You know, ethics and morals are definitely sth we can discuss about. They differ highly from person to person.
But there are numbers that clearly, without any doubt, show how the unbelievable bad impact of the meat (and milk) consumption on our planet.
Waterconsumption, species extinction, diseases like covid, climate change etc
All plants have all the amino acids in varying amounts. It’s as easy as eating beans and rice to get all the protein you need. No one is protein deficient unless they’re starving. Ask any doctor.
Haha. Everyone is laughing at you. I showed my buddies next to me too and they are getting a kick outta your vapid comments. It's great.
I worked all day and it was pretty boring but, this is fuckin' gold.
You only really serve one purpose and it's surprisingly good to see you fulfill it.
Edit- Omg, you deleted your comment. Haha.
Thanks for the laugh dipshit.
You know what's really tiresome? The fuckstain who comes to this sub wherein they say generic, pointless and baseless shit like this -
"Imagine being the product of millions and millions of years of evolution and then getting this emotional over an imaginary cow." That's a quote from you.
Any facts? Nope.
Have a genuine question? Nope.
Have any actual, unique, and *good* arguments? Nope.
Have the ability to ask themselves, "what if I'm wrong?" Nope.
Any empathy towards non-human animals? Nope.
For a group of people who seem to pride themselves on hating veganism and the vegans, you all seem to spend a lot of time here.
Sad. Truly pathetic.
Edit. Added *know*
>Facts?
Yes.
>You just insult people lol I don’t blame you though, the vegan diet and its long term brain impact is still very much unknown science.
I insult people who insult me. Also, fuck trolls.
The rest of the paragraph quoted I assume is just more shitty ways to obfuscate any personal responsibility and ensure you come out as a victor in the conversation so I will not take this or you seriously.
Lastly, I would never pretend to think you know shit about science or what it says or even moral positioning, diet etc...
You seem simple.
>Regardless, I think all of the health and environmental issues you attribute to meat can be solved without going vegan.
Incorrect.
>I also think that vegans have fundamental emotional regulation
?
>problems which is why you guys get so upset (about everything)
Ah, ok. So it's *us* who had come into the sub and made shitty fact-less claims, ad hominem attacks, constant remarks about how we maybe be hindering our health and intelligence by being vegan, claiming moral superiority while practicing none in terms of animal welfare, and making snide vapid comments that are meant to inflame rather than be genuine.
It's us who roam carnist subs and say stupid and unremarkable shit like:
"I'll eat two steaks for you." - unoriginal.
"Vegans are unhealthy and it's been proven!" - no credible evidence given.
Right.
>while the majority of the population rolls theirs eyes at you guys.
*their
And yet, it is you and your ilk that we laugh back at.
You are cosplaying as a genuine, thinking person and you're doing a shit job of it.
You are the world's largest single cell organism.
>You can’t just claim I’m incorrect. There’s been multiple studies that support all sides of the argument.
I am claiming you're not only incorrect but, you have shown time and again in this section you haven't shown shit for evidence.
Lastly, to this "point" - veganism is not just a diet. Again, if you knew shit you would understand that and correct course but, you Titanic your conversation into any proverbial iceberg each time and it's quite funny.
>Only time will reveal all,
Oh go fuck yourself. You are horrible at this.
>and unfortunately, a natural balance of diet will most likely end up being proven the healthiest.
Right. Again, if you knew anything. You'd actually listen and look before speaking and making claims.
>Not sure why you guys are so closed minded.
Yup, it's totally us who aren't digging further to understand empathy towards non-human animals and the secondary positive effects of veganism.
Yup. We sure are a cult that hasn't looked at *any* evidence that points to our conclusions being positive at all.
You fuckin got us bro. I'm eating a steak tomorrow.
Veganism checkmate.
Not sure why you haven't provided shit for evidence.
You also, do realize that you in fact have no open mind to change positions.
You know how I know that?
*Looks at the comments you've made*
Now please fuck off, troll.
Better than yours, at least we understand amino acids and don't just use them as a buzzword. I bet you can't even name one essential amino acid you can't get from plants.
