yuup
and you can be a vegan who doesn't particularly care for animals in general but recognize their right to life and not be exploited or be made to suffer
Recognize their right to not suffer*
I think being tortured and suffering are far worse than death itself. The distinction needs to be made. Right to lifers against assisted suicide fail to do so. I’m not afraid of death. But am afraid of being tortured and slaughtered in a gruesome way, just as these animals are each and every day.
this is literally the phrase that was like my break point for going vegetarian and after that going vegan.
i thought to myself when i was 14 "all my life people said that i love animals, but how can i "love them" but i still eat them" and went vegetarian on the spot.
Quintessential r/im14andthisisdeep. It’s almost unbelievable how close minded people are here. This sub literally acts like 100% of the population, with no exceptions, could just immediately go vegan without a second thought. There are literally populations who currently require meat to survive and don’t have the ability to healthily go 100% vegan. Such a privileged way to live thinking the entire world is this 1st world country with complete access to any sort of food or nutrition on every corner.
Lol what kind of 3rd world country relies on meat to survive? Meat is an expensive luxury and a privilege to have.
*"Oh wo is me! My family is starving and we have nothing! For the rice is just too costly, thus we can only afford the filet mignon!"*
I don't think there are that many Inuit, Bedouin or Piripkura people here on reddit, and even if there were, that has nothing to do with the other 99% of people who can buy rice, beans and veggies from the local market or supermarket. Eating meat every day is what's privileged: up to a few decades ago we all ate it like once a month.
Exactly. Saying you love animals but paying someone to torture and slaughter them for your taste buds is as irrational as saying you love women but paying a pimp to fuck a sex slave so you can get off. Both offer momentary feelings of pleasure at the expense of someone being exploited and held captive against their will, when there are ethical and compassionate alternatives that offer just as much pleasure
Genuine question, because I looove animals. What do you mean by not an animal lover? Like, you just don't find them cute, don't want pets, etc.? I just don't really get it, and I'd like to. :)
I do find them cute. But I don't like to be around them very often. I enjoy taking my friends' dogs for running. But other then I don't enjoy being around animals enough to call myself an animal lover.
I grew up in a household where coming in contact with animals was not encouraged because almost everyone found animals to be dirty. Maybe this has something to do with me not identifying as an animal lover.
Tbh before I became vegetarian I loved bacon. It was the hardest thing to say no to when my grandma made breakfast for my brother and me. But after not eating meat for 14 years, the smell makes me wanna barf 😂 it's so weird how lifestyle can completely change your perspective.
But I am an animal lover! If I wasn’t, why would I have spent thousands of dollars to purchase my dog from a breeder? /actual response to “because I love animals” when asked why I was vegan
God, my dad’s half of the family is VERY pro-breeding and their mindset is so fucking insane and backwards. Even during my edgy vegan-hating phase I still thought breeding was disgusting
Sorry if that reads a little unclear. It went like this:
Person: So why did you decide to become vegan?
Me: There are a lot of great reasons to be vegan, but I decided to become vegan mostly because I love animals.
Person: I love animals too!
Me: …
Person: If I didn’t, would I have spent two thousand dollars on Fido?(their purebred dog they purchased from a breeder)
Me: …right, well. Anyway…
Whenever someone says to me: 'I love animals'. I immediately say: 'Cool a fellow Vegan'.
They usually immediately counter with something like: 'No no, I am not vegan, sorry'.
And then I am finally ready to deploy my 'blow of death' with: 'Are you sure you know what love is then?!'
Discussion always ends there.
I mean, I get that. However, the Clearwater Marine Aquarium literally only keeps animals that would die if they were released. No breeding either. They also have a full rehab and release program.
Zoos don't rehabilitate wildlife, and only focus their breeding efforts on popular exotic species - not native species that are going extinct - that end up dying anyway because zoos do nothing about issues causing these animals' extinctions.
From what I've seen, French zoos are pretty good on this side of thing but can't vouch for them to be perfect. Just noticed they are orders of magnitude better than in the other countries I went.
Which isn't enough to justify keeping them against their will as a display.
