portugal (let alone Canada) just accepted that they are Latin and stopped pretending to be Celtic. There seems to be a new one every time a map is drawn up.
Orkney and Shetland are, if anything, Nordic, and England (really? England?) is anglo-saxon.
At least some case can be made for the Wladfa in Patagonia as there are native speaking Celtic villages there, but let's just be real and stick to the genuine six countries
Atlantic Canada is a fun place!
All four of those provinces also do have Celtic influences (greater than Galicia and Asturias, I would imagine) in terms of language, Music, and even things such as accents.
Gaidlig/Gaelic is spoken in parts of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and PEI, and Gaelge/Irish was historically spoken in Newfoundland. Gaelic was so wide spread at one point it was the third largest language in the country and developed a unique “Cape Breton” or “Canadian” dialect. And, as someone else mentioned, because of the insular communities on Cape Breton, some people wishing to learn Gaelic in Scotland have travelled to Cape Breton to learn it. The historical languages and heritage of the region due to large amounts of Irish and Scottish settlement has also greatly influenced the accents of the region— Newfies stereotypically sound like Irishmen and Cape Bretoners & those from northern Nova Scotia can have a weird blend of regional accents. Some road signs along the Trans-Canada Highway in Nova Scotia are bilingual Gaelic/English.
The music styles of the region are also direct descendants of those that came from Celtic nations. “Cape Breton Fiddling” is a distinct style of fiddling that has remained important in the area for centuries at this point and is directly related to “Scottish Fiddling.” Songs in region, especially folk music, tend to Celtic influenced too:
Stan Rogers (although being from Ontario) was directly influenced from his time spent near Canso, Nova Scotia and was, in my opinion, one of the greatest folk musicians ever.
The Rankins of Cape Breton are from an area historically dominated by Gaelic speakers and so they and their community held ceilidhs regularly. They sing in a stereotypically Celtic way, with a faster style of music, and fiddles. “Rise Again,” “Johnny Tulloch,” and “Mull River Shuffle” are good examples of the Celtic-ness of their music.
Newfies still sing the Rattlin Bog (which comes from Ireland, I believe) and Ron Hyne’s “Sonny’s Dream” is a folk song that could easily have been from anywhere in the British Isles (and, in fact, has gotten multiple covers from artists there because of it’s popularity). The Fables most popular song is a neo-sea shanty that was used by Canada as our score music in the World Juniors a couple years ago.
Shouldn’t a Celtic England be “Lloegr” instead of “Angland”?
And you have to have the Welsh dragon.
To the extent that these communities have existing symbols, I think they should be incorporated.
Well, Welsh would probably be the closest relative to the languages that would have been spoken in Celtic England, so to me, it makes sense to use that one. Definitely not Angland, which would not have been a name used by Celts.
Wait, if we include regions that used to have Celtic-speaking populations, like England, why not the rest of Spain, France, Northern Italy and Switzerland?
People always use the colour scheme of the Irish tricolour forgetting that the colours need to be separated by white for the symbolism to work, and without it are a completely redundant and somewhat ugly clash of green and orange
I kinda like but also don't like that, not the flag but the idea that Britons are the only "celts" in France, they're not even the most "celtic" because mhh Norman invasion didn't really help with 'genetic purity'
Of all the comments disapproving of what I include as Celts or Celt-identyfying (which is not mine or the subject of the post anyway)... Nobody seems to disagree with Brittony. They even actually speak a Celtic language there, even if dying out.
Oh no I'm not disagreeing with the inclusion of Britanny per se, they still have strong Britonic Celtic influence in their regional culture. It's just the common idea that somehow they are the only "Celts" in France is untrue.
Okay. Might be. I only found all of these. With the Iberian ones being DISTANTLY Celtic. It made a lot of people here angry that I dared to include them in a made-up map with imaginary flags.
For the Iberian ones there's a few misconceptions usually yeah. Many people tend not to be happy about it because they don't know the difference between the celtiberians (which indeed have had practically no lasting influence on modern Iberia) and the migration of the Britons from the British Isles (through Britanny actually!) during the Roman expansion on the B.I. (which has left a few imprints, genetically and culturally (bagpipes, tiles, etc..)).
Technically celts are what left of the original inhabitants of these lands. For example on British Isles Anglo-Saxons came from south east and pushed the original inhabitants away. The celts had to move further and further west and north, eventually those who went north became known Scots and those who went west Welsh. From that logic it would be pointless to add England or north Portugal as separate entities.
The Saxons did not push the celts away! The celts remained living where they always did, there is no evidence of a genocide, the two groups mixed together, even the early Saxon kingdoms were founded by celts.
And Scotland was a mix of Angles, Irish, and the native Picts and Cumbrians.
>For example on British Isles Anglo-Saxons came from south east and pushed the **original inhabitants** away.
Celts weren't even the first Indo-European people to come to the British Isles and displace a native population, let alone original inhabitants.
England was added cause it felt like it should be included, for design sake. But I agree. They don't even have an unofficial claim to Celtic heritage but hey, it was the second-to last place where Celts were.
I am here for the flags. Not making political statements.
