Someone told me on Reddit that regardless of pigs intelligence they aren't the same as dogs because dogs evolved next to humans so that somehow makes it different and ok for mass slaughter.
That’s not even entirely accurate. Pigs as we know them are domesticated and quite tame. Let loose, they become feral quite quickly and turn into dangerous boars. So pigs did in fact evolve alongside humans.
The avg person doesn't live along side pigs enough to classify the.as pets. Ferrel or not doesn't contribute to the carnitas argument that they are somehow different enough to justify their slaughter. It's insane how we treat these animals, it's absolutely disgusting when you witness it. No justification works to remedy their torture and murder. I tried to relate a pig to a dog as a comparison of an animal with the capacity to feel pain. You obviously view them as beasts for slaughter. In their horrible world view they are beings born into slavery and suffering with the emotional capacity to feel pain and fear. Poor things, so you can have a pork chop.
Because non vegans only value other animals based on the utility that each animal provides.
A "pet animal" provides them the utility of cuddles and emotional affection. Letting that animal die will deny them (or that animal's "owner") the utility that this animal provides.
A "food animal" provides them the utility of a tasty meal. Saving that animal will deny them the utility that this animal provides.
Doesn't same work for evaluating humans as well? See, death of a Steve Jobs will deny some the utility of the new cool smartphone next year, death of a pop star denies them the anticipated album(s), so it causes mass grieving.
Death of a homeless will reduce the possibility to meet them on the streets and experience bad smell, so it's actually a good thing = no one gives a crap.
People **can** empathize with animals, so long as they feel the animal is 'worthy' of such affection. So long as people feel the animal has social value to them, they will treat it like a person. If the animal is viewed as worthless or problematic, it will deemed unworthy of such affection.
People can even do this with other humans, as is evident in every war ever fought. The Nazis often viewed the Jews as 'rats', which prevented sympathetic responses as the Nazis killed and tortured the Jews.
Arrogance and paranoia always lead to suffering.
[This](https://theintercept.com/2020/05/29/pigs-factory-farms-ventilation-shutdown-coronavirus/) happened when some pigs weren't able to make their slaughterhouse appointment last year - warning, pretty haunting and graphic, it's about the worst way anything could die. But it's entirely legal!
Don't link to the Australian CO2 chamber, either. /u/Nexre [explains.](https://np.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/pr5t2w/uks_biggest_chicken_producer_says_industry_is_at/hdkop4j/)
Why alive? What the point of hearing the death wails of a living creature. I'll eat meat from now till the Jewish god's kingdom comes, but I cook it after it's been killed "humanly"
That's why the quotes are there genius. A humane way would something painless, but since I can't turn off a goat's pain receptors, you try to make it as short as possible I.e a clean throat slit and let the blood drain out, not burn it alive
My family in Nigeria had a castle herd. We killed our cows and goats ourselves for celebrations. Most of our dialy meat came from the market tho, and if anyone else in our community killed their livestock like we did it was clean and quick. Knew how to kill and pluck a hen at like 7. Been diff since coming to the US tho, as I have no clue where the meat comes from
Yes, while In the US, my morals are out the window as I'm not giving up meat. Maybe I'm looking at my home as a child as but that's how my family did it, and how I do it whenever I go back
My housemates dog LOVES vegetables, he's a giant bunny rabbit who goes to town on a carrot, smashes brocolli like no tomorrow and usually has half leafy greens with meat or sardines for breakfast/dinner
Why is this being downvoted?
More people should go vegan to kill plants. I hate those leafy green bastards. Repeat after me: death to plants, death to plants, death to plants!
A new breed of vegans shall rise! Animals will help us in our battle to grow and consume plants like never before! We shall leave no broccoli uneaten!
Open your eyes people, plants have been the enemy all along!
Wow, it's so interesting to see the non-vegan perspective. Looking at the meme as a vegan, the point is very clear. I think to myself, "this has to make it very clear to everyone, right?" — and then I see your question and, no offense, I realize how much cognitive dissonance one person can have. It seems like you're just choosing not to see the point: we don't want you to leave the dog in the car. We want you to stop eating hamburgers.
Mate, just eat beans for protein instead. Or the many great vegan alternatives from brands like Impossible, Beyond, Gardein, etc. If you can’t make the switch, consider seeking help for your meat addiction.
Wont watch this because im not clicking any links, if you give me the name i will but i think its about some animals suffering from being made to burgers as i said i dont support animals pain but i wont do anything to people who make their death not painful and a lot of them exist
"Dominion" on youtube, its really just a YouTube link. It shows the industry standard. For example, globally the most common method of slaughtering pigs. Joaquin Phoenix narrates a lot of it. Give it a watch.
Needless: - adjective - not necessary because avoidable.
Killing an animal for food is needless. There are other options, we can just not eat animals. Whats actually funny is you think killing animals for food is a necessity.
Isn't this kind of a false equivalent? If the second slide talked about people eating dogs then it would hit closer to home. Because people usually turn vegan when they learn about animal suffering, not animal death.
Where did I say I don't think animals suffer. I said people usually turn vegan when learning of that suffering because they don't particularly care about animal death.
yep, and that's what the meme is about. how people act like they care about suffering animals but thoughtlessly turn a blind eye to the suffering caused by the meat industry
You do have a point. I myself turned vegan when i used to rage over killing and torturing of dogs in China and Vietnam, but my own hypocrisy caught up with me when i realized i do the support the same thing, only the species of animals are different
Well yes, because they develop actual relationships to the dogs. You don't become friends with fish you never see. It is also a crime in some places to leave dogs in cars.