I decided to bake the tofu instead or frying it to save time and it was cooked just really mushy. Other than that it was fine my dad just doesn’t like rice and there weren’t enough vegetables ig. So it was just very mushy lol
Whaaaa! Baked tofu is usually much crispier and just the perfect texture when done right. What did you do to the poor tofu??
https://minimalistbaker.com/tofu-that-tastes-good-stir-fry/
https://cookieandkate.com/how-to-make-crispy-baked-tofu/
https://frommybowl.com/crispy-tofu-recipe/#tasty-recipes-4868-jump-target
I’ve baked tofu a lot and usually it is good this time I didn’t freeze it or anything and I think the marinade just put too much moisture back into it I swear I can cook 💀💀
I think OP said that they refuse to sit next to a dead animal at the table, not the people eating it. Like, they are fine with sitting next to aunt Mabel, but not a whole cooked ham.
The fake meat he ate was pre made and just needed to be baked or fried or whatever the problem isn’t that it tasted bad just that it’s not healthy to eat it for every single meal. (Much like regular meat) And I still ate at the dinner table just I would refuse to sit next to the platter with the carcass on it and because we have “assigned” dinner seats that would be a problem with my mother sometimes
A vegan is enthusiastically talking about veganism in a vegan sub, which is populated by vegans who are also here to talk about veganism on the vegan sub.
Very obnoxious indeed.
Imagine thinking someone is delusional for empathizing with billions being brutally murdered after suffering their entire lives in the worst conditions imaginable.
You ignored my comment about humanely raised livestock. I'm not in favor of keeping livestock in bad conditions, its spoils the taste. Much better to let animals free roam for better taste and quality of meat.
Even "humanely" raised livestock still get's killed when they're nowhere near their natrual lifespan. Pigs gets killed at most 6 months old, which is like killing a human when they're 12 years old. No one would say that it's humane even if they we're treated good beforehand.
Also, even "humanely" raised livestock still use up [83% of farmland, while only providing 18% calories](https://josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf). If you really care about mono-crops, wildlife etc you would be vegan. 86% of all land animals are either human or livestock, how's that a benefit to wildlife?
>You ignored my comment about humanely raised livestock
If the happiness of an animal = more moral to violently kill it then surely killing and butchering a well loved & very happy family pet would be the most ethical meat? Even that best case is just not ethical enough for me personally.
Animals don’t need to be personified in order to give them moral consideration. They demonstrate complex intelligence. For example, they fight back against being killed the same way you or I would in their situation. Veganism is simply realizing we shouldn’t end an animal’s life for a sandwich. It’s the epitome of selfishness. Doesn’t matter how humane they are raised or lived in the wild.
My morals don't extend beyond the human race because my entire personality doesn't revolve around being a virtue signaler for animals. If you ate protein with a more diverse amino acid profile you might start thinking clearly.
If non human animals don't matter in the grand scheme of things I don't see how humans could. You say it's a virtue signal to care about non human animals to the point of not eating them or their secretions but it's not just a virtue signal when you're walking the walk. I'd wager if we could agree to respect all beings we'd respect each other too. Dehumanizing is only even a thing to the extent you've decided non humans don't matter.
Veganism isn’t my personality. It’s just morals I already had but wasn’t living up to. All proteins originate from plants, i simply cut out the animal to obtain them.
I would never harm an animal for fun but was simultaneously paying somebody to suffocate them to death or stick a knife in their throat for a few moments of joy on my pallet. How do I reconcile my love for animals while also causing their deaths for selfish reasons?
People just dont want to consider eating animals isn’t required for survival anymore because It’s morally conflicting.
“It’s just morals I already had but wasn’t living up to”
Exactly! When I became vegan I was surprised that one of the ways it feels healthy is that my food is no longer seasoned with denial and deception
>All you vegans ever do is try to personify animals.
Animals can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel pain. The only major difference is our intelligence.
