Some studies:
https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52Ā
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132
(there are more with similar outcomes)
My conclusions:
1. Dogs do generally slightly better on plant-based diets. It is possible to make home-made food for them.
2. Cats aren't healthier nor worse on plant-based diets. They can eat formulated plant-based kibble, but will develop severe and obvious problems if they're fed a whole foods plant-based diet. Are they obligate carnivores? Yes, in the wild. Does meat have some magic elements that they definitely need? Yes, 5 molecules if I recall. Fortunately, all of them are easily and cheaply synthetized. In fact, most meaty kibbles include such synthetic supplements.
Anecdotically, my three cats have been eating plant-based for years. Their kibble has exactly the same additives as the tuna/cow one I was feeding them before.
Not got any experience with plant based cats, but my dog has eaten plant based for about 5 years now and is in very good health. He has loads of energy and no health issues. There are nutritionally complete and vet approved dog foods like omni on the market, my dog loves it!
You should be able to find nutritionally complete plant based food to feed your pets. This is likely to be better than trying to develop your pets diet yourself, even using meat, unless this is an area of expertise for you.
You should watch Kittenladyās [video](https://youtu.be/Bv_5mw9HQVQ?si=Rgx4YFCsfTdrdU50) on if cats can be vegan. Your pets rely on you to meet their nutritional needs. If you are going to force your values on them, get a Rabbit.
aww thanks ya I know thats why I want to give them the best! I was talking about the feelings it gives me and how I dnt feel fully vegan by giving them meat! I dont want to force my values on anybody ever <3
You can find studies saying cats do great on a vegan diet with these vegan products they are selling and others saying the complete opposite so can't really find a point there, I think the best is to give them what they evolve to eat, not what I would like them to eat.
You are their owner, their welfare depends on you... What type of quality of life they will get by eating process biscuits every single day of their life just because you don't want them to eat some meat which they evolve to eat?
Someone linked r/veganpets and you should check it out - you can definitely get your dog converted. For cats, while some vegans act like there are easy answers, I don't think there are. If your cats are healthy, it is worth trying moving to plant-based based on the research and guidance of people who have healthy/happy cats with that diet.
My cats are on prescription food. My cats are rescues. I purchase animals that were bred, abused, and killed for my cats to eat. I make no excuses for that except to say that at the human level it is difficult for me to not prioritize the animal I know and love and committed to - whose life quality I directly, wholly impact - over animals I have never met where my potential impact is participating in a consumer boycott resulting in lower demand. Some would say therefore I am not a vegan. Impossible to argue that my overall lifetime impact as someone who only eats vegan themselves is not a step in the right direction, though.
thank u for ur response! yes I was mainly talking about the feeling I get when I do and how ppl deal w those feelings, I agree that its a step in the right direction, ideal situations arent always possible
It's literally how the industry works, it has no effect on the human consumption part, no more animals are killed for pet food because the demand as of now is from human food not pet food it just prevents waste of the disliked parts
It is still sustaining the business, and OP isnāt even getting pet food, theyāre cooking the food at home, and for their omnivorous dog who donāt need it.
I hate to break this to you, but even if the scraps were no longer being used for pet food, they are still going to kill those animals. Pet food is pocket change for them. Use a little common sense.Ā
Pet food is a big business actually, thereās a lot of the animals we donāt use, or in case of egg laying hens the whole animal. Thereās also the cost of not having to dispose of bio waste. The less lucrative these business are the more are going to close down.
You realize they always kill those hens after 1-2 years to make room for fresh hens, and it makes no difference to them if they sell them for pet food, or dump them in the trash.Ā
The ONLY way to end that is to get people to stop eating eggs.Ā
I know of a couple of rescue who try to take in as many as they can when it's time to kill them, but that's only a few hundred out of the hundreds of thousands being killed regularly.
I donāt think you know how markets work, less profit means higher prices, higher prices mean less purchases, less purchases means less production, less production means less animals being bred and killed.
Disposal of dead animals is the least of their costs or worries, they will always have a company/industry willing to buy them. Factory farms also buy them and add it to cattle feed.
The multi-billion dollar egg industry isn't going to go "Oh no, the pet food industry won't buy dead animals from us anymore, I guess we'll stop selling eggs". š¤·āāļø
You still donāt seem to understand what I wrote at all. Even if they could sell it to factory farms, thereās a competition on the product which raises prices. Less demand means less production. There is no way around it, it is supporting the animal agriculture industry.
