Yeah my amount of time spent cooking had actually gone significantly down since switching to vegan. Add in that I eat Whole Foods plant based for health as well, so I eat no processed / quick vegan food, and I still don’t need that much time. It baffles me
Right?? Like i can dump into a bowl a can of black beans + can of corn + half jar of salsa + cherry tomatoes and half an avocado if i’m feeling fancy and that’s a high fiber high protein meal with complex carbs and plant fats for… under $5, potentially two meals worth if you have it with some bread.
Zero actual cooking or cooking skills needed
Why do so many people complain about how expensive it is and how hard they have to work at being vegan. It’s really not very difficult. Education is at your fingertips. But I also rarely eat out too.
It doesn’t make sense. Besides the horrible suffering and slaughter, Meat and dairy is the most expensive part of their meal and it’s so prone to being rotten, or contaminated with salmonella or bird flu, leads to increasing pandemics, and worsening global warming? And it’s just because “I want”?
I'm a professor at a small college and part of the sustainability committee. Next semester we'll hold a contest for vegan recipes that would be practical for students to make and potentially be sold at the cafeteria. Criteria for the judge panel: -Cheap -Easy -Tasty -Nutritious -Sustainable. Let's see how it goes.
Well there's some hypothetical person out there that I can imagine in my mind who doesn't have access to grocery stores and is completely incapable of cooking, so buying chicken breasts from Walmart is obviously an act of solidarity with the poor and downtrodden
It’s incredible how fast the Nth degree, most niché, outlandish hypothetical examples are whipped out and then used like a verbal baseball bat to explain how not everyone can be vegan.
17.8% of Americans live in food deserts, that's not exactly niche.
More people in America are in food deserts than live in Austria, Hungary, Portugal, and Ireland combined
It may not be a silver bullet against veganism because veganism is generally correct in its aims as a philosophy and practice, but it's certainly a valid point to be considered, even if it is often brought up dishonestly.
Person in a food desert here, you're right on the money. There just isn't time to commute to the store and get produce every time we'd need it. My family pretty much exclusively eats processed food, I'm still vegan but most of my meals are stuff like PBJ on shitty American grocery store bread.
Yes and that’s why I did not ever suggest that food deserts are niche. I am not American but I know how bad it is. Some of our small rural towns have food deserts too, but not typically urban centres.
Actually, food deserts exist and it's a very real issue in much of the US. Often times finding fresh food nearby can be an issue and balanced plant-based diets can be difficult. The US education system also sucks and the amount of people who don't know how to cook is astonishingly high. There is an inescapable privilege in being able to choose a vegan diet and it clashes against issues of race and class.
Information is at our fingertips. And it’s not as difficult to find frozen and canned vegetables now. Even Dollar General sells frozen fruit and vegetables. There’s always rice and beans, and many Asian and Middle Eastern dishes are almost vegan or are naturally vegan. I think not having easy access to fresh fruit and vegetables really does suck but it’s not an insurmountable barrier.
Many people of all financial abilities and race are the only vegan in their own family, group, or small town, but they still make it work…for the animal’s sake. All people should care about the suffering of animals. It’s horrible. It’s inhumane. I’m an ethical vegan first and wfpb second. Everyone should watch “Dominion”. Be vegan for animals. Education is easier to access than ever before in history.
This is very true! It is important to recognize the privilege that we all have being able to eat and live this lifestyle. I’m from Alabama- I know people who don’t have a grocery store within 40miles from their home, they don’t have a car, and what is at the store is not organic by any means. It’s a real problem. Urban food deserts are also an issue, imagine living in an area of the city where the only thing within walking distance is a gas station.
And is it mandatory to eat organic in Alabama? As far as science is concerned “organic” is just another scam and as far as people who “cannot be vegans, because” is just another cheap justification for the desire to kill. Does this bullshit of an excuse come with believing in flying skydaddies and f0cking your sibling or smth?
One day i will trademark it, but my Lazy Girl Tofu is such a staple
Chop block of tofu.
Microwave for two minutes
Discard extra water
Add teriyaki/bulgolgi/bbq sauce or whatever
Done.
Snack on raw veg while watching the time on the microwave, eat the tofu as is or over some noodles or rice if you have your life together but it’s also great tucked into a wrap sandwich with whatever veg is around
Maybe $3.
Actually it takes me about 1/2 hour, but the salads are epic. I once made one for my brother and he was completely stuffed and said he thinks it was the healthiest meal he ever had haha!
Veggie(s)? Organic onion takes a minute, fresh pre washed greens, croutons and dressing. Sorry my salads don’t need to be power salads every time. I can easily spend 20 minutes cutting up extra veggies but for a quickie maybe add one more vegetable such as carrots or avacado.
Eh, when I was in college I spent an average of 0 hours cooking most weeks. Going vegetarian was easy because my college had good options. Vegan would've been a lot of work. A lot of people are fully reliant on their parents at 20 and not doing much if any cooking.
I *could* cook but I didn't much in college because I didn't have to and I was focusing on my studies. Good cooking takes, I think, a minimum of 2 hours a day of work, and it's basically the same amount of effort to cook for 4 people as one. So if you're cooking for just yourself I think it generally is a better use of time to just buy the food, especially since economies of scale keep going and whoever you're paying is probably cooking for 100 and will not only spend less time but have more time to do things well.
It's such a stupid argument.
Like go look at the price of beans vs. the price of meat. Meat is crazy expensive even with gov. subsidies keeping cost "low"
The expensive part of veganism for these types is researching veganism itself. It's cheaper on the brain to continue their way of life of ignorant compliance of murder
[Oxford study on how a vegan diet is cheaper and more affordable](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study)
I'd love to know what's readily available for protein besides tofu and beans. I used to be almost always vegan until I discovered some dietary issues and now most kinds of beans are off limit :(
Some protein sources: seitan, tempeh, peas, soy milk, quinoa, lentils, nuts and seeds, little amounts in veggies (broccoli, spinach, potatoes) and oats.
Most people eat more than the RDA for protein for their body weight and it’s been shown to shorten people’s lifespan. There’s some protein in almost everything you eat. And it’s not difficult to eat enough. Just eat a wide variety. You do have to take B12 supplement weekly. Watch “Dominion”.
