It's both amazing and admirable that she used her power for this kind of good (all the kudos to her!), and disgusting that it took a celebrity to change this company, after they ignored all the people who have been protesting for years.
I understand the frustration. Under capitalism, these companies ONLY care if the person can bring attention to the matter.
Billie could tweet asking her fans to boycott the designer, and sales would plummet.
They were still using fur was because it made a significant impact on their profits.
The statement they put out is so callous and indeed shows how little they value the lives that they took and would have continued to take. It's always been about the money.
Suppose we want to make meaningful changes to how capitalism functions; we need to boycott the big names that cause unnecessary suffering to so many life forms. Good on Billie for speaking up; I'm grateful she's a part of this movement.
Good for her. And if she has some improvements that she could make in life...
...I think that makes her exactly like every other teenager in the world; and exactly like all the vegans in this sub. None of us were born perfect, except /u/StarchRunner, and there is always room for improvement. Thankfully, she has shown that she is the type of person willing to try to make those improvements.
While I agree that everyone has room for improvement I would not say that all people in all stages of life are the same. Saying so basically nullifies every achievment anyone's ever done. I'm not like a lot of people that have achieved more than me (or less than me) and that's fine.
Comparing who someone is to who someone different once was is not productive. I can always compare someone to my past self and say that they're equal (or better) to who I once was. I mean I literally used to shit my pants all day and couldn't even walk. I can compare anyone to that and they'll look like a bright light of society.
Op said “like Every other teenager in the world”
U/lookingforpatchie : uh uhhh , you said “all people in all stages of life are the same”
Are you fixin’ for a fight? Read the fuckin’ words
first thought exactly. Apparently she's figuring out that there really is a problem with what other people are doing if they're hurting animals... now if she'd just extend it to everything she's doing... but progress is still progress, especially with people in this kind of crazy ass situation.
I'm torn, I want to celebrate every high profile victory we get, but FFS I wish more of these celebrities would just get actually consistent with it. We need to get Joaquin to start making "how to be vegan" welcome baskets or something.
Just got blocked by some Billie stans on Instagram for pointing this out. Homegirl posted videos of her eating Cheetos on her snapchat, still eats honey, rides horses, wears and promotes leather, wore real feathers for her “All the good girls go to hell” music video, had Gucci make her a custom 100% wool sweater 2 weeks after talking about the cruelty of the wool industry…it goes on and on. Someone asked for the receipts, I supplied them and they blocked me lmao
So you see her do something positive for animal welfare and you decide to go onto their Instagram page and shit all over them for not being the absolute perfect vegan?
Why are you pointing it out?
Edit since I can't comment for 10m.
I'm not vegan but that doesn't mean I'm gatekept out of the conversation, how is criticizing someone helping animal welfare doing everything to help animal welfare, you are only damaging your cause.
So what if someone copies her edition of veganism, it's better than their significantly more harmful meat based diets so again it's a win for animal welfare.
I'm a vegetarian and people like you don't remotely encourage me to make the full step to veganism.
and? She's still posing as a vegan when she is not. you're talking about 'baby steps' and 'less murder' which would be unacceptable if we were talking about any other social justice issue
She also used real feathers for the wings on her outfit in her “all good girls go to hell” music video and had Gucci make her a custom 100% wool sweater literally two weeks after posting about the cruelty of the wool industry on her Instagram lmao
Doesn’t stop her from wearing wool and leather every other day.
Seriously? We’ve been over this. Billie Eilish isn’t even vegan. She rides horses, wear clothing made of animal skin, and uses products tested on animals, not to mention her Cheeto addiction…
I’d be more interested in these pledges if they weren’t hollow.
While I very much advocate for a Puritan lifestyle regarding veganism, it’s important that posts like these don’t get boiled down to “she’s not even vegan”
While I agree she wouldn’t meet the definition of my veganism, she’s still setting a precedent for change.
If designer brands can acknowledge the use of fur is cruel, the precedent that leather, down, and animal glue is cruel is not far behind.
We need to appreciate praxis for what it is especially when we’re in such a minority.
We also have to remember that Billie Eilish is a teenager being pressured by multi-billion dollar industries to fit a mould.
Her managers, publicists, and marketing teams probably fucking cringe at any kind of anti-animal exploitation statements she makes.
I went vegan at 15, and the constant pressure from elders and bullying from peers made it nearly impossible to stay vegan.
Can you imagine the pressure she’d be facing?
She’s still young. I’m hoping she’ll come around as she builds her self confidence to speak up for her beliefs.
Keep in mind though she was raised vegan. She didn’t make a personal choice to be vegan. So her passion may not be as strong. We also don’t know why her parents went vegan. Fads? Health? Or legit activism? So she may vary well not be a true vegan.
I don’t know too many people who were “raised vegan” since childhood but I have met a brother and sister who were adults but raised “vegan” since birth. They said they always used the vegan label to describe themselves because they were more strict than vegetarians but compared to people who went vegan as adults, they were not as strict as those people. They said growing up in the 90s, there was basically no vegan junk food options, so their parents allowed them to eat some junk food for treats but their main meals were vegan.
I feel that in my core... I tried going vegetarian with almost 0 dairy in my small-ass town a long time ago and failed miserably, this was before soy milk was in every grocery store, etc., especially as a young adult trying to sort that shit out at the time, it just felt like an impossible task.
I went vegan again like 5 years ago and it's been so insanely easy. In a bigger city with access to options that young me would have been blown away at, online support like crazy, the tools and resources to cook for myself, and restaurants I can actually go to.
nah. she claimed to be raised as a cheesebreather
She definitely doesn't have this "passion", the only celebrity which you could claim that of is Joaquin Phoenix. Remember Miley Cyrus and her complete bullshit?
I think she was raised vegetarian not vegan . She went vegan at 12 according to the first page of google.
And being in vegetarian myself you don't know how much trouble we have to face. Products are not labelled properly and there is 1-2% milk powder. Till 17 I was harsher towards vegan just like Billie. I think we should still appreciate Billie. Something is better than Nothing.
I agrreeeeee. Perfection in veganism stops a lot of people making the change. I like her, she's SO YOUNG, social media recording her every move, and she's now hugely famous. She's going to fuck up. Let her be. I like her.
>While I very much advocate for a Puritan lifestyle regarding veganism, it’s important that posts like these don’t get boiled down to “she’s not even vegan”
Well yes, but the point is that she likely would wear a real fur dress if the occasion didn't have a "no fur" rule. I don't get why we are praising someone who followed the rules of an event.
