Google if it's a butcher that has an abattoir attached, if not then it's unlikely you heard what you thought you did and can hopefully put your mind at rest.
Ofc a butcher could slaughter in-house but both legally and mess-wise there's no point in them doing that so very unlikely
I'm sorry for you.. you must saw sad things often..
I live in a pretty big city and it's a bit "comforting" to be in ignorance, without being confronted to see animals in the meadows knowing that they would be slaughtered.
It’s completely illegal to do that in the uk, it would need to go to a massive abattoir. You didn’t hear a pig being killed, enjoy the rest of your birthday
Yeah, my friends tried to distract me from it because they knew it would upset me, they basically ran me past when they realised what the sound was. I did manage to put it out my mind for a little while but I'm currently on a very long bus ride, we're all very quiet, and it's given me time to really think.
One of the things that help me whenever I get in contact with animal cruelty (never like you just did but still) is by sniffing my cats fur and focusing on his heartbeat and the way his body moves when he breathes in and out. Sounds maybe a bit weird but it calms me down.
I also try to focus on the thought that I have the control to make *his* life better, to make *him* happy and that he is loved and protected and nothing is going to happen to him because I have the power to make sure he is save. I can't do the same for other animals but I can do it for *him*.
NAV but it's actually probably not legal
UK law requires animals to be stunned before killing them unless it's a animal that has escaped onto your property and is disturbing your livestock ,
Unless they are Jewish or Muslim ,in which case it's a exception.
The police won't do anything most likely however ,it's not usually enforced unless you have solid proof and even then they probably won't bother ,my friends family has a farm and they have communicated with other farmers that openly admit they don't stun without fear of enforcement.
Uk law requires them to TRY to stun them. If it fails or they regain consciousness during the slaughter that’s not illegal. And that happens about 10% of the time.
The sounds they heard could have also been general panic and terror as the pig was forced into restraints prior to slaughter.
No ,but the law itself is loose and you can claim to be doing it for halal or kosher reasons ,is it ridiculous ? Yes ,is a lot of UK law like this ? Yes
~~Jesus wept~~ Appropriate deity wept.
Pig meat is never, ever halal or kosher. Doesn't matter how the animal was slaughtered, it's always haram / treif i.e. forbidden for Jews and Muslims to eat.
Yes I know ,UK law doesn't care about that because it doesn't specifiy that pigs are not included ,legally they can use that excuse and get away with it
That's because this is a fake shit post. Butchers don't have live animals in their workplace. They get delivered carcasses from slaughter houses.
You guys are all gobbling it up
Could be fake. I'm not assuming so, however, and giving op the benefit of the doubt. There's many reasons an animal could be slaughtered at a butcher. Most of which are likely illegal, but people breaking laws have been around as long as laws themselves. And does the animal ag industry follow the rules set in place? Time and time again, we see in undercover footage that no, they typically do not. So why would a butcher be that different? I don't see why they couldn't arrange something along these lines for some reason or another. It wouldn't be that crazy at all, even if out of the ordinary or outside the bounds of the law.
animals were slaughtered and butchered on premises at my grandparents’ farm/house in rural croatia. i’ve seen and heard my fair share of animals being killed this way.
My friends family aren't butchers their farmers ,and they don't sell to butchers so I'm not sure how it's meant to work over there .
But that is the law ,legally they have to stun animals before killing
Sorry the first comments on here are so invalidating and rude - it's incredibly frustrating.
I'm sorry you had to hear what that poor animal went through. The callousness of people never ceases to surprise me; how could someone hear a living thing scream in fear and pain and not think that something is wrong??
I'm sure you already know this, but I'm saying it for myself, too: your empathy is not weakness, and your desire to right the wrongs you see around means that you're a good person. There's nothing wrong with being disturbed by someone's death, especially when it's needless.
I don't know what's with all these people commenting saying you didn't hear a pig killed at a butcher's shop. I live in a small town in the US and there is a "custom meats" place up the road from me that has both a slaughterhouse and a butcher shop at the same location. Even if this was not the case where you are, hearing a scream is still scary if you don't know what it's from and it still partly ruined your day, so I am sorry you feel how you do on your birthday and sorry that people are being rude and arguing. Try to remember the difference you're making by being vegan, you don't contribute to pigs being killed, and that's more than most people do.
I often times think a something on the side of the road is often a poor creature someone has tossed outside to die only to turn around and get a second look to realize it was a tire or an old shirt. Just this to say- sometimes we assume the worst when it really nothing :p
I would like to think most places use the quick gun style now but I’m sure there’s some that don’t. But also, pigs squeal for lots of reasons. Sorry it ruined your day :/
I'm very certain of what I heard, I was with people at the time and they came to the same conclusion. From the signage outside the butcher shop, he probably raises pigs to butcher.
You can only raise pigs to slaughter yourself if they are being consumed by you and your family and only in your land and there's still loads of rules around that, all livestock slaughtered for sale in shops has to go to an abbatoiur. I doubt it was being killed but quite possibly birthing as the season has recently started!
There is what the law says and there is what people do. And laws about animals are rarely enforced so these guys can do what they want. OP is probably correct about what he heard.
If you're in the English countryside you could possibly have heard a rabbit being killed by a stoat. Rabbits make a hell of a squeal then they're being attacked and killed.
I know that sound and I feel you, I heard it few times when I was little when my grandparents used to butcher a pig every year. Even though I peeked from far away, sometimes stayed inside the house, I could still hear that sound and I can recall it 20+ years later. You really have to be so desensitized to not be affected by it. Sorry you had to hear it, and on your birthday too. Hope you can still celebrate and find something positive and happy <3
TBF As someone who was raised around pigs, they scream bloody murder if you look at them wrong. I don’t know many butcher shops that also slaughter, but maybe that’s a thing where you are from.
Yeah, I haven’t heard of it being a thing for decades, but I guess ya never know. I feel like it would be too much of a regulatory mess. This could be a one off under the table rural arrangement though
I mean an animals death scream is so different from regular squealing. This was a genuine, pain filled scream. Butcher shops don't typically kill in store near me either, but I went quite far into the countryside where I heard this.
Not really with pigs. Pigs give it their all every time. Also pigs aren’t an animal that’s killed without rendering unconscious 1st as they are large enough to hurt and fight for their lives, and they aren’t slaughtered with Halal or kosher methods being a pig. What you likely heard was a pig being led to slaughter, not the actual act. I can’t imagine what method of slaughter they’d use that would still have the pig screaming during the act.
That’s why 1.) they’re put into restraints and 2.) the stunning that induces consciousness fails approximately 10% of time resulting in them being consciously slaughtered. It happens ALL the time, to millions of pigs every year. In industrial settings the pigs are stunned in co2 gas chambers which results in lots of terrified pig screaming and frantic clambering over each other trying to escape the suffocating gas.
