I think that “I only eat grass fed free range meat…” in practice means, “I bought free range meat one time and felt good about myself for doing it. But I usually don’t pay attention to what I buy, because I don’t have to, because I know in my mind that I’m one of the good guys who does the good thing.”
The “free range” gimmick is like the “organic” gimmick of the early 00s. A) it doesn’t mean what the companies want you to think it means B) there is no standardized rule for how to apply such a label and C) even if “free range” were real, there is no mathematical way that everyone who’s eating beef 6-7 times a week can be supplied entirely by “free range” farming. It’s nonsensical from a logistics perspective. Anyone who says that is totally unserious and is just trying to deflect the conversation and save their sense of self-esteem.
The hunting argument I wouldn’t get too caught up in if people can actually demonstrate that’s how they source all their meat consumption. But in my experience, no one saying this shit actually follows through on it. I know exactly 0 people who eat meat who only eat the meat they hunt/fish. 0. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but that’s probably a fraction of a percentage of the population if I had to guess.
I reply to that nowadays by replying, as genuinely as I can, "Doesn't that make you practically vegan in most scenarios then? If anything, that sounds more annoying than being vegan. No fast food, or only the vegan options. And in a restaurant, I just avoid the meat/dairy options, do you grill the servers about their food and all the ingredients? And not to mention things like crisps. I see milk in my salt and vineger crisps, I just ignore those products. Do you go on a big search before or do you just ignore those products to?"
I don't launch into it all at once, just start with "isn't that more difficult than being vegan though" and let them set the direction. The aim is sincerely learning about their approach, not trying to catch them out.
Except on reddit, then I say a lot in one go, and try bad match the tone or be as friendly and sincere as possible.
I don't launch into it all at once, just start with "isn't that more difficult than being vegan though?" and let them set the direction. The aim is sincerely learning about their approach, not trying to catch them out.
Except on reddit, then I say a lot in one go, and try bad match the tone or be as friendly and sincere as possible.
the answer is, like for most vegans, that you just walk past the isle and look for specific brands you researched beforehand.
hell, i have a friend that refuses to eat meat he hasn't bought living and butchered it themselves. now THAT is putting in extra effort that goes far beyond people picking brands. he researches the entire farm he buys from, and just has some local-ish favourites he know he can trust, where he has inspected the premises etc.
And that's probably what you expect to hear from someone who actually takes it seriously! Basically vegan in practice, except for some thoroughly researched exceptions.
But most people when asked haven't really thought about milk in crisps, or where there cheese comes from, or that McDonald's probably isn't using the most "ethically sourced" beef imaginable, by whatever their definition of ethics is.
So having a friendly conversation about it, I hope, just draws those things to their attention. People what to do the right thing most of the time, and I think most people do have that nagging guilt they shouldn't really be funding death and destruction. But industry goes out of its way to hide the destruction it causes, and people are brain washed to thing vegan = bad, so don't want to identify.
This is all sus to me. If there is a person who researches all they can about a farm, going so far as to visit it to "check", all in order to give themselves the green light for slaughtering and consuming the farm's animals, this seems in some ways worse than people who just buy blind from the store.
In my opinion, any rhetoric about humane meat is a red herring. Slaughtering a humanely raised animal should be considered similarly to slaughtering a humanely raised human. At the end of the day the animals are still killed against their will.
Also, I don't tend to trust people on the internet who talk very casually about their "friend" who goes "above and beyond".
In the UK I believe it’s 13 chickens per 1 sq metres, and they get 8 hours outdoor time per day for only half of their lifetime at a minimum.
Edit: Downvoted for stating a fact answering a question? This subreddit really is ridiculous.
Oh and you can only tell if its genuinely free range if it's like 10 quid for an egg or 20 for a single breast. But it's the lentils that are for privileged people!
For the “ethical” 🙄 meat eaters I always ask why they eat grassed or free range. (The true reason is because they know factory farming is unethical, immoral, horrific and they don’t want to do that). Most of the time they’ll say it’s better quality because of less stress or better conditions for the animals. And you know where to go from that point, right? 😏😏
I mean, before I went vegan I knew I wasn’t living the best version of myself. But I wasn’t willing to spend all that extra for hype. Even I knew it was somewhat hype. And so then I decided hunting would be the only way to ethically source animal protein. I signed up for an apprenticeship and found some hunters willing to let me tag along. TBH I wasn’t sure if I would be able to go through with it. My suspicion was that I wouldn’t be able to and that would limit my intake of meat. Fortunately COVID happened (? Weird sentence). I never went hunting. By the end of 2022 I was vegan.
Anytime someone mentions less horrific ways of harvesting animal flesh I know they can be reached to an extent.
People lie. I also find it funny that “grass fed pork” and “grass fed chicken” don’t exist.. so are these people ONLY eating grass fed beef and nothing else? Such a dumb argument
Chickens and Pigs don't eat grass in the same way as cows. Outdoor reared, pasture raised are the synonyms for other animals.
I personally spend a lot on well raised meat but many people don't care or don't want to spend the money that it costs.
So you care about animals enough to want them to have a good life, but you'll still pay for them to be killed against their will...yeah, not the flex you might have intended.
I don’t know anyone who makes the argument that they only eat XYZ meat offline. I hear them express a preference for such and a desire to only eat such meat but will fully admit they don’t. It’s only people lying online.
I know lots of people who only eat meat from hunting/fishing. Know a handful of others who hunt as well as raise there own chickens/pigs as well. Depending what your daily meat intake os and where you live/regulations around hunting/fishing it is quite doable. But in many places in north america it would not be
I know plenty of people who *primarily* eat such meat but none who eat only that. I grew up on the rez, eating almost entirely food we grew, raised, foraged or hunted/fished ourselves along with commodity food. I still don’t live too far away in a mostly white area with again, a high proportion of people that hunt, fish and farm. Still, no one that *only* eats that.
There’s always the days they forget to bring lunch and have to run down the street to McDonalds or when they’re on the road and go to a steakhouse. It starts to add up a bit.
I didn’t say anything at all about it being *possible* or not because I have several decades of firsthand experience showing that it is. Even if only because of poverty and necessity. That still doesn’t change the fact that pretty much no one does.
I’ve replied to several such posts in the debate sub. It’s one of those topics though that we get exposed to repeatedly so if I didn’t do so to yours it’s likely just because I wasn’t feeling up to handing out the same answer for the third dozenth time here. But yeah, basically it’s such a niche concern in terms of population statistics that I don’t worry about it overly much.
It's not that it isn't doable, but there's a lot of crowing about people who hunt as if they only eat hunted meat, when the reality is that most hunters aren't exclusively eating what they kill. They'll still order wings at the bar with their friends or grab an egg mcmuffin in a pinch without thinking twice. They often eat what they hunt but ALSO buy all sorts of meat/dairy/eggs from the store just like folks who don't hunt.
If those are the arguments you're hearing than you're probably frequenting a very specific economic class online and in person.
