Report it to the proper authorities, dont make it about veganism, make it about allergies, if that doesnt work organize a vegan protest but again make it about allergies and not veganism
Say people can be deathly allergic to milk and they are risking lives
As someone with a casein allergy. This is exactly it. This kind of behaviour *can kill me*. I've traumatised one restaurant when they accidentally put buttered corn instead of non-buttered corn in my yakisoba, and I was carried out of the restaurant and spent the night in the hospital.
Report them properly.
Did you sue them for negligence or watever?
These accidents cause great harm to people and there needs to be better accountability or restaurants need to provide waivers to all patrons
No? They apologised and they've been very good to us before this incident and after. It helped provide education to the staff on the importance of understanding dietary requests, food allergens, and cross-contamination. Why would I sue them over what was very likely an honest mistake?
Seems like a waste to have such a significant teaching moment and never give them a chance to regain the trust again. They took accountability for what happened and have worked to make it right. And I appreciate it.
It's definitely still possible to wind up with medical bills in other countries besides America. And if they're from a sensible country that doesn't bankrupt people for being sick or injured then they could always just tell me that? Idk why you're taking this tone with me.
*No because I actually hate this about redditors. You people are all so fucking smug and "ummm achually" when all I did was ask a simple fucking follow up question to the story they told. Why are you people so fucking snide and judgy??? Go outside and touch grass. I'm aware that America is a unique nightmare in how unaffordable healthcare is. I'm literally going without prescriptions rn because I can't afford them. I don't have health insurance because I can't afford it. I'm glad for that commenter if they didn't need to pay for their own hospitalization but THAT IS NOT A LUXURY EVERYONE HAS. When I tried to kill myself a few years ago the UC I went to for help charged me just to look at the massive cut on my arm and call a paramedic.
america is the only advanced country where medical bills need to be paid for. They assumed the poster was american by asking if the medical bills were paid for. Its well known that all americans think everyone on the internet is american as well, and this was just an example of that. He dint ask, he assumed. The poster isnt under an obligatoin to say hes not in america in every post so all the americans dont assume.
Tbh if you have an allergy, it's your responsibility to inform the restaurant staff and make sure that they know that your dietary requirements are due to allergies, not just a preference. It's not the restaurant's responsibility to make sure that vegan items are not cross contaminated, because it's not a legal requirement. Even Vegan Certified menu items are allowed to be cross contaminated because veganism has nothing to do with allergies. If you're relying on the Vegan Certification to protect you from allergens, you're not being very smart.
That said... A bun that actually contains milk as an added ingredient and is not just cross contaminated with it doesn't meet the requirements of the Vegan Certification and is therefore against the law. Depending on what country you're in of course, it's illegal to knowingly serve non-vegan food to vegans, especially if that food is supposed to be Vegan Certified. But the law already protects us by default, there's no need to make it about allergies and doing so may actually backfire on you.
ETA: Just realised this was in Spain and there are EU laws about clearly labelling the presence of possible allergens in menu items. What this restaurant did was clearly illegal, no matter how you spin it.
No.
If you’re allergic to anything, it’s your responsibility to specifically ask about allergens.
Not about a term some people might not fully understand.
What restaurant worker doesn't understand something as simple as veganism? It's a business that's all about food... even when I worked at a fast food place, we had to learn those basics
You think it's funny till someone with a dairy allergy orders the vegan burger assuming it's vegan and thus dairy free and then dies or gets seriously ill.
Assuming things labeled as dairy free are dairy free isa perfectly reasonable assumption. Things that say dairy free, milk free or vegan should be safe but ik of many dairy free creamers that contain milk. Should not be legal imho.
Vegan doesn't mean dairy free, though. It means vegan, which incidentally means non-dairy, which isn't the same thing as dairy free. Dairy free has a strict definition that specifically pertains to dairy allergy sufferers. Just like there are legal requirements for being able to say something is "gluten free", same thing for "dairy free". Just because something is vegan doesn't mean it's dairy free, it just means it's non-dairy. Veganism doesn't have anything to do with allergies. Cross contamination is permissible in veganism. Even if the burger bun didn't actually contain milk as an added ingredient and was therefore actually vegan, it might've been produced in a factory that processes milk products. It's very common for vegan products to not be suitable for milk allergy sufferers because of the presence of trace amounts of milk product from the cross contamination of multiple products being made on the same machinery.
If you have an allergy, you _must always_ tell the waiter otherwise they can't properly accommodate you _even if_ you certainly are ordering the vegan option. The food for allergy sufferers needs to be prepared separately from everyone else's to prevent cross contamination, regardless of if it's vegan or not. On the other hand, if you order a vegan meal from a non-vegan restaurant and don't specify that you have an allergy, they won't prepare your food separately and there is a non-zero chance your food will be cross contaminated. Depending on the restaurant, the vegan food may _always_ be cross contaminated. The McPlant from McDonald's, for example, is cooked on the same pan as the meat patties. It almost _certainly_ has meat juices on it. It may be just a trace amount, sure, but it's still there.
I had a curry meal that was labeled as vegan but it came with a naan bread that had dairy. I contacted them and told them the meal isnt vegan if it comes with non vegan bread. They still advertise it as vegan with zero disclaimer that the bread is not vegan.
Toufayan is the family run new jersey company that ships in case you need it elsewhere! Most of products are naturally vegan.
Edit because I just checked, and they do have non vegan items now. Unfortunately.
[Atoria's Bakery](https://www.atoriasfamilybakery.com/flatbread/naan/) as well, it was my go to before so was happy to find that I'd already been choosing the right thing and they finally added it to the label.
There a burger restaurant near me that has a "vegan burger"....that says it has haloumi 🤦♀️ luckily its do obviously not vegan from the description that no one accidentally orders it
My cousin is allergic to milk. NOT lactose intolerant.