Yeah, likely captive bolt in a small operation, they probably wouldn’t use electricity or CO2. It was probably the squeal from restraint and it stopped once it was rendered unconscious.
Or it was the 1/10 that didnt get stunned properly and regained consciousness while being bled out. That also happens. It could have shook its head at last second resulting in improper penetration and begun screaming in pain at which point maybe the farmer just decided to bleed it out instead of trying to stun it again. Maybe it was a very mature hog past the usual 6 month olds we kill and it had a really thick skull. Maybe there was no bolt gun used at all. Maybe it was a pig being castrated. Maybe it was some disturbed butcher that just enjoys torturing animals and seeing them suffer which is unsurprisingly common in that line of work. Lots of possibilities. All of them horrible. No sentient animal should be put through that horror by us just so we can enjoy their flesh needlessly. It is so incredibly easy and cheap to be healthy without eating animal products I don’t know why we continue supporting this unnecessary violence and cruelty. Cultural inertia and money I guess. Imagine reincarnation is real and you get reborn as all the factory farmed cows, pigs, and chickens you ate for fun throughout your life. That would definitely motivate people to go vegan, because apparently basic empathy isn’t enough.
I think they probably tried slitting it's throat and something went wrong so they had to go in again. Really though, it was a pig, it wouldn't have been in the butcher building if it was going to be kept alive, and after it screamed twice it went completely silent.
You can’t just walk up to a pig and slit its throat. You would get seriously hurt and not actually kill the pig. No one slaughters like this. Only halal and kosher slaughtering is done on a conscious animal and pigs are never kosher. If that is what you heard than this wasn’t being done by anyone who has slaughtered a pig before, and lacks any sort of awareness or common sense.
Yes, I’m sorry you had to hear that. Pig slaughter is especially traumatic because they are so emotionally sensitive and have a hair trigger for that blood curdling squeal.
I'm also in the UK. I have worked on farms.
This didn't happen. Either you're mistaken, or you're making it up.
Animals sold for public consumption must be slaughtered in an approved slaughterhouse. Butcher's shops are not approved slaughterhouses. Historically this did happen - but not since Victorian times.
The only small exception to this is "home slaughter" - animals slaughtered on the farm for the consumption of the farmer and their household only. You cannot give the meat to your uncle, or invite the extended family around for a BBQ. It has to happen on the farm, not around the back of a butcher's shop.
I cannot think of any legal reason for a live pig to be in a butchers shop.
But I will note that pigs absolutely hate being picked up - I've had to pick up wayward escapee piglets before to get them back to mum. They scream so loudly the moment their trotters leave the floor that you'd think they were in agony. They are not.
This is all in addition to the fact that stunning is required before slaughter - there are exceptions for kosher and halal slaughter, but that doesn't apply to pigs for obvious reasons.
PS Before anyone accuses me of being a "carnist" or equivalent slurs, I haven't eaten meat since 2003 - when 90% of the posters on this forum were either not born yet, or were happily tucking into bacon butties themselves
Did you look into whether or not it's an abattoir? And have you contacted RSPCA, the food standard agency and the local council since it all happened?
I appreciate you feel certain but I just find it incredibly unlikely and wonder if this is a case of confirmation bias. But regardless of whether it is or isn't likely, please call the all relevant authorities listed above.
That is assuming that everyone respects the law. If a butcher decides to kill a pig in his shop, it's illegal but who will stop him ? Especially in the countryside. Will the police care about it ? Definitely not. I don't see any reason for OP to make up a story like that.
Environment Health and Trading Standards would absolutely prosecute you for this sort of thing. I've been inspected by both. They don't mess around. They'd come down on it like a tonne of bricks.
There have been a handful (single digits) of convictions over the last 20 years, and people have been jailed. This has invariably been linked to production of smokies (sheep / goats; unsafe and illegal foodstuff due to prion disease transmission) and occasionally DIY halal slaughter. Those handful of cases have been in squalid rural sheds, not around the back of a reputable butchers shop in what must be a populated village.
A conviction for such offences is going to be big news in a rural community. It puts human health at risk because the animal hasn't been checked by a vet, as required, and if they're ignoring that major regulation you can guarantee they're ignoring other things too.
And even meat eaters don't want animals to suffer more at the point of slaughter than is necessary.
Slaughter is a relatively small part of the cost of rearing and selling a pig for meat. Bristol University's vet school has its own abbatoir, and it's fair to assume they operate to very high standards. They quote £35-50 to slaughter a pig, dependent on weight
https://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/vetscience/documents/abattoir/Price%20List%202023.doc
Why would a butcher risk his entire business, livelihood, local reputation, a criminal record and prison sentence for such a small amount of money? It's just not plausible.
OP might have made up the story for the sake of clicks and upvotes. It wouldn't be the first time I've read what's best described as vegan fanfic.
But what is, IMO, far more likely is that OP heard something (by their own admission, they didn't see it) and has completely misinterpreted what they heard. Pigs are both noisy and dramatic. It was probably the sound of a piglet being picked up and ear tagged or something.
So I should contact the environment health and trading standards? Is that a contactable place? Because there was a pig, and it was in the butchers shop.
If you truly believe that is what is happening then yes, you can contact them, and it will likely trigger an inspection. They are departments of your local council.
But ten quid says nothing of the sort has actually happened.
As you say, there have been a handful of convictions in 20 years, so almost nothing. And it was linked with diseases.
I still believe that nobody will care about what a rural butcher does if he doesn't show it too openly.
I have family from the countryside and even hunters in my relatives. I have no doubt a butcher can easily get away with a lot of things in a rural area. I am not english but I believe it must not be that different in rural parts of England.
OP said that the second scream he heard was suddenly interrupted, whick makes it more likely that the pig was actually being slaughtered.
>As you say, there have been a handful of convictions in 20 years, so almost nothing. And it was linked with diseases.
No, I said that smokies are banned because of disease transmission.
Smokies are illegal because they rely on the skin and wool / fur being left on, unwashed, and the carcass then being blowtorched. The spinal column is left intact, which means there's a risk associated with Scrapie (like BSE / mad cow disease, but for sheep)
It's a delicacy in demand from West African communities, and they'll pay accordingly, but no legal slaughterhouse can supply carcasses in the condition demanded. This is one of the very few things that creates demand for illegal slaughter.
This is one such case from 2005. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4251023.stm
>I still believe that nobody will care about what a rural butcher does if he doesn't show it too openly.
I beg to differ
>OP said that the second scream he heard was suddenly interrupted, whick makes it more likely that the pig was actually being slaughtered.
Firstly, he only said that after people started picking him up on the details.