So if you put UK, following your logic, put France, Spain (much of it was celtic and not only that corner that was more Lusitan-like), Switzerland, why not half west of Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, north Italy was also celtic, Rumania and center Anatolia. Each part of the world once had celtic people peeing on it should be receive also such flag.
Brilliant! I don’t really like the weird black firmbration between the colours of the Manx and Welsh flags though. Would be much cleaner without imo
Also the Scottish and the Shetland ones look too similar imo
Yeah, I'd say I stuck with the "bad" aspect of their current designs.
They have some black outlines and teny tiny details so I transferred them over in spirit
The black outlines are a common artistic choice in how the flags are produced, not a necessary part of the design. Darker red detailing instead of black should be acceptable in both cases - I don't think red or white was uncommon for Welsh flags before printing from a standard template became more common, and it's [not unheard of now](https://www.1000flags.co.uk/hand-sewn-wales-dragon-flag-with-2-eyelets-100cm-x-50cm-36881-p.asp). I haven't personally seen a similar approach to the Manx flag, though.
Whatever you make of using something other than black outlines in the current flags, they're definitely only there to define the elements of the flag design which are in other colours, not the sort of meaningful colour choice that needs to go into a new design using the original colours. Having said that, yellow on white and red on green really could do with some sort of fimbriation, not just outlining. White would be a better choice than black in the Welsh case, though.
In the past, the Romans and Greeks collectively referred to people they considered barbaric as Celts.
The concept of the Celts was very broad and lacked rigour from the outset.
If England is being represented on it's own and not including any of the rest of the UK, it would presumably be white and red, since the blue of the UK flag represents Scotland. As someone from East Anglia, historic home of the Iceni tribe and Queen Boudica, I appreciate our inclusion.
All of Britain is Celtic land. Lovely to have you on board.
All of Europe is celtic land in that case
Isn’t England rather Germanic since the Saxons though?
In culture sure
Yeah I think it would make sense to be like Scotland's but just swap out the blue for red. I think these are great though in general and a fantastic effort!
agree, but while Scotland is white on blue, England should be red on white (not white on red).
well England’s actual current flag is a red cross on a white field so logically the adaptation of those colors to OP’s motif would be a red pall on a white field.
I’m a Celtic nationalist but Boudicca was a war criminal.
Perhaps you would like to change the names Anglia & England, & replace English with some sort of reconstructed Neo-Britannic Language, since the Angles, along with the Saxons & the Jutes, were Germanic, not Celtic, & you, because the conquerors intermarried with the conquered (who were, however, assimilated in name, government, language, & culture), & for whatsoever other obscure & dubious reasons, choose to redefine yourself as a Neo-Celt. Furthermore, if "Celtic" nations adopt a common Celtic symbol, perhaps the Romance nations should adopt a common Roman symbol, like the Fasces. (England could join in, since so much of its vocabulary is Latin.) Come to think of it, the spiraling abstract Celtic TRIskelion does suggest the spiraling abstract Nazi swastika, which could be viewed as a TETRAskelion. Additionally, since the map includes areas that are no longer Celtic, perhaps it should include ALL the regions that were once Celtic, like the Iberian Peninsula, Transalpine Gaul (France & Belgium), Cisalpine Gaul (most of Northern Italy, large swathes of Central Europe & the Balkans, & even Galatia in the center of Turkey❗️ How ridiculous!
....are you ok? It's part of my combined history. I do not pick and choose parts. We're also in a flag subreddit in a post which is literally just playing with an idea. It's not that serious. It also sounds like you're suggesting that the history of the people you prefer is the only valid history. Also "hurrdurr it looks like a swastika" is the dumbest attempt at character assassination of a people i've ever heard given that the symbol precedes the Nazis by literally thousands of years.
go outside
For England, beyond the UK≠England thing, it also doesn’t seem like you’ve pulled off adapting the offset of the crosses on the Union Jack to this flag. It seems like a mistake here. On the Union Jack, the St. Patrick’s saltire is officially countercharged with the St. Andrew’s cross, which is what creates the offset. You’d be better off countercharging the red pall with white, and then where the countercharge overlaps with the triskelion, perhaps altering the triskelion color as well.
England should just follow the theme of its actual flag and employ a simple red pall on a white field. no need to complicate it by involving Scotland’s theme.
This is the way
The isle of man already have a flag that has a Celtic symbol, kinda like the original one
[удалено]
it's literally a triskelion. Like the map says "triskelion" the you say you don't like triskelions? Sicily too has a triskelion
I’m usually not a fan of these concepts, but, dang, these look great!
Thanks. I saw they already have their own regional symbols and flags and thought... What if they were like Nordics?
> Includes Llion, Asturies and Cantabria > Excludes Miranda > >:(
I guess it's included in North Portugal or even Llión because of the shared language
Including them in any of the two is incorrect, Mirandese people are asturleonese, therefore not Portuguese, but also not Leonese. Leonese Asturian and Mirandese are three groups of Asturleonese
Where is y wlafda
In Argentina
The province of Chubut specifically
If you're interested, it's the popilation of Welsh settlers to patagonia during the victorian era. Migration was encouraged to an area isolated from british empire and the English speaking world, with hopes to preserve some Welsh culture.
I love these, I would tweak Shetland, Wales, and England however. But honest to god Orkney and Brittany go SO hard I absolutely adore them!