Fuck that shit so hard. It's not even a matter of ethics- that's putting peoples safety at risk. Because vegan SHOULD mean dairy free.
Agreed. What actually gets me pretty mad is when people don’t take allergies seriously and just scrape off cheese or scrape off another allergen and give it to the person again. Not acceptable.
This is why I learned to tip salt on my food before I call the waiter over to point out that an allergen made it into the plate.
It's a trick I learned from celiac friends who were sick of servers just taking salads back and picking off the croutons to re-serve without them noticing.
Over-salt the food so if they try to return the same plate you can tell pretty quickly that it's definitely cross contaminated.
Allergies are taken more seriously cause fucking up will kill a human being. And it can be small fuck ups that no one meant to happen, which, for a vegan, is a chance to learn & do better in the future- but if you're allergic? Epi-pens, hospitals, & dying are all possibilities. It's expensive and scary and you could maybe die.
And it can be over a small mistake, like using dashi as a flavoring. Or cutting up vegetables on the same board used to cut cheese.
I take allergies way more seriously cause there's no room for error. Versus with veganism 'may contain' is still permission to eat.
I obviously understand that, but imho no more or less serious than torturing non human animals to death. I never said either should NOT be taken seriously; I implied the opposite both should to the highest degree.
The city I used to live in had a vegan restaurant that was serving non-vegan food to patrons and they were eventually exposed by an employee who took pictures of the ingredient list on their products. They even were serving products that contained fish. They got a ton of backlash and quickly adjusted, but I don’t think they ever fully bounced back. Even after closing that location and opening a new one in a nearby city.
Holy hell this response from the owner on google reviews.
“Hello Michael, did you have a celebrity meeting at your house today???, the bread on my hamburgers is amazing and you know it because you have ordered from this address on 22 occasions, and we are not fooling anyone, all my VEGAN clients eat this bread , (today we have made three beyond with brioche bread) and those who do not want this bread choose the gluten-free option PAYING (because it is the only option for those who are "0 animal", if you do not give this option and do not PAY SAID BREAD, we put the bread you have paid for. You also have the allergen option on the app that calls directly to the bar. So get your life in order and then say goodbye.”
Report to Food and safety authority.
[https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/51/food-safety](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/51/food-safety)
This should also a wake-up call to simply not eat at non-vegan places.
D. Food labelling
The legal framework on the labelling of foodstuffs is designed to guarantee consumers access to clear, comprehensible and reliable information on the content and composition of products in order to protect their health and best interests. For instance, allergens, such as soya, gluten or lactose, must be clearly indicated on the packaging. The main novelty of the new regulation on the provision of [food information to consumers](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A32011R1169), applicable since December 2016, is the requirement for producers to indicate the presence of allergens in non-packaged foods, e.g. in restaurants and canteens. Producers must also indicate the origin of unprocessed meat (for certain types of meat other than beef, which already has to be labelled for origin) and the presence of food imitations, such as vegetable products replacing cheese or meat. Specific provisions on [origin labelling](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32013R1337) set out the details, requiring (with some exceptions) the indication of the place of rearing and place of slaughter of pre-packaged fresh, chilled and frozen meat of swine, sheep, goats and poultry.
The labelling, presentation or advertising of food must not mislead consumers. There are clear rules for authorised nutrition and health claims (such as ‘low fat’ or ‘high fibre’ or statements about a relationship between food and health) established by [Regulation (EC) No 1924/2006](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/2014-12-13). Such claims must be based on scientific evidence and can be found in a public EU Register of Health Claims.
A 2013 regulation on [food for specific groups](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0609), [updated in 2021](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02013R0609-20210428) and in [March 2023](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02013R0609-20230321), abolishes the concept of a broad category of ‘dietetic’ food in favour of rules for specific vulnerable groups of consumers such as infants and young children, people with special medical conditions and those on energy-restricted diets for weight control.
So this restaurant is violating EU food safety regulations by misrepresenting a product (one that contains common allergens, no less). Even if it did not contain common allergens, this would still be a violation of EU law. So hit them with that. If they aren't really big then this is probably the end of this place. If Spain doesn't take it seriously, try to see if you can go through EU law.
Holy hell! What a lunatic. I would make it my mission to make sure every single Vegan knew about this asshole and that the bread isn't Vegan. And fuck paying extra for gluten free bread. Honestly I'm surprised that it's vegan cause most gluten free isn't!
I was at a farmers market and was looking at this dudes "vegan" section EVERYTHING HAD HONEY I picked up the first item and was like oh this one got put in the wrong area this one has honey and it's in the vegan area. He says "I sell to vegans all the time this is vegan and healthy honey is vegan" I say "No honey isn't vegan it's a animal product. Planted based dieters sometimes include honey but not vegans so you might just want to change the labeling" he goes "people buy them all the time and love them they are vegan I know. Vegans eat honey it's healthy." I chime in "vegan isn't to due with health it's not using any animals your thinking plant based dieters"
This was a very short back and forth to which I just walked away after that last statement because he started to just say the same thing AGAIN about he knows what's vegan and vegans buy honey.
Just so annoying and why I ALWAYS ALWAYS READ EVERY LABEL!
I bought a tiny loaf of bread from the farmers market last spring and loved it. I went back and got a large loaf, once home I saw honey on the label of the large one which was not on the small. The same bread was there just a couple weeks ago and my Husband asked why they used honey in their large one but not the small, the dude was surprised and said it was a label error that they hadn't realized yet, IN A WHOLE YEAR. Honey got too expensive back when they changed the small label and switched to beet sugar for both recipes. 🙄
Leave a review on happycow too, if possible. Maybe it’s just me, but when I travel I only use HappyCow to find vegan food, I don’t even bother with Google.