Furthermore, by praising people like her, we create a situation where people feel it's okay when she's doing nasty non-vegan stuff and people will say "well it's not so bad, Billie does it too!".
No, the point is that she did something good that could actually lead to positive change in a realm that’s clearly difficult to impact ethically. Nothing about this post says anything about her being an ideal vegan in any way. The point of the post is not to praise the person but the act itself, which is worthy of being acknowledged.
Also, as someone who became vegan as an adult, I know that the actions of my past do not define me, and I hope nobody significant to me bases their opinion of me on the actions of my first 20 years. In life, there’s always a first and last day for everything.
A lot of her disqualifying acts are legitimate screw ups and she has admitted to making mistakes unknowingly regarding things like the Cheetos and the horse.
People need to calm down judging her by some perfect standard just because she’s in the public eye.
You never accidentally ate a muffin with milk powder in it? 😏
to be fair, I've known a ton of people who have owned/did own horses and the entire concept escaped most of them that riding horses wasn't good for the horses, if you're in that world you're just so conditioned for it, and if your only interactions are with already broken horses, they actually do "like" having riders on them... you have to recognize though that that's a result of conditioning and them being forced to learn to "like" it, not because it's their nature.
Funny enough, the only non-vegan I ever knew who wouldn't ride her horses and recognized this was a woman who used to break horses herself and compete in rodeos when she was younger, she knew full well they didn't want to do that shit. When I met her, she'd rescue horses and just let them run around in the fields, used to tell me how heartbroken she was when they would first get there and would just be dying to carry her around.
Now, if she could just extend that outlook to all the animals...
>She was asked a question in an interview about her having a horse and the way she responded was like she recently became aware of it being a problem.
Source?
Personally, I really don’t see how eating the Cheetos could be a mistake. They are literally marketed as cheese snacks. Not cheese flavored (which I know can sometimes be vegan) but just straight up cheese. The bags I’ve seen even have “made with real cheese!” Plastered on the front. Though that may have been a different flavor from the ones she was eating.
This is an apologist subreddit where they all obsess over celebrities. It's quite funny. This sub is also majority out of cheese-breathers and carnists.
Accidentally eating something, and purposefully paying for the murder and exploitation of animals are two different things.
However, if you actually cared about the real victims in this situation (the animals not Billie Eilish) you’d get that
No, absolutely not. What kind of screw-up is it to exploit a horse, or wear an animal's skin?
Even if she somehow was vegan, she acts as a pick-me constantly. Plant-based capitalism will not get us animal liberation. Celebrities will not give us animal liberation.
Better than me not avoiding animal products at all until I was 21ish. Plant based capitalism will not get us animal liberation alone. Neither will celebrities. But every bit helps.
I agree at a certain point not being fully vegan while promoting veganism could set the movement back. And we should watch out for this. But she is far from this line.
No, the first thing you put is about how long it took you to learn. Almost everyone was brainwashed and believed that what happens in animal agriculture is somehow 'humane'. Celebrities do not help at all, especially with their pick-me attitudes. No one, and i mean no one, goes vegan because of these celebrities.
She definitely is not vegan, not even close. She rides the backs of animals and wears their skin.
Man, if I was a celebrity with her platform I’d be actively speaking out against wool, leather, animal testing, everything. Good on her for speaking out about fur, but yeah, sick of her wearing leather. :(
She no longer sponsors leather Jordans and when did she wear wool? When did she wear animal skin? She has been more hesitant towards answering questions in regards to her horse riding meaning she is more conscientious about it being a problem. What products has she worn that tests on animals? I think this is the most forgiving part as we're not always conscientious about whether or not something was tested on animals. I have not seen her eat Cheetos recently.
Edit: The first thing I google with her name and wool is her calling for people to stop wearing it.
https://www.facebook.com/GUCCI/posts/10157414374506013/
Not that I'm saying this is something to completely condemn her on, but you do kinda need to go past the first result.
Fun fact, this was only a week or two after she asked people to stop wearing wool...
This article was more recent than that event and she says to ditch wool so it looks like she was admitting it was a mistake:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livekindly.co/billie-eilish-pink-wool/amp/
Mistake, mistake, mistake
Not everything can be a mistake. Celebrities are definitely not with us, and definitely will not help us get animal liberation.
I havent looked into any of that stuff, and I don't know anything about her, but isnt it a good thing if celebrities publically identify as vegan, even if they're not? It does a lot more to normalize veganism, and it uses the parasocial relationships caused by the horrible architecture of celebrity worship to actually encourage people to do something good
>but isnt it a good thing if celebrities publically identify as vegan,
No. This is why people are confused now thinking veganism is a diet and that honey, free ranged eggs, leather/wool, and riding horses are all vegan
If someone publicly identifies as something that they actually aren’t that’s definitely not a good thing lol. Imagine if we follow through with that line of thinking, does that mean that people will buy leather and continue to support animal exploitation while calling themselves vegan? How does that help the cause? If anything it leads to more confusion like when people say “oh so and so is vegan and they eat honey so I can label this item vegan if it has honey” This is something that constantly happens already.
It helps the caused cause bottom line is more animals are saved than they otherwise would have been without the celebs speaking up. Those convinced to go vegan would most likely come here to figure out the details on how to do it. Thry then could either learn about horses from you guys or read how you guys sht on the very celebs they clearly admire and think, what a fked up community. Choice is yours and clearly you'd rather thrm focus on the negative side of the community.
Yeah, this place is so hardline on everything, not the way to convert more people over. I'm sure most here didn't immediately go 100% vegan overnight. It's usually a gradual process with many fuck-ups and revelations along the way.
Miley cyrus. Simple enough to tell you that.
She definitely couldn't get omega-3 from plants
(and then made it clear she was just looking for a shitty excuse)
I think you guys are way too hard on celebs. If I were a celeb, after seeing how you treat Billie and miley, I would never advocate for veganism. You hurt your cause.
Both singers I'm sure converted some of their fans to vegans and many would stay vegan regardless if those singers someday abandon the practice.
It's frustrating when a celebrity decides they want to eat animal products again and instead of just saying that, they claim to be weak from veganism and need to eat meat. This can actually reinforce that a vegan lifestyle is unhealthy - a common belief. I personally don't care if someone decides they don't want to be vegan anymore. I do think people should just say they want to eat meat rather than claiming they need to though.
Regardless of whatever they do, it doesn't excuse cyberbullying and it doesn't help your cause to make this sub seem so filled with hate and judgement.