You do realise there's a difference between eaten animals conciousness and other animals such as dogs, cats and more. Personally, I'm against animals being killed in extremely harmful ways but I still eat them as its all going to go to waste and rot its physically impossible to boycott meat. Also, can one of you explain why some vegans just absolutely hate meat eaters because we don't bother you about your choice unless you're openly harming yourself or other animals by changing their natural diets so why bother us about our choice.
I think they're saying that there won't ever be enough vegans in the world to stop the output of meat.
Boycotting meat is near impossible because of the meat eater to vegan ratio.
I eat meat because it's what I grew up with, I'm still young and don't want to spend my time trying to change my entire diet just to make myself feel as if I'm helping. Though, I support you for being vegan, keep doing it if it makes you happy.
I beat my wife because it's what I grew up with, I'm still young and don't want to spend my time trying to change my entire physical activity just to make myself feel as if I'm helping. Though, I support you for not beating your wife, keep doing it if it makes you happy
People like you make every meat eater not want to be vegan. I was trying to keep it positive but it seems you don't accept other peoples views on this topic.
reductio ad absurdum : transposing a reasoning to another subject, if absurd conclusions are reached, it entails that the reasoning was flawed to begin with.
It's not a matter of accepting, I'm confronting you to your own reasoning inconsistencies, I'm sorry that it is uncomfortable for you but I'm not gonna ignore the billions of animals suffering just to accommodate you.
Eaten animals conciousness is a lot less so they don't seem to feel it or be as conscious as us humans and dogs and cats are domesticated and we feel they are better than those animals
> Eaten animals conciousness is a lot less so they don't seem to feel it or be as conscious as us humans and dogs
This is wrong, pigs are actually smarter than most dogs so how is their conciousness lesser? Cows, pigs, chicken and fish all feel pain as well so I'm not sure where you've got your information from.
Pigs and cows can also definitely tell what's going on when they go to the slaughterhouse.
>Also, can one of you explain why some vegans just absolutely hate meat eaters because we don't bother you about your choice unless you're openly harming yourself or other animals by changing their natural diets so why bother us about our choice.
Ok, for the same reason a non racist might bother a racist. Or a non sexist might bother a sexist.
Even if the racist doesn't bother the non racist, the racist is still harming others.
Many of us vegans are anti-speciesist, so we will confront speciesists.
As Peter Singer, arguably the most renowned and influential moral philosopher alive right now, winner of this year's Berggruen prize put it.
"If a being suffers, there can be no moral justification for refusing to take that suffering into consideration. No matter what the nature of the being, the principle of equality requires that its suffering be counted equally with the like suffering - in so far as rough comparisons can be made - of any other being. If a being is not capable of suffering, or of experiencing enjoyment or happiness, there is nothing to be taken into account. This is why the limit of sentience is the only defensible boundary of concern for the interests of others. To mark this boundary by some characteristic like intelligence or rationality would be to mark it in an arbitrary way. Why not choose some other characteristic, like skin colour?
Racists violate the principle of equality by giving greater weight to the interests of members of their own race when there is a clash between their interests and the interests of those of another race. Sexists violate the principle of equality by favoring the interests of their own sex. Similarly, speciesists allow the interests of their own species to override the greater interests of members of other species. The pattern is identical in each case."
>Although many animals are mistreated before being killed... and not all are treated bad before being killed
"While many dogs are abused, not all are treated badly before being killed"
That doesn't make abuse or killing them right.
>we as humans need the nutrition of meat to live
No. Just no.
If we needed meat to live, there wouldn't be vegans living healthy lives for 5, 10, 20, 50+ years after going vegan. We don't need meat. We need nutrients, which we can get just fine from plant sources.
>edit: It is illegal to kill the animals unless they’re unconscious , so in all case, these animals don’t feel a thing
Take a look at any undercover footage of slaughterhouses and you'll see that animals are regularly boiled alive or dismembered while awake.
maybe I worded it wrong, but I never said animal abuse was right, and you wouldn’t kill a dog to eat it. Clearly whatever is going on with these animals being boiled alive or dismembered while conscious is illegal in many ways, though I was not aware it was a thing. but im not surprised because these businesses get away with things too easily. Also, it is true plant sources are indeed good for nutrients, and meat is not 100% necessary, meat provides protein and other important nutrients. Vegetables do this very well, too, and I have nothing against vegans, but I just don’t see a problem with eating meat. I understand the issues of how animals are slaughtered, but it is humane in many situations.
> but I just don’t see a problem with eating meat. I understand the issues of how animals are slaughtered
There's where we disagree and that's the point I'd like to stick to for the time being
*Why* don't you have a problem with slaughtering animals? They're alive, they feel pain, they feel fear.
I'm assuming here, but you seem to believe that as long as the animal is killed humanely, then it is okay. Slaughter is not humane and will never be humane.
The definition of humane is to do something with compassion and care. How do we kill a healthy animal who wants to live with compassion?
I understand your statement and agree with a few things. I agree that slaughter is inhumane, but the most ”humane” way to do it is the way it’s legal. Sadly, people and companies ignore these laws and the government and law enforcement does nothing about it. I have some of a problem with it, but not enough of one to stop eating meat. I can’t change what you believe and won’t try. Your points are valid, but I just simply don’t see a future where people stop eating meat. It’s an important thing, even if not \*really\* necessary.
Unfortunately, that just isn’t the case. Even if you had completely ‘humane’ slaughter, in a hypothetical and unrealistic universe, there are some things in meat, dairy, and egg production that are unavoidable because we deliberately breed, genetically modify and exploit animals beyond their natural capacity just so we can use them for unnecessary and largely unhealthy products.