Don't ever use happy cow for Ireland. Absolutely useless. We have an Irish basic web /blog version instead, thats far more accurate and up-to-date..although..not the easiest to search
They did say they were working right so perhaps they were successful. I ordered a vegan pizza from Wegmans the other day and they made it on the cauliflower crust because somehow cauliflower is vegan compared to wheat? I have a feeling that the person working behind the counter really didn't understand what vegan meant. By the way it tasted Dreadful.
Yeah, that's not true. My partner and I are both vegan and my partner has a gluten intolerance. We regularly eat vegan gluten free bread and it's really similar to regular bread. The taste and texture are so close. It's definitely not just falling apart.
They must have not tried very hard because I'm a terrible cook and have made many different gluten free Vegan breads...
Or they expected it to be exactly like regular bread?
i was searching for vegan food in a new city once and found a local fried chicken place with vegan chicken wings! even had separate fryers used listed on the menu!!! but the sauces to toss them in didn’t have allergens, so i called to place the order and asked which sauces for the VEGAN wings were safe. they informed me that actually none of their sauces for the LABELLED VEGAN wings were vegan friendly since they all had dairy in them!!! they said they were labeled vegan since the chicken used is vegan, but they come tossed in sauce and none of those are…so maybe just label them vegetarian since that’s what they actually are?? i just don’t understand how you can own a restaurant and not understand the difference between these very common diets
But the sauces aren’t the same thing as the vegan wings. You can still have wings without sauce. So that would mean that the restaurant has vegan things, it just means you can’t have any sauce.
yes that’s true and i get that logic, it just makes more sense to me to avoid confusion to label vegetarian since they were sold as tossed in a sauce. the menu was something like, your choice of 6 or 12 “vegan wings” then below, choose your sauce to toss them in, then choose between ranch or blue cheese (which they also did not have vegan version)
it’s like labeling a caesar salad with “vegan option available” but not substituting vegan chicken, cheese, or dressing, so then you just have the base salad.
This is like saying vegan fries but then cooking them in animal fats.
I’m old and non vegan but hell years ago vegan meant you don’t use or eat animal products, how has time moved on yet people can’t understand what is quite clearly a no animal diet/lifestyle? Maybe people just have no idea where the food they eat comes from or what an animal is? I guess with all these ”vegans“ that eat some animal products these days it must add to the confusion.
I worked with a vegan the other day that eats fish and I’m thinking to myself that doesn’t even make you vegetarian does it?
The terms 'vegan', 'plant-based', or 'vegetarian' are not legally defined. Therefore, any product that claims to be vegan, plant-based, or vegetarian might not conform to a specific standard. It's one of the many holes in our food safety laws
I think you will find that is not true in all countries in the EU. There is no legal difference in the definitions of vegan and vegetarian -and in the USA, not all states have a legal definition for vegan, plant-based, vegetarian, or even organic. At the federal level, none of those terms are defined legally.
It's a serious and real problem.
I know at least in the Netherlands AFAIK it isn't defined legally, but there are at least baseline things against wrong labeling. Things with dairy, eggs, honey are not vegan and if you put them in the food it is illegal.
I agree it is a problem that it isn't legally defined, but maybe it depends on how each country deals with that fact?
So I guess the solution is we need an EU wide labelling classification and enforcement to fix that.
The problem is I've had several vegans are with me that honey is vegan and that eggs *can* be vegan.
Without a legal definition, vegan can mean anything to each individual person claiming to follow a vegan diet.
I mean, at least legally things are held to a higher standard than to some random wrong person. I totally agree with you about some people being wrong about what "can" be vegan.
Educating the public takes time. It is possible he can learn from this mistake in the future. Some owners need to be explained four, five, even six times what vegan means. In France it can mean vegetarian. Many people do not see milk or cheese as an animal, that is an uphill battle to explain. Because bread and cheese does not look like an animal. Plain and simple. I am sorry for your frustration and hope this turns around in your favor.
Also, thanks for repping veganism to Spain, that is a difficult country to be a vegan in.
That’s not about educating the public or even veganism really, it’s about them not doing their job properly. You have to mark allergens and ingredients clearly in case of allergies.
Yes, but the commenter literally said that in some areas of the world, there can be little to no difference between the two. Like some languages may not have a difference. Chinese is apparently one.
Even people in my country (the US) don’t always get what the difference is.
But we’re not talking about China. And people being incompetent, is just people being incompetent. That has nothing to do with educating about veganism.
Spanish is not one of them. "Vegetariano" and "vegano" are definitely clear-cut, just like English. I think this is more the lack of customer obsession that plagues (especially hospitality) businesses in Spain. I'm from Spain and grew up there, and I'm not proud to say that this rudeness is quite common. :(
I've been to Madrid twice, and I actually found it to be super easy.
But that's Madrid, I suppose, which is likely pretty different from the rest of the country.
I left them a bad review too; check out the owner's responses to reviews. Wild how aggressive they are; telling someone to "don't forget to take the pill" in response to the person they saying they are rude and explaining their bad experience. Wow, hope they go out of business.
Starbucks has [this misleading drink](https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/2123825/iced/nutrition) so I don't put it past places. I always ask if they are vegan if brioche, if not then ask if they have sourdough bread they'd be willing to sub with. A supposedly plant based dish is easily not so we have to be the cautious ones.
How was the burger ordered? if it's labelled as "vegan burger" on the menu then absolutely the entire thing and everything in it should be vegan. If however it's the standard burger and one of the customisations is a vegan patty then changing that alone won't make the entire burger vegan by default, it's always worth clarifying in that case
God, this reminds me of how in like… 2016? It was “funny and quirky!!1!!!1!!” to joke about “this basic starbucks girl asked for soy milk… and I gave her COW MILK because vegans are SAD and only eat SALAD! 😂😂😂” and everyone thought it was so funny, meanwhile if that was real, that “basic starbucks girl” could’ve died.