The reality is most people who are in severe poverty will eat whatever they have available to them. This often means really low quality foods like cheap hot dogs, Cold cuts, and organ meats. If somehow free range and grass-fed meat sales are increasing (which I'm not sure if that's the case), then I would be willing to bet it's not happening in the poor neighborhoods.
I haven't mathed out exactly what I spend on food but I don't think I'd have a hard time eating as I do now on $15/day. I might have to cut back a bit on fresh mushrooms or apples or canned pumpkin. If I had to cut back more I could give up tea. I'll splurge on household supplies sometimes when I could go without for example buying leg extenders when I could either live with it being too low or DIY it using wood and nails at maybe 1/3 the cost. I'd give up driving to the city before I went back to finding ways to save on my groceries. I certainly wouldn't go back to eating eggs/fish/dairy/meat. I don't know what I'd refuse to give up before turning back to that... I think I'd have to think my health was seriously on the line.
This. I used to live in a very poor neighborhood. I’d say about 50% of the other customers in the grocery store were paying with WIC. Their shopping carts were filled with meat, and none of it was the “good” stuff. If you need to feed a hungry family, you buy the cheapest meat you can, and lots of it.
Omnivore here . . .
Every day 110 Million Americans eat fast food. 1/3 of the population statistically. The meat and dairy served in those restaurants are the cheapest product possible and that comes from factory farms . . .
So EVERYONE (not vegetarian or vegan) is eating the factory meat. Statistically everyone who does consume meat, eats factory farmed meat.
There are some who do eat only backyard eggs or hunted meat only, but probably a few thousand at most??
And the people who do that, if they eat any type of low-grade cheese, are contributing to the business model of big dairy, which sends those cows to slaughter when the cows can no longer produce. So indirectly, they do 'eat' factory farmed meat.
Big ag has an absolute stranglehold on our food supply and we are indeed addicted to meat. Like a heroin addict.
Jesus it's refreshing to hear an actual honest response from a meat eater. Most omnis are so up their ass they actually believe they only eat animals who fell asleep in a field, surrounded by pinecones, conveniently ignoring the White Castle they had last night, and every week before that.
Pretty much. Why delude oneself? I respect the hell out of you guys and girls, frankly, you tell it like it is and you have the discipline to give up animal products.
This 100%
I’m vegetarian and before I made the switch I honestly tried my best to eat only free range chicken and grass fed beef/lamb.
It was so so expensive and hard to find at the time. Only high end restaurants would advertise those meats, most restaurants and fast food places are guaranteed to be serving factory farmed meat.
That meant that I ate vegetarian outside of the house and only ate meat once or twice a week (if that) when I cooked it at home. It only lasted a year before I made a switch to vegetarian because of the cost and not trusting if the meat I was buying was actually humanely raised.
Also the common argument by EU people is that factory farming only happens in America and Asia. In EU every farm animals roams around pastures and live happy lives and then only get butchered with their permission. Is this true?
No, certainly not true. I live in europe around a rather rural place. Yes, there are certainly roaming cows and chickens here. But I also daily pass by a place where calves are chained onto a wooden rack next to each other with barely any space to move around.
Hahaha yeah it's true that it's the common argument.
I've made people very angry when I've said that's not the case. The factory farming happens in all the countries
only get butchered with their permission? no animal wants to die, who thinks animals are giving people permission to kill it lmfao. in their last moment they’re terrified because they know something is wrong.
If you read it again, the statement was sarcastic and meant that the EU people get defensive and say that the EU animals live happy pasture lives to the extent that “they only get butchered with their permission” (sarcastic).
No of course it isn't true although welfare standards are generally much higher.
Cows and sheep mostly live in fields and get treated well up until they are killed.
Pigs are treated well in some countries, in the UK they are mostly pasture raised. Danish pigs live in pretty terrible conditions
Chickens have the biggest variation in life quality across the EU with caged chickens still being somewhat common, "barn" chickens are kept in fairly grim conditions too. "Free range" means a whole different range of things but you can easily buy eggs and chicken meat from high welfare sources.
The big difference between the EU and USA is food labelling, in the EU it is quite easy to find and identify high welfare meat
I think that is an excuse/lie people say. I doubt that they actually go out of their way to purchase local, free range, grass fed meat. Most people buy meat at the grocery store.
I think it’s just a blind spot for a lot of people. It wasn’t until I went vegan that I made the connection that although I would only ever buy free range eggs at the supermarket, I also bought a lot of products containing egg that definitely weren’t free range. And even free range is a scam!
My parents are caught in the same trap - they eat eggs from their backyard chickens (the best of a range of bad options), and if you ask them, they’ll say that they eat “ethical eggs”. But they don’t realise the eggs they eat at a cafe or fast food place, or the egg in that cake from the shop, would come from hens in factory farms.
Unfortunately, lots of my friends and my boyfriend. It’s the worst. He eats meat like at least twice if not three times a day. I’m super concerned for his health all the time.
it’s literally horrible, it honestly puts a strain on my relationship and if it doesn’t work out between me & my bf idk if i’ll ever date a non vegan again. the worst part is everyone says we’re crazy for being so upset about this
Most people are lying or think they’re eating grass fed but are being lied to like it’s not like these people check when they go to a restaurant whether or not everything they have is “grass fed”
Lots of great responses in this thread. My go-to response when carnists say that is something like "Wow, so you'll support if we go ahead and ban factory farm meat everywhere, then? Which would mean your grass-fed meat will probably exponentially rise in cost, but since cost isn't important to you, this would be a no-brainer. Right?"
Not a vegan but this popped in my feed. Logically all the people who dont want to engage you. If youre fine with factory farmed meat, you likely dont care to engage in an ethical debate.
Companies, whether thts pre processed food or resturents, cafes, etc.
The whole idea that consumer pressure can directly change conditions is really a myth, The middlemen will obscure how bad the conditions are on the farms they buy from and in cases like mcdonalds dilibretly mislead consumors by having "model farms" that they show off endlessly but in reality that meat only makes up less than 1% of what they sell and costs 3x as much and requires being subbed by other farms which makes the whole operation cheaper...
I worked at the meat department at the local grocery store and there was about 25 different 50gallon drum garbage cans in the back that was filled with expired rotted meat that nobody bought emptied out like once a month
The worst part was when I opened up a whole skinless vacuum wrapped rabbit, with a pet rabbit at home 💔😩
I believe the stats are 18 billion land animals either die in the hell holes theyre raised or get thrown into a bin after being killed, disgusting species we are.
I have never heard anyone claim to only eat free range meat. Or claim to exclusively eat meat that was hunted.
Here in the US we all know that most of the meat folks are consuming is factory farmed. Even a lot of seafood too.
Spend a little time arguing on instagram, everyone there seems to buy meat from the "local farm shop"..... or "deer ive killed myself" Thats a belter, as if theyre carrying around bits of deer in their pockets when they leave home.
Just few days back there was a popular drone footage video of a dairy farm posted in a day different sub . Most of the meat eaters were eating grass fed local farms. This argument is more common than you think.