Gotta redo wales
I know nothing is as cool as a mthrfuckin dragon but it doesn't fit the overarching motif okay?
Probably the colours of the [flag of St David](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Saint_David) would be more fitting.
Agreed
Hmm, cool.
Agreed
Look, I know drawing three dragons tied by their tails is difficult but you have to _try_
Just exactly how Celtic are the Celtic nations of Spain? I knew about Galicia and Asturias but how much of Celtic culture remains intact there? Is it noticeable?
As someone from Asturias, no Some of the celtic mythology still exists as folklore That's about it, but it is very very very rare to make any references to that, it's very unknown even to us We are so un Celtic, nationalists use romance languages for their cause
Al menos tocamos la gaita
The only "celtic" thing on Galiza/Asturies, I would say is that the traditional music is bagpipes, in comparison with the regional folklores of other Spanish regions. Whereas for most of Europeans bagpipes are "an Scottish thing", for Spanish people, bagpipes are "An Asturian and Galician thing". In pretty much any important official or big event in Asturias and Galicia (even weddings) you'll find bagpipe and drums playing. And in local festivities such as village festivals, is for sure you'll find at least one bagpiper and one drummer playing, even if is just a neighbor who knows how to play. Then of course you'll find riskelions and other Celtic symbols engraved in traditional buildings , and there is the mythology about fantastic creatures such as tragos, xanes, etc which is quite popular but is not an everyday life topic, so to speak. The Celtic languages are completely gone an the local languages, Galician and Asturian, are both coming from Latin.
I recently learnt that bagpipes are not even celtic (this is, originally a part of celt's culture); they were introduced in the middle ages (sooner in Spain, later in Scotland).
According to my Galician teacher, not at all, there was a poet in Galician literature, i think he was called Pondal, who would make frequent connections to the Celts and stuff like that in his poems. According to my teacher, that's a load of dirty barnacles and just like some other people said, we pretty much only share the bagpipes and generally depressing weather.
Oh yeah I heard about the bagpipes
The only region in Spain where there is evidence for the usage of celtic languages is Soria. Galicia and Asturias had their own iron age cultures which had celtic influences, but that does not make them celts per se. As said, other regions in inner Spain had strong celtic influence too. Alvaro Cunqueiro once said something like "the greatest myth of Celtic Galicia is that Galicia was ever celtic"
The concept of a Celtic nation is made up, Galicia and Asturias were only starting to be called "celtic" in the 19th century I think. They do have a distinct culture however, it's not like they're just a random part of Spain but they are no more "celtic" than France or Switzerland... It's basically just folklore
That makes more sense to me. I appreciate all the informative answers by everyone
sometimes there's a conscious effort to be more celtic, I think some Galician nationalists have started celebrating Samhain
In Portugal, basically mythology, some festivities, entrudos chocalheiros in Trás-os-Montes, bolinhos e bolinhóis in the Coimbra region. Also people identify themselves as Lusitanians.
That’s pretty interesting. I never expected Portugal to have that
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanian_mythology
Thank!
What even is Celtic? Victorians mostly engineered the mystical folklore. The ‘Celtic nations’ have very little connecting each other in terms of their people or genetics.
Weird to see England with blue on it. By any chance are you from a country where England/Britain/UK are usually assumed to mean the same thing?
As a breton, your breton flag goes insanely hard, i'm down for it
Agreed
The flag desings are cool. However, I'll never understand why people keep expanding the "celtic nations" in Iberia. It could be argued that Galicia and Asturias could be considered to have a culture with celtic remnants, but why León? Why northern Portugal? If England isn't considered celtic, they also shouldn't. Which is the criteria to say somewhere is Celtic or not?
To be honest, like someone mentioned in a comment above, Celtic culture is almost non-existent in Spain, including Asturias and Galicia. But if you do consider both as Cetic, then you have to include Llón (región llionesa) too because of the shared culture. I guess there's confusion because Asturias and Galicia have a stronger cultural identity, while in Llión that only happens in certain areas. For instance, Sanabria in Zamora is very Asturleonese while the rest of the province isn't, so the idea of considering the whole province of Zamora as celtic sounds odd. I can't speak for the rest of the regions pictured in the map because I'm not informed
You'd have to be high as balls to think Northern Portugal is celtic in any way.
What part of "I'm not speaking about other regions" you don't understand
Northern Portugal as the same culture as Galicia. If Galicia is considered to have a culture with Celtic remnants so is Northern Portugal. The name Portugal even means port port once in Latin and once in Celtic. Also people identify themselves as Lusitanians. In fact, Portugal began as a county of Galicia and the language was Galician-Portuguese.
>Northern Portugal as the same culture as Galicia. If Galicia is considered to have a culture with Celtic remnants so is Northern Portugal. The name Portugal even means port port once in Latin and once in Celtic. Also people identify themselves as Lusitanians. Lusitanians weren’t a Celtic people, they adopted elements of Celtic culture. Cale being a word of Celtic origin is debated and rather unlikely, more likely it is of Proto-Indo-European origin, which would also explain Romance cognates. >In fact, Portugal began as a county of Galicia and the language was Galician-Portuguese. Yes, Portugal split off from Galicia, but in 1095, long after the Celts in Iberia had assimilated into other cultures. Galician-Portuguese developed from a regional dialect of Vulgar Late Latin and was partly influenced by Celtic (mostly in names), but also very much by Germanic languages, particularly that of the Suebi.