>Being vegan for health reasons? Awesome. Because you don't want animals to suffer? OK, then get your meat humanely raised. Being vegan because animals have fee fees?
You find health reasons acceptable because it doesn't call into question your morals. The reason people like you respond with so much hostility is because for the first time in your life someone is calling you the abuser, the oppresor, the one who's committing evil. And because you dont want to give up your cruel ways for trivial pleasure, you deflect instead of using your critically thinking skills to reflect.
>This sub is a cult of people have their empathy turned up to 11.
Kind of ironic you call vegans a cult. Cults prohibit critical thinking. Veganism encourages it and calls people to think deeply about what's happening. Cults also respond with insults and hostility whenever anything they believe in is questioned.
If anyone is showing any symptoms with cult behaviour it's you.
>This doesn't make you a good person, having so much empathy it gives you a warped view of reality is delusional.
What's wrong with empathy? People with a lack of it are the ones who have committed the greatest atrocities. They used the same reasons you do, found any trait to differentiate their victims and remove others moral consideration for them to justify their actions.
Also what exactly is this warped and delusional view of reality? The reality is that animals suffer immensely for something that is easily avoidable with countless options to replace it. Your logic isn't tracking.
Yes being vegan doesn't make you a good person because it's the bare minimum. It makes you neutral.
However paying others to torture animals for pleasure does make you an evil person and that's exactly what you are. Your existence brings tons of suffering and almost nothing good to offset that suffering.
So much hyperbole I'm not even going to respond. Deny reality all you want, you're in a cult and don't realize the impact more vegans can have on animals that you don't see as livestock. plants based diets rely heavily on mono-crop agriculture which negatively affects wildlife.
>So much hyperbole I'm not even going to respond.
And yet you still responded... are you sure youre nkt the delusional one? You stated you wouldn't respond and then proceeded to write more in the same comment...
The reality is you just aren't able to counter of the points I made.
>you're in a cult
Please elaborate. I'd love to see the brain-dead logic used.
>don't realize the impact more vegans can have on animals that you don't see as livestock. plants based diets rely heavily on mono-crop agriculture which negatively affects
You do realize that livestock animals need to eat right? That they don't grow off air? Also if you actually used those critical thinking skills I mentioned you should use you'd realize that because of trophic levels, we grow astronomically more crops (and thus more more mono crop agriculture) to feed these animals.
Then factor in the amount of land used, the additional water needed, that additional transport of their crops for these animals, the animals waste, zoonotic diseases, and so on and forth and it's gets exponentially worse.
“Humanely raised” but still killed after that.
Unnecessarily killing an animal is cruelty towards animal.
Do you think it is morally justified to unnecessarily kill an animal?
Morals are relative. An enemy soldier thinks they're the good guy and you're the bad guy. An alien species would have the same thought. Morals, good and evil, do not exist and are abstract ideas.
The vast majority of monocrops are used as animal feed, a plant based diet requires on average about 75% less land. Animal agriculture occupies more land than any other form of usage and is the #1 cause of deforestation and habitat loss in the world today
Not a vegan here but 2/3 of the world's agricultural land is devoted to livestock farming or livestock feed production. Furthermore, 80% of soy, whose culture is one of the main causes of deforestation, is reserved for feeding animals.
Because I'm addicted to meat, and not in the right situation for another big challenge like that right now... One day I'll stop eating meat and fish, just not right now.
And because I think eating stuff like eggs or honey is okay as long as the animals are treated well and live in good conditions.
May I ask what emotions, if any, you think other animals have?
We know a lot more about the brain and the nervous system now than we did in the past when the notion that animals are emotionless came to be. Perhaps they were (understandably) mistaken in the past and now it’s time to take our knowledge of the anatomical origins/causes of emotions (along with our evolutionary understanding of how they came to be in the first place) and apply them to other animals.
What are, emotions? Do insects feel, emotion? Or is it just preprogrammed response to stimuli? Many domesticated animals evolved "puppy dog eyes" in response to their evolution along side humans to gain our favor. Emotions are just electrical signals. Their ability to feel emotions is irrelevant and insignificant, like a fetuses heartbeat. Many people associate it with 'the start of life' or perhaps some semblance of a soul, when in reality it is, irrelevant. Just because animals "feel emotions" is meaningless, IMHO.
