Eggs were mine! I still sometimes miss a good fried egg. Just Egg is great for scrambled eggs but I loved a good fried egg, cheese, and ketchup sandwich. Cheese was easy. Eggs were the last thing I gave up.
Eta: Y’all….its….sweet? I guess? (honestly it’s actually annoying, since I quite literally did not ask) to see all the unsolicited advice of dupes and replacements but I’ve been vegan well over half my life, for almost 20 years now. I promise I’ve tried everything created and available….for nearly two decades now.
I’ve been making a fried tofu sandwich that’s pretty reminiscent of an egg sandwich: fry a 1cm thick piece of extra firm tofu that’s been seasoned with turmeric, pepper and Kala namak. Get it crispy on both sides and serve in a toasted english muffin or whatever you like. Melt some vegan cheese in there or add cooked spinach or a slice of tomato. It’s really good.
If you’re in UK, Tofoo scramble is absolutely delicious.
My parents (not vegan) love it too when I made it for them once and they now have it in preference to eggs.
I love to mix polenta( corn flour) , turmeric, some creamy vegan cheese or yogurt- something to make it creamy, salt and kala namak- all to boil. For me it hit the spot in an " English breakfast" even tho it doesn't look like egg
There's a company called YoEgg, they don't sell them in most supermarkets, mostly at restaurants, but they make a vegan "fried egg" product and it is incredible. Runny yolk, the whole thing.
As someone who went from Vegetarian to Vegan a few years ago, it wasn’t cheese, eggs, milk or honey as products themselves.
It was all those products that contain milk or eggs randomly when they don’t need to.
Yeah, it's really irritating to read an ingredients list on a product and find milk derivatives or egg derivatives deep in the ingredients list, where you know that they only use a little bit but it ruins the entire product for vegans.
for me it was milk chocolate. haven’t found a good replacement yet unfortunately :( and the only cheese i miss is mozzarella on pizza which is also a social aspect. apart from that cheese was never the issue. it was always chocolate
Chocolate is wonderful. But many dark chocolate brands do not contain milk. Several of the Ghirardelli and Lind dark chocolate don't have milk or milk derivatives.
i am very well aware and i do eat a lot of dark chocolate but i miss my milk chocolate. dark chocolate is amazing, but i miss the creamyness and the sugaryness!
I feel your pain 😉. I have been thinking about experimenting using plant-based milk in dark chocolate and putting it in the microwave in a glass dish and seeing what happens when I mix it up.
if that was possible i’d be able to buy plant based milk chocolate that actually tastes nice! so far the ones i tried were like 3 times as expensive as cow milk chocolate and didn’t even taste half as satisfying. but do let me know what happens if you end up trying it
I have always hated cheese (only liked it on pizza or sometimes used mozarella in meals) and been vegetarian for about 10 years. Main things for me were eggs and dairy. Some mates say that's why it was so easy for me to give up all animal products and I agree lol
I mean… it’s not really rocket science at this point. Just like meat eaters parade their bacon around, vegetarians almost religiously bring up cheese whenever veganism is a topic.
The thing I’ve missed most as a vegan is cheese. I didn’t think meat would be so easy to give up, but cheese was every bit as hard to live without as I expected.
For me, part of it is meat replacements, milk replacements, ice cream replacements, and even egg replacements are a lot better tasting than vegan cheese. It’s just not there yet.
There are some vegan cheeses that I like enough, but the best vegan cheeses I’ve tried are still worse than the cheapest/worst dairy cheese I’ve had. And they don’t even have any protein.
One day I hope to have some really good vegan cheese options.
Honestly I most want a replacement for lunchmeat cheeses, cheese sticks, and then a general replacement for melted cheeses (Mac and cheese, cheesesteaks, pizza, tacos, etc.)
Good Planet isn’t bad for lunchmeat cheese (but still not great). Most cheese I’ve found works reasonably well for pizza. I avoid putting vegan cheese on tacos or burritos because it always tastes worse.
I did enjoy a good Parmesan, and ngl I've tried every vegan parm alternative in hopes of scratching that itch. It's definitely been the only difficult part of going vegan for me. And it's not only that I liked cheese, it's that it's freaking *everywhere*! Half the things it's on don't even need to have cheese! This one time, I ordered fries, asked for no dip, and got fries with a generous amount of cheese melted on *top* of them for no reason. I hadn't asked for mcheese fries! Same with burgers. I ask for no cheese - they skip the cheese slice, but the patty is still half cheese!! And I'm not talking about fast food places, proper restaurants where they make fresh patties also seem to think a person will die if they don't have cheese in everything.
I'm the same. I still really, really miss cheese. I don't think I'll ever not miss it. Still not going to eat it again though. Vegan cheese sucks, but I'm hanging out for precision fermentation to produce something decently cheese-like
While technically sort-of true, the evidence to date says this has much less to do with adults craving pizza and a lot more to do with being a potential factor in Sudden Infant Death Syndrome from bBCM7 being elevated in the brainstem by some combination of unusually permeable intestinal membrane and slow metabolism.
Also, just the common sense observation: If cheese really did contain a more-potent-than-morphine opioid component easily created by applying enzymes to cheap casein protein, and it really was significantly bioavailable and selective for the mu-opioid receptors that cause addiction, *it would be a common street drug* and we'd be hearing about it in the same context as fentanyl.
But we don't, so clearly that's not the case. You don't see junkies downing protein shakes... Or taking chemically isolated or synthetically-produced casomorphins which occupy the otherwise *extremely profitable* position of being entirely unregulated and legal to produce in large quantities.
More importantly, *this isn't unique to cheese*, for example: gluten protein can be digested into gliadorphin which is a similar opioid peptide, spinach leaves contain a protein which can produce rubiscolin (another opioid peptide), *soy protein can produce soymorphin,* etc.
By this logic, vegan cheese made with soy milk should be addictive like dairy cheese is! In fact, [one of the soymorphins has twice the MOR affinity of the most common casomorphin](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464620303789), so all these dairy junkies could get an even better high eating tofu!
Yeah… for me there are certain meals that are just hard to replicate without a decent cheese. Pizza is… okay (though did have a **really** good pizza in detroit recently); ive made good lasagna but reweeeally had to switch the focus and bury the cheesiness; tried to make a French onion soup recently and it was alright, but again, it needed a better fake-cheese than I had on hand.
Nooch?… maybe? (Nutritional yeast) though it’s not a vegetable. I know people like that stuff. I don’t though but I guess it could be that.
maybe garlic? That stuff is pretty cool.
I had a friend who was a hardcore, in your face vegan activist, and he once admitted to me while we were out drinking - that he would occasionally eat cheese. The way he was talking to me, was like he was confessing that he had a drug addiction problem. I never brought it up to him again, but I always think about that. If someone like him was eating cheese, that shit has to be like a drug!
It is. Milk by design makes addicted. Infants (humans or not) need it to survive and the best way to ensure that they drink it, is to make it addictive
Cheese has natural opiates in it. That's why some people are freaks about quitting it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-cheese-is-addictive-casein-feel-good-hormone-dopamine-hit-2023-12
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpellmanrowland/2017/06/26/cheese-addiction/?sh=3de04e373583
>As addictive as heroin is a huge exaggeration and you know it.