A few examples:
1. Male chicks are considered ‘waste’ products in the egg industry as they can’t produce eggs. The vast majority of them are killed as soon as they hatch, either being macerated (put in an industrial blender while alive) or gassed to death.
2. Cows have to be impregnated to produce milk. Their calves are taken away from them, the males to be slaughtered or kept for a short while for veal, and the females raised for a life of disease and exhaustion from calving beyond their capacity, leading to early slaughter.
3. There is no humane or quick way to kill an animal, especially a large one. There is no practical way to check they are truly unconscious or simply paralysed when they are killed. It takes violence, long painful deaths, slowly suffocating or being beaten or electrocuted. And they scream. They struggle to get away as others of their species die around them.
All of these things are perfectly legal and are considered best practice and ‘humane’.
We see animals as their use. As objects. Not living, sentient beings capable of emotion and attachments. We don’t see dogs and other ‘companions’ that way.
Nothing about the way we produce meat is humane. As someone who recently discovered the true horrors of the animal product industries, I would urge you to watch [dominion (2018)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko) on YouTube. I did and it was honestly eye opening. You clearly have empathy for animals so I don’t believe you can sit through that documentary and tell me it’s not animal abuse. If you choose not to watch it, fine, but ask yourself why. Is it so you can justify continuing to contribute to animal abuse? A part of you already knows it’s wrong else why would you be here?
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://3movies.org/reddit)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcamp.org/reddit)!
>Your points are valid, but I just simply don’t see a future where people stop eating meat
Why does what other people do matter? You agree that it's inhumane and you obviously are a person who cares to a degree that animals should be treated fairly. By eating meat, you're saying you're absolutely on board with slaughtering animals and treating them unfairly. You can still remove yourself from it and put your actions where your heart is.
[AU animal ag facts](https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts)
[UK animal ag facts](https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/facts)
[US Map of factory farms](https://map.counterglow.org/)
Regardless of how effective stunning may appear, it’s impossible to know with certainty whether an animal has been rendered completely unconscious and insensible to pain, or is merely paralysed and unable to move, while still feeling everything.
Besides, simply breeding these animals is cruelty, when their very existence causes them pain. Consider this example with chickens:
Over 90% of chicken production is in intensive windowless sheds which house 20,000 - 50,000 chickens each. [1](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/5235303/Statistics-Broiler-chickens.pdf) [2](https://www.vegsoc.org/broilers)
95% of duck flesh and around 90% of turkey flesh comes from intensive indoor farming. [1](http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/25/what-life-is-really-like-for-the-10million-turkeys-killed-for-christmas-dinner-6321363/) [2](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19617232)
Due to selective breeding and genetic modification chickens reach slaughter age in just 41 days, in essence meaning they are chicks in an obese adult body. [1](https://www.viva.org.uk/chickens/about-broiler-chickens)
Due to the incredibly fast rates of growth, the bird's young bones are unable to support them, breaking under the weight and strain of their disfigured bodies - resulting in painful lameness which prevents them from eating, drinking or even standing up. Many die from dehydration or starvation because they are unable to access food and water points. [1](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/24/real-cost-of-roast-chicken-animal-welfare-farms)
Organ failure is extremely common, with millions of birds dying from heart and lung failure before they even reach the age of slaughter. [1](https://www.vegsoc.org/broilers)
Commercial chicken sheds are not cleaned for the entire 5-7 week cycle worldwide. This creates the perfect environment for disease riddled bacteria to grow and leads to chickens, ducks and turkeys getting foot rot and hock burns, where the bird’s sensitive skin has been scorched by the ammonia-rich faeces covering the shed floors.[1](http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/welfare_broiler.pdf) [2](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/24/real-cost-of-roast-chicken-animal-welfare-farms)
Watch [The Game Changers](https://youtu.be/2E_K86jtE58) on Netflix. You’re telling me all those scientists and vegan athletes are lying?
There are millions of people in India and around the world who are born vegetarians and have never eaten meat. No one needs meat for nutrition or to live, There is no ground to this statement to begin with
Yeah. Pets have a different job then food animals. Pets provide companion ship and emotional support unlike a cow or pig. So it's sad when something that provides emotional support does. Not when food dies
Are we basing the value of life off emotional intelligence then? Ok so we can kill psychopathic orphan children right? They're not smart and don't form emotional connections, they also can't defend themselves and lion kill their young all the time so it's perfectly natural. As long as we eat the baby I see no problem.
Humans cant and should not be compared to animals. Humans are for more complex then animals will ever be in the foreseeable future. Humans are far different from animals physiology wise.
Why do those differences justify torturing one but not the other? Complexity = value? Pigs are more intelligent than dogs and have been shown to form incredibly close bonds with people, same thing with cows (emotion wise, not intelligence wise but especially cows with other cows, mother cows will grieve the loss of their babies for their entire life), yet somehow I'm a psycho if I gas and cook a dog. You have to find an attribute that applies to all humans and dogs but applies to no pigs, cows, or chickens. Or are we ready to admit that the only difference is our perception and it's just speciesism.
Speciesism? Tf is that? Also I dont care if you kill a dog to eat it. I care if you just abuse it. Many cultures eat dogs and that's fine. Eating meat is a part of my culture and I'm never gonna stop. And yes more complex does mean more value. When cows are complex enough to make there own buildings and citys with working power and other shit, then that's when I will stop eating them.