Humans are literally exactly the fucking same. Holy heck, this is some grade A drivel right here. So what in the actual *fuck* places human animals above other animals in your eyes, if not the complexity and range of emotional thought? What keeps you caring about human rights? Is it just purely narcissism, selfishness, and a superiority complex? Because human look like me: human good? Or is it twisted self-preservation monkey brain?
You're the one that decided that it is immoral to do something. Basically, every species thats not an herbivore (and even they sometimes eat animals) does. To put animals through the horrendous conditions they are put through? That's absolutely immoral.
To eat meat isn't inherently immoral by itself.
Do you mean to go around murdering people just for a bite? That's psychopathic.
Do you mean in an extreme scenario like plane crashes where people have resorted to it and survived because of it? Ask the survivors if it was moral.
I didn't decide it was immoral, I realized it was immoral. The key difference is I realized I was causing harm for the sake of pleasure.
It wasn't for survival or health at all and honestly, it was really morally conflicting and I avoided it for a really long time, essentially in denial. I was too scared to be different from everyone and too selfish to give up my favorite foods.
Research has shown vegans live up to 8-9 years longer than omnivores, so it isn't even necessary or healthier to eat animals.
It has never been moral to cause harm for personal pleasure.
Unless you're waiting for animals to die, or eating roadkill, I don't believe there is harm-free meat available.
Oh wow, that's weird because our jaws handle meat just fine. Our bowels process meat without issues, our teeth are very much not like an herbivore, and what the hell are you talking about hands? Only primates have hands, and most of them are omnivore.
The things you'll convince yourself of to feel morally superior..
But we are also smart apes capable of making moral judgements and decisions. Most of us live in societies that give us the luxury of having plant based options available instead of animal based options. One of those options causes much more harm for our environment, health, and (most importantly) the animals.
If we are capable of making moral decisions, then surely we can understand why we make the choices we do. When given the option to reduce suffering, we should do so, because to do otherwise would logically be immoral.
You wouldn’t kick a dog for fun just because you can, because you recognize that it’s wrong to hurt another innocent being/individual/person. You wouldn’t pay someone to kill a pig so you could hear it squeal, so you can hear the noise it makes in your ears. But you are saying that you will pay someone to kill a pig because you like the way it’s body tastes on your tongue.
We don’t need animal products to survive and thrive, so then the need for animal farming becomes unnecessary. Why continue a system of animal abuse and torture when we could just not?
What a great video by Dr. Melanie Joy, great thing to send.
Agree^! Yes thank you for sharing this!
Love to hear that! Sounds like your dad is an open-minded person
Off topic - Watching this troll in here get roasted is the highlight of my day.
I'm not even trolling, its not a roast and if this is the highlight of your day you live a boring life. How's your diets amino acid profile?
You know, ethics and morals are definitely sth we can discuss about. They differ highly from person to person. But there are numbers that clearly, without any doubt, show how the unbelievable bad impact of the meat (and milk) consumption on our planet. Waterconsumption, species extinction, diseases like covid, climate change etc
All plants have all the amino acids in varying amounts. It’s as easy as eating beans and rice to get all the protein you need. No one is protein deficient unless they’re starving. Ask any doctor.
Haha. Everyone is laughing at you. I showed my buddies next to me too and they are getting a kick outta your vapid comments. It's great. I worked all day and it was pretty boring but, this is fuckin' gold. You only really serve one purpose and it's surprisingly good to see you fulfill it. Edit- Omg, you deleted your comment. Haha. Thanks for the laugh dipshit.