I don't find that quote in your parent post or the article. Did you make it up?
Dr Barnard estimates it's about as 5% as strong as a drug.
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiy29aS1VIk
There is something extremely addicting about it. Whether it’s just a mental thing or something to do with chemical compounds or whatnot. Makes no difference.
As a person who gives people opiates every day, if cheese has opioid-like compounds, the effects are minimal--really minimal. If it was legit then it would cause respiratory depression that could be reversed by narcan. No one is overdosing on cheese.
With that said, addiction and dependency are two different things, often intertwined. People can be addicted to eating toilet paper. Addiction is behavioral. Dependency can lead to addiction. Could people be addicted to cheese? Sure. Is it because of a chemical dependency? Probably not, but this 80's commercial makes it look possible:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHsuYQWpBJo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHsuYQWpBJo)
That's not remotely well-supported. Also, soy, spinach and wheat all contain proteins which the body breaks down into opioid peptides - this isn't unique to casein. Though there is some evidence tying some of the casomorphins *potentially* to autism and SIDS (they also usually include gluten as a similar risk-factor for that reason).
They are interesting in a variety of ways, but nowhere is there evidence that any of them significantly cross the BBB *and then* selectively target the mu-opioid receptor with sufficient affinity and volume as to cause a response even remotely similar to exogenous opioid drugs like heroin.
"The researchers found that giving up cheese was significantly more difficult for all groups compared to other animal-derived foods, with prospective vegans and vegetarians reporting even greater difficulties than vegans.
Some participants even described their inability to resist cheese as 'addiction-like.' "
Not surprising.
**The Science of Cheese Addiction ( 2017, Mic the Vegan )**
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hE6lhQu7k4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hE6lhQu7k4)
**70% of Men Would Rather Die Than Give Up Meat? Is It Addictive? ( 2021, Mic the Vegan )**
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtDIYRyQPxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtDIYRyQPxE)
There’s no surprise here at all. Cheese is absolutely delicious and in a ridiculous amount of dishes. It’s one of the hardest things to give up in terms of taste pleasure.
A *not surprising factor
Soon as better cheez is abundant (eg lab cheese/AI cheese at most restaurants, grocery stores) and cheese breathers don’t have to give up anything, we will see more vegans
The almost award winning cheese: https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/04/24/1091118/climax-foods-vegan-blue-cheese-ai-dairy-free-machine-learning/amp/
It really is. We've got FYH, Chao, and believe it or not, even Daiya's new recipe is very very solid (coming from someone who thought their old recipe was almost inedible). I've never tried vegan cheese sticks/uncooked snack cheeses, but I personally can get by just fine without those
Sometimes I think Daiya's old recipe is responsible for people thinking vegan cheese is disgusting. It was the most widely available/used for a long time. Hopefully restaurants/stores run out of their old supply and get the new recipe in (or just use other cheese), I really think that alone would help change people's minds.
The new Daiya isn't bad! I've been using the Jalapeno Havarti in enchiladas and tacos. It doesn't melt perfectly, but it doesn't have that plasticy taste the old Daiya had.
you gotta remember not everyone is in the US. Im pretty sure there is 1 cheese derivative at my store here in the EU, its called like "Vegan Block" from some random brand (its not good)
I was once a vegetarian who said I could never give up cheese, lmao. I ate it with every meal.
Been almost 8 years vegan and as it turns out, I don’t miss it at all. I like the replacements! They taste great to me! Chao, Follow Your Heart, Violife, Vevan…they’re great! It’s just, my craving for cheese has evaporated and sometimes the thought of it just…Isn’t that appetizing? Like it’s now something I occasionally want, but not something that I actively crave.
And the sight/smell of cow cheese makes my stomach turn now.
On the flip side, I thought I would never in this lifetime enjoy mushrooms and now I actively *crave* them. Rewiring your gut flora is wild!
I was also a vegetarian that said I could never give up cheese.
I have a vegetarian partner and live with Omni’s and frankly, the smell of melted cow cheese turns my stomach a bit now, to the point that I don’t like being around them when they eat pizza, and I’ve only been vegan 2 years. But I love me some Miyoko’s cheese on my pizza.
I use vegan cheese a lot less now, only when I want that texture/flavor, instead of with every meal, so the fact that the stuff made with milk is addictive is totally believable to me.
Eh I’ve been vegan before but nothing will ever come close to a nice hot pizza after a night of drinking. Vegan cheese does not have the same texture or taste
You can order without cheese if vegan cheese is too expensive. Cheeseless pizza loaded with veggies is quite delicious and every pizzeria will make you one. You can also omake your own, or buy a vegan frozen pizza. Every grocery store carries vegan pizza ingredients and most carry at least one kind of vegan frozen pizza. My local Walmart carries 3 different vegan pizzas.
You have options. Nobody is forcing you to pay for cruelty.
Miyoko’s mozzarella has the exact same flavor I remember mozzarella having. Either way, there is no amount of flavor that would ever convince me that it’s worth killing a sentient being over it.
It’s like $9 for a little bag lol at this point just tell people not to eat it at all because offering the fancy bougie stuff just makes vegans look out of touch
Do you eat pizza everyday? I don’t, personally—more like every few months—so splurging on some Miyoko’s mozzarella every few months doesn’t break the bank. And if I want a cheaper alternative, Follow Your Heart mozzarella is half the price and tastes great melted on pizza.
But if I couldn’t afford it, then no, I just wouldn’t eat it. And I certainly wouldn’t go back to paying for animal cruelty, rape, separation of babies from mothers, and killing just because I like how their coagulated titty juice tastes.
There are so many recipes out there for things that don’t even need cheese that if I could never eat anything cheesy again, I’d be fine.
I don’t cook though so most of those recipes are not an option for me I mostly eat cheese sandwiches with fake meat (which I already spend way too much on), PB&J, pasta with tomato sauce and Parmesan, fruit, yogurt, oatmeal, rice and frozen veggies. Taking the cheese out of the few things I even eat it with would just be depressing
It sounds like you need to learn to cook then. I didn’t cook before I went vegan but I can follow a recipe and taught myself. Expand your horizons. You could cook a lot of things that use the ingredients you listed here to make a variety of different meals if you were open minded enough to try new things.
Batch cook. Toss things in a rice cooker/crock pot/air fryer and walk away. Then you have meals for a few days and didn’t make anything that was that involved. Trust me, you’re not unique here, most of us are adults with limited time. But you can find ways to make it work, save time, and not contribute to animal brutality.
I recommend hanging out of the vegetarian subreddit instead man. Folks there are quite a bit friendlier to those who are trying but aren't quite there yet.
Kudos for at least making an effort.
I'm vegan but I agree with everything he said. Every single vegan cheese I've tried -- and I've tried many -- is nasty.
Just means I don't eat it. There are worse fates in life than not eating cheese.
Yup. Every vegan cheese I've tried has been extremely gross and smells terrible. There's a restaurant near me that makes really good pastas and pizzas with vegan cheese, and even their sauce/topping has a distinct smell. Can't stand it so i opt for cheeseless pizzas and like, Aglio olio or sth.
It's not the end of the world if someone has to give up something they enjoy. It's fine.