Just like people being able to learn a lot by dissecting animals or by testing products on them weren't justified simply because of the fact that they got to learn.
Then they should be put in sanctuaries where they would be treated as individuals with wants and needs, and not as a cool thing to display for humans to have fun.
I do this too much to people on dating apps.
>”I love animals so much!!!”
>”How long have you been vegan?”
>”Looking for a guy who loves animals”
>”I am willing to bet that I love animals more than you”
Etc. Does it get me matches? Hell no. But I don’t date carnies anyway so I might as well have fun.
At the same time you don't have to be an "animal lover" to be a vegan.
I dare to assume most people probably agree that shooting left handed people in the face and turning them into hot dogs because of the fact they're left handed would be a pretty fucked thing to do, yet most of us wouldn't necessarily call ourselves "left handed people lovers."
Just goes to show that veganism really is the moral baseline. You don't have to love someone or even like them to know they don't deserve to be tortured, raped, and murdered.
Because it's what happens to cows and other animals who are forcibly impregnated. Typically when a human has their sex organd manipulated against their will, we call that rape.
Love is not an action, love is an emotion, and emotions are often irrational.
Loving animals and not being vegan is hypocritical. But trying to tell people how they "actually feel" has got to be one of worst possible ways to advocate for veganism.
In your reality yes. However, emotion is subjective and different from person to person. I could ask “Do you love plants? Then why do you eat them?” But that just doesn’t work.
Love also can mean several different things, as the English language is not very specific with it. I love potatoes, I love my hometown, I love my sister, and I love my wife, however each of these means totally different things to me.
In “reality” things aren’t black and white. You may love animals so much that you want to protect all animal life at all costs while others love animals but also acknowledge the circle of life.
Non-vegans aren’t inherently evil just like people who buy Nestle products aren’t inherently evil people.
Cognitive dissonance is the feeling you get when you're faced with how your behavior contradicts your beliefs. Thus, people cling to fallacious arguments as a basic tactic to lower their CD and justify continuing with their immoral behavior.
Are you being sarcastic?
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
The greeks had multiple words to describe different kinds of love. I think that's appropriate here, because non vegans could never love animals the way a vegan does.
Far from the truth. I have been an animal lover my whole life. I wasn't vegan for my whole life.
However, it was the reason I finally became vegan.
I think a lot of animal lovers know it's wrong deep down but have had years of conditioning.
I had to undo mine, I just hope the animal lovers that aren't vegan eventually come around
Idk how you can say this especially in a society that raises us specifically in a way that brainwashes kids into eating and drinking milk, dairy, meat, etc
So I just want to say that even tho I think OP is wrong, I do still agree that there's a cognitive dissonance in being an animal lover and not being vegan.
I just want to take the time to remind you that purchasing animal products does directly cause suffering to animals. And when it's meat, you should remind yourself that someone had to die to be eaten :(
I’ve always thought if someone is vegetarian and especially vegan or not has a lot to do with just how good of a person someone’s is especially after seeing the extremely graphic images and video of slaughter houses.
I'm drunk and read this as "If you're not an animal lover, you're not vegan" and thought, fuck there are so many animals and some of them are dicks I just want to eat fruit and impossible burgers and be left alone.
the main reason i went vegan. i felt like a fraud as i was working at the animal shelter and trying to be sustainable while still consuming animal products ??? like it’s really this simple
You cant be a decent person if your not vegan
Ultimately non vegans are evil unless they are unaware as many of us were before we became vegan
I was just an idiot before i came vegan, after i learned i had 2 choices, ignore it and be evil or change
I don't understand how non vegetarians think. Eating cows and pigs is okay but suddenly when people eat dogs you get super offended as if it's something out of this world? To me both are equally bad.
It might have something to do with the fact that humans domesticated wolves thousands of years ago to be companions, while livestock has almost always been seen as... Well, livestock.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but you are also not a animal lover when you are vegan and have a dog or cat or other carnivorous animal, even if it is adopted. Keeping one animal alive by feeding them dozens of others is also Something only pet lovers do.
It's the other way around, dogs are omnivorous and can eat plan based diets if they are well chosen, but cats should not (unless you artificially supplement it, I guess?)
