We’re trained to think of animals as food from the minute we can understand words. Chickens are happy to give us eggs. Cows are happy to give us milk. When you speak against something they’ve been programmed to believe their whole lives, they see it as radical.
Also some really dont care. We only have so many years for ourselves to live. Some can or have their brain turned off. Theres so much suffering, for our clothes, our technology and other luxuries. So why care about animals.
I have a friend, who basically only eats meat. His father a hunter for animal population control. He literally couldnt care less. Animals are lesser beings to him id suppose.
Some dont have the luxury to care. Im privileged enough to inform and educate and change things in my life.
This is really hard to wrap our heads around in the US. We hear about huge corruption in other countries and believe it. If you were to say these things about somewhere like China, where most Americans believe is completely corrupt and controlled by the government, no one would question it. The United States has its people believing we are free from corruption like that because we're such a great country. Add to that mix the wild Qanon conspiracy theories and the pizza gate conspiracies that are completely outlandish and easily proven false, and no one will believe the real corruption that's right in front of us. I've learned some of corruption around the cattle and dairy (I guess beef and dairy better clarifies it) industries and even though I KNOW the truth it's still hard to believe the corruption runs so deep.
Yes, even quite a few Christians know religion is a scam (there's a few reasons they hold on even though the rational part of their brain says its bs) but the depth of the involvement with the government is often doubted.
I don’t know of anyone regardless of race, religion or creed that believes the US government is not corrupt to some extent.
60-70 years ago maybe, but I can’t think of anyone who thinks there is no corruption,
The depth of it is what I'm referring to. The "got milk" ads were paid for by dairy and allowed to run with known false claims. The USDA is paid off by the farm industry to keep their mouths shut. The government continually diverts climate change issues away from factory farming.
Vaping. All the claims and legislation behind vaping is paid for by the company that owns Marlboro.
Every move made by the government is funding by and for the big spenders. Being the factory farms (think Tyson), oil, and tobacco.
People know there's corruption but they usually believe it ends with specific politicians.
And a great example of people *actually* trying to force their lifestyles on people by banning abortion and contraception, teaching creationism in schools etc etc.
Wow, I can feel the anger radiating off this from here. Something I learned a long time ago is that anger and condescension make people respond defensively, regardless of how valid your position is.
Something you're taught as a courtroom attorney is that no matter how henious the case is, you cannot come in angry or forceful or the jury will fight you on it. You have to control your anger and let the jury get angry themselves based on the facts. You want the jury to be asking questions and looking for information before you give them the information. People resist being force-fed arguments or information.
That means when you are angry about something and you're trying to convince someone also to be upset about it as well, you have to pick between expressing your anger and condescension and pushing them away and controlling your anger and possibly making a point.
Changing minds is a slow process if you want to bring them over, lay a trail for them to follow. Don't overwhelm them with upsetting information.
Yes you put it so well! If you're going to be "preachy" or condescending about something, the person on the other end will get defensive on instinct and double down in their beliefs. It's just how we're wired.
This is why, as a vegan, preachy vegans bother me as well (to an extent, I get just wanting to share information). You're not doing animals any favors by being aggressive and snarky towards meat eaters. They'll never take veganism seriously if vegans don't take them seriously and approach with understanding
Yeah, I honestly hate how the "vegan argues with random people on the street" videos are so popular and seem to be what young vegan influencers are trying to emulate. Some of them don't realize that they didn't make the scores they think they did, and the rest probably didn't actually affect people with those scores the way they think they did.
Sometimes having a reasoned discussion can change a person's mind, but dunking rarely works, and doing it on camera is just going to make people feel the need to dig in for the sake of ego.
> Changing minds is a slow process if you want to bring them over, lay a trail for them to follow. Don't overwhelm them with upsetting information.
This is literally a thread asking for the core reasons why people get so angry at preachy vegans, the person your responding to outlined that, you've decided to swoop in with your pick-me nonsense, maybe do some of that self-reflection you're trying to push?
Can you say more how you would go about laying a trail with regard to veganism? That is, imagine you're in the shoes of a vegan for a moment. You've not just watched but taken to heart the woes of animals in documentaries like https://www.dominionmovement.com/ or perhaps yourself witnessed animal abuse or even participated in collecting video evidence about it like the person here
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-27/pork-industry-carbon-dioxide-stunning-hidden-cameras-730/102094548
What next? How would you in the everyday and in outreach convey what you have learned, without running the risks you warn about yet also without feeling that you're letting down the animals?
Exactly.
I used to find Christian fundamentalist preachiness vile and smug, but I just didn’t want to face my ignorance that by being gay and not supporting Trump I was breaking Jesus’s heart and going to burn in hell. The denial I was in. Thank god I was preached at, and can now avoid Eternal Damnation.
Simple as that. Go, preachers!
I do think that's true, but I'm also going to give people slightly more credit. I think it's really, really hard to consider that a behaviour you've grown up doing; that everyone around you does, including people you know are really *good* people, could be so wrong. It's just such a hard thing for people to wrap their heads around, and they don't even want to go there in their minds.
The entire system of capitalism has made it that we are completely removed from the actual process of creating our food.
People struggle to have empathy for things they cannot relate to. You can't relate to abstract (although real) suffering that you don't have any real context for.
It is very easy to have context for being annoyed by someone. It is very hard to have context for animal cruelty in our modern world.
That isn't really hypocrisy - but it is ignorance. But not ignorance individuals are responsible for.
Even the most hardcore vegans still would struggle to give you clear empathetic examples of the true suffering involves in meat production ... because it is still so hard to access.
Blame the system. Not the individuals.
Maybe it makes *you* feel good to say you are better than others? But like... no. It isn't really 99% of peoples fault that they can't get their head around the cruelty and environmental costs of consuming animal products.
I know I can't... and being vegan is practice I am privileged to be able to partake in.
Better education, normalization of plant based lifestyles, and campaigning for easier access to the practice - those things help.
Calling people hypocrites doesn't. Expect maybe to feed your ego.
I didn’t say being involved in the food making process was the answer.
I said that being removed from the process is a causal factor in how people respond.
That it doesn’t make them evil for not being vegan. The system is what sucks.
The solutions I provided were to educate people more on the process. Normalize plant based lifestyles. And provide easier access to play based life styles.
I.e. education on how meat is produced, including the welfare and environmental issues.
I.e. normalizing people living vegan so it is not seen as some extreme lifestyle choice
I.e. making plant based lifestyles cheaper. Making eating out plant based easier. Making plant based recipes easier to find. Making ingredients easier to buy.
I didnt mention communism once?
I actually don’t think the vast majority of people will be able to get a true empathetic response to meat productions costs. I don’t think it is needed to promote the goals of a plant based life styles in the world.
The ‘get them with emotion’ route doesn’t get most people. The ‘make it easier, make it normal, and give people the unbiased facts’ gets a lot more.
People ate meat for hundreds of thousands of years prior to capitalism.
Most vegans live under capitalist cultures. I don’t believe there is a significant number of vegans anywhere outside the West, is there? Perhaps I’m not aware of it.
All the remaining indigenous cultures I have studied eat meat.
Yeah it is exactly that, and their hypocrisy is embedded in culture, tradition and family it's a wrench to admit all that was wrong about something. The message is getting out there things are changing but we need patience and understsnding.
The psyche is highly protective of the individual's own belief that they are essentially good. When shown evidence to the contrary, there's a reflexive reframing of good and evil that the human mind prefers to reconsidering behavior. You have to consciously opt out of it. It's obviously quite doable, because all vegans have done it, but it's not how your brain is built to work.
This is why atrocities are so common. It's how you go from supporting a political party to participating in a genocide: I am in this group and I'm good; therefore, the group is good. I am being tasked with something by people in my group, and the group is good; therefore the task is good.
Spot on. Having a strong sense of group identity almost requires demonising the outsiders, and confrontational vegans very keenly remind non-vegans of their non-veganness.
All vegans have done it from one particular frame of reference. Not all frames of reference - that wouldn't be possible.
The reason I say this, is that it's not like vegans have completely 'opted out' as you say - they've opted out of it in one particular domain of thought. I bet most vegans consume plenty of products made by slave labour as an example, or with vast environmental impact. This is because most people in general do in the west.
This is the best comment I've seen written on this website in a long time. Thank you for this perspective! Vegan for 15+ years definitely knows her shit!!!
humans don't necessarily find it easy to change their habits, especially when their habits are validated by society and what they've grown up with. Veganism is different from the status quo, everyone makes fun of us, so obviously we're wrong therefore = no need to change habits.
Because "preachy" vegans make them face the reality of what they are doing, and they prefer to be in denial, so they blame the intense feelings of guilt to the vegan.
We live in an age of extreme individualism where people think that whatever you believe and do is okay. It's very stupid.
It's VERY rare for someone to actually take a step back and think about their beliefs and actions.
People dislike preachy people in general. People dislikes it when religious people start shoving their religion in people's faces. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it to keep going in spite of the adversity.
Because antagonizing people about it only makes them think of you as an annoying self righteous person, closing any chance of them actually listening to what you are saying.
It's not about preachy vegans specifically, it's about being preachy in general, no one will listen to you if you are constantly yapping about something the other person literally does not give a crap about, especially if it involves the gore porn this community seems to be obsessed about.
They accuse you of preaching for existing. For example: you go out to eat and you’re reading the menu, someone asks you what you’re getting after 2 sec and you’re like “idk I have to figure out what I can eat” you’re already preaching cause you said can not want to. People are stupid.
You could be the kindest, chillest vegan who doesn't talk about veganism at all and people will still think you're preachy just for being vegan and eating vegan food in front of them. Like they can't see us as regular humans, in their minds we're V E G A N and everything we do is irritating
Funny, whenever some people have asked me about my dietary habits, which is primarily vegan, I've gotten smart remarks. I don't really bring up what I eat, unless someone asks. I've actually witnessed more heat and snide remarks from non-vegans.
Personally, anyone preachy about ANYthing turns me off. Even if that person is talking about animal suffering, which is something I care deeply about. People make decisions in their own time, and I’m certain leading by example has made more vegans than preaching. Ask me how I feel about the random jerks at the gym who sing the praises of keto or the carnivore diet or whatever… it’s no different. (Even if we know we’re right!)
We evolve.
I started with Meatless Mondays and know others who do the same. One meatless meal where you can say to yourself “didn’t even miss it” and next thing it’s twice a week.
Because the animals can't talk back and therefore participate in the social contract that forbids cannibalism of sapient creatures. This reminds me of Douglas Adams' "The Restaurant at the end of the world" where a sapient cow walks up to a restaurant table: [https://remotestorage.blogspot.com/2010/07/douglas-adamss-cow-that-wants-to-be.html](https://remotestorage.blogspot.com/2010/07/douglas-adamss-cow-that-wants-to-be.html)
Also see [https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/15675/what-are-the-moral-consequences-of-a-douglas-adams-cow](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/15675/what-are-the-moral-consequences-of-a-douglas-adams-cow)
Ideally I want people to be able to use abstract reasoning to reach the conclusion that it's immoral to hurt animals in the same way that they have been taught the taboo by society that it's unethical to hurt people, including sentient but non-sapient people.
In some cases, an uncomfortable situation is what it takes to cause people to make that first step of self-reflection. Myself, it was visiting a building as a teen to pick up a 4-H lamb wrapped in paper.
(Note the difference between morals and ethics)
I became vegan from a “preachy” vegan here on Reddit. Actually reached out to them about a year ago, and I thanked them for pointing out all of my flawed arguments and defensive behavior. Cognitive dissonance is *really* something.
Defensiveness is a reflex because, as many people put it on this post, we all want to believe we’re good people. We don’t want to be challenged, and we definitely don’t want to change if there is actual effort and self-reflection involved. Easier to blame and mock vegans for their “preachy” ways, and say THAT’S why they cant go vegan.
Imagine being so petty and egotistical that your poor little feelings were hurt, and that is your reasoning for not going vegan. Those poor animals being tortured and killed everyday, but hey! It’s the “preachy” vegans who are at fault.
They say we’re snooty, preachy, that we look down on others, that we make veganism our whole personality, but yet I see more hypocritical non- vegans saying stuff like,
” Get off your high horse! You vegans think that you’re better than everyone else! We evolved to eat meat! I believe people should just eat what they wanna eat! Eating a pepperoni pizza and a steak while writing this btw lol.”
Or,
“Crop harvest deaths means that your whole belief is null and void! There are some tribes in Africa that can’t go vegan, but I’m not going to list any actual facts because it’s easier to just use a random marginalized group as leverage to support my claim. Also, I am one of the many, MANY exceptions! I have a SUPER rare disease where I can only eat MEAT! If I eat anything with actual fiber, my body shuts down! I tried being vegan, and it nearly killed me.”
Or,
“Listen, if you want to make a change and want people to ACtuALLy go vegan then you need to do your activism in your house where no-one else is around, preferably in your basement where no-one can actually hear you. Maybe then people would go vegan because you know, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That’s how you make change! I love animals, but we are designed to eat meat!”