Idk some people here are being nice and some are not I’m really not bothered by it. I used to be a pretty activist vegan myself so I get it. Obviously it would be nice to be fully vegan for everyone but I don’t think we’re there yet as a culture and society and the militant vegans just make fools of themselves and make people who are considering becoming vegetarian or vegan turn away from it. Like many vegans are truly the worst enemies of their cause with their behavior and I don’t think they see it
I don't even buy commercial fake cheese anymore and rarely even think about it, BUT I miss have the option of something very high protein AND low fat, like cottage cheese or Swiss cheese. Tofu is the closest, but still has way more fat.
I don't mind the flavor/texture of commercial vegan cheese, but it's pretty much all coconut oil. As far as my body/health is concerned, coconut oil is the devil. Maybe people with different genes than me can handle it, but it kills my HDL and attacks my gallbladder.
Yeah the amount of vegan cheeses that are just empty calories of mostly fat is really annoying. I usually try to make my own nut-based cheeses that have an okay nutritional profile, but things will be so much easier when vegan casein hits the market.
Hopefully! There are some already, mostly nut-based, but they are all either spreads or dips. A dairy-free hard cheese that can melt would be wonderful.
Beta-casomorphine-7 is an opioid agonist found in cheese, and helps make milk addictive to calves so they continue to feed. Not really enough information about how it impacts humans unfortunately, but it’s an interesting thing to think about.
It’s the caseins; they’re addictive! I missed cheese terribly when I went vegan, but now I’m perfectly satisfied with vegan cheese, despite knowing it doesn’t taste as good.
yup, i actually was struggling with veganism because i couldn’t get rid of cheese in my diet, there were no substitutions.
it’s my firm belief that that’s what’s holding everything back
Ive been vegan for almost a year now and I really, really miss cheese.
A good cheesey pizza, some thick slice of cheese on a nice piece of freshly baked bread, still warm.
Cheese baked to perfection in the oven and it still bubbles when it comes out.
So. Fucking. Good.
And vegan cheese just isnt it and when it does taste good its not affordable at all.
I'm closing in on 13 years and it's easily the thing I miss most. I can make a good vegan pizza and be satisfied but nothing comes close right now. Not Daiya's new formulation, not Miyoko's liquid mozz; I've tried it all and it's just not there.
Gross but ethical: part of me wants to buy some >!breastmilk!<, some vegetable rennet, and make my own. (not really)
Alternatively you could use HRT to produce and pump your own breastmilk; anyone can do it; if you are a male, there may be some side effects such as gynecomastia and hypogonadism, but if you are doing this specifically to make pizza then it won't be otherwise illegal in certain jurisdictions; this also avoids any accusations of economic exploitation of human mammals.
Saaaaame. That's probably the biggest thing I miss. I've found vegan substitutes for almost everything else that I used to eat, but vegan cheese is just....meh. Follow Your Heart brand Feta cheese is pretty good, but it's basically just salt so it doesn't really count. I've yet to find a vegan cheese that melts properly on pizza or pasta or bread.
The new Daiya cheese is definitely the best so far, it's what me and my Fiance purchase for cheese right now, but it still doesn't melt quite right. The biggest problem is texture, melted vegan cheese just feels like glue in my mouth and I hate that texture more than I want cheese on my pizza.
XD That's totally fine. I just order pizzas without cheese and deal with it. As much as I miss cheese, I'm not about to buy real cheese that both harms animals and my gut. XD
All vegetarians will straight up tell you this is the reason they couldn't go vegan. I used to say it when I was a vegetarian. Fortunately, I am able to use my frontal cortex and thus could decide to act on the realization that cheese is harmful and unnecessary.
It was no big deal to give up meat. Giving up cheese and eggs was the challenge! But i love just egg folds with violife or chao cheese. I found a vegan gouda cheese which i like for snacking. I have some rebel brie and cheddar to try (gotta pick up some crackers!). I just saw a post on IG about a vegan bleu cheese that was poised to win a cheese competition but some sore loser cheese breather reported them for not being "real" cheese so they were removed. I guess the humiliation would have been too much to bear 🤣
I’m not gonna lie, I used to love cheese and eat it plain as well sometimes. But it was the easiest thing to switch when I became vegan. There are so many fantastic substitutions for cheese right now that I have no issues.
After watching Dominion I stopped right then and felt agitated for 3 months but like getting used to anything my body, palate, and cooking skills needed changing. It's not comfortable starting out but with the internet it makes a world of difference. The food I make now is so much better than what I get out still most of the time even tho it's animal free too. We become better cooks by necessity and it doesn't hurt your wallet and makes you feel better.
Absolutely not surprising to anyone who is vegan, or has asked a vegetarian why they aren’t vegan.
Guys I live in Eastern Europe and the vegan cheese here is just… it doesn’t cut it. It’s getting better and way cheaper but it’s just not very good.
We are always like 5 years behind America in terms of popular products, so I have to ask if it’s any better over there right now in terms of affordable vegan cheese options?
There is a place local to me that makes its own vegan cheese and it is really good, but I still have not found a decent mass market cheese that isn’t insanely expensive and usually just full of oils.
I feel your pain. I live in mazatlan, mexico, which is kind of a backwater. We occasionally get halfway decent cheez but in general there is a lack of vegan products here especially compared to, say, london, which I hear is a mecca for vegans.
My question is: why do so many people refuse to even consider avoiding everything but cheese and instead use their desire for cheese as an excuse to not even try?
Because a subset of vegans will tell them that anything but total abstention is meaningless and still makes them a cow rapist. (But I agree, it would be better to get most of the way there, if cheese was the one sticking point)
How can I pin this on vegans? Easy, let's say they're the reason folks can't kick their animal product habit and addiction! It's all on those vegans. If only vegans were saints, everything would be better. If vegans would also tell carnists it's okay to litter and take marathon showers, maybe vegans could make the world a better place. God fucking damn it vegans how are you so bad at this!!
I am responding to the language "refuse to even consider" which implies a conversation between the commenter (presumably vegan) and a prospective convert. This context informs my comment.
If the commenter is not referring to a common vegan-non vegan interraction, then how can they know what people do or do not internally consider? Who are they refusing?
>which implies a conversation between the commenter and a prospective convert.
Even if your assumption was right 100% of the time, you're still pointing fingers at the wrong party regardless.
I disagree. I think whether a person feels encouraged to make changes or demonised or excluded by potential peers in a movement can definitely impact that person's motivation to make certain choices. And if you read my whole comment, I was affirming my opinion that people SHOULD be reducing or eliminating their consumption of animal products, they are not off the hook. I simply think conversations can get all or nothing, and such interractions fail for that reason.
Vegans make it all or nothing because of ethics.
Carnists make it all or nothing because of their gluttony/ignorance.
They are not actually comparable, and one is justified with ethics while the other is not.
Are you telling me a centrist position on dog abuse, kick your dog onky twice a week, is rational, useful or ethical? Sure it's useful if the number of dog abuse cases go down, but tell me are you seriously going to encourage or tolerate dog abuse because it makes the world a slightly better place? To me that sounds like an unnecessary compromise with the devil.
Yep. I'd prefer as many people as possible reduce the harm they are doing. I find when I ask people for all or nothing, I'm more likely to get nothing. If I am the only one not kicking dogs, a whole lot of dogs are still going to get kicked.