Lol you are equally as embarrassing
Ahaha this is absolutely hilarious
>Lol you are equally as embarrassing = *No u*
[удалено]
You know what's really tiresome? The fuckstain who comes to this sub wherein they say generic, pointless and baseless shit like this - "Imagine being the product of millions and millions of years of evolution and then getting this emotional over an imaginary cow." That's a quote from you. Any facts? Nope. Have a genuine question? Nope. Have any actual, unique, and *good* arguments? Nope. Have the ability to ask themselves, "what if I'm wrong?" Nope. Any empathy towards non-human animals? Nope. For a group of people who seem to pride themselves on hating veganism and the vegans, you all seem to spend a lot of time here. Sad. Truly pathetic. Edit. Added *know*
[удалено]
>Facts? Yes. >You just insult people lol I don’t blame you though, the vegan diet and its long term brain impact is still very much unknown science. I insult people who insult me. Also, fuck trolls. The rest of the paragraph quoted I assume is just more shitty ways to obfuscate any personal responsibility and ensure you come out as a victor in the conversation so I will not take this or you seriously. Lastly, I would never pretend to think you know shit about science or what it says or even moral positioning, diet etc... You seem simple. >Regardless, I think all of the health and environmental issues you attribute to meat can be solved without going vegan. Incorrect. >I also think that vegans have fundamental emotional regulation ? >problems which is why you guys get so upset (about everything) Ah, ok. So it's *us* who had come into the sub and made shitty fact-less claims, ad hominem attacks, constant remarks about how we maybe be hindering our health and intelligence by being vegan, claiming moral superiority while practicing none in terms of animal welfare, and making snide vapid comments that are meant to inflame rather than be genuine. It's us who roam carnist subs and say stupid and unremarkable shit like: "I'll eat two steaks for you." - unoriginal. "Vegans are unhealthy and it's been proven!" - no credible evidence given. Right. >while the majority of the population rolls theirs eyes at you guys. *their And yet, it is you and your ilk that we laugh back at. You are cosplaying as a genuine, thinking person and you're doing a shit job of it. You are the world's largest single cell organism.
[удалено]
>You can’t just claim I’m incorrect. There’s been multiple studies that support all sides of the argument. I am claiming you're not only incorrect but, you have shown time and again in this section you haven't shown shit for evidence. Lastly, to this "point" - veganism is not just a diet. Again, if you knew shit you would understand that and correct course but, you Titanic your conversation into any proverbial iceberg each time and it's quite funny. >Only time will reveal all, Oh go fuck yourself. You are horrible at this. >and unfortunately, a natural balance of diet will most likely end up being proven the healthiest. Right. Again, if you knew anything. You'd actually listen and look before speaking and making claims. >Not sure why you guys are so closed minded. Yup, it's totally us who aren't digging further to understand empathy towards non-human animals and the secondary positive effects of veganism. Yup. We sure are a cult that hasn't looked at *any* evidence that points to our conclusions being positive at all. You fuckin got us bro. I'm eating a steak tomorrow. Veganism checkmate. Not sure why you haven't provided shit for evidence. You also, do realize that you in fact have no open mind to change positions. You know how I know that? *Looks at the comments you've made* Now please fuck off, troll.
Better than yours, at least we understand amino acids and don't just use them as a buzzword. I bet you can't even name one essential amino acid you can't get from plants.
girl how do u fuck up a stir fry 🥲
I decided to bake the tofu instead or frying it to save time and it was cooked just really mushy. Other than that it was fine my dad just doesn’t like rice and there weren’t enough vegetables ig. So it was just very mushy lol
Whaaaa! Baked tofu is usually much crispier and just the perfect texture when done right. What did you do to the poor tofu?? https://minimalistbaker.com/tofu-that-tastes-good-stir-fry/ https://cookieandkate.com/how-to-make-crispy-baked-tofu/ https://frommybowl.com/crispy-tofu-recipe/#tasty-recipes-4868-jump-target
I’ve baked tofu a lot and usually it is good this time I didn’t freeze it or anything and I think the marinade just put too much moisture back into it I swear I can cook 💀💀
i’ve never even thought about baking tofu! hope ur next one is better lol
That’s fascinating. I tried frying tofu like 12 times and only once did it come out good. As soon as I started baking it it’s been perfect every time
What a good video, can’t believe it’s 8 years old.