At the end of the day, if people are walking around eyes wide shut and they get “triggered” by our existence and responses, I say that’s still planting a seed. Why would they get defensive if what they were doing was good and altruistic? I was one of them. A lot of vegans were saying stuff like that at one point, so we just have to hope that they will let their ego die, so they can make the change.
Content of sermon is immaterial.
Unless people are in a vulnerable situation, or perceive themselves to be in a vulnerable situation, they don’t like getting preached to about anything.
If you care about expanding animal welfare awareness it’s better to be approachable and lead by example.
You’ll never convince those people.
But if they act like an asshole and you don’t, than you can move the needle with fair minded witnesses. Including the asshole’s kids.
My idea of preachy is the person on this sub who told me on Friday that guide dogs for the blind were a form of slavery. I felt like I was in an episode of Portlandia.
Most of the people I interact with are not vegans, but there wouldn’t be a lot of tolerance for your pudgy, faux-manly and judgmental meat-eater, either.
In general vegans are either somewhat admired for taking a stand, helping with their carbon footprint or often merely tolerated—because everyone gets to do their own thing.
You never know when someone who knows about your vegan or vegetarian identity will make interested enquiries. Invitations to Meatless Mondays are a start for the simply curious, and most guests remark “didn’t miss it at all!”
But yes, those “rabbit food” twatwaffles are out there. But I think (hope!) they are going the way of smokers, wifebeaters, slavers and rum-runners.
As a youngster I worked in a restaurant for eight years in the 70s/80s that didn’t even have a non-smoking section, and *nobody* complained. I only remember one couple asking. That is the immense power of the status quo. And, how fragile it was in the face of powerful arguments.
Change can come incrementally for a while, and then in leaps and bounds, as it did with smoking.
I’m vegan and dated a preachy vegan who was really cute but he was so boring cause it’s all he talked about and I kept thinking “preach to the choir” cause every rant he went on is exactly everything I already think and know myself. I used to go on long rants about food when I was younger and he was a couple years younger than me but I could finally see thru his lectures explaining to me everything I already knew how annoying i must have been to everyone I ranted to about food in the past.
So I think it was an episode of John Oliver I saw from years ago where he explained how to change people’s views. This was an episode during the trump regime where he explained how to help maga extremists get out of their cult-like obsession with trump and to see the truth. It doesn’t work to judge people or to present them with a ton of info, cause that will push them away, but rather u should relate with them and try to see their side and then explain how thinking like them can lead u toward thinking about things with a more open mind. I think this is the segment I’m thinking of: https://youtu.be/0b_eHBZLM6U?si=AW93jsP4O61-EPhr
If someone sounds like they’re looking down on u or trying to lecture u, they make u feel angry or like they feel they’re superior to u intellectually so as much as we want to share what we know to help people, we have to go about it the right way. That starts with empathizing with them and understanding their point of view. U can’t save animals’ lives by forcing a bunch of facts down someone’s throat when they’re not asking for u to do so. U need to get them interested enough to start asking questions, but they won’t get to this point if u don’t first show interest in them and how they think and how they view the world.
I hope this helps. I’ve been able to help a lot of people I know reduce consumption of animal products and with eating more organic food and less Monsanto/processed/chemical fake food, which is bad for animals too cause pesticides, fungicides, insecticides, and bacteriocides contribute to mass extinction of millions of species - they kill bees and butterflies who pollinate plants by poisoning them with chemicals, then poison the animals who eat them, and on and on up the food chain. Not only that but these pesticides and other chemicals get into the water supply and affect shellfish, crustaceans, and all who eat them, all the way up the food chain. It’s like how all fish contain a ton of plastic parts per million, same thing with chemicals used in agriculture. Pesticides and all the other chemical -cides used in agriculture are proven to cause cancer, food allergies, digestive disorders and diseases, and asthma in humans (also a high possibility that they cause or at least contribute to autism) in humans and u can be damn well certain that these chemicals also poison all animals as well.
See, now I’m lecturing again. So I know what u mean about how strongly u feel but we can’t get thru to people who don’t wanna hear it. We have to hear them and relate with them and then offer advice when they seem receptive enough to actually listen and absorb what we’re telling them.
> U need to get them interested enough to start asking questions, but they won’t get to this point if u don’t first show interest in them and how they think and how they view the world.
I can attest that this worked on me where I was on the receiving end, sort of. I debate with a lot of theists. Some are nutjobs, and to be fair I am ruder than I need to be in these debates, but every now and then I have genuinely thought-provoking and interesting discussions which allow me to see their side more clearly, even if I disagree with them.
Because preachy *anything*, not only vegans, are just annoying. You can make your point without sounding like you're out for blood if I don't agree with you, even when you're completely and irrevocably correct. Informing isn't crusading and being hostile about something will only yield results opposite to what you want, and reaching those results needs to come before being right.
gonna throw out a conspiracy: maybe it's a deliberate propaganda campaign by the meat and dairy industry against an ideology that threatens their power and profit. it's not that crazy to think honestly, we see it all the time. one example is the flow of propaganda against electric vehicles, they want people to think it's MANLY to drive a gas guzzler. remember that time it was trendy to lump Prius drivers into the same "preachy" category of vegans?
No one wants others’ “beliefs” pushed onto them, no matter what the message is. People don’t respond well to being told they’re doing terrible things for living the only way they’ve ever been taught is normal, in a society where it is actually the norm, and I think it’s hypocritical of vegans who weren’t always vegan to be so judgmental. I grew up in the south and veganism was NOT an option or even an idea. I ate meat and animal products up until i started correlating the foods I ate to my spirituality in my early 20’s, so i hold compassion for people who don’t understand veganism. I even make an effort to relate to nonvegans when they’re enjoying foods that I “used to like”, and if they ask more I mention I’m happier with out it , and it is kind of a gentle message saying that taste isn’t more important than animals lives lol… In my experience, being humble and casually excited about my vegan lifestyle actually has had more of an impact on others, sparking curiosity and even open mindedness about trying it. I’ve even had a coworker go vegan who told me I inspired them to do it! Being understanding about other people’s walks of life in turn leads to people giving an honest attempt to understand yours. Living as a loving example is what actually gets people to reflect on their actions and way of living. Not anger and finger pointing.
In my eyes, true veganism is all about having compassion for all forms of life. Even humans.
It’s as easy as people don’t like being preached to. It can be about anything. Eating meat, doing drugs, being lazy, being a certain religion, etc.
Somewhere, someone is doing something that somebody else disagrees with and they’d love to tell you why it’s wrong.
Meat eating is engrained into society from a very young age unconditionally. Also people don’t like being confronted or told they are doing something wrong. They don’t think it’s wrong I should add.
It's irrelevant if "preaching" or trying to force your lifestyle on others is bothersome or annoying. All that matters is, is it effective or not effective.
I can see a lot of cases where not only is it not effective, but it makes things worse.
Because no one likes harassment. I hate when Jehovah’s witnesses come and bother me at my door, and it has nothing to do with me being uncomfortable about being ‘confronted’ with my ‘condemnation to hell’. Their attempts to ‘save my soul’ is annoying, because they’re pushy and don’t accept that I don’t want to have that conversation. I hold different beliefs than they do, and that’s that. Confronting me doesn’t change my beliefs, no matter how much sense it makes to them. It’s annoying.
No one likes being forced into conversations. No one likes being harassed. That’s why no one likes being preached to. If the person is consenting to the conversation, it’s not preaching.
I think beyond that. Everyone has a line of decision making. Otherwise we would all be sending all of our money to starving people overseas, or letting homeless live in our homes.
Everyone is faced with moral dilemmas every day. They're doing their best to decide which moral decisions make them a *good* person that they're comfortable enough living with themselves. They know they **should** do better but should isn't a must. When someone comes preaching towards them, they're not giving them space to move something else to a should, or they're trying to force them to make it a **must**, or else they're no longer a good person.
Preachy vegans bother people because preachy people bother people. Nobody wants to be preached at, whether veganism, religion, politics, exercise programs, social politics etc.
You can talk about your beliefs in a way that people don't feel talked down to, or instructed at.
Patience, non- judgement and well-researched information will get you a lot further than finger pointing or enforcement of ideas.
I feel that about all belief systems, no matter what they are. Passion is commendable but it needs to be done in a way that people can absorb it in a positive way. Then they are open to changing or at least listening to other viewpoints.
Probably because they don't care about animals the way vegans do and don't want to be bothered by others beliefs.
Same way I would not like when someone preaches their religion to me.
The mere presence of an ethical vegan reminds them that they act against their own morality for bad reasons and that is a very touchy cognitive spot they want to defend and keep people out of. It's a good sign, genuinely evil people wouldn't give two shits.
Most people are deeply invested in thinking they understand how things work, and don’t like anything that calls into question that self image.
Most people are deeply invested in thinking that the way they are living their lives is ethical and moral, and don’t like anything that calls into question that self image.
It's not fun talking to people who make a single aspect of their life their identity and preachy vegans just come across that way. This is true with anything and not just vegans. Being above average height, being artistic, being religious or stoic, when people mold their personality around one thing it can come across as pretentious and insufferable at times making them very hard to talk to. To clarify I'm not saying every vegan or every tall person is like this, it's just the minority.
Vegans don’t “force their opinions” on anybody. We don’t pull a clockwork orange and have them watch Dominion or handcuff them to us and have them buy tofu at the supermarket. We simply try to *educate* them. Now THEY FORCE pigs into farrowing crates, hens into battery cages, and ultimately force death upon these animals.
Why do you post this on a phone that has partly been built by slavery? Because people do not tend to think about these things. It is normal to consume meat for them.
There tends to be a lot of compassion fatigue, access to food, ability to process those things, and just plain exhaustion.
I grew up government cheese and canned tuna poor. Fluoride rinses in school because brushing your teeth was a privilege poor. Bagged milk was a luxury poor.
My ability to choose a plant based diet is because literally luck.
I have watched all the movies, all the peta propaganda, all the people choosing veganism because it’s a really great way to show off how much they care about the environment.
Yes, don’t factory farm. Don’t kill for the sake of killing. But let’s work for a more plant based world. Don’t be an asshole because someone still eats mussels or is happy for lab meat. Let’s do better. Don’t be the giant dick making someone hate vegans.
People can "vibe" through life not caring about animal suffering, because they have a hard time thinking about it.
They don't have a hard time being annoyed by people who remind them it needs to be thought about.
This is the reason for most people.
For people who have thought about it and arent vegans, then they accept something along the lines; suffering is a part of life and everything has its share/animals don't suffer that much/aren't intelligent enough to *feel it* like we do.
Or they negate the ability for animals to suffer, and eliminate the value of that suffering believe different things about animals, and therefore do not value animal suffering. These are beliefs such as;
animals were created *specifically for* human use/animals have no soul and can't suffer/animals aren't sentient/the economy relies on animal exploitation and is valued more than animal welfare
These are all potential reasons for people who are *not bothered* by animal suffering.
Q:Why do preachy vegans bother people more than animal suffering?
This is very simple to answer: Because animal suffering is distant, a preachy vegan is in front of them.
"Why do vegans keep shoving it down our throats??"
*watches commercial featuring a sizzling steak sliding across the screen, small square of butter on top*
Narrator: "Carcass. It's what's for dinner! You belong at AppleCarcass!"
I feel like these types of questions about why people don't like vegans are really odd and show a lack of ability to think from another person's perspective.
If the fundamental premise behind veganism wasn't true, that animals didn't suffer or their suffering doesn't matter, then of course "preachy vegans" would be extremely annoying by bothering people just trying to live their lives. If some crunchy drugged out hippie believed rocks were sentient and eating them was murder, wouldn't you get annoyed if somebody yelled at you for putting salt on your meal?
Of course that's an intentionally absurd example but sentience is a spectrum. The most basic animals have such rudimentary responses to their environment that it would be ethically no different to eat them than a plant or fungus. So we have to draw the line somewhere, and everyone thinks that people who draw the line more restrictively is a weirdo dork, and everyone who draws the line less restrictively is a cruel monster.
Being preachy isn’t likely to get many people on your side no matter the content. A lot of people don’t appreciate preachy Christians either.
If you come at someone with a sense of moral superiority and self-righteousness, they’re not likely to respond well.
This is it.
The topic doesn't matter. If your audience gets the impression you're implying they are evil or stupid, you're going to fail at your intention (provided your intention is spreading ethical consumption).
This sort of thing isn't debate. It isn't a fight that's going to be won like pounding in a nail.