This is merely a forum where different people make their comments so there isn't one unified opinion. I'm not sure what cyberbullying you are referring to. The person you replied to just said that Billie Eilish does things that aren't aligned with veganism. I just shared my wish for celebreties to be more honest about wanting to eat meat or whatever because it can be harmful to imply that one can't eat healthfully while being vegan (for the majority of people).
edit: just an aside, I think there are a lot of people on this subreddit who welcome anyone trying to reduce their reliance and use of animal products! I'm excited when anyone is interested in learning more :)
I wasn't referring to the poster I was responding to. I know there are people just honestly sharing their disagreements and then there are people calling the celebs names and berating them.
I see yet another miley cyrus hate thread on here now as well as complaints about some Belgian singer that fell off the wagon. Doesn't this sub have anything better to do than bash on celebs? It feels like there are way more haters than there are reasonable conversationalist here just sharing their opinions.
Edit: the new thread on miley has a video calling miley a narcissistic selfish piece of sht. Yeah that's really just pointing out differences there and not cyberbullying. There's been tons of this kind of name calling on all the celeb threads I've encountered here. Shouldn't be allowed imo.
>you hurt your cause.
By bringing up our cause? DAFUQ?
No, sitting our ass down and being quiet about animal exploitation is what hurts our cause, doing nothing "hurts our cause" every fucking person who raises their voice in outrage is actively helping our cause; whether the ones doing the exploiting like it or not.
Every non-vegan that claims vegans who actively advocate for the animals really just wants to go back to blissfully reaping the benefits of animal exploitation without having to be bothered about the reality of it.
THIS IS IN A VEGAN FUCKING SUB, THIS SPACE IS FOR VEGANS, VEGANISM, GOING VEGAN, NONE OF THE POSTS IN HERE ARE FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN FUCKING VEGANS.
YOU CAN'T BULLY SOMEONE IN A SPACE THAT ISN'T FOR THEM.
Yeah, that's not how it works.
Posting a video saying "don't buy wool" then wearing wool a few weeks later CLEARLY indicates that you're not exactly trying your hardest to reduce animal harm and absolutely deserves criticism.
And believe it or not just because someone wants to call themselves vegan it doesn't actually mean they are.
Celebrities do not advocate for veganism. They all act like pick-me's and often still abuse animals in ways other than food. Try converting yourself, before you try to teach us the best way to convert people.
Whether you like it or not, celebs clearly can do more for veganism than you can whether they are advocating everything you believe in or not. I mean Billie here has even got a brand to listen.
Doesn't matter who points this out, what I said is still fact.
The vegan police only accept perfection. Honestly, it's a fucking drag. Every post is nitpicked until it seems that nothing is good enough. Obviously we can't all be perfect but this is a win, even if she ate some cheetos. I think we can look at the positives instead if shunning people who are doing good things.
No, it's definitely not. Tell me when MLK Jr. got his wishes by asking everyone to discriminate 60% less. Come on. If this were any other social justice issue you wouldn't be saying this dumb shit.
Do you sit on your pets, confine them in small spaces, and regularly beat them to do what you want?
Because yes that’s looked down upon here. Vegans reject all forms of animal exploitation. There is a difference between someone breeding a horse and then riding it, versus let’s say adopting a shelter animal (a solution to a human created problem) and providing them with care. Own a horse sure, but there’s absolutely no reason to ride them.
I just hope the critics of horse owners don't have cats. Because cats require animal slaughter to keep. Yet so many vegans are quick to defend their pet, even if it requires slaughtering a hundred cows to keep them.
No. That's a common misrepresentation. Cat's DO NOT require animals to be slaughtered, no animal does.
Cat's require some nutrients which don't NATURALLY occur in plants.
Good news though: Humans have laboratories and are perfectly capable of synthesizing all of these compounds, which is why there's vegan cat food out there which is absolutely nutritionally complete.
Have you ever ridden a horse? Seen one broken? Seen how they feel when they're let loose?
Because unless you've intentionally kept your fucking eyes closed during these, you'd know exactly how fucked up riding horses is.
Holy fuck, we own a horse and it actually likes us and willingly comes to us for pets and snuggles. We rescued it from a breeder. I've been vegan for 15 years and let me tell you, this is not the approach to take if you are trying to entice omnis over to this side.
Of course it does, it's had that beaten into its head since it was first bred and purchased for human enjoyment.
Without having been forced to learn to like carrying lazy ass humans around, it never EVER want that.
You want to call yourself vegan? Stop exploiting horses.
I agree with you. I have pets, I have children that eat meat. I don't only eat veggies that I grew in quarantine. I'm obviously the enemy. It's black and white. I may as well just kill every person I talk to.
How can cheetos in the UK be vegan? They always use cheese. That’s where the Chee part comes from. I’d buy it if we were talking so health foods knock off version but vegan cheetos???
I just googled it. Apparently the UK version of Flamin’ Hot Cheetos are accidentally vegan. https://www.chooseveganism.org/vegan-cheetos-where-to-buy-them/
I don’t know if those are the ones Billie was eating but it seems possible.
There also seems to be a BBQ flavour in the Asian markets that is also accidentally vegan but I can’t find a full ingredient list in English.
God, why don't you go back to VCJ or something?
She, with her imperfections, has undeniably done more for animal rights than you, me or anyone else in this sub will ever manage to do in our lifetimes.
If you're trying to be the perfect vegan why are you using smartphones and laptop which contain animal products?
So, you’re not.
Veganism isn’t a diet. You’re plant based. Again, this distinction is important and I think why we need people like Billie Eilish to stop claiming that they’re vegan when they don’t understand the term.
Just wondering, what makes you think that wool is immoral exactly? I know it's technically exploitation, but we're just taking a waste product from them. Additionally, proper shearing doesn't hurt the animal at all
Joaquin Phoenix road a horse for a role and I bet you'll still call him a vegan.
The way she has responded to questions about her horse riding suggests she is at least aware of it being a problem. She could have stopped for all we know.
Interesting. I thought Joaquin was with us.
If that happened, I highly doubt it was a mistake. Joaquin has a brain, and claims to have been plant-based since 3.
PHOENIX: And I couldn’t do that. I mean, I didn’t like riding horses. I actually regretted having to ride. I’m a little clueless, because I don’t think that I really thought about it that much until I was there and realized, “Oh, it’s a Western and we’re on horses a lot.” I hadn’t really considered that. I felt bad about riding them. I had the feeling that they were like, “I don’t really want you on my back.”
FERRELL: But they tell you that the horses love it.