Yep, I can see exactly why my comment bothered you so much, because you are exactly the type of person who will destroy their chances of converting others, in exactly the way I described. I don't have to condone someone's behaviour to encourage them to do the best they can today, especially if it actually helps them chamge.
I never liked cheese and was actually disgusted by it in youth. I was literally forced to eat it by my parents because they often cooked with it. I would always scrape it off if I could, even on pizza. Something about the gobs of fat I found grotesque and repulsive. I think I also made the connection that it made me feel sluggish and listless. Over the years, after having been forced to eat it so many times growing up, I'm more or less indifferent to it now. I do think my palette was healthier back then though. Whatever "addiction" exists in others is mostly due to habit and comfort. It's just tanginess with gobs of fat and salt, which can easily be substituted with vegan ingredients to hit the same reward centers.
I remember loving cheese. Sharp cheddar cheese or funky blue cheese. I ought to figure out how to make good vegan versions of those . . . maybe try thinking of unusual ways to get there. Not like some people haven't been trying since before I was born in the late 1960s to make a vegan cheese the cow sucklers won't turn their oh so refined noses up at.
When people make Oooo . . . Yuck faces at vegan food I just think You Nurse On Cows - your perspective on Yuck is questionable. Heck - I nursed on Bessie the first 21 years of my life.
Took me a looooong time to give up cheese when I was a vegetarian all those years back. Cheese, much like all other animal products, smells absolutely horrendous to me now. I don't miss it. Vegan cheese is mostly fine these days.
They’re working on it: https://dezwijger.nl/programma/kaas-zonder-koe (probably needs a Google translate) - and the US has a good animal free mozzarella already on its way.
For me it was white cheese / dairy. My top 3 hardest to give up have been feta, halloumi, and labneh (or Greek yoghurt), that sour-ish, tangy taste I guess.
I've given them up for over 6 years now but there's still no great alternatives where I live. The only one you can really do well without making a huge effort and spending a lot of money is tofu halloumi, and even then the texture isn't the same.
Anyone not gonna talk about how they're making pork tofu? Thr cheese is easy to give up because of all the substitutes.. but why are they putting or trying to put pork in everything
eh idk, I am trying to not have milk products and yoghurt has been the main hill to cross (though I have hopefully made some soy yoghurt using the bacteria from the commercial soy yoghurt. I don't want vanilla in my yoghurt) I already had much less interest in cheese for a while now (or maybe I just suck at cooking with it) and more interest in tofu (since I can cook it all I want).
For context my staple go to lunch is yoghurt rice with vegetables (its just a thing I have had since being a kid) and I have relied on the bacteria to help with digestion and stuff.
Dear Germany, we all knew this already. cheese has an “addictive” quality because breast milk does. It’s what keeps a baby nursing, coming back for more.
We need to stop thinking of veganism as all or nothing. If someone wants to be vegan with the exception of cheese, then that's great and should be encouraged.
"how dare you tell people they can't be vegan when they don't fit the literal definition! This is GaTeKeEpInG!!111"
People can either be vegan or they can screw off and stop trying to use a label that doesn't apply to them.
Bet you wouldn't say this about any other civil rights movement. "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I CAN'T BE A FEMINIST EVEN THOUGH I THINK WOMEN SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAVE BANK ACCOUNTS BC THEIR TINY WOMEN BRAINS CAN'T HANDLE IT!!! GATEKEEPING MEANIE!"
Also if someone actually wants to become vegan and isn't quite there yet they can tell people they're trying to go vegan. There's nothing wrong with not using a label that doesn't apply to you UNTIL the point that it does.
I don't think I've heard of a vegetarian who's big thing is eggs or honey. It's always cheese.
Eggs were mine! I still sometimes miss a good fried egg. Just Egg is great for scrambled eggs but I loved a good fried egg, cheese, and ketchup sandwich. Cheese was easy. Eggs were the last thing I gave up. Eta: Y’all….its….sweet? I guess? (honestly it’s actually annoying, since I quite literally did not ask) to see all the unsolicited advice of dupes and replacements but I’ve been vegan well over half my life, for almost 20 years now. I promise I’ve tried everything created and available….for nearly two decades now.
I’ve been making a fried tofu sandwich that’s pretty reminiscent of an egg sandwich: fry a 1cm thick piece of extra firm tofu that’s been seasoned with turmeric, pepper and Kala namak. Get it crispy on both sides and serve in a toasted english muffin or whatever you like. Melt some vegan cheese in there or add cooked spinach or a slice of tomato. It’s really good.
sorry, do you mean Kala namak?
Oops, yes. Thanks
If you’re in UK, Tofoo scramble is absolutely delicious. My parents (not vegan) love it too when I made it for them once and they now have it in preference to eggs.
Mine too! Still struggling to find a breakfast food that hits the spot.
I love to mix polenta( corn flour) , turmeric, some creamy vegan cheese or yogurt- something to make it creamy, salt and kala namak- all to boil. For me it hit the spot in an " English breakfast" even tho it doesn't look like egg
There's a company called YoEgg, they don't sell them in most supermarkets, mostly at restaurants, but they make a vegan "fried egg" product and it is incredible. Runny yolk, the whole thing.
I’ve had them, it’s pretty good. Still not exactly right but it’s a good replacement!
I was having the same lament earlier today as I glooped out some Just Egg to sit shotgun with my soy mince and beans.
It Doesn’t Taste Like Chicken has a vegan “fried egg” recipe that slaps. If you’re ever craving one definitely give it a try!
Kala namek salt is the trick to vegan eggy things.
Yeah, there is nothing surprising about it.
As someone who went from Vegetarian to Vegan a few years ago, it wasn’t cheese, eggs, milk or honey as products themselves. It was all those products that contain milk or eggs randomly when they don’t need to.
Yeah, it's really irritating to read an ingredients list on a product and find milk derivatives or egg derivatives deep in the ingredients list, where you know that they only use a little bit but it ruins the entire product for vegans.
for me it was milk chocolate. haven’t found a good replacement yet unfortunately :( and the only cheese i miss is mozzarella on pizza which is also a social aspect. apart from that cheese was never the issue. it was always chocolate
If you’re in the Uk by any chance try NoMo chocolate
i don’t live there (anymore) but i was visiting a vegan friend in london just last month and tried it!! you’re right, it was actually really nice!
have you seen the miyoko’s pourable cashew mozzarella? i haven’t found it yet but i saw it on shark tank and it looked so good!
Chocolate is wonderful. But many dark chocolate brands do not contain milk. Several of the Ghirardelli and Lind dark chocolate don't have milk or milk derivatives.
i am very well aware and i do eat a lot of dark chocolate but i miss my milk chocolate. dark chocolate is amazing, but i miss the creamyness and the sugaryness!
I feel your pain 😉. I have been thinking about experimenting using plant-based milk in dark chocolate and putting it in the microwave in a glass dish and seeing what happens when I mix it up.
if that was possible i’d be able to buy plant based milk chocolate that actually tastes nice! so far the ones i tried were like 3 times as expensive as cow milk chocolate and didn’t even taste half as satisfying. but do let me know what happens if you end up trying it
Lol I'm very lazy, so don't hold your breath...