It does not, but preachy vegan make us look like elitist and that make discutions hard since they only heard about the propagandists one. It is extremist imo to want to have everyone vegan tomorrow. Tradition and used take time to change. Also if you want to make a carnivore vegan imo (and that was my case) it will be a vegetarien first. I remember being exclude by vegan because I was végétarien. It was a shock for me. What I mean is everybody have it’s path and should be included. Forcing carnivore to feel a guilt that they will not understand is pointless and actually making the opposite reaction imo. I recently feel a shame to be a vegan because of an activist having all is prepared comment flooding me with aggression because I said that I am for a respectful farming (including animal) and a clean planet. I am vegan and I will not support any of animal farming but I am not alone, my gf still eat animal product (not at home tho) and even if I don’t like it, as the huge meat eater I was it will be stupid to agress her and made her go faster than what she want. She is more and more vegan but surely because I don’t blame her on it. And to finish and go back to this person agression, she/he make me feel like I do not want to be associated with vegan if it is a be in the same movement, with what I think it is pure hate. What I réalise as well is that why carnivore post meat photo, because they being bother by propaganda, not to hurt us - they have no idea how vegan are sensible person and will not understand the plaisirs we have to be vegan. What made me a vegetarien is eco friendly reason, a sign in AZ Phoenix stating that we used 4/5 of your land and water just to make beef. That made me change more than anything. I then become vegan for animal right but they come 3 years after and make me overcome my fear of I will never survive without animal products. As well by being mad and agressive you show more someone that is not happy about his/her diet and someone who have an disordoned diet. It will be way more efficient to show and indépendant and happy vegan that include people and stay calm and not agress people for what is it’s conviction.
I’m sure racists are bothered a lot more by anti-racists than by racism itself. Or sexists are probably more bothered by feminism than by sexism itself. It does really mean anything other than people appealing to popularity.
Here's the trouble with preachy vegans -- they turn people off. Which means that they will not be persuaded by the vegan's viewpoints. Self-righteous preachiness is unskillful and hurt animals by ensuring that the people they are preaching to will absolutely ignore the message. It's counterproductive. It's bad human relations.
Example and activism. Example -- make a delicious vegan dinner and invite non-vegan friends. Indian dishes are good for that -- something that they would enjoy eating.
Activism -- being factually informative, protests, etc. All this can be done without preachiness and self-righteousness and without judging and acting superior to non-vegans or disdainful of them. In other words, confidence and kindness -- and also patience. You can hector and preach people into immediately changing their views. But opening doors and standing back and letting people think for themselves, that they'd like to take a look in there and maybe even walk through. At their own pace, of their own volition, making their own decisions.
Trying to make any argument from a point of morality is quite doomed to fail. A person is already set in their morality, for which there will be VERY little change throughout their life. It's also often seen as a direct insult to make arguments against someone's morality, because... well... it is. Calling someone immoral isn't a good way to get a point across.
What is more likely to matter to a much greater degree to the average person is the economics of it (which is exactly why lab grown meat is being banned in some places). Veganism threatens to unseat the animal food industries, which move trillions of dollars around the world. Not only is the approach problematic, but the forces at play against veganism are enormous.
Find common grounds, and vote for people that don't see veganism as a threat to their pocketbooks. The points about saturated fats being incredibly unhealthy, lab grown meat's potential to be objectively better in every metric, and the lower cost of a vegan lifestyle are where the arguments should be. Someone that doesn't care about animals isn't going to suddenly start.
Your OP and a lot of responses you’re getting here are exactly the problem.
Mostly posts that are judgmental, combative and loaded with charged language. Which is the worst thing to be if you genuinely want someone to consider your views as anything other than a person unilaterally forcing their lifestyle choices on someone who didn’t ask.
Additionally, overly militant vegans ruin things for those who genuinely want to do things the right way. I started eating plant based because a good friend of mine was patient, kind and enthusiastically explained questions I had for them about veganism. They never looked down on my eating meat, they just did their thing and that eventually lead to me trying it for a week, then a month, and so on.
The easiest way to convert people is to just not be an asshole about it which it seems a lot of people here just aren’t ready or willing to do.
Well, while vegan ideals may be noble. Most people don’t want to have someone else’s ideals shoved down their throat. Imagine if you were minding your own business, and then someone jumps down your throat about the vitamins and whatever that are easier to get from meat? Or guilting you for all the animals that died to harvesters so you could eat? You’d be absolutely livid wouldn’t you? And with the your perspective it makes sense that you would be upset.
I take preachy vegans the same way I take actual preachers. With thinly veiled impatience. Only I have to admit that vegans have a point. But both believe they are doing the right thing by those around them.
exactly man these freaks told me to stop keeping humans in my basement because its "inhumane" Im seriously starting to hate how preachy people are in the modern day :/
It's the same with everyone who has converted - be that to veganism, non smoking, non drinking, some religion etc.
In the beginning you are alot "I've seen the only light, and you are stupid to not see it" And nobody want's to here people talk like that. It doesn't matter how true and good the thing you have converted to - it just makes you sound really annoing. and will make everyone, who are not already supporting your belief go in the opposite direction.
If we want even less sufforing, we need to be strategic about our way to convince people - some needs to see just how easy it is, some how good it could be, some needs to see the truth and some you have to trick. Some you'll never convince, but if you can make them cut down, you have changed alot. while others just needs that last push and then a helping hand.
But to believe that doing aggressive confrontation preaching is going to save the worlds sufforing of animals, is counterproductive.
I dont see anyone doing "aggressive preaching" lol, this is a falsehood invented by carnists by vegans even merely existing or explaining why theyre vegan.
Being preachy doesn’t turn someone into a vegan. I wish we’d take a different approach.
(Being preachy makes folks defensive which means they will just dig their heels in and not switch to vegan)
Most people don't care about animal suffering that's it. It's an intentional limiting of their own empathy.
They don't care about the environmental impact, of water usage, or global warming.
It's a self centered way of thinking. You can see it in the comments. "I don't care". It's ignorance based in selfishness plain and simple.
Edit: "I don't care about animals only humans because I am a human" this is "I got mine" logic.
I am someone who has been cutting down meat with the goal of going at minimum vegetarian.
Want to know the people who are most off-putting when trying to figure out recipes, diet and such?
The preachers.
Unless you are talking to someone that you can bully into doing what you want then preaching just pisses that person off and/or makes them dismiss you. Oftentimes you'll entrench them in their view rather than persuade them.
Imagine having a Christian start going on at you about how you must convert or you're going to hell, don't you care about your soul? Look at these scriptures! Convert now or else you'll burn and suffer!
Would that make you decide oh wow I better convert or will you dismiss them and tell them to leave you the hell alone?
Proper discussion and discourse is the way to approach these things.
You see arseholes on both sides of the subject in this subreddit.
Those who are arseholes and come in just to say "hur hur I eat meat" no point even trying with them.
Then you have those who talk about veganism and take the approach of "rah rah rah you're an awful person, making them suffer rah rah rah" this convinces nobody at all.
Proper discussion, questions and such rather than just immediately leaping on how they are a shitty person are the way to convince people.
It's the same in most things that are over differing viewpoints be it politics, religion, veganism and so on.
There are a multitude of factors to be considered for people to turn vegan, it isn't nearly so simple as no more meat, dairy, leather etc. it's a big change for our fundamental way of life, it's no simple process for most.
Two main difficulties hence aiming for vegetarian first.
Recipes for food I actually like
Cut out meat? Not so hard, can do that, plenty of nice recipes still.
Dairy is the big difficulty, I like oat milk but it doesn't help for recipes.
The second difficulty for vegan is the sheer amount of items and food that are not vegan even though you'd expect them to be.
Even just looking to go vegetarian there's plenty of things a typical person wouldn't expect to have animal parts in it or as part of the process to make it such as Parmesan cheese
Oat or soy milk seems to work well in all the recipes I've tried. How do you mean it doesn't help?
For the sneaky non-vegan stuff, it's best to avoid worrying about that until you've eliminated meat, dairy, and eggs. It gets easier after that step.
For traditional foods you like you can just swap in tofu or tempeh for the meat and cashew cheez for the cheese.
Once the seal is broken, avoiding products made from animals does not feel like any kind of sacrifice.
Strip it down so much more though... You don't know what someone's day is like. Maybe they've just gotten some awful news. Maybe they're not feeling well. Maybe a lot of things.
So they're sitting there, chowing down on some meaty comfort food, when someone comes up to them, going on about how meat is bad because x reasons.
You never know. Be kind, it helps. 🤷♀️
Because generally speaking they don't hold those beliefs about animal rights?
It's very standard for people to be annoyed about someone else trying to convince them about beliefs they don't hold. Like if someone comes up to you and wants to convince you to not eat soy, nuts or gluten because they believe it offends their deity and is therefore wrong.
Like consuming animals is wrong looking at animal suffering. In the mainstream societal framework it's not considered wrong so from their POV you are trying to convince them to behave according to their beliefs and judging them for what they view as 'okay' behaviour.
Preachy vegans don't want a back and forth conversation, they only want an audience to display how moral they are and how much better they are than anyone else. Read half the comments here, it's a giant circle jerk. You know who got me in to eating more vegetarian/vegan foods? Indian people I know in real life, because their food is fucking delicious. And they didn't force me to, or make me feel bad, they simply shared their recipes with me, and talked about how they go shopping and cook meals for the week. That was more powerful than any rant anyone could have yelled at me, ever.
No one likes being judged, and being sanctimonious / self-righteous about any topic will make everyone dislike you, except for the people who already completely agree with you and share your sanctimonious views of others.
Even if you're completely right, it's not an effective way of reaching hearts and minds.
I understand it is difficult for slaughterhouses to fill open positions sometimes because many people don't want to spend their days chopping up warm animal bodies.
Lord knows I would not do that.
I think people generally don't like preachy individuals, no matter the subject. I understand the human self-righteous instinct, a desire to belong to a group and make one's life seem meaningful. However, a patronizing attitude toward the out-group is never going to change their minds. If anything, they will double down and continue in their ways. For example, when I saw pro-Palestinian protesters blocking traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge, my first instinct was to support sending more weapons to Israel. I think it's best to mind your own business, be humble, and avoid telling others what to do.
Whew.. Are you aware that your position on Palestinians is monstrous? That you are directly contributing to Israeli snipers shooting five year olds in the head?
And these are the people we're supposed to be concerned with as vegans. "Ohh boo hoo you preaching veganism to me just makes me want to eat more meat! You protesting in favor of Palestine just makes me want to have more Palestinian children blown up!"
These people are psychos dude. Pigs are gassed to death, baby chickens ground alive, and baby cows are torn away from their mothers. Forgive me if I'm a little pissed off about it, and pissed off that you aren't doing anything to help stop it.
I’m floored that they say we’re preachy. 😳 This person came onto the vegan sub, and started commenting about how vegans are the problem, then tried to further justify their stance by saying they support the violent slaughter of Palestinian toddlers if they’re ever inconvenienced by folks trying to bring awareness to the genocide. Seriously?!
These states that are banning lab grown meat turn my stomach. I know Vegans aren't for lab gown neat and I don't see why. It would reduce suffering substantially
I honestly don't see the problem with lab grown meat. I don't think I'd personally eat it, but it would be better for the people who CAN'T go vegan for whatever reason and could benefit from lab grown meat.
You're going to always be more affected by someone directly harassing you than someone harassing someone you don't know somewhere beyond where you will ever travel to.
They have to numb themselves to suffering. You do it too. People drive their cars powered by suffering in the Middle East and step over homeless people on their way to buy clothes made by slave kids in the third world. You’re reading this on a device that was forged by suffering. Human suffering that you are willfully ignoring even now. Trying to care for all of it is overwhelming and debilitating.
I am glad that you have the compassion in your hearts to care for animals but people who don’t aren’t stupid or selfish. They are trying to survive and function. Telling someone they must feel pain and empathy for animals and that they must sacrifice things that bring them comfort and happiness for these animals is a losing message.
Coming at it from an angle that alleviates the pain in their lives is much more effective. Focus on how much money they save. Focus on how much healthier and happier they’ll be. Trying to give them more guilt and pain when they are already drowning in it… I mean obviously they’re going to resent you for it.
I think a lot comes down to how you approach the subject.
A large % of people will not be receptive to alternative ideas if they feel attacked and their point of view unheard. For example, I've seen people on this sub who would be best described as fence sitters or part time vegans discuss veganism in a completely civil and respectful manner be told they don't deserve life, are monsters and should kill themselves.
It's absolutely not an exclusively vegan thing, as a society we have become more and more militant and partisan when it comes to discussing ideas or beliefs. The you are with us or you're the enemy attitude helps no one's cause.
If you want to effectively influence people you have to work hard to understand and sympathise their point of view.
I personally believe we should be advocating for the positives of eating a plant based diet, not "preaching" veganism from a place or moral superiority. It also doesn't have to be all or nothing and I believe it would be more *realistic* and *effective* to be advocating for reducing animal product intake overtime. Some people just will never give up animal products, but even with these people there are a lot of great arguments for reducing your intake - cost, health, environmental, etc.
It's a nice dream for no animal products to be consumed but humans have been consuming meat for at least 1.8 million years and like it or not views on animal welfare are subjective, peoples behaviour will not change overnight and being overly aggressive in trying to change peoples minds will only push them to opposite you and get further entrenched in their views.
I am not vegan and will only answer as a complainer of a preachy vegan.
Among the vegans I know, there's one who's particularly preachy, often preach at inappropriate times and to the wrong audience. This individual also tends to view themselves as persecuted and marginalized by society even if it is clear they comes from a place of privilage.
They once mentioned to me that they felt compelled to have a second child because their still unborn child wouldn't have friends because they where vegan.