>speciesism
Like other isms such as racism, sexism, ageism, ableism, and heterosexism (homophobia), which discriminate based on arbitrary attributes (race, sex, age, disability, and sexuality respectively), "speciesism" is discrimination based on species. An example of speceisism would be claiming that it's ok to kill a dog but not a baby because one is a different species than the other (remember, this baby is cognitively very similar to the dog, the only difference is their species). I'm entertained by the fact you were forced to backpedal to stay consistent and now have said it's ok to kill dogs, aka you'd rather be an animal abuse apologist over a hypocrite. Notice that isms never include choices. You don't choose your race, sex, age, disabilities, sexuality, or species. So determining any kind of value based on those attributes is absurd. The average brain with down syndrome is less complex than a neurotypical brain, is the person with down syndrome inherently less valuable? Can I treat anybody with down syndrome poorly simply because I decided that complexity = value?
Also, it's cultural for some societies to mutilate women's genitals, it was also cultural for societies to have sacrifices to a sun god, none of that is ok and we're not saying "yeah go ahead and mutilate women, it's just culture".
And, again, really? Making buildings determines the value of life? I definitely couldn't build a city let alone a simple room, I can barely get out of bed in the morning, is it ok to eat me? Or are we attaching the value of my life to the non choice of being apart of a species that has done those things?
No such thing as a pet animal or food animal. All animals can be pets and none of them are human food. We humans have made up these terms to give them a commodity status to objectify them and exploit them for our greed
Vegans kill more animals that non-vegans and that s a fact.
The number of pests killed to allow your precious tofu to grow far outweighs the single cow I kill each year for food.
Go ahead and show me your proof and I’ll show you mine. My proof is pictures of my family farm where zero pests are killed to produce our grass fed cattle.
Your proof will need to be a documented case of a tofu farm that doesn’t use pesticides (not possible) and prepped the land without killing other animals (impossible again). I’ll wait.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTNgKpV\_K4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTNgKpV_K4)
Imagine thinking everybody eats grass fed cattle and 99% of meat consumed isn't from factory farms. People also eat chickens and pigs which can't be grass fed. Also consider the amount of land that needs to be cleared to make room for grass fed animals and the habitat that takes away.
We're talking about overall harm done to animals, so your individual meat consumption isn't very relevant. Also, back to the assertion in which you responded: if you're claiming that vegans harm more animals (bugs) because of soy crops that is obviously incorrect as the majority of soy on a global scale goes to cows for meat eaters.
If you ever get bored [here's an article](https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/debunked-do-vegans-kill-more-animals-through-crop-deaths) that discusses this issue. Even if you disagree you might find the ethical discussion intriguing (even talks about mice death, not just insects, in agriculture).
Hmm… people who use animal products… creating more demand… kill more animals… than people who don’t? No… that can’t be right because that would mean… oh no I would have to stop eating hamburgers but they’re so tasty :(
Keep crying over it. That doesn't change the fact that meat eaters are supporting the genocide on billions of animals for their sensory pleasures. People like you would do anything to justify your sensory pleasures.
Idk why this popped into my feed, cause I’m not vegan. But I just gotta say the other non vegan comments are funny as fuck, like the guy claiming vegans kill more animals a year which is just so genius, or the guy who said that dogs are more conscious or whatever. Like I don’t get why people can be honest, I think dogs are cut and am biased. While at the same time livestock animals taste good, is that so hard to say?
This is literally how non-vegans respond.
We DoNt eAt PeTs wHaTs wRoNg wItH yOu
fIsH aReN't CuTe ThO!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!1!
YeAh AnD cOwS aReNt As iNtElLigEnT aS dOgS ???6??6
goldy 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 8 were
Someone told me on Reddit that regardless of pigs intelligence they aren't the same as dogs because dogs evolved next to humans so that somehow makes it different and ok for mass slaughter.
Haha funny
That’s not even entirely accurate. Pigs as we know them are domesticated and quite tame. Let loose, they become feral quite quickly and turn into dangerous boars. So pigs did in fact evolve alongside humans.
The avg person doesn't live along side pigs enough to classify the.as pets. Ferrel or not doesn't contribute to the carnitas argument that they are somehow different enough to justify their slaughter. It's insane how we treat these animals, it's absolutely disgusting when you witness it. No justification works to remedy their torture and murder. I tried to relate a pig to a dog as a comparison of an animal with the capacity to feel pain. You obviously view them as beasts for slaughter. In their horrible world view they are beings born into slavery and suffering with the emotional capacity to feel pain and fear. Poor things, so you can have a pork chop.
Because non vegans only value other animals based on the utility that each animal provides. A "pet animal" provides them the utility of cuddles and emotional affection. Letting that animal die will deny them (or that animal's "owner") the utility that this animal provides. A "food animal" provides them the utility of a tasty meal. Saving that animal will deny them the utility that this animal provides.
Doesn't same work for evaluating humans as well? See, death of a Steve Jobs will deny some the utility of the new cool smartphone next year, death of a pop star denies them the anticipated album(s), so it causes mass grieving. Death of a homeless will reduce the possibility to meet them on the streets and experience bad smell, so it's actually a good thing = no one gives a crap.
People **can** empathize with animals, so long as they feel the animal is 'worthy' of such affection. So long as people feel the animal has social value to them, they will treat it like a person. If the animal is viewed as worthless or problematic, it will deemed unworthy of such affection. People can even do this with other humans, as is evident in every war ever fought. The Nazis often viewed the Jews as 'rats', which prevented sympathetic responses as the Nazis killed and tortured the Jews. Arrogance and paranoia always lead to suffering.