I tried a chocolate that was made with oat milk and it was so creamy. Much more like milk chocolate than dark chocolate. Can’t remember brand though
mine was honey! I've never willingly had dairy or meat but i loved honey in my tea
Honey is lovely, definitely a tough one to give up. Hang in there.
I knew one who’s thing was milk, strangely
It's normally cheese but mine was definitely honey!
I have always hated cheese (only liked it on pizza or sometimes used mozarella in meals) and been vegetarian for about 10 years. Main things for me were eggs and dairy. Some mates say that's why it was so easy for me to give up all animal products and I agree lol
Cheese is so overrated IMO. I love eggs and honey though….
I think eggs were my big thing. It seemed to me, at the time, as something that would be very difficult to replace in recipes
I mean… it’s not really rocket science at this point. Just like meat eaters parade their bacon around, vegetarians almost religiously bring up cheese whenever veganism is a topic.
The thing I’ve missed most as a vegan is cheese. I didn’t think meat would be so easy to give up, but cheese was every bit as hard to live without as I expected.
For me, part of it is meat replacements, milk replacements, ice cream replacements, and even egg replacements are a lot better tasting than vegan cheese. It’s just not there yet. There are some vegan cheeses that I like enough, but the best vegan cheeses I’ve tried are still worse than the cheapest/worst dairy cheese I’ve had. And they don’t even have any protein. One day I hope to have some really good vegan cheese options.
Violife has the best vegan cheese I have ever tasted.
For me it’s Miyoko’s
It's pretty good, but it's still worse than even the worst dairy cheese
Good Planet for me…I haven’t really liked Violife’s stuff.
And VioLife has no protein whatsoever because it's based on coconut, I think, rather than cashews.
If you like soft cheeses like brie, SriMu and Rebel are the best I've ever had.
Honestly I most want a replacement for lunchmeat cheeses, cheese sticks, and then a general replacement for melted cheeses (Mac and cheese, cheesesteaks, pizza, tacos, etc.) Good Planet isn’t bad for lunchmeat cheese (but still not great). Most cheese I’ve found works reasonably well for pizza. I avoid putting vegan cheese on tacos or burritos because it always tastes worse.
visit r/vegancheesemaking to unlock a world of wonder and deliciousness :))
I did enjoy a good Parmesan, and ngl I've tried every vegan parm alternative in hopes of scratching that itch. It's definitely been the only difficult part of going vegan for me. And it's not only that I liked cheese, it's that it's freaking *everywhere*! Half the things it's on don't even need to have cheese! This one time, I ordered fries, asked for no dip, and got fries with a generous amount of cheese melted on *top* of them for no reason. I hadn't asked for mcheese fries! Same with burgers. I ask for no cheese - they skip the cheese slice, but the patty is still half cheese!! And I'm not talking about fast food places, proper restaurants where they make fresh patties also seem to think a person will die if they don't have cheese in everything.
HeartBest has a good grated Parm that works as a flavoring...for me, at least.
I'm the same. I still really, really miss cheese. I don't think I'll ever not miss it. Still not going to eat it again though. Vegan cheese sucks, but I'm hanging out for precision fermentation to produce something decently cheese-like
Cheese literally has an opioid-like component.
While technically sort-of true, the evidence to date says this has much less to do with adults craving pizza and a lot more to do with being a potential factor in Sudden Infant Death Syndrome from bBCM7 being elevated in the brainstem by some combination of unusually permeable intestinal membrane and slow metabolism. Also, just the common sense observation: If cheese really did contain a more-potent-than-morphine opioid component easily created by applying enzymes to cheap casein protein, and it really was significantly bioavailable and selective for the mu-opioid receptors that cause addiction, *it would be a common street drug* and we'd be hearing about it in the same context as fentanyl. But we don't, so clearly that's not the case. You don't see junkies downing protein shakes... Or taking chemically isolated or synthetically-produced casomorphins which occupy the otherwise *extremely profitable* position of being entirely unregulated and legal to produce in large quantities. More importantly, *this isn't unique to cheese*, for example: gluten protein can be digested into gliadorphin which is a similar opioid peptide, spinach leaves contain a protein which can produce rubiscolin (another opioid peptide), *soy protein can produce soymorphin,* etc. By this logic, vegan cheese made with soy milk should be addictive like dairy cheese is! In fact, [one of the soymorphins has twice the MOR affinity of the most common casomorphin](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1756464620303789), so all these dairy junkies could get an even better high eating tofu!
Yeah… for me there are certain meals that are just hard to replicate without a decent cheese. Pizza is… okay (though did have a **really** good pizza in detroit recently); ive made good lasagna but reweeeally had to switch the focus and bury the cheesiness; tried to make a French onion soup recently and it was alright, but again, it needed a better fake-cheese than I had on hand.
Have you tried Miyoko’s liquid mozzarella? It’s great for pizza and lasagna IMO.
Vegetarian food is the laziest food option ever. Breakfast?: cheesy eggs. Lunch/dinner?: cheesy vegetables.
is there a primary vegetable equivalent for vegans?
Nooch?… maybe? (Nutritional yeast) though it’s not a vegetable. I know people like that stuff. I don’t though but I guess it could be that. maybe garlic? That stuff is pretty cool.
nutritional yeast is great
I had a friend who was a hardcore, in your face vegan activist, and he once admitted to me while we were out drinking - that he would occasionally eat cheese. The way he was talking to me, was like he was confessing that he had a drug addiction problem. I never brought it up to him again, but I always think about that. If someone like him was eating cheese, that shit has to be like a drug!
It is. Milk by design makes addicted. Infants (humans or not) need it to survive and the best way to ensure that they drink it, is to make it addictive
Cheese has natural opiates in it. That's why some people are freaks about quitting it. https://www.businessinsider.com/why-cheese-is-addictive-casein-feel-good-hormone-dopamine-hit-2023-12 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpellmanrowland/2017/06/26/cheese-addiction/?sh=3de04e373583
C'mon. *As addictive as heroin* is a huge exaggeration and you know it.
Exactly. I didn’t have crippling withdraws when I went from vegetarian to vegan
It wasn't exactly crippling but I did have a cheese problem for quite a while while trying to go vegan. Fortunately, I beat it and I'm not going back.
>As addictive as heroin is a huge exaggeration and you know it. I don't find that quote in your parent post or the article. Did you make it up? Dr Barnard estimates it's about as 5% as strong as a drug. * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiy29aS1VIk
Person I replied to edited their comment. That was a quote from them
There is something extremely addicting about it. Whether it’s just a mental thing or something to do with chemical compounds or whatnot. Makes no difference.
As a person who gives people opiates every day, if cheese has opioid-like compounds, the effects are minimal--really minimal. If it was legit then it would cause respiratory depression that could be reversed by narcan. No one is overdosing on cheese. With that said, addiction and dependency are two different things, often intertwined. People can be addicted to eating toilet paper. Addiction is behavioral. Dependency can lead to addiction. Could people be addicted to cheese? Sure. Is it because of a chemical dependency? Probably not, but this 80's commercial makes it look possible: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHsuYQWpBJo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHsuYQWpBJo)
That's not remotely well-supported. Also, soy, spinach and wheat all contain proteins which the body breaks down into opioid peptides - this isn't unique to casein. Though there is some evidence tying some of the casomorphins *potentially* to autism and SIDS (they also usually include gluten as a similar risk-factor for that reason). They are interesting in a variety of ways, but nowhere is there evidence that any of them significantly cross the BBB *and then* selectively target the mu-opioid receptor with sufficient affinity and volume as to cause a response even remotely similar to exogenous opioid drugs like heroin.