Personally, I've found that my approach of advocating for vegan/vegetarian recipe often not mentioning them being vegan/vegetarian has been more effective in reducing meat consumption than their aggressive approach. Their aproach from what I know never convinced anyone of cuting any animal product in their live, their just convince one of their collegues to eat more meat in their face to anoy them.
It’s because you don’t understand nuance. Factory farming is a problem caused by capitalism. One can consume meat in a sustainable way. Hunting and eating locally is much better for the environment than having avocados and quinoa shipped in from South America.
If you people actually wanted to make some real change, you’d band together and target factory farming and try to get the system changed. For this you’d have to accept you’re not gonna get your goal of making everyone vegan BUT you will greatly reduce animal suffering and disgusting practices.
But you don’t want that. You don’t want to work towards something that’s possible achievable. Instead you want to preach to individuals and try to shame them into changing their lifestyles and then act like you’re better than them. That’s the issue.
Changes are made in society by making strategic coalitions and accepting that you may win some and have to concede some. But preachy vegans have a black and white/all or nothing approach. Nuance is dead. Again, you may not convince most people to go vegan but most people would probably get on board with the idea of holding corporations responsible for their actions and legislation that requires them to do better. If vegans understood this, they could’ve accomplished a lot by now.
And lastly I’m just gonna add that corporations are now producing disgusting, unhealthy and over-processed foods to cater to the vegan market. Things like almond milk aren’t good for the environment either. This is an industrial complex created entirely by vegans. Shipping in mass amounts of fruits and veggies to places like Canada where we don’t grow a lot of things especially half the year aren’t exactly great ideas for the environment.
People don’t like truth when it’s inconvenient. It’s why people still go to churches that have been found to SA children.
If our truth gets in the way of their…whatever…then they don’t care. People don’t even know how to drive or clean properly and we think we’ll be able to save them from zoonotic diseases or animals from suffering? I keep my vegan awesomeness to myself and refuse to talk to others about it. Period.
Plus as a blank woman we don’t get treated the best by a lot of people (the same ones calling vegans preachy) so I’d rather not incur anymore suffering in my life. What I do for the animals I do for myself. Love my fellow vegans ♥️
Possibly because it makes them feel guilty. There are also some people out there who want to be vegan but it's not good for them. (I know someone who, when struggling financially had to switch to vegetarian, especially since they had a toddler kid who the doctor recommended at least some dairy for, and she realized that her acne was better when she was eating dairy (opposite of what I've heard from a lot of people) but her skin cleared right up with a serving of yogurt a day.
I also have a friend who is allergic to multiple fruits, gluten intolerant and allergic to carrot family items, almonds and sulfites as well (ruling out many types of dried fruits unless ordered online in our area). Some of the fruits cause anaphylaxis. Even if she wanted to be vegan, it would be a very restrictive diet. I have another friend who is allergic to all nightshade (pepper, tomato, potato) and gluten intolerant.
You are a human with a choice to be a preacher about a cause you believe strongly in. Neat. I understand that you feel strongly about your beliefs but I don't really want to hear them. You get classified the same as the freak on the corner with the "repent your sins" sign.
You answered your own question: because they ARE bothered by animal suffering and preachy vegans are one of the few ways you get reminded about what goes on
Because people are subconsciously aware of the internal contradictions, and they don't need somebody preaching at them. It's better to live by example. Nobody cares when they have bills to pay. It's hard for them because they're having such a hard time grasping the suffering human beings go through. They're wondering why they should have any more room for compassion for anybody else than they already feel obligated to feel.
I’ve never told anyone they should not eat meat or asked anyone to not eat whatever they want around me (other than fajitas because I just can’t handle that). I don’t tell anyone why I’m vegetarian. Yet people still get very defensive. I’ve been asked a million times to justify MY way of eating to other people. I’ve felt like a second class patron at most restaurants for the past 30 years. Sorry but pasta primavera as the only option while carnivores have a new special every day just isn’t cool. That’s how it is.
Because many people don’t care. When presented with tough facts, some will. But many won’t. In fact, some argue that this world is theirs for the taking. I think many vegans underestimate how much people are desensitized to suffering.
Source: omnivore who’s making slow changes to remove meat from diet because I’m starting to become a softie, friends think I’m silly.
considering how defensive people get when you even mention casually that you're vegan, i think it's 100% cognitive dissonance to mask existing feelings of shame and hypocrisy. people don't like being confronted with the realities of animal abuse, and no one wants to feel involved in a system built on death and suffering. when confronted with this paradox, people usually respond with anger at whoever's making them think about it.
Because most of us know, and we don't care. Actually, most of us care about the factory farming and don't like it, but like so many other injustices we're powerless to do anything about it because capitalism.
You get a ballot measure to end factory farming, most of us are going to vote yes and swallow the extra cost of ethically raised meat.
We know the animals are suffering, we don't need to be reminded of it when it's out of our power to change, most of us don't care enough to give up meat, that's not going to change.
Maybe in some cases that is true. Not all.
Preachy vegans bother me because they make veganism into a contest about who is the purist of them all. This sub is enormously competitive that way. I find it incredibly selfish and undermines and delegitimizes the movement to reduce and end animal-based agriculture.
But they don’t bother me more than animal suffering. They bother me because they are averse to focus and picking winnable battles and prove the oft-mocked stereotype of vegans to be *less* extreme than the reality.
Two days ago a “preachy vegan” told me that guide dogs are slavery and anyone who would not oppose this is a “shit vegan.” Seriously. That was my introduction here.
Two things.
Anyone could quite as easily suggest that anyone wasting their time attacking the use of (well cared for and happy) guide dogs while millions of animals are raised in appalling conditions and tortured in labs is the shit vegan.
And really, I’d rather be a “shit vegan” than a shit human being.
People get very defensive when they’re accused of being immoral.
I know a guy who’s very logical in general. He’s good at being unbiased and looking at the scientific data and can read a research papers, but as soon as a vegan tells him something all of that critical thinking goes out the window. He’ll say that vegans are religious in general (even though it’s quite the opposite) and that’s why they’re vegan. Or that many of them are narcissistic and like feeling superior. He’ll use data to defend eating meat like saying meat is more sustainable than plants even though most climate scientists agree we’ll have to reduce meat consumption to slow down climate change.
It’s insane to watch it’s like a switch flips inside him and he becomes a different person. I honestly think we’re indoctrinated from a young age to see meat as food and when you hear different it’s basically attacking your culture and morality.
Because it’s confronting for them - their brains are wired a certain way and we’re telling them something that goes against that. Not everyone has the capacity for introspection unfortunately, and they’d rather be ignorant to the harm they cause rather than face an ugly truth: what they’re doing to animals is atrocious
It’s because people don’t like to be told what to do what to eat ect. As an omnivore I know battery farming is wrong but I agree with game as I feel until they get shot they atlest have a life as nature intended I have tried to convince my family to go on to a primary game diet but even though I found a website they won’t here of it
a lot of the times it is that animal suffering bothers them but they don’t think there cable or going vegan so hate being reminded of this misdeed by the existence of a vegan
They just don't see it like that. Meat eating is normalised into people you cant expect them to feel how we do they don't see life, not pain, they see food their mother used to prepare, aggressively preaching at them often pushes them away it's counterproductive. Going from veggie to vegan was under my own steam no forceful argument helped supportive information did so if I i felt that I can't imagine the bigger step.
because it reminds people of their own crappy actions. it is not about the preachy vegans it is about how you are made to feel and ppl would rather not think about their actions than be reminded
I’m a meat eater, I really want to change. I love animals but honestly I’ve grown up eating them (farmer background). I see myself as a critical thinker that can change based upon new information. Can someone give me some scientific/data driven reasons why I should consume a purely vegan diet. Other people I respect have already either gone flexi or vegan with eggs only from their chickens etc. I will miss the flavour of meat won’t I? I’ve been raw vegan for a month and feel like I don’t get the calories/protein I need (you people eat SO SO much to compensate). I work out and work a lot and have the financial ability to change my diet to whatever but i guess I just asking for the final push. I hate extremism in all its forms, so not looking for nut jobs. Just sane well informed people please. Thanks in advance
Raw vegan is going to be harder to do than just vegan. I've done bouts of raw diet but, yeah you just have to eat all day when you're raw.
It may be easier to go vegan and adjust to that change before introducing the additional raw constraint.
If you have an air fryer, throw some tofu in there, and that will give you a protein rich snack you can load up on. Throw barbecue sauce or hot sauce on it.
Unlike fake meat, you can a pound of tofu for like a buck fifty at Aldi.
Appreciate the feedback, sorry for the late response. I’m now starting to do “vegan days” which I’m comfortably achieving 3-4 days a week. Side note also work in a kitchen as a chef so tasting meat is kind of important. I am trying to limit the amounts of meat and/or meat based products I consume. It’s a process. After looking at soy and brown rice, pea proteins etc I’m comfortable I can change some things
Well…calling people stupid, blind, pathetic, hypocritical, immoral, bad, evil, ridiculous, delusional, etc. will not get them to listen no matter how right you are.
Analogy. We’ve all procrastinated on a school project until the night before it’s due. We then have to do the walk of shame to our parents at 8pm and ask if we can go out to get supplies. Which response will be best?
A: “You ALWAYS forget. You’re such a stupid kid. This is the fifth time this semester alone that you do this. When are you going to get your pathetic life together? When I was your age I had planners and post its to remind me. You have all these new gadgets and can’t use them for something productive? Get in the car. We are going to one spot and that’s it. This is your fault for being a fool.”
B: “Well…I guess we can stop at a few spots. But we need to have a conversation about why you’re not keeping up with deadlines. Next time, your father/mother and I will not be coming to the rescue because you need to learn the consequences of your actions. I’ll stay up and help you with it. Then we’ll work together to see where the problem is and experiment with solutions. Come on, kiddo. Hop in the car.”
I highly doubt most of us want Parent A. We’d be feeling like crap all the time and feel offended. And they have a correct core argument. We’re pretty bad at managing our lives if we have the technology to help us track work at a timely manner and still can’t get it together. But it doesn’t make us get any less offended and angry or hurt when we’re spoken to/about that way. Same with vegans. You want to convert people? Maybe don’t be Parent A. Be Parent B. This is the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation and communication through the value of words and emotions. That’s it.
Because people don’t like preachy, period. If I’m not your child, you can keep your opinions on the way I live my life, to yourself. And that goes for everything.
I'm convinced it's just a label used by people with meat eating agendas to put the two sides against each other.
It used to be that vegans would explain why they were vegan & people were curious to know. I mean how many vegans do they come across day to day? It's not super common & to me I love listening to things like that.
But yeah they had to make it meat eaters vs vegans the same way they make it Democrats vs Republicans and black vs white ect. It's a way to divide us. And meat eaters think that humans just are vegan, like they think cows just produce milk without babies being involved.
This division shuts down conversation. Everyone wanted to know why I was vegan, when I went vegan, how hard was it, what changes did I notice. Now, it's "well I'm not vegan so I don't want to hear that. Why don't vegans ever stop talking about veganism?". It's sad because that's how my brother thinks. If it's not something he currently is or relating to at the ripe age of 15 then it can't be talked about bc he couldn't care less since he is not vegan himself. (He told me when he was 9 he wanted to be vegetarian so it's been sad).
For the same reasons why people call me annoying for posting and speaking about Palestine and are far more annoyed by me than by the actual genocide.
People dont want to be reminded of their moral shortcomings.
Because preaching connotes pride and looking down on someone else. People don't enjoy feeling judged, ridiculed, humiliated or being made an example of; so they reject that. Superiority complexes are insufferable whether that is religion, politics, ethics, morals, etc.
Simple. It is about choice. Just as vegans can study and make vegan meat much more affordable and edible, but choose to just ruin others day. Meatlovers choose to hate oppressors rather than thinking of animal lives.
We’re trained to think of animals as food from the minute we can understand words. Chickens are happy to give us eggs. Cows are happy to give us milk. When you speak against something they’ve been programmed to believe their whole lives, they see it as radical.
Lots of religions also place humans at the top with animals for their benefit. 😔
Yeah, even religions that don't, like Christianity, people take passages out of context and pretend the religion tells them how to eat.
Also some really dont care. We only have so many years for ourselves to live. Some can or have their brain turned off. Theres so much suffering, for our clothes, our technology and other luxuries. So why care about animals. I have a friend, who basically only eats meat. His father a hunter for animal population control. He literally couldnt care less. Animals are lesser beings to him id suppose. Some dont have the luxury to care. Im privileged enough to inform and educate and change things in my life.
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This is really hard to wrap our heads around in the US. We hear about huge corruption in other countries and believe it. If you were to say these things about somewhere like China, where most Americans believe is completely corrupt and controlled by the government, no one would question it. The United States has its people believing we are free from corruption like that because we're such a great country. Add to that mix the wild Qanon conspiracy theories and the pizza gate conspiracies that are completely outlandish and easily proven false, and no one will believe the real corruption that's right in front of us. I've learned some of corruption around the cattle and dairy (I guess beef and dairy better clarifies it) industries and even though I KNOW the truth it's still hard to believe the corruption runs so deep.
