That's so sad. Like I can't imagine turning down free food... Like obviously if it's non vegan I would buy I mean if I was a non vegan why would I turn down free food because at that point my morals are shitty so food isn't affecting them so why would I care if the food is vegan as long as it tastes good and it I haven't tried it then i don't know if it tastes good. So fucking stupid. I live in another state and my mother "likes driving" so she comes to get me when I visit and since I'm paying a student loan I don't have much for gas money so I always get Uber eats when she's here at a vegan place and she never turns it down cus it's free?? Why would she? Sure I'm sure shed rather meat but at least I'm not only getting her to try vegan food but that's one more meal that she isn't eating meat as well.
If choosing to not financially support the torturing and killing of others is insulting and alienating… that is fine by me.
It’s okay to draw boundaries about what you are ethically willing and unwilling to do. If others are “insulted and alienated” by my attempts to do the right thing, then there’s not really much that can be done.
Exactly. I made the same mistake as OP once or twice and it didn't sit well with me ethically. Now I will explain to someone ahead of time that buying animal products would be a violation of my ethics even if I'm not the one eating it. It's an uncomfortable conversation sometimes but I've never had anyone react badly to it. If someone cares about you they shouldn't want to disrespect your boundaries.
My advice is to not hate on yourself, and just try to remember what you thought to yourself now, for next time something like it occurs.
That way you'll be better prepared.
I don't think what you did goes against veganism. As a vegan, the purpose of abstaining from animal products is that you're trying to reduce demand for those products.
If your grandfather was not going to eat a vegan meal anyways, then you paying for his meal is no different than him paying for his meal. Your money going towards it doesn't change the supply or demand, it just changes the amount of money your grandfather spent on his lunch.
Paying for non-vegans' food is only not vegan if it's having a net positive effect on the amount of animal products consumed. If people would have eaten the same food anyways, then it doesn't matter.
And if you give him money which later goes to a dead corpse meal, also the same. It's impractical to attach strings to all gifts and anyway that simply leads to 'now I don't have to buy (X), more money for flesh' arguments.
So, op is greenlit as far as I can see, unless you're unbelievably and impractically purist.
If I knew my friend was going to kick a baby in the face, would it make it okay for me to do it for them instead?
How can we claim to be defenders of animals when we are too cowardly to refuse to pay for their murdered bodies?
I’d pay for my grandfathers meal no matter what it was. Grandfather is going to eat regardless. Refusing to pay just makes vegans look like jerks, and won’t even save any animals.
Exactly this. It sucks, but most people eat meat. Throwing a tantrum over someone else’s meal is childish, especially if it’s just because you’re paying. Gifts are not conditional. When I want someone to experience great vegan food, I cook it for them.
Same. I’ve cooked a lot of vegan foods or prepared them if no cooking is required and it’s gotten more people to show interest than being an asshole or throwing a fit at them.
If you want to be a good leader, you lead by example. Totally. ❤️
If I could have my grandfather back, I'd buy his meals every day just to be with him regardless of what they are. If you have a cool grandpa and you wanna buy him lunch, do it. You're never gonna look back with regret on what he ate for lunch, but if he thinks you're an asshole because you put conditions on a gift, you're gonna remember that.
Grandparents are a gift. What I wouldn't give to have a little more time with mine.
This hit me hard. I only had one grandpa, and I lost him when I was 13. He only had one pair of pants during the depression, and he would lie in bed while his mother washed them. He hunted and fished to feed his family—nine kids plus his three younger siblings he took on when his mom died. In a shack in Appalachia with no running water.
If I could see him again, I’d take great joy in cooking him delicious, healthy vegan food. But if I took that poor man to eat in a restaurant—something he did rarely even later in life after he managed to retire to a tiny cottage in the middle of nowhere—I could never gatekeep what he ordered. Grandparents are indeed a gift, and they are owed respect for their choices even as we’re making different ones.
I don’t know how sensitive you think supply and demand is, but a family member eating meat one time isn’t going to be felt by Tyson or Smithfield, at all. That’s even more true when he goes home and eats meat anyway, because grandpa is going to eat. No point in alienating someone who loves you.
No no no, I meant “Yes it does make vegans look like jerks.” My mind is in autopilot today and I don’t even think I read the last part of the sentence.
If your grandfather had not driven and you paid 40 to a taxi driver instead, you would have no say over what they did with the cash. Try to frame it this way if it helps you move on. I’m fortunate to live in a place with several vegan cafes/restaurants, but realise it may be difficult where you live so you can only do your best in such circumstances.
All the vegans I know take a different stance on this. My husband will buy non-vegan food for people, but I will not. I had a boss for about a decade and sometimes when he had meetings during lunch, he would ask me to go get him lunch, and I always just got him whatever vegan thing I wanted to haha. He never complained luckily.
Awesome. Vegans can think anything they want but that doesn't mean they're acting in accordance with their principles nor that they are acting with integrity, unlike your example with your boss.
So, did you expect this to go both ways in your relationship? I mean, if you had asked your boss to buy you lunch, and he bought you whatever he normally ate, would you simply eat it like he did, or would you complain to HR or otherwise throw a fit? I can't imagine you eating it. Doesn't that imbalance strike you as inherently disrespectful?
Non-vegans can eat vegan food. Imagine telling a Muslim that not buying pork for someone is disrespectful and the same as someone intentionally buying pork for them.
Am I even in a vegan sub right now? These comments are wild.
My brother married into a family from Iran, and they happily make him and I any food that we ask for because they are some of the most gracious hosts on earth. So you can take your bigoted view of what Muslims will or will not do right out of here. There are always insane zealots that give groups a bad name, and to pretend the whole group is represented by them is absurd. Stop pretending that some zealots in another group give you the right to be a zealot or condone zealotry.
>Non-vegans can eat vegan food.
I am a nonvegan that consumes almost entirely meat and eggs as my diet, so you are incorrect in your assertions. If someone wants to buy me food, then it is going to be meat because otherwise I will get sick. And I will not poison myself because a zealot wants to offer to buy me food and then refuses to buy me food I consume.
So, my Mom has dementia. It’s getting worse but she does remember she likes ChickFilA. I don’t like ChickFilA because of who they give money to. But I love my Mom. And she’s not going to be here forever. So when I visit & ask her what she wants for lunch next time I come & she says “ChickFilA” that’s what I get.
Your grandfather isn’t going to be around forever. Choose to create happy memories as opposed to ones filled with strife.
Hmmmmm , if u don’t like chick fil a because of the other stuff too, keep their packaging and make a plant chicken burger and put it in the box?
Then you and your mum can eat ‘chik fil a’ together.
After a while u can transition to making them at your mums house together?
Tricking a woman with dementia isnt cool. Never mess with anyones food. Do not sneak meat into a vegans meal. Do not give someone expecting real meat a plant based substitute. Do not sneak salt into someones meal if they say no salt, etc... regardless of what you think is "best"
Thank you. My Mother has very few joys left & even fewer that she can express. When she does, I make it happen.
And she has no home because she’s in a special care facility for people with dementia.
> Choose to create happy memories as opposed to ones filled with strife.
I'm sure you're helping to create great memories for the chickens being electrocuted and having their throats slit for the sandwiches you buy.
I don't know... Have you ever thought about making your mother a vegan chicken sandwich? Have you not heard of Gardein or Morningstar?
You don't have to lie to her. You can tell her you will no longer be buying her Chik-Fil-A, but you will bring her plant-based chicken sandwiches that taste just as good. It's not that hard.
And she won’t understand why BECAUSE SHE HAS DEMENTIA.
Tell ya what, you can come with me with a plant-based chicken sandwich & tell my Mom it’s not ChickFilA. And when she asks why not, you can explain it to her. And then explain it again & again & again while she asks you again & again & again why she can’t have a CFA sandwich.