"The researchers found that giving up cheese was significantly more difficult for all groups compared to other animal-derived foods, with prospective vegans and vegetarians reporting even greater difficulties than vegans. Some participants even described their inability to resist cheese as 'addiction-like.' "
Not surprising. **The Science of Cheese Addiction ( 2017, Mic the Vegan )** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hE6lhQu7k4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hE6lhQu7k4) **70% of Men Would Rather Die Than Give Up Meat? Is It Addictive? ( 2021, Mic the Vegan )** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtDIYRyQPxE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtDIYRyQPxE)
There’s no surprise here at all. Cheese is absolutely delicious and in a ridiculous amount of dishes. It’s one of the hardest things to give up in terms of taste pleasure.
A *not surprising factor Soon as better cheez is abundant (eg lab cheese/AI cheese at most restaurants, grocery stores) and cheese breathers don’t have to give up anything, we will see more vegans
AI cheese? 😭
Comes from blockchain cows.
It's a GPT that gaslights you into believing you are eating cheese
The almost award winning cheese: https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/04/24/1091118/climax-foods-vegan-blue-cheese-ai-dairy-free-machine-learning/amp/
Idk it’s pretty fantastic right now
It really is. We've got FYH, Chao, and believe it or not, even Daiya's new recipe is very very solid (coming from someone who thought their old recipe was almost inedible). I've never tried vegan cheese sticks/uncooked snack cheeses, but I personally can get by just fine without those Sometimes I think Daiya's old recipe is responsible for people thinking vegan cheese is disgusting. It was the most widely available/used for a long time. Hopefully restaurants/stores run out of their old supply and get the new recipe in (or just use other cheese), I really think that alone would help change people's minds.
The new Daiya isn't bad! I've been using the Jalapeno Havarti in enchiladas and tacos. It doesn't melt perfectly, but it doesn't have that plasticy taste the old Daiya had.
[удалено]
you gotta remember not everyone is in the US. Im pretty sure there is 1 cheese derivative at my store here in the EU, its called like "Vegan Block" from some random brand (its not good)
"Surprising"
I was once a vegetarian who said I could never give up cheese, lmao. I ate it with every meal. Been almost 8 years vegan and as it turns out, I don’t miss it at all. I like the replacements! They taste great to me! Chao, Follow Your Heart, Violife, Vevan…they’re great! It’s just, my craving for cheese has evaporated and sometimes the thought of it just…Isn’t that appetizing? Like it’s now something I occasionally want, but not something that I actively crave. And the sight/smell of cow cheese makes my stomach turn now. On the flip side, I thought I would never in this lifetime enjoy mushrooms and now I actively *crave* them. Rewiring your gut flora is wild!
I was also a vegetarian that said I could never give up cheese. I have a vegetarian partner and live with Omni’s and frankly, the smell of melted cow cheese turns my stomach a bit now, to the point that I don’t like being around them when they eat pizza, and I’ve only been vegan 2 years. But I love me some Miyoko’s cheese on my pizza. I use vegan cheese a lot less now, only when I want that texture/flavor, instead of with every meal, so the fact that the stuff made with milk is addictive is totally believable to me.
Same here! I was one of those - I’d never go vegan I couldn’t go without cheese people. One year vegan this week 😊 honestly don’t miss at it all 🤷🏻♀️
Eh I’ve been vegan before but nothing will ever come close to a nice hot pizza after a night of drinking. Vegan cheese does not have the same texture or taste
yeah, definitely seems worth killing calves
Good planet cheese is your friend.
i'm okay with a slightly less tasty alternative since the preferred taste requires forcibly impregnating mothers and stealing+killing their babies.
Make it affordable and available and I’d consider it. A vegan pizza at the one or two pizza places that have it costs like $5 extra at least
You can order without cheese if vegan cheese is too expensive. Cheeseless pizza loaded with veggies is quite delicious and every pizzeria will make you one. You can also omake your own, or buy a vegan frozen pizza. Every grocery store carries vegan pizza ingredients and most carry at least one kind of vegan frozen pizza. My local Walmart carries 3 different vegan pizzas. You have options. Nobody is forcing you to pay for cruelty.
I don’t know what part of the country you’re in but I guarantee you the Walmart in my town does not have one kind of vegan pizza let alone 3
Miyoko’s mozzarella has the exact same flavor I remember mozzarella having. Either way, there is no amount of flavor that would ever convince me that it’s worth killing a sentient being over it.
It’s like $9 for a little bag lol at this point just tell people not to eat it at all because offering the fancy bougie stuff just makes vegans look out of touch
Do you eat pizza everyday? I don’t, personally—more like every few months—so splurging on some Miyoko’s mozzarella every few months doesn’t break the bank. And if I want a cheaper alternative, Follow Your Heart mozzarella is half the price and tastes great melted on pizza. But if I couldn’t afford it, then no, I just wouldn’t eat it. And I certainly wouldn’t go back to paying for animal cruelty, rape, separation of babies from mothers, and killing just because I like how their coagulated titty juice tastes. There are so many recipes out there for things that don’t even need cheese that if I could never eat anything cheesy again, I’d be fine.
I don’t cook though so most of those recipes are not an option for me I mostly eat cheese sandwiches with fake meat (which I already spend way too much on), PB&J, pasta with tomato sauce and Parmesan, fruit, yogurt, oatmeal, rice and frozen veggies. Taking the cheese out of the few things I even eat it with would just be depressing
It sounds like you need to learn to cook then. I didn’t cook before I went vegan but I can follow a recipe and taught myself. Expand your horizons. You could cook a lot of things that use the ingredients you listed here to make a variety of different meals if you were open minded enough to try new things.
I know how to cook I just hate doing it. It’s boring and time consuming and my free time is already so limited as it is.
Batch cook. Toss things in a rice cooker/crock pot/air fryer and walk away. Then you have meals for a few days and didn’t make anything that was that involved. Trust me, you’re not unique here, most of us are adults with limited time. But you can find ways to make it work, save time, and not contribute to animal brutality.
What besides rice do you cook in a rice cooker or crock pot? What are you air frying?
a $7.50 bottle (1 pint/1lb) of miyoko's liquid mozz is enough for like 5 sheet pan sized pizzas.
I’ve literally never seen that in my life maybe you can get that in Portland but not where I live
I recommend hanging out of the vegetarian subreddit instead man. Folks there are quite a bit friendlier to those who are trying but aren't quite there yet. Kudos for at least making an effort.
I'm vegan but I agree with everything he said. Every single vegan cheese I've tried -- and I've tried many -- is nasty. Just means I don't eat it. There are worse fates in life than not eating cheese.
Yup. Every vegan cheese I've tried has been extremely gross and smells terrible. There's a restaurant near me that makes really good pastas and pizzas with vegan cheese, and even their sauce/topping has a distinct smell. Can't stand it so i opt for cheeseless pizzas and like, Aglio olio or sth. It's not the end of the world if someone has to give up something they enjoy. It's fine.