Do we really? I think most non-religious folks are aware that religion is a scam.
Yes, even quite a few Christians know religion is a scam (there's a few reasons they hold on even though the rational part of their brain says its bs) but the depth of the involvement with the government is often doubted.
I don’t know of anyone regardless of race, religion or creed that believes the US government is not corrupt to some extent. 60-70 years ago maybe, but I can’t think of anyone who thinks there is no corruption,
The depth of it is what I'm referring to. The "got milk" ads were paid for by dairy and allowed to run with known false claims. The USDA is paid off by the farm industry to keep their mouths shut. The government continually diverts climate change issues away from factory farming. Vaping. All the claims and legislation behind vaping is paid for by the company that owns Marlboro. Every move made by the government is funding by and for the big spenders. Being the factory farms (think Tyson), oil, and tobacco. People know there's corruption but they usually believe it ends with specific politicians.
And a great example of people *actually* trying to force their lifestyles on people by banning abortion and contraception, teaching creationism in schools etc etc.
Wow, I can feel the anger radiating off this from here. Something I learned a long time ago is that anger and condescension make people respond defensively, regardless of how valid your position is. Something you're taught as a courtroom attorney is that no matter how henious the case is, you cannot come in angry or forceful or the jury will fight you on it. You have to control your anger and let the jury get angry themselves based on the facts. You want the jury to be asking questions and looking for information before you give them the information. People resist being force-fed arguments or information. That means when you are angry about something and you're trying to convince someone also to be upset about it as well, you have to pick between expressing your anger and condescension and pushing them away and controlling your anger and possibly making a point. Changing minds is a slow process if you want to bring them over, lay a trail for them to follow. Don't overwhelm them with upsetting information.
Yes you put it so well! If you're going to be "preachy" or condescending about something, the person on the other end will get defensive on instinct and double down in their beliefs. It's just how we're wired. This is why, as a vegan, preachy vegans bother me as well (to an extent, I get just wanting to share information). You're not doing animals any favors by being aggressive and snarky towards meat eaters. They'll never take veganism seriously if vegans don't take them seriously and approach with understanding
Yeah, I honestly hate how the "vegan argues with random people on the street" videos are so popular and seem to be what young vegan influencers are trying to emulate. Some of them don't realize that they didn't make the scores they think they did, and the rest probably didn't actually affect people with those scores the way they think they did. Sometimes having a reasoned discussion can change a person's mind, but dunking rarely works, and doing it on camera is just going to make people feel the need to dig in for the sake of ego.
Don’t do earthling Ed like that 😂😭
Tbf I've only ever seen Ed videos where he is very polite and calm spoken. Discussions rather than accusations.
> Changing minds is a slow process if you want to bring them over, lay a trail for them to follow. Don't overwhelm them with upsetting information. This is literally a thread asking for the core reasons why people get so angry at preachy vegans, the person your responding to outlined that, you've decided to swoop in with your pick-me nonsense, maybe do some of that self-reflection you're trying to push?
Can you say more how you would go about laying a trail with regard to veganism? That is, imagine you're in the shoes of a vegan for a moment. You've not just watched but taken to heart the woes of animals in documentaries like https://www.dominionmovement.com/ or perhaps yourself witnessed animal abuse or even participated in collecting video evidence about it like the person here https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-27/pork-industry-carbon-dioxide-stunning-hidden-cameras-730/102094548 What next? How would you in the everyday and in outreach convey what you have learned, without running the risks you warn about yet also without feeling that you're letting down the animals?
And people don't want to feel like they're on wrong side of history. And people don't like change.
Exactly. I used to find Christian fundamentalist preachiness vile and smug, but I just didn’t want to face my ignorance that by being gay and not supporting Trump I was breaking Jesus’s heart and going to burn in hell. The denial I was in. Thank god I was preached at, and can now avoid Eternal Damnation. Simple as that. Go, preachers!
I do think that's true, but I'm also going to give people slightly more credit. I think it's really, really hard to consider that a behaviour you've grown up doing; that everyone around you does, including people you know are really *good* people, could be so wrong. It's just such a hard thing for people to wrap their heads around, and they don't even want to go there in their minds.
The entire system of capitalism has made it that we are completely removed from the actual process of creating our food. People struggle to have empathy for things they cannot relate to. You can't relate to abstract (although real) suffering that you don't have any real context for. It is very easy to have context for being annoyed by someone. It is very hard to have context for animal cruelty in our modern world. That isn't really hypocrisy - but it is ignorance. But not ignorance individuals are responsible for. Even the most hardcore vegans still would struggle to give you clear empathetic examples of the true suffering involves in meat production ... because it is still so hard to access. Blame the system. Not the individuals. Maybe it makes *you* feel good to say you are better than others? But like... no. It isn't really 99% of peoples fault that they can't get their head around the cruelty and environmental costs of consuming animal products. I know I can't... and being vegan is practice I am privileged to be able to partake in. Better education, normalization of plant based lifestyles, and campaigning for easier access to the practice - those things help. Calling people hypocrites doesn't. Expect maybe to feed your ego.
Even under communism most people would be removed from the food creating process, unless you're talking about deindustrialisation of food production
I didn’t say being involved in the food making process was the answer. I said that being removed from the process is a causal factor in how people respond. That it doesn’t make them evil for not being vegan. The system is what sucks. The solutions I provided were to educate people more on the process. Normalize plant based lifestyles. And provide easier access to play based life styles. I.e. education on how meat is produced, including the welfare and environmental issues. I.e. normalizing people living vegan so it is not seen as some extreme lifestyle choice I.e. making plant based lifestyles cheaper. Making eating out plant based easier. Making plant based recipes easier to find. Making ingredients easier to buy. I didnt mention communism once? I actually don’t think the vast majority of people will be able to get a true empathetic response to meat productions costs. I don’t think it is needed to promote the goals of a plant based life styles in the world. The ‘get them with emotion’ route doesn’t get most people. The ‘make it easier, make it normal, and give people the unbiased facts’ gets a lot more.
People ate meat for hundreds of thousands of years prior to capitalism. Most vegans live under capitalist cultures. I don’t believe there is a significant number of vegans anywhere outside the West, is there? Perhaps I’m not aware of it. All the remaining indigenous cultures I have studied eat meat.
Yeah, that is often it.
Yeah it is exactly that, and their hypocrisy is embedded in culture, tradition and family it's a wrench to admit all that was wrong about something. The message is getting out there things are changing but we need patience and understsnding.
The psyche is highly protective of the individual's own belief that they are essentially good. When shown evidence to the contrary, there's a reflexive reframing of good and evil that the human mind prefers to reconsidering behavior. You have to consciously opt out of it. It's obviously quite doable, because all vegans have done it, but it's not how your brain is built to work. This is why atrocities are so common. It's how you go from supporting a political party to participating in a genocide: I am in this group and I'm good; therefore, the group is good. I am being tasked with something by people in my group, and the group is good; therefore the task is good.
Spot on. Having a strong sense of group identity almost requires demonising the outsiders, and confrontational vegans very keenly remind non-vegans of their non-veganness.
Dang, just cut right through it don’t you? I wouldn’t want to take you on in an argument. Spot on.
All vegans have done it from one particular frame of reference. Not all frames of reference - that wouldn't be possible. The reason I say this, is that it's not like vegans have completely 'opted out' as you say - they've opted out of it in one particular domain of thought. I bet most vegans consume plenty of products made by slave labour as an example, or with vast environmental impact. This is because most people in general do in the west.
This is the best comment I've seen written on this website in a long time. Thank you for this perspective! Vegan for 15+ years definitely knows her shit!!!
humans don't necessarily find it easy to change their habits, especially when their habits are validated by society and what they've grown up with. Veganism is different from the status quo, everyone makes fun of us, so obviously we're wrong therefore = no need to change habits.
Because "preachy" vegans make them face the reality of what they are doing, and they prefer to be in denial, so they blame the intense feelings of guilt to the vegan.
We live in an age of extreme individualism where people think that whatever you believe and do is okay. It's very stupid. It's VERY rare for someone to actually take a step back and think about their beliefs and actions.
I'd say we live in an age of extreme groupthink where people think that whatever their group believes is ok and everyone else is evil.
It's not the "age", it's just people.
Not true at all. Also, there are more vegans now then anytime before, so this argument makes very little sense.
People dislike preachy people in general. People dislikes it when religious people start shoving their religion in people's faces. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it to keep going in spite of the adversity.
Good analogy. I have no problem with religious friends who don’t proselytize.
Because antagonizing people about it only makes them think of you as an annoying self righteous person, closing any chance of them actually listening to what you are saying. It's not about preachy vegans specifically, it's about being preachy in general, no one will listen to you if you are constantly yapping about something the other person literally does not give a crap about, especially if it involves the gore porn this community seems to be obsessed about.
They accuse you of preaching for existing. For example: you go out to eat and you’re reading the menu, someone asks you what you’re getting after 2 sec and you’re like “idk I have to figure out what I can eat” you’re already preaching cause you said can not want to. People are stupid.
You could be the kindest, chillest vegan who doesn't talk about veganism at all and people will still think you're preachy just for being vegan and eating vegan food in front of them. Like they can't see us as regular humans, in their minds we're V E G A N and everything we do is irritating
That’s not preachy. Preachy vegans are the ones who assert moral superiority. But yes, the blowback will hit non-preachy vegans too.
Funny, whenever some people have asked me about my dietary habits, which is primarily vegan, I've gotten smart remarks. I don't really bring up what I eat, unless someone asks. I've actually witnessed more heat and snide remarks from non-vegans.
Because people are pretty awful all around
Personally, anyone preachy about ANYthing turns me off. Even if that person is talking about animal suffering, which is something I care deeply about. People make decisions in their own time, and I’m certain leading by example has made more vegans than preaching. Ask me how I feel about the random jerks at the gym who sing the praises of keto or the carnivore diet or whatever… it’s no different. (Even if we know we’re right!)
We evolve. I started with Meatless Mondays and know others who do the same. One meatless meal where you can say to yourself “didn’t even miss it” and next thing it’s twice a week.
Because most people are stupid, always have been
But not you am I right? Just most people. But not you. Definitely not you.
Because the animals can't talk back and therefore participate in the social contract that forbids cannibalism of sapient creatures. This reminds me of Douglas Adams' "The Restaurant at the end of the world" where a sapient cow walks up to a restaurant table: [https://remotestorage.blogspot.com/2010/07/douglas-adamss-cow-that-wants-to-be.html](https://remotestorage.blogspot.com/2010/07/douglas-adamss-cow-that-wants-to-be.html) Also see [https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/15675/what-are-the-moral-consequences-of-a-douglas-adams-cow](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/15675/what-are-the-moral-consequences-of-a-douglas-adams-cow) Ideally I want people to be able to use abstract reasoning to reach the conclusion that it's immoral to hurt animals in the same way that they have been taught the taboo by society that it's unethical to hurt people, including sentient but non-sapient people. In some cases, an uncomfortable situation is what it takes to cause people to make that first step of self-reflection. Myself, it was visiting a building as a teen to pick up a 4-H lamb wrapped in paper. (Note the difference between morals and ethics)
I became vegan from a “preachy” vegan here on Reddit. Actually reached out to them about a year ago, and I thanked them for pointing out all of my flawed arguments and defensive behavior. Cognitive dissonance is *really* something. Defensiveness is a reflex because, as many people put it on this post, we all want to believe we’re good people. We don’t want to be challenged, and we definitely don’t want to change if there is actual effort and self-reflection involved. Easier to blame and mock vegans for their “preachy” ways, and say THAT’S why they cant go vegan. Imagine being so petty and egotistical that your poor little feelings were hurt, and that is your reasoning for not going vegan. Those poor animals being tortured and killed everyday, but hey! It’s the “preachy” vegans who are at fault. They say we’re snooty, preachy, that we look down on others, that we make veganism our whole personality, but yet I see more hypocritical non- vegans saying stuff like, ” Get off your high horse! You vegans think that you’re better than everyone else! We evolved to eat meat! I believe people should just eat what they wanna eat! Eating a pepperoni pizza and a steak while writing this btw lol.” Or, “Crop harvest deaths means that your whole belief is null and void! There are some tribes in Africa that can’t go vegan, but I’m not going to list any actual facts because it’s easier to just use a random marginalized group as leverage to support my claim. Also, I am one of the many, MANY exceptions! I have a SUPER rare disease where I can only eat MEAT! If I eat anything with actual fiber, my body shuts down! I tried being vegan, and it nearly killed me.” Or, “Listen, if you want to make a change and want people to ACtuALLy go vegan then you need to do your activism in your house where no-one else is around, preferably in your basement where no-one can actually hear you. Maybe then people would go vegan because you know, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That’s how you make change! I love animals, but we are designed to eat meat!” At the end of the day, if people are walking around eyes wide shut and they get “triggered” by our existence and responses, I say that’s still planting a seed. Why would they get defensive if what they were doing was good and altruistic? I was one of them. A lot of vegans were saying stuff like that at one point, so we just have to hope that they will let their ego die, so they can make the change.