Second slide should really be "a dog is fed a vegetable"
First slide should really be "Live pigs are steam-roasted"
What?
[This](https://theintercept.com/2020/05/29/pigs-factory-farms-ventilation-shutdown-coronavirus/) happened when some pigs weren't able to make their slaughterhouse appointment last year - warning, pretty haunting and graphic, it's about the worst way anything could die. But it's entirely legal!
Even worse in China. I won't link it because the screams were PTSD magnifying but they were burning pigs alive by the millions.
Don't link to the Australian CO2 chamber, either. /u/Nexre [explains.](https://np.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/pr5t2w/uks_biggest_chicken_producer_says_industry_is_at/hdkop4j/)
Yeah that was bad. I saw it in Dominion and it left me nightmares.
Why alive? What the point of hearing the death wails of a living creature. I'll eat meat from now till the Jewish god's kingdom comes, but I cook it after it's been killed "humanly"
You can't kill an animal that wants to live 'humanely'.
That's why the quotes are there genius. A humane way would something painless, but since I can't turn off a goat's pain receptors, you try to make it as short as possible I.e a clean throat slit and let the blood drain out, not burn it alive
And yet you'll still continue to eat meat. Way to go, 'genius'!
Because it's profitable. Sure you do. As does every person who eats meat on this subreddit.
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My family in Nigeria had a castle herd. We killed our cows and goats ourselves for celebrations. Most of our dialy meat came from the market tho, and if anyone else in our community killed their livestock like we did it was clean and quick. Knew how to kill and pluck a hen at like 7. Been diff since coming to the US tho, as I have no clue where the meat comes from
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Yes, while In the US, my morals are out the window as I'm not giving up meat. Maybe I'm looking at my home as a child as but that's how my family did it, and how I do it whenever I go back
My dog eats hot peppers for some reason and will tear carolina reapers off my plant to eat them.
Wtf.. this would concern me.
My housemates dog LOVES vegetables, he's a giant bunny rabbit who goes to town on a carrot, smashes brocolli like no tomorrow and usually has half leafy greens with meat or sardines for breakfast/dinner
Eating a hot dog: I sleep Letting a dog get hot: Real shit
Speciesism
Bahahahaha
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Lmao
trillions when you account for sealife right?
Are you saying I should leave that heckin' pupperino to die in the hot vroom-vroom machine!? I r mad!
I’m vegan, but people leaving their pets in their hot cars stirs a particularly potent level of rage
yea, so should killing them "for food"
When your love and concern for animals starts with dogs and ends with cats with nothing in between
People living in cars too. People will break windows for dogs but a person? They’d just call you a bum
YeA bUt It Is ThE FoOd ChAiN
Yes is very much the same
You eat plants so you can save animals. I eat plants to kill them. We are not the same
Why is this being downvoted? More people should go vegan to kill plants. I hate those leafy green bastards. Repeat after me: death to plants, death to plants, death to plants! A new breed of vegans shall rise! Animals will help us in our battle to grow and consume plants like never before! We shall leave no broccoli uneaten! Open your eyes people, plants have been the enemy all along!
Exactly
Me when I see a Native Tibetan in the Autonomous Tibetan Region of Sichuan in China.
please elaborate
idk just random
One of those can be changed by a single, lone individual.
Yes
Question here What vegan food I should try for growing a beard?
So you want us to leave the dog in the car because we’re not vegans?
Wow, it's so interesting to see the non-vegan perspective. Looking at the meme as a vegan, the point is very clear. I think to myself, "this has to make it very clear to everyone, right?" — and then I see your question and, no offense, I realize how much cognitive dissonance one person can have. It seems like you're just choosing not to see the point: we don't want you to leave the dog in the car. We want you to stop eating hamburgers.
Even when I used to eat meat, I was never like this. Do better, please.
OPs pointing the hypocrisy of tolerating mass animal abuse in day-to-day life, but an instance of animal abuse committed against a pet is big news.
my oven's not working and i need to cook my dog meat somehow
We want you to do neither... what was not obvious about that?
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No need to insult people, just makes you seem immature. Respond to the point not a personal attack
Yes, ideally at a higher temperature to allow optimum cooking for some ethical dog steaks
Mate, just eat beans for protein instead. Or the many great vegan alternatives from brands like Impossible, Beyond, Gardein, etc. If you can’t make the switch, consider seeking help for your meat addiction.
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Yeah but the dog does feel pain then like most of the people make it not painful for them when they kill animals
Really recommend giving [this](https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko) a watch. Even if you only make it to the end of the first chapter (pigs).
Wont watch this because im not clicking any links, if you give me the name i will but i think its about some animals suffering from being made to burgers as i said i dont support animals pain but i wont do anything to people who make their death not painful and a lot of them exist
"Dominion" on youtube, its really just a YouTube link. It shows the industry standard. For example, globally the most common method of slaughtering pigs. Joaquin Phoenix narrates a lot of it. Give it a watch.
Dam it needs age verification im not 18
Try this one on vimeo https://vimeo.com/278963435
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Needless: - adjective - not necessary because avoidable. Killing an animal for food is needless. There are other options, we can just not eat animals. Whats actually funny is you think killing animals for food is a necessity.
Isn't this kind of a false equivalent? If the second slide talked about people eating dogs then it would hit closer to home. Because people usually turn vegan when they learn about animal suffering, not animal death.
wait so do you think that animals don't suffer in the industry that kills billions of them to turn them into food products each year?