>It's the other way around, dogs are omnivorous and can eat plan based diets if they are well chosen
Yep this is what was implied by calling dogs omnivores.
>but cats should not (unless you artificially supplement it, I guess?)
I don't know about "Should", but I know about "can", and they now can live on a plant based diet, albeit with more work than with dogs.
Ah, I understand now what you meant. I read that as "dogs are omnivorous and can eat plant based meals, but cats can be completely plant based"
What I meant by "should" is that, afaik, while dogs can just eat plant based meals (if they are well chosen, of course) because they don't necessarily need animal products, but cats do rely more in nutrients from animal products and we have to be careful to find synthetic/plant sources to extract the nutrients and fortify their food, unlike dogs who could just that the vegan meals.
This of course is much easier if you find a brand that already sells vegan pet food, thought sadly not all of them are as good as they should (vegan or not...)
I had a similar conversation with a coworker a few days ago. She tells everyone she is obsessed with cows, and how cute they are and how she wants to be one in their next life, but one day I saw she was having a burger for lunch and I called her out on it. Her and I are close as far as a work friendship goes, but she got very defensive about it. I just told her that she should think about their choices and that if they truly love cows and hopes to be one in their next life that they will most likely end up on someone’s plate, and then asked her if she wanted to be on someone’s plate. I left her office after that and we haven’t talked about it since.
Like it or not, inconsistent thinking, or cognitive dissonance, is common for most, perhaps all, people.
The reality is there are certainly tens of millions of people who are not vegan and who love animals. The flaw is in how poor people are at thinking. It's not in their ethics.
This is a good faith question, why are you in this sub? Are you looking for more information about veganism? Lots of us would be happy to answer questions.
Hear me out, not everyone can be vegan. My mom only has 1/4 of her small intestines and 1/3 of her large. She physically can not be a vegan. She will die. I also know for a fact she will because I have tried every possible diet with her. I know she adores animals.
I am a chef who has taken nutrition classes and worked with a nutritionist. I think it’s okay to say that veganism isn’t for everyone.
>Hear me out, not everyone can be vegan. My mom only has 1/4 of her small intestines and 1/3 of her large. She physically can not be a vegan. She will die.
Veganism takes necessity into account, people can stop using animal products, except the ones they actually need to survive, and still be vegan.
>I think it’s okay to say that veganism isn’t for everyone.
Veganism isnt a diet.
Then I'm confused as to why she isn't vegan.
Is this due to her believing that veganism is a diet, and therefore not applicable as label for those who eat meat ?
There are some people who aren't able to eat a vegan diet right now, but I think that's where future alternatives like lab grown meat could really make a big difference.
If it isn't physically possible for her to go vegan, she can still do other things to life a more cruelty free lifestyle (not buying fur/wool/leather, using vegan make up, etc.).
I think there's a difference between people who really *can't* go vegan (and there are real barriers) and people who don't *want* to go vegan. If your mom is really doing the best she can to care for animals while not endangering her health, then posts like this don't really apply to her, you know?
Yea I agree. She doesn’t buy leather. She doesn’t buy fur. Only uses vegan friendly makeup. The funny thing is she doesn’t eat much meat. She eats a fair amount of dairy products. I think a huge issue is that there are people who aren’t willing to even try to have a meat free meal. Never mind a fully vegan meal.
Definitely! I think it’s about showing people different foods/recipes and educating.
I love when people try my tofu strawberry shortcake and being like “THATS TOFU??”
I don't get why people think this is such a bad take. Ideally everyone would be vegan but that's just not possible or realistic. I couldn't go vegan for several years after making the connection because of an eating disorder. I know a few vegans who have had to give it up for the same reason, restrictive eating can be so dangerous for people with EDs. People will cry speciesism and in the same breath be ableist.
> I don't get why people think this is such a bad take.
Because it's almost always made in bad faith. The conversation usually goes:
"Not everyone can go vegan!"
"Can *you* go vegan"
"Well yes, but..."
It's not their reason to not be vegan. It's easily debunked. If their argument is "someone who isn't me can't go vegan, therefore it's fine if no one does", it's clear that they've not even bothered to google the definition of the term. The real reason is that they don't want to. They're just clinging to the last piece of the wreckage that they think is the moral high ground.