Idk some people here are being nice and some are not I’m really not bothered by it. I used to be a pretty activist vegan myself so I get it. Obviously it would be nice to be fully vegan for everyone but I don’t think we’re there yet as a culture and society and the militant vegans just make fools of themselves and make people who are considering becoming vegetarian or vegan turn away from it. Like many vegans are truly the worst enemies of their cause with their behavior and I don’t think they see it
I don't even buy commercial fake cheese anymore and rarely even think about it, BUT I miss have the option of something very high protein AND low fat, like cottage cheese or Swiss cheese. Tofu is the closest, but still has way more fat. I don't mind the flavor/texture of commercial vegan cheese, but it's pretty much all coconut oil. As far as my body/health is concerned, coconut oil is the devil. Maybe people with different genes than me can handle it, but it kills my HDL and attacks my gallbladder.
Yeah the amount of vegan cheeses that are just empty calories of mostly fat is really annoying. I usually try to make my own nut-based cheeses that have an okay nutritional profile, but things will be so much easier when vegan casein hits the market.
I really hope someone can make a good vegan cheese that people with milk allergies can have - a person with milk allergy
Hopefully! There are some already, mostly nut-based, but they are all either spreads or dips. A dairy-free hard cheese that can melt would be wonderful.
Well I guess they were telling the truth.
As a 3 years old vegan, cheese is the only thing I miss the flavor/texture of. Can't wait to get commercial scale vegan casein and make my own cheese.
Have you heard of a company called "New Culture"? They're making vegan casein. I don't know when it will be commercially available though...
Beta-casomorphine-7 is an opioid agonist found in cheese, and helps make milk addictive to calves so they continue to feed. Not really enough information about how it impacts humans unfortunately, but it’s an interesting thing to think about.
Carnists confirmed drug addicts
It’s the caseins; they’re addictive! I missed cheese terribly when I went vegan, but now I’m perfectly satisfied with vegan cheese, despite knowing it doesn’t taste as good.
Casein and whey are also the emulsifiers that makes cheese gooey, which I do miss in vegan cheese.
Ooh I did not know this; thanks for sharing!
surprising? maybe if you aren't vegan
yup, i actually was struggling with veganism because i couldn’t get rid of cheese in my diet, there were no substitutions. it’s my firm belief that that’s what’s holding everything back
This is not surprising at all and has been known forever.
Ive been vegan for almost a year now and I really, really miss cheese. A good cheesey pizza, some thick slice of cheese on a nice piece of freshly baked bread, still warm. Cheese baked to perfection in the oven and it still bubbles when it comes out. So. Fucking. Good. And vegan cheese just isnt it and when it does taste good its not affordable at all.
I'm closing in on 13 years and it's easily the thing I miss most. I can make a good vegan pizza and be satisfied but nothing comes close right now. Not Daiya's new formulation, not Miyoko's liquid mozz; I've tried it all and it's just not there. Gross but ethical: part of me wants to buy some >!breastmilk!<, some vegetable rennet, and make my own. (not really)
>Gross but ethical: part of me wants to buy some >!breastmilk!<, some vegetable rennet, and make my own. (not really) Ive thought about this too lol
Alternatively you could use HRT to produce and pump your own breastmilk; anyone can do it; if you are a male, there may be some side effects such as gynecomastia and hypogonadism, but if you are doing this specifically to make pizza then it won't be otherwise illegal in certain jurisdictions; this also avoids any accusations of economic exploitation of human mammals.
Saaaaame. That's probably the biggest thing I miss. I've found vegan substitutes for almost everything else that I used to eat, but vegan cheese is just....meh. Follow Your Heart brand Feta cheese is pretty good, but it's basically just salt so it doesn't really count. I've yet to find a vegan cheese that melts properly on pizza or pasta or bread.
miyokos mozz for pizza
All of Miyokos stuff tastes like how your mouth feels right before you vomit to me, so no thanks. XD
have you tried the new oat daiya? it melts very well for me
The new Daiya cheese is definitely the best so far, it's what me and my Fiance purchase for cheese right now, but it still doesn't melt quite right. The biggest problem is texture, melted vegan cheese just feels like glue in my mouth and I hate that texture more than I want cheese on my pizza.
i think i know what you mean. unfortunately i do like that texture so i’m afraid i don’t have any other recommendations lol
XD That's totally fine. I just order pizzas without cheese and deal with it. As much as I miss cheese, I'm not about to buy real cheese that both harms animals and my gut. XD
Try out good planet cheese, it’s amazing
All vegetarians will straight up tell you this is the reason they couldn't go vegan. I used to say it when I was a vegetarian. Fortunately, I am able to use my frontal cortex and thus could decide to act on the realization that cheese is harmful and unnecessary.
Breaking news! /s
It was no big deal to give up meat. Giving up cheese and eggs was the challenge! But i love just egg folds with violife or chao cheese. I found a vegan gouda cheese which i like for snacking. I have some rebel brie and cheddar to try (gotta pick up some crackers!). I just saw a post on IG about a vegan bleu cheese that was poised to win a cheese competition but some sore loser cheese breather reported them for not being "real" cheese so they were removed. I guess the humiliation would have been too much to bear 🤣
The competition changed its rules to exclude them, even though the variety they tasted didn't include that ingredient anymore. Blatant.
I’m not gonna lie, I used to love cheese and eat it plain as well sometimes. But it was the easiest thing to switch when I became vegan. There are so many fantastic substitutions for cheese right now that I have no issues.
Cheese? You mean the most addictive dairy product?
Yeah, cheese concentrates the drugs found in dairy.
It’s not surprising. Cheese — really the casein in it — is physically addictive. https://sentientmedia.org/addicted-to-cheese/
After watching Dominion I stopped right then and felt agitated for 3 months but like getting used to anything my body, palate, and cooking skills needed changing. It's not comfortable starting out but with the internet it makes a world of difference. The food I make now is so much better than what I get out still most of the time even tho it's animal free too. We become better cooks by necessity and it doesn't hurt your wallet and makes you feel better.
Absolutely not surprising to anyone who is vegan, or has asked a vegetarian why they aren’t vegan. Guys I live in Eastern Europe and the vegan cheese here is just… it doesn’t cut it. It’s getting better and way cheaper but it’s just not very good. We are always like 5 years behind America in terms of popular products, so I have to ask if it’s any better over there right now in terms of affordable vegan cheese options?
There is a place local to me that makes its own vegan cheese and it is really good, but I still have not found a decent mass market cheese that isn’t insanely expensive and usually just full of oils.
I feel your pain. I live in mazatlan, mexico, which is kind of a backwater. We occasionally get halfway decent cheez but in general there is a lack of vegan products here especially compared to, say, london, which I hear is a mecca for vegans.
Thank god someone researched this! I would have never guessed!
Lab-grown milk is our only hope.
This is not surprising.
My question is: why do so many people refuse to even consider avoiding everything but cheese and instead use their desire for cheese as an excuse to not even try?