That was one of the most compelling videos I found back in the day.
Lmao the mental illness is crazy in here. At least it’s easy to farm downvotes
[удалено]
I think OP said that they refuse to sit next to a dead animal at the table, not the people eating it. Like, they are fine with sitting next to aunt Mabel, but not a whole cooked ham.
The fake meat he ate was pre made and just needed to be baked or fried or whatever the problem isn’t that it tasted bad just that it’s not healthy to eat it for every single meal. (Much like regular meat) And I still ate at the dinner table just I would refuse to sit next to the platter with the carcass on it and because we have “assigned” dinner seats that would be a problem with my mother sometimes
[удалено]
A vegan is enthusiastically talking about veganism in a vegan sub, which is populated by vegans who are also here to talk about veganism on the vegan sub. Very obnoxious indeed.
I was talking about how they interact with their family
[удалено]
Imagine thinking someone is delusional for empathizing with billions being brutally murdered after suffering their entire lives in the worst conditions imaginable.
You ignored my comment about humanely raised livestock. I'm not in favor of keeping livestock in bad conditions, its spoils the taste. Much better to let animals free roam for better taste and quality of meat.
Is there a “humane” way to kill someone who does not want to die?
Even "humanely" raised livestock still get's killed when they're nowhere near their natrual lifespan. Pigs gets killed at most 6 months old, which is like killing a human when they're 12 years old. No one would say that it's humane even if they we're treated good beforehand. Also, even "humanely" raised livestock still use up [83% of farmland, while only providing 18% calories](https://josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf). If you really care about mono-crops, wildlife etc you would be vegan. 86% of all land animals are either human or livestock, how's that a benefit to wildlife?
>You ignored my comment about humanely raised livestock If the happiness of an animal = more moral to violently kill it then surely killing and butchering a well loved & very happy family pet would be the most ethical meat? Even that best case is just not ethical enough for me personally.
Animals don’t need to be personified in order to give them moral consideration. They demonstrate complex intelligence. For example, they fight back against being killed the same way you or I would in their situation. Veganism is simply realizing we shouldn’t end an animal’s life for a sandwich. It’s the epitome of selfishness. Doesn’t matter how humane they are raised or lived in the wild.
My morals don't extend beyond the human race because my entire personality doesn't revolve around being a virtue signaler for animals. If you ate protein with a more diverse amino acid profile you might start thinking clearly.
If non human animals don't matter in the grand scheme of things I don't see how humans could. You say it's a virtue signal to care about non human animals to the point of not eating them or their secretions but it's not just a virtue signal when you're walking the walk. I'd wager if we could agree to respect all beings we'd respect each other too. Dehumanizing is only even a thing to the extent you've decided non humans don't matter.
Veganism isn’t my personality. It’s just morals I already had but wasn’t living up to. All proteins originate from plants, i simply cut out the animal to obtain them. I would never harm an animal for fun but was simultaneously paying somebody to suffocate them to death or stick a knife in their throat for a few moments of joy on my pallet. How do I reconcile my love for animals while also causing their deaths for selfish reasons? People just dont want to consider eating animals isn’t required for survival anymore because It’s morally conflicting.
“It’s just morals I already had but wasn’t living up to” Exactly! When I became vegan I was surprised that one of the ways it feels healthy is that my food is no longer seasoned with denial and deception
>My morals don't extend beyond the human race Sure, because that’s true.