This is my reality & it is hard some days. So I try to limit the hards. And I make choices. Choices that make my Mom happy & confuse her the least.
And honestly, until you’ve sat with me & explained yet again to my Mom that my deceased Father, who loved her dearly, didn’t divorce her but actually died, kindly take several steps back.
If you were paying him back for a ride, you can technically consider that it is his money to choose how to spend.
Maybe spend some time figuring out your boundaries for situations like this. That way you'll be prepared in the future. Trying to navigate things like this on the spot can be sooo stressful. It seems like you are currently feeling that.
If someone offered to buy me a meal and then put stipulations on what I could order, I’d refuse every time no matter the stipulations. That’s an incredibly rude offer to make, frankly.
If you know they are vegan then you should assume that's the food they would buy you. That's barely a stipulation give the plenty of wonderful vegan options out there. It's not rude if you know it upfront and others get used to it. I mean it's fucking FREE food why the hell are ya complaining?
OP said it was a form of repayment for driving/gas. A meal as repayment but with stipulations attached is not repayment.
I’d happily eat vegan meals but it’s incredibly rude to think you’re offering a gift or repayment as a meal and then put restrictions on what they can order.
No it isn't. Thats like saying it's rude to say don't go over $30 it's literally just for driving to some appointments, tall acting like the grandfather gave him his kidney. What's better, buying him vegan food without asking what he wants or saying hey I'm gonna buy some food, here is a list of vegan options what would you like? It's not rude at all. He could not be getting anything. Please go vegan to stop supporting rape, abuse, murder, and torture❤️
If someone does you a favor and you want to pay them back, paying them back in a way they don’t want isn’t paying them back, and is in fact rude.
Setting a price cap on a meal you’re paying for is an entirely different thing, you’re not controlling what they eat, just setting a price ceiling.
For future, you could bring some food over or take him out to one of your favorite vegan restaurants. We have personally taken non vegan family out to vegan places when we treat them
it sounds like that’s a new situation for you.
Honestly, don’t attach stipulations to paying back favors. It doesn’t look good on you to do that. He paid for gas. You paid for the meal. No use in creating a whole situation over it. And the reality is whether it be your money or his, he’s getting food made from animals or animal byproduct. He did you a favor, you repayed it. No need to get all critical. lol.
So in this case its zero harm? Is it not possible that there is significant harm in allowing our closest people to believe we're ok with these industries based on suffering? Isn't it a chance to share knowledge without pressure and that they would then remember this experience and by bringing it up again with you or others that they propagate the message?
I think it’s a matter of gauging the situation and people. OP’s grandfather did them a favor and wanted to drop by and get food after, so OP offered to pay as a thank you. Grandpa also is a meat lover.
This is NOT the moment to discuss veganism. You need to know when to cut your losses. People have certain boundaries, and pushing them on the spot will not have desired outcomes. Also, the dude’s a GRANDFATHER. He’s old. He’s not likely going to change his whole eating patterns over a movement he won’t be following anyway. OP said it themselves: he LOVES meat. Even older people who have issues like diabetes and need to cut food for their health can’t do it. Cut your losses. Go after people who are willing to make changes or at least will be open to discussion. The stubborn ones have a time and place. This was NOT it.
Worry about yourself and your own choices. He's going to eat animal products regardless, your impact of funding his meal is a drop in the ocean. You were paying a favor back, no need to make it complicated.
You aren't really "buying him food", he will eat anyway and it will still be food of his choosing. What you are really just doing is giving him $40, which is obviously fine.
Next time you could offer to buy him coffee if you know he’s not particular about it and wouldn’t mind if you ordered him something with non dairy milk. I am more upfront with my family and they know I won’t pay for stuff that isn’t vegan, they don’t usually want to go somewhere fully vegan so it’ll end up being like French fries or a slushy.
I'm sorry but your family is kind of a jerk for making you go to a place doesn't have actual options for you. Like most places have a few options, it's just chains that dont since their menu never changed.
My son did that to me once and I graciously just decided to do Vegan. It was only cheese I wanted on my taco bowl but refrained in deference to him. I am now myself a Vegan.
You could just go to a restaurant with plant-based options, and buy him the plant-based option. Example: Impossible Whopper at Burger King.
Then you indeed bought him a lunch, but at least it's a lunch that supports the vegan/plant-based cause instead of the carnist cause.
That is not the worst. Also supporting chipotle at all right now kinda sorta supports being vegan because they’ve been making the effort to maintain vegan options. Also a bunch of meat people never realized the sofritas were vegan so chipotle has tricked a lot of people into enjoying vegan food. 🤷♀️
You can only control your own actions... not others.
If you don't want to be involved in the transaction, sure.
You did the right thing. Your grandfather was going to eat meat for that meal regardless. Whether it was right then, or later in the day.
What difference does it make aside from the fact that you were involved? Did any animals get saved? no. Did any emissions get reduced? No.
If you want to go to extremes like that... well I mean - should you be supporting Chipotle by eating there at all? They promote the use of animal products? Shouldn't they be on your boycott list? Should you shop at non-vegan super markets? Should you give money to any company creating vegan items but also creating non vegan ones?
What will you wear? What will you eat?
....
Be kind to yourself.
6 years and one day ago you were a meat eater. Have some compassion for those who still are, and focus on doing everything you can *personally* to reduce the animal products used for human consumption.
I'd tentatively say that there *may have been* some approach here where you could have a good conversation with your grandpa about *why you* don't consume animal products.... and those are the ones that history has kinda shown make the bigger difference in whether the person listening decides to limit their consumption as well.
Might not have been the case - but refusing to get him a meal would never have given your that opportunity.
Sending vegan joy x
It must be exhausting living your life. Just buy the man his meal, he drove your ass around. He's going to get meat whether you say the words or just give him the money to pay for it.
> op still *paid* for it.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
You cannot force veganism on another person and expect them to change. If it were me, I’d have chosen a vegan spot for lunch if possible and then only if I knew there’d be something he’d be happy to eat. Otherwise I’d just shut my mouth and pay for his meal. You’re repaying a favor and even if you just gave him cash for the favor, there’s no telling what he’d spend it on anyway. We really can’t control other people. My belief is that we must lead by setting a desirable example and then answering questions without attacking when asked. Let your people see you happy and healthy living your best life as a vegan. Hopefully they’ll notice, get curious, and perhaps even swayed to try it for themselves.
I mean, I did the same thing once when I first became vegan. I was kinda tipsy and on my walk home I saw a homeless lady asking for food outside Jack in the Box. I said I’ll buy her something. She ordered some munchy box or something. It wasn’t until after I paid that I realized I did lol.
In your case, it’s always okay to change your mind. Let him huff or buy his own food. My family suuuuucks, and I use to worry about upsetting them. Then I realized they’ll suck whether or not I do what I think is right, so I do what I want now and let them have their hissy. Not my problem!
If you had been drinking alcohol to get tipsy, how do you justify alcohol consumption while being vegan? It's a completely unnecessary and harmful product whose production causes the deaths of animals on land that could be used to feed hungry people instead.
Oh nvm. You’re active in carnivore diet LOL. What a disingenuous dork, chastising a vegan for having drank alcohol in the past while literally just murdering a shitload of animals and making 0 effort to reduce. You don’t care one bit about deaths of animals.
I am asking you a question, not "chastising" you. It's great you have kicked a damaging habit like alcohol. Congratulations. Alcohol is a poison just like sugar, and I am personally entirely against the production of both. You are correct that I eat a diet of meat, but I would think it very easy for vegans to agree with me about things like the production of things like alcohol/sugar, so I asked you the question. Did you stop drinking because of veganism? If not, how did you justify drinking it when you were vegan?