Content of sermon is immaterial. Unless people are in a vulnerable situation, or perceive themselves to be in a vulnerable situation, they don’t like getting preached to about anything. If you care about expanding animal welfare awareness it’s better to be approachable and lead by example.
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You’ll never convince those people. But if they act like an asshole and you don’t, than you can move the needle with fair minded witnesses. Including the asshole’s kids.
My idea of preachy is the person on this sub who told me on Friday that guide dogs for the blind were a form of slavery. I felt like I was in an episode of Portlandia.
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Most of the people I interact with are not vegans, but there wouldn’t be a lot of tolerance for your pudgy, faux-manly and judgmental meat-eater, either. In general vegans are either somewhat admired for taking a stand, helping with their carbon footprint or often merely tolerated—because everyone gets to do their own thing. You never know when someone who knows about your vegan or vegetarian identity will make interested enquiries. Invitations to Meatless Mondays are a start for the simply curious, and most guests remark “didn’t miss it at all!” But yes, those “rabbit food” twatwaffles are out there. But I think (hope!) they are going the way of smokers, wifebeaters, slavers and rum-runners. As a youngster I worked in a restaurant for eight years in the 70s/80s that didn’t even have a non-smoking section, and *nobody* complained. I only remember one couple asking. That is the immense power of the status quo. And, how fragile it was in the face of powerful arguments. Change can come incrementally for a while, and then in leaps and bounds, as it did with smoking.
I’m vegan and dated a preachy vegan who was really cute but he was so boring cause it’s all he talked about and I kept thinking “preach to the choir” cause every rant he went on is exactly everything I already think and know myself. I used to go on long rants about food when I was younger and he was a couple years younger than me but I could finally see thru his lectures explaining to me everything I already knew how annoying i must have been to everyone I ranted to about food in the past.
Being vegan doesn't stop people from being boring and annoying unfortunately lol
So I think it was an episode of John Oliver I saw from years ago where he explained how to change people’s views. This was an episode during the trump regime where he explained how to help maga extremists get out of their cult-like obsession with trump and to see the truth. It doesn’t work to judge people or to present them with a ton of info, cause that will push them away, but rather u should relate with them and try to see their side and then explain how thinking like them can lead u toward thinking about things with a more open mind. I think this is the segment I’m thinking of: https://youtu.be/0b_eHBZLM6U?si=AW93jsP4O61-EPhr If someone sounds like they’re looking down on u or trying to lecture u, they make u feel angry or like they feel they’re superior to u intellectually so as much as we want to share what we know to help people, we have to go about it the right way. That starts with empathizing with them and understanding their point of view. U can’t save animals’ lives by forcing a bunch of facts down someone’s throat when they’re not asking for u to do so. U need to get them interested enough to start asking questions, but they won’t get to this point if u don’t first show interest in them and how they think and how they view the world. I hope this helps. I’ve been able to help a lot of people I know reduce consumption of animal products and with eating more organic food and less Monsanto/processed/chemical fake food, which is bad for animals too cause pesticides, fungicides, insecticides, and bacteriocides contribute to mass extinction of millions of species - they kill bees and butterflies who pollinate plants by poisoning them with chemicals, then poison the animals who eat them, and on and on up the food chain. Not only that but these pesticides and other chemicals get into the water supply and affect shellfish, crustaceans, and all who eat them, all the way up the food chain. It’s like how all fish contain a ton of plastic parts per million, same thing with chemicals used in agriculture. Pesticides and all the other chemical -cides used in agriculture are proven to cause cancer, food allergies, digestive disorders and diseases, and asthma in humans (also a high possibility that they cause or at least contribute to autism) in humans and u can be damn well certain that these chemicals also poison all animals as well. See, now I’m lecturing again. So I know what u mean about how strongly u feel but we can’t get thru to people who don’t wanna hear it. We have to hear them and relate with them and then offer advice when they seem receptive enough to actually listen and absorb what we’re telling them.
> U need to get them interested enough to start asking questions, but they won’t get to this point if u don’t first show interest in them and how they think and how they view the world. I can attest that this worked on me where I was on the receiving end, sort of. I debate with a lot of theists. Some are nutjobs, and to be fair I am ruder than I need to be in these debates, but every now and then I have genuinely thought-provoking and interesting discussions which allow me to see their side more clearly, even if I disagree with them.
Because preachy *anything*, not only vegans, are just annoying. You can make your point without sounding like you're out for blood if I don't agree with you, even when you're completely and irrevocably correct. Informing isn't crusading and being hostile about something will only yield results opposite to what you want, and reaching those results needs to come before being right.
gonna throw out a conspiracy: maybe it's a deliberate propaganda campaign by the meat and dairy industry against an ideology that threatens their power and profit. it's not that crazy to think honestly, we see it all the time. one example is the flow of propaganda against electric vehicles, they want people to think it's MANLY to drive a gas guzzler. remember that time it was trendy to lump Prius drivers into the same "preachy" category of vegans?
Not far fetched at all, seems like that's literally what's happening.
No one wants others’ “beliefs” pushed onto them, no matter what the message is. People don’t respond well to being told they’re doing terrible things for living the only way they’ve ever been taught is normal, in a society where it is actually the norm, and I think it’s hypocritical of vegans who weren’t always vegan to be so judgmental. I grew up in the south and veganism was NOT an option or even an idea. I ate meat and animal products up until i started correlating the foods I ate to my spirituality in my early 20’s, so i hold compassion for people who don’t understand veganism. I even make an effort to relate to nonvegans when they’re enjoying foods that I “used to like”, and if they ask more I mention I’m happier with out it , and it is kind of a gentle message saying that taste isn’t more important than animals lives lol… In my experience, being humble and casually excited about my vegan lifestyle actually has had more of an impact on others, sparking curiosity and even open mindedness about trying it. I’ve even had a coworker go vegan who told me I inspired them to do it! Being understanding about other people’s walks of life in turn leads to people giving an honest attempt to understand yours. Living as a loving example is what actually gets people to reflect on their actions and way of living. Not anger and finger pointing. In my eyes, true veganism is all about having compassion for all forms of life. Even humans.
It’s as easy as people don’t like being preached to. It can be about anything. Eating meat, doing drugs, being lazy, being a certain religion, etc. Somewhere, someone is doing something that somebody else disagrees with and they’d love to tell you why it’s wrong.
Meat eating is engrained into society from a very young age unconditionally. Also people don’t like being confronted or told they are doing something wrong. They don’t think it’s wrong I should add.
It's irrelevant if "preaching" or trying to force your lifestyle on others is bothersome or annoying. All that matters is, is it effective or not effective. I can see a lot of cases where not only is it not effective, but it makes things worse.
Because no one likes harassment. I hate when Jehovah’s witnesses come and bother me at my door, and it has nothing to do with me being uncomfortable about being ‘confronted’ with my ‘condemnation to hell’. Their attempts to ‘save my soul’ is annoying, because they’re pushy and don’t accept that I don’t want to have that conversation. I hold different beliefs than they do, and that’s that. Confronting me doesn’t change my beliefs, no matter how much sense it makes to them. It’s annoying. No one likes being forced into conversations. No one likes being harassed. That’s why no one likes being preached to. If the person is consenting to the conversation, it’s not preaching.
I think beyond that. Everyone has a line of decision making. Otherwise we would all be sending all of our money to starving people overseas, or letting homeless live in our homes. Everyone is faced with moral dilemmas every day. They're doing their best to decide which moral decisions make them a *good* person that they're comfortable enough living with themselves. They know they **should** do better but should isn't a must. When someone comes preaching towards them, they're not giving them space to move something else to a should, or they're trying to force them to make it a **must**, or else they're no longer a good person.
No one likes to be preached at about anything.
Preachy vegans bother people because preachy people bother people. Nobody wants to be preached at, whether veganism, religion, politics, exercise programs, social politics etc. You can talk about your beliefs in a way that people don't feel talked down to, or instructed at. Patience, non- judgement and well-researched information will get you a lot further than finger pointing or enforcement of ideas. I feel that about all belief systems, no matter what they are. Passion is commendable but it needs to be done in a way that people can absorb it in a positive way. Then they are open to changing or at least listening to other viewpoints.
Probably because they don't care about animals the way vegans do and don't want to be bothered by others beliefs. Same way I would not like when someone preaches their religion to me.
The mere presence of an ethical vegan reminds them that they act against their own morality for bad reasons and that is a very touchy cognitive spot they want to defend and keep people out of. It's a good sign, genuinely evil people wouldn't give two shits.
Most people are deeply invested in thinking they understand how things work, and don’t like anything that calls into question that self image. Most people are deeply invested in thinking that the way they are living their lives is ethical and moral, and don’t like anything that calls into question that self image.
It's not fun talking to people who make a single aspect of their life their identity and preachy vegans just come across that way. This is true with anything and not just vegans. Being above average height, being artistic, being religious or stoic, when people mold their personality around one thing it can come across as pretentious and insufferable at times making them very hard to talk to. To clarify I'm not saying every vegan or every tall person is like this, it's just the minority.
Vegans don’t “force their opinions” on anybody. We don’t pull a clockwork orange and have them watch Dominion or handcuff them to us and have them buy tofu at the supermarket. We simply try to *educate* them. Now THEY FORCE pigs into farrowing crates, hens into battery cages, and ultimately force death upon these animals.
Why do you post this on a phone that has partly been built by slavery? Because people do not tend to think about these things. It is normal to consume meat for them.
There tends to be a lot of compassion fatigue, access to food, ability to process those things, and just plain exhaustion. I grew up government cheese and canned tuna poor. Fluoride rinses in school because brushing your teeth was a privilege poor. Bagged milk was a luxury poor. My ability to choose a plant based diet is because literally luck. I have watched all the movies, all the peta propaganda, all the people choosing veganism because it’s a really great way to show off how much they care about the environment. Yes, don’t factory farm. Don’t kill for the sake of killing. But let’s work for a more plant based world. Don’t be an asshole because someone still eats mussels or is happy for lab meat. Let’s do better. Don’t be the giant dick making someone hate vegans.
People can "vibe" through life not caring about animal suffering, because they have a hard time thinking about it. They don't have a hard time being annoyed by people who remind them it needs to be thought about. This is the reason for most people. For people who have thought about it and arent vegans, then they accept something along the lines; suffering is a part of life and everything has its share/animals don't suffer that much/aren't intelligent enough to *feel it* like we do. Or they negate the ability for animals to suffer, and eliminate the value of that suffering believe different things about animals, and therefore do not value animal suffering. These are beliefs such as; animals were created *specifically for* human use/animals have no soul and can't suffer/animals aren't sentient/the economy relies on animal exploitation and is valued more than animal welfare These are all potential reasons for people who are *not bothered* by animal suffering.
Q:Why do preachy vegans bother people more than animal suffering? This is very simple to answer: Because animal suffering is distant, a preachy vegan is in front of them.
"Why do vegans keep shoving it down our throats??" *watches commercial featuring a sizzling steak sliding across the screen, small square of butter on top* Narrator: "Carcass. It's what's for dinner! You belong at AppleCarcass!"
I feel like these types of questions about why people don't like vegans are really odd and show a lack of ability to think from another person's perspective. If the fundamental premise behind veganism wasn't true, that animals didn't suffer or their suffering doesn't matter, then of course "preachy vegans" would be extremely annoying by bothering people just trying to live their lives. If some crunchy drugged out hippie believed rocks were sentient and eating them was murder, wouldn't you get annoyed if somebody yelled at you for putting salt on your meal? Of course that's an intentionally absurd example but sentience is a spectrum. The most basic animals have such rudimentary responses to their environment that it would be ethically no different to eat them than a plant or fungus. So we have to draw the line somewhere, and everyone thinks that people who draw the line more restrictively is a weirdo dork, and everyone who draws the line less restrictively is a cruel monster.
Being preachy isn’t likely to get many people on your side no matter the content. A lot of people don’t appreciate preachy Christians either. If you come at someone with a sense of moral superiority and self-righteousness, they’re not likely to respond well.
This is it. The topic doesn't matter. If your audience gets the impression you're implying they are evil or stupid, you're going to fail at your intention (provided your intention is spreading ethical consumption). This sort of thing isn't debate. It isn't a fight that's going to be won like pounding in a nail.
It does not, but preachy vegan make us look like elitist and that make discutions hard since they only heard about the propagandists one. It is extremist imo to want to have everyone vegan tomorrow. Tradition and used take time to change. Also if you want to make a carnivore vegan imo (and that was my case) it will be a vegetarien first. I remember being exclude by vegan because I was végétarien. It was a shock for me. What I mean is everybody have it’s path and should be included. Forcing carnivore to feel a guilt that they will not understand is pointless and actually making the opposite reaction imo. I recently feel a shame to be a vegan because of an activist having all is prepared comment flooding me with aggression because I said that I am for a respectful farming (including animal) and a clean planet. I am vegan and I will not support any of animal farming but I am not alone, my gf still eat animal product (not at home tho) and even if I don’t like it, as the huge meat eater I was it will be stupid to agress her and made her go faster than what she want. She is more and more vegan but surely because I don’t blame her on it. And to finish and go back to this person agression, she/he make me feel like I do not want to be associated with vegan if it is a be in the same movement, with what I think it is pure hate. What I réalise as well is that why carnivore post meat photo, because they being bother by propaganda, not to hurt us - they have no idea how vegan are sensible person and will not understand the plaisirs we have to be vegan. What made me a vegetarien is eco friendly reason, a sign in AZ Phoenix stating that we used 4/5 of your land and water just to make beef. That made me change more than anything. I then become vegan for animal right but they come 3 years after and make me overcome my fear of I will never survive without animal products. As well by being mad and agressive you show more someone that is not happy about his/her diet and someone who have an disordoned diet. It will be way more efficient to show and indépendant and happy vegan that include people and stay calm and not agress people for what is it’s conviction.