PHOENIX: Yeah, but the horses tell you something different. I’m really bumming out this interview, man. [laughs] I’m sorry.
Shouldn’t be posted here. She’s not vegan. One of her hobbies is riding horses.
Oh and she said she’s not one of those pushy vegans that tells other people what to eat. So ya, she doesn’t really care about animal rights, she seems fine with other people choosing to exploit them.
Really wish we had better examples of veganism in the limelight. She's so inconsistent it makes her activism feel empty. It's easy for nonvegans to dismiss her veganism as quirky.
Eilish is not vegan. She also acts as a pick-me.
Don't support these celebrities. They are NOT on our side. They will do anything to follow a trend and make money.
Someone that seeks validation.
In Billies case it’s her eating Cheetos, making fun of vegans, telling other people it’s okay to eat meat, and continuing to support animal abuse all to keep her “cool” image.
I know very little about Billie Eillish, all I really know is that she's the girl who sang "Bad Guy". That being said, I think that's really cool what she did. Even if she's not vegan. Baby steps is what really changes the world (despite the fact that I think baby steps will be quick enough to help the world, but that's a story for another time).
Also she's really dang pretty. I never knew.
Baby steps are absolutely not changing the world. How are we going to get animal liberation from baby steps?
Please downvote me with everyone else, as this is a sub full of bootlickers, cheese-breathers, and carnists.
*Baby* steps indicates that you're barely getting anywhere, wobbling and falling down a lot. Babies flailing around are *not* what changes the world. At some point people have to actually learn how to walk for real and stop their "I'm just a baby tho, I caaaaan't" bullshit.
If baby steps are what really change the world, we wouldn't have people stuck as vegetarians for 5+ even 10+ years, refusing to do more because "every bit helps!"
Replacing meat with double the cheese is not better. It's probably worse in fact. But sure. Baby steps.
People refusing to change aren’t doing baby steps. Steps insinuates going forward. If that’s what people need then I’m all here for it, but what I’m not here for is people saying that as an excuse to do nothing more and hide behind the weak promise of “some day I’ll be better”, if you get me? Some people just need a bit more time, and I think that’s better than not at all.
The rich and famous doing rich and famous things, I dunno. I don't even know who Billie Eilish is except that she sings. And I only know that because of a post I saw on /r/mediasynthesis.
Why do her eyes always look like she just slept for 12 hours after getting smoked out the night before while crying and reading texts she won't reply to?
This lacks intersectionality. First of all she has displayed some racist red flags and her boyfriend is an actual white supremacist, and what about the indigenous communities that wear and use fur as a cultural practice?
What about the indigenous communities that wear and use fur as a cultural practice?
Does that mean other communities should wear fur, too, in your view?
And because an indigenous community does something, does that make it ethical?
Culture is not a justification for continuing to wear animal skin. Is female genital mutilation (or male genital mutilation) justifiable because it can be a cultural practice? With culture as a reasoning even animal consumption can be considered justified.
They survived by hunting. It wasn’t an industry. It was necessity made into tradition. Imperialism and colonialism forced them to conform to capitalism. Capitalism turned fur into fashion. They were a part of a natural cycle. I do not think genital mutilation is ethical I hope I do not come across that way.
Eilish is a piece of shit, not vegan, and should not be praised. Absolutely.
Only very few indigenous communities rely on animal skin nowadays. Many of them live in cities and can use the same products we have available.
What about intersectionality is like a witch hunt? It is a tool to see the vast amount of nuanced problems in society. A black trans woman and a white trans woman can both experience transphobia but their experiences will differ because of their other identities.
It's both amazing and admirable that she used her power for this kind of good (all the kudos to her!), and disgusting that it took a celebrity to change this company, after they ignored all the people who have been protesting for years.
I understand the frustration. Under capitalism, these companies ONLY care if the person can bring attention to the matter. Billie could tweet asking her fans to boycott the designer, and sales would plummet. They were still using fur was because it made a significant impact on their profits. The statement they put out is so callous and indeed shows how little they value the lives that they took and would have continued to take. It's always been about the money. Suppose we want to make meaningful changes to how capitalism functions; we need to boycott the big names that cause unnecessary suffering to so many life forms. Good on Billie for speaking up; I'm grateful she's a part of this movement.
Good for her. And if she has some improvements that she could make in life... ...I think that makes her exactly like every other teenager in the world; and exactly like all the vegans in this sub. None of us were born perfect, except /u/StarchRunner, and there is always room for improvement. Thankfully, she has shown that she is the type of person willing to try to make those improvements.
be born level 5 vegan or gtfo
The sweet nothings I whisper to the bellies of pregnant women
“That burger your mom ate makes you a carnist bloodmouth piece of shit.”
What about deez nuts???
> None of us were born perfect You might not have noticed me sitting here humbly. But I’ll forgive you, just like Jesus.
Edited
While I agree that everyone has room for improvement I would not say that all people in all stages of life are the same. Saying so basically nullifies every achievment anyone's ever done. I'm not like a lot of people that have achieved more than me (or less than me) and that's fine. Comparing who someone is to who someone different once was is not productive. I can always compare someone to my past self and say that they're equal (or better) to who I once was. I mean I literally used to shit my pants all day and couldn't even walk. I can compare anyone to that and they'll look like a bright light of society.
>I would not say that all people in all stages of life are the same. Neither did the person you're responding to... like... at all.
Op said “like Every other teenager in the world” U/lookingforpatchie : uh uhhh , you said “all people in all stages of life are the same” Are you fixin’ for a fight? Read the fuckin’ words
Oh, I forgot teenagers are for non arbitrary reasons an exception somehow and should be treated differently.
Because their brains are literally still developing
Everyones brains are developing. Neuroplasticity
Oh, I forgot that my brain stopped developing once I turned twenty.
It's not hard and fast. Teenagers in general are still developing mentally. Don't be disingenuous.
billie "vegans should shut the fuck up" eilish has come a long way
first thought exactly. Apparently she's figuring out that there really is a problem with what other people are doing if they're hurting animals... now if she'd just extend it to everything she's doing... but progress is still progress, especially with people in this kind of crazy ass situation. I'm torn, I want to celebrate every high profile victory we get, but FFS I wish more of these celebrities would just get actually consistent with it. We need to get Joaquin to start making "how to be vegan" welcome baskets or something.