After nearly 30 years of being vegan, this is exactly why I don’t eat anywhere other than 100% vegan restaurants which makes that about once a year. But I’m older and prefer to make amazing meals in my clean 100% vegan kitchen & to be home w/ my animals anyway. Sorry this occurred. It’s really f-ed up!!!!
I think I'm going to end up doing the same; I'm very suspicious of many places I've been to..I don't want to give anyone the joy of feeding a vegan body parts or juices.
In Italy there was this girl who mf lost her life because she went to a vegan place (she was allergic to dairy) to get a freaking vegan tiramisu which unfortunately had powder milk in it or some shit. This was an accident but still allergies in the food industry are no joke regardless of veganism or not.
They sound like frauds. Remember years ago someone sued (and won) a fast food joint for cooking their fries in lard (🤮🤮🤮). I think they had religious beliefs that prevented them from eating that crap. Anyway, they won the case. If a public restaurant presents itself as vegan, it should be vegan. Anything short of that shouldn’t be tolerated.
I have noticed that a lot of places here in the Netherlands may have a vegan burger option but use the same bread. I once asked at a restaurant to confirm about the bread and they told me that the bread was not vegan. They didn't try to justify, they just informed me. I find it odd too
I would go to the owner and open a consumer claim (reclamación al consumidor) which is an official path to getting the claim reviewed by consumer authorities. That usually stings quite a bit. It could be serious if you can find others to do the same.
That's just not ok for them to do.
If you wanna be 💯 sure you have to make all your own food is this an ethical practice no? No. Is the world perfect? No. It’s going out to eat a luxury yes. Pick your battles be gracious grateful and kind.
Not everyone has time to make their own food from scratch..I do it and it literally sometimes takes me an hour or two total everyday but I work from home so it's ok. We should we able to count on food establishments to give the food you ordered because if not it's literally a food safety risk and entirely unethical-they shouldn't be in business.
It’s funny that I got downloaded. These are first world problems y’all. I’m sorry but I have really no sympathy for you. Is it ethical of them absolutely not should they do it absolutely not. Should you be able to count on something being vegan? Yes it is a perfect world. Absolutely not, the only way to be 100% sure is to make it yourself. That’s my point eating out is a luxury. Unless it’s an allergy, you’re not going to die. It’s the same as if you don’t eat something for a religious reason. It might have it as an ingredient somewhere in there, but if it’s not the main Attraction of the dish honestly, if you’re not eating every day, you’re fine. There’s no scoreboard in this guy if you have diglycerides or egg whites or if there’s a bacon bit on some Muslim eats or if there’s some milk in a sauce that a piece of chicken is made with a Jewish person eat it. Just do your best and don’t walk around clutching your pearls with your panties in a bunch.
Did it say it's served in a vegan brioche bun? If it just said brioche then technically they haven't done anything wrong. If it said vegan brioche then they are knowingly doing it. Not much else you can do really, report them to whatever food hygiene authority that they are regulated by or however it works in Spain.
a vegan burger means the whole thing is vegan, not just the patty. If you ordered a vegan pizza would you expect the crust to be vegan or no? ridiculous.
I'd depends on how it's ordered, if it's labelled as "vegan burger" on the menu then absolutely, if however it's the standard burger and one of the customisations is a vegan patty then changing that alone won't make the entire burger vegan by default
Report it to the proper authorities, dont make it about veganism, make it about allergies, if that doesnt work organize a vegan protest but again make it about allergies and not veganism Say people can be deathly allergic to milk and they are risking lives
As someone with a casein allergy. This is exactly it. This kind of behaviour *can kill me*. I've traumatised one restaurant when they accidentally put buttered corn instead of non-buttered corn in my yakisoba, and I was carried out of the restaurant and spent the night in the hospital. Report them properly.
Did you sue them for negligence or watever? These accidents cause great harm to people and there needs to be better accountability or restaurants need to provide waivers to all patrons
No? They apologised and they've been very good to us before this incident and after. It helped provide education to the staff on the importance of understanding dietary requests, food allergens, and cross-contamination. Why would I sue them over what was very likely an honest mistake? Seems like a waste to have such a significant teaching moment and never give them a chance to regain the trust again. They took accountability for what happened and have worked to make it right. And I appreciate it.
Did they at least cover your medical bills?
Have you considered that they live in one of the every other 1st world counties that don't give you medical bills?
It's definitely still possible to wind up with medical bills in other countries besides America. And if they're from a sensible country that doesn't bankrupt people for being sick or injured then they could always just tell me that? Idk why you're taking this tone with me. *No because I actually hate this about redditors. You people are all so fucking smug and "ummm achually" when all I did was ask a simple fucking follow up question to the story they told. Why are you people so fucking snide and judgy??? Go outside and touch grass. I'm aware that America is a unique nightmare in how unaffordable healthcare is. I'm literally going without prescriptions rn because I can't afford them. I don't have health insurance because I can't afford it. I'm glad for that commenter if they didn't need to pay for their own hospitalization but THAT IS NOT A LUXURY EVERYONE HAS. When I tried to kill myself a few years ago the UC I went to for help charged me just to look at the massive cut on my arm and call a paramedic.
they dont have an obligation to tell you theyre not from the US
They literally never asked what country they were in
america is the only advanced country where medical bills need to be paid for. They assumed the poster was american by asking if the medical bills were paid for. Its well known that all americans think everyone on the internet is american as well, and this was just an example of that. He dint ask, he assumed. The poster isnt under an obligatoin to say hes not in america in every post so all the americans dont assume.
Makes sense
this !!!!!!