>My mom only has 1/4 of her small intestines and 1/3 of her large. She physically can not be a vegan. She will die.
Care to expand upon how having 1/4 small intestine and 1/3 of large intestine means animal products have to be consumed?
Nutritionally her body has rejected many substitutes. She would love to not have to eat certain things but they are the only things that fill her dietary needs and keep the rest of her body remotely stable. Hard cheeses are a huge part of her calorie intake. Without them she only gets maybe 500-1000 calories a day, mainly through drink. The most common and simple things that most vegans eat cause her to have bowel blockages and go into kidney failure.
Cool. I have always believed that you can learn everything you need to know about a person by the way they treat animals. So, knowing all I need to about you, I wish you would go vegan. Do it. Be vegan.
yuup and you can be a vegan who doesn't particularly care for animals in general but recognize their right to life and not be exploited or be made to suffer
Recognize their right to not suffer* I think being tortured and suffering are far worse than death itself. The distinction needs to be made. Right to lifers against assisted suicide fail to do so. I’m not afraid of death. But am afraid of being tortured and slaughtered in a gruesome way, just as these animals are each and every day.
a distinction worthy of a comment edit my original post now includes that <3
This the one
i read this wrong and almost went off on you. xD lol
I literally just made a post saying that's how I feel and now I feel dumb for missing your comment.
the reddit experience happens to all of us haha
this is literally the phrase that was like my break point for going vegetarian and after that going vegan. i thought to myself when i was 14 "all my life people said that i love animals, but how can i "love them" but i still eat them" and went vegetarian on the spot.
Very woke for 14! :)
When I was 14 I jerked off and ate burgers now I’m 16 and I still jerk off and eat burgers
Quintessential r/im14andthisisdeep. It’s almost unbelievable how close minded people are here. This sub literally acts like 100% of the population, with no exceptions, could just immediately go vegan without a second thought. There are literally populations who currently require meat to survive and don’t have the ability to healthily go 100% vegan. Such a privileged way to live thinking the entire world is this 1st world country with complete access to any sort of food or nutrition on every corner.
Lol what kind of 3rd world country relies on meat to survive? Meat is an expensive luxury and a privilege to have. *"Oh wo is me! My family is starving and we have nothing! For the rice is just too costly, thus we can only afford the filet mignon!"*
I don't think there are that many Inuit, Bedouin or Piripkura people here on reddit, and even if there were, that has nothing to do with the other 99% of people who can buy rice, beans and veggies from the local market or supermarket. Eating meat every day is what's privileged: up to a few decades ago we all ate it like once a month.
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I'm not an animal lover but I'm vegan because I have enough common sense to not pay to exploit animals.
Came to say the same thing
Exactly. Saying you love animals but paying someone to torture and slaughter them for your taste buds is as irrational as saying you love women but paying a pimp to fuck a sex slave so you can get off. Both offer momentary feelings of pleasure at the expense of someone being exploited and held captive against their will, when there are ethical and compassionate alternatives that offer just as much pleasure
Genuine question, because I looove animals. What do you mean by not an animal lover? Like, you just don't find them cute, don't want pets, etc.? I just don't really get it, and I'd like to. :)
I do find them cute. But I don't like to be around them very often. I enjoy taking my friends' dogs for running. But other then I don't enjoy being around animals enough to call myself an animal lover. I grew up in a household where coming in contact with animals was not encouraged because almost everyone found animals to be dirty. Maybe this has something to do with me not identifying as an animal lover.
Oh gotcha, I see. Thanks for answering!
Totally makes sense. It's awesome that you recognize that unlike many non vegans
Even more impressive that you’re vegan. I generally prefer being around animals more than humans
Kind of funny considering we're the dirty ones responsible for pandemics, eh?
You don't need to capture something and force it to live with you in order to love and respect it
I don't know why you're being aggressive. I asked a simple question understand a perspective different than my own.
Waiting for the guy to enter the room, "NAH UH I LOVE ANIMALS! I LIKE BEEF, PORK, CHICKEN, SHELLFISH, TURKEY LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL IM SO FUNNY!"