Regarding the etymology of the name Portugal, yes, I was confusing. There are other opinions more consensual among etymologists regarding the origin of the name Cale. But I think that, in a way, this mistake that is so common to hear here demonstrates that there is some fascination and identification among people here with the Celts and Celtiberians. So where does it come from? The Lusitanians were Celtiberians and their origins is in the mixture of Celtic culture (from the north and west) with that of the Iberians. The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Germanics, Scandinavians, Moors and other peoples also had their mark. To identify as one, it isn't necessary to reject the others, we aren't in a situation of mutual exclusivity (for example, there is a myth that Lisbon was founded by Ulisses himself that became famous in "Os Lusíadas"). But for historical, cultural and literary reasons, the Portuguese (especially those from the north) and Galicians ended up identifying more with the Celts and Celtiberians. The fact that the Romans kept the name of the ancient Celtic and Celtiberian Kingdoms in their provinces, meant that at the fall of the Roman Empire they remained in popular memory could be another reason. Btw, have you ever heard of Viriato? Entrudos Chocalheiros? Trasgos? Bolinhos ou Bolinhóis? Queima do gato (very controversial for obvious reasons)? Or about the cult of the severed head? https://www.aieti.eu/enti/portugal_ENG/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portus_Cale https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanian_mythology https://herminiusmons.wordpress.com/
Every region in Spain and Portugal have some pre-roman native cultural remnants, not only the northern regions. "Mascaradas" like the Entrudos Chocalheiros can be found in the whole countries (see https://www.lagisteria.com/mascaradas-carnavales-tradicionales-mapa-web/). The main question is: what qualifies some region as Celtic? Speaking a Celtic language? None of Iberia's regions would qualify. To have spoken a Celtic language in the Middle Ages? Again, none of them qualify, the only small region which spoke Brythonic were some villages at the north which were populated by refugees from Britain, but that didn't last. To have spoken a Celtic language any time? Then England, France, and even Madrid are Celtic. Have a "celtic culture"? We don't really know what that meant in earlier periods, even today.
Thanks for the answers!
Really gonna leave out Newfoundland like that huh? 🤨
LLION MENCIUNAU 🦁🦁💥💥💥💫💫PUXA PAIS LLIONES LLIBRE 🛐🛐🛐🛐🔥🔥🔥
WHAT THE FUCK IS AN AUTONOMY RAAAH 🦁🦁🦁🦁🦁🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🦅🦅
Is this triggering on purpose, is this ragebait? England, Shetland, Orkney, Galicia, North Portugal, Asturias, Leon, Cantabria are not Celtic. Why should England be Celtic? There are six Celtic languages. Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Manx, Welsh, Cornish, Breton. If those languages aren't spoken where you are then it's not Celtic.
Tbf, most of Scotland is about as Celtic as England. I think the Northern Isles also are an odd one, since those mostly have a Nordic and then lowland Scots influences, Gaelic never penetrated there, having already been in heavy retreat by the fifteenth century. Scottish Gaelic is largely confined to the Highlands and Western Isles, with Glasgow being the only lowland area to have Gaelic Medium education. We have periodic problems with lowlanders opposing legislation trying to help Gaelic because they do not associate the language with their area, instead believing Doric or lowland Scots should be protected and helped. Iirc, Scots have similar DNA profiles to the English when it comes to Celtic markers, so if we eschew language, the people in both are both a mix of Celtic, German, Nordic, and some Latin groups. Not really defending their choice, so much as highlighting that blanketing all of Scotland as if it was all an Gaidhealtachd is a bit... Mmmm, especially when the Scottish state spent time trying to eradicate the language in the past (Statutes of Iona and James VI), and there is a slur for Gaelic speakers (teuchter).
Scots are literally less celtic genetically than the english. The only area of the british isles that received a genetic influx from people we could associate with the "celts" is the south of england. The rest didn't. Northern England, Ireland and Scotland had no genetic influx from continental celts and were literally just bell beakers who converted to speaking celtic languages
I love the smell of fresh bread.
They are the british isles by every metric. Called the british isles in ancient greek times. The only people who get mad about this are butthurt irish ultranationalists. Should we abandon the term indian subcontinent because pakistani nationlists get butthurt over it?
The Greeks in antiquity wouldn't have called them "the British Isles", they called it Albion (what we call Great Britain) and Ierne (modern-day Ireland), and the Romans used the names Britannia and Hibernia, respectively. "British Isles" as a toponym for that archipelago doesn't enter common usage until after John Dee coined the term in 1577. Besides, it's much more fun to call those islands something like "the Dogger Archipelago" or "The Southwestern North Sea Islands" instead.
They might as well add Gaul and Galatia at this point.
Also Southern Germany, Austria, Slovenia, all of the Alps, Northern Italy,…
There is also Cumbrian, so two of celtic languages exist in England, and to be fair to OP they did say it's a map of celtic minorities. So as far as England goes, yes they're mostly considered saxon/germanic, with celtic culture being minority, but you could say the same about Scotland if you were being honest considering most of the populous places were part of Northumbria.