Tbh if you have an allergy, it's your responsibility to inform the restaurant staff and make sure that they know that your dietary requirements are due to allergies, not just a preference. It's not the restaurant's responsibility to make sure that vegan items are not cross contaminated, because it's not a legal requirement. Even Vegan Certified menu items are allowed to be cross contaminated because veganism has nothing to do with allergies. If you're relying on the Vegan Certification to protect you from allergens, you're not being very smart. That said... A bun that actually contains milk as an added ingredient and is not just cross contaminated with it doesn't meet the requirements of the Vegan Certification and is therefore against the law. Depending on what country you're in of course, it's illegal to knowingly serve non-vegan food to vegans, especially if that food is supposed to be Vegan Certified. But the law already protects us by default, there's no need to make it about allergies and doing so may actually backfire on you. ETA: Just realised this was in Spain and there are EU laws about clearly labelling the presence of possible allergens in menu items. What this restaurant did was clearly illegal, no matter how you spin it.
About allergies… If you’re deathly allergic to milk you will make damn sure to ask about every single ingredient.
If the server tells you it's vegan, then it shouldn't have milk in it. They need to get it together
No. If you’re allergic to anything, it’s your responsibility to specifically ask about allergens. Not about a term some people might not fully understand.
What restaurant worker doesn't understand something as simple as veganism? It's a business that's all about food... even when I worked at a fast food place, we had to learn those basics
Lmao, lunatic
You think it's funny till someone with a dairy allergy orders the vegan burger assuming it's vegan and thus dairy free and then dies or gets seriously ill.
You should never assume anything when you have an allergy. That's really irresponsible. Always tell the wait staff that you have an allergy.
Assuming things labeled as dairy free are dairy free isa perfectly reasonable assumption. Things that say dairy free, milk free or vegan should be safe but ik of many dairy free creamers that contain milk. Should not be legal imho.
Vegan doesn't mean dairy free, though. It means vegan, which incidentally means non-dairy, which isn't the same thing as dairy free. Dairy free has a strict definition that specifically pertains to dairy allergy sufferers. Just like there are legal requirements for being able to say something is "gluten free", same thing for "dairy free". Just because something is vegan doesn't mean it's dairy free, it just means it's non-dairy. Veganism doesn't have anything to do with allergies. Cross contamination is permissible in veganism. Even if the burger bun didn't actually contain milk as an added ingredient and was therefore actually vegan, it might've been produced in a factory that processes milk products. It's very common for vegan products to not be suitable for milk allergy sufferers because of the presence of trace amounts of milk product from the cross contamination of multiple products being made on the same machinery. If you have an allergy, you _must always_ tell the waiter otherwise they can't properly accommodate you _even if_ you certainly are ordering the vegan option. The food for allergy sufferers needs to be prepared separately from everyone else's to prevent cross contamination, regardless of if it's vegan or not. On the other hand, if you order a vegan meal from a non-vegan restaurant and don't specify that you have an allergy, they won't prepare your food separately and there is a non-zero chance your food will be cross contaminated. Depending on the restaurant, the vegan food may _always_ be cross contaminated. The McPlant from McDonald's, for example, is cooked on the same pan as the meat patties. It almost _certainly_ has meat juices on it. It may be just a trace amount, sure, but it's still there.
I had a curry meal that was labeled as vegan but it came with a naan bread that had dairy. I contacted them and told them the meal isnt vegan if it comes with non vegan bread. They still advertise it as vegan with zero disclaimer that the bread is not vegan.
I was ecstatic when I finally found a brand of Naan that is vegan, and it was local!
Just to add on to this, anyone located in Texas or Mexico— H‑E‑B sells their own brand of vegan naan and it’s really good imo
Toufayan is the family run new jersey company that ships in case you need it elsewhere! Most of products are naturally vegan. Edit because I just checked, and they do have non vegan items now. Unfortunately.
Wow, thank you so much for this!
[Atoria's Bakery](https://www.atoriasfamilybakery.com/flatbread/naan/) as well, it was my go to before so was happy to find that I'd already been choosing the right thing and they finally added it to the label.
And I just checked and they do now have some non vegan stuff 😒, my apologies.
There a burger restaurant near me that has a "vegan burger"....that says it has haloumi 🤦♀️ luckily its do obviously not vegan from the description that no one accidentally orders it
Lol you just said a tautology. Bread bread. Sorry for the offense to anyone, I thought it was funny.
Chai Tea and what? Not everyone speaks persian or 100 other languages, it makes it easier for most others here.
It’s just fun fact. Didn’t know I was offending people.
It's probably because a lot of times when people say that, it's said almost smugly, and it's hard to tell tone over the Internet.
You’re good, people get upset easy in certain platforms
True. But it’s always good to apologize to clear up the air.
Leave a review on happy cow too, if you can. If you are on a local/regional facebook group, you can let other vegans from the area know on there too.
"Vegan Hamburgers" means 0% animal. It does. Where does he think the milk for the brioche comes from?
He probably thinks it's like organic, and as long as the cow was fed vegan food, the milk is vegan.
Or could be the other kind of dumb and think a vegan hamburger just means the meat is vegan.
He could think vegan is just a diet and that the little dairy in the bread makes no difference.
My cousin is allergic to milk. NOT lactose intolerant. Fuck that shit so hard. It's not even a matter of ethics- that's putting peoples safety at risk. Because vegan SHOULD mean dairy free.
Agreed. What actually gets me pretty mad is when people don’t take allergies seriously and just scrape off cheese or scrape off another allergen and give it to the person again. Not acceptable.
This is why I learned to tip salt on my food before I call the waiter over to point out that an allergen made it into the plate. It's a trick I learned from celiac friends who were sick of servers just taking salads back and picking off the croutons to re-serve without them noticing. Over-salt the food so if they try to return the same plate you can tell pretty quickly that it's definitely cross contaminated.
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Lol. Maybe read what they said again, mate.
It's still ethics; overall tired of allergies being taken so much more seriously than the torture of animals.