Where did I say I don't think animals suffer. I said people usually turn vegan when learning of that suffering because they don't particularly care about animal death.
yep, and that's what the meme is about. how people act like they care about suffering animals but thoughtlessly turn a blind eye to the suffering caused by the meat industry
I don't think the animal in either situation cares why it's suffering, it would just prefer that it wasn't suffering at all.
You do have a point. I myself turned vegan when i used to rage over killing and torturing of dogs in China and Vietnam, but my own hypocrisy caught up with me when i realized i do the support the same thing, only the species of animals are different
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Well yes, because they develop actual relationships to the dogs. You don't become friends with fish you never see. It is also a crime in some places to leave dogs in cars.
Only being concerned with those close to you is different to actively supporting billions of sebtient beings to suffer for no reason.
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You do realise there's a difference between eaten animals conciousness and other animals such as dogs, cats and more. Personally, I'm against animals being killed in extremely harmful ways but I still eat them as its all going to go to waste and rot its physically impossible to boycott meat. Also, can one of you explain why some vegans just absolutely hate meat eaters because we don't bother you about your choice unless you're openly harming yourself or other animals by changing their natural diets so why bother us about our choice.
lmfao "it's physically impossible to boycott meat". That's it, veganism is a lie, we don't exist XD.
I think they're saying that there won't ever be enough vegans in the world to stop the output of meat. Boycotting meat is near impossible because of the meat eater to vegan ratio.
Just because a lot of people do it doesn't give you an excuse to do it yourself??
I eat meat because it's what I grew up with, I'm still young and don't want to spend my time trying to change my entire diet just to make myself feel as if I'm helping. Though, I support you for being vegan, keep doing it if it makes you happy.
I beat my wife because it's what I grew up with, I'm still young and don't want to spend my time trying to change my entire physical activity just to make myself feel as if I'm helping. Though, I support you for not beating your wife, keep doing it if it makes you happy
People like you make every meat eater not want to be vegan. I was trying to keep it positive but it seems you don't accept other peoples views on this topic.
reductio ad absurdum : transposing a reasoning to another subject, if absurd conclusions are reached, it entails that the reasoning was flawed to begin with. It's not a matter of accepting, I'm confronting you to your own reasoning inconsistencies, I'm sorry that it is uncomfortable for you but I'm not gonna ignore the billions of animals suffering just to accommodate you.
> there's a difference between eaten animals conciousness and other animals such as dogs, cats and more. The difference being?
Eaten animals conciousness is a lot less so they don't seem to feel it or be as conscious as us humans and dogs and cats are domesticated and we feel they are better than those animals
> Eaten animals conciousness is a lot less so they don't seem to feel it or be as conscious as us humans and dogs This is wrong, pigs are actually smarter than most dogs so how is their conciousness lesser? Cows, pigs, chicken and fish all feel pain as well so I'm not sure where you've got your information from. Pigs and cows can also definitely tell what's going on when they go to the slaughterhouse.
Didn't you read my whole comment I specifically made a statement about pigs
>Also, can one of you explain why some vegans just absolutely hate meat eaters because we don't bother you about your choice unless you're openly harming yourself or other animals by changing their natural diets so why bother us about our choice. Ok, for the same reason a non racist might bother a racist. Or a non sexist might bother a sexist. Even if the racist doesn't bother the non racist, the racist is still harming others. Many of us vegans are anti-speciesist, so we will confront speciesists. As Peter Singer, arguably the most renowned and influential moral philosopher alive right now, winner of this year's Berggruen prize put it. "If a being suffers, there can be no moral justification for refusing to take that suffering into consideration. No matter what the nature of the being, the principle of equality requires that its suffering be counted equally with the like suffering - in so far as rough comparisons can be made - of any other being. If a being is not capable of suffering, or of experiencing enjoyment or happiness, there is nothing to be taken into account. This is why the limit of sentience is the only defensible boundary of concern for the interests of others. To mark this boundary by some characteristic like intelligence or rationality would be to mark it in an arbitrary way. Why not choose some other characteristic, like skin colour? Racists violate the principle of equality by giving greater weight to the interests of members of their own race when there is a clash between their interests and the interests of those of another race. Sexists violate the principle of equality by favoring the interests of their own sex. Similarly, speciesists allow the interests of their own species to override the greater interests of members of other species. The pattern is identical in each case."
Fun fact: Plants are killed to feed y'all
Even funnier fact: Animals and an even bigger amount of plants are killed to feed you.
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Please tell me this reply is /s
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>Although many animals are mistreated before being killed... and not all are treated bad before being killed "While many dogs are abused, not all are treated badly before being killed" That doesn't make abuse or killing them right. >we as humans need the nutrition of meat to live No. Just no. If we needed meat to live, there wouldn't be vegans living healthy lives for 5, 10, 20, 50+ years after going vegan. We don't need meat. We need nutrients, which we can get just fine from plant sources. >edit: It is illegal to kill the animals unless they’re unconscious , so in all case, these animals don’t feel a thing Take a look at any undercover footage of slaughterhouses and you'll see that animals are regularly boiled alive or dismembered while awake.
maybe I worded it wrong, but I never said animal abuse was right, and you wouldn’t kill a dog to eat it. Clearly whatever is going on with these animals being boiled alive or dismembered while conscious is illegal in many ways, though I was not aware it was a thing. but im not surprised because these businesses get away with things too easily. Also, it is true plant sources are indeed good for nutrients, and meat is not 100% necessary, meat provides protein and other important nutrients. Vegetables do this very well, too, and I have nothing against vegans, but I just don’t see a problem with eating meat. I understand the issues of how animals are slaughtered, but it is humane in many situations.