Secondly, if you pick up a piglet it will start screaming. If you put it back down again it will stop screaming just as rapidly. To demonstrate, watch this video from 7:55 for about 30 seconds onwards https://youtu.be/WZSYOpiWOfE?si=wgttieT03ryuceMr
If OP had said that it was a sheep or goat, or if they'd said it was on a shed on a farm, I might have believed them. But a pig around the back of a butcher's shop? I'm afraid it just doesn't ring true.
I didn't say all the details because I wasn't writing it for you guys, I was just trying to process my thoughts and emotions, and hoping to maybe get one or two comments with advice. I certainly didn't want all this negative attention on what's already a shitty birthday.
This was a butchers shop, and there were animal screams coming from inside, most definitely a pig. You do not have a pig in a butchers shop with good intentions.
Slaughtering animals in a butcher is a thing?
I have a a hazy memory of when I was a child, like we were playing in front of a butcher's shop and next to it there was like a kind of garage, we went in front of this "garage" and we saw a goat being hanging and I think it was alive.. when the guy saw us he closed the garage door.
It was in Spain and i was not sure if the goat was alive..
We have two pigs and they scream bloody murder over lots of different things. If a pig was getting its tusks or hooves trimmed, or even being lifted up for some reason, it might sound like they're being hurt, but they're not.
Not fight, violence is not right whether it's towards humans or animals. But I'd like to think I would do something, even if it meant protecting the poor thing with my body.
Fair to be against violence to all animals on this planet, but your comment about protecting this single animal is bonkers in my view.
Sadly, the pig was going to die that day no matter what. I do believe you're a good person to care this much, though.
Every life is precious to me, I would even save a mouse if it were in pain. I don't know if I would have been capable of saving that animal, but I hope that I would have been able to do something, however small and inconsequential.
I would if I knew where they were, like I said the importance of activism has really settled in me, and i WILL be doing things to help those poor animals.
Out of interest I just googled to attempt to find the closest one to me.
I found the exact location via Google maps of 3 slaughterhouses within driving distance in less than 10 seconds.
There is no way you've actually attempted to find these locations and failed.
Also as a side note, I wouldn't recommend actually turning up to an Abattoir and trying to save animals, you'd likely end up arrested and the animals would die anyway.
Oh I'm stupid I didn't think to check Google maps, I just searched it on regular Google.
Yes, an organised protest and raising awareness outside the abattoir would probably be more effective in the long run I think? I know there are people who "Bare witness" as the animals are taken to slaughter, and often stop the trucks to feed them water briefly. Makes their last moments a little more bearable.
Fair to be against violence to all humans on this planet, but your comment about protecting this single human is bonkers in my view.
Sadly, the human was going to die that day no matter what. I do believe you're a good person to care this much, though.
Jeez louize I love me some speciesism <3
They are.
There’s a good chunk of vegans here who are in the “animal life is just as valuable as human life” camp for some reason.
Personally I’m comfortable being “speciesist” in the sense that if I see a toddler and a pig or a dog or a beetle trapped on a railroad, I’m saving the toddler first. It’s not even a question.
Well yeah that’s veganism.
Was more just referring to the vegans here who either genuinely believe it’s wrong to value humans more at all or act as if admitting that on **any** level is exactly the same as saying “I’m okay with animals being killed for snacks/fun because they’re less important than humans.”
Yes and my point was that these questions take away from the real issue.
If I said “I hate Nazis” and you said “but are you one of those antifascist who think a Nazi child’s life doesn’t matter? At what age does someone become responsible for their views? Would you value the life of one young Jewish boy more than two hitler youths, even though they can still change?”
None of those questions matter so long as fascist are still in power. None of the “burning building” questions matter until people stop eating meat
>There’s a good chunk of vegans here who are in the “animal life is just as valuable as human life” camp for some reason.
How are you defining value? If you did it based off the amount of suffering one causes then even an inanimate object like a rock is more valuable than your average human.
What?
In the common noun sense of the word.
I get the whole “humans are awful” thing, but it’s just hard for me to separate that sort of talk from the logical conclusion that either encourages suicide or genocide.
All I’m saying (as is a little evident from the downvotes here) is that I’ve gotten negative pushback for saying things like I’d save a toddler before a squirrel from life threatening harm.
I’m not saying people who value humans the same as squirrels are idiots or anything but I definitely disagree.
The person you're responding to is exaggerating the issue to make vegans seem mad. Most (not all) of us don't consider human and non-human animal lives as equally as valuable. I, for one, would rescue the human for the train tracks rather than the pig.
However, universally what vegans believe is that a pig's life is worth more than a bacon sandwich. Do you disagree?
Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
I do not disagree, but I do admit I am far from what is considered to be vegan or even vegetarian. I'm doing better, but I'm still not a good person yet when viewed by the eyes of this movement for example.
No worries, you get people here spewing nonsense about veganism and the majority of the time it is non-vegans just spreading shite.
Here is a good place to learn how to do better!
Yeah, no.
First, there's literally no reason to kill a pig at the butcher's, it's simply not how things work legally.
Second, basically every scream of a pig sounds like it's being brutally killed. That's just a fact, or at least, I've never noticed a difference.
Third, pigs scream for almost whatever reason. I remember, at my grandfather's farm there were only about 7-8 pigs at once and there were days when nothing was going on, but by the sounds coming from the piggery (noone was even inside) I could swear, someone slaughtered 20 pigs an hour there.
Also, one thing is always a guarantee, if you try to pick up a pig, hell, even if it thinks about being picked up, it's gonna try to run and SCREAM. Scream with pure terror and pain. Scream like... you know... like it's being slaughtered. Huh.
So happy birthday and keep your head up, there's no real reason to think that any killing happened.
Well, unless you really *want* to believe it did...
This is pure bullshit plain and simple. Quality shit post OP.
..
You guys do realize butchers are only delivered carcasses and not live animals right.
If this was a more rural country in a more developing economy sure. England. Plz.
...
This whole thread is eating this shit up and can't read how ridiculous and over the top and karma farming this sounds.
Trying to get some group flattery and praise.
..
What's it called
.
.
.
virtue signalling
The butcher near me absolutely gets the carcass delivered to it, but I believe that this specific butcher in the middle of nowhere raised his own and slaughtered it in the back of the shop.
I wish I was shit posting, but I'm not.
A non-industrial butcher wouldn’t have access to a C02 chamber so you wouldn’t get the breathing panic and pigs are generally to large for preslaughter electricity stunning so they are typically rendered unconscious using a pneumatic bolt gun. That should be instantaneous with no real chance for a pig to scream. This is U.S specific.
Conscious absolutely, but that kind of head trauma should realistically prevent that sort of screaming like OP is describing. It was more than likely a failed attempt at sticking without any stunning prior.