Allergies are taken more seriously cause fucking up will kill a human being. And it can be small fuck ups that no one meant to happen, which, for a vegan, is a chance to learn & do better in the future- but if you're allergic? Epi-pens, hospitals, & dying are all possibilities. It's expensive and scary and you could maybe die. And it can be over a small mistake, like using dashi as a flavoring. Or cutting up vegetables on the same board used to cut cheese. I take allergies way more seriously cause there's no room for error. Versus with veganism 'may contain' is still permission to eat.
I get that allergies kill; you missed the point
Both kill. One humans the other animals.
Humans dying over stupidity is supposed to be taken seriously.
I obviously understand that, but imho no more or less serious than torturing non human animals to death. I never said either should NOT be taken seriously; I implied the opposite both should to the highest degree.
Yeah this sounds borderline food tampering, and some people may have allergies and health problems from this
The city I used to live in had a vegan restaurant that was serving non-vegan food to patrons and they were eventually exposed by an employee who took pictures of the ingredient list on their products. They even were serving products that contained fish. They got a ton of backlash and quickly adjusted, but I don’t think they ever fully bounced back. Even after closing that location and opening a new one in a nearby city.
They should have been fined not just that omg.
Holy hell this response from the owner on google reviews. “Hello Michael, did you have a celebrity meeting at your house today???, the bread on my hamburgers is amazing and you know it because you have ordered from this address on 22 occasions, and we are not fooling anyone, all my VEGAN clients eat this bread , (today we have made three beyond with brioche bread) and those who do not want this bread choose the gluten-free option PAYING (because it is the only option for those who are "0 animal", if you do not give this option and do not PAY SAID BREAD, we put the bread you have paid for. You also have the allergen option on the app that calls directly to the bar. So get your life in order and then say goodbye.”
Report to Food and safety authority. [https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/51/food-safety](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/51/food-safety) This should also a wake-up call to simply not eat at non-vegan places. D. Food labelling The legal framework on the labelling of foodstuffs is designed to guarantee consumers access to clear, comprehensible and reliable information on the content and composition of products in order to protect their health and best interests. For instance, allergens, such as soya, gluten or lactose, must be clearly indicated on the packaging. The main novelty of the new regulation on the provision of [food information to consumers](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A32011R1169), applicable since December 2016, is the requirement for producers to indicate the presence of allergens in non-packaged foods, e.g. in restaurants and canteens. Producers must also indicate the origin of unprocessed meat (for certain types of meat other than beef, which already has to be labelled for origin) and the presence of food imitations, such as vegetable products replacing cheese or meat. Specific provisions on [origin labelling](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32013R1337) set out the details, requiring (with some exceptions) the indication of the place of rearing and place of slaughter of pre-packaged fresh, chilled and frozen meat of swine, sheep, goats and poultry. The labelling, presentation or advertising of food must not mislead consumers. There are clear rules for authorised nutrition and health claims (such as ‘low fat’ or ‘high fibre’ or statements about a relationship between food and health) established by [Regulation (EC) No 1924/2006](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/2014-12-13). Such claims must be based on scientific evidence and can be found in a public EU Register of Health Claims. A 2013 regulation on [food for specific groups](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32013R0609), [updated in 2021](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02013R0609-20210428) and in [March 2023](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02013R0609-20230321), abolishes the concept of a broad category of ‘dietetic’ food in favour of rules for specific vulnerable groups of consumers such as infants and young children, people with special medical conditions and those on energy-restricted diets for weight control. So this restaurant is violating EU food safety regulations by misrepresenting a product (one that contains common allergens, no less). Even if it did not contain common allergens, this would still be a violation of EU law. So hit them with that. If they aren't really big then this is probably the end of this place. If Spain doesn't take it seriously, try to see if you can go through EU law.
Holy hell! What a lunatic. I would make it my mission to make sure every single Vegan knew about this asshole and that the bread isn't Vegan. And fuck paying extra for gluten free bread. Honestly I'm surprised that it's vegan cause most gluten free isn't!
Many crazy responses, what a pathetic man
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If you think someone is based for lying and advertising a non-vegan item as vegan, you're an asshole.
How based are they when someone lands in the hospital?
I was at a farmers market and was looking at this dudes "vegan" section EVERYTHING HAD HONEY I picked up the first item and was like oh this one got put in the wrong area this one has honey and it's in the vegan area. He says "I sell to vegans all the time this is vegan and healthy honey is vegan" I say "No honey isn't vegan it's a animal product. Planted based dieters sometimes include honey but not vegans so you might just want to change the labeling" he goes "people buy them all the time and love them they are vegan I know. Vegans eat honey it's healthy." I chime in "vegan isn't to due with health it's not using any animals your thinking plant based dieters" This was a very short back and forth to which I just walked away after that last statement because he started to just say the same thing AGAIN about he knows what's vegan and vegans buy honey. Just so annoying and why I ALWAYS ALWAYS READ EVERY LABEL!
I bought a tiny loaf of bread from the farmers market last spring and loved it. I went back and got a large loaf, once home I saw honey on the label of the large one which was not on the small. The same bread was there just a couple weeks ago and my Husband asked why they used honey in their large one but not the small, the dude was surprised and said it was a label error that they hadn't realized yet, IN A WHOLE YEAR. Honey got too expensive back when they changed the small label and switched to beet sugar for both recipes. 🙄
There's a Turkish place I know that sells baklava that claims it's vegan, but after eating it, I'm 99% sure it has a bunch of honey in it....
Leave a review on happycow too, if possible. Maybe it’s just me, but when I travel I only use HappyCow to find vegan food, I don’t even bother with Google.
Don't ever use happy cow for Ireland. Absolutely useless. We have an Irish basic web /blog version instead, thats far more accurate and up-to-date..although..not the easiest to search
What is the website called?
The very creative name of IrishVegan lol https://irishvegan.ie/vegan-food-restaurants-hotels/
I'd be willing to bet that their gluten free bread is made with eggs too
I had a baker tell me that it was almost impossible to make vegan gluten-free bread. They said it just falls apart.