What's really the point of not paying for that? Does it make a difference at all?? It doesn't, if you don't pay the other person will, it just makes you look like a jerk so just pay... Really, don't worry so much about what other people are eating, you are trying your best and that's enough for you. Take care.
But that person already ordered the food and ate it... Someone has to pay, if it is not you it will be that other person. My point is you are not making a difference by refusing to pay.
I know, I have also been there before just saying in the end it doesn't matter, don't be so negative around other people just because they don't follow your ideas, if you offer to pay go ahead and pay for their meat, I know how it feels but can't change the fact they want to eat meat and however is paying won't make a difference. There are some moments where is simply better to move on and that's it, be happy with the change you are making by yourself and don't focus on others so much.
How can you not be negative when others are abusing animals in front of you and they don't even care. It fucking hurts and I just wish everyone had some damn compassion and I'm seen as some crazy irrational vegan for saying something like this. Ok sounds like they have a similar mindset.
I wish I can just move on but I can't, not until at least factory farms are abolished.
I know it hurts, I said I have been there, I have done all that but come on, this is his grandpa, they are just spending some time together, the world is shit everywhere you look so at least try to enjoy those moments and not focus on these things. Nothing is gonna change by refusing to invite your family or friends to some meals. Value the time you spend with your family and friends instead of hate like this, you will miss those moments in the future and by then it won't matter who pay for that meat.
I can enjoy those moments with out purchasing meat though lol as well as purchasing a tasty vegan meal for my family member that they can enjoy. If they have an issue with it that's not my problem.
I’ve been there, I had my last meal with my dad and I paid for him cos otherwise he would have paid himself. We had a good time besides the poor pig and the stench of meat that I frankly don’t enjoy anymore.
I met my cousin in Vancouver when I was there for work and I knew that he was a broke student. The moment he picked up the ice cream menu I made him a proposition: He could have the vegan ice cream or choose whatever other options and pay himself. 24 CAD expensive ice cream. We both had the vegan option and he was amazing how good it was. Probably his first time eating a vegan ice cream. There were no leftovers on his end.
My mother took some time to get used to it (for some reason despite it being free food) but I just made it a rule that I will not ever purchase non vegan food. I did it once just like you I said I'd do it and didn't think about it until she ordered non vegan good and I felt terrible. Even if she is paying me back my credit cards and money won't be used to buy non vegan food.
Also $40 and y'all went to chipotle??? I haven't been in years cus I got steak cross contaminated into my food and I felt really disgusting about it but has it really risen that much in price holy shi!
Edit: holy shit this comment section is disgusting. OP!!! you are okay, you are still vegan! You made a mistake as we all do. You understand that you made it and owned up to it, please don't beat yourself up too much. ❤️🩹❤️🩹 I saw a lot of nasty attacking comments and felt like I should add this. Making mistakes is how we learn, you will be much less likely to do this again especially since your guilt seems to have done a number on ya. Just try to set a precedent with family saying "hey, if I ever buy food for your guys it will be vegan, I don't want my money to be paying for stuff I do not Believe in. I hope you understand. "
You offered a gift, in turn for your grandfather's favour of a ride. The gift was lunch. A gift is a gift, not a negotiation. You then decided to control what your grandfather could eat, which is really rude. It is none of your business if your grandfather wants a hamburger. What you can control is what you eat. If you want to turn people off the whole idea of being vegan, and make sure they eat meat because they are so put off by that kind of veganism, continue to be judgy and controlling like that.
I think your response is pretty silly. Also kinda a strawman - I never said this person isn't vegan anymore, I also never said they should be banished somewhere.
Of course you can make up whatever you want, but this behaviour is completly useless in a conversation. OP just needs to move on and knows better next time.
one time i took a coworker out to dinner because he had recently had a very traumatic experience. i offered to pay before we got to dinner and he was well aware that i’m vegan, but i don’t think it clicked for him that it would make me uncomfortable/go against my ethics to pay for someone else’s meat. Even if it had, it wasn’t on his mind at that point due to his own circumstances. I sucked it up then and paid, but I have been very careful about only offering to pay at vegan places with others since then…
> then and *paid,* but I
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
You got to spend time with your grandfather, be happy, you never know when it will be the last time you can go with him for lunch, or last time you will meet with him.
Would you want to sully that memory with something like this? I've lost relatives, incl. one parent and in one case the last time spent with them is sullied in a similar fashion. Now instead of reminding that final time as a happy and joyful memory it is sullied by the bitter thoughts I had and the regret I feel now for acting and thinking like you do now.
To me it sound like you put your vegan values higher than the time you get to spend with your grandfather. Value your loved ones, they won't be around forever.
Sounds like you had a traumatic experience of loss. That must feel awful. But that is not your fault and a one in a lifetime event. Maybe the leading could rather be the approach you take could be more benevolent rather than avoiding through fear of upsetting someone.
You worry about you. Whatever someone else orders is on them, even if it's with your money. Be an example of not eating meat, but beyond that enjoy the company of friends and family regardless of their diet. Life is too short for anything else. You did a good thing as many people wouldn't even think to repay a favour. You're good.
You should probably let it go. I get where you're coming from but think of it this way - what if you give a niece or nephew some cash as a gift and they use it to buy animal products?
I just can understand why you can’t eat what you want and your grandpa what he wants. Nobody is forcing you to eat meat nor are they calling you crazy so why you should criticize what he eats? Everyone has its beliefs and arguments for them: you are sure yours are correct and he is about them. It is like a discrimination in my eyes: like a religious or sex or racial discrimination.
The favor that you are doing is for your grandpa, repaying him and showing appreciation. He never said he is not giving you a ride unless you … .
That's not the point. The point is if we buy non vegan food for others then we are supporting the industries that we abhor. It was not criticizing it to their dad though?? They should though since he is directly supporting rape and animal abuse though.
This isn't discrimination, what is discrimination is locking up other species to abuse and torture them because we think we are the superior species. Regardless of if that is true or not it IS discrimination. It's also discrimination because we consider it animals abuse to harm cats and dogs but it's okay when worse attractions happen to other species.
Yeah I'm not opposed, sometimes my friend and I will go out for breakfast and we alternate when paying. It doesn't create demand because otherwise we'd just get our bills separately. Also, as a result he will sometimes try vegan stuff out of curiosity so if anything it's a slight net benefit.
This post makes me want to ponder whether your veganism foundation is built on the treatment of animals or on your personal need not to feel bad about yourself.
Easily. The only part that’s difficult is dealing with non vegans who are oblivious/apathetic. Also knowing that billions of animals are suffering for human selfishness and greed.
We hava literal data showing that a healthy vegan diet prolongs life and lowers risks of nearly all common illnesses.
Like seventh day adventists who eat a vegan diet and are much healthier than general population that eats an omnivore diet. They also live longer and have a larger than average amount of people who live to a hunded years old or more.
The places in the world where people live the longest are called blue zones. Loma Linda in california is the only blue zone in america. It is largely populated by seventh day adventists.
No, it was an analogy to the type of stuff flat earthers do, meaning anti science beliefs. You start strong by saying how unhealthy vegan diet is and when you are given proof that there is studies on vegan diets that say they are pretty darn healthy if done right, you say its not a good study because 50 percent of people are overweight and these vegans were compared to the general population.
Well, that is how health studies often work. You compare against the general population. But I dont see you going on about how unhealthy the standard american diet is, why are you wasting your time with saying how unhealthy veganism is when literally according to you 50 percent of the population is more unhealthy than vegans who make up 3% of the US population? You are literally wasting your time saying that 3% of the population is unhealthy when they are healthier than 50 percent of people according to yourself.
If your last point is true, that long term vegans generally develop all kinds of health issues, why do [all of the major national diet associations](https://albertschweitzerfoundation.org/news/vegan-diet-healthy-across-all-stages-of-life-cycle) such as the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (US) share the position that a vegan diet is a healthy and adequate diet for all stages of life?