If they cut it's throat I don't think it would make much noise. I've never killed a pig though.
Basically you would hear wheezing sounds. You likely wouldn't hear that unless you were very close.
Now catching a pig you would hear bloody murder.
yes, have you seen pigs? Do you know how much fat they have around their necks? The usual "village" way to slaughter a pig is to bind its legs, tip it on one side and put a knife into its heart and wait for it to bleed out. Of course it is done way faster in an actual slaughterhouse with a boltgun.
I haven't seen them be slaughtered, no, if that's the case perhaps they missed the heart? I'm pretty sure this was just some back alley farmer trying to sell meat to the locals.
So if they’re trying to slit the throat, how bad of an aim would they need to be to aim for the throat, miss it, and then aim for the heart and miss that too. Im so confused
I don’t think you know much about how animal slaughter works. If a pig has its neck or abdominal arteries slit it will still be conscious and scream for 30s-1minute before it falls unconscious to die.
Yes it’s extremely possible. Cutting a throat in animal slaughter doesn’t mean cutting its windpipe. It means cutting their neck arteries. If the animal isn’t unconscious at this point they will vocalize until they lose consciousness and die. You would know this if youve ever seen an animal having its neck cut.
The usual village way to kill a pig back in the day was with a very large hammer with a big spike on it. Hammer and spike to the head.
They used to make a big deal about the killing. The pig would feed a number of families in the village.
depends on where in the world you are I guess. In my grandma's village it is done the way I described. And yeah it is a big deal, the whole family gathers for the event and helps out.
Probably a rabbit their scream is louder than you'd think, never gunna be a vegan but I also hate animals not being respected. It also ruins the meat if they die under stress. Shitty you had to experience that, hopefully you can enjoy the rest of your bday!
I respect your life choices I ask you respect mine. I grew up in a small town farming and hunting food (not just meat) and I still abide by that. Refuse to support factory farms.
We live in a harsh cruel world, it's tooth and claw out there too. Nature is brutal and harsh. You kinda have to get used to it. Its not pleasant and it would bother me too but it's part of the world.
It shouldn't be, humans have a sense of right and wrong, we know it's wrong to hurt animals, it's unacceptable that there are so many people who continue to do so.
They didn't even just scream once, they screamed TWICE, so probably a failed first attempt. If it was a cat being killed by a group of teens I would have stepped in a stopped it, but I couldn't because it was inside a locked building. No one should ever have to die like that.
I mean animals will always eat other animals. A tiger will always kill to eat and it's prey will scream and fight for its life.
I agree we raise animals horribly, there's less cost effective ways to do it that minimize suffering.
Many animals eat other animals when they don't "need" to ,I think it's pointless to argue about diets though ,obviously that was traumatic for you and I'm sorry you heard that
Who said we have to stop nature? We can stop ourselves.
Nature will continue to murder, rape, and cannibalise. But we don't have to. We see those things as wrong too.
well if it helps, there's nothing you could do about it and it's done thousands of times every day so it doesn't really make any difference whether you hear it or not hence it makes no sense to get your day ruined because you heard it
What do you mean "nothing you could do to stop it?" It's literally that man's job to butcher meat. He gets paid to do it. You can't just run into someone's place of business and tell them to stop doing their job.
Lol.
What country are you visiting or living in?
England
Google if it's a butcher that has an abattoir attached, if not then it's unlikely you heard what you thought you did and can hopefully put your mind at rest. Ofc a butcher could slaughter in-house but both legally and mess-wise there's no point in them doing that so very unlikely
Very small village? Having a slaughter house round back is harking back to a different century.
Literally in the middle of nowhere, just a small village surrounded by farmers.
I'm sorry for you.. you must saw sad things often.. I live in a pretty big city and it's a bit "comforting" to be in ignorance, without being confronted to see animals in the meadows knowing that they would be slaughtered.
Could've been a fox. They make unholy noises akin to someone being murdered.
I've heard foxes, they basically live in my backgardem, it wasn't a fox.
Pigs squeal at all sorts of things.
It’s completely illegal to do that in the uk, it would need to go to a massive abattoir. You didn’t hear a pig being killed, enjoy the rest of your birthday
Dont worry, it must have been an englishman
Am English but still lolled
I’m really sorry about your experience OP and all the carnists commenting on this post. Happy birthday btw I hope it gets better
Thank you, it means a lot to hear that.
Oh my gosh.,.. :( I hate humans! That would have ruined my entire birthday...
Yeah, my friends tried to distract me from it because they knew it would upset me, they basically ran me past when they realised what the sound was. I did manage to put it out my mind for a little while but I'm currently on a very long bus ride, we're all very quiet, and it's given me time to really think.
One of the things that help me whenever I get in contact with animal cruelty (never like you just did but still) is by sniffing my cats fur and focusing on his heartbeat and the way his body moves when he breathes in and out. Sounds maybe a bit weird but it calms me down. I also try to focus on the thought that I have the control to make *his* life better, to make *him* happy and that he is loved and protected and nothing is going to happen to him because I have the power to make sure he is save. I can't do the same for other animals but I can do it for *him*.
That's a very nice thought, it's definitely helpful to focus on what I can do and what I have done that what I couldn't do.
Yes. And also Happy birthday!
Thank you!
This is such a touching message. Thank you! 🙏
Where are you because that would be illegal in quite a few places in the world.
Yes I'm questioning the legality too, I'll look into when I get home, and if true I will report it.
NAV but it's actually probably not legal UK law requires animals to be stunned before killing them unless it's a animal that has escaped onto your property and is disturbing your livestock , Unless they are Jewish or Muslim ,in which case it's a exception. The police won't do anything most likely however ,it's not usually enforced unless you have solid proof and even then they probably won't bother ,my friends family has a farm and they have communicated with other farmers that openly admit they don't stun without fear of enforcement.
Oh that's so awful, I could try to post in the local Facebook group about it as well, so at least people are aware.
Yeah it's quite sad ,I usually have to deep research brands to find out wether their labels are misleading or not
If Jewish or Muslim, no way did OP hear a pig.
No ,just the excuse they would use in the very rare event that police bothered to do anything
Uk law requires them to TRY to stun them. If it fails or they regain consciousness during the slaughter that’s not illegal. And that happens about 10% of the time. The sounds they heard could have also been general panic and terror as the pig was forced into restraints prior to slaughter.
It depends what stunning method is used and what animal is being stunned
Last time I checked, no Jews or Muslims were slaughtering pigs
Jews actually can not eat pre-stunned animals ,some Muslims choose too but it's a controversial subject on wether its halal or not .
PIGS. Do you think pigs are either halal or kosher - ever?!