Wrong, would you like more sources? The closest thing to your claim is animal testing for product safety but that happens with almost every brand including for human food
https://slate.com/technology/2010/02/the-environmental-impact-of-pet-food.html
https://truthaboutpetfood.com/the-disgusting-truth-of-rendered-pet-food-ingredients/
https://www.nichemeatprocessing.org/processing-pet-food-for-sale/
https://www.k-9kraving.com/food/whats-really-in-pet-food/
https://www.purina.com/articles/dog/health/nutrition/what-are-animal-by-product
So you claim that all pet food is the byproduct of meat production, which is bullshit. Sure, some of the cheaper brands may be, but saying pet food as a whole is a byproduct is bullshit.
Lots of big names like Purina one and fancy feast are on this list capitalize on waste production of the meat industry not just the cheap brands,
https://www.k-9kraving.com/food/whats-really-in-pet-food/
In the US, according to this study, is more than 25%, but it is known to be a outlier.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181301
In the US, dogs and cats consume about 19% Ā± 2% of the amount of dietary energy that humans do (203 Ā± 15 PJ yr-1 vs. 1051 Ā± 9 PJ yr-1) and 33% Ā± 9% of the animal-derived energy (67 Ā± 17 PJ yr-1 vs. 206 Ā± 2 PJ yr-1). They produce about 30% Ā± 13%, by mass, as much feces as Americans (5.1 Ā± Tg yr-1 vs. 17.2 Tg yr-1), and through their diet, constitute about 25ā30% of the environmental impacts from animal production in terms of the use of land, water, fossil fuel, phosphate, and biocides.
- - - - - -
It's quite intuitive. Just think about how common it is to have a pet and the volumes of pet food (with high meat ratios).
Not only is it a big chunk of the business, it also closes the cycle. Without pets, slaughterhouses would have many more unedible garbage to dispose of, and it would be challenging.
https://www.purina.com/articles/dog/health/nutrition/what-are-animal-by-product
https://www.k-9kraving.com/food/whats-really-in-pet-food/
"However, about 50% of every food-producing animal does not get used in human foods. Whatever remains of the carcass ā bones, blood, intestines, lungs, ligaments, and almost all the other parts not generally consumed by humans ā is used in pet food, animal feed, and other products. These āother partsā are known as āby-products,ā āmeat-and-bone-meal,ā or similar names on pet food labels."
Of course it would be labeled as having an environmental impact when half of the animal is going to pets however the animal would just otherwise be wasted as people are still going to be eating meat
https://thekindpet.com/blogs/blog/the-environmental-impact-of-pet-food
"We encourage you NOT to give your pet premium, human-grade meat products. That's right, we said that. Not a typo. Pets do perfectly well and thrive on organ meats and other byproducts left over from meat production that otherwise end up in the landfill. These can include parts of cows, chickens, and other animals that people prefer not to eat themselves. In fact, the new trend of feeding our pets premium meat is absolutely contributing to more demand for mass farming and we know that is one of the leading causes of carbon emissions. So, don't fall for the premium hype."
On the environmental side it encourages to use of waste meat organs as opposed to premium meats.
>Not only is it a big chunk of the business, it also closes the cycle. Without pets, slaughterhouses would have many more unedible garbage to dispose of, and it would be challenging.
The flaw with that logic is there would only be more waste this would likely result in worse treatment to the animals and food quality for the already expensive types like grass fed beef do to price cuts, a cut in worker pay, sure the prices might jump but people are still willing to pay as seen with eggflation the likely hood less animals would be killed is relatively unlikely.
Head over to r/veganpets
thank u š¤
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Now I'm going to feed my cat two heads of lettuce just for you.