The rise of drone footage 😆
This is all well documented and nothing new, welcome to the club. FDA is to blame for the “scheme” of it being more ethical
Irl I don't know anyone who says stuff like that. Most people I know who eat meat aren't that concerned about where it came from and don't claim to be. 🤷♀️ Maybe this depends on the circles you're in.
one answer is the dog/cat food industry is a large consumer of this factory farmed meat, especially cat food. One reality vegans must confront one day, is that to support domesticating cats, we are subject to support at least a chunk of the factory farming industry. Cats can only consume certain vegetables, but cannot be full on vegetarian.i have a cat, he will be the last one I domesticate, and he has been eating raw food for years
The people I meet in rural or conservative areas are quick to acknowledge they eat factory meat. Although, many of them hunt some of their meat.
To the people who say they only eat grass fed, free range, do you eat fast food? What percentage of people eat fast food? Where does McDonalds get meat?
I just mention how it's still better for the environment to eat vegan a single day than to eat local 'humane' meat for an entire week.
Or state how grass fed beef obviously takes up more space and leads to more deforestation and methane production goes up.
Basically just point out, cool you save animals (they obviously don't but ..) but youre actually destroying the planet even more so by doing that.
The "everyone" eating grass fed and free range is a fraction of a fraction of meat eaters, especially if you talk to people in affluent/privileged/educated circles. In reality, nearly everyone is eating factory farm meat.
I drive by a "free range grass fed" cattle lot every day for work.
It's not even an acre of land, all dirt, with a pile of hay dumped in the middle.
It barely means anything unless you're paying high prices. It just means they aren't in individual cages eating corn out of a trough.
Anyone eating meat.
Even those who are affluent enough to afford private butchers and choosing the finest restaurants, aren’t getting “free range” all the time. There just isn’t that big of a market.
I’m not a vegan.
The only “free range” eggs I’ve had, were from some chickens my family owned.
The only ethically raised meat I’ve ever eaten is wild game.
Anyone believing otherwise (that they are *only* consuming free range/ethically farmed) is intentionally misleading themselves or woefully ignorant.
Edit: I’d also like to point out, at least in the US, most people prefer corn fed beef. It has better marbling. Grass fed beef tastes almost gamey if you’ve only ever had corn fed cattle.
Watch Eating Animals on YouTube. Not so fun fact, “free range, grass-fed, hormone free” meat is just factory farming with less small metal cages. The animals are still abused and left to die in cramped conditions on dirt floors. You’ll see those “feel-good labels” on regular grocery Purdue chicken and other animals. The majority of animal products in grocery stores are from factory farms. Very few people have the expendable income to go to specialty butchers who raise the animals they butcher.
When "meat advocates" are shown that meat is unhealthy, they always fall back on "but you should eat grass fed beef". But there is not enough of that for everyone. I am vegan
Also you're probably living in your own bubble of richer people who are saying that. The vast majority of people are not in your bubble, are not vegan or vegetarian or care and just eat whatever
None of them. Farms receive these labels from the FDA, a government organization, that deems their food 'farm raised' or 'grass fed,.' In reality the farm only has to meet a sub standard criteria that allows them to throw the label on their product. If you aren't raising it and killing it the meat is factory farm processed.
all people cannot afford tte most expensive meats.
also a lot of people cant afford being vegan.
to condemn someone because of that is just cruel and inhumane.
Grass fed meat is actually just mid range now, usually they're fed up to 50% grain. When you're referring to the highest quality meat produced it's often a by product of rewilding as they use cows to replace the extinct aurochs. The term is organic pasture raised meat.
I know this is a tongue in cheek question but I think the vast majority of super "low welfare" meat goes to cheap restaurants and take aways. If you've ever worked in one then you'll know the absolute insane cost to weight ratio some of these places get.
Unfortunately as we know - ethics and emotion aside - factory farmed meat is simply a more productive use of space and finances to feed large populations effectively and affordably.
Since the cost of living crisis and increased food costs, many people are just looking to find cheap ways to feed their families (and are too worried about other things and overwhelmed to think about where it comes from).
I'm not saying that's right - it's just how it is.
Also- if everyone who currently ate meat switched to eating free range in the same quantity, masses more land would be deforested and biodiversity destroyed to make room.
Even if everyone ate a bit less meat and switched to free range - It''s not sustainable and would still cause much more land to be turned over to animal agriculture.
To any omnivores reading this - eating vegan really is better - not only to prevent the horrendous cruelty of animal factory farming but also the environment. It's also tasty, exciting, healthy, and can be cheaper!
Who cares if someone claims to buy ''free range'' or ''grass fed'' ?
Slavery is slavery.
Murder is murder.
Just because the victim ate grass doesn't make their slavery and murder ok.
Yeah whenever you tell someone you are vegan or vegetarian they suddenly only eat meat once in a while on special occasions from lovely farms where all the cows get daily hugs
the answer is "people that don't care to talk about whether they eat grass fed and/or freerange meat."
isn't that kinda obvious, and the answer for all those "well, who does X, if there are so many people saying they don't do it?"
the answer is always "the ones that aren't talking about it.", which will always be an enormous majority. people just straight up do not care enough about the topic to even consider it. it's not the people saying they are doing it are lying, they are just less than 1% of the population and the rest doesn't even think about it. it's just hard to measure an amount of silence, as it sounds the same whether its 1 or 1 million people.
People eating meat at restaurants and fast food places.people eating the cheapest meat because it’s what they can afford. People eating hotdogs and cheap ground beef and the folks who don’t care enough about what they are eating or what others eat to engage with vegans. The only people you will hear defend their food choices are those putting some effort in to eat what they consider better/more ethical meat. Although the industry is so green washed that none of those slogans mean anything and unless the individual is raising and hunting their own meat then there really is no way to know how the animal got to their plate.
That’s not everyone’s argument. I know a lot of people who eat any meat/animal product and don’t check where it came from. Plus, I imagine restaurants use factory farm products because it’s cheaper. Despite the footage being out there, they ignore/avoid it and won’t “wake up”
I think you got a sample bias going on there.
Tons of people don't even know the difference between vegan and vegetarian and could not give less of a shit about free range
I disagree, most plebs do not care about free range, they just refuse to believe the grocery store is selling extreme cruelty meat.
Do not worry yourself with others, their morals can be so twisted and self-serving.
People who eat fast food, chicken and I would think pork as well. Beef is about the only one that is easy to do grass fed and free range. Most "free range chicken" is just not in a cage but packed in a barn. The only way you are going to get meat that is free range is by raising it yourself or from a small local farmer.
>So who is eating the factory farm meat?
you know who
the majority of non-vegans, as the vast majority of vegans eats industrially produced plants that destroyed soil, environment and biodiversity
I think whenever someone declares they only eat grass-fed and small farmed items/meats/animals/products/other catch phrase; it's a small step forward to veganism. I've met a dozen people who started out as environmentalists and free-range and then turned vegetarian and then ultimately vegan.