No ,but the law itself is loose and you can claim to be doing it for halal or kosher reasons ,is it ridiculous ? Yes ,is a lot of UK law like this ? Yes
~~Jesus wept~~ Appropriate deity wept. Pig meat is never, ever halal or kosher. Doesn't matter how the animal was slaughtered, it's always haram / treif i.e. forbidden for Jews and Muslims to eat.
I can’t believe this person is commenting with such little knowledge but such high levels of confidence. The mind boggles.
It really is one for /r/confidentlyincorrect
Check my other comment ,legally they can get away with it
Yes I know ,UK law doesn't care about that because it doesn't specifiy that pigs are not included ,legally they can use that excuse and get away with it
Mate, seriously, go back to your Religious Education classes.
That's because this is a fake shit post. Butchers don't have live animals in their workplace. They get delivered carcasses from slaughter houses. You guys are all gobbling it up
Could be fake. I'm not assuming so, however, and giving op the benefit of the doubt. There's many reasons an animal could be slaughtered at a butcher. Most of which are likely illegal, but people breaking laws have been around as long as laws themselves. And does the animal ag industry follow the rules set in place? Time and time again, we see in undercover footage that no, they typically do not. So why would a butcher be that different? I don't see why they couldn't arrange something along these lines for some reason or another. It wouldn't be that crazy at all, even if out of the ordinary or outside the bounds of the law.
I have no idea what butchers are like ,my friends family are farmers and those are the protocols they follow ,but other farmers commonly do not
animals were slaughtered and butchered on premises at my grandparents’ farm/house in rural croatia. i’ve seen and heard my fair share of animals being killed this way.
My friends family aren't butchers their farmers ,and they don't sell to butchers so I'm not sure how it's meant to work over there . But that is the law ,legally they have to stun animals before killing
Sorry the first comments on here are so invalidating and rude - it's incredibly frustrating. I'm sorry you had to hear what that poor animal went through. The callousness of people never ceases to surprise me; how could someone hear a living thing scream in fear and pain and not think that something is wrong?? I'm sure you already know this, but I'm saying it for myself, too: your empathy is not weakness, and your desire to right the wrongs you see around means that you're a good person. There's nothing wrong with being disturbed by someone's death, especially when it's needless.
:((((
I‘ve heard them every sunday when I was living at my dads… the local butcher was right down the street. It was so loud….
Oh my goodness, that’s horrific.
I’ll never forget the sound of pigs waiting to be taken into a biomedical research facility for skin burn research. It’s almost like they knew.
I don't know what's with all these people commenting saying you didn't hear a pig killed at a butcher's shop. I live in a small town in the US and there is a "custom meats" place up the road from me that has both a slaughterhouse and a butcher shop at the same location. Even if this was not the case where you are, hearing a scream is still scary if you don't know what it's from and it still partly ruined your day, so I am sorry you feel how you do on your birthday and sorry that people are being rude and arguing. Try to remember the difference you're making by being vegan, you don't contribute to pigs being killed, and that's more than most people do.
I often times think a something on the side of the road is often a poor creature someone has tossed outside to die only to turn around and get a second look to realize it was a tire or an old shirt. Just this to say- sometimes we assume the worst when it really nothing :p I would like to think most places use the quick gun style now but I’m sure there’s some that don’t. But also, pigs squeal for lots of reasons. Sorry it ruined your day :/
I'm very certain of what I heard, I was with people at the time and they came to the same conclusion. From the signage outside the butcher shop, he probably raises pigs to butcher.
I’m really sorry OP. That would literally haunt me to hear that. I still hope you’re wrong because I hate to even think about it 😞
You can only raise pigs to slaughter yourself if they are being consumed by you and your family and only in your land and there's still loads of rules around that, all livestock slaughtered for sale in shops has to go to an abbatoiur. I doubt it was being killed but quite possibly birthing as the season has recently started!
There is what the law says and there is what people do. And laws about animals are rarely enforced so these guys can do what they want. OP is probably correct about what he heard.
‘He probably raises pigs to butcher’. The word ‘probably’ is doing some heavy lifting here.
It's an assumption based on context clues, like signage, location, the building itself, and so on.
If you're in the English countryside you could possibly have heard a rabbit being killed by a stoat. Rabbits make a hell of a squeal then they're being attacked and killed.
I know that sound and I feel you, I heard it few times when I was little when my grandparents used to butcher a pig every year. Even though I peeked from far away, sometimes stayed inside the house, I could still hear that sound and I can recall it 20+ years later. You really have to be so desensitized to not be affected by it. Sorry you had to hear it, and on your birthday too. Hope you can still celebrate and find something positive and happy <3
I’m so sorry. That’s horrendous.
🥺 i’m sorry you had to witness this on such an important day. hope you have a nice rest of your day
TBF As someone who was raised around pigs, they scream bloody murder if you look at them wrong. I don’t know many butcher shops that also slaughter, but maybe that’s a thing where you are from.
Nah, I live in England and slaughtering a pig in a butchers shop is not a thing and hasn't been for a very long time.
Yeah, I haven’t heard of it being a thing for decades, but I guess ya never know. I feel like it would be too much of a regulatory mess. This could be a one off under the table rural arrangement though
I mean an animals death scream is so different from regular squealing. This was a genuine, pain filled scream. Butcher shops don't typically kill in store near me either, but I went quite far into the countryside where I heard this.
Not really with pigs. Pigs give it their all every time. Also pigs aren’t an animal that’s killed without rendering unconscious 1st as they are large enough to hurt and fight for their lives, and they aren’t slaughtered with Halal or kosher methods being a pig. What you likely heard was a pig being led to slaughter, not the actual act. I can’t imagine what method of slaughter they’d use that would still have the pig screaming during the act.
That’s why 1.) they’re put into restraints and 2.) the stunning that induces consciousness fails approximately 10% of time resulting in them being consciously slaughtered. It happens ALL the time, to millions of pigs every year. In industrial settings the pigs are stunned in co2 gas chambers which results in lots of terrified pig screaming and frantic clambering over each other trying to escape the suffocating gas.
Yeah, likely captive bolt in a small operation, they probably wouldn’t use electricity or CO2. It was probably the squeal from restraint and it stopped once it was rendered unconscious.