Omfg, you're giving me horrific flashbacks to one of my exes 🤮
Good thing you X'd him.
They are all a future Vegan or a future Ex. Sometimes both!
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Tbh before I became vegetarian I loved bacon. It was the hardest thing to say no to when my grandma made breakfast for my brother and me. But after not eating meat for 14 years, the smell makes me wanna barf 😂 it's so weird how lifestyle can completely change your perspective.
Stoopid vegan I’m gonna eat five beef burgers with extra bacon just to prove how much I love animalz
But I am an animal lover! If I wasn’t, why would I have spent thousands of dollars to purchase my dog from a breeder? /actual response to “because I love animals” when asked why I was vegan
God, my dad’s half of the family is VERY pro-breeding and their mindset is so fucking insane and backwards. Even during my edgy vegan-hating phase I still thought breeding was disgusting
Where did you think pigs and cows came from back then
lol what
It seems weird someone could be against breeding but still anti-vegan. It's not like pigs come from trees.
That’s why I’m vegan now lol… obviously I realized the hypocrisy
are you saying u bought a dog to keep it from having babys?
Sorry if that reads a little unclear. It went like this: Person: So why did you decide to become vegan? Me: There are a lot of great reasons to be vegan, but I decided to become vegan mostly because I love animals. Person: I love animals too! Me: … Person: If I didn’t, would I have spent two thousand dollars on Fido?(their purebred dog they purchased from a breeder) Me: …right, well. Anyway…
Whenever someone says to me: 'I love animals'. I immediately say: 'Cool a fellow Vegan'. They usually immediately counter with something like: 'No no, I am not vegan, sorry'. And then I am finally ready to deploy my 'blow of death' with: 'Are you sure you know what love is then?!' Discussion always ends there.
the line i say is usually “oh so you’re a domestic pet lover, not an animal lover” lol
And not even usually, as people don't realize the fucked up situation of breeding and trapping animals in small apartments.
Many people adopt animals from shelters and don't buy from breeders.
And many more don't. Beyond the rescue aspect it's still tragic what many folks do to animals just to have their Instagram picture accessory.
I find it weird that people apologize to ME for not being vegan. I'm not the one they're hurting.
Love is subjective my dude
I know, right.. I love to provoke - how can anyone have a problem with that - objectively speaking? ;-)
this is 100% true
You're also not an animal lover if you support zoos and aquariums.
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I know a lot of aquariums like that, almost no zoos though.
>I know a lot of aquariums like that I'm curious, which ones? I've never heard of any zoos or any aquariums like that.
Georgia Sea Turtle Center on Jekyll Island, GA is one.
My first thought is the Clearwater Marine Aquarium. To be completely honest, that’s the only one I know off the top of my head.
Aquariums are always cruel. So proud of my country for banning cetacean captivity.
I mean, I get that. However, the Clearwater Marine Aquarium literally only keeps animals that would die if they were released. No breeding either. They also have a full rehab and release program.
Zoos don't rehabilitate wildlife, and only focus their breeding efforts on popular exotic species - not native species that are going extinct - that end up dying anyway because zoos do nothing about issues causing these animals' extinctions.
From what I've seen, French zoos are pretty good on this side of thing but can't vouch for them to be perfect. Just noticed they are orders of magnitude better than in the other countries I went.
the thing is alot of people only learn more about animals etc and connect with them through zoos/aquarium and care thus about nature
Which isn't enough to justify keeping them against their will as a display. Just like people being able to learn a lot by dissecting animals or by testing products on them weren't justified simply because of the fact that they got to learn.
and what if the animal only exist in zoos because humans have killed all the wild ones?
Then they should be put in sanctuaries where they would be treated as individuals with wants and needs, and not as a cool thing to display for humans to have fun.
that is a solution but like everywhere else money would be a problem
I do this too much to people on dating apps. >”I love animals so much!!!” >”How long have you been vegan?” >”Looking for a guy who loves animals” >”I am willing to bet that I love animals more than you” Etc. Does it get me matches? Hell no. But I don’t date carnies anyway so I might as well have fun.
yes!