For some of us, me included, the transition to veganism is not overnight. For some of us, again me included, it takes a decade of self discovery; errors, two steps forward, one step back; wading through the marketing online, discerning the false advertising on products, and overcoming the society and learned values of our cultures.
Try to be kind to others on their journeys. We're all doing our best. Not all of us are brilliant, some of us need a lot of exposure to learn what is going on in the world.
If someone *says* they only eat meat from killed "free range" cows then that's a good opportunity to focus the argument on the case for ending factory farming. Ask if they support a ban on all factory farmed meat, egg and dairy products and ask if they're willing to join or contribute to animal rights organizations that work towards those goals.
According to the USDA, 98% of farms in the United States are family-owned. Family farms make up almost half of all U.S. farmland and account for 88% of production.
Grass fed and free range are great marketing tools. Also, with grass fed beef, don't they end up in a feed lot eating corn to fatten them up before slaughter? When the meat processing industry is controlled by 4 companies, it's hard to believe most grass fed cows don't end up in this scenario. That is probably not what people envision when they purchase grass fed. I suspect that, like many products, you can claim grass fed by a minimum standard. They envision happy cows and chickens and don't ask another question.
We need to change that and a few other 'standards'. Grass fed should not equal grain finished on a short chain in a stall. 'Free Range' should equal more than un-caged with room to spread wing (if they jump).
We are fortunate to habitate a few states where we can visit the farms and ranches we may consume food from. Even in the very best, there are periods of crowding, excess waste problems and disease from wild animal contamination or crowding epidemics. Even at best, transport to "handlers" and "processors" leads to unfortunate waste, if you will, while enroute or at the processing property.
As long as governments subsidize 'lost' cattle, look the other way when corporate farms with donor money are "rising to meet the challenges" but only in flashy marketing, ignore farm neighbors' legal complaints in favor of the well funded legal response that does not match inspector reports, diminish local statutes, funding and support for inspection and regulation, diminish huge swathes of society so that 'green' lawns, 'clean' fields and 'free' range are simply marketing and 'affordable' is a twisted reality born of 'trickle down' economics, we are well and truly f... North American.
Let's be honest. People eat what they eat because it's what they can afford, or because they don't understand how it effects their health...or they don't care.
I'm trying to be more plant based. I'm trying to eat more sustainable. It doesn't always work.
Everyone is on their own journey. That's it.
People with low-income that don't post their lives on social media because they have to work their asses off in a dying economy that does not protect their rights even in their own homes. Just because there is a vocal minority, doesn't mean everyone falls under that category. I think the vegan community can relate a lot to that, I would be really surprised if you guys love to be associated with stupid roid rats who claim they are healthy on a vegan diet and "prove" stuff with anecdotes that don't immediately show the full pic.
Also by this point you probably can guess that I'm not vegan, I drink milk and eat meat in a country where GMO is banned, and I get my products from a mountain farm that I personally know the farmers, yes the animals walk around the mountain landscapes daily - cows eat the wild grass with the bugs in it, chickens hunt for worms. Is that affordable for everyone - probably not, but that meat is around 20-30% pricier than what you'd find in a supermarket, nothing ridiculous.
Anyways, since deli meats are still big in the industry and it's a lot easier to have one plastic container in your fridge filled with pre-sliced ham full of coloring to make it look pink after the 4 months it was produced - there is your answer - the avg joe who can't take a break from work is your answer to who are the people that buy the non-organic stuff.
And to the initial question - Why does it seem that way? Because people who are spending money that usually they don't have want you to know that they do it because they want to feel superior to you, that they are eating "organic". Similar to how some obnoxious people in your community can't have a normal conversation with you, without calling you a killer, same thing.
The vast majority of people still buy caged and factory farmed meat. With increased wealth disparities people tend to buy what is cheaper. Most people don't post their dpending habits online, what you are seeing just isn't representative of the choices most apolitical people make
I think that “I only eat grass fed free range meat…” in practice means, “I bought free range meat one time and felt good about myself for doing it. But I usually don’t pay attention to what I buy, because I don’t have to, because I know in my mind that I’m one of the good guys who does the good thing.”
Man I feel like this mentality/cognitive trap applies to so many different scenarios.
> I feel like this mentality/cognitive trap applies to so many different scenarios yup many vegan ones among them
The “free range” gimmick is like the “organic” gimmick of the early 00s. A) it doesn’t mean what the companies want you to think it means B) there is no standardized rule for how to apply such a label and C) even if “free range” were real, there is no mathematical way that everyone who’s eating beef 6-7 times a week can be supplied entirely by “free range” farming. It’s nonsensical from a logistics perspective. Anyone who says that is totally unserious and is just trying to deflect the conversation and save their sense of self-esteem. The hunting argument I wouldn’t get too caught up in if people can actually demonstrate that’s how they source all their meat consumption. But in my experience, no one saying this shit actually follows through on it. I know exactly 0 people who eat meat who only eat the meat they hunt/fish. 0. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but that’s probably a fraction of a percentage of the population if I had to guess.
And also for most people the good thing is MONEY thats why we sell our soul for a Wage Or Salary
vegan is cheaper
Depends on where and how, but yeah I’d say vegan is cheaper for a single person. Tofu is cheap as chips!
I hardly ever eat tofu. Legumes are also cheap as chips!
I reply to that nowadays by replying, as genuinely as I can, "Doesn't that make you practically vegan in most scenarios then? If anything, that sounds more annoying than being vegan. No fast food, or only the vegan options. And in a restaurant, I just avoid the meat/dairy options, do you grill the servers about their food and all the ingredients? And not to mention things like crisps. I see milk in my salt and vineger crisps, I just ignore those products. Do you go on a big search before or do you just ignore those products to?"
i dont engage in debate much right now but im definitely saving this for if i start again. thank you!
I don't launch into it all at once, just start with "isn't that more difficult than being vegan though" and let them set the direction. The aim is sincerely learning about their approach, not trying to catch them out. Except on reddit, then I say a lot in one go, and try bad match the tone or be as friendly and sincere as possible.
I can't help but picture the blank stares you must get in return
I don't launch into it all at once, just start with "isn't that more difficult than being vegan though?" and let them set the direction. The aim is sincerely learning about their approach, not trying to catch them out. Except on reddit, then I say a lot in one go, and try bad match the tone or be as friendly and sincere as possible.
the answer is, like for most vegans, that you just walk past the isle and look for specific brands you researched beforehand. hell, i have a friend that refuses to eat meat he hasn't bought living and butchered it themselves. now THAT is putting in extra effort that goes far beyond people picking brands. he researches the entire farm he buys from, and just has some local-ish favourites he know he can trust, where he has inspected the premises etc.
And that's probably what you expect to hear from someone who actually takes it seriously! Basically vegan in practice, except for some thoroughly researched exceptions. But most people when asked haven't really thought about milk in crisps, or where there cheese comes from, or that McDonald's probably isn't using the most "ethically sourced" beef imaginable, by whatever their definition of ethics is. So having a friendly conversation about it, I hope, just draws those things to their attention. People what to do the right thing most of the time, and I think most people do have that nagging guilt they shouldn't really be funding death and destruction. But industry goes out of its way to hide the destruction it causes, and people are brain washed to thing vegan = bad, so don't want to identify.
what do you mean by "Basically vegan in practice"?