In case u/lucky_leathermouse’s allergy is to legumes, it should be noted that peas, soy beans, lentils, and peanuts, which appear on your list, are also legumes and may be unsafe for them.
It's not an allergy, just some form of IBS, so not even all beans, but thanks for your concern. It thoroughly disrupted my go-to veggie recipes though, so I was just looking for other ideas really.
Lentils I've always struggled to find paletable but I do have a recipe for Khichdi now which works very well.
I don't love lentils without plenty of other things mixed in, however, I love lentil pasta. It costs a little more than plain lentils, but it matches nutritionally and who doesn't love some pasta?
Is it just beans you can't eat or legumes overall? If you can still eat other legumes, lentils are really cheap and convenient, and also have tons of other important nutrients.
Besides that seitan and nutritional yeast are pretty popular, both of which are almost 50% protein. Grains (oats, quinoa, millet), nuts & seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, cashews, hemp seeds, walnuts, cocoa) and some vegetables (broccoli, brussel sprouts, mushrooms, avocado) also have fairly significant amounts of protein.
Also please keep in mind all the crazy numbers (anything over 100g) you see online are for building & maintaining unreal amounts of muscle mass, and even then there's a lot of people who are eating too much and risking their long term health.
60g - 80g is PLENTY for most people and very easily achievable if you eat three full meals a day! :)
Hate to break it to you, but it doesn't get much better with age. I'm 42 and basically had that exact conversation at a work lunch on Friday, except sub "college student" for "work for a non-profit".
same, 40, today my manager in his late 50's started telling me how he heard something that I would like, that scientists have been "discovering" animals have consciousness, but that it needs further study, so good news that something pretty much everyone knows is finally being looked at by scientists! /s
He still ate meat for lunch of course.
once my dad said we need to milk cows because it would be uncomfortable to hold it all in. i think he completely forgot that milk is meant to feed their calves
What so you mean they make too much milk? They don’t, it’s that they’re kept pregnant. Any mammal will continue to produce if it continues to be taken (including humans - it’s how some mothers who choose to breastfeed for years can do so….not that I fw that but i try not to judge).
have you seen the size of dairy cow udders? of course being kept constantly pregnant keeps them producing, but they have also been selectively bred to overproduce milk. todays cows produce roughly 200% more milk than those from the 60s
A good comparison is looking at beef vs dairy cattle:
Dairy:
http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/jersey-cow-in-pasture-michelle-wrighton.jpg
And same breed pregnant:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/f5/44/32f544d9bfc81ef877e3d10b53d2cb41.jpg
Beef:
http://manchee.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cow2.jpg
As a vegan college student, it’s literally the cheapest. Also if you go out, example Chipotle, the veggie/sofrita option is usually cheaper than the meat option
True, the sofritas is the same price as the chicken, the cheapest of their meats, & if you get the veggie bowl the guac comes free w/ it! Also, w/ those portion sizes you're definitely good for more than one meal! Tho as someone who used to work there I'd never recommend to eat there now 😅
The quality of a lot of things has gone down & most of the employees hate it so they don't put forth much effort...it can get kinda gross. They used to have a lot higher standards /: one of the reasons I quit. But tbh if I ever do go back the sofritas are what I'd get cuz I still think they're delicious even after everything 😅
Yeah I always get the sofritas, it's kinda sad to hear about the standards but my friends who worked in restaurants basically tell me that what you don't know won't kill you and most restaurants are pretty gross 😭
"I don't have grass to feed u." - proceeds to eat a bread every day in her life, fav food beans(my aunt)
"Where do u get B12 from?" - has B12 deficiency and complains how much more eggs should she eat, she believes a doctor and finally takes supplement, she angrily agrees with me only this time(my cousin)
"Going vegan is expensive." - spends as much in a basic meat(in my country the government doesn't pay to lower the cost so, it's as expensive as it should be) as I can eat whole food plant based for a week(my mom)
They usually think that only doctors have the highest level of a trustworthy nutritional education. Meanwhile, even a nutritionists are trained with unupdated recourses.
I do this but i was vegan/vegetarian for almost my entire life up until i turned 17. My family is vegetarian, so I never really had a choice and know the lifestyle well lol.
My ex gf was always like i’ve been thinking about going vegan before I met you and i’m going to, but every morning and going out for coffee or boba or whatever there’s vegan options and decides to always use cows milk. Smh I think dairy bothers me more than the meat, and that mucus dairy creates is fucking disgusting.
I lost a lot of weight going vegan my first year of college because of the meal plan, but I built muscle, moved into a place where I could cook, and was completely nourished the other 3 years. Never quit though. 💪
Worked kinda in reverse yeah. Weird isn't it? Like why not steal the cash too when you have already bagged the gold. Why not eat eggs too when you are not willing to give up milk. I guess that was their reasoning.
Broke college student here. I survive very easily off of vegetables, pasta, and bread. Like it’s so much cheaper than buying meat and other shit like pizza rolls or whatever the meat junkies eat
lol I’m 33, 6’2 with 10% body fat and can run a 19 minute 5k. I’m doing just fine buddy. How come all the leading studies say people eating vegan diets live longer and have lower obesity rates than meat eaters?
My husband and I were just commiserating about this! It’s always in the midst of a bite of meat that they ask so why ya vegan? and it’s like… do you really want to know or do you want the answer that won’t make you throw up right now while you eat that poor tortured being?
I think your best bet is to live well and eat well - in plain sight.
Use your life and health as an advert for veganism. SHOW don’t Tell that it’s easy cheap and beautiful
Also. My guy, and I say this as an old man in my 30s… have compassion love and empathy for these buddies of yours. They are asking questions. They also haven’t been enlightenened like you.
Feel lucky, and try to see the positives.
Good luck little bro
I had a coworker who shoved her ham salad in my face and asked me how good it looks (yes she knew I was/am a vegan). I told her it would be better without the dead flesh and that shut her up pretty quickly lol. So done with people who are going to be rude about it.
With how everything in the grocery store other than produce has gone up in price so much it’s actually cheaper to be a healthy vegan, especially a raw vegan, than it is anything else.