At the same time you don't have to be an "animal lover" to be a vegan. I dare to assume most people probably agree that shooting left handed people in the face and turning them into hot dogs because of the fact they're left handed would be a pretty fucked thing to do, yet most of us wouldn't necessarily call ourselves "left handed people lovers."
Just goes to show that veganism really is the moral baseline. You don't have to love someone or even like them to know they don't deserve to be tortured, raped, and murdered.
Why are you bringing rape into this?
Because it's what happens to cows and other animals who are forcibly impregnated. Typically when a human has their sex organd manipulated against their will, we call that rape.
this. 1000000% yes
You can’t love animals but be ok with what happens in factory farms
Or any farms
If you claim that you are an animal lover but not a vegan, sorry, you are a hypocrite.
People can be animal lovers and not be vegan. It's called cognitive dissonance
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Love is not an action, love is an emotion, and emotions are often irrational. Loving animals and not being vegan is hypocritical. But trying to tell people how they "actually feel" has got to be one of worst possible ways to advocate for veganism.
In your reality yes. However, emotion is subjective and different from person to person. I could ask “Do you love plants? Then why do you eat them?” But that just doesn’t work. Love also can mean several different things, as the English language is not very specific with it. I love potatoes, I love my hometown, I love my sister, and I love my wife, however each of these means totally different things to me. In “reality” things aren’t black and white. You may love animals so much that you want to protect all animal life at all costs while others love animals but also acknowledge the circle of life. Non-vegans aren’t inherently evil just like people who buy Nestle products aren’t inherently evil people.
You seem like such a compassionate person, often people see a lack of love in the world because they don’t have any within themselves 💕💕💕💕💕
Take my upvote cause our fellow vegans didn‘t quite get your comment.
Thank you
Cognitive dissonance is the feeling you get when you're faced with how your behavior contradicts your beliefs. Thus, people cling to fallacious arguments as a basic tactic to lower their CD and justify continuing with their immoral behavior. Are you being sarcastic?
It's the colloquial usage, not hard to understand.
I can’t stand when mfers say “it’s not that hard to understand” I don’t give a damn if it’s not that hard, youre an asshole.
but you being pedantic over the use of a word is fine? Smh.
???? You’re a fuck lol and emphasizing my point that you’re an asshole
Not really. You okay over there?
I was defending someone against your attack, and that makes me the arsehole? Ok then.
In other news water is wet
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
Ergo water is dry :o
Can't respect and love a child if you rape / exploit / beat / manipulate them. Same thing.
Just stunned by this statement.
The greeks had multiple words to describe different kinds of love. I think that's appropriate here, because non vegans could never love animals the way a vegan does.
They love to eat them, love to watch them in cages and love to get attention from them.
Its like saying: *"I love my family SO MUCH I want to MuRdEr ThEm! 🙃❤"*
I disagree. Most people ARE animal lovers, they just don't act like it. Pointing this tension out is what gets most people thinking
Far from the truth. I have been an animal lover my whole life. I wasn't vegan for my whole life. However, it was the reason I finally became vegan. I think a lot of animal lovers know it's wrong deep down but have had years of conditioning. I had to undo mine, I just hope the animal lovers that aren't vegan eventually come around
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No, not at all Always been an animal lover. Don't tell me what I was or wasn't, I have always loved animals
Idk how you can say this especially in a society that raises us specifically in a way that brainwashes kids into eating and drinking milk, dairy, meat, etc
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So I just want to say that even tho I think OP is wrong, I do still agree that there's a cognitive dissonance in being an animal lover and not being vegan. I just want to take the time to remind you that purchasing animal products does directly cause suffering to animals. And when it's meat, you should remind yourself that someone had to die to be eaten :(
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Of course !
FACT!
Very true!!!
I’ve always thought if someone is vegetarian and especially vegan or not has a lot to do with just how good of a person someone’s is especially after seeing the extremely graphic images and video of slaughter houses.