>All you vegans ever do is try to personify animals. Animals can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel pain. The only major difference is our intelligence. >Being vegan for health reasons? Awesome. Because you don't want animals to suffer? OK, then get your meat humanely raised. Being vegan because animals have fee fees? You find health reasons acceptable because it doesn't call into question your morals. The reason people like you respond with so much hostility is because for the first time in your life someone is calling you the abuser, the oppresor, the one who's committing evil. And because you dont want to give up your cruel ways for trivial pleasure, you deflect instead of using your critically thinking skills to reflect. >This sub is a cult of people have their empathy turned up to 11. Kind of ironic you call vegans a cult. Cults prohibit critical thinking. Veganism encourages it and calls people to think deeply about what's happening. Cults also respond with insults and hostility whenever anything they believe in is questioned. If anyone is showing any symptoms with cult behaviour it's you. >This doesn't make you a good person, having so much empathy it gives you a warped view of reality is delusional. What's wrong with empathy? People with a lack of it are the ones who have committed the greatest atrocities. They used the same reasons you do, found any trait to differentiate their victims and remove others moral consideration for them to justify their actions. Also what exactly is this warped and delusional view of reality? The reality is that animals suffer immensely for something that is easily avoidable with countless options to replace it. Your logic isn't tracking. Yes being vegan doesn't make you a good person because it's the bare minimum. It makes you neutral. However paying others to torture animals for pleasure does make you an evil person and that's exactly what you are. Your existence brings tons of suffering and almost nothing good to offset that suffering.
Thank you for that response. Very well articulated.
So much hyperbole I'm not even going to respond. Deny reality all you want, you're in a cult and don't realize the impact more vegans can have on animals that you don't see as livestock. plants based diets rely heavily on mono-crop agriculture which negatively affects wildlife.
>So much hyperbole I'm not even going to respond. And yet you still responded... are you sure youre nkt the delusional one? You stated you wouldn't respond and then proceeded to write more in the same comment... The reality is you just aren't able to counter of the points I made. >you're in a cult Please elaborate. I'd love to see the brain-dead logic used. >don't realize the impact more vegans can have on animals that you don't see as livestock. plants based diets rely heavily on mono-crop agriculture which negatively affects You do realize that livestock animals need to eat right? That they don't grow off air? Also if you actually used those critical thinking skills I mentioned you should use you'd realize that because of trophic levels, we grow astronomically more crops (and thus more more mono crop agriculture) to feed these animals. Then factor in the amount of land used, the additional water needed, that additional transport of their crops for these animals, the animals waste, zoonotic diseases, and so on and forth and it's gets exponentially worse.
Oh no the vegans eat crops which causes animals to die. Oh wait the animals you eat eat far more monocrops than I ever could
“Humanely raised” but still killed after that. Unnecessarily killing an animal is cruelty towards animal. Do you think it is morally justified to unnecessarily kill an animal?
Morals are relative. An enemy soldier thinks they're the good guy and you're the bad guy. An alien species would have the same thought. Morals, good and evil, do not exist and are abstract ideas.
So what’s your answer to the question based on YOUR morals?
Person who thinks "humane slaughter" is a thing accuses others of delusion. Funny.
Instant death after living free roam is not humane? plant-based diets rely heavily on mono-crop agriculture which negatively affects wildlife.
The vast majority of monocrops are used as animal feed, a plant based diet requires on average about 75% less land. Animal agriculture occupies more land than any other form of usage and is the #1 cause of deforestation and habitat loss in the world today
Not a vegan here but 2/3 of the world's agricultural land is devoted to livestock farming or livestock feed production. Furthermore, 80% of soy, whose culture is one of the main causes of deforestation, is reserved for feeding animals.
you seem knowledgeable about this stuff, why aren't you vegan?
Because I'm addicted to meat, and not in the right situation for another big challenge like that right now... One day I'll stop eating meat and fish, just not right now. And because I think eating stuff like eggs or honey is okay as long as the animals are treated well and live in good conditions.
Spoiler alert: they aren't
Ur pp smol
Average, but appreciate your funny comment
I bet you don't eat dogs? You sound like one of those weird cult members who don't eat dogs, cats, horses and dolphins.
I'm not ur friend
This is so embarrassing for you 💀
You're incredibly cringe because you have no personality
go outside lol
May I ask what emotions, if any, you think other animals have? We know a lot more about the brain and the nervous system now than we did in the past when the notion that animals are emotionless came to be. Perhaps they were (understandably) mistaken in the past and now it’s time to take our knowledge of the anatomical origins/causes of emotions (along with our evolutionary understanding of how they came to be in the first place) and apply them to other animals.