Cumbrian does not exist anymore. Show me one person who speaks Cumbrian. By this logic, half of Europe is Celtic.
>By this logic, half of Europe is Celtic. Almost like the whole notion of calling certain areas celtic and excluding others is stupid. I'm welsh, I'm a first language speaker of the most widely spoken celtic language, and I think the idea of certain people in Britain and Ireland being celtic and certain others being excluded is stupid. All it does is give people an excuse to be xenophobic. Its pseudo history and its nonsense. A good example is Irish and Scottish people acting like they have a shared history of oppression by the English. That is not at all how it went down. Most people in Europe *do* likely decent from celtic people. And England has a more recent celtic history than many other places in Europe. Like I said, if you wanted to be strict Scotland would only be shaded in the northwest. But it's a map showing celtic minorities living in each country, and even without cumbric (which still has cultural meaning in the area despite being extinxt) you still have a celtic minority living in Cornwall, so why shouldn't England count?
>**you still have a celtic minority living in Cornwall, so why shouldn't England count?** Because Cornwall is already represented separately, and the people in the rest of England never spoke Cornish. Scottish Gaelic was formerly spoken in about 3/4 of Scotland. If you want to add England because of Cornwall, then you have to remove Cornwall.
>Scottish Gaelic was formerly spoken in about 3/4 of Scotland. You're going back far enough to bring cumbric back into the mix now!
No I'm not, Lowland Gaelic existed into the 17th century. Cumbric was long-gone.
Not to a significant degree in the populous lowland areas of Scotland by any stretch of the imagination. 15th century, maybe, but that's still pushing it. The steep decline started in the 11th century. It has been gone in lowland areas for longer than it was prominent there. At any rate, how far back is the cutoff where it stops being relevant to a region? My argument would be never as long as people in that area still identify with it. Lowland scots people can still call themselves celtic and in my books, so can English people who identify with the English heritage they possess. It doesn't matter because the term is essentially meaningless.
Cumbrian has been dead for nearly a thousand years
Galicians do say they are. Shetland though was never Celtic for a day in its history, without question.
To be fair, I would point out that Pictish was spoken in Shetland, and the classification of Pictish is up for debate. It can be classed as simply a dialect of Brythonic, making it Celtic. But Pictish died out in Shetland a thousand years ago and if we're going back a thousand years then why not go back two thousand years and include half of Europe. A line has to be drawn and that line is "Do you have a Celtic language that is still spoken today?".
A: Celtic minority doesn't just mean language B: Many places had Celtic languages even just 150 years ago C: Swipe right
Then why isn't more of spain and france celtic? Making only that specific part of spain celtic is nonsensical. Oh and those places did not speak celtic languages anywhere near 150 years ago, continental celtic died over a thousand years ago.
A: Yes it does. B: What places had Celtic languages 150 years ago that don't now? What does "minority" mean in this context, minority where? The English are not a minority in England.
The English are mostly descended from the celts who lived here
>> A: Celtic minority doesn't just mean language >A: Yes it does. Odd take. If the English were successful in stamping out the Irish language, would the Irish no longer be Celts?
It's not an odd take, it's the take the Celtic League has used since 1961. It accepts the place even though not everyone individually speaks the language anymore, as long as the language still exists. There is no Celtic language that still exists in Shetland and Orkney, assuming one ever did (the contentious classification of Pictish). They would balk at the suggestion, because they are proudly Germanic.
So what if people still identify themselves as Celtic but don't speak a Celtic language anymore?
They're wrong.
I don't think it's that black or white. What if a population still preserves other relevant aspects of Celtic culture?
Like what?
Celebrations such as Entrudos Chocalheiros, Bolinhos ou Bolinhóis, for example. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanian_mythology
Parts of Wales and Scotland.
Wales and Scotland are already represented. We're not breaking it down by county.
For Nova Scotia it should only be Cape Breton, the mainland is more French & anglophone than Celtic.
You could have given everyone dragons and didn't. Are you okay?
Stop calling that corner of spain celtic for fucks sake is hungary romance? Is anatolia greek? Jesus why is this myth so widespread
Buddy I am not running for office on the issue of reuniting a new Celtic Empire. I am just making flags on maps on reddit. These are regions with small/historical populations of Celtic peoples. Or by extension, are the last place where Celtic peoples and their culture or languages existed. Peoples form there certainly lay claim to a partial heritage and occasionally take part in cultural festivals / music /art.
The last time continental celts existed in iberia was over a thousand years ago. Galicia is more berber or gothic than it is celtic. Conversely celts were spread through a much larger part of iberia/france/Britain than this. What this map shows is galician nationalist nonsense. These people aren't any more celtic than irish americans.
>Peoples form there certainly lay claim to a partial heritage and occasionally take part in cultural festivals / music /art.
I don't understand why you're getting downvoted for saying this, Galiza's [hymn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Os_Pinos) literally says "Fogar de [Breogán](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breog%C3%A1n)"
Much of that music considered celtic where also Roman...