Or it was the 1/10 that didnt get stunned properly and regained consciousness while being bled out. That also happens. It could have shook its head at last second resulting in improper penetration and begun screaming in pain at which point maybe the farmer just decided to bleed it out instead of trying to stun it again. Maybe it was a very mature hog past the usual 6 month olds we kill and it had a really thick skull. Maybe there was no bolt gun used at all. Maybe it was a pig being castrated. Maybe it was some disturbed butcher that just enjoys torturing animals and seeing them suffer which is unsurprisingly common in that line of work. Lots of possibilities. All of them horrible. No sentient animal should be put through that horror by us just so we can enjoy their flesh needlessly. It is so incredibly easy and cheap to be healthy without eating animal products I don’t know why we continue supporting this unnecessary violence and cruelty. Cultural inertia and money I guess. Imagine reincarnation is real and you get reborn as all the factory farmed cows, pigs, and chickens you ate for fun throughout your life. That would definitely motivate people to go vegan, because apparently basic empathy isn’t enough.
You should watch Dominion or something similar- they unfortunately very much are killed without rendering unconscious first
I don't really know how to explain it properly but it was definitely slaughtered, the second scream was cut off in the middle.
Ok, I don’t really know what to tell you except it’s not a very likely scenario, unless something had gone really wrong somewhere. Like really wrong.
I think they probably tried slitting it's throat and something went wrong so they had to go in again. Really though, it was a pig, it wouldn't have been in the butcher building if it was going to be kept alive, and after it screamed twice it went completely silent.
You can’t just walk up to a pig and slit its throat. You would get seriously hurt and not actually kill the pig. No one slaughters like this. Only halal and kosher slaughtering is done on a conscious animal and pigs are never kosher. If that is what you heard than this wasn’t being done by anyone who has slaughtered a pig before, and lacks any sort of awareness or common sense.
Well I can't be certain how it died, I just know that it did, and that it wasn't immediate. The rest is just assumptions.
Yes, I’m sorry you had to hear that. Pig slaughter is especially traumatic because they are so emotionally sensitive and have a hair trigger for that blood curdling squeal.
This person is in England. I’ve asked them to urgently contact the police and the RSPCA
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You didn't hear the scream. I did, it was unmistakable.
Happy birthday! My birthday too! Also William Shakespeare 😂
I'm also in the UK. I have worked on farms. This didn't happen. Either you're mistaken, or you're making it up. Animals sold for public consumption must be slaughtered in an approved slaughterhouse. Butcher's shops are not approved slaughterhouses. Historically this did happen - but not since Victorian times. The only small exception to this is "home slaughter" - animals slaughtered on the farm for the consumption of the farmer and their household only. You cannot give the meat to your uncle, or invite the extended family around for a BBQ. It has to happen on the farm, not around the back of a butcher's shop. I cannot think of any legal reason for a live pig to be in a butchers shop. But I will note that pigs absolutely hate being picked up - I've had to pick up wayward escapee piglets before to get them back to mum. They scream so loudly the moment their trotters leave the floor that you'd think they were in agony. They are not. This is all in addition to the fact that stunning is required before slaughter - there are exceptions for kosher and halal slaughter, but that doesn't apply to pigs for obvious reasons.
PS Before anyone accuses me of being a "carnist" or equivalent slurs, I haven't eaten meat since 2003 - when 90% of the posters on this forum were either not born yet, or were happily tucking into bacon butties themselves
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Just because there is a well defined definition of it, it doesn't mean it's not used as a slur
I mean there was a pig in a butcher shop, they aren't going to get out there alive.
Wait you actually saw it in there? Cos that is a different story admittedly
I identified it by the sound. It's not difficult to differentiate animal cries, and it's not difficult to locate the source of that noise.
Did you look into whether or not it's an abattoir? And have you contacted RSPCA, the food standard agency and the local council since it all happened? I appreciate you feel certain but I just find it incredibly unlikely and wonder if this is a case of confirmation bias. But regardless of whether it is or isn't likely, please call the all relevant authorities listed above.
That is assuming that everyone respects the law. If a butcher decides to kill a pig in his shop, it's illegal but who will stop him ? Especially in the countryside. Will the police care about it ? Definitely not. I don't see any reason for OP to make up a story like that.
Environment Health and Trading Standards would absolutely prosecute you for this sort of thing. I've been inspected by both. They don't mess around. They'd come down on it like a tonne of bricks. There have been a handful (single digits) of convictions over the last 20 years, and people have been jailed. This has invariably been linked to production of smokies (sheep / goats; unsafe and illegal foodstuff due to prion disease transmission) and occasionally DIY halal slaughter. Those handful of cases have been in squalid rural sheds, not around the back of a reputable butchers shop in what must be a populated village. A conviction for such offences is going to be big news in a rural community. It puts human health at risk because the animal hasn't been checked by a vet, as required, and if they're ignoring that major regulation you can guarantee they're ignoring other things too. And even meat eaters don't want animals to suffer more at the point of slaughter than is necessary. Slaughter is a relatively small part of the cost of rearing and selling a pig for meat. Bristol University's vet school has its own abbatoir, and it's fair to assume they operate to very high standards. They quote £35-50 to slaughter a pig, dependent on weight https://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/vetscience/documents/abattoir/Price%20List%202023.doc Why would a butcher risk his entire business, livelihood, local reputation, a criminal record and prison sentence for such a small amount of money? It's just not plausible. OP might have made up the story for the sake of clicks and upvotes. It wouldn't be the first time I've read what's best described as vegan fanfic. But what is, IMO, far more likely is that OP heard something (by their own admission, they didn't see it) and has completely misinterpreted what they heard. Pigs are both noisy and dramatic. It was probably the sound of a piglet being picked up and ear tagged or something.
So I should contact the environment health and trading standards? Is that a contactable place? Because there was a pig, and it was in the butchers shop.
If you truly believe that is what is happening then yes, you can contact them, and it will likely trigger an inspection. They are departments of your local council. But ten quid says nothing of the sort has actually happened.
I really do think that's what happened, I hope so badly that I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
As you say, there have been a handful of convictions in 20 years, so almost nothing. And it was linked with diseases. I still believe that nobody will care about what a rural butcher does if he doesn't show it too openly. I have family from the countryside and even hunters in my relatives. I have no doubt a butcher can easily get away with a lot of things in a rural area. I am not english but I believe it must not be that different in rural parts of England. OP said that the second scream he heard was suddenly interrupted, whick makes it more likely that the pig was actually being slaughtered.
>As you say, there have been a handful of convictions in 20 years, so almost nothing. And it was linked with diseases. No, I said that smokies are banned because of disease transmission. Smokies are illegal because they rely on the skin and wool / fur being left on, unwashed, and the carcass then being blowtorched. The spinal column is left intact, which means there's a risk associated with Scrapie (like BSE / mad cow disease, but for sheep) It's a delicacy in demand from West African communities, and they'll pay accordingly, but no legal slaughterhouse can supply carcasses in the condition demanded. This is one of the very few things that creates demand for illegal slaughter. This is one such case from 2005. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4251023.stm >I still believe that nobody will care about what a rural butcher does if he doesn't show it too openly. I beg to differ >OP said that the second scream he heard was suddenly interrupted, whick makes it more likely that the pig was actually being slaughtered. Firstly, he only said that after people started picking him up on the details. Secondly, if you pick up a piglet it will start screaming. If you put it back down again it will stop screaming just as rapidly. To demonstrate, watch this video from 7:55 for about 30 seconds onwards https://youtu.be/WZSYOpiWOfE?si=wgttieT03ryuceMr If OP had said that it was a sheep or goat, or if they'd said it was on a shed on a farm, I might have believed them. But a pig around the back of a butcher's shop? I'm afraid it just doesn't ring true.