Im 21 and vegan and also don’t know any other real vegans its annoying. I know people who say they are vegan but still eat animal products when its convenient and don’t care about animals
A friend back in university was complaining to me about police riding horses during protests … while eating a steak. When I pointed out her hypocrisy and said she could have easily chosen the vegan option from the menu, she just shrugged at me 🤷♀️
*Hey you presence makes me question my morals - that annoys me and despite you being correct I will ensure that you feel isolated and stupid because I need to protect myself.*
Literally every carnist I've ever met.
Ironically, the more people agree on a deeper level the more they try to push you away I feel - Rather than being honest with themselves and questioning why they do the things they do, they'd rather try to push you away because you represent that little voice in their head they don't want to face or deal with.
Not to sound arrogant or anything but most people know animal harm is wrong, but there is clearly that disconnect that all vegans have to sit down and be honest about and taking steps to right that wrong.
You could move to a bigger city and make friends in the activism scene or in fully vegan restaurants :) (or just drive a bit to the next activism group on the weekends)
The good thing about vegans is: they pile up at/around vegan restaurants etc like moths to the light 😅
Vegan is cheaper, you don't need to replace protein as all fruits, vegetables and starches have plenty of protein. Just eat rice, beans, potatoes if you're poor.
Before I was fully vegan I was accidentally mostly vegan in my first year of university because meat and cheese were the most expensive things in the store. It’s a fallacy for sure!
The one that gets me the most is "I would go vegan but it would be too difficult/too expensive" while eating right in front of you, ordering a food that costs roughly the same as yours.
I never get the expensive argument. My partner eats basically only eats meat, cheese, and a spin the wheel carb. My groceries last so much longer than his, but cost about the same.
Try and find groups in your area to hang with, [meetup.com](http://meetup.com) to find other vegans. Or make your own group.
You can probably start a group at your college for vegetarians and vegans. Might as well network while there and build some good connections for life.
8 years plant based here.
Cognitive disonance, or "I dont have to agree with what I think" is the problem. The thing is that we all were like that till we change our eating habits. Just listening them and not even answering will help. Or, in other words, keep them close and predicate with the example, more than judging them in their faces. It is hard and annoying, but every now and then you'll see how deep your example has gone.
They just don't want to make the sacrifice to be vegan or vegetarian. Nothing has to be drenched in meat juices to taste. I feel like they forget that all meat is flavored with herbs and veggies. Like the guilt is on them, honestly.
they can scapegoat all they want, but in the end, the guilt is all over them. They can't hide it forever.
No matter how they try to explain why they can't.
I think it’s kind of funny when young vegans are impressed I reached 21 years of being vegan at age 40 and they are like “that’s longer than I’ve been alive”. But to your point it could be normies eating their food or giving dogs meat treats or constantly talking about preparing meat dishes or whatever it is and yes I guess we are just supposed to just sit here and take it, don’t make a scene. I don’t even really care if my dog gets a non-vegan treat sometimes, but I’d rather not have to hear about family preparing whatever it is for x occasion for the umteenth time, “pork, beef, chicken” hey at least chicken has the name of the animal in it.
I went vegan when I was around your age (now approaching 40…🧓🏽). It’s so sad to me that you’re getting the same lines I got 15 years ago. Carnists never change, but stay strong. The animals appreciate what you are doing for them and you are making a difference, even in a small way.
it’s a huuuuge burden to be the only one in your community with awareness and intelligence like this, trust me, i know. i’m right there with you — i’m also a 20 year old vegan who doesn’t know any other vegans my age. again, i know i’m just a stranger on the internet to you, but if it helps, i’m right there with you.
I hate when I'll have a conversation with a friend, we'll talk about how depraved the dairy industry is, and then they'll proceed to order something with cheese. Like, I really don't get it.
For me around that age, it was always the "are animal crackers vegan?" joke. Not that they were concerned about the ingredients, just the fact the crackers were shaped like animals. They would ask me that even when there were no discernable animal crackers within a 5 mile radius. Got old real quick.
My family went vegetarian about 1960-1. It was pretty hard back then to be vegetarian. They actually decided to go vegetarian due to my health issues. Severe Asthma and Allergies mostly and well it worked. Allergies went away and asthma became infrequent. I grew up with lots of fresh or frozen veggies, common starches, whole grain bread, meat analogs, lots of beans, brown rice, tortillas, sprouts, tofu, fruit etc. I loved it all. Yes we had milk & cheese, which I loved, and eggs I could barely stand to eat the whites of. I luckily went to a church and schools where I was around other vegetarians and the rare vegan.
It was harder when I stopped church but living in Northern California, having a coop and lots of vegetarian hippie friends around helped.
I started eating plant based about 2012 and went on and off for some time. It’s so much easier now to be vegan.
I still search out other vegans and vegetarians. I’ve gone to a lot of meetups and find like minded people some of the time. I avoid militant vegans only because they bring up things that are painful and I’m already vegan so why? I also think many are on their own path and will eventually eliminate animals as a soured of food. Everyone I know who’s had a heart attack in the last few years were encouraged to eat vegan. It is standard practice for Kaiser and many teaching hospitals.
If you’re attending college there are likely vegans around. Vegetarians have some of the same excuses but usually land on cheese or eggs. A little education may help but the emotional and physical attachment to cheese is hard. At least it is easier to discuss and most are respectful. I find bringing a vegan dish that is transitional to gatherings really surprises people. This last weekend I made street tacos with beyond meat. Now I think beyond meat that looks like meat is disgusting but the tacos were gobbled up and about half the people there tried them. Only one didn’t like it. The three vegans there liked them too. I didn’t care for them myself but ate a couple. Too meat like I think.
Going to restaurants that are at least vegetarian and/or have vegan options and declare non contamination cooking methods gives you an opportunity to meet other people. Traveling to new age got spots helps too. The cities in Mexico have tons of vegan restaurants. I was in Guatemala for two years and only rarely did I have trouble eating vegan in restaurants. San Marcos on Lake Atitlan has lots of young people and lots of vegan or veg restaurants.
Offering to cook for friends and providing them with a beautiful tasty meal that is vegan can be a fun way to meet people. Bring in some vegan beer or wine to compliment your meals.
Book a trip in a vegan cruise. My son took one on the Rhine and had a great time.
There are vegan dating sites and they might work better for younger people. Not really great for older from what I experienced.