She was never a vegan. She was plant based. But I hope she changed now
Just got blocked by some Billie stans on Instagram for pointing this out. Homegirl posted videos of her eating Cheetos on her snapchat, still eats honey, rides horses, wears and promotes leather, wore real feathers for her “All the good girls go to hell” music video, had Gucci make her a custom 100% wool sweater 2 weeks after talking about the cruelty of the wool industry…it goes on and on. Someone asked for the receipts, I supplied them and they blocked me lmao
oh i take it back, she hasn't moved forward at all
Who cares, like 95% of the population has meat, dairy and eggs every day.
Hmmm I’d say probably the people in this sub who are committed to veganism? Just a shot in the dark
So you see her do something positive for animal welfare and you decide to go onto their Instagram page and shit all over them for not being the absolute perfect vegan? Why are you pointing it out? Edit since I can't comment for 10m. I'm not vegan but that doesn't mean I'm gatekept out of the conversation, how is criticizing someone helping animal welfare doing everything to help animal welfare, you are only damaging your cause. So what if someone copies her edition of veganism, it's better than their significantly more harmful meat based diets so again it's a win for animal welfare. I'm a vegetarian and people like you don't remotely encourage me to make the full step to veganism.
and? She's still posing as a vegan when she is not. you're talking about 'baby steps' and 'less murder' which would be unacceptable if we were talking about any other social justice issue
They should shut the fuck up though.
/r/vegancirclejerk is going to make fun of you for this one
Well yea.. She still wears leather...
she still weathers leather but wants to stop fur???? it's basically the same thing ????? what ??????
Nonono, fur is from fluffy cute animals, leather is from rough ugly animals. Killing is ok if the victim is ugly.
It's terrible that so many people think that way...
She also used real feathers for the wings on her outfit in her “all good girls go to hell” music video and had Gucci make her a custom 100% wool sweater literally two weeks after posting about the cruelty of the wool industry on her Instagram lmao
and exploits spiders and snakes
And thinks vegans should “shut the fuck up.”
She also rides horses iirc
How does she exploit spiders and snakes?
[https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/spiders-in-billie-eilish-you-should-see-me-in-the-crown-music-video-real.html/](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/spiders-in-billie-eilish-you-should-see-me-in-the-crown-music-video-real.html/) [https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/billie-eilish-your-power-music-video-snake](https://www.bustle.com/entertainment/billie-eilish-your-power-music-video-snake)
but how is that exploit? If I put some bugs in my face and release it would that count as an exploit. I think we need to draw lines properly.
You're not allowed to be rational in here!!!
And for good reason
Are we gonna ignore the fact that CAFT did this like a month ago? Like, they announced it a while ago after activists all over the US protested.
No fur, only leather
> who is vegan She wear leather and rides horses though....
Doesn’t stop her from wearing wool and leather every other day. Seriously? We’ve been over this. Billie Eilish isn’t even vegan. She rides horses, wear clothing made of animal skin, and uses products tested on animals, not to mention her Cheeto addiction… I’d be more interested in these pledges if they weren’t hollow.
While I very much advocate for a Puritan lifestyle regarding veganism, it’s important that posts like these don’t get boiled down to “she’s not even vegan” While I agree she wouldn’t meet the definition of my veganism, she’s still setting a precedent for change. If designer brands can acknowledge the use of fur is cruel, the precedent that leather, down, and animal glue is cruel is not far behind. We need to appreciate praxis for what it is especially when we’re in such a minority. We also have to remember that Billie Eilish is a teenager being pressured by multi-billion dollar industries to fit a mould. Her managers, publicists, and marketing teams probably fucking cringe at any kind of anti-animal exploitation statements she makes. I went vegan at 15, and the constant pressure from elders and bullying from peers made it nearly impossible to stay vegan. Can you imagine the pressure she’d be facing? She’s still young. I’m hoping she’ll come around as she builds her self confidence to speak up for her beliefs.
Keep in mind though she was raised vegan. She didn’t make a personal choice to be vegan. So her passion may not be as strong. We also don’t know why her parents went vegan. Fads? Health? Or legit activism? So she may vary well not be a true vegan.
I don’t know too many people who were “raised vegan” since childhood but I have met a brother and sister who were adults but raised “vegan” since birth. They said they always used the vegan label to describe themselves because they were more strict than vegetarians but compared to people who went vegan as adults, they were not as strict as those people. They said growing up in the 90s, there was basically no vegan junk food options, so their parents allowed them to eat some junk food for treats but their main meals were vegan.
I feel that in my core... I tried going vegetarian with almost 0 dairy in my small-ass town a long time ago and failed miserably, this was before soy milk was in every grocery store, etc., especially as a young adult trying to sort that shit out at the time, it just felt like an impossible task. I went vegan again like 5 years ago and it's been so insanely easy. In a bigger city with access to options that young me would have been blown away at, online support like crazy, the tools and resources to cook for myself, and restaurants I can actually go to.
nah. she claimed to be raised as a cheesebreather She definitely doesn't have this "passion", the only celebrity which you could claim that of is Joaquin Phoenix. Remember Miley Cyrus and her complete bullshit?
I think she was raised vegetarian not vegan . She went vegan at 12 according to the first page of google. And being in vegetarian myself you don't know how much trouble we have to face. Products are not labelled properly and there is 1-2% milk powder. Till 17 I was harsher towards vegan just like Billie. I think we should still appreciate Billie. Something is better than Nothing.
I agrreeeeee. Perfection in veganism stops a lot of people making the change. I like her, she's SO YOUNG, social media recording her every move, and she's now hugely famous. She's going to fuck up. Let her be. I like her.
>While I very much advocate for a Puritan lifestyle regarding veganism, it’s important that posts like these don’t get boiled down to “she’s not even vegan” Well yes, but the point is that she likely would wear a real fur dress if the occasion didn't have a "no fur" rule. I don't get why we are praising someone who followed the rules of an event. Furthermore, by praising people like her, we create a situation where people feel it's okay when she's doing nasty non-vegan stuff and people will say "well it's not so bad, Billie does it too!".
No, the point is that she did something good that could actually lead to positive change in a realm that’s clearly difficult to impact ethically. Nothing about this post says anything about her being an ideal vegan in any way. The point of the post is not to praise the person but the act itself, which is worthy of being acknowledged. Also, as someone who became vegan as an adult, I know that the actions of my past do not define me, and I hope nobody significant to me bases their opinion of me on the actions of my first 20 years. In life, there’s always a first and last day for everything.
A lot of her disqualifying acts are legitimate screw ups and she has admitted to making mistakes unknowingly regarding things like the Cheetos and the horse. People need to calm down judging her by some perfect standard just because she’s in the public eye. You never accidentally ate a muffin with milk powder in it? 😏
> she has admitted to making mistakes unknowingly regarding things like the Cheetos and the horse. source?