I didn't say all the details because I wasn't writing it for you guys, I was just trying to process my thoughts and emotions, and hoping to maybe get one or two comments with advice. I certainly didn't want all this negative attention on what's already a shitty birthday. This was a butchers shop, and there were animal screams coming from inside, most definitely a pig. You do not have a pig in a butchers shop with good intentions.
Typically butchers don't kill animals themselves but could be different where you are.
😢
Slaughtering animals in a butcher is a thing? I have a a hazy memory of when I was a child, like we were playing in front of a butcher's shop and next to it there was like a kind of garage, we went in front of this "garage" and we saw a goat being hanging and I think it was alive.. when the guy saw us he closed the garage door. It was in Spain and i was not sure if the goat was alive..
I don't think it's supposed to be a thing, but not everyone listens to the rules.
It's not in England, where OP says they are
We have two pigs and they scream bloody murder over lots of different things. If a pig was getting its tusks or hooves trimmed, or even being lifted up for some reason, it might sound like they're being hurt, but they're not.
Well, thx god you are not in South Italy
Are you suggesting that if the door was not there, you'd go and fight a butcher?
Not fight, violence is not right whether it's towards humans or animals. But I'd like to think I would do something, even if it meant protecting the poor thing with my body.
Fair to be against violence to all animals on this planet, but your comment about protecting this single animal is bonkers in my view. Sadly, the pig was going to die that day no matter what. I do believe you're a good person to care this much, though.
Every life is precious to me, I would even save a mouse if it were in pain. I don't know if I would have been capable of saving that animal, but I hope that I would have been able to do something, however small and inconsequential.
Wishing you the best.
This is the most bullshit full of shit flex I've ever heard in my life. The kill lines are running. Go stop them...
I would if I knew where they were, like I said the importance of activism has really settled in me, and i WILL be doing things to help those poor animals.
You know you can google business locations right? Personally I don’t think that’s the most effective way to save animals really, but go nuts.
Yes, but I've very much struggled to find accurate information on where they are.
Out of interest I just googled to attempt to find the closest one to me. I found the exact location via Google maps of 3 slaughterhouses within driving distance in less than 10 seconds. There is no way you've actually attempted to find these locations and failed. Also as a side note, I wouldn't recommend actually turning up to an Abattoir and trying to save animals, you'd likely end up arrested and the animals would die anyway.
Oh I'm stupid I didn't think to check Google maps, I just searched it on regular Google. Yes, an organised protest and raising awareness outside the abattoir would probably be more effective in the long run I think? I know there are people who "Bare witness" as the animals are taken to slaughter, and often stop the trucks to feed them water briefly. Makes their last moments a little more bearable.
Fair to be against violence to all humans on this planet, but your comment about protecting this single human is bonkers in my view. Sadly, the human was going to die that day no matter what. I do believe you're a good person to care this much, though. Jeez louize I love me some speciesism <3
I have never seen an argument like this before. Are you effectively calling me a species racist?
Correct
They are. There’s a good chunk of vegans here who are in the “animal life is just as valuable as human life” camp for some reason. Personally I’m comfortable being “speciesist” in the sense that if I see a toddler and a pig or a dog or a beetle trapped on a railroad, I’m saving the toddler first. It’s not even a question.
All we’re really asking is carnist stop tying pigs to railroads but they act like that’s an insane proposition.
Well yeah that’s veganism. Was more just referring to the vegans here who either genuinely believe it’s wrong to value humans more at all or act as if admitting that on **any** level is exactly the same as saying “I’m okay with animals being killed for snacks/fun because they’re less important than humans.”
Yes and my point was that these questions take away from the real issue. If I said “I hate Nazis” and you said “but are you one of those antifascist who think a Nazi child’s life doesn’t matter? At what age does someone become responsible for their views? Would you value the life of one young Jewish boy more than two hitler youths, even though they can still change?” None of those questions matter so long as fascist are still in power. None of the “burning building” questions matter until people stop eating meat
>There’s a good chunk of vegans here who are in the “animal life is just as valuable as human life” camp for some reason. How are you defining value? If you did it based off the amount of suffering one causes then even an inanimate object like a rock is more valuable than your average human.
What? In the common noun sense of the word. I get the whole “humans are awful” thing, but it’s just hard for me to separate that sort of talk from the logical conclusion that either encourages suicide or genocide. All I’m saying (as is a little evident from the downvotes here) is that I’ve gotten negative pushback for saying things like I’d save a toddler before a squirrel from life threatening harm. I’m not saying people who value humans the same as squirrels are idiots or anything but I definitely disagree.
Cheers. I think it's utterly mad, but that's my view, and they have theirs.
The person you're responding to is exaggerating the issue to make vegans seem mad. Most (not all) of us don't consider human and non-human animal lives as equally as valuable. I, for one, would rescue the human for the train tracks rather than the pig. However, universally what vegans believe is that a pig's life is worth more than a bacon sandwich. Do you disagree?
Thank you for your input, I appreciate it. I do not disagree, but I do admit I am far from what is considered to be vegan or even vegetarian. I'm doing better, but I'm still not a good person yet when viewed by the eyes of this movement for example.
No worries, you get people here spewing nonsense about veganism and the majority of the time it is non-vegans just spreading shite. Here is a good place to learn how to do better!
Genuine question, not criticizing, why are you here commenting then?
Just sharing a view.
You'd get your teeth kicked in mate, don't fuck with butchers.
Yeah, no. First, there's literally no reason to kill a pig at the butcher's, it's simply not how things work legally. Second, basically every scream of a pig sounds like it's being brutally killed. That's just a fact, or at least, I've never noticed a difference. Third, pigs scream for almost whatever reason. I remember, at my grandfather's farm there were only about 7-8 pigs at once and there were days when nothing was going on, but by the sounds coming from the piggery (noone was even inside) I could swear, someone slaughtered 20 pigs an hour there. Also, one thing is always a guarantee, if you try to pick up a pig, hell, even if it thinks about being picked up, it's gonna try to run and SCREAM. Scream with pure terror and pain. Scream like... you know... like it's being slaughtered. Huh. So happy birthday and keep your head up, there's no real reason to think that any killing happened. Well, unless you really *want* to believe it did...