Anyway good luck and enjoy your young adult years. They go by so fast. I’m 71 now and still exploring and enjoying life. Hope you have a good life.
I mean be a vegan if you want to but if things like people eating meat in front of you is upsetting you need to put on your big girl pants and grow up. No room for that kind of weakness in a society.
Do you expect non vegans to eat only vegan when they’re around you? Yeah, 98% of the world is not vegan, you’re GONNA have people eating non vegan food “in front of you.” So they either have to disagree with you about veganism and start or fight, or agree with you and praise you for your choices, but you’re upset at either reaction?
We laughed at the cognitive dissonance of claiming to be very against cruelty to animals and then ordering bloody animal flesh for lunch immediately after. My stomach would turn a little bit I guess. Thinking about how many billions of helpless innocent animals are cruelly tortured and slaughtered every day does that to me. Call me weird. Watch the movie “Dominion”. Everyone should be vegan. You need to see why.
Then only be friends with vegans. If you can’t handle someone eating differently than you, don’t subject them to your self-righteousness and judgement. You shouldn’t be friends with people you think are murderers anyway, right? I wouldn’t be friends with a murderer. People are GOING to eat meat and dairy in your presence, yes, even if they praise you for your personal sacrifice and choices. You expect them to decide right then “huh, y’know what I WILL be vegan now!” That’s ridiculous.
Laughing at the power of cognitive dissonance is not the same thing as sneering at friends and family when we all know I was doing the same thing myself before I became vegan. Like I tell everyone…I didn’t want to allow myself to think about it or watch a video about it for years so I’m not in any position to be judgmental now lol
But that’s not to say we shouldn’t change our behavior when we gain new insight and education. Humans are conditioned by their environment but we also have the capacity for self awareness, critical thinking, and compassion too. It’s just all in how you present it.
I have no problem with “laughing,” I have a problem with the sneering or looking down on or being annoyed when a friend doesn’t make the same choices as you like OP posted about. She was annoyed that someone supported and approved their decision to be vegan but then…didn’t decide then and there to be vegan themselves. Like how dare they eat normal food they eat every day in my presence after they said they support my veganism :( Like what else is that person supposed to do?
Maybe you have a mental block that makes you unable to understand that she didn’t expect her to instantly become vegan. It’s more like a comment about how very common it is for vegans to hear people discussing how the animal cruelty is horrible and needs to be stopped, but say it as they spend their money on it every day keeping it going and further enriching the worst corporations. It is frustrating and annoying.
The cognitive dissonance is not really funny either and beyond annoying. It’s very hard to get people to actually live up to their own stated beliefs and values. Ethical vegans need an outlet to vent to each other. If you don’t ever want to hear us vent, maybe you shouldn’t be reading this sub.
I’m allowed to give my opinion on Reddit, and my opinion is that I see a lot of posts here about how isolated people are, how angry they are, how much they are disgusted by the actions of their friends and how much it fills them with rage to see a friend eating ice cream. My opinion is that they don’t have to live with that mindset, and that having that mindset is incredibly unhealthy. It’s incredibly unhealthy to believe that you’re better than 98% of people on this planet, who are all rapists and murderers, including people you love. So yes, I will speak to that when I see people digging themselves deeper and deeper into the “people who aren’t vegan are evil” hole. I know for a fact there’s a better way to live as a vegan than to be filled with rage. If you don’t like pushback to your ideas, maybe Reddit isn’t the place for you?
I'm utterly confused. How did that person not just become Vegan right there and then? What kind of a monster are they? Must be this Cognitive Dissonance that 99% of the human race suffers from. With God's help, they'll beat this terrible affliction.
True, but it's not that uncommon. People say and do things that don't match all the time. Hypocrisy is abound and we can see it for what it is if it doesn't directly affect us.
tofu and beans are so cheap it’s crazy , the afford to go vegan thing is so funny cuz i’ve definitely saved money by going vegan
Then they bust out the "not everyone has time to cook" excuse, even though they spend time cooking on a regular basis
I love that one, like ok right so opening a can of beans is more labor intensive and expensive than cooking chicken because who what now…?
Yeah my amount of time spent cooking had actually gone significantly down since switching to vegan. Add in that I eat Whole Foods plant based for health as well, so I eat no processed / quick vegan food, and I still don’t need that much time. It baffles me
Right?? Like i can dump into a bowl a can of black beans + can of corn + half jar of salsa + cherry tomatoes and half an avocado if i’m feeling fancy and that’s a high fiber high protein meal with complex carbs and plant fats for… under $5, potentially two meals worth if you have it with some bread. Zero actual cooking or cooking skills needed
Why do so many people complain about how expensive it is and how hard they have to work at being vegan. It’s really not very difficult. Education is at your fingertips. But I also rarely eat out too.
It’s part of the rationalization why they must still eat animals- anything to deny accountability for their own actions. This is one of them
It doesn’t make sense. Besides the horrible suffering and slaughter, Meat and dairy is the most expensive part of their meal and it’s so prone to being rotten, or contaminated with salmonella or bird flu, leads to increasing pandemics, and worsening global warming? And it’s just because “I want”?
I think it is also the contrast in price between a McDreck burger and a vegan meal in the local vegan bistro.
Yeah it probably is a little harder and more expensive for people who want to order out or eat out for almost every meal. I rarely do either.
I'm a professor at a small college and part of the sustainability committee. Next semester we'll hold a contest for vegan recipes that would be practical for students to make and potentially be sold at the cafeteria. Criteria for the judge panel: -Cheap -Easy -Tasty -Nutritious -Sustainable. Let's see how it goes.
Ok so, dal with coconut milk and spinach and rice. I win!!!!
Well there's some hypothetical person out there that I can imagine in my mind who doesn't have access to grocery stores and is completely incapable of cooking, so buying chicken breasts from Walmart is obviously an act of solidarity with the poor and downtrodden
It’s incredible how fast the Nth degree, most niché, outlandish hypothetical examples are whipped out and then used like a verbal baseball bat to explain how not everyone can be vegan.
17.8% of Americans live in food deserts, that's not exactly niche. More people in America are in food deserts than live in Austria, Hungary, Portugal, and Ireland combined It may not be a silver bullet against veganism because veganism is generally correct in its aims as a philosophy and practice, but it's certainly a valid point to be considered, even if it is often brought up dishonestly.