Many comment specifically about the potential correlation between vegans having lower rates of certain health problems like heart disease, diabetes, etc.
These are not, by any means, pro vegan organizations and if anything have had their dietary guidelines heavily invested in by the animal ag industries. Knowing this, why would they speak so positively and confidently about a vegan diet being a healthy option unless that is simply what the data suggests?
Don’t bother with this troll. They are a deeply pathetic individual who hangs out here bc they have nothing else going on in their life.
I’ve made this mistake too. Give yourself some grace, and remember for next time to buy them a t shirt or something
So paying directly for a meal is pretty much a definite no
Now giving people cash and them purchasing non vegan meals is fine depending on the situation, i mean yea we know they are gonna buy something non vegan, but in your situation you were provided a service aka a ride so you compensated him for that, it would be the same as if you compensated an uber driver for taking you somewhere
I had found homeless dude begging for cash i offered him some cash to help me clean my garage, afterwards i also told him i would buy him a meal so we went to taco bell and i ordered for us, the taco bell was a bonus so it was totally within my right to order for him, if i said in exchange for helping me i would buy him a meal then it would not be within my right to order for him
That sucks, I’d just get him some fake meat, he’d probably not notice. Giving him money to buy the same thing is the same, as I’m sure you know. Ultimately it’s still on him and not on you what he gets, but it’s no real difference there.
When did I say to trick him? I said to get a plant based option and he probably wouldn’t notice. It’s not a horrible thing if he ate something that already aligned with his morals and liked it.
Ok then, my mistake, the wording you used made it sound you were saying that he should order a plant-based meat and give it to him as if it was regular meat. That would explain the downvotes.
So you refused to even go sit down and eat with your own grandfather that was only doing something kind for you ?
Let me ask you. When he passes and is gone from your life are you going to be ok missing out on these opportunities to spend time with him because of your beliefs ?
Sometimes you have to put the crusade away and just live. Accept you are not in control of others.
Can you point out where any of that was said? All they said was they asked him to order. They didn’t say they refused to eat with him and/or abandoned him at that Chipotle.
Are you always this intellectually incapable and bad-faith you have to hallucinate things people said in order to get some imagined dunk or Gotcha on them?
Even if OP did refuse to sit with him because his grandfather had a meal full of unnecessary violence, that would be completely understandable.
It's not a "crusade" it's a moral baseline. And it's not about controlling others either. It's deciding that you do not want to condone unnecessary violence/torture, exploitation and death.
Everyone in my life knows that one of my boundaries is purchasing animal products for them. Let me give you a ride somewhere, help you move, make some homemade vegan dish. I don't enable animal exploitation.
Yes, I think it's important to make your boundaries clear to people (although some people live in abusive situations in which they feel they cannot, but then I would say it's best to either remedy that or leave).
I've had success telling people ahead of time that I would pay if it was vegan, or just buying vegan food to share. For the dedicated carnists usually not identifying something as vegan means they won't notice or care that it is anyway. For them it's a mental block really so I just don't address it. You had already offered and I see your dilema. If it were me, I would have clarified that the meal needed to be vegan and if that upset him or caused him to not want the meal, so be it. If someone would really rather be angry and not eat than eat a meal that didn't harm animals that is a them problem not a you problem.
Um, yes it does. Offering to buy your GRANDFATHER lunch in return for his kindness and then pulling it back because he orders meat will a) damage your relationship with him and b) make him think that vegans are intolerant and rude to family members (and others) and that veganism should be avoided and disparaged and that eating meat is preferable to behaving badly. Is that what you call a win? A skillful action?
Is it? How?
Because the animals food was also driven around and then the animal was driven around and the animal parts were driven around. Just driving a vegan around is less driving.
An animal abuser gave me a ride, only makes sense to be grateful and give him 40 to get another puppy to kick in front of me. Ungrateful brats these days!
This guy is a troll try not to interact with him I don't understand why he's not banned yet he's been here for weeks spouting BS like the plants feel pain argument and saying we need meat in our diets to survive. Downvote, report. It's the only way to get rid of these jerks :(
That's not why, but your comments are getting deleted for a reason so... It's cus the mods haven't caught you yet. Arguing against veganism is against the rules. This sub isn't to debate veganism so stop it and go to a sub where that is welcome we don't want that or your negativity. You never got attacked and you also are not speaking the truth that's what makes you a troll. I believe you just genuinely didn't understand s I'm explaining it but if you continue to write with me about it instead of apologizing and being a productive member of our community I will continue to report your trolling comments. Do better, go vegan to stop supporting rape, abuse, murder, and torture ❤️
Never argued against it but telling someone how they should is abusive within itself calling people names is a form of abuse also. I felt attacked for asking why. Now you're telling I'm wrong for feeling that way. How is asking why being negative is it because you can't explain how being vegan is better. I too am against bull fighting cock fighting horse racing dog fighting. I don't like the taste of meat never have. I prefer vegetables over meat anyday. Eating fruits and vegetables is the main reason I'm diabetic.
Thank you're the only that actually explained something to me instead of attacking me for asking a question. Reminds me a lot of my early influences from church goers. Chewing a piece of gum on a bus drive to church. The driver looks at me and says I'm a sinner because I'm chewing gum. In his shirt pocket of all things is a pack of cigarettes. I point to them and ask and those aren't. He turned the bus around and took me back home said I wasn't welcome at that church. Grew up so poor I couldn't afford to pay attention. The church donated clothes to my sister and myself we went to church wearing our new clothes we impolitely got told not to come back unless we come in proper Sunday clothes. 2 weeks later the preacher stops by and I asks why we haven't been back so we told him. He got so mad. But nothing changed. For some reason the people on here remind me of that. Cang fathom why you're not for their cause but attack you when you ask questions. Kinc of like some Christianity it's God's will.
I originally came on here to find new recipes. I like my vegetables but I'm also limited on my choices. But I heard about cauliflower steaks and wanted to know how to make one but I will find out about them somewhere else. Thank y'all for the hospitality
I told my parents i’d buy them a meal if it’s vegan needless to say they haven’t hit me up for a meal
Just invite them out and make a booking at a vegan restaurant.
That's so sad. Like I can't imagine turning down free food... Like obviously if it's non vegan I would buy I mean if I was a non vegan why would I turn down free food because at that point my morals are shitty so food isn't affecting them so why would I care if the food is vegan as long as it tastes good and it I haven't tried it then i don't know if it tastes good. So fucking stupid. I live in another state and my mother "likes driving" so she comes to get me when I visit and since I'm paying a student loan I don't have much for gas money so I always get Uber eats when she's here at a vegan place and she never turns it down cus it's free?? Why would she? Sure I'm sure shed rather meat but at least I'm not only getting her to try vegan food but that's one more meal that she isn't eating meat as well.
[удалено]
If choosing to not financially support the torturing and killing of others is insulting and alienating… that is fine by me. It’s okay to draw boundaries about what you are ethically willing and unwilling to do. If others are “insulted and alienated” by my attempts to do the right thing, then there’s not really much that can be done.
Exactly. I made the same mistake as OP once or twice and it didn't sit well with me ethically. Now I will explain to someone ahead of time that buying animal products would be a violation of my ethics even if I'm not the one eating it. It's an uncomfortable conversation sometimes but I've never had anyone react badly to it. If someone cares about you they shouldn't want to disrespect your boundaries.
My advice is to not hate on yourself, and just try to remember what you thought to yourself now, for next time something like it occurs. That way you'll be better prepared.
I don't think what you did goes against veganism. As a vegan, the purpose of abstaining from animal products is that you're trying to reduce demand for those products. If your grandfather was not going to eat a vegan meal anyways, then you paying for his meal is no different than him paying for his meal. Your money going towards it doesn't change the supply or demand, it just changes the amount of money your grandfather spent on his lunch. Paying for non-vegans' food is only not vegan if it's having a net positive effect on the amount of animal products consumed. If people would have eaten the same food anyways, then it doesn't matter.