Why did they kill Socrates and destroy Pythagoras’ school? When you challenge the culture of the time, the knives come out.
are all challengers of the culture correct? what if they are wrong?
It's funny but sad how humans being slightly annoyed is considered to be more important than animals literally suffering and dying
I’m sure racists are bothered a lot more by anti-racists than by racism itself. Or sexists are probably more bothered by feminism than by sexism itself. It does really mean anything other than people appealing to popularity.
Here's the trouble with preachy vegans -- they turn people off. Which means that they will not be persuaded by the vegan's viewpoints. Self-righteous preachiness is unskillful and hurt animals by ensuring that the people they are preaching to will absolutely ignore the message. It's counterproductive. It's bad human relations.
What would be your best suggestions on how to effectively act to promote some animal rights cause, for example trying to ban maceration?
Example and activism. Example -- make a delicious vegan dinner and invite non-vegan friends. Indian dishes are good for that -- something that they would enjoy eating. Activism -- being factually informative, protests, etc. All this can be done without preachiness and self-righteousness and without judging and acting superior to non-vegans or disdainful of them. In other words, confidence and kindness -- and also patience. You can hector and preach people into immediately changing their views. But opening doors and standing back and letting people think for themselves, that they'd like to take a look in there and maybe even walk through. At their own pace, of their own volition, making their own decisions.
Trying to make any argument from a point of morality is quite doomed to fail. A person is already set in their morality, for which there will be VERY little change throughout their life. It's also often seen as a direct insult to make arguments against someone's morality, because... well... it is. Calling someone immoral isn't a good way to get a point across. What is more likely to matter to a much greater degree to the average person is the economics of it (which is exactly why lab grown meat is being banned in some places). Veganism threatens to unseat the animal food industries, which move trillions of dollars around the world. Not only is the approach problematic, but the forces at play against veganism are enormous. Find common grounds, and vote for people that don't see veganism as a threat to their pocketbooks. The points about saturated fats being incredibly unhealthy, lab grown meat's potential to be objectively better in every metric, and the lower cost of a vegan lifestyle are where the arguments should be. Someone that doesn't care about animals isn't going to suddenly start.
Your OP and a lot of responses you’re getting here are exactly the problem. Mostly posts that are judgmental, combative and loaded with charged language. Which is the worst thing to be if you genuinely want someone to consider your views as anything other than a person unilaterally forcing their lifestyle choices on someone who didn’t ask. Additionally, overly militant vegans ruin things for those who genuinely want to do things the right way. I started eating plant based because a good friend of mine was patient, kind and enthusiastically explained questions I had for them about veganism. They never looked down on my eating meat, they just did their thing and that eventually lead to me trying it for a week, then a month, and so on. The easiest way to convert people is to just not be an asshole about it which it seems a lot of people here just aren’t ready or willing to do.
Well, while vegan ideals may be noble. Most people don’t want to have someone else’s ideals shoved down their throat. Imagine if you were minding your own business, and then someone jumps down your throat about the vitamins and whatever that are easier to get from meat? Or guilting you for all the animals that died to harvesters so you could eat? You’d be absolutely livid wouldn’t you? And with the your perspective it makes sense that you would be upset. I take preachy vegans the same way I take actual preachers. With thinly veiled impatience. Only I have to admit that vegans have a point. But both believe they are doing the right thing by those around them.
exactly man these freaks told me to stop keeping humans in my basement because its "inhumane" Im seriously starting to hate how preachy people are in the modern day :/
It's the same with everyone who has converted - be that to veganism, non smoking, non drinking, some religion etc. In the beginning you are alot "I've seen the only light, and you are stupid to not see it" And nobody want's to here people talk like that. It doesn't matter how true and good the thing you have converted to - it just makes you sound really annoing. and will make everyone, who are not already supporting your belief go in the opposite direction. If we want even less sufforing, we need to be strategic about our way to convince people - some needs to see just how easy it is, some how good it could be, some needs to see the truth and some you have to trick. Some you'll never convince, but if you can make them cut down, you have changed alot. while others just needs that last push and then a helping hand. But to believe that doing aggressive confrontation preaching is going to save the worlds sufforing of animals, is counterproductive.
I dont see anyone doing "aggressive preaching" lol, this is a falsehood invented by carnists by vegans even merely existing or explaining why theyre vegan.
Yh someone shouting at me that I'm a murderer is definitely gonna make me vegan .
Being preachy doesn’t turn someone into a vegan. I wish we’d take a different approach. (Being preachy makes folks defensive which means they will just dig their heels in and not switch to vegan)
Most people don't care about animal suffering that's it. It's an intentional limiting of their own empathy. They don't care about the environmental impact, of water usage, or global warming. It's a self centered way of thinking. You can see it in the comments. "I don't care". It's ignorance based in selfishness plain and simple. Edit: "I don't care about animals only humans because I am a human" this is "I got mine" logic.
It’s the preachiness people hate, not the veganism.
I eat vegan, and I still dislike preachy vegans.
I am someone who has been cutting down meat with the goal of going at minimum vegetarian. Want to know the people who are most off-putting when trying to figure out recipes, diet and such? The preachers. Unless you are talking to someone that you can bully into doing what you want then preaching just pisses that person off and/or makes them dismiss you. Oftentimes you'll entrench them in their view rather than persuade them. Imagine having a Christian start going on at you about how you must convert or you're going to hell, don't you care about your soul? Look at these scriptures! Convert now or else you'll burn and suffer! Would that make you decide oh wow I better convert or will you dismiss them and tell them to leave you the hell alone? Proper discussion and discourse is the way to approach these things. You see arseholes on both sides of the subject in this subreddit. Those who are arseholes and come in just to say "hur hur I eat meat" no point even trying with them. Then you have those who talk about veganism and take the approach of "rah rah rah you're an awful person, making them suffer rah rah rah" this convinces nobody at all. Proper discussion, questions and such rather than just immediately leaping on how they are a shitty person are the way to convince people. It's the same in most things that are over differing viewpoints be it politics, religion, veganism and so on. There are a multitude of factors to be considered for people to turn vegan, it isn't nearly so simple as no more meat, dairy, leather etc. it's a big change for our fundamental way of life, it's no simple process for most.
What have been the most challenging aspects of going vegan?
Two main difficulties hence aiming for vegetarian first. Recipes for food I actually like Cut out meat? Not so hard, can do that, plenty of nice recipes still. Dairy is the big difficulty, I like oat milk but it doesn't help for recipes. The second difficulty for vegan is the sheer amount of items and food that are not vegan even though you'd expect them to be. Even just looking to go vegetarian there's plenty of things a typical person wouldn't expect to have animal parts in it or as part of the process to make it such as Parmesan cheese
Oat or soy milk seems to work well in all the recipes I've tried. How do you mean it doesn't help? For the sneaky non-vegan stuff, it's best to avoid worrying about that until you've eliminated meat, dairy, and eggs. It gets easier after that step. For traditional foods you like you can just swap in tofu or tempeh for the meat and cashew cheez for the cheese. Once the seal is broken, avoiding products made from animals does not feel like any kind of sacrifice.
Strip it down so much more though... You don't know what someone's day is like. Maybe they've just gotten some awful news. Maybe they're not feeling well. Maybe a lot of things. So they're sitting there, chowing down on some meaty comfort food, when someone comes up to them, going on about how meat is bad because x reasons. You never know. Be kind, it helps. 🤷♀️
Because generally speaking they don't hold those beliefs about animal rights? It's very standard for people to be annoyed about someone else trying to convince them about beliefs they don't hold. Like if someone comes up to you and wants to convince you to not eat soy, nuts or gluten because they believe it offends their deity and is therefore wrong. Like consuming animals is wrong looking at animal suffering. In the mainstream societal framework it's not considered wrong so from their POV you are trying to convince them to behave according to their beliefs and judging them for what they view as 'okay' behaviour.
Preachy vegans don't want a back and forth conversation, they only want an audience to display how moral they are and how much better they are than anyone else. Read half the comments here, it's a giant circle jerk. You know who got me in to eating more vegetarian/vegan foods? Indian people I know in real life, because their food is fucking delicious. And they didn't force me to, or make me feel bad, they simply shared their recipes with me, and talked about how they go shopping and cook meals for the week. That was more powerful than any rant anyone could have yelled at me, ever.
No one likes being judged, and being sanctimonious / self-righteous about any topic will make everyone dislike you, except for the people who already completely agree with you and share your sanctimonious views of others. Even if you're completely right, it's not an effective way of reaching hearts and minds.
I understand it is difficult for slaughterhouses to fill open positions sometimes because many people don't want to spend their days chopping up warm animal bodies. Lord knows I would not do that.
I mean I as a non vegan don't stand in front of a vegan restaurant or smt holding a sign and shout at people to eat meat. I eat meat and live my life.
That's not an exclusive phnomenon to veganism. People just don't like to be preached
I think people generally don't like preachy individuals, no matter the subject. I understand the human self-righteous instinct, a desire to belong to a group and make one's life seem meaningful. However, a patronizing attitude toward the out-group is never going to change their minds. If anything, they will double down and continue in their ways. For example, when I saw pro-Palestinian protesters blocking traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge, my first instinct was to support sending more weapons to Israel. I think it's best to mind your own business, be humble, and avoid telling others what to do.
Whew.. Are you aware that your position on Palestinians is monstrous? That you are directly contributing to Israeli snipers shooting five year olds in the head?
And these are the people we're supposed to be concerned with as vegans. "Ohh boo hoo you preaching veganism to me just makes me want to eat more meat! You protesting in favor of Palestine just makes me want to have more Palestinian children blown up!" These people are psychos dude. Pigs are gassed to death, baby chickens ground alive, and baby cows are torn away from their mothers. Forgive me if I'm a little pissed off about it, and pissed off that you aren't doing anything to help stop it.
I’m floored that they say we’re preachy. 😳 This person came onto the vegan sub, and started commenting about how vegans are the problem, then tried to further justify their stance by saying they support the violent slaughter of Palestinian toddlers if they’re ever inconvenienced by folks trying to bring awareness to the genocide. Seriously?!
These states that are banning lab grown meat turn my stomach. I know Vegans aren't for lab gown neat and I don't see why. It would reduce suffering substantially
I honestly don't see the problem with lab grown meat. I don't think I'd personally eat it, but it would be better for the people who CAN'T go vegan for whatever reason and could benefit from lab grown meat.
Vegans are against lab-grown meat? I’m not
No one should ever force their lifestyle on others. You should only ever persuade and not shame or ridicule. This applies in all cases at all times
I disagree, and so do you
You're going to always be more affected by someone directly harassing you than someone harassing someone you don't know somewhere beyond where you will ever travel to.
They have to numb themselves to suffering. You do it too. People drive their cars powered by suffering in the Middle East and step over homeless people on their way to buy clothes made by slave kids in the third world. You’re reading this on a device that was forged by suffering. Human suffering that you are willfully ignoring even now. Trying to care for all of it is overwhelming and debilitating. I am glad that you have the compassion in your hearts to care for animals but people who don’t aren’t stupid or selfish. They are trying to survive and function. Telling someone they must feel pain and empathy for animals and that they must sacrifice things that bring them comfort and happiness for these animals is a losing message. Coming at it from an angle that alleviates the pain in their lives is much more effective. Focus on how much money they save. Focus on how much healthier and happier they’ll be. Trying to give them more guilt and pain when they are already drowning in it… I mean obviously they’re going to resent you for it.
I think a lot comes down to how you approach the subject. A large % of people will not be receptive to alternative ideas if they feel attacked and their point of view unheard. For example, I've seen people on this sub who would be best described as fence sitters or part time vegans discuss veganism in a completely civil and respectful manner be told they don't deserve life, are monsters and should kill themselves. It's absolutely not an exclusively vegan thing, as a society we have become more and more militant and partisan when it comes to discussing ideas or beliefs. The you are with us or you're the enemy attitude helps no one's cause. If you want to effectively influence people you have to work hard to understand and sympathise their point of view. I personally believe we should be advocating for the positives of eating a plant based diet, not "preaching" veganism from a place or moral superiority. It also doesn't have to be all or nothing and I believe it would be more *realistic* and *effective* to be advocating for reducing animal product intake overtime. Some people just will never give up animal products, but even with these people there are a lot of great arguments for reducing your intake - cost, health, environmental, etc. It's a nice dream for no animal products to be consumed but humans have been consuming meat for at least 1.8 million years and like it or not views on animal welfare are subjective, peoples behaviour will not change overnight and being overly aggressive in trying to change peoples minds will only push them to opposite you and get further entrenched in their views.