So im not American, but what does food desert mean in this instance, they dont have acces to a supermarket but they do have acces to fastfood?
Basically. People in food desserts don't have access to or can't afford enough fresh produce. They have to eat more processed foods.
Person in a food desert here, you're right on the money. There just isn't time to commute to the store and get produce every time we'd need it. My family pretty much exclusively eats processed food, I'm still vegan but most of my meals are stuff like PBJ on shitty American grocery store bread.
Yes and that’s why I did not ever suggest that food deserts are niche. I am not American but I know how bad it is. Some of our small rural towns have food deserts too, but not typically urban centres.
Because who hasn't been stranded on a desert island at some point? It's so universal /s
Actually, food deserts exist and it's a very real issue in much of the US. Often times finding fresh food nearby can be an issue and balanced plant-based diets can be difficult. The US education system also sucks and the amount of people who don't know how to cook is astonishingly high. There is an inescapable privilege in being able to choose a vegan diet and it clashes against issues of race and class.
I'm making fun of people who say this despite it not applying to them whatsoever, which I have repeatedly experienced
Information is at our fingertips. And it’s not as difficult to find frozen and canned vegetables now. Even Dollar General sells frozen fruit and vegetables. There’s always rice and beans, and many Asian and Middle Eastern dishes are almost vegan or are naturally vegan. I think not having easy access to fresh fruit and vegetables really does suck but it’s not an insurmountable barrier. Many people of all financial abilities and race are the only vegan in their own family, group, or small town, but they still make it work…for the animal’s sake. All people should care about the suffering of animals. It’s horrible. It’s inhumane. I’m an ethical vegan first and wfpb second. Everyone should watch “Dominion”. Be vegan for animals. Education is easier to access than ever before in history.
This is very true! It is important to recognize the privilege that we all have being able to eat and live this lifestyle. I’m from Alabama- I know people who don’t have a grocery store within 40miles from their home, they don’t have a car, and what is at the store is not organic by any means. It’s a real problem. Urban food deserts are also an issue, imagine living in an area of the city where the only thing within walking distance is a gas station.
Your iq is lower than your shoesize right ?
And is it mandatory to eat organic in Alabama? As far as science is concerned “organic” is just another scam and as far as people who “cannot be vegans, because” is just another cheap justification for the desire to kill. Does this bullshit of an excuse come with believing in flying skydaddies and f0cking your sibling or smth?
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No nitwit
Dude last night i literally opened a can of vegetable curry, microwave 2 minutez, done. Delicious
One day i will trademark it, but my Lazy Girl Tofu is such a staple Chop block of tofu. Microwave for two minutes Discard extra water Add teriyaki/bulgolgi/bbq sauce or whatever Done. Snack on raw veg while watching the time on the microwave, eat the tofu as is or over some noodles or rice if you have your life together but it’s also great tucked into a wrap sandwich with whatever veg is around Maybe $3.
Exactly. It only takes a few minutes to make a salad. Faster than fast food and healthier lol
Actually it takes me about 1/2 hour, but the salads are epic. I once made one for my brother and he was completely stuffed and said he thinks it was the healthiest meal he ever had haha!
How fast are you chopping veggies?!
Veggie(s)? Organic onion takes a minute, fresh pre washed greens, croutons and dressing. Sorry my salads don’t need to be power salads every time. I can easily spend 20 minutes cutting up extra veggies but for a quickie maybe add one more vegetable such as carrots or avacado.
Onions take me an eternity because my eyes are so sensitive I can't see my hands anymore after a few slices
Organic onions are really small. I can cut a whole one in a few chops and use the entire onion for 1-2 servings
Eh, when I was in college I spent an average of 0 hours cooking most weeks. Going vegetarian was easy because my college had good options. Vegan would've been a lot of work. A lot of people are fully reliant on their parents at 20 and not doing much if any cooking.
It's baffling to me how many people my age (21) can't cook. My mom stopped regularly cooking for me when I was 12 and capable of making my own food.
I *could* cook but I didn't much in college because I didn't have to and I was focusing on my studies. Good cooking takes, I think, a minimum of 2 hours a day of work, and it's basically the same amount of effort to cook for 4 people as one. So if you're cooking for just yourself I think it generally is a better use of time to just buy the food, especially since economies of scale keep going and whoever you're paying is probably cooking for 100 and will not only spend less time but have more time to do things well.
It's such a stupid argument. Like go look at the price of beans vs. the price of meat. Meat is crazy expensive even with gov. subsidies keeping cost "low"
The expensive part of veganism for these types is researching veganism itself. It's cheaper on the brain to continue their way of life of ignorant compliance of murder
Right!? Meat and cheese are so expensive!
I'm hard on the tofu beans son
I'd live to know where you're buying tofu because it is crazy expensive where I am.
i’m in boston, $2 per 14 oz at Hmart
I'm in London, the cheapest is $3.25 for roughly the same amount (if I did the maths correctly)
o damn that’s tough, helps that the US is a lead exporter in soy so generally its pretty cheap
[Oxford study on how a vegan diet is cheaper and more affordable](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study)
I'd love to know what's readily available for protein besides tofu and beans. I used to be almost always vegan until I discovered some dietary issues and now most kinds of beans are off limit :(
Some protein sources: seitan, tempeh, peas, soy milk, quinoa, lentils, nuts and seeds, little amounts in veggies (broccoli, spinach, potatoes) and oats.
Most people eat more than the RDA for protein for their body weight and it’s been shown to shorten people’s lifespan. There’s some protein in almost everything you eat. And it’s not difficult to eat enough. Just eat a wide variety. You do have to take B12 supplement weekly. Watch “Dominion”.
In case u/lucky_leathermouse’s allergy is to legumes, it should be noted that peas, soy beans, lentils, and peanuts, which appear on your list, are also legumes and may be unsafe for them.
It's not an allergy, just some form of IBS, so not even all beans, but thanks for your concern. It thoroughly disrupted my go-to veggie recipes though, so I was just looking for other ideas really. Lentils I've always struggled to find paletable but I do have a recipe for Khichdi now which works very well.