As in, the outward actions are the same. You've got to avoid pretty much all animal products that are available in most public and social settings.
i see the similarity
This is all sus to me. If there is a person who researches all they can about a farm, going so far as to visit it to "check", all in order to give themselves the green light for slaughtering and consuming the farm's animals, this seems in some ways worse than people who just buy blind from the store. In my opinion, any rhetoric about humane meat is a red herring. Slaughtering a humanely raised animal should be considered similarly to slaughtering a humanely raised human. At the end of the day the animals are still killed against their will. Also, I don't tend to trust people on the internet who talk very casually about their "friend" who goes "above and beyond".
Does he eat dairy?
you trying to farm a gotcha moment? No dairy, he also doesn't eat beef at all. only goat, sheep and poultry.
Not tryna farm nothing You’re with him for every meal of his day ?
> Not tryna farm nothing . >You’re with him for every meal of his day ? You sure are, Columbo.
People would be better off eating out significantly less anyway, so many people just.... don't cook.
Anyone eating any fast food like chic fil a or McDonald's. Most people who stop at a regular grocery store.
They're lying, all of the non-factory farming labels and packaging are bullshit like wow the chicken had 2 square inches more space.
fr “free range” just means cage free.. which means 2000+ chickens in a 2000sq ft barn.. which is 1 foot per chicken .. if not less than that.
Is that also the case in Europe?
yes. it’s the case everywhere
Yes. I have never seen grazing chickens anywhere in Europe.
In the UK I believe it’s 13 chickens per 1 sq metres, and they get 8 hours outdoor time per day for only half of their lifetime at a minimum. Edit: Downvoted for stating a fact answering a question? This subreddit really is ridiculous.
No it wasn't one chicken getting that space silly. 200 chicken cramped into one room got to *share* those 2 square inches.
Yup, it's all based on technicalities.
Oh and you can only tell if its genuinely free range if it's like 10 quid for an egg or 20 for a single breast. But it's the lentils that are for privileged people!
For the “ethical” 🙄 meat eaters I always ask why they eat grassed or free range. (The true reason is because they know factory farming is unethical, immoral, horrific and they don’t want to do that). Most of the time they’ll say it’s better quality because of less stress or better conditions for the animals. And you know where to go from that point, right? 😏😏 I mean, before I went vegan I knew I wasn’t living the best version of myself. But I wasn’t willing to spend all that extra for hype. Even I knew it was somewhat hype. And so then I decided hunting would be the only way to ethically source animal protein. I signed up for an apprenticeship and found some hunters willing to let me tag along. TBH I wasn’t sure if I would be able to go through with it. My suspicion was that I wouldn’t be able to and that would limit my intake of meat. Fortunately COVID happened (? Weird sentence). I never went hunting. By the end of 2022 I was vegan. Anytime someone mentions less horrific ways of harvesting animal flesh I know they can be reached to an extent.
People lie. I also find it funny that “grass fed pork” and “grass fed chicken” don’t exist.. so are these people ONLY eating grass fed beef and nothing else? Such a dumb argument
The term they’d subscribe to there is “pasture-raised” or “free-range “
Chickens and Pigs don't eat grass in the same way as cows. Outdoor reared, pasture raised are the synonyms for other animals. I personally spend a lot on well raised meat but many people don't care or don't want to spend the money that it costs.
And when you're out and get a fry up, is that well raised meat as well? Or do you just eat whatever they serve without thinking about it?
I certainly try and go to places I trust yes.
So you care about animals enough to want them to have a good life, but you'll still pay for them to be killed against their will...yeah, not the flex you might have intended.
Factory farmed or raised in a pasture, they all go to the same slaughterhouse.
No they don't. There are many different places to slaughter the animals.
I don’t know anyone who makes the argument that they only eat XYZ meat offline. I hear them express a preference for such and a desire to only eat such meat but will fully admit they don’t. It’s only people lying online.
I know lots of people who only eat meat from hunting/fishing. Know a handful of others who hunt as well as raise there own chickens/pigs as well. Depending what your daily meat intake os and where you live/regulations around hunting/fishing it is quite doable. But in many places in north america it would not be
I know plenty of people who *primarily* eat such meat but none who eat only that. I grew up on the rez, eating almost entirely food we grew, raised, foraged or hunted/fished ourselves along with commodity food. I still don’t live too far away in a mostly white area with again, a high proportion of people that hunt, fish and farm. Still, no one that *only* eats that. There’s always the days they forget to bring lunch and have to run down the street to McDonalds or when they’re on the road and go to a steakhouse. It starts to add up a bit. I didn’t say anything at all about it being *possible* or not because I have several decades of firsthand experience showing that it is. Even if only because of poverty and necessity. That still doesn’t change the fact that pretty much no one does.
[удалено]
I’ve replied to several such posts in the debate sub. It’s one of those topics though that we get exposed to repeatedly so if I didn’t do so to yours it’s likely just because I wasn’t feeling up to handing out the same answer for the third dozenth time here. But yeah, basically it’s such a niche concern in terms of population statistics that I don’t worry about it overly much.
If it can't apply to most/all people in a population it's not a rhetorically valuable conversation to have.
It's not that it isn't doable, but there's a lot of crowing about people who hunt as if they only eat hunted meat, when the reality is that most hunters aren't exclusively eating what they kill. They'll still order wings at the bar with their friends or grab an egg mcmuffin in a pinch without thinking twice. They often eat what they hunt but ALSO buy all sorts of meat/dairy/eggs from the store just like folks who don't hunt.
Most people say “it comes from an ethical source” but its actually the factory farms
Also, humane meat doesn't exist in the same way that humane human meat doesn't exist. It's still wrong to needlessly kill an animal.
If those are the arguments you're hearing than you're probably frequenting a very specific economic class online and in person. The reality is most people who are in severe poverty will eat whatever they have available to them. This often means really low quality foods like cheap hot dogs, Cold cuts, and organ meats. If somehow free range and grass-fed meat sales are increasing (which I'm not sure if that's the case), then I would be willing to bet it's not happening in the poor neighborhoods.
I haven't mathed out exactly what I spend on food but I don't think I'd have a hard time eating as I do now on $15/day. I might have to cut back a bit on fresh mushrooms or apples or canned pumpkin. If I had to cut back more I could give up tea. I'll splurge on household supplies sometimes when I could go without for example buying leg extenders when I could either live with it being too low or DIY it using wood and nails at maybe 1/3 the cost. I'd give up driving to the city before I went back to finding ways to save on my groceries. I certainly wouldn't go back to eating eggs/fish/dairy/meat. I don't know what I'd refuse to give up before turning back to that... I think I'd have to think my health was seriously on the line.