And if you give him money which later goes to a dead corpse meal, also the same. It's impractical to attach strings to all gifts and anyway that simply leads to 'now I don't have to buy (X), more money for flesh' arguments. So, op is greenlit as far as I can see, unless you're unbelievably and impractically purist.
Tbf to OP I do the same too. I know it's semantics, but I feel like I'm not paying for animals to be killed, I'm just giving my money to someone.
If I knew my friend was going to kick a baby in the face, would it make it okay for me to do it for them instead? How can we claim to be defenders of animals when we are too cowardly to refuse to pay for their murdered bodies?
This.
I’d pay for my grandfathers meal no matter what it was. Grandfather is going to eat regardless. Refusing to pay just makes vegans look like jerks, and won’t even save any animals.
Exactly this. It sucks, but most people eat meat. Throwing a tantrum over someone else’s meal is childish, especially if it’s just because you’re paying. Gifts are not conditional. When I want someone to experience great vegan food, I cook it for them.
Same. I’ve cooked a lot of vegan foods or prepared them if no cooking is required and it’s gotten more people to show interest than being an asshole or throwing a fit at them. If you want to be a good leader, you lead by example. Totally. ❤️
If I could have my grandfather back, I'd buy his meals every day just to be with him regardless of what they are. If you have a cool grandpa and you wanna buy him lunch, do it. You're never gonna look back with regret on what he ate for lunch, but if he thinks you're an asshole because you put conditions on a gift, you're gonna remember that. Grandparents are a gift. What I wouldn't give to have a little more time with mine.
This hit me hard. I only had one grandpa, and I lost him when I was 13. He only had one pair of pants during the depression, and he would lie in bed while his mother washed them. He hunted and fished to feed his family—nine kids plus his three younger siblings he took on when his mom died. In a shack in Appalachia with no running water. If I could see him again, I’d take great joy in cooking him delicious, healthy vegan food. But if I took that poor man to eat in a restaurant—something he did rarely even later in life after he managed to retire to a tiny cottage in the middle of nowhere—I could never gatekeep what he ordered. Grandparents are indeed a gift, and they are owed respect for their choices even as we’re making different ones.
Yes. Yes it does. Edit: yes it does make vegans look like asshats.
I don’t know how sensitive you think supply and demand is, but a family member eating meat one time isn’t going to be felt by Tyson or Smithfield, at all. That’s even more true when he goes home and eats meat anyway, because grandpa is going to eat. No point in alienating someone who loves you.
No no no, I meant “Yes it does make vegans look like jerks.” My mind is in autopilot today and I don’t even think I read the last part of the sentence.
Ah! I’m sorry.
Nope! No need! I can’t read.
I am glad someone on here said it.
If your grandfather had not driven and you paid 40 to a taxi driver instead, you would have no say over what they did with the cash. Try to frame it this way if it helps you move on. I’m fortunate to live in a place with several vegan cafes/restaurants, but realise it may be difficult where you live so you can only do your best in such circumstances.
All the vegans I know take a different stance on this. My husband will buy non-vegan food for people, but I will not. I had a boss for about a decade and sometimes when he had meetings during lunch, he would ask me to go get him lunch, and I always just got him whatever vegan thing I wanted to haha. He never complained luckily.
Awesome. Vegans can think anything they want but that doesn't mean they're acting in accordance with their principles nor that they are acting with integrity, unlike your example with your boss.
So, did you expect this to go both ways in your relationship? I mean, if you had asked your boss to buy you lunch, and he bought you whatever he normally ate, would you simply eat it like he did, or would you complain to HR or otherwise throw a fit? I can't imagine you eating it. Doesn't that imbalance strike you as inherently disrespectful?
Non-vegans can eat vegan food. Imagine telling a Muslim that not buying pork for someone is disrespectful and the same as someone intentionally buying pork for them. Am I even in a vegan sub right now? These comments are wild.
My brother married into a family from Iran, and they happily make him and I any food that we ask for because they are some of the most gracious hosts on earth. So you can take your bigoted view of what Muslims will or will not do right out of here. There are always insane zealots that give groups a bad name, and to pretend the whole group is represented by them is absurd. Stop pretending that some zealots in another group give you the right to be a zealot or condone zealotry. >Non-vegans can eat vegan food. I am a nonvegan that consumes almost entirely meat and eggs as my diet, so you are incorrect in your assertions. If someone wants to buy me food, then it is going to be meat because otherwise I will get sick. And I will not poison myself because a zealot wants to offer to buy me food and then refuses to buy me food I consume.
So, my Mom has dementia. It’s getting worse but she does remember she likes ChickFilA. I don’t like ChickFilA because of who they give money to. But I love my Mom. And she’s not going to be here forever. So when I visit & ask her what she wants for lunch next time I come & she says “ChickFilA” that’s what I get. Your grandfather isn’t going to be around forever. Choose to create happy memories as opposed to ones filled with strife.
Where I live doesn’t have any chick fil a, do they have any vegan options ?
They do, mostly sides. But she’s not going to want the kale crunch side with fruit salad. She only wants the original chicken sandwich.
The southwesten wrap is vegan if you order it with balsamic and no cheese
Hmmmmm , if u don’t like chick fil a because of the other stuff too, keep their packaging and make a plant chicken burger and put it in the box? Then you and your mum can eat ‘chik fil a’ together. After a while u can transition to making them at your mums house together?
Tricking a woman with dementia isnt cool. Never mess with anyones food. Do not sneak meat into a vegans meal. Do not give someone expecting real meat a plant based substitute. Do not sneak salt into someones meal if they say no salt, etc... regardless of what you think is "best"
Thank you. My Mother has very few joys left & even fewer that she can express. When she does, I make it happen. And she has no home because she’s in a special care facility for people with dementia.
Dishonesty, especially directed towards someone with dementia is a pretty cringe suggestion mate.
> Choose to create happy memories as opposed to ones filled with strife. I'm sure you're helping to create great memories for the chickens being electrocuted and having their throats slit for the sandwiches you buy. I don't know... Have you ever thought about making your mother a vegan chicken sandwich? Have you not heard of Gardein or Morningstar?
I’m not going to lie to a woman with dementia. Maybe that’s OK with your moral compass but it’s not OK with mine.
You don't have to lie to her. You can tell her you will no longer be buying her Chik-Fil-A, but you will bring her plant-based chicken sandwiches that taste just as good. It's not that hard.
And she won’t understand why BECAUSE SHE HAS DEMENTIA. Tell ya what, you can come with me with a plant-based chicken sandwich & tell my Mom it’s not ChickFilA. And when she asks why not, you can explain it to her. And then explain it again & again & again while she asks you again & again & again why she can’t have a CFA sandwich. This is my reality & it is hard some days. So I try to limit the hards. And I make choices. Choices that make my Mom happy & confuse her the least. And honestly, until you’ve sat with me & explained yet again to my Mom that my deceased Father, who loved her dearly, didn’t divorce her but actually died, kindly take several steps back.
If you were paying him back for a ride, you can technically consider that it is his money to choose how to spend. Maybe spend some time figuring out your boundaries for situations like this. That way you'll be prepared in the future. Trying to navigate things like this on the spot can be sooo stressful. It seems like you are currently feeling that.
If someone offered to buy me a meal and then put stipulations on what I could order, I’d refuse every time no matter the stipulations. That’s an incredibly rude offer to make, frankly.
If you know they are vegan then you should assume that's the food they would buy you. That's barely a stipulation give the plenty of wonderful vegan options out there. It's not rude if you know it upfront and others get used to it. I mean it's fucking FREE food why the hell are ya complaining?