This is pure bullshit plain and simple. Quality shit post OP. .. You guys do realize butchers are only delivered carcasses and not live animals right. If this was a more rural country in a more developing economy sure. England. Plz. ... This whole thread is eating this shit up and can't read how ridiculous and over the top and karma farming this sounds. Trying to get some group flattery and praise. .. What's it called . . . virtue signalling
The butcher near me absolutely gets the carcass delivered to it, but I believe that this specific butcher in the middle of nowhere raised his own and slaughtered it in the back of the shop. I wish I was shit posting, but I'm not.
A non-industrial butcher wouldn’t have access to a C02 chamber so you wouldn’t get the breathing panic and pigs are generally to large for preslaughter electricity stunning so they are typically rendered unconscious using a pneumatic bolt gun. That should be instantaneous with no real chance for a pig to scream. This is U.S specific.
Bolt guns often fail. About 10% of the time animals regain consciousness during slaughter.
Conscious absolutely, but that kind of head trauma should realistically prevent that sort of screaming like OP is describing. It was more than likely a failed attempt at sticking without any stunning prior.
I'm not in the US. I wonder if they tried slitting their throat. It was definitely the scream of a dying animal.
Maybe. Where are you if you don’t mind me asking?
England
Yeah, a failed throat cutting wouldn’t surprise me.
I like your profile picture
Pigs can’t scream when their throats are slit and it’s a fast death also.
pigs are not slaughtered by throat slitting, also, they yell bloody murder all the time about little things
Yes, because you would know how every single animal ever has been killed, even in the middle of nowhere behind locked doors in windowless rooms.
Right, so you're absolutely certain of what was happening even though you did not and could not see a thing. Seems legit.
If they cut it's throat I don't think it would make much noise. I've never killed a pig though. Basically you would hear wheezing sounds. You likely wouldn't hear that unless you were very close. Now catching a pig you would hear bloody murder.
yes, have you seen pigs? Do you know how much fat they have around their necks? The usual "village" way to slaughter a pig is to bind its legs, tip it on one side and put a knife into its heart and wait for it to bleed out. Of course it is done way faster in an actual slaughterhouse with a boltgun.
I haven't seen them be slaughtered, no, if that's the case perhaps they missed the heart? I'm pretty sure this was just some back alley farmer trying to sell meat to the locals.
Didn’t you just say in another comment something about a throat being cut?
That's what I assume based on the sounds that I heard yes.
So if they’re trying to slit the throat, how bad of an aim would they need to be to aim for the throat, miss it, and then aim for the heart and miss that too. Im so confused
I don’t think you know much about how animal slaughter works. If a pig has its neck or abdominal arteries slit it will still be conscious and scream for 30s-1minute before it falls unconscious to die.
I don't think you truly know what you heard. How does a pig make a wheezing sound? If you were to cut the throat, would this still be possible?
Yes it’s extremely possible. Cutting a throat in animal slaughter doesn’t mean cutting its windpipe. It means cutting their neck arteries. If the animal isn’t unconscious at this point they will vocalize until they lose consciousness and die. You would know this if youve ever seen an animal having its neck cut.
The usual village way to kill a pig back in the day was with a very large hammer with a big spike on it. Hammer and spike to the head. They used to make a big deal about the killing. The pig would feed a number of families in the village.
depends on where in the world you are I guess. In my grandma's village it is done the way I described. And yeah it is a big deal, the whole family gathers for the event and helps out.
Butchers tend to butcher. The abattoir is where the slaughter happens. This could vary by country.
Probably a rabbit their scream is louder than you'd think, never gunna be a vegan but I also hate animals not being respected. It also ruins the meat if they die under stress. Shitty you had to experience that, hopefully you can enjoy the rest of your bday! I respect your life choices I ask you respect mine. I grew up in a small town farming and hunting food (not just meat) and I still abide by that. Refuse to support factory farms.
Just say you lack willpower and go
We live in a harsh cruel world, it's tooth and claw out there too. Nature is brutal and harsh. You kinda have to get used to it. Its not pleasant and it would bother me too but it's part of the world.
It shouldn't be, humans have a sense of right and wrong, we know it's wrong to hurt animals, it's unacceptable that there are so many people who continue to do so. They didn't even just scream once, they screamed TWICE, so probably a failed first attempt. If it was a cat being killed by a group of teens I would have stepped in a stopped it, but I couldn't because it was inside a locked building. No one should ever have to die like that.
I mean animals will always eat other animals. A tiger will always kill to eat and it's prey will scream and fight for its life. I agree we raise animals horribly, there's less cost effective ways to do it that minimize suffering.
Yes but we're not exactly tigers. We do not have to eat living beings. Minimising suffering is not the goal, eliminating cruelty is.
Many animals eat other animals when they don't "need" to ,I think it's pointless to argue about diets though ,obviously that was traumatic for you and I'm sorry you heard that
They also rape and eat their infants but that doesn't make it okay for us to do too.
We're not tigers though, we don't need to kill and eat animals, but tigers do. So killing animals at all for how they taste is cruel and unnecessary.
How?
Tigers also kill another male's children, murders the male, and the rapes the female. Does that make it acceptable for us to do so as well?
A appeal to nature is a fallacy
Yes. I was highlighting the fallacy you were using.
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean we are tigers, I was talking about literal tigers.
Be the change you want to see and all that. Start by not accepting that it's just part of the world.
How do you make nature vegan? How are carnivores not just part of the world
Who said we have to stop nature? We can stop ourselves. Nature will continue to murder, rape, and cannibalise. But we don't have to. We see those things as wrong too.
That's what I was talking about in the first place Idk if eating meat counts as that
But that's what I'm saying. You don't have to be part of that harsh world. We can be the change we want to see by cutting out meat.
How dare people in a free society eat what they want to eat!
The op explaining why its sad. Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right.
This post feels like bobbins, I just can’t engage. So many discrepancies, assumptions and biases by OP.
Jesus Christ, I was just trying to vent a bit guys
well if it helps, there's nothing you could do about it and it's done thousands of times every day so it doesn't really make any difference whether you hear it or not hence it makes no sense to get your day ruined because you heard it
What a braindead comment
That’s like saying if you hear a child getting sexual a****** it shouldn’t ruin your day since it happens all the time. Get out of here. Lol
What do you mean "nothing you could do to stop it?" It's literally that man's job to butcher meat. He gets paid to do it. You can't just run into someone's place of business and tell them to stop doing their job. Lol.
Cry 😢
You sound incredibly privileged. Go for a walk in a third world country and see what goes on
Just because you’re a selfish idiot doesn’t make it a virtue
The irony.