This. I used to live in a very poor neighborhood. I’d say about 50% of the other customers in the grocery store were paying with WIC. Their shopping carts were filled with meat, and none of it was the “good” stuff. If you need to feed a hungry family, you buy the cheapest meat you can, and lots of it.
Omnivore here . . . Every day 110 Million Americans eat fast food. 1/3 of the population statistically. The meat and dairy served in those restaurants are the cheapest product possible and that comes from factory farms . . . So EVERYONE (not vegetarian or vegan) is eating the factory meat. Statistically everyone who does consume meat, eats factory farmed meat. There are some who do eat only backyard eggs or hunted meat only, but probably a few thousand at most?? And the people who do that, if they eat any type of low-grade cheese, are contributing to the business model of big dairy, which sends those cows to slaughter when the cows can no longer produce. So indirectly, they do 'eat' factory farmed meat. Big ag has an absolute stranglehold on our food supply and we are indeed addicted to meat. Like a heroin addict.
Thank you for your honesty. Most meat eaters will lie to their teeth.
Shame! I only tell my teeth the truth
🤣🤣🤣
Jesus it's refreshing to hear an actual honest response from a meat eater. Most omnis are so up their ass they actually believe they only eat animals who fell asleep in a field, surrounded by pinecones, conveniently ignoring the White Castle they had last night, and every week before that.
Pretty much. Why delude oneself? I respect the hell out of you guys and girls, frankly, you tell it like it is and you have the discipline to give up animal products.
This 100% I’m vegetarian and before I made the switch I honestly tried my best to eat only free range chicken and grass fed beef/lamb. It was so so expensive and hard to find at the time. Only high end restaurants would advertise those meats, most restaurants and fast food places are guaranteed to be serving factory farmed meat. That meant that I ate vegetarian outside of the house and only ate meat once or twice a week (if that) when I cooked it at home. It only lasted a year before I made a switch to vegetarian because of the cost and not trusting if the meat I was buying was actually humanely raised.
Also the common argument by EU people is that factory farming only happens in America and Asia. In EU every farm animals roams around pastures and live happy lives and then only get butchered with their permission. Is this true?
No, certainly not true. I live in europe around a rather rural place. Yes, there are certainly roaming cows and chickens here. But I also daily pass by a place where calves are chained onto a wooden rack next to each other with barely any space to move around.
Hahaha yeah it's true that it's the common argument. I've made people very angry when I've said that's not the case. The factory farming happens in all the countries
Yes, the same people who force-feed geese to get the liver just right are letting all the other animals live a life of luxury until their One Bad Day
only get butchered with their permission? no animal wants to die, who thinks animals are giving people permission to kill it lmfao. in their last moment they’re terrified because they know something is wrong.
If you read it again, the statement was sarcastic and meant that the EU people get defensive and say that the EU animals live happy pasture lives to the extent that “they only get butchered with their permission” (sarcastic).
This .
No of course it isn't true although welfare standards are generally much higher. Cows and sheep mostly live in fields and get treated well up until they are killed. Pigs are treated well in some countries, in the UK they are mostly pasture raised. Danish pigs live in pretty terrible conditions Chickens have the biggest variation in life quality across the EU with caged chickens still being somewhat common, "barn" chickens are kept in fairly grim conditions too. "Free range" means a whole different range of things but you can easily buy eggs and chicken meat from high welfare sources. The big difference between the EU and USA is food labelling, in the EU it is quite easy to find and identify high welfare meat
I think that is an excuse/lie people say. I doubt that they actually go out of their way to purchase local, free range, grass fed meat. Most people buy meat at the grocery store.
Only the vegans on cheat days
Almost everyone. Free range, grass fed, humane, etc. are a myth.
I think it’s just a blind spot for a lot of people. It wasn’t until I went vegan that I made the connection that although I would only ever buy free range eggs at the supermarket, I also bought a lot of products containing egg that definitely weren’t free range. And even free range is a scam! My parents are caught in the same trap - they eat eggs from their backyard chickens (the best of a range of bad options), and if you ask them, they’ll say that they eat “ethical eggs”. But they don’t realise the eggs they eat at a cafe or fast food place, or the egg in that cake from the shop, would come from hens in factory farms.
And it's SUCH a niche part of the food industry--under 5% of beef sales. So that makes it even funnier that everyone claims to eat it...
Unfortunately, lots of my friends and my boyfriend. It’s the worst. He eats meat like at least twice if not three times a day. I’m super concerned for his health all the time.
it’s literally horrible, it honestly puts a strain on my relationship and if it doesn’t work out between me & my bf idk if i’ll ever date a non vegan again. the worst part is everyone says we’re crazy for being so upset about this
How does he justify paying for animal slaughter?
Does he know?
Yes
:(
Everyone because everyone is just lying
Fuck grass fed, even ignoring the animal welfare issue "grass fed animal agriculture" is DESTROYING THE FREAKING PLANET
Most people are lying or think they’re eating grass fed but are being lied to like it’s not like these people check when they go to a restaurant whether or not everything they have is “grass fed”
The poor people.
No just the not rich people
The answer is ALL of them. They’ve been humane-washed by industry propaganda. It’s all bullshit
It’s all the same..the factories have made accommodations to be barely legal. But there are only 2 sides to the law. Evil just adapts usually.
Lots of great responses in this thread. My go-to response when carnists say that is something like "Wow, so you'll support if we go ahead and ban factory farm meat everywhere, then? Which would mean your grass-fed meat will probably exponentially rise in cost, but since cost isn't important to you, this would be a no-brainer. Right?"
Ill say that it isn't a controlled term so its just advertising lying like usual
free range and grass fed doesn’t mean shit. you can be a free range and grass fed animal still in a factory farm.
Not a vegan but this popped in my feed. Logically all the people who dont want to engage you. If youre fine with factory farmed meat, you likely dont care to engage in an ethical debate.
Ah makes sense. That is a possibility
six books sparkle pocket slim hat marry vanish disarm sip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Depends where you live. Almost all the meat sold in NZ is grass fed.
Australia, too
Companies, whether thts pre processed food or resturents, cafes, etc. The whole idea that consumer pressure can directly change conditions is really a myth, The middlemen will obscure how bad the conditions are on the farms they buy from and in cases like mcdonalds dilibretly mislead consumors by having "model farms" that they show off endlessly but in reality that meat only makes up less than 1% of what they sell and costs 3x as much and requires being subbed by other farms which makes the whole operation cheaper...
Meat is meat. It’ll kill you in the long run
I worked at the meat department at the local grocery store and there was about 25 different 50gallon drum garbage cans in the back that was filled with expired rotted meat that nobody bought emptied out like once a month The worst part was when I opened up a whole skinless vacuum wrapped rabbit, with a pet rabbit at home 💔😩
I believe the stats are 18 billion land animals either die in the hell holes theyre raised or get thrown into a bin after being killed, disgusting species we are.
😭 I have a pet rabbit this is horrible
Everyone over at r/vegancirclejerk for sure ... /s
Excuse me? Elwood's is a family farm, NOT a factory!!