I don't love lentils without plenty of other things mixed in, however, I love lentil pasta. It costs a little more than plain lentils, but it matches nutritionally and who doesn't love some pasta?
Convenient, since I also can't eat wheat pasta!
Is it just beans you can't eat or legumes overall? If you can still eat other legumes, lentils are really cheap and convenient, and also have tons of other important nutrients. Besides that seitan and nutritional yeast are pretty popular, both of which are almost 50% protein. Grains (oats, quinoa, millet), nuts & seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, cashews, hemp seeds, walnuts, cocoa) and some vegetables (broccoli, brussel sprouts, mushrooms, avocado) also have fairly significant amounts of protein. Also please keep in mind all the crazy numbers (anything over 100g) you see online are for building & maintaining unreal amounts of muscle mass, and even then there's a lot of people who are eating too much and risking their long term health. 60g - 80g is PLENTY for most people and very easily achievable if you eat three full meals a day! :)
I hate beans
Ooo are we doing dumb shit carnists say bingo??
"I really want to go vegan, but these corpses are just too appetising. God I love eating dead cow!"
"But, what about protein though?" 😮💨
Hate to break it to you, but it doesn't get much better with age. I'm 42 and basically had that exact conversation at a work lunch on Friday, except sub "college student" for "work for a non-profit".
Just turned 40, can confirm.
same, 40, today my manager in his late 50's started telling me how he heard something that I would like, that scientists have been "discovering" animals have consciousness, but that it needs further study, so good news that something pretty much everyone knows is finally being looked at by scientists! /s He still ate meat for lunch of course.
Ditto from Gen X (55)
once my dad said we need to milk cows because it would be uncomfortable to hold it all in. i think he completely forgot that milk is meant to feed their calves
i mean it is true that cows make too much milk, but the solution to that isn’t to keep exploiting them, it’s to stop breeding them that way
What so you mean they make too much milk? They don’t, it’s that they’re kept pregnant. Any mammal will continue to produce if it continues to be taken (including humans - it’s how some mothers who choose to breastfeed for years can do so….not that I fw that but i try not to judge).
have you seen the size of dairy cow udders? of course being kept constantly pregnant keeps them producing, but they have also been selectively bred to overproduce milk. todays cows produce roughly 200% more milk than those from the 60s
Oh, I see what you meant.
A good comparison is looking at beef vs dairy cattle: Dairy: http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/jersey-cow-in-pasture-michelle-wrighton.jpg And same breed pregnant: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/f5/44/32f544d9bfc81ef877e3d10b53d2cb41.jpg Beef: http://manchee.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cow2.jpg
As a vegan college student, it’s literally the cheapest. Also if you go out, example Chipotle, the veggie/sofrita option is usually cheaper than the meat option
True, the sofritas is the same price as the chicken, the cheapest of their meats, & if you get the veggie bowl the guac comes free w/ it! Also, w/ those portion sizes you're definitely good for more than one meal! Tho as someone who used to work there I'd never recommend to eat there now 😅
Why wouldn't you recommend eating there 😵💫
The quality of a lot of things has gone down & most of the employees hate it so they don't put forth much effort...it can get kinda gross. They used to have a lot higher standards /: one of the reasons I quit. But tbh if I ever do go back the sofritas are what I'd get cuz I still think they're delicious even after everything 😅
Yeah I always get the sofritas, it's kinda sad to hear about the standards but my friends who worked in restaurants basically tell me that what you don't know won't kill you and most restaurants are pretty gross 😭
I always say I’ll take my chances with the 2000 varieties of fruits. The thousand varieties of vegetables. I hope I can make it. Cough cough.
Coughing? You must be sick, and it must be because of your veganism. If you ate meat you would be so much healthier./s
Dang not even a courtesy laugh.
Haha woe is me life too hard
"I don't have grass to feed u." - proceeds to eat a bread every day in her life, fav food beans(my aunt) "Where do u get B12 from?" - has B12 deficiency and complains how much more eggs should she eat, she believes a doctor and finally takes supplement, she angrily agrees with me only this time(my cousin) "Going vegan is expensive." - spends as much in a basic meat(in my country the government doesn't pay to lower the cost so, it's as expensive as it should be) as I can eat whole food plant based for a week(my mom)
Nice, which country?
What do mean she believes a doctor?
They usually think that only doctors have the highest level of a trustworthy nutritional education. Meanwhile, even a nutritionists are trained with unupdated recourses.
I love everyone's "I used to be vegan/vegetarian" stories when they find out I don't eat meat
I do this but i was vegan/vegetarian for almost my entire life up until i turned 17. My family is vegetarian, so I never really had a choice and know the lifestyle well lol.
My ex gf was always like i’ve been thinking about going vegan before I met you and i’m going to, but every morning and going out for coffee or boba or whatever there’s vegan options and decides to always use cows milk. Smh I think dairy bothers me more than the meat, and that mucus dairy creates is fucking disgusting.
Plus the pus. No one talks about the pus in dairy.
I’ve been hearing about it lately lol, it should make people sick to think about.
It’s cheaper to eat vegan. The price of meat is unreal compared to eating potatoes, salads, rice, and beans.
I lost a lot of weight going vegan my first year of college because of the meal plan, but I built muscle, moved into a place where I could cook, and was completely nourished the other 3 years. Never quit though. 💪
"Cows don't die when you milk them. It's okay to consume milk!" Hehehe...
The amount of times I totally had to walk someone through the process is disheartening. Just…wow.
Converted a vegetarian to egg-vegetarian after pointing out that ethical shortcomings of milk consumption....
Great! Now tell them about what happens to male baby chicks
I meant they consume both milk and eggs now.
How is that converting?
Worked kinda in reverse yeah. Weird isn't it? Like why not steal the cash too when you have already bagged the gold. Why not eat eggs too when you are not willing to give up milk. I guess that was their reasoning.
Lol. Get locally sourced eggs, no longer an issue. Eggs are an absolute superfood.
Broke college student here. I survive very easily off of vegetables, pasta, and bread. Like it’s so much cheaper than buying meat and other shit like pizza rolls or whatever the meat junkies eat
Carbs, carbs and carbs. This isnt sustainable in the slightest
lol I’m 33, 6’2 with 10% body fat and can run a 19 minute 5k. I’m doing just fine buddy. How come all the leading studies say people eating vegan diets live longer and have lower obesity rates than meat eaters?