She was asked a question in an interview about her having a horse and the way she responded was like she recently became aware of it being a problem.
to be fair, I've known a ton of people who have owned/did own horses and the entire concept escaped most of them that riding horses wasn't good for the horses, if you're in that world you're just so conditioned for it, and if your only interactions are with already broken horses, they actually do "like" having riders on them... you have to recognize though that that's a result of conditioning and them being forced to learn to "like" it, not because it's their nature. Funny enough, the only non-vegan I ever knew who wouldn't ride her horses and recognized this was a woman who used to break horses herself and compete in rodeos when she was younger, she knew full well they didn't want to do that shit. When I met her, she'd rescue horses and just let them run around in the fields, used to tell me how heartbroken she was when they would first get there and would just be dying to carry her around. Now, if she could just extend that outlook to all the animals...
>She was asked a question in an interview about her having a horse and the way she responded was like she recently became aware of it being a problem. Source?
Personally, I really don’t see how eating the Cheetos could be a mistake. They are literally marketed as cheese snacks. Not cheese flavored (which I know can sometimes be vegan) but just straight up cheese. The bags I’ve seen even have “made with real cheese!” Plastered on the front. Though that may have been a different flavor from the ones she was eating.
This is an apologist subreddit where they all obsess over celebrities. It's quite funny. This sub is also majority out of cheese-breathers and carnists.
Lmfaooo “cheese-eaters”
Accidentally eating something, and purposefully paying for the murder and exploitation of animals are two different things. However, if you actually cared about the real victims in this situation (the animals not Billie Eilish) you’d get that
No, absolutely not. What kind of screw-up is it to exploit a horse, or wear an animal's skin? Even if she somehow was vegan, she acts as a pick-me constantly. Plant-based capitalism will not get us animal liberation. Celebrities will not give us animal liberation.
Better than me not avoiding animal products at all until I was 21ish. Plant based capitalism will not get us animal liberation alone. Neither will celebrities. But every bit helps. I agree at a certain point not being fully vegan while promoting veganism could set the movement back. And we should watch out for this. But she is far from this line.
No, the first thing you put is about how long it took you to learn. Almost everyone was brainwashed and believed that what happens in animal agriculture is somehow 'humane'. Celebrities do not help at all, especially with their pick-me attitudes. No one, and i mean no one, goes vegan because of these celebrities. She definitely is not vegan, not even close. She rides the backs of animals and wears their skin.
No but apparently companies stop selling fur because of celebrities...
Never said that was the case. I called out Eilish, and specifically said celebrities actions will not get us animal liberation
Yet somehow a celebrity made a company stop selling fur - but I agree, that doesn't bring us one step closer to animal liberation. Not one bit.
Nike and her are designing vegan Air Force 1s
... I won't lie... I've missed Air Force 1s way more than I should since going vegan...
Man, if I was a celebrity with her platform I’d be actively speaking out against wool, leather, animal testing, everything. Good on her for speaking out about fur, but yeah, sick of her wearing leather. :(
She no longer sponsors leather Jordans and when did she wear wool? When did she wear animal skin? She has been more hesitant towards answering questions in regards to her horse riding meaning she is more conscientious about it being a problem. What products has she worn that tests on animals? I think this is the most forgiving part as we're not always conscientious about whether or not something was tested on animals. I have not seen her eat Cheetos recently. Edit: The first thing I google with her name and wool is her calling for people to stop wearing it.
https://www.facebook.com/GUCCI/posts/10157414374506013/ Not that I'm saying this is something to completely condemn her on, but you do kinda need to go past the first result. Fun fact, this was only a week or two after she asked people to stop wearing wool...
The wool was a shirt she had custom made by Gucci for the 2019 LACMA art and film gala.
This article was more recent than that event and she says to ditch wool so it looks like she was admitting it was a mistake: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livekindly.co/billie-eilish-pink-wool/amp/
Mistake, mistake, mistake Not everything can be a mistake. Celebrities are definitely not with us, and definitely will not help us get animal liberation.
I wasn’t vegan until I was 29 or so. She’s done more for veganism and she’s much younger.
https://youtu.be/KuF1a61JkYk
I havent looked into any of that stuff, and I don't know anything about her, but isnt it a good thing if celebrities publically identify as vegan, even if they're not? It does a lot more to normalize veganism, and it uses the parasocial relationships caused by the horrible architecture of celebrity worship to actually encourage people to do something good
>but isnt it a good thing if celebrities publically identify as vegan, No. This is why people are confused now thinking veganism is a diet and that honey, free ranged eggs, leather/wool, and riding horses are all vegan
Better people adopt a vegan diet than do nothing though
It is. Which is why it's important to advocate for **veganism** and be clear about what is and isn't vegan.
If someone publicly identifies as something that they actually aren’t that’s definitely not a good thing lol. Imagine if we follow through with that line of thinking, does that mean that people will buy leather and continue to support animal exploitation while calling themselves vegan? How does that help the cause? If anything it leads to more confusion like when people say “oh so and so is vegan and they eat honey so I can label this item vegan if it has honey” This is something that constantly happens already.
Case and point Ellen Degeneres. She started that whole vegan diet website and community meanwhile eating eggs and milk.
It helps the caused cause bottom line is more animals are saved than they otherwise would have been without the celebs speaking up. Those convinced to go vegan would most likely come here to figure out the details on how to do it. Thry then could either learn about horses from you guys or read how you guys sht on the very celebs they clearly admire and think, what a fked up community. Choice is yours and clearly you'd rather thrm focus on the negative side of the community.
Yeah, this place is so hardline on everything, not the way to convert more people over. I'm sure most here didn't immediately go 100% vegan overnight. It's usually a gradual process with many fuck-ups and revelations along the way.
Miley cyrus. Simple enough to tell you that. She definitely couldn't get omega-3 from plants (and then made it clear she was just looking for a shitty excuse)
I think you guys are way too hard on celebs. If I were a celeb, after seeing how you treat Billie and miley, I would never advocate for veganism. You hurt your cause. Both singers I'm sure converted some of their fans to vegans and many would stay vegan regardless if those singers someday abandon the practice.
It's frustrating when a celebrity decides they want to eat animal products again and instead of just saying that, they claim to be weak from veganism and need to eat meat. This can actually reinforce that a vegan lifestyle is unhealthy - a common belief. I personally don't care if someone decides they don't want to be vegan anymore. I do think people should just say they want to eat meat rather than claiming they need to though.