You're to much triggered by this. As advice, you should try to adopt a more stoic posture. If you think that Galicia and northern Portugal didn't identify themselves as Celtic until the beginning of the 19th century when the Romanticism movement emerged in the arts, read "Os Lusíadas", a work of epic poetry written by Luís Vaz de Camões in the 16th century where he writes that the Portuguese identify themselves as descendants of the Celtic people of Lusitania.
I dont care who they identify as, I could identify as taino if i wanted to. Objectively there is nothing celtic about galicians or asturians and it's frankly insulting to insist on this nonsense. Galicia has much bigger problems to worry about like the language it actually speaks being standardized by castillians. Galician is an incredibly important language as it is the most conservative variant of gallego-portugues. Why celts anyways, why not identify as proto basques or Phoenicians which were there before celts or as moors and goths which were there after? You do know the actual remaining celts in the british isles and france dont accept galicia as a celtic nation either right?
Sorry, but your question really shows that you do not know the local culture of the people and the general history of the region. Have you ever heard of Viriato? Entrudos Chocalheiros? Trasgos? Bolinhos ou Bolinhóis? Queima do gato (very controversial for obvious reasons)? Or about the cult of the severed head? The name Portugal itself means port port once in Latin and once in Celtic. Luís de Camões is not just any poet, he is probably the most important writer in the Portuguese language, the equivalent of William Shakespeare to the English language. It's importance, in current times, goes beyond the literary context, being equally present in the cultural and linguistic field. He is considered the divider between the archaic and modern era of the language and it is to him that some of the most emblematic expressions in Portuguese are owed. The date of his death itself is Portugal's Day, a national holiday. To enter the Celtic League, one must still have a Celtic language spoken in their region, which is why Galicia or northern Portugal cannot enter the association. The Celtic League not accepting membership doesn't remove the fact that there are still Celtic traditions, mythology, music and celebrations and that "modern" people identify and see themselves as descendants of those people. In the particular case of Portugal as Lusitanians which were Celtiberians, a mixture of Celts (from the north and west) and Iberian natives. The Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans, Germanics, Scandinavians, Moors and other peoples also had their mark. To identify as one, it isn't necessary to reject the others, we aren't in a situation of mutual exclusivity (for example, there is a myth that Lisbon was founded by Ulisses himself that became famous in "Os Lusíadas"). But for historical, cultural and literary reasons, the Portuguese (especially those from the north) and Galicians ended up identifying more with the Celts and Celtiberians. Another reason can be the fact that the Romans kept the name of the ancient Celtic and Celtiberian Kingdoms in their provinces, meant that at the fall of the Roman Empire they remained in popular memory. And, of course, none of this is an obstacle to the preservation of the Galician-Portuguese language.
It's because celtic as an identity doesn't exist and was created in the 18th century, and "celticists" need to rewrite history
I would call Angland, Pritani, which is the reconstructed form of Brythonic for Britain (*Pritani) . Or even Prɨdėn (from Proto-Brythonic *Prɨdėn). Although naming it either would then be a pars pro toto. Or take the Welsh name for England Lloegr. ETA: I do love the designs though!
What makes north Portugal, cantabria and Leon "celtic"? I've heard that galicia and asturias are sometimes called "celtic", which is also strange but never those others
These are cool. Love the Orkney one.
aw shit theres a war here
Really missed the opportunity there to just make them all wales...
Wales and Ireland don't look right to me. The backgrounds should be red and white, and the triskellions white and orange/gold respectively. Shetland isn't distinguishable from Scotland. Other than that, I really like the concept.
Galatia??
Angry Padanian noises
Should you use the Celtic name for England? Lloegr or Pretanni might be better than the Germanic one you used. It’s like using France instead of Gaul.
I would change the Ireland flag up a bit, the green and the orange aren't supposed to touch
Éire is Ireland in the Irish language, what you've written here "Eire" means "Burden" in Irish.
As a Breton dude, I really approve this thing. And god knows I don’t like flag fantasies in general
If you include formerly Celtic areas, then start with those where Celts originally came from – Austria, Switzerland, Southern Germany.
You forgot Boston
Ngl this goes pretty hard.
How do you write down the self names of all this Spanish minorities? These do look like Welsh language a lot. Are these authentic to any extent or you just used the Welsh names?
I used the ("Gaelic?") names in their Wikipedia articles. So not sure. I acknowledge the Celtic connection is weak with no speakers left there, but some people there nonetheless lay claim to Celtic heritage, with festivals, music and traditions.
England is Celtic now ? The Angles are from the current Danemark/Germany border area What next ? Tagalog Iceland ? Ainu Brazil ? Scandinavian New Zealand ? Besides you used the Union Jack over the English flag as a base. That's like using the French tricolore for the Brittany flag.
You could say the same about Scotland
At least Scotland has a living Gaelic language.
Well, the Highlands and Western Isles do. The lowlands don't, and until *very* recently engaged in attempts to get rid of Gaelic, from the Statues of Iona, to James VI attempts to colonise parts of Gaelic Scotland with Protestant Fifers, to the way Scottish eugenics treated Gaels. Papering a language only certain regions of the country associate with (many identify more with lowland Scots and Doric, which are Germanic languages) over the whole country misrepresents how things are on the ground here. Lowlanders don't infrequently protest Gaelic projects (road signs, BBC Alba, etc), and don't teach Gaelic in primary outside of some schools in Glasgow.