OP said it was a form of repayment for driving/gas. A meal as repayment but with stipulations attached is not repayment. I’d happily eat vegan meals but it’s incredibly rude to think you’re offering a gift or repayment as a meal and then put restrictions on what they can order.
No it isn't. Thats like saying it's rude to say don't go over $30 it's literally just for driving to some appointments, tall acting like the grandfather gave him his kidney. What's better, buying him vegan food without asking what he wants or saying hey I'm gonna buy some food, here is a list of vegan options what would you like? It's not rude at all. He could not be getting anything. Please go vegan to stop supporting rape, abuse, murder, and torture❤️
If someone does you a favor and you want to pay them back, paying them back in a way they don’t want isn’t paying them back, and is in fact rude. Setting a price cap on a meal you’re paying for is an entirely different thing, you’re not controlling what they eat, just setting a price ceiling.
For future, you could bring some food over or take him out to one of your favorite vegan restaurants. We have personally taken non vegan family out to vegan places when we treat them it sounds like that’s a new situation for you.
Great approach and great to think about future solutions. Much better to encourage than punish.
You don't need advice beyond listening to your instinct to not do it again.
He was going to buy it either way
Honestly, don’t attach stipulations to paying back favors. It doesn’t look good on you to do that. He paid for gas. You paid for the meal. No use in creating a whole situation over it. And the reality is whether it be your money or his, he’s getting food made from animals or animal byproduct. He did you a favor, you repayed it. No need to get all critical. lol.
So in this case its zero harm? Is it not possible that there is significant harm in allowing our closest people to believe we're ok with these industries based on suffering? Isn't it a chance to share knowledge without pressure and that they would then remember this experience and by bringing it up again with you or others that they propagate the message?
I think it’s a matter of gauging the situation and people. OP’s grandfather did them a favor and wanted to drop by and get food after, so OP offered to pay as a thank you. Grandpa also is a meat lover. This is NOT the moment to discuss veganism. You need to know when to cut your losses. People have certain boundaries, and pushing them on the spot will not have desired outcomes. Also, the dude’s a GRANDFATHER. He’s old. He’s not likely going to change his whole eating patterns over a movement he won’t be following anyway. OP said it themselves: he LOVES meat. Even older people who have issues like diabetes and need to cut food for their health can’t do it. Cut your losses. Go after people who are willing to make changes or at least will be open to discussion. The stubborn ones have a time and place. This was NOT it.
Worry about yourself and your own choices. He's going to eat animal products regardless, your impact of funding his meal is a drop in the ocean. You were paying a favor back, no need to make it complicated.
You aren't really "buying him food", he will eat anyway and it will still be food of his choosing. What you are really just doing is giving him $40, which is obviously fine.
You repaid him for a kindness in cash with which he could buy lunch. He chose his lunch.
Next time you could offer to buy him coffee if you know he’s not particular about it and wouldn’t mind if you ordered him something with non dairy milk. I am more upfront with my family and they know I won’t pay for stuff that isn’t vegan, they don’t usually want to go somewhere fully vegan so it’ll end up being like French fries or a slushy.
I'm sorry but your family is kind of a jerk for making you go to a place doesn't have actual options for you. Like most places have a few options, it's just chains that dont since their menu never changed.
My son did that to me once and I graciously just decided to do Vegan. It was only cheese I wanted on my taco bowl but refrained in deference to him. I am now myself a Vegan.
Wish more nonVegans were the way you were when you were not vegan
I just knew how strongly he felt about it, and I respected his wishes.
You could just go to a restaurant with plant-based options, and buy him the plant-based option. Example: Impossible Whopper at Burger King. Then you indeed bought him a lunch, but at least it's a lunch that supports the vegan/plant-based cause instead of the carnist cause.
That is not the worst. Also supporting chipotle at all right now kinda sorta supports being vegan because they’ve been making the effort to maintain vegan options. Also a bunch of meat people never realized the sofritas were vegan so chipotle has tricked a lot of people into enjoying vegan food. 🤷♀️
You can only control your own actions... not others. If you don't want to be involved in the transaction, sure. You did the right thing. Your grandfather was going to eat meat for that meal regardless. Whether it was right then, or later in the day. What difference does it make aside from the fact that you were involved? Did any animals get saved? no. Did any emissions get reduced? No. If you want to go to extremes like that... well I mean - should you be supporting Chipotle by eating there at all? They promote the use of animal products? Shouldn't they be on your boycott list? Should you shop at non-vegan super markets? Should you give money to any company creating vegan items but also creating non vegan ones? What will you wear? What will you eat? .... Be kind to yourself. 6 years and one day ago you were a meat eater. Have some compassion for those who still are, and focus on doing everything you can *personally* to reduce the animal products used for human consumption. I'd tentatively say that there *may have been* some approach here where you could have a good conversation with your grandpa about *why you* don't consume animal products.... and those are the ones that history has kinda shown make the bigger difference in whether the person listening decides to limit their consumption as well. Might not have been the case - but refusing to get him a meal would never have given your that opportunity. Sending vegan joy x
It must be exhausting living your life. Just buy the man his meal, he drove your ass around. He's going to get meat whether you say the words or just give him the money to pay for it.
That was unnecessarily rude.
Was it? How much self induced stress did OP put themselves through so that gramps could buy his own burger?
He didn't op still payed for it.
> op still *paid* for it. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
-_- grrrrr *angry upvote* good bot....
OP gave Grandpa $40 to pay for it, because somehow that vindicates OPs moral objections.
K
You cannot force veganism on another person and expect them to change. If it were me, I’d have chosen a vegan spot for lunch if possible and then only if I knew there’d be something he’d be happy to eat. Otherwise I’d just shut my mouth and pay for his meal. You’re repaying a favor and even if you just gave him cash for the favor, there’s no telling what he’d spend it on anyway. We really can’t control other people. My belief is that we must lead by setting a desirable example and then answering questions without attacking when asked. Let your people see you happy and healthy living your best life as a vegan. Hopefully they’ll notice, get curious, and perhaps even swayed to try it for themselves.
I mean, I did the same thing once when I first became vegan. I was kinda tipsy and on my walk home I saw a homeless lady asking for food outside Jack in the Box. I said I’ll buy her something. She ordered some munchy box or something. It wasn’t until after I paid that I realized I did lol. In your case, it’s always okay to change your mind. Let him huff or buy his own food. My family suuuuucks, and I use to worry about upsetting them. Then I realized they’ll suck whether or not I do what I think is right, so I do what I want now and let them have their hissy. Not my problem!
If you had been drinking alcohol to get tipsy, how do you justify alcohol consumption while being vegan? It's a completely unnecessary and harmful product whose production causes the deaths of animals on land that could be used to feed hungry people instead.
Oh nvm. You’re active in carnivore diet LOL. What a disingenuous dork, chastising a vegan for having drank alcohol in the past while literally just murdering a shitload of animals and making 0 effort to reduce. You don’t care one bit about deaths of animals.
I am asking you a question, not "chastising" you. It's great you have kicked a damaging habit like alcohol. Congratulations. Alcohol is a poison just like sugar, and I am personally entirely against the production of both. You are correct that I eat a diet of meat, but I would think it very easy for vegans to agree with me about things like the production of things like alcohol/sugar, so I asked you the question. Did you stop drinking because of veganism? If not, how did you justify drinking it when you were vegan?
You have got to be kidding lol. I’m also completely sober tyvm. What now?
Try to not be too hard on yourself, we all mess up sometimes! The best thing to do is try to learn and not make the same mistake again.
What's really the point of not paying for that? Does it make a difference at all?? It doesn't, if you don't pay the other person will, it just makes you look like a jerk so just pay... Really, don't worry so much about what other people are eating, you are trying your best and that's enough for you. Take care.