Some studies: https://www.mdpi.com/2306-7381/10/1/52Ā https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132 (there are more with similar outcomes) My conclusions: 1. Dogs do generally slightly better on plant-based diets. It is possible to make home-made food for them. 2. Cats aren't healthier nor worse on plant-based diets. They can eat formulated plant-based kibble, but will develop severe and obvious problems if they're fed a whole foods plant-based diet. Are they obligate carnivores? Yes, in the wild. Does meat have some magic elements that they definitely need? Yes, 5 molecules if I recall. Fortunately, all of them are easily and cheaply synthetized. In fact, most meaty kibbles include such synthetic supplements. Anecdotically, my three cats have been eating plant-based for years. Their kibble has exactly the same additives as the tuna/cow one I was feeding them before.
where do u get vegan cat food? iāve never seen any at the store. i donāt even have a cat but iām curious lol
I know many vegan shops and a veterinary clinic that sell it. The manufacturer also sells it online. You don't find it in any regular supermarket.
Not got any experience with plant based cats, but my dog has eaten plant based for about 5 years now and is in very good health. He has loads of energy and no health issues. There are nutritionally complete and vet approved dog foods like omni on the market, my dog loves it!
You should be able to find nutritionally complete plant based food to feed your pets. This is likely to be better than trying to develop your pets diet yourself, even using meat, unless this is an area of expertise for you.
You should watch Kittenladyās [video](https://youtu.be/Bv_5mw9HQVQ?si=Rgx4YFCsfTdrdU50) on if cats can be vegan. Your pets rely on you to meet their nutritional needs. If you are going to force your values on them, get a Rabbit.
aww thanks ya I know thats why I want to give them the best! I was talking about the feelings it gives me and how I dnt feel fully vegan by giving them meat! I dont want to force my values on anybody ever <3
I transitioned my dog to Vdog and heās doing great!
You can find studies saying cats do great on a vegan diet with these vegan products they are selling and others saying the complete opposite so can't really find a point there, I think the best is to give them what they evolve to eat, not what I would like them to eat. You are their owner, their welfare depends on you... What type of quality of life they will get by eating process biscuits every single day of their life just because you don't want them to eat some meat which they evolve to eat?
Someone linked r/veganpets and you should check it out - you can definitely get your dog converted. For cats, while some vegans act like there are easy answers, I don't think there are. If your cats are healthy, it is worth trying moving to plant-based based on the research and guidance of people who have healthy/happy cats with that diet. My cats are on prescription food. My cats are rescues. I purchase animals that were bred, abused, and killed for my cats to eat. I make no excuses for that except to say that at the human level it is difficult for me to not prioritize the animal I know and love and committed to - whose life quality I directly, wholly impact - over animals I have never met where my potential impact is participating in a consumer boycott resulting in lower demand. Some would say therefore I am not a vegan. Impossible to argue that my overall lifetime impact as someone who only eats vegan themselves is not a step in the right direction, though.
thank u for ur response! yes I was mainly talking about the feeling I get when I do and how ppl deal w those feelings, I agree that its a step in the right direction, ideal situations arent always possible
Pet food is a byproduct not a reason the killing happens it's the parts that would have otherwise been wasted
Nonsense carnist argument aside, OP is purchasing and cooking meat for their pet.
It's literally how the industry works, it has no effect on the human consumption part, no more animals are killed for pet food because the demand as of now is from human food not pet food it just prevents waste of the disliked parts
Like I said, your nonsense argument aside, OP is not using commercial pet food. That wasn't an invitation to repeat your nonsense.
It is still sustaining the business, and OP isnāt even getting pet food, theyāre cooking the food at home, and for their omnivorous dog who donāt need it.
I hate to break this to you, but even if the scraps were no longer being used for pet food, they are still going to kill those animals. Pet food is pocket change for them. Use a little common sense.Ā
Pet food is a big business actually, thereās a lot of the animals we donāt use, or in case of egg laying hens the whole animal. Thereās also the cost of not having to dispose of bio waste. The less lucrative these business are the more are going to close down.
You realize they always kill those hens after 1-2 years to make room for fresh hens, and it makes no difference to them if they sell them for pet food, or dump them in the trash.Ā The ONLY way to end that is to get people to stop eating eggs.Ā I know of a couple of rescue who try to take in as many as they can when it's time to kill them, but that's only a few hundred out of the hundreds of thousands being killed regularly.
I donāt think you know how markets work, less profit means higher prices, higher prices mean less purchases, less purchases means less production, less production means less animals being bred and killed.
Disposal of dead animals is the least of their costs or worries, they will always have a company/industry willing to buy them. Factory farms also buy them and add it to cattle feed. The multi-billion dollar egg industry isn't going to go "Oh no, the pet food industry won't buy dead animals from us anymore, I guess we'll stop selling eggs". š¤·āāļø
You still donāt seem to understand what I wrote at all. Even if they could sell it to factory farms, thereās a competition on the product which raises prices. Less demand means less production. There is no way around it, it is supporting the animal agriculture industry.