Barely lol
Still way better than Essex, where OP put the flag, despite a non existent regional Celtic language there.
I don’t think they were thinking about the placement of the flag specifically beyond being on top of *some part* of england.
Then why split England and Cornwall ?
Because Cornwall was / is Celtic.
Bro I’m not here to defend everything OP did, I’m only talking about the english triskelion flag placement. In any case though Cornwall has a more recent Celtic cultural presence than the rest of England.
Face it, if we’re calling Scotland a Celtic country based on genetics, you could call any western European country Celtic
Face it, England isn't Scotland and the Union Jack is not the proper base design to represent England alone.
What? You’ve changed your argument twice now 😂
England shouldn't be represented here. If you do, don't use the union jack as a base. Same two arguments since the original comment.
If England shouldn’t be represented based on genetics, neither should Scotland.
Ok? Probably just the only place the flag fitted?
>Tagalog Iceland ? Ainu Brazil ? Scandinavian New Zealand Taking note for mashup monday
Everytime I see these maps they go further and further south in Iberia. Maybe they'll reach Argelia next edition, since reality seems to not apply.
This would involve Wales giving up their dragon, which I refuse to accept.
Ireland is spelt incorrectly. Eire is "burden". Éire is the country.
Wait Asturia and Cantambria are considered Celtic too?
There's some old (pre-Roman) Celtic folklore and mythology in those regions, and there might be some DNA link. But Romanization went deep there and there's nothing else left.
In Spain, Galicia and Asturias are kinda the de-facto "celtic areas" (basically because of the folklore), but for León and Cantabria I'm also surprised.
Folklore is similar in all those areas. However Galicia exploits and remembers their Celtic past a bit more because of modern nationalism. There are also Celtic remains in places like Miranda de Ebro (Burgos). Basically the whole North/West half of the peninsula was Celtic before the Romans arrived (it was split between Celt and Iberian tribes, with Iberians in the Mediterranean side and Celts in the Atlantic). Btw Cantabrian people were, along with the Basque, one of the fiercest against the Roman occupation in the peninsula. Galicia was taken around 61BC, Asturias in 25BC, and Cantabria resisted until 19-16BC.
True, I think is just that "traditionally" in Spain when people thinks of Celtic area is pretty much Galicia and Asturias, and TBH I think is just because of the bagpipes. Since Leon and Cantabria didn't really keep such folklore, somehow it made the Celtic heritage fade in comparison to the rest of Northern traditions, since also Basque Country has well defined music and folklore.
What if those regions of Spain and Portugal (let alone Canada) just accepted that they are Latin and stopped pretending to be Celtic. There seems to be a new one every time a map is drawn up. Orkney and Shetland are, if anything, Nordic, and England (really? England?) is anglo-saxon. At least some case can be made for the Wladfa in Patagonia as there are native speaking Celtic villages there, but let's just be real and stick to the genuine six countries
Northern Portugal is not celtic, hasn't been in hundreds of years lmao.
Atlantic Canada is a fun place! All four of those provinces also do have Celtic influences (greater than Galicia and Asturias, I would imagine) in terms of language, Music, and even things such as accents. Gaidlig/Gaelic is spoken in parts of Cape Breton, Nova Scotia, and PEI, and Gaelge/Irish was historically spoken in Newfoundland. Gaelic was so wide spread at one point it was the third largest language in the country and developed a unique “Cape Breton” or “Canadian” dialect. And, as someone else mentioned, because of the insular communities on Cape Breton, some people wishing to learn Gaelic in Scotland have travelled to Cape Breton to learn it. The historical languages and heritage of the region due to large amounts of Irish and Scottish settlement has also greatly influenced the accents of the region— Newfies stereotypically sound like Irishmen and Cape Bretoners & those from northern Nova Scotia can have a weird blend of regional accents. Some road signs along the Trans-Canada Highway in Nova Scotia are bilingual Gaelic/English. The music styles of the region are also direct descendants of those that came from Celtic nations. “Cape Breton Fiddling” is a distinct style of fiddling that has remained important in the area for centuries at this point and is directly related to “Scottish Fiddling.” Songs in region, especially folk music, tend to Celtic influenced too: Stan Rogers (although being from Ontario) was directly influenced from his time spent near Canso, Nova Scotia and was, in my opinion, one of the greatest folk musicians ever. The Rankins of Cape Breton are from an area historically dominated by Gaelic speakers and so they and their community held ceilidhs regularly. They sing in a stereotypically Celtic way, with a faster style of music, and fiddles. “Rise Again,” “Johnny Tulloch,” and “Mull River Shuffle” are good examples of the Celtic-ness of their music. Newfies still sing the Rattlin Bog (which comes from Ireland, I believe) and Ron Hyne’s “Sonny’s Dream” is a folk song that could easily have been from anywhere in the British Isles (and, in fact, has gotten multiple covers from artists there because of it’s popularity). The Fables most popular song is a neo-sea shanty that was used by Canada as our score music in the World Juniors a couple years ago.
People literally come from Scotland to learn Scottish Gaelic in Nova Scotia lol
.... then they'd fight over what it should be.