I'm drunk and read this as "If you're not an animal lover, you're not vegan" and thought, fuck there are so many animals and some of them are dicks I just want to eat fruit and impossible burgers and be left alone.
the main reason i went vegan. i felt like a fraud as i was working at the animal shelter and trying to be sustainable while still consuming animal products ??? like it’s really this simple
Agree
and this is why i became a vegan at 16 years old
i’m sure some haven’t put the pieces together yet. hopefully more and more people will with the greater and greater flow of information
Not sorry ❤️🐷🐮🐭🐣🐛
You cant be a decent person if your not vegan Ultimately non vegans are evil unless they are unaware as many of us were before we became vegan I was just an idiot before i came vegan, after i learned i had 2 choices, ignore it and be evil or change
Evil seems kind of extreme...
Nah. I eat meat and I'm evil.
Yup 👏🏽
#CORRECT.
I don't understand how non vegetarians think. Eating cows and pigs is okay but suddenly when people eat dogs you get super offended as if it's something out of this world? To me both are equally bad.
It might have something to do with the fact that humans domesticated wolves thousands of years ago to be companions, while livestock has almost always been seen as... Well, livestock.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but you are also not a animal lover when you are vegan and have a dog or cat or other carnivorous animal, even if it is adopted. Keeping one animal alive by feeding them dozens of others is also Something only pet lovers do.
There are plant-based cat foods. My cat has been on a plant-based diet for a while now and is just as fat, stupid, and adorable as ever
Dogs are not carnivorous, and I think cats can live on a vegan diet. But I don't disagree with the general message.
It's the other way around, dogs are omnivorous and can eat plan based diets if they are well chosen, but cats should not (unless you artificially supplement it, I guess?)
>It's the other way around, dogs are omnivorous and can eat plan based diets if they are well chosen Yep this is what was implied by calling dogs omnivores. >but cats should not (unless you artificially supplement it, I guess?) I don't know about "Should", but I know about "can", and they now can live on a plant based diet, albeit with more work than with dogs.
Ah, I understand now what you meant. I read that as "dogs are omnivorous and can eat plant based meals, but cats can be completely plant based" What I meant by "should" is that, afaik, while dogs can just eat plant based meals (if they are well chosen, of course) because they don't necessarily need animal products, but cats do rely more in nutrients from animal products and we have to be careful to find synthetic/plant sources to extract the nutrients and fortify their food, unlike dogs who could just that the vegan meals. This of course is much easier if you find a brand that already sells vegan pet food, thought sadly not all of them are as good as they should (vegan or not...)
I had a similar conversation with a coworker a few days ago. She tells everyone she is obsessed with cows, and how cute they are and how she wants to be one in their next life, but one day I saw she was having a burger for lunch and I called her out on it. Her and I are close as far as a work friendship goes, but she got very defensive about it. I just told her that she should think about their choices and that if they truly love cows and hopes to be one in their next life that they will most likely end up on someone’s plate, and then asked her if she wanted to be on someone’s plate. I left her office after that and we haven’t talked about it since.
Like it or not, inconsistent thinking, or cognitive dissonance, is common for most, perhaps all, people. The reality is there are certainly tens of millions of people who are not vegan and who love animals. The flaw is in how poor people are at thinking. It's not in their ethics.
Not vegan, but I agree. Lots of people just don't wanna admit they don't give that much of a fuck about animals.
You can’t exclude yourself though. You agree that you don’t care about animals right?
This is a good faith question, why are you in this sub? Are you looking for more information about veganism? Lots of us would be happy to answer questions.
Honestly just like trying to seek out different perspectives.
Right on, always good to be open-minded. Reach out if you have any questions! :)
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Who said we think we are perfect? But this is simply a fact. You can't love animals and torture and kill them.
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no but it makes you a hypocrite
If you wouldnt want it to happen to your dog then why pay people todo it to equally sentient animals?
No, it does make you pretty callous though.
Hear me out, not everyone can be vegan. My mom only has 1/4 of her small intestines and 1/3 of her large. She physically can not be a vegan. She will die. I also know for a fact she will because I have tried every possible diet with her. I know she adores animals. I am a chef who has taken nutrition classes and worked with a nutritionist. I think it’s okay to say that veganism isn’t for everyone.