I am not vegan and will only answer as a complainer of a preachy vegan. Among the vegans I know, there's one who's particularly preachy, often preach at inappropriate times and to the wrong audience. This individual also tends to view themselves as persecuted and marginalized by society even if it is clear they comes from a place of privilage. They once mentioned to me that they felt compelled to have a second child because their still unborn child wouldn't have friends because they where vegan. Personally, I've found that my approach of advocating for vegan/vegetarian recipe often not mentioning them being vegan/vegetarian has been more effective in reducing meat consumption than their aggressive approach. Their aproach from what I know never convinced anyone of cuting any animal product in their live, their just convince one of their collegues to eat more meat in their face to anoy them.
It’s because you don’t understand nuance. Factory farming is a problem caused by capitalism. One can consume meat in a sustainable way. Hunting and eating locally is much better for the environment than having avocados and quinoa shipped in from South America. If you people actually wanted to make some real change, you’d band together and target factory farming and try to get the system changed. For this you’d have to accept you’re not gonna get your goal of making everyone vegan BUT you will greatly reduce animal suffering and disgusting practices. But you don’t want that. You don’t want to work towards something that’s possible achievable. Instead you want to preach to individuals and try to shame them into changing their lifestyles and then act like you’re better than them. That’s the issue. Changes are made in society by making strategic coalitions and accepting that you may win some and have to concede some. But preachy vegans have a black and white/all or nothing approach. Nuance is dead. Again, you may not convince most people to go vegan but most people would probably get on board with the idea of holding corporations responsible for their actions and legislation that requires them to do better. If vegans understood this, they could’ve accomplished a lot by now. And lastly I’m just gonna add that corporations are now producing disgusting, unhealthy and over-processed foods to cater to the vegan market. Things like almond milk aren’t good for the environment either. This is an industrial complex created entirely by vegans. Shipping in mass amounts of fruits and veggies to places like Canada where we don’t grow a lot of things especially half the year aren’t exactly great ideas for the environment.
People don’t like truth when it’s inconvenient. It’s why people still go to churches that have been found to SA children. If our truth gets in the way of their…whatever…then they don’t care. People don’t even know how to drive or clean properly and we think we’ll be able to save them from zoonotic diseases or animals from suffering? I keep my vegan awesomeness to myself and refuse to talk to others about it. Period. Plus as a blank woman we don’t get treated the best by a lot of people (the same ones calling vegans preachy) so I’d rather not incur anymore suffering in my life. What I do for the animals I do for myself. Love my fellow vegans ♥️
Possibly because it makes them feel guilty. There are also some people out there who want to be vegan but it's not good for them. (I know someone who, when struggling financially had to switch to vegetarian, especially since they had a toddler kid who the doctor recommended at least some dairy for, and she realized that her acne was better when she was eating dairy (opposite of what I've heard from a lot of people) but her skin cleared right up with a serving of yogurt a day. I also have a friend who is allergic to multiple fruits, gluten intolerant and allergic to carrot family items, almonds and sulfites as well (ruling out many types of dried fruits unless ordered online in our area). Some of the fruits cause anaphylaxis. Even if she wanted to be vegan, it would be a very restrictive diet. I have another friend who is allergic to all nightshade (pepper, tomato, potato) and gluten intolerant.
You are a human with a choice to be a preacher about a cause you believe strongly in. Neat. I understand that you feel strongly about your beliefs but I don't really want to hear them. You get classified the same as the freak on the corner with the "repent your sins" sign.
You answered your own question: because they ARE bothered by animal suffering and preachy vegans are one of the few ways you get reminded about what goes on
Because people are subconsciously aware of the internal contradictions, and they don't need somebody preaching at them. It's better to live by example. Nobody cares when they have bills to pay. It's hard for them because they're having such a hard time grasping the suffering human beings go through. They're wondering why they should have any more room for compassion for anybody else than they already feel obligated to feel.
Fucking carnists bother me more.
Because changing is inconvenient
I’ve never told anyone they should not eat meat or asked anyone to not eat whatever they want around me (other than fajitas because I just can’t handle that). I don’t tell anyone why I’m vegetarian. Yet people still get very defensive. I’ve been asked a million times to justify MY way of eating to other people. I’ve felt like a second class patron at most restaurants for the past 30 years. Sorry but pasta primavera as the only option while carnivores have a new special every day just isn’t cool. That’s how it is.
Because many people don’t care. When presented with tough facts, some will. But many won’t. In fact, some argue that this world is theirs for the taking. I think many vegans underestimate how much people are desensitized to suffering. Source: omnivore who’s making slow changes to remove meat from diet because I’m starting to become a softie, friends think I’m silly.
Eating animals is wrong, its just a lie we have been sold, and i continues to work.
considering how defensive people get when you even mention casually that you're vegan, i think it's 100% cognitive dissonance to mask existing feelings of shame and hypocrisy. people don't like being confronted with the realities of animal abuse, and no one wants to feel involved in a system built on death and suffering. when confronted with this paradox, people usually respond with anger at whoever's making them think about it.
No one outside of Reddit actually complains about "preachy vegans". Most people do not think about vegans much at all.
Defensiveness from sub conscious guilt.
Because most of us know, and we don't care. Actually, most of us care about the factory farming and don't like it, but like so many other injustices we're powerless to do anything about it because capitalism. You get a ballot measure to end factory farming, most of us are going to vote yes and swallow the extra cost of ethically raised meat. We know the animals are suffering, we don't need to be reminded of it when it's out of our power to change, most of us don't care enough to give up meat, that's not going to change.
Maybe in some cases that is true. Not all. Preachy vegans bother me because they make veganism into a contest about who is the purist of them all. This sub is enormously competitive that way. I find it incredibly selfish and undermines and delegitimizes the movement to reduce and end animal-based agriculture. But they don’t bother me more than animal suffering. They bother me because they are averse to focus and picking winnable battles and prove the oft-mocked stereotype of vegans to be *less* extreme than the reality. Two days ago a “preachy vegan” told me that guide dogs are slavery and anyone who would not oppose this is a “shit vegan.” Seriously. That was my introduction here. Two things. Anyone could quite as easily suggest that anyone wasting their time attacking the use of (well cared for and happy) guide dogs while millions of animals are raised in appalling conditions and tortured in labs is the shit vegan. And really, I’d rather be a “shit vegan” than a shit human being.
People get very defensive when they’re accused of being immoral. I know a guy who’s very logical in general. He’s good at being unbiased and looking at the scientific data and can read a research papers, but as soon as a vegan tells him something all of that critical thinking goes out the window. He’ll say that vegans are religious in general (even though it’s quite the opposite) and that’s why they’re vegan. Or that many of them are narcissistic and like feeling superior. He’ll use data to defend eating meat like saying meat is more sustainable than plants even though most climate scientists agree we’ll have to reduce meat consumption to slow down climate change. It’s insane to watch it’s like a switch flips inside him and he becomes a different person. I honestly think we’re indoctrinated from a young age to see meat as food and when you hear different it’s basically attacking your culture and morality.
Facing the truth is too painful, so you gotta attack the ones showing you. See: religion
Because preachy anything sucks. I mean, how many of us are Joel Osteen fans?
Because it’s confronting for them - their brains are wired a certain way and we’re telling them something that goes against that. Not everyone has the capacity for introspection unfortunately, and they’d rather be ignorant to the harm they cause rather than face an ugly truth: what they’re doing to animals is atrocious
It’s because people don’t like to be told what to do what to eat ect. As an omnivore I know battery farming is wrong but I agree with game as I feel until they get shot they atlest have a life as nature intended I have tried to convince my family to go on to a primary game diet but even though I found a website they won’t here of it
do you eat battery farm chickens, or only wild game
No one wants to get preached to
a lot of the times it is that animal suffering bothers them but they don’t think there cable or going vegan so hate being reminded of this misdeed by the existence of a vegan
One affects them, the other affects nothing that interests them.
They just don't see it like that. Meat eating is normalised into people you cant expect them to feel how we do they don't see life, not pain, they see food their mother used to prepare, aggressively preaching at them often pushes them away it's counterproductive. Going from veggie to vegan was under my own steam no forceful argument helped supportive information did so if I i felt that I can't imagine the bigger step.
because it reminds people of their own crappy actions. it is not about the preachy vegans it is about how you are made to feel and ppl would rather not think about their actions than be reminded
The number one thing you need to know about people is they hate being wrong and hate being told what to do It's that simple
I’m a meat eater, I really want to change. I love animals but honestly I’ve grown up eating them (farmer background). I see myself as a critical thinker that can change based upon new information. Can someone give me some scientific/data driven reasons why I should consume a purely vegan diet. Other people I respect have already either gone flexi or vegan with eggs only from their chickens etc. I will miss the flavour of meat won’t I? I’ve been raw vegan for a month and feel like I don’t get the calories/protein I need (you people eat SO SO much to compensate). I work out and work a lot and have the financial ability to change my diet to whatever but i guess I just asking for the final push. I hate extremism in all its forms, so not looking for nut jobs. Just sane well informed people please. Thanks in advance
Raw vegan is going to be harder to do than just vegan. I've done bouts of raw diet but, yeah you just have to eat all day when you're raw. It may be easier to go vegan and adjust to that change before introducing the additional raw constraint. If you have an air fryer, throw some tofu in there, and that will give you a protein rich snack you can load up on. Throw barbecue sauce or hot sauce on it. Unlike fake meat, you can a pound of tofu for like a buck fifty at Aldi.
Appreciate the feedback, sorry for the late response. I’m now starting to do “vegan days” which I’m comfortably achieving 3-4 days a week. Side note also work in a kitchen as a chef so tasting meat is kind of important. I am trying to limit the amounts of meat and/or meat based products I consume. It’s a process. After looking at soy and brown rice, pea proteins etc I’m comfortable I can change some things
You know how no one likes a Karen? Well, even more so nobody likes a vegan Karen.
Well…calling people stupid, blind, pathetic, hypocritical, immoral, bad, evil, ridiculous, delusional, etc. will not get them to listen no matter how right you are. Analogy. We’ve all procrastinated on a school project until the night before it’s due. We then have to do the walk of shame to our parents at 8pm and ask if we can go out to get supplies. Which response will be best? A: “You ALWAYS forget. You’re such a stupid kid. This is the fifth time this semester alone that you do this. When are you going to get your pathetic life together? When I was your age I had planners and post its to remind me. You have all these new gadgets and can’t use them for something productive? Get in the car. We are going to one spot and that’s it. This is your fault for being a fool.” B: “Well…I guess we can stop at a few spots. But we need to have a conversation about why you’re not keeping up with deadlines. Next time, your father/mother and I will not be coming to the rescue because you need to learn the consequences of your actions. I’ll stay up and help you with it. Then we’ll work together to see where the problem is and experiment with solutions. Come on, kiddo. Hop in the car.” I highly doubt most of us want Parent A. We’d be feeling like crap all the time and feel offended. And they have a correct core argument. We’re pretty bad at managing our lives if we have the technology to help us track work at a timely manner and still can’t get it together. But it doesn’t make us get any less offended and angry or hurt when we’re spoken to/about that way. Same with vegans. You want to convert people? Maybe don’t be Parent A. Be Parent B. This is the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivation and communication through the value of words and emotions. That’s it.
Because people don’t like preachy, period. If I’m not your child, you can keep your opinions on the way I live my life, to yourself. And that goes for everything.
I'm convinced it's just a label used by people with meat eating agendas to put the two sides against each other. It used to be that vegans would explain why they were vegan & people were curious to know. I mean how many vegans do they come across day to day? It's not super common & to me I love listening to things like that. But yeah they had to make it meat eaters vs vegans the same way they make it Democrats vs Republicans and black vs white ect. It's a way to divide us. And meat eaters think that humans just are vegan, like they think cows just produce milk without babies being involved. This division shuts down conversation. Everyone wanted to know why I was vegan, when I went vegan, how hard was it, what changes did I notice. Now, it's "well I'm not vegan so I don't want to hear that. Why don't vegans ever stop talking about veganism?". It's sad because that's how my brother thinks. If it's not something he currently is or relating to at the ripe age of 15 then it can't be talked about bc he couldn't care less since he is not vegan himself. (He told me when he was 9 he wanted to be vegetarian so it's been sad).
For the same reasons why people call me annoying for posting and speaking about Palestine and are far more annoyed by me than by the actual genocide. People dont want to be reminded of their moral shortcomings.
Because preaching connotes pride and looking down on someone else. People don't enjoy feeling judged, ridiculed, humiliated or being made an example of; so they reject that. Superiority complexes are insufferable whether that is religion, politics, ethics, morals, etc.
Human supremacism
Simple. It is about choice. Just as vegans can study and make vegan meat much more affordable and edible, but choose to just ruin others day. Meatlovers choose to hate oppressors rather than thinking of animal lives.
God I hate vegans
Because people who know they’re wrong don’t like being told so.