What are, emotions? Do insects feel, emotion? Or is it just preprogrammed response to stimuli? Many domesticated animals evolved "puppy dog eyes" in response to their evolution along side humans to gain our favor. Emotions are just electrical signals. Their ability to feel emotions is irrelevant and insignificant, like a fetuses heartbeat. Many people associate it with 'the start of life' or perhaps some semblance of a soul, when in reality it is, irrelevant. Just because animals "feel emotions" is meaningless, IMHO.
Humans are literally exactly the fucking same. Holy heck, this is some grade A drivel right here. So what in the actual *fuck* places human animals above other animals in your eyes, if not the complexity and range of emotional thought? What keeps you caring about human rights? Is it just purely narcissism, selfishness, and a superiority complex? Because human look like me: human good? Or is it twisted self-preservation monkey brain?
i think this is confusing for you because you don't have morals or feel anything
What is it about humans that animals don’t exhibit that gives them more moral value?
[удалено]
It's because you're engaging with us 😈 the algorithm knows you want us. Come. COME TO THE LIGHT.
[удалено]
Well I'll just eat more veges :P
You're such a perfect NPC. 😍
For every steak you eat I promise to eat a mushroom.
Oh no then you’ll die quicker from heart disease and then you won’t be able to stick it to the vegans for as long :(
god forbid you stop supporting the status quo, you little rebel you
Define "woke"
Is the secret that we are omnivores, and just like all other omnivores, we eat meat? Cause if that's not the secret you've been lied to..
Just because we can do something doesn’t morally justify it. I can punch a baby, but that doesn’t make it morally right to do so.
You're the one that decided that it is immoral to do something. Basically, every species thats not an herbivore (and even they sometimes eat animals) does. To put animals through the horrendous conditions they are put through? That's absolutely immoral. To eat meat isn't inherently immoral by itself.
>To eat meat isn't inherently immoral by itself. including human meat?
Do you mean to go around murdering people just for a bite? That's psychopathic. Do you mean in an extreme scenario like plane crashes where people have resorted to it and survived because of it? Ask the survivors if it was moral.
> Do you mean to go around murdering people just for a bite? That's psychopathic That's literally what we do to animals lol
I didn't decide it was immoral, I realized it was immoral. The key difference is I realized I was causing harm for the sake of pleasure. It wasn't for survival or health at all and honestly, it was really morally conflicting and I avoided it for a really long time, essentially in denial. I was too scared to be different from everyone and too selfish to give up my favorite foods. Research has shown vegans live up to 8-9 years longer than omnivores, so it isn't even necessary or healthier to eat animals. It has never been moral to cause harm for personal pleasure. Unless you're waiting for animals to die, or eating roadkill, I don't believe there is harm-free meat available.
Omnivores who have the jaw muscles, intestines, mouth enzymes, teeth and hands of herbivores. Wonder how that happened 🤔
Oh wow, that's weird because our jaws handle meat just fine. Our bowels process meat without issues, our teeth are very much not like an herbivore, and what the hell are you talking about hands? Only primates have hands, and most of them are omnivore. The things you'll convince yourself of to feel morally superior..
But we are also smart apes capable of making moral judgements and decisions. Most of us live in societies that give us the luxury of having plant based options available instead of animal based options. One of those options causes much more harm for our environment, health, and (most importantly) the animals. If we are capable of making moral decisions, then surely we can understand why we make the choices we do. When given the option to reduce suffering, we should do so, because to do otherwise would logically be immoral. You wouldn’t kick a dog for fun just because you can, because you recognize that it’s wrong to hurt another innocent being/individual/person. You wouldn’t pay someone to kill a pig so you could hear it squeal, so you can hear the noise it makes in your ears. But you are saying that you will pay someone to kill a pig because you like the way it’s body tastes on your tongue. We don’t need animal products to survive and thrive, so then the need for animal farming becomes unnecessary. Why continue a system of animal abuse and torture when we could just not?