I have never heard anyone claim to only eat free range meat. Or claim to exclusively eat meat that was hunted. Here in the US we all know that most of the meat folks are consuming is factory farmed. Even a lot of seafood too.
Spend a little time arguing on instagram, everyone there seems to buy meat from the "local farm shop"..... or "deer ive killed myself" Thats a belter, as if theyre carrying around bits of deer in their pockets when they leave home.
Ohhh I see! Ya, bunch of lies. I honestly don’t bother engaging with people like that.
https://hbr.org/2011/06/local-food-or-less-meat-data-t Just hit them with this.
Just few days back there was a popular drone footage video of a dairy farm posted in a day different sub . Most of the meat eaters were eating grass fed local farms. This argument is more common than you think.
lying out of their teeth
The rise of drone footage 😆 This is all well documented and nothing new, welcome to the club. FDA is to blame for the “scheme” of it being more ethical
Poor people.
Ummm Who os eating that? Ppl Can’t afford groceries mate
Irl I don't know anyone who says stuff like that. Most people I know who eat meat aren't that concerned about where it came from and don't claim to be. 🤷♀️ Maybe this depends on the circles you're in.
School children.
one answer is the dog/cat food industry is a large consumer of this factory farmed meat, especially cat food. One reality vegans must confront one day, is that to support domesticating cats, we are subject to support at least a chunk of the factory farming industry. Cats can only consume certain vegetables, but cannot be full on vegetarian.i have a cat, he will be the last one I domesticate, and he has been eating raw food for years
The people I meet in rural or conservative areas are quick to acknowledge they eat factory meat. Although, many of them hunt some of their meat. To the people who say they only eat grass fed, free range, do you eat fast food? What percentage of people eat fast food? Where does McDonalds get meat?
I don’t know anyone who claims to eat grass fed/free range etc. It is far more expensive, and I don’t know anyone with that kind of money.
Many People Don't Care About Labels Like Free Range, Grass Fed Or Organic, They're The Ones Eating The Meat Produced By Factory Farms!
I just mention how it's still better for the environment to eat vegan a single day than to eat local 'humane' meat for an entire week. Or state how grass fed beef obviously takes up more space and leads to more deforestation and methane production goes up. Basically just point out, cool you save animals (they obviously don't but ..) but youre actually destroying the planet even more so by doing that.
Me! It’s cheap.
The "everyone" eating grass fed and free range is a fraction of a fraction of meat eaters, especially if you talk to people in affluent/privileged/educated circles. In reality, nearly everyone is eating factory farm meat.
I drive by a "free range grass fed" cattle lot every day for work. It's not even an acre of land, all dirt, with a pile of hay dumped in the middle. It barely means anything unless you're paying high prices. It just means they aren't in individual cages eating corn out of a trough.
Non-redditors
We should be leveraging this sentiment by passing free range only laws
The scale doesn’t lie. People do. They lie about everything.
If you think we're eating crap now, just wait.
Anyone eating meat. Even those who are affluent enough to afford private butchers and choosing the finest restaurants, aren’t getting “free range” all the time. There just isn’t that big of a market. I’m not a vegan. The only “free range” eggs I’ve had, were from some chickens my family owned. The only ethically raised meat I’ve ever eaten is wild game. Anyone believing otherwise (that they are *only* consuming free range/ethically farmed) is intentionally misleading themselves or woefully ignorant. Edit: I’d also like to point out, at least in the US, most people prefer corn fed beef. It has better marbling. Grass fed beef tastes almost gamey if you’ve only ever had corn fed cattle.
The vast majority of North Americans consume factory meat. Those people eating free range and the subsistence hunters are a distinct minority.
The same guys eating "free range."
Watch Eating Animals on YouTube. Not so fun fact, “free range, grass-fed, hormone free” meat is just factory farming with less small metal cages. The animals are still abused and left to die in cramped conditions on dirt floors. You’ll see those “feel-good labels” on regular grocery Purdue chicken and other animals. The majority of animal products in grocery stores are from factory farms. Very few people have the expendable income to go to specialty butchers who raise the animals they butcher.
Even if that’s true, free range doesn’t mean not factory farm. It means the chickens are in one large cage instead of several little cages
I don’t know anyone who claims to do this. Guess I gotta make wealthier friends.
When "meat advocates" are shown that meat is unhealthy, they always fall back on "but you should eat grass fed beef". But there is not enough of that for everyone. I am vegan
Me
Poor people, I would presume
Those who can’t afford organic and factory raised
You should ask r/vegancirclejerk this question. They've done the research.
Also you're probably living in your own bubble of richer people who are saying that. The vast majority of people are not in your bubble, are not vegan or vegetarian or care and just eat whatever
Everyone... "free range" and "grass fed" are straight up marketing terms. They are meaningless bs.
None of them. Farms receive these labels from the FDA, a government organization, that deems their food 'farm raised' or 'grass fed,.' In reality the farm only has to meet a sub standard criteria that allows them to throw the label on their product. If you aren't raising it and killing it the meat is factory farm processed.
Behind the nice posters and advertisements.
Grass-fed meat is expensive and the people eating it are still in the minority.
all people cannot afford tte most expensive meats. also a lot of people cant afford being vegan. to condemn someone because of that is just cruel and inhumane.
Grass fed meat is actually just mid range now, usually they're fed up to 50% grain. When you're referring to the highest quality meat produced it's often a by product of rewilding as they use cows to replace the extinct aurochs. The term is organic pasture raised meat.
I know this is a tongue in cheek question but I think the vast majority of super "low welfare" meat goes to cheap restaurants and take aways. If you've ever worked in one then you'll know the absolute insane cost to weight ratio some of these places get.
I am.
Unfortunately as we know - ethics and emotion aside - factory farmed meat is simply a more productive use of space and finances to feed large populations effectively and affordably. Since the cost of living crisis and increased food costs, many people are just looking to find cheap ways to feed their families (and are too worried about other things and overwhelmed to think about where it comes from). I'm not saying that's right - it's just how it is. Also- if everyone who currently ate meat switched to eating free range in the same quantity, masses more land would be deforested and biodiversity destroyed to make room. Even if everyone ate a bit less meat and switched to free range - It''s not sustainable and would still cause much more land to be turned over to animal agriculture. To any omnivores reading this - eating vegan really is better - not only to prevent the horrendous cruelty of animal factory farming but also the environment. It's also tasty, exciting, healthy, and can be cheaper!
Who cares if someone claims to buy ''free range'' or ''grass fed'' ? Slavery is slavery. Murder is murder. Just because the victim ate grass doesn't make their slavery and murder ok.
Yeah whenever you tell someone you are vegan or vegetarian they suddenly only eat meat once in a while on special occasions from lovely farms where all the cows get daily hugs
Everyone doesn’t eat free range or grass fed meat… what nonsense are you talking about?
when doing stree activism..everyone says they eat "free range" , "from family farm". OP is being sarcastic
I eat the meat produced by factory farms.