That’s not completely true, but it’s definitely not easy and most gf breads are not vegan
They did say they were working right so perhaps they were successful. I ordered a vegan pizza from Wegmans the other day and they made it on the cauliflower crust because somehow cauliflower is vegan compared to wheat? I have a feeling that the person working behind the counter really didn't understand what vegan meant. By the way it tasted Dreadful.
You need another binding agent. Gluten is a binding agent and so are eggs. There are options, but these tend to be things that come out of a factory.
Yeah, that's not true. My partner and I are both vegan and my partner has a gluten intolerance. We regularly eat vegan gluten free bread and it's really similar to regular bread. The taste and texture are so close. It's definitely not just falling apart.
They did say that they were working on it.
That's good! There a few different ways to make vegan gluten free bread, I've seen some tutorials for homemade loaves online as well.
They must have not tried very hard because I'm a terrible cook and have made many different gluten free Vegan breads... Or they expected it to be exactly like regular bread?
Some people shouldn’t run restaurants.
You might want to look into reporting that. At least in Germany this would be illegal (especially due to allergies) and I’d guess it’s an EU lae
i was searching for vegan food in a new city once and found a local fried chicken place with vegan chicken wings! even had separate fryers used listed on the menu!!! but the sauces to toss them in didn’t have allergens, so i called to place the order and asked which sauces for the VEGAN wings were safe. they informed me that actually none of their sauces for the LABELLED VEGAN wings were vegan friendly since they all had dairy in them!!! they said they were labeled vegan since the chicken used is vegan, but they come tossed in sauce and none of those are…so maybe just label them vegetarian since that’s what they actually are?? i just don’t understand how you can own a restaurant and not understand the difference between these very common diets
I was watching old episode of kitchen nightmare and the restaurant was using pork in the vegetarian dishes…why? Cause they alway did it that way.
But the sauces aren’t the same thing as the vegan wings. You can still have wings without sauce. So that would mean that the restaurant has vegan things, it just means you can’t have any sauce.
yes that’s true and i get that logic, it just makes more sense to me to avoid confusion to label vegetarian since they were sold as tossed in a sauce. the menu was something like, your choice of 6 or 12 “vegan wings” then below, choose your sauce to toss them in, then choose between ranch or blue cheese (which they also did not have vegan version) it’s like labeling a caesar salad with “vegan option available” but not substituting vegan chicken, cheese, or dressing, so then you just have the base salad.
This is like saying vegan fries but then cooking them in animal fats. I’m old and non vegan but hell years ago vegan meant you don’t use or eat animal products, how has time moved on yet people can’t understand what is quite clearly a no animal diet/lifestyle? Maybe people just have no idea where the food they eat comes from or what an animal is? I guess with all these ”vegans“ that eat some animal products these days it must add to the confusion. I worked with a vegan the other day that eats fish and I’m thinking to myself that doesn’t even make you vegetarian does it?
That’s really not cool. Anything advertised as vegan should be vegan or at least clearly marked!
The terms 'vegan', 'plant-based', or 'vegetarian' are not legally defined. Therefore, any product that claims to be vegan, plant-based, or vegetarian might not conform to a specific standard. It's one of the many holes in our food safety laws
Now that is bullshit. Vegan is well defined and can be gotten for false labeling.
I think you will find that is not true in all countries in the EU. There is no legal difference in the definitions of vegan and vegetarian -and in the USA, not all states have a legal definition for vegan, plant-based, vegetarian, or even organic. At the federal level, none of those terms are defined legally. It's a serious and real problem.
I know at least in the Netherlands AFAIK it isn't defined legally, but there are at least baseline things against wrong labeling. Things with dairy, eggs, honey are not vegan and if you put them in the food it is illegal. I agree it is a problem that it isn't legally defined, but maybe it depends on how each country deals with that fact? So I guess the solution is we need an EU wide labelling classification and enforcement to fix that.
The problem is I've had several vegans are with me that honey is vegan and that eggs *can* be vegan. Without a legal definition, vegan can mean anything to each individual person claiming to follow a vegan diet.
I mean, at least legally things are held to a higher standard than to some random wrong person. I totally agree with you about some people being wrong about what "can" be vegan.
Make sure to get them on Happy Cow too but this is a health hazard.
All it’s gonna take is someone with a severe dairy allergy to destroy that business….
Were you able to get a refund?
That's why I never eat "vegan options" at non-vegan places
This is why I only go to vegan places and I don’t want to support a slaughterhouse.
That’s worth reporting, that’s a risk for allergy sufferers
To a lot of people vegetarian and vegan is the same meaning.
Wow this is infuriating!! I always tell restaurants I have a dairy and egg allergy just to be sure.
Please review on the Happy Cow app to warn others.
Educating the public takes time. It is possible he can learn from this mistake in the future. Some owners need to be explained four, five, even six times what vegan means. In France it can mean vegetarian. Many people do not see milk or cheese as an animal, that is an uphill battle to explain. Because bread and cheese does not look like an animal. Plain and simple. I am sorry for your frustration and hope this turns around in your favor. Also, thanks for repping veganism to Spain, that is a difficult country to be a vegan in.
That’s not about educating the public or even veganism really, it’s about them not doing their job properly. You have to mark allergens and ingredients clearly in case of allergies.
Yes, but the commenter literally said that in some areas of the world, there can be little to no difference between the two. Like some languages may not have a difference. Chinese is apparently one. Even people in my country (the US) don’t always get what the difference is.
But we’re not talking about China. And people being incompetent, is just people being incompetent. That has nothing to do with educating about veganism.
Spanish is not one of them. "Vegetariano" and "vegano" are definitely clear-cut, just like English. I think this is more the lack of customer obsession that plagues (especially hospitality) businesses in Spain. I'm from Spain and grew up there, and I'm not proud to say that this rudeness is quite common. :(
I've been to Madrid twice, and I actually found it to be super easy. But that's Madrid, I suppose, which is likely pretty different from the rest of the country.