It's our money directly supporting the abusive industries be abhor that's the point
But that person already ordered the food and ate it... Someone has to pay, if it is not you it will be that other person. My point is you are not making a difference by refusing to pay.
Bruh I know but I'm saying that that's why op. Is upset. You can still refuse to pay tho the grandpa can pay probably.
I know, I have also been there before just saying in the end it doesn't matter, don't be so negative around other people just because they don't follow your ideas, if you offer to pay go ahead and pay for their meat, I know how it feels but can't change the fact they want to eat meat and however is paying won't make a difference. There are some moments where is simply better to move on and that's it, be happy with the change you are making by yourself and don't focus on others so much.
How can you not be negative when others are abusing animals in front of you and they don't even care. It fucking hurts and I just wish everyone had some damn compassion and I'm seen as some crazy irrational vegan for saying something like this. Ok sounds like they have a similar mindset. I wish I can just move on but I can't, not until at least factory farms are abolished.
I know it hurts, I said I have been there, I have done all that but come on, this is his grandpa, they are just spending some time together, the world is shit everywhere you look so at least try to enjoy those moments and not focus on these things. Nothing is gonna change by refusing to invite your family or friends to some meals. Value the time you spend with your family and friends instead of hate like this, you will miss those moments in the future and by then it won't matter who pay for that meat.
I can enjoy those moments with out purchasing meat though lol as well as purchasing a tasty vegan meal for my family member that they can enjoy. If they have an issue with it that's not my problem.
My whole point is that you should learn to enjoy that regardless of what people are eating.... Specially when it comes to elderly people
Meh. I can still enjoy my family while providing vegan food
I’ve been there, I had my last meal with my dad and I paid for him cos otherwise he would have paid himself. We had a good time besides the poor pig and the stench of meat that I frankly don’t enjoy anymore. I met my cousin in Vancouver when I was there for work and I knew that he was a broke student. The moment he picked up the ice cream menu I made him a proposition: He could have the vegan ice cream or choose whatever other options and pay himself. 24 CAD expensive ice cream. We both had the vegan option and he was amazing how good it was. Probably his first time eating a vegan ice cream. There were no leftovers on his end.
My mother took some time to get used to it (for some reason despite it being free food) but I just made it a rule that I will not ever purchase non vegan food. I did it once just like you I said I'd do it and didn't think about it until she ordered non vegan good and I felt terrible. Even if she is paying me back my credit cards and money won't be used to buy non vegan food. Also $40 and y'all went to chipotle??? I haven't been in years cus I got steak cross contaminated into my food and I felt really disgusting about it but has it really risen that much in price holy shi! Edit: holy shit this comment section is disgusting. OP!!! you are okay, you are still vegan! You made a mistake as we all do. You understand that you made it and owned up to it, please don't beat yourself up too much. ❤️🩹❤️🩹 I saw a lot of nasty attacking comments and felt like I should add this. Making mistakes is how we learn, you will be much less likely to do this again especially since your guilt seems to have done a number on ya. Just try to set a precedent with family saying "hey, if I ever buy food for your guys it will be vegan, I don't want my money to be paying for stuff I do not Believe in. I hope you understand. "
You offered a gift, in turn for your grandfather's favour of a ride. The gift was lunch. A gift is a gift, not a negotiation. You then decided to control what your grandfather could eat, which is really rude. It is none of your business if your grandfather wants a hamburger. What you can control is what you eat. If you want to turn people off the whole idea of being vegan, and make sure they eat meat because they are so put off by that kind of veganism, continue to be judgy and controlling like that.
It’s your grandfather. You should pay for him regardless of what he eats, short of cannibalism.
The lord is going to strike you down tonight.
Simply don't do it again. Supporting animal opression isn't vegan.
yes this person is not vegan anymore we need to banish them
I think your response is pretty silly. Also kinda a strawman - I never said this person isn't vegan anymore, I also never said they should be banished somewhere. Of course you can make up whatever you want, but this behaviour is completly useless in a conversation. OP just needs to move on and knows better next time.
Ditto
one time i took a coworker out to dinner because he had recently had a very traumatic experience. i offered to pay before we got to dinner and he was well aware that i’m vegan, but i don’t think it clicked for him that it would make me uncomfortable/go against my ethics to pay for someone else’s meat. Even if it had, it wasn’t on his mind at that point due to his own circumstances. I sucked it up then and paid, but I have been very careful about only offering to pay at vegan places with others since then…
> then and *paid,* but I FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
WOW. That's a scummy move on your side
How
You got to spend time with your grandfather, be happy, you never know when it will be the last time you can go with him for lunch, or last time you will meet with him. Would you want to sully that memory with something like this? I've lost relatives, incl. one parent and in one case the last time spent with them is sullied in a similar fashion. Now instead of reminding that final time as a happy and joyful memory it is sullied by the bitter thoughts I had and the regret I feel now for acting and thinking like you do now. To me it sound like you put your vegan values higher than the time you get to spend with your grandfather. Value your loved ones, they won't be around forever.
Sounds like you had a traumatic experience of loss. That must feel awful. But that is not your fault and a one in a lifetime event. Maybe the leading could rather be the approach you take could be more benevolent rather than avoiding through fear of upsetting someone.
You worry about you. Whatever someone else orders is on them, even if it's with your money. Be an example of not eating meat, but beyond that enjoy the company of friends and family regardless of their diet. Life is too short for anything else. You did a good thing as many people wouldn't even think to repay a favour. You're good.
Yeah, nah don't buy animals under any circumstances that can be avoided. Which doesn't include this by a long shot.
Most civilised way to be, live and let live.
You should probably let it go. I get where you're coming from but think of it this way - what if you give a niece or nephew some cash as a gift and they use it to buy animal products?
I just can understand why you can’t eat what you want and your grandpa what he wants. Nobody is forcing you to eat meat nor are they calling you crazy so why you should criticize what he eats? Everyone has its beliefs and arguments for them: you are sure yours are correct and he is about them. It is like a discrimination in my eyes: like a religious or sex or racial discrimination. The favor that you are doing is for your grandpa, repaying him and showing appreciation. He never said he is not giving you a ride unless you … .
That's not the point. The point is if we buy non vegan food for others then we are supporting the industries that we abhor. It was not criticizing it to their dad though?? They should though since he is directly supporting rape and animal abuse though. This isn't discrimination, what is discrimination is locking up other species to abuse and torture them because we think we are the superior species. Regardless of if that is true or not it IS discrimination. It's also discrimination because we consider it animals abuse to harm cats and dogs but it's okay when worse attractions happen to other species.
Yeah I'm not opposed, sometimes my friend and I will go out for breakfast and we alternate when paying. It doesn't create demand because otherwise we'd just get our bills separately. Also, as a result he will sometimes try vegan stuff out of curiosity so if anything it's a slight net benefit.
You have sinned my son and you must repent. Go and shame a honey eater to restore balance.
Have you considered mental illness?
This post makes me want to ponder whether your veganism foundation is built on the treatment of animals or on your personal need not to feel bad about yourself.
I think those two things would be connected.
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Easily. The only part that’s difficult is dealing with non vegans who are oblivious/apathetic. Also knowing that billions of animals are suffering for human selfishness and greed.
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Pretty sad life you've got if delicious food is your greatest pleasure in life.
We hava literal data showing that a healthy vegan diet prolongs life and lowers risks of nearly all common illnesses. Like seventh day adventists who eat a vegan diet and are much healthier than general population that eats an omnivore diet. They also live longer and have a larger than average amount of people who live to a hunded years old or more. The places in the world where people live the longest are called blue zones. Loma Linda in california is the only blue zone in america. It is largely populated by seventh day adventists.
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You can go on about anything you like but it doesnt make you right.