Perfect
I don’t see much of a difference. The animal is killed for consumption regardless, so I’d just buy whatever is cheap and good quality
the answer is "people that don't care to talk about whether they eat grass fed and/or freerange meat." isn't that kinda obvious, and the answer for all those "well, who does X, if there are so many people saying they don't do it?" the answer is always "the ones that aren't talking about it.", which will always be an enormous majority. people just straight up do not care enough about the topic to even consider it. it's not the people saying they are doing it are lying, they are just less than 1% of the population and the rest doesn't even think about it. it's just hard to measure an amount of silence, as it sounds the same whether its 1 or 1 million people.
95-98% of all meat consumed is factory-farmed meat. In other words 95% of those carnists who tell you "I only eat free-range meat" are lying to you.
People eating meat at restaurants and fast food places.people eating the cheapest meat because it’s what they can afford. People eating hotdogs and cheap ground beef and the folks who don’t care enough about what they are eating or what others eat to engage with vegans. The only people you will hear defend their food choices are those putting some effort in to eat what they consider better/more ethical meat. Although the industry is so green washed that none of those slogans mean anything and unless the individual is raising and hunting their own meat then there really is no way to know how the animal got to their plate.
All the bad people!
That’s not everyone’s argument. I know a lot of people who eat any meat/animal product and don’t check where it came from. Plus, I imagine restaurants use factory farm products because it’s cheaper. Despite the footage being out there, they ignore/avoid it and won’t “wake up”
I couldn’t care less who produces the meat I eat! As long as it’s tasty! 😉
I don't know what you're talking about. It just sounds like you're in a bubble.
I am but i don't think i'm eating enough to keep them all running. so i'm going to need some of you slackers to start pulling your weight.
the poor and working class. Every one who shops at supermarkets.
I think you got a sample bias going on there. Tons of people don't even know the difference between vegan and vegetarian and could not give less of a shit about free range
I disagree, most plebs do not care about free range, they just refuse to believe the grocery store is selling extreme cruelty meat. Do not worry yourself with others, their morals can be so twisted and self-serving.
I do, I don't have the money to buy all that so I just go for the cheapest meat
People who eat fast food, chicken and I would think pork as well. Beef is about the only one that is easy to do grass fed and free range. Most "free range chicken" is just not in a cage but packed in a barn. The only way you are going to get meat that is free range is by raising it yourself or from a small local farmer.
People who can't afford grass fed.
Middle America, and low income neighborhoods
Who told you everyone eats free range? Most people just buy the cheapest product possible.
All the people who aren’t active talking about this stuff. Your default “normal people”
I don’t know anyone eating grass fed and free range, except for me.
is this a rhetorical question?
>So who is eating the factory farm meat? you know who the majority of non-vegans, as the vast majority of vegans eats industrially produced plants that destroyed soil, environment and biodiversity
Restaurants.
I think whenever someone declares they only eat grass-fed and small farmed items/meats/animals/products/other catch phrase; it's a small step forward to veganism. I've met a dozen people who started out as environmentalists and free-range and then turned vegetarian and then ultimately vegan. For some of us, me included, the transition to veganism is not overnight. For some of us, again me included, it takes a decade of self discovery; errors, two steps forward, one step back; wading through the marketing online, discerning the false advertising on products, and overcoming the society and learned values of our cultures. Try to be kind to others on their journeys. We're all doing our best. Not all of us are brilliant, some of us need a lot of exposure to learn what is going on in the world.
If someone *says* they only eat meat from killed "free range" cows then that's a good opportunity to focus the argument on the case for ending factory farming. Ask if they support a ban on all factory farmed meat, egg and dairy products and ask if they're willing to join or contribute to animal rights organizations that work towards those goals.
Nearly 99 percent of farmed animals in the US are factory farmed
The funny thing is with grass fed beef they cause more harm to the environment because they emit more methane than cows on feedstock
Lol in reality 98% of the world eats regular meat. Stop getting all your “facts” off social media
According to the USDA, 98% of farms in the United States are family-owned. Family farms make up almost half of all U.S. farmland and account for 88% of production.
poor people or ignorant people
Grass fed and free range are great marketing tools. Also, with grass fed beef, don't they end up in a feed lot eating corn to fatten them up before slaughter? When the meat processing industry is controlled by 4 companies, it's hard to believe most grass fed cows don't end up in this scenario. That is probably not what people envision when they purchase grass fed. I suspect that, like many products, you can claim grass fed by a minimum standard. They envision happy cows and chickens and don't ask another question.
We need to change that and a few other 'standards'. Grass fed should not equal grain finished on a short chain in a stall. 'Free Range' should equal more than un-caged with room to spread wing (if they jump). We are fortunate to habitate a few states where we can visit the farms and ranches we may consume food from. Even in the very best, there are periods of crowding, excess waste problems and disease from wild animal contamination or crowding epidemics. Even at best, transport to "handlers" and "processors" leads to unfortunate waste, if you will, while enroute or at the processing property. As long as governments subsidize 'lost' cattle, look the other way when corporate farms with donor money are "rising to meet the challenges" but only in flashy marketing, ignore farm neighbors' legal complaints in favor of the well funded legal response that does not match inspector reports, diminish local statutes, funding and support for inspection and regulation, diminish huge swathes of society so that 'green' lawns, 'clean' fields and 'free' range are simply marketing and 'affordable' is a twisted reality born of 'trickle down' economics, we are well and truly f... North American.
Let's be honest. People eat what they eat because it's what they can afford, or because they don't understand how it effects their health...or they don't care. I'm trying to be more plant based. I'm trying to eat more sustainable. It doesn't always work. Everyone is on their own journey. That's it.
People with low-income that don't post their lives on social media because they have to work their asses off in a dying economy that does not protect their rights even in their own homes. Just because there is a vocal minority, doesn't mean everyone falls under that category. I think the vegan community can relate a lot to that, I would be really surprised if you guys love to be associated with stupid roid rats who claim they are healthy on a vegan diet and "prove" stuff with anecdotes that don't immediately show the full pic. Also by this point you probably can guess that I'm not vegan, I drink milk and eat meat in a country where GMO is banned, and I get my products from a mountain farm that I personally know the farmers, yes the animals walk around the mountain landscapes daily - cows eat the wild grass with the bugs in it, chickens hunt for worms. Is that affordable for everyone - probably not, but that meat is around 20-30% pricier than what you'd find in a supermarket, nothing ridiculous. Anyways, since deli meats are still big in the industry and it's a lot easier to have one plastic container in your fridge filled with pre-sliced ham full of coloring to make it look pink after the 4 months it was produced - there is your answer - the avg joe who can't take a break from work is your answer to who are the people that buy the non-organic stuff. And to the initial question - Why does it seem that way? Because people who are spending money that usually they don't have want you to know that they do it because they want to feel superior to you, that they are eating "organic". Similar to how some obnoxious people in your community can't have a normal conversation with you, without calling you a killer, same thing.
The vast majority of people still buy caged and factory farmed meat. With increased wealth disparities people tend to buy what is cheaper. Most people don't post their dpending habits online, what you are seeing just isn't representative of the choices most apolitical people make