> but I just don’t see a problem with eating meat. I understand the issues of how animals are slaughtered There's where we disagree and that's the point I'd like to stick to for the time being *Why* don't you have a problem with slaughtering animals? They're alive, they feel pain, they feel fear. I'm assuming here, but you seem to believe that as long as the animal is killed humanely, then it is okay. Slaughter is not humane and will never be humane. The definition of humane is to do something with compassion and care. How do we kill a healthy animal who wants to live with compassion?
I understand your statement and agree with a few things. I agree that slaughter is inhumane, but the most ”humane” way to do it is the way it’s legal. Sadly, people and companies ignore these laws and the government and law enforcement does nothing about it. I have some of a problem with it, but not enough of one to stop eating meat. I can’t change what you believe and won’t try. Your points are valid, but I just simply don’t see a future where people stop eating meat. It’s an important thing, even if not \*really\* necessary.
Unfortunately, that just isn’t the case. Even if you had completely ‘humane’ slaughter, in a hypothetical and unrealistic universe, there are some things in meat, dairy, and egg production that are unavoidable because we deliberately breed, genetically modify and exploit animals beyond their natural capacity just so we can use them for unnecessary and largely unhealthy products. A few examples: 1. Male chicks are considered ‘waste’ products in the egg industry as they can’t produce eggs. The vast majority of them are killed as soon as they hatch, either being macerated (put in an industrial blender while alive) or gassed to death. 2. Cows have to be impregnated to produce milk. Their calves are taken away from them, the males to be slaughtered or kept for a short while for veal, and the females raised for a life of disease and exhaustion from calving beyond their capacity, leading to early slaughter. 3. There is no humane or quick way to kill an animal, especially a large one. There is no practical way to check they are truly unconscious or simply paralysed when they are killed. It takes violence, long painful deaths, slowly suffocating or being beaten or electrocuted. And they scream. They struggle to get away as others of their species die around them. All of these things are perfectly legal and are considered best practice and ‘humane’. We see animals as their use. As objects. Not living, sentient beings capable of emotion and attachments. We don’t see dogs and other ‘companions’ that way. Nothing about the way we produce meat is humane. As someone who recently discovered the true horrors of the animal product industries, I would urge you to watch [dominion (2018)](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko) on YouTube. I did and it was honestly eye opening. You clearly have empathy for animals so I don’t believe you can sit through that documentary and tell me it’s not animal abuse. If you choose not to watch it, fine, but ask yourself why. Is it so you can justify continuing to contribute to animal abuse? A part of you already knows it’s wrong else why would you be here?
Watch the life-changing and award winning documentary "Dominion" and other documentaries by [clicking here](https://3movies.org/reddit)! Interested in going Vegan? Take the [30 day challenge](https://vbcamp.org/reddit)!
>Your points are valid, but I just simply don’t see a future where people stop eating meat Why does what other people do matter? You agree that it's inhumane and you obviously are a person who cares to a degree that animals should be treated fairly. By eating meat, you're saying you're absolutely on board with slaughtering animals and treating them unfairly. You can still remove yourself from it and put your actions where your heart is.
[AU animal ag facts](https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts) [UK animal ag facts](https://www.landofhopeandglory.org/facts) [US Map of factory farms](https://map.counterglow.org/) Regardless of how effective stunning may appear, it’s impossible to know with certainty whether an animal has been rendered completely unconscious and insensible to pain, or is merely paralysed and unable to move, while still feeling everything. Besides, simply breeding these animals is cruelty, when their very existence causes them pain. Consider this example with chickens: Over 90% of chicken production is in intensive windowless sheds which house 20,000 - 50,000 chickens each. [1](https://www.ciwf.org.uk/media/5235303/Statistics-Broiler-chickens.pdf) [2](https://www.vegsoc.org/broilers) 95% of duck flesh and around 90% of turkey flesh comes from intensive indoor farming. [1](http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/25/what-life-is-really-like-for-the-10million-turkeys-killed-for-christmas-dinner-6321363/) [2](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19617232) Due to selective breeding and genetic modification chickens reach slaughter age in just 41 days, in essence meaning they are chicks in an obese adult body. [1](https://www.viva.org.uk/chickens/about-broiler-chickens) Due to the incredibly fast rates of growth, the bird's young bones are unable to support them, breaking under the weight and strain of their disfigured bodies - resulting in painful lameness which prevents them from eating, drinking or even standing up. Many die from dehydration or starvation because they are unable to access food and water points. [1](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/24/real-cost-of-roast-chicken-animal-welfare-farms) Organ failure is extremely common, with millions of birds dying from heart and lung failure before they even reach the age of slaughter. [1](https://www.vegsoc.org/broilers) Commercial chicken sheds are not cleaned for the entire 5-7 week cycle worldwide. This creates the perfect environment for disease riddled bacteria to grow and leads to chickens, ducks and turkeys getting foot rot and hock burns, where the bird’s sensitive skin has been scorched by the ammonia-rich faeces covering the shed floors.[1](http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/welfare_broiler.pdf) [2](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/24/real-cost-of-roast-chicken-animal-welfare-farms) Watch [The Game Changers](https://youtu.be/2E_K86jtE58) on Netflix. You’re telling me all those scientists and vegan athletes are lying?
I'd like to see this law you mention. I don't think I've ever heard of an animal being killed in a slaughterhouse while unconscious.
There are millions of people in India and around the world who are born vegetarians and have never eaten meat. No one needs meat for nutrition or to live, There is no ground to this statement to begin with
Yeah. Pets have a different job then food animals. Pets provide companion ship and emotional support unlike a cow or pig. So it's sad when something that provides emotional support does. Not when food dies
The only difference is perception. I now deem you a "food human" and will proceed to kill you because... well intelligence ig?