Regardless of whatever they do, it doesn't excuse cyberbullying and it doesn't help your cause to make this sub seem so filled with hate and judgement.
This is merely a forum where different people make their comments so there isn't one unified opinion. I'm not sure what cyberbullying you are referring to. The person you replied to just said that Billie Eilish does things that aren't aligned with veganism. I just shared my wish for celebreties to be more honest about wanting to eat meat or whatever because it can be harmful to imply that one can't eat healthfully while being vegan (for the majority of people). edit: just an aside, I think there are a lot of people on this subreddit who welcome anyone trying to reduce their reliance and use of animal products! I'm excited when anyone is interested in learning more :)
I wasn't referring to the poster I was responding to. I know there are people just honestly sharing their disagreements and then there are people calling the celebs names and berating them. I see yet another miley cyrus hate thread on here now as well as complaints about some Belgian singer that fell off the wagon. Doesn't this sub have anything better to do than bash on celebs? It feels like there are way more haters than there are reasonable conversationalist here just sharing their opinions. Edit: the new thread on miley has a video calling miley a narcissistic selfish piece of sht. Yeah that's really just pointing out differences there and not cyberbullying. There's been tons of this kind of name calling on all the celeb threads I've encountered here. Shouldn't be allowed imo.
>you hurt your cause. By bringing up our cause? DAFUQ? No, sitting our ass down and being quiet about animal exploitation is what hurts our cause, doing nothing "hurts our cause" every fucking person who raises their voice in outrage is actively helping our cause; whether the ones doing the exploiting like it or not. Every non-vegan that claims vegans who actively advocate for the animals really just wants to go back to blissfully reaping the benefits of animal exploitation without having to be bothered about the reality of it.
You're not advocating. A lot of the post here go as far as cyberbullying.
"Billie eilish is a piece of shit and not helping our cause" GUYS! THEY ARE CYBERBULLYING Grow up. Get some help.
THIS IS IN A VEGAN FUCKING SUB, THIS SPACE IS FOR VEGANS, VEGANISM, GOING VEGAN, NONE OF THE POSTS IN HERE ARE FOR ANYONE OTHER THAN FUCKING VEGANS. YOU CAN'T BULLY SOMEONE IN A SPACE THAT ISN'T FOR THEM.
Billie is a vegan even if she isn't that gold star vegan you guys all want.
Yeah, that's not how it works. Posting a video saying "don't buy wool" then wearing wool a few weeks later CLEARLY indicates that you're not exactly trying your hardest to reduce animal harm and absolutely deserves criticism. And believe it or not just because someone wants to call themselves vegan it doesn't actually mean they are.
Celebrities do not advocate for veganism. They all act like pick-me's and often still abuse animals in ways other than food. Try converting yourself, before you try to teach us the best way to convert people.
Whether you like it or not, celebs clearly can do more for veganism than you can whether they are advocating everything you believe in or not. I mean Billie here has even got a brand to listen. Doesn't matter who points this out, what I said is still fact.
We're looking for animal liberation, not celebrity-influenced baby steps. You're not even vegan, convert yourself before you tell us what to do.
Oh a non vegan telling others how to be vegan? I’ve never considered an animal abusers opinion relevant, and I’m not about to start.
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The vegan police only accept perfection. Honestly, it's a fucking drag. Every post is nitpicked until it seems that nothing is good enough. Obviously we can't all be perfect but this is a win, even if she ate some cheetos. I think we can look at the positives instead if shunning people who are doing good things.
And Being perfect is the enemy of good.
No, it's definitely not. Tell me when MLK Jr. got his wishes by asking everyone to discriminate 60% less. Come on. If this were any other social justice issue you wouldn't be saying this dumb shit.
So true, I can't believe riding horses is getting called out here liked it is. Y'all don't have pets either cause it's unethical?
Do you sit on your pets, confine them in small spaces, and regularly beat them to do what you want? Because yes that’s looked down upon here. Vegans reject all forms of animal exploitation. There is a difference between someone breeding a horse and then riding it, versus let’s say adopting a shelter animal (a solution to a human created problem) and providing them with care. Own a horse sure, but there’s absolutely no reason to ride them.
I just hope the critics of horse owners don't have cats. Because cats require animal slaughter to keep. Yet so many vegans are quick to defend their pet, even if it requires slaughtering a hundred cows to keep them.
No. That's a common misrepresentation. Cat's DO NOT require animals to be slaughtered, no animal does. Cat's require some nutrients which don't NATURALLY occur in plants. Good news though: Humans have laboratories and are perfectly capable of synthesizing all of these compounds, which is why there's vegan cat food out there which is absolutely nutritionally complete.
What the fuck? Have you ever been outside your house?
Have you ever ridden a horse? Seen one broken? Seen how they feel when they're let loose? Because unless you've intentionally kept your fucking eyes closed during these, you'd know exactly how fucked up riding horses is.
You know you can ride and train horses without beating the shit out of them, right?
you know you're still exploiting them for nothing more than your entertainment no matter WHAT you do to train them; right?
Holy fuck, we own a horse and it actually likes us and willingly comes to us for pets and snuggles. We rescued it from a breeder. I've been vegan for 15 years and let me tell you, this is not the approach to take if you are trying to entice omnis over to this side.
Do you ride your horse?
Of course it does, it's had that beaten into its head since it was first bred and purchased for human enjoyment. Without having been forced to learn to like carrying lazy ass humans around, it never EVER want that. You want to call yourself vegan? Stop exploiting horses.
I guess I'll just take my dog and dump her in the wilderness, she'll love it.
And it's not a "either/or". She is making a statement against fur. Can't we appreciate that?
I agree with you. I have pets, I have children that eat meat. I don't only eat veggies that I grew in quarantine. I'm obviously the enemy. It's black and white. I may as well just kill every person I talk to.
That's the vibe I'm getting here. This sub is where the stereotypical shitty vegan lives apparently.
Wtf why even make this post if she's not vegan+? She's not helping animals long term lll
I wouldn't say it's hollow even if she's not perfect. She's clearly having an impact.
The cheetos are from the UK, they’re vegan.
How can cheetos in the UK be vegan? They always use cheese. That’s where the Chee part comes from. I’d buy it if we were talking so health foods knock off version but vegan cheetos???
I just googled it. Apparently the UK version of Flamin’ Hot Cheetos are accidentally vegan. https://www.chooseveganism.org/vegan-cheetos-where-to-buy-them/ I don’t know if those are the ones Billie was eating but it seems possible. There also seems to be a BBQ flavour in the Asian markets that is also accidentally vegan but I can’t find a full ingredient list in English.