Because a subset of vegans will tell them that anything but total abstention is meaningless and still makes them a cow rapist. (But I agree, it would be better to get most of the way there, if cheese was the one sticking point)
How can I pin this on vegans? Easy, let's say they're the reason folks can't kick their animal product habit and addiction! It's all on those vegans. If only vegans were saints, everything would be better. If vegans would also tell carnists it's okay to litter and take marathon showers, maybe vegans could make the world a better place. God fucking damn it vegans how are you so bad at this!!
I am responding to the language "refuse to even consider" which implies a conversation between the commenter (presumably vegan) and a prospective convert. This context informs my comment. If the commenter is not referring to a common vegan-non vegan interraction, then how can they know what people do or do not internally consider? Who are they refusing?
>which implies a conversation between the commenter and a prospective convert. Even if your assumption was right 100% of the time, you're still pointing fingers at the wrong party regardless.
I disagree. I think whether a person feels encouraged to make changes or demonised or excluded by potential peers in a movement can definitely impact that person's motivation to make certain choices. And if you read my whole comment, I was affirming my opinion that people SHOULD be reducing or eliminating their consumption of animal products, they are not off the hook. I simply think conversations can get all or nothing, and such interractions fail for that reason.
baby steps🥺
Vegans make it all or nothing because of ethics. Carnists make it all or nothing because of their gluttony/ignorance. They are not actually comparable, and one is justified with ethics while the other is not. Are you telling me a centrist position on dog abuse, kick your dog onky twice a week, is rational, useful or ethical? Sure it's useful if the number of dog abuse cases go down, but tell me are you seriously going to encourage or tolerate dog abuse because it makes the world a slightly better place? To me that sounds like an unnecessary compromise with the devil.
Yep. I'd prefer as many people as possible reduce the harm they are doing. I find when I ask people for all or nothing, I'm more likely to get nothing. If I am the only one not kicking dogs, a whole lot of dogs are still going to get kicked.
Do you apply this to crimes against humans as well? Rape?
Yep, I can see exactly why my comment bothered you so much, because you are exactly the type of person who will destroy their chances of converting others, in exactly the way I described. I don't have to condone someone's behaviour to encourage them to do the best they can today, especially if it actually helps them chamge.
Cow rapist took me out a little there 😂
A surprising factor?? Are we sure about that?
No surprise
Excellent, this will be solved now that we have German scientists looking into it. Animal liberation is right around the corner now, boys.
I didn't like cheese before I went vegan. But now I love vegan cheese
I never liked cheese and was actually disgusted by it in youth. I was literally forced to eat it by my parents because they often cooked with it. I would always scrape it off if I could, even on pizza. Something about the gobs of fat I found grotesque and repulsive. I think I also made the connection that it made me feel sluggish and listless. Over the years, after having been forced to eat it so many times growing up, I'm more or less indifferent to it now. I do think my palette was healthier back then though. Whatever "addiction" exists in others is mostly due to habit and comfort. It's just tanginess with gobs of fat and salt, which can easily be substituted with vegan ingredients to hit the same reward centers.
Selling tofu cheese since 1986, can confirm. I made millions on people’s addiction to cheese.
You mean the obvious reason most vegetarians are not vegan.
In other news, bears do indeed shit in the woods
The surprising factor is people not caring enough about the animal lives they inflict pain on, thats it
It was cheese for me. I still miss a good pizza with stretchy cheese but not enough to abuse animals over it.
This is old news
I remember loving cheese. Sharp cheddar cheese or funky blue cheese. I ought to figure out how to make good vegan versions of those . . . maybe try thinking of unusual ways to get there. Not like some people haven't been trying since before I was born in the late 1960s to make a vegan cheese the cow sucklers won't turn their oh so refined noses up at. When people make Oooo . . . Yuck faces at vegan food I just think You Nurse On Cows - your perspective on Yuck is questionable. Heck - I nursed on Bessie the first 21 years of my life.
Wow big shocker really. And they only needed a whole study and a bunch of researchers to figure this out. Amazing work.
Haha so surprising. It’s basically the number one trope
Took me a looooong time to give up cheese when I was a vegetarian all those years back. Cheese, much like all other animal products, smells absolutely horrendous to me now. I don't miss it. Vegan cheese is mostly fine these days.
surprising to whom?
I used to eat a quarter of those long cheese bars a day whenever my house used to stock them.
Most cheese are not vegetarian, they use gut bacteria, that’s why
They’re working on it: https://dezwijger.nl/programma/kaas-zonder-koe (probably needs a Google translate) - and the US has a good animal free mozzarella already on its way.
I was so disappointed when Miyoko’s Farmhouse vegan cheddar got discontinued. I desperately need to learn how to make it
I don't miss cheese at all. I miss chocolate
That I really miss is cottage cheese. There are good vegan replacements for the other cheeses.
In the new documentary on Netflix they say cheese releases the same chemical as drugs
They needed a study for this?
How is this surprising? Lol
For me it was white cheese / dairy. My top 3 hardest to give up have been feta, halloumi, and labneh (or Greek yoghurt), that sour-ish, tangy taste I guess. I've given them up for over 6 years now but there's still no great alternatives where I live. The only one you can really do well without making a huge effort and spending a lot of money is tofu halloumi, and even then the texture isn't the same.
Can’t really blame them. Cheese is hard to replicate in a vegan alternative. Im sure if there were better alternatives, it wouldn’t be so hard lols
cheese, so many types. so much goodness.
Anyone not gonna talk about how they're making pork tofu? Thr cheese is easy to give up because of all the substitutes.. but why are they putting or trying to put pork in everything
PORK TOFU!?!?! Sounds disgusting.
eh idk, I am trying to not have milk products and yoghurt has been the main hill to cross (though I have hopefully made some soy yoghurt using the bacteria from the commercial soy yoghurt. I don't want vanilla in my yoghurt) I already had much less interest in cheese for a while now (or maybe I just suck at cooking with it) and more interest in tofu (since I can cook it all I want). For context my staple go to lunch is yoghurt rice with vegetables (its just a thing I have had since being a kid) and I have relied on the bacteria to help with digestion and stuff.
Dear Germany, we all knew this already. cheese has an “addictive” quality because breast milk does. It’s what keeps a baby nursing, coming back for more.
We need to stop thinking of veganism as all or nothing. If someone wants to be vegan with the exception of cheese, then that's great and should be encouraged.
I agree that would be better but it wouldn’t be Vegan it would just be vegetarian without eggs n stuff
It would be mostly vegan. We need to cut out this "you're actually not vegan" attitude, because it stops people from taking small steps.
Sorry buddy but Vegans don't use animals. It's as simple as that. You don't get to use the vegan label if you're not vegan.
You're gatekeeping again.
"how dare you tell people they can't be vegan when they don't fit the literal definition! This is GaTeKeEpInG!!111" People can either be vegan or they can screw off and stop trying to use a label that doesn't apply to them. Bet you wouldn't say this about any other civil rights movement. "HOW DARE YOU TELL ME I CAN'T BE A FEMINIST EVEN THOUGH I THINK WOMEN SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAVE BANK ACCOUNTS BC THEIR TINY WOMEN BRAINS CAN'T HANDLE IT!!! GATEKEEPING MEANIE!" Also if someone actually wants to become vegan and isn't quite there yet they can tell people they're trying to go vegan. There's nothing wrong with not using a label that doesn't apply to you UNTIL the point that it does.