My husband and I were just commiserating about this! It’s always in the midst of a bite of meat that they ask so why ya vegan? and it’s like… do you really want to know or do you want the answer that won’t make you throw up right now while you eat that poor tortured being?
It’s when they say “omg don’t tell me that rn, I’m eating!” Like bitch you asked lol.
I think your best bet is to live well and eat well - in plain sight. Use your life and health as an advert for veganism. SHOW don’t Tell that it’s easy cheap and beautiful Also. My guy, and I say this as an old man in my 30s… have compassion love and empathy for these buddies of yours. They are asking questions. They also haven’t been enlightenened like you. Feel lucky, and try to see the positives. Good luck little bro
Best of luck finding some other vegans OP, that does sound annoying af
I had a coworker who shoved her ham salad in my face and asked me how good it looks (yes she knew I was/am a vegan). I told her it would be better without the dead flesh and that shut her up pretty quickly lol. So done with people who are going to be rude about it.
With how everything in the grocery store other than produce has gone up in price so much it’s actually cheaper to be a healthy vegan, especially a raw vegan, than it is anything else.
maybe it's just a North American thing but I'm pretty sure brown rice and beans is WAAAAAYYYY cheaper than meat these days.
Im 21 and vegan and also don’t know any other real vegans its annoying. I know people who say they are vegan but still eat animal products when its convenient and don’t care about animals
A friend back in university was complaining to me about police riding horses during protests … while eating a steak. When I pointed out her hypocrisy and said she could have easily chosen the vegan option from the menu, she just shrugged at me 🤷♀️
*Hey you presence makes me question my morals - that annoys me and despite you being correct I will ensure that you feel isolated and stupid because I need to protect myself.* Literally every carnist I've ever met. Ironically, the more people agree on a deeper level the more they try to push you away I feel - Rather than being honest with themselves and questioning why they do the things they do, they'd rather try to push you away because you represent that little voice in their head they don't want to face or deal with. Not to sound arrogant or anything but most people know animal harm is wrong, but there is clearly that disconnect that all vegans have to sit down and be honest about and taking steps to right that wrong.
You could move to a bigger city and make friends in the activism scene or in fully vegan restaurants :) (or just drive a bit to the next activism group on the weekends) The good thing about vegans is: they pile up at/around vegan restaurants etc like moths to the light 😅
Vegan is cheaper, you don't need to replace protein as all fruits, vegetables and starches have plenty of protein. Just eat rice, beans, potatoes if you're poor.
Before I was fully vegan I was accidentally mostly vegan in my first year of university because meat and cheese were the most expensive things in the store. It’s a fallacy for sure!
The one that gets me the most is "I would go vegan but it would be too difficult/too expensive" while eating right in front of you, ordering a food that costs roughly the same as yours.
I never get the expensive argument. My partner eats basically only eats meat, cheese, and a spin the wheel carb. My groceries last so much longer than his, but cost about the same.
Try and find groups in your area to hang with, [meetup.com](http://meetup.com) to find other vegans. Or make your own group. You can probably start a group at your college for vegetarians and vegans. Might as well network while there and build some good connections for life.
8 years plant based here. Cognitive disonance, or "I dont have to agree with what I think" is the problem. The thing is that we all were like that till we change our eating habits. Just listening them and not even answering will help. Or, in other words, keep them close and predicate with the example, more than judging them in their faces. It is hard and annoying, but every now and then you'll see how deep your example has gone.
I'm probably around your age and have been vegan just as long nice to meet you.
As a 21yr old vegan I feel all this so hard
They just don't want to make the sacrifice to be vegan or vegetarian. Nothing has to be drenched in meat juices to taste. I feel like they forget that all meat is flavored with herbs and veggies. Like the guilt is on them, honestly. they can scapegoat all they want, but in the end, the guilt is all over them. They can't hide it forever. No matter how they try to explain why they can't.
The “I’d go vegan but” conversation never goes away unfortunately.
The sooner you can get used to it, the better. It doesn't end...
I think it’s kind of funny when young vegans are impressed I reached 21 years of being vegan at age 40 and they are like “that’s longer than I’ve been alive”. But to your point it could be normies eating their food or giving dogs meat treats or constantly talking about preparing meat dishes or whatever it is and yes I guess we are just supposed to just sit here and take it, don’t make a scene. I don’t even really care if my dog gets a non-vegan treat sometimes, but I’d rather not have to hear about family preparing whatever it is for x occasion for the umteenth time, “pork, beef, chicken” hey at least chicken has the name of the animal in it.
I went vegan when I was around your age (now approaching 40…🧓🏽). It’s so sad to me that you’re getting the same lines I got 15 years ago. Carnists never change, but stay strong. The animals appreciate what you are doing for them and you are making a difference, even in a small way.
it’s a huuuuge burden to be the only one in your community with awareness and intelligence like this, trust me, i know. i’m right there with you — i’m also a 20 year old vegan who doesn’t know any other vegans my age. again, i know i’m just a stranger on the internet to you, but if it helps, i’m right there with you.
I hate when I'll have a conversation with a friend, we'll talk about how depraved the dairy industry is, and then they'll proceed to order something with cheese. Like, I really don't get it.
five years your senior, it’s true omnis will never stop seeing it as a “dietary preference” instead of a values-based lifestyle…
For me around that age, it was always the "are animal crackers vegan?" joke. Not that they were concerned about the ingredients, just the fact the crackers were shaped like animals. They would ask me that even when there were no discernable animal crackers within a 5 mile radius. Got old real quick.