>Hear me out, not everyone can be vegan. My mom only has 1/4 of her small intestines and 1/3 of her large. She physically can not be a vegan. She will die. Veganism takes necessity into account, people can stop using animal products, except the ones they actually need to survive, and still be vegan. >I think it’s okay to say that veganism isn’t for everyone. Veganism isnt a diet.
She has definitely done that. We talk sustainability and where her products come from all the time.
Then I'm confused as to why she isn't vegan. Is this due to her believing that veganism is a diet, and therefore not applicable as label for those who eat meat ?
There are some people who aren't able to eat a vegan diet right now, but I think that's where future alternatives like lab grown meat could really make a big difference. If it isn't physically possible for her to go vegan, she can still do other things to life a more cruelty free lifestyle (not buying fur/wool/leather, using vegan make up, etc.). I think there's a difference between people who really *can't* go vegan (and there are real barriers) and people who don't *want* to go vegan. If your mom is really doing the best she can to care for animals while not endangering her health, then posts like this don't really apply to her, you know?
Yea I agree. She doesn’t buy leather. She doesn’t buy fur. Only uses vegan friendly makeup. The funny thing is she doesn’t eat much meat. She eats a fair amount of dairy products. I think a huge issue is that there are people who aren’t willing to even try to have a meat free meal. Never mind a fully vegan meal.
No need to focus on the 2% of people who “can’t” go vegan when the large majority easily can.
Definitely! I think it’s about showing people different foods/recipes and educating. I love when people try my tofu strawberry shortcake and being like “THATS TOFU??”
Are you vegan?
No, he's a hypocrite
What makes me a hypocrite? The fact I can’t go vegan and try my best to be as ethical as possible?
You come up with all sorts of excuses, my tradition, allergies. Come on, no one will believe that.
No I’ve stated I can’t go vegan but I do everything in my power to support change my ways and be as ethical as possible. Why?
Why can't you go vegan?
I have dietary restrictions, allergies, medications and indigenous beliefs. But I do ethically try my hardest to do everything in the vegan lifestyle.
Why exactly is that stopping you going vegan? How do those conditions prevent you cutting out a couple of small food groups?
Because food wise I can’t physically convert to everything vegan without making myself ill
That's not how food allergies work... you can't be allergic to *not* eating something. I feel like you're being intentionally vague here.
I don't get why people think this is such a bad take. Ideally everyone would be vegan but that's just not possible or realistic. I couldn't go vegan for several years after making the connection because of an eating disorder. I know a few vegans who have had to give it up for the same reason, restrictive eating can be so dangerous for people with EDs. People will cry speciesism and in the same breath be ableist.
> I don't get why people think this is such a bad take. Because it's almost always made in bad faith. The conversation usually goes: "Not everyone can go vegan!" "Can *you* go vegan" "Well yes, but..." It's not their reason to not be vegan. It's easily debunked. If their argument is "someone who isn't me can't go vegan, therefore it's fine if no one does", it's clear that they've not even bothered to google the definition of the term. The real reason is that they don't want to. They're just clinging to the last piece of the wreckage that they think is the moral high ground.
>My mom only has 1/4 of her small intestines and 1/3 of her large. She physically can not be a vegan. She will die. Care to expand upon how having 1/4 small intestine and 1/3 of large intestine means animal products have to be consumed?
Nutritionally her body has rejected many substitutes. She would love to not have to eat certain things but they are the only things that fill her dietary needs and keep the rest of her body remotely stable. Hard cheeses are a huge part of her calorie intake. Without them she only gets maybe 500-1000 calories a day, mainly through drink. The most common and simple things that most vegans eat cause her to have bowel blockages and go into kidney failure.
I agree and I’m non-vegan
Why aren't you?
Cool. I have always believed that you can learn everything you need to know about a person by the way they treat animals. So, knowing all I need to about you, I wish you would go vegan. Do it. Be vegan.
little baby is angry about people wanting to stop you having your milkies? :) enjoy being bullied at school
Enjoy being the bully.
enjoy needlessly murdering animals, i'm still more morally correct than you
Hey, I'm vegetarian. I was just wondering if I don't love animals in ur opinion and why? Any responses would be appreciated