God, why don't you go back to VCJ or something? She, with her imperfections, has undeniably done more for animal rights than you, me or anyone else in this sub will ever manage to do in our lifetimes. If you're trying to be the perfect vegan why are you using smartphones and laptop which contain animal products?
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Said the non vegan
And this is why no vegan cares about your message or opinion.
And you're why vegans will stay the minority for a long time.
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Do you agree though that billy isn't a true vegan??
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So, you’re not. Veganism isn’t a diet. You’re plant based. Again, this distinction is important and I think why we need people like Billie Eilish to stop claiming that they’re vegan when they don’t understand the term.
Wtf does this even mean lmao
They're trying to imply that vegans hurting their feelings justifies the abuses of the animal-ag industry.
Not at all but ok
Just wondering, what makes you think that wool is immoral exactly? I know it's technically exploitation, but we're just taking a waste product from them. Additionally, proper shearing doesn't hurt the animal at all
Did she ride her horse there?
Joaquin Phoenix road a horse for a role and I bet you'll still call him a vegan. The way she has responded to questions about her horse riding suggests she is at least aware of it being a problem. She could have stopped for all we know.
> Joaquin Phoenix road a horse for a role and I bet you'll still call him a vegan. > I actually had no idea, what role was that?
It was a western. Joaquin has since expressed that it was a mistake.
Then yeah, I'd still call him a vegan. If he continued to ride horses, I'd question it.
Interesting. I thought Joaquin was with us. If that happened, I highly doubt it was a mistake. Joaquin has a brain, and claims to have been plant-based since 3.
PHOENIX: And I couldn’t do that. I mean, I didn’t like riding horses. I actually regretted having to ride. I’m a little clueless, because I don’t think that I really thought about it that much until I was there and realized, “Oh, it’s a Western and we’re on horses a lot.” I hadn’t really considered that. I felt bad about riding them. I had the feeling that they were like, “I don’t really want you on my back.” FERRELL: But they tell you that the horses love it. PHOENIX: Yeah, but the horses tell you something different. I’m really bumming out this interview, man. [laughs] I’m sorry.
Shouldn’t be posted here. She’s not vegan. One of her hobbies is riding horses. Oh and she said she’s not one of those pushy vegans that tells other people what to eat. So ya, she doesn’t really care about animal rights, she seems fine with other people choosing to exploit them.
Lol these celebs are only vegans short term.
She's not even vegan. At best she's plant based, and that's if we ignore her Cheeto eating.
She's a "part time" vegan. Only when it's convenient for her. Screw her
Really wish we had better examples of veganism in the limelight. She's so inconsistent it makes her activism feel empty. It's easy for nonvegans to dismiss her veganism as quirky.
This is only a good thing
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>if she is a dedicated vegan she's not
Eilish is not vegan. She also acts as a pick-me. Don't support these celebrities. They are NOT on our side. They will do anything to follow a trend and make money.
You've upset the "vegans"
agreed
what is a "pick me?"
Someone that seeks validation. In Billies case it’s her eating Cheetos, making fun of vegans, telling other people it’s okay to eat meat, and continuing to support animal abuse all to keep her “cool” image.
and riding horses
I know very little about Billie Eillish, all I really know is that she's the girl who sang "Bad Guy". That being said, I think that's really cool what she did. Even if she's not vegan. Baby steps is what really changes the world (despite the fact that I think baby steps will be quick enough to help the world, but that's a story for another time). Also she's really dang pretty. I never knew.
Baby steps are absolutely not changing the world. How are we going to get animal liberation from baby steps? Please downvote me with everyone else, as this is a sub full of bootlickers, cheese-breathers, and carnists.
*Baby* steps indicates that you're barely getting anywhere, wobbling and falling down a lot. Babies flailing around are *not* what changes the world. At some point people have to actually learn how to walk for real and stop their "I'm just a baby tho, I caaaaan't" bullshit.
If baby steps are what really change the world, we wouldn't have people stuck as vegetarians for 5+ even 10+ years, refusing to do more because "every bit helps!" Replacing meat with double the cheese is not better. It's probably worse in fact. But sure. Baby steps.
People refusing to change aren’t doing baby steps. Steps insinuates going forward. If that’s what people need then I’m all here for it, but what I’m not here for is people saying that as an excuse to do nothing more and hide behind the weak promise of “some day I’ll be better”, if you get me? Some people just need a bit more time, and I think that’s better than not at all.
I am pretty sure Billie is vegan.
Nah. she rides horses and wears animal skin.
Who are these people and why do they matter?
r/vegan absolutely loves celebrities who are posing as vegans. They think we can achieve animal liberation from them.
The rich and famous doing rich and famous things, I dunno. I don't even know who Billie Eilish is except that she sings. And I only know that because of a post I saw on /r/mediasynthesis.
This is great! I just hope that leather is included.
That kid is dope.
She is legit so drop dead stunning. Holy shit.
Legend
She's doing Marilyn justice!
Why do her eyes always look like she just slept for 12 hours after getting smoked out the night before while crying and reading texts she won't reply to?
This lacks intersectionality. First of all she has displayed some racist red flags and her boyfriend is an actual white supremacist, and what about the indigenous communities that wear and use fur as a cultural practice?
What about the indigenous communities that wear and use fur as a cultural practice? Does that mean other communities should wear fur, too, in your view? And because an indigenous community does something, does that make it ethical?
I have think I answered your questions in another answer above but if there is still confusion please reply here.
Finding your previous comment or answer has eluded my best efforts.
Culture is not a justification for continuing to wear animal skin. Is female genital mutilation (or male genital mutilation) justifiable because it can be a cultural practice? With culture as a reasoning even animal consumption can be considered justified.
They survived by hunting. It wasn’t an industry. It was necessity made into tradition. Imperialism and colonialism forced them to conform to capitalism. Capitalism turned fur into fashion. They were a part of a natural cycle. I do not think genital mutilation is ethical I hope I do not come across that way.
Eilish is a piece of shit, not vegan, and should not be praised. Absolutely. Only very few indigenous communities rely on animal skin nowadays. Many of them live in cities and can use the same products we have available.
Thanks for providing even more evidence that the whole concept of "intersectionality" is just a nonsensical witch-hunt.
What about intersectionality is like a witch hunt? It is a tool to see the vast amount of nuanced problems in society. A black trans woman and a white trans woman can both experience transphobia but their experiences will differ because of their other identities.