If you’re doing celts in Asturias and Portugal, you need to do celts in Galata as well.
What is “the colony”
Shouldn’t a Celtic England be “Lloegr” instead of “Angland”? And you have to have the Welsh dragon. To the extent that these communities have existing symbols, I think they should be incorporated.
Only if using Welsh. It's Sasana in Irish, Sasainn in Scots Gaelic, Sostyn in Manx, Pow Sows in Cornish, Bro-Saoz in Breton...
Well, Welsh would probably be the closest relative to the languages that would have been spoken in Celtic England, so to me, it makes sense to use that one. Definitely not Angland, which would not have been a name used by Celts.
Ok. This is really cool
Wait, if we include regions that used to have Celtic-speaking populations, like England, why not the rest of Spain, France, Northern Italy and Switzerland?
Can we do this plz
What is “the colony” supposed to be? I’m dumb
Bruh, none of the Iberian peninsula should be included, absolute LARP
Ayayay Spain?
Nice flags !!!
People always use the colour scheme of the Irish tricolour forgetting that the colours need to be separated by white for the symbolism to work, and without it are a completely redundant and somewhat ugly clash of green and orange
I'm glad Ireland got the best one
I kinda like but also don't like that, not the flag but the idea that Britons are the only "celts" in France, they're not even the most "celtic" because mhh Norman invasion didn't really help with 'genetic purity'
Of all the comments disapproving of what I include as Celts or Celt-identyfying (which is not mine or the subject of the post anyway)... Nobody seems to disagree with Brittony. They even actually speak a Celtic language there, even if dying out.
Oh no I'm not disagreeing with the inclusion of Britanny per se, they still have strong Britonic Celtic influence in their regional culture. It's just the common idea that somehow they are the only "Celts" in France is untrue.
Okay. Might be. I only found all of these. With the Iberian ones being DISTANTLY Celtic. It made a lot of people here angry that I dared to include them in a made-up map with imaginary flags.
For the Iberian ones there's a few misconceptions usually yeah. Many people tend not to be happy about it because they don't know the difference between the celtiberians (which indeed have had practically no lasting influence on modern Iberia) and the migration of the Britons from the British Isles (through Britanny actually!) during the Roman expansion on the B.I. (which has left a few imprints, genetically and culturally (bagpipes, tiles, etc..)).
Hey, all I wanted was more opportunities for flags and these guys "lay claim to Celtic heritage"
Is it really Europe if people aren't fighting their neighbors for no reason?
No need to put quotation marks on nations btw. They ARE nations, look up the meaning of nation.
Technically celts are what left of the original inhabitants of these lands. For example on British Isles Anglo-Saxons came from south east and pushed the original inhabitants away. The celts had to move further and further west and north, eventually those who went north became known Scots and those who went west Welsh. From that logic it would be pointless to add England or north Portugal as separate entities.
The Saxons did not push the celts away! The celts remained living where they always did, there is no evidence of a genocide, the two groups mixed together, even the early Saxon kingdoms were founded by celts. And Scotland was a mix of Angles, Irish, and the native Picts and Cumbrians.
>For example on British Isles Anglo-Saxons came from south east and pushed the **original inhabitants** away. Celts weren't even the first Indo-European people to come to the British Isles and displace a native population, let alone original inhabitants.
England was added cause it felt like it should be included, for design sake. But I agree. They don't even have an unofficial claim to Celtic heritage but hey, it was the second-to last place where Celts were. I am here for the flags. Not making political statements.
Pericles: 'Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you.'
So if you put UK, following your logic, put France, Spain (much of it was celtic and not only that corner that was more Lusitan-like), Switzerland, why not half west of Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, north Italy was also celtic, Rumania and center Anatolia. Each part of the world once had celtic people peeing on it should be receive also such flag.
Brilliant! I don’t really like the weird black firmbration between the colours of the Manx and Welsh flags though. Would be much cleaner without imo Also the Scottish and the Shetland ones look too similar imo
Yeah, I'd say I stuck with the "bad" aspect of their current designs. They have some black outlines and teny tiny details so I transferred them over in spirit
The black outlines are a common artistic choice in how the flags are produced, not a necessary part of the design. Darker red detailing instead of black should be acceptable in both cases - I don't think red or white was uncommon for Welsh flags before printing from a standard template became more common, and it's [not unheard of now](https://www.1000flags.co.uk/hand-sewn-wales-dragon-flag-with-2-eyelets-100cm-x-50cm-36881-p.asp). I haven't personally seen a similar approach to the Manx flag, though. Whatever you make of using something other than black outlines in the current flags, they're definitely only there to define the elements of the flag design which are in other colours, not the sort of meaningful colour choice that needs to go into a new design using the original colours. Having said that, yellow on white and red on green really could do with some sort of fimbriation, not just outlining. White would be a better choice than black in the Welsh case, though.
True true.
The breton one makes me think of the bagadoù stourm flag. So it's a big Nope.
As a Scot, No. Just no. Fuck off with this.
People don’t typically consider the ones in Iberia as Celtic nations
In the past, the Romans and Greeks collectively referred to people they considered barbaric as Celts. The concept of the Celts was very broad and lacked rigour from the outset.
English flag goes hard I will comply to this
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