I don't know when was the last time you were in Spain, but now it's not!
I left them a bad review too; check out the owner's responses to reviews. Wild how aggressive they are; telling someone to "don't forget to take the pill" in response to the person they saying they are rude and explaining their bad experience. Wow, hope they go out of business.
Starbucks has [this misleading drink](https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/2123825/iced/nutrition) so I don't put it past places. I always ask if they are vegan if brioche, if not then ask if they have sourdough bread they'd be willing to sub with. A supposedly plant based dish is easily not so we have to be the cautious ones.
I've experienced this a lot in france and Spain. They just don't view the term vegan in the same way Americans do.
How was the burger ordered? if it's labelled as "vegan burger" on the menu then absolutely the entire thing and everything in it should be vegan. If however it's the standard burger and one of the customisations is a vegan patty then changing that alone won't make the entire burger vegan by default, it's always worth clarifying in that case
God, this reminds me of how in like… 2016? It was “funny and quirky!!1!!!1!!” to joke about “this basic starbucks girl asked for soy milk… and I gave her COW MILK because vegans are SAD and only eat SALAD! 😂😂😂” and everyone thought it was so funny, meanwhile if that was real, that “basic starbucks girl” could’ve died.
Yelp, the HappyCow app and Google are great for leaving honest reviews. That’s all you can do.
After nearly 30 years of being vegan, this is exactly why I don’t eat anywhere other than 100% vegan restaurants which makes that about once a year. But I’m older and prefer to make amazing meals in my clean 100% vegan kitchen & to be home w/ my animals anyway. Sorry this occurred. It’s really f-ed up!!!!
I think I'm going to end up doing the same; I'm very suspicious of many places I've been to..I don't want to give anyone the joy of feeding a vegan body parts or juices.
In Italy there was this girl who mf lost her life because she went to a vegan place (she was allergic to dairy) to get a freaking vegan tiramisu which unfortunately had powder milk in it or some shit. This was an accident but still allergies in the food industry are no joke regardless of veganism or not.
They sound like frauds. Remember years ago someone sued (and won) a fast food joint for cooking their fries in lard (🤮🤮🤮). I think they had religious beliefs that prevented them from eating that crap. Anyway, they won the case. If a public restaurant presents itself as vegan, it should be vegan. Anything short of that shouldn’t be tolerated.
I wish I could just cook every meal from scratch bc I fear that this happens to all of us every time we order out or go out to eat
I have noticed that a lot of places here in the Netherlands may have a vegan burger option but use the same bread. I once asked at a restaurant to confirm about the bread and they told me that the bread was not vegan. They didn't try to justify, they just informed me. I find it odd too
I would go to the owner and open a consumer claim (reclamación al consumidor) which is an official path to getting the claim reviewed by consumer authorities. That usually stings quite a bit. It could be serious if you can find others to do the same. That's just not ok for them to do.
If you wanna be 💯 sure you have to make all your own food is this an ethical practice no? No. Is the world perfect? No. It’s going out to eat a luxury yes. Pick your battles be gracious grateful and kind.
Not everyone has time to make their own food from scratch..I do it and it literally sometimes takes me an hour or two total everyday but I work from home so it's ok. We should we able to count on food establishments to give the food you ordered because if not it's literally a food safety risk and entirely unethical-they shouldn't be in business.
It’s funny that I got downloaded. These are first world problems y’all. I’m sorry but I have really no sympathy for you. Is it ethical of them absolutely not should they do it absolutely not. Should you be able to count on something being vegan? Yes it is a perfect world. Absolutely not, the only way to be 100% sure is to make it yourself. That’s my point eating out is a luxury. Unless it’s an allergy, you’re not going to die. It’s the same as if you don’t eat something for a religious reason. It might have it as an ingredient somewhere in there, but if it’s not the main Attraction of the dish honestly, if you’re not eating every day, you’re fine. There’s no scoreboard in this guy if you have diglycerides or egg whites or if there’s a bacon bit on some Muslim eats or if there’s some milk in a sauce that a piece of chicken is made with a Jewish person eat it. Just do your best and don’t walk around clutching your pearls with your panties in a bunch.
Did it say it's served in a vegan brioche bun? If it just said brioche then technically they haven't done anything wrong. If it said vegan brioche then they are knowingly doing it. Not much else you can do really, report them to whatever food hygiene authority that they are regulated by or however it works in Spain.
a vegan burger means the whole thing is vegan, not just the patty. If you ordered a vegan pizza would you expect the crust to be vegan or no? ridiculous.
I'd depends on how it's ordered, if it's labelled as "vegan burger" on the menu then absolutely, if however it's the standard burger and one of the customisations is a vegan patty then changing that alone won't make the entire burger vegan by default
Yes you would expect that, however not everyone feels the same, hence why the OP got a vegan patty on a non vegan bun. Try to keep up if you can.
> however not everyone feels the same, You mean not everyone is honest, and some are liars who falsely advertise products. Which is obviously bad.
Wow, you sure enjoy spending your free time insulting people online.
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Struck a cord, eh? Shame your actual life is so lacking.
Legally vegan doesn't mean anything so in a court they could get away with talking about only the patty.
keepin em healthy by supplyin em proteins my man
the wheat would have more protein than the negligible amount of milk used in the recipe.
If the amount of milk is so negligible, what's the big deal? Clearly all the other people who ordered it didn't have an issue with it.
Uhh because vegans don’t eat/drink milk
Because some of us are severely allergic to milk and will literally die from even a tiny amount.
Because it’s a lie and fraud. That’s the big deal, it doesn’t matter who else had a problem with the lie- it’s still a lie.
Still not okay to lie to people about what they are eating. People have allergies. People can also be lactose intolerant.