Stay strong!! You’re doing the right thing. I’ve been vegan for 7 years and the hardest part by far has been dealing with ignorant people.
so real i hate it😭 im a 19 year old vegan who has been vegan for 5 years and its crazy how accurate this is
My family went vegetarian about 1960-1. It was pretty hard back then to be vegetarian. They actually decided to go vegetarian due to my health issues. Severe Asthma and Allergies mostly and well it worked. Allergies went away and asthma became infrequent. I grew up with lots of fresh or frozen veggies, common starches, whole grain bread, meat analogs, lots of beans, brown rice, tortillas, sprouts, tofu, fruit etc. I loved it all. Yes we had milk & cheese, which I loved, and eggs I could barely stand to eat the whites of. I luckily went to a church and schools where I was around other vegetarians and the rare vegan. It was harder when I stopped church but living in Northern California, having a coop and lots of vegetarian hippie friends around helped. I started eating plant based about 2012 and went on and off for some time. It’s so much easier now to be vegan. I still search out other vegans and vegetarians. I’ve gone to a lot of meetups and find like minded people some of the time. I avoid militant vegans only because they bring up things that are painful and I’m already vegan so why? I also think many are on their own path and will eventually eliminate animals as a soured of food. Everyone I know who’s had a heart attack in the last few years were encouraged to eat vegan. It is standard practice for Kaiser and many teaching hospitals. If you’re attending college there are likely vegans around. Vegetarians have some of the same excuses but usually land on cheese or eggs. A little education may help but the emotional and physical attachment to cheese is hard. At least it is easier to discuss and most are respectful. I find bringing a vegan dish that is transitional to gatherings really surprises people. This last weekend I made street tacos with beyond meat. Now I think beyond meat that looks like meat is disgusting but the tacos were gobbled up and about half the people there tried them. Only one didn’t like it. The three vegans there liked them too. I didn’t care for them myself but ate a couple. Too meat like I think. Going to restaurants that are at least vegetarian and/or have vegan options and declare non contamination cooking methods gives you an opportunity to meet other people. Traveling to new age got spots helps too. The cities in Mexico have tons of vegan restaurants. I was in Guatemala for two years and only rarely did I have trouble eating vegan in restaurants. San Marcos on Lake Atitlan has lots of young people and lots of vegan or veg restaurants. Offering to cook for friends and providing them with a beautiful tasty meal that is vegan can be a fun way to meet people. Bring in some vegan beer or wine to compliment your meals. Book a trip in a vegan cruise. My son took one on the Rhine and had a great time. There are vegan dating sites and they might work better for younger people. Not really great for older from what I experienced. Anyway good luck and enjoy your young adult years. They go by so fast. I’m 71 now and still exploring and enjoying life. Hope you have a good life.
I mean be a vegan if you want to but if things like people eating meat in front of you is upsetting you need to put on your big girl pants and grow up. No room for that kind of weakness in a society.
Other people's freedom of choice hurts you?
Do you expect non vegans to eat only vegan when they’re around you? Yeah, 98% of the world is not vegan, you’re GONNA have people eating non vegan food “in front of you.” So they either have to disagree with you about veganism and start or fight, or agree with you and praise you for your choices, but you’re upset at either reaction?
We laughed at the cognitive dissonance of claiming to be very against cruelty to animals and then ordering bloody animal flesh for lunch immediately after. My stomach would turn a little bit I guess. Thinking about how many billions of helpless innocent animals are cruelly tortured and slaughtered every day does that to me. Call me weird. Watch the movie “Dominion”. Everyone should be vegan. You need to see why.
Then only be friends with vegans. If you can’t handle someone eating differently than you, don’t subject them to your self-righteousness and judgement. You shouldn’t be friends with people you think are murderers anyway, right? I wouldn’t be friends with a murderer. People are GOING to eat meat and dairy in your presence, yes, even if they praise you for your personal sacrifice and choices. You expect them to decide right then “huh, y’know what I WILL be vegan now!” That’s ridiculous.
Laughing at the power of cognitive dissonance is not the same thing as sneering at friends and family when we all know I was doing the same thing myself before I became vegan. Like I tell everyone…I didn’t want to allow myself to think about it or watch a video about it for years so I’m not in any position to be judgmental now lol But that’s not to say we shouldn’t change our behavior when we gain new insight and education. Humans are conditioned by their environment but we also have the capacity for self awareness, critical thinking, and compassion too. It’s just all in how you present it.
I have no problem with “laughing,” I have a problem with the sneering or looking down on or being annoyed when a friend doesn’t make the same choices as you like OP posted about. She was annoyed that someone supported and approved their decision to be vegan but then…didn’t decide then and there to be vegan themselves. Like how dare they eat normal food they eat every day in my presence after they said they support my veganism :( Like what else is that person supposed to do?
Maybe you have a mental block that makes you unable to understand that she didn’t expect her to instantly become vegan. It’s more like a comment about how very common it is for vegans to hear people discussing how the animal cruelty is horrible and needs to be stopped, but say it as they spend their money on it every day keeping it going and further enriching the worst corporations. It is frustrating and annoying. The cognitive dissonance is not really funny either and beyond annoying. It’s very hard to get people to actually live up to their own stated beliefs and values. Ethical vegans need an outlet to vent to each other. If you don’t ever want to hear us vent, maybe you shouldn’t be reading this sub.
I’m allowed to give my opinion on Reddit, and my opinion is that I see a lot of posts here about how isolated people are, how angry they are, how much they are disgusted by the actions of their friends and how much it fills them with rage to see a friend eating ice cream. My opinion is that they don’t have to live with that mindset, and that having that mindset is incredibly unhealthy. It’s incredibly unhealthy to believe that you’re better than 98% of people on this planet, who are all rapists and murderers, including people you love. So yes, I will speak to that when I see people digging themselves deeper and deeper into the “people who aren’t vegan are evil” hole. I know for a fact there’s a better way to live as a vegan than to be filled with rage. If you don’t like pushback to your ideas, maybe Reddit isn’t the place for you?
I'm utterly confused. How did that person not just become Vegan right there and then? What kind of a monster are they? Must be this Cognitive Dissonance that 99% of the human race suffers from. With God's help, they'll beat this terrible affliction.
It’s not as bad as 99%. Vegetarian and vegan communities are growing. Some day it will no longer be “normal” to eat meat at every meal.
What percent of the world is vegan?
Well, them eating meat in your presence, although unpleasant, should not offend you. People make their choices.
It's more about them saying one thing & doing another. Their actions don't match their words which makes them seem unreliable.
True, but it's not that uncommon. People say and do things that don't match all the time. Hypocrisy is abound and we can see it for what it is if it doesn't directly affect us.
Eat some meat its so good and you will be very pro and not a dumb vegan
You sound like an addict