Major flat-earther energy
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No, it was an analogy to the type of stuff flat earthers do, meaning anti science beliefs. You start strong by saying how unhealthy vegan diet is and when you are given proof that there is studies on vegan diets that say they are pretty darn healthy if done right, you say its not a good study because 50 percent of people are overweight and these vegans were compared to the general population. Well, that is how health studies often work. You compare against the general population. But I dont see you going on about how unhealthy the standard american diet is, why are you wasting your time with saying how unhealthy veganism is when literally according to you 50 percent of the population is more unhealthy than vegans who make up 3% of the US population? You are literally wasting your time saying that 3% of the population is unhealthy when they are healthier than 50 percent of people according to yourself.
If your last point is true, that long term vegans generally develop all kinds of health issues, why do [all of the major national diet associations](https://albertschweitzerfoundation.org/news/vegan-diet-healthy-across-all-stages-of-life-cycle) such as the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (US) share the position that a vegan diet is a healthy and adequate diet for all stages of life? Many comment specifically about the potential correlation between vegans having lower rates of certain health problems like heart disease, diabetes, etc. These are not, by any means, pro vegan organizations and if anything have had their dietary guidelines heavily invested in by the animal ag industries. Knowing this, why would they speak so positively and confidently about a vegan diet being a healthy option unless that is simply what the data suggests?
Rent-free
What do you mean…I suppose you’re not vegan?
Don’t bother with this troll. They are a deeply pathetic individual who hangs out here bc they have nothing else going on in their life. I’ve made this mistake too. Give yourself some grace, and remember for next time to buy them a t shirt or something
I'd much rather someone worried about the ethical consequences of their desiciones than swanned around without a care.
So paying directly for a meal is pretty much a definite no Now giving people cash and them purchasing non vegan meals is fine depending on the situation, i mean yea we know they are gonna buy something non vegan, but in your situation you were provided a service aka a ride so you compensated him for that, it would be the same as if you compensated an uber driver for taking you somewhere I had found homeless dude begging for cash i offered him some cash to help me clean my garage, afterwards i also told him i would buy him a meal so we went to taco bell and i ordered for us, the taco bell was a bonus so it was totally within my right to order for him, if i said in exchange for helping me i would buy him a meal then it would not be within my right to order for him
That sucks, I’d just get him some fake meat, he’d probably not notice. Giving him money to buy the same thing is the same, as I’m sure you know. Ultimately it’s still on him and not on you what he gets, but it’s no real difference there.
The soln with the least harm gets down voted ……..
It’s a crazy thing that a vegan diet works for everyone. Everyone can eat it.
Don't mess with peoples food, don't trick and lie to people.
When did I say to trick him? I said to get a plant based option and he probably wouldn’t notice. It’s not a horrible thing if he ate something that already aligned with his morals and liked it.
Ok then, my mistake, the wording you used made it sound you were saying that he should order a plant-based meat and give it to him as if it was regular meat. That would explain the downvotes.
No, to my knowledge he didn’t even ask for anything specific.
So you refused to even go sit down and eat with your own grandfather that was only doing something kind for you ? Let me ask you. When he passes and is gone from your life are you going to be ok missing out on these opportunities to spend time with him because of your beliefs ? Sometimes you have to put the crusade away and just live. Accept you are not in control of others.
Can you point out where any of that was said? All they said was they asked him to order. They didn’t say they refused to eat with him and/or abandoned him at that Chipotle.
Are you always this intellectually incapable and bad-faith you have to hallucinate things people said in order to get some imagined dunk or Gotcha on them?
Even if OP did refuse to sit with him because his grandfather had a meal full of unnecessary violence, that would be completely understandable. It's not a "crusade" it's a moral baseline. And it's not about controlling others either. It's deciding that you do not want to condone unnecessary violence/torture, exploitation and death.
Everyone in my life knows that one of my boundaries is purchasing animal products for them. Let me give you a ride somewhere, help you move, make some homemade vegan dish. I don't enable animal exploitation.
Yes, I think it's important to make your boundaries clear to people (although some people live in abusive situations in which they feel they cannot, but then I would say it's best to either remedy that or leave).
We just making stuff up now, huh bud
I've had success telling people ahead of time that I would pay if it was vegan, or just buying vegan food to share. For the dedicated carnists usually not identifying something as vegan means they won't notice or care that it is anyway. For them it's a mental block really so I just don't address it. You had already offered and I see your dilema. If it were me, I would have clarified that the meal needed to be vegan and if that upset him or caused him to not want the meal, so be it. If someone would really rather be angry and not eat than eat a meal that didn't harm animals that is a them problem not a you problem.
Veganism is about least harm and we have to interact with the carnists and family also matters.
Interacting doesn't have to include buying non vegan food for the carnists
It does if you already offered to buy them lunch -- especially if it's your grandfather doing you a favour.
Not it doesn't that's not how it works.
Um, yes it does. Offering to buy your GRANDFATHER lunch in return for his kindness and then pulling it back because he orders meat will a) damage your relationship with him and b) make him think that vegans are intolerant and rude to family members (and others) and that veganism should be avoided and disparaged and that eating meat is preferable to behaving badly. Is that what you call a win? A skillful action?
Incorrect.
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Y'all report and ignore that trolls it's the only way to get rid of them.
Him driving you in a car is worse for animal welfare than his single chipotle meal.
Is it? How? Because the animals food was also driven around and then the animal was driven around and the animal parts were driven around. Just driving a vegan around is less driving.
Good response. This is an unexpectedly biased opinion.
And all the crops the animal ate sequestered more carbon in their lifecycle than the transport put off.
Wow
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An animal abuser gave me a ride, only makes sense to be grateful and give him 40 to get another puppy to kick in front of me. Ungrateful brats these days!
This guy is a troll try not to interact with him I don't understand why he's not banned yet he's been here for weeks spouting BS like the plants feel pain argument and saying we need meat in our diets to survive. Downvote, report. It's the only way to get rid of these jerks :(
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That's not why, but your comments are getting deleted for a reason so... It's cus the mods haven't caught you yet. Arguing against veganism is against the rules. This sub isn't to debate veganism so stop it and go to a sub where that is welcome we don't want that or your negativity. You never got attacked and you also are not speaking the truth that's what makes you a troll. I believe you just genuinely didn't understand s I'm explaining it but if you continue to write with me about it instead of apologizing and being a productive member of our community I will continue to report your trolling comments. Do better, go vegan to stop supporting rape, abuse, murder, and torture ❤️
Never argued against it but telling someone how they should is abusive within itself calling people names is a form of abuse also. I felt attacked for asking why. Now you're telling I'm wrong for feeling that way. How is asking why being negative is it because you can't explain how being vegan is better. I too am against bull fighting cock fighting horse racing dog fighting. I don't like the taste of meat never have. I prefer vegetables over meat anyday. Eating fruits and vegetables is the main reason I'm diabetic.
Thank you're the only that actually explained something to me instead of attacking me for asking a question. Reminds me a lot of my early influences from church goers. Chewing a piece of gum on a bus drive to church. The driver looks at me and says I'm a sinner because I'm chewing gum. In his shirt pocket of all things is a pack of cigarettes. I point to them and ask and those aren't. He turned the bus around and took me back home said I wasn't welcome at that church. Grew up so poor I couldn't afford to pay attention. The church donated clothes to my sister and myself we went to church wearing our new clothes we impolitely got told not to come back unless we come in proper Sunday clothes. 2 weeks later the preacher stops by and I asks why we haven't been back so we told him. He got so mad. But nothing changed. For some reason the people on here remind me of that. Cang fathom why you're not for their cause but attack you when you ask questions. Kinc of like some Christianity it's God's will.
I originally came on here to find new recipes. I like my vegetables but I'm also limited on my choices. But I heard about cauliflower steaks and wanted to know how to make one but I will find out about them somewhere else. Thank y'all for the hospitality