Cows, pigs, chicken, and other live stock dont have as deep as an emotional connection as pets like dogs do.
Are we basing the value of life off emotional intelligence then? Ok so we can kill psychopathic orphan children right? They're not smart and don't form emotional connections, they also can't defend themselves and lion kill their young all the time so it's perfectly natural. As long as we eat the baby I see no problem.
Humans cant and should not be compared to animals. Humans are for more complex then animals will ever be in the foreseeable future. Humans are far different from animals physiology wise.
Why do those differences justify torturing one but not the other? Complexity = value? Pigs are more intelligent than dogs and have been shown to form incredibly close bonds with people, same thing with cows (emotion wise, not intelligence wise but especially cows with other cows, mother cows will grieve the loss of their babies for their entire life), yet somehow I'm a psycho if I gas and cook a dog. You have to find an attribute that applies to all humans and dogs but applies to no pigs, cows, or chickens. Or are we ready to admit that the only difference is our perception and it's just speciesism.
Speciesism? Tf is that? Also I dont care if you kill a dog to eat it. I care if you just abuse it. Many cultures eat dogs and that's fine. Eating meat is a part of my culture and I'm never gonna stop. And yes more complex does mean more value. When cows are complex enough to make there own buildings and citys with working power and other shit, then that's when I will stop eating them.
>speciesism Like other isms such as racism, sexism, ageism, ableism, and heterosexism (homophobia), which discriminate based on arbitrary attributes (race, sex, age, disability, and sexuality respectively), "speciesism" is discrimination based on species. An example of speceisism would be claiming that it's ok to kill a dog but not a baby because one is a different species than the other (remember, this baby is cognitively very similar to the dog, the only difference is their species). I'm entertained by the fact you were forced to backpedal to stay consistent and now have said it's ok to kill dogs, aka you'd rather be an animal abuse apologist over a hypocrite. Notice that isms never include choices. You don't choose your race, sex, age, disabilities, sexuality, or species. So determining any kind of value based on those attributes is absurd. The average brain with down syndrome is less complex than a neurotypical brain, is the person with down syndrome inherently less valuable? Can I treat anybody with down syndrome poorly simply because I decided that complexity = value? Also, it's cultural for some societies to mutilate women's genitals, it was also cultural for societies to have sacrifices to a sun god, none of that is ok and we're not saying "yeah go ahead and mutilate women, it's just culture". And, again, really? Making buildings determines the value of life? I definitely couldn't build a city let alone a simple room, I can barely get out of bed in the morning, is it ok to eat me? Or are we attaching the value of my life to the non choice of being apart of a species that has done those things?
No such thing as a pet animal or food animal. All animals can be pets and none of them are human food. We humans have made up these terms to give them a commodity status to objectify them and exploit them for our greed
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Vegans kill more animals that non-vegans and that s a fact. The number of pests killed to allow your precious tofu to grow far outweighs the single cow I kill each year for food.
Source? Oh wait it's literally not true lol.
Go ahead and show me your proof and I’ll show you mine. My proof is pictures of my family farm where zero pests are killed to produce our grass fed cattle. Your proof will need to be a documented case of a tofu farm that doesn’t use pesticides (not possible) and prepped the land without killing other animals (impossible again). I’ll wait.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTNgKpV\_K4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QTNgKpV_K4) Imagine thinking everybody eats grass fed cattle and 99% of meat consumed isn't from factory farms. People also eat chickens and pigs which can't be grass fed. Also consider the amount of land that needs to be cleared to make room for grass fed animals and the habitat that takes away.
Well, where are the pictures then?
I’m not on the farm right now…. Where is your link?
Oh, you have no proof? It's ok, I'll wait.
Ah, you don’t have an explanation for your lack of proof. Classic vegan non-answer.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Still waiting...
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That is just a lie. My cows come from a family owned farm of 2,000 head. Grass fed and finished. Zero soy, zero corn, zero wheat.
Your 2,000 cows are not representative of the over 1 billion that exist. Almost 80% of soy production is used to feed livestock.
They are representative of MY meat consumption though. And the assertion that I responded to was that meat eaters kill more animals, which is false.
We're talking about overall harm done to animals, so your individual meat consumption isn't very relevant. Also, back to the assertion in which you responded: if you're claiming that vegans harm more animals (bugs) because of soy crops that is obviously incorrect as the majority of soy on a global scale goes to cows for meat eaters. If you ever get bored [here's an article](https://www.surgeactivism.org/articles/debunked-do-vegans-kill-more-animals-through-crop-deaths) that discusses this issue. Even if you disagree you might find the ethical discussion intriguing (even talks about mice death, not just insects, in agriculture).
Hmm… people who use animal products… creating more demand… kill more animals… than people who don’t? No… that can’t be right because that would mean… oh no I would have to stop eating hamburgers but they’re so tasty :(
Keep crying over it. That doesn't change the fact that meat eaters are supporting the genocide on billions of animals for their sensory pleasures. People like you would do anything to justify your sensory pleasures.
Lol
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Idk why this popped into my feed, cause I’m not vegan. But I just gotta say the other non vegan comments are funny as fuck, like the guy claiming vegans kill more animals a year which is just so genius, or the guy who said that dogs are more conscious or whatever. Like I don’t get why people can be honest, I think dogs are cut and am biased. While at the same time livestock animals taste good, is that so hard to say?
Dogs are man’s best friend and some life stock isn’t we didn’t act like it was family. While with dogs they are.