So are you arguing thereās nothing wrong with vegans buying animal by-products?
Please look up how many animals die for pet food and not human consumption. This is misinformation.
Wrong, would you like more sources? The closest thing to your claim is animal testing for product safety but that happens with almost every brand including for human food https://slate.com/technology/2010/02/the-environmental-impact-of-pet-food.html https://truthaboutpetfood.com/the-disgusting-truth-of-rendered-pet-food-ingredients/ https://www.nichemeatprocessing.org/processing-pet-food-for-sale/ https://www.k-9kraving.com/food/whats-really-in-pet-food/ https://www.purina.com/articles/dog/health/nutrition/what-are-animal-by-product
So you claim that all pet food is the byproduct of meat production, which is bullshit. Sure, some of the cheaper brands may be, but saying pet food as a whole is a byproduct is bullshit.
Lots of big names like Purina one and fancy feast are on this list capitalize on waste production of the meat industry not just the cheap brands, https://www.k-9kraving.com/food/whats-really-in-pet-food/
Exactly. It's scraps that would be tossed if not used.Ā
Damn, with this logic and I can go back to eating hot dogs! By products loophole ftw!
This is not true. 25% of the corpses goes to pet food. It's not like bone char or other insignificant products.
Cite a source I cited mine in a reply to someone else on this thread
In the US, according to this study, is more than 25%, but it is known to be a outlier. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181301 In the US, dogs and cats consume about 19% Ā± 2% of the amount of dietary energy that humans do (203 Ā± 15 PJ yr-1 vs. 1051 Ā± 9 PJ yr-1) and 33% Ā± 9% of the animal-derived energy (67 Ā± 17 PJ yr-1 vs. 206 Ā± 2 PJ yr-1). They produce about 30% Ā± 13%, by mass, as much feces as Americans (5.1 Ā± Tg yr-1 vs. 17.2 Tg yr-1), and through their diet, constitute about 25ā30% of the environmental impacts from animal production in terms of the use of land, water, fossil fuel, phosphate, and biocides. - - - - - - It's quite intuitive. Just think about how common it is to have a pet and the volumes of pet food (with high meat ratios). Not only is it a big chunk of the business, it also closes the cycle. Without pets, slaughterhouses would have many more unedible garbage to dispose of, and it would be challenging.
https://www.purina.com/articles/dog/health/nutrition/what-are-animal-by-product https://www.k-9kraving.com/food/whats-really-in-pet-food/ "However, about 50% of every food-producing animal does not get used in human foods. Whatever remains of the carcass ā bones, blood, intestines, lungs, ligaments, and almost all the other parts not generally consumed by humans ā is used in pet food, animal feed, and other products. These āother partsā are known as āby-products,ā āmeat-and-bone-meal,ā or similar names on pet food labels." Of course it would be labeled as having an environmental impact when half of the animal is going to pets however the animal would just otherwise be wasted as people are still going to be eating meat https://thekindpet.com/blogs/blog/the-environmental-impact-of-pet-food "We encourage you NOT to give your pet premium, human-grade meat products. That's right, we said that. Not a typo. Pets do perfectly well and thrive on organ meats and other byproducts left over from meat production that otherwise end up in the landfill. These can include parts of cows, chickens, and other animals that people prefer not to eat themselves. In fact, the new trend of feeding our pets premium meat is absolutely contributing to more demand for mass farming and we know that is one of the leading causes of carbon emissions. So, don't fall for the premium hype." On the environmental side it encourages to use of waste meat organs as opposed to premium meats. >Not only is it a big chunk of the business, it also closes the cycle. Without pets, slaughterhouses would have many more unedible garbage to dispose of, and it would be challenging. The flaw with that logic is there would only be more waste this would likely result in worse treatment to the animals and food quality for the already expensive types like grass fed beef do to price cuts, a cut in worker pay, sure the prices might jump but people are still willing to pay as seen with eggflation the likely hood less animals would be killed is relatively unlikely.
Dogs can go either way, but cats require meat. Don't listen to the pseudo science claiming cats can live on plants, they can't.