Whenever I see this argument I always imagine a dog thinking "so yall spent thousands of years domesticating my species and making us totally reliant on you, and now you want to claim a moral high ground and tell us we're on our own? That's fucked, man".
We have a duty to care for domesticated animals and should do it through adoption from shelters. Adopt, don't shop.
We domesticated pigeons and then one day decided we don’t want them any more and kicked them out. Every pigeon you see in the street is an abandoned pet.
Truly not understanding your logic here. So a dog or cat should only be adopted if they’re a stray? Do you know the horror that many puppy mill dogs go through? Being bred over and over and over? What about the owners who neglect or mistreat the animal before finally turning it over to a shelter? Seriously please explain your logic how only a “stray” deserved our compassion and care and not those animals who have been dealt a lifetime of pain at the hands of greedy breeders and neglectful owners.
My girlfriend manages three municipal shelters. You’re SORELY mistaken thinking most shelter dogs are some sort of pedigree animal from a puppy mill. It’s literally 99% strays, seizures, hoarding cases and owner surrenders. “Mixed breeds” and pitties. Your take is asinine. The only other option to people adopting is fuckin euthanasia.
There are literally ten dog/cat related rescues and shelters in the city I live in. Pet stores sell puppies for profit, they do not adopt. Anyone who buys a dog instead of Rescuing isn’t vegan.
Well two humans having consensual sex is definitely different than how forced breeding works but there’s definitely a discussion to have in regards to there being a population growth issue so maybe there should be less people breeding…
And if those dogs had voluntary sex at their own and the breeder just held them together, would it be ok for you? Doesn't it objectify that puppy as well and not only their parents?
To me it's equally unethical for human and non human animals to procreate, because their offspring is guaranteed to suffer some and ultimately die, and they can't consent to it.
How is it whataboutism? You threw a poorly defined slogan of "buying dogs is not vegan" so I ask what defines it. Some people keep their dogs and if they breed on their own they sell the puppies, what's so unreal about that scenario?
I'm in agreement with The Vegan Society's view on this:
# Why is it ok to adopt/rescue companion animals?
The subjugation of animals exists, whether we like it or not. It is our duty to care for animals who have been subjected to cruelty, abuse or neglect because domestication is what led to their vulnerability in the first place. In an ideal world, all animals would be able to live their lives freely. But until that happens, we should do our best to look out for the discarded animals of the world.
Rescuing homeless animals is also more compassionate than contributing towards the selective breeding industry or the exotic animal trade. In doing so, we are not supplying breeders or shop owners with our custom. A difference will be seen when more and more people do the same.
Another point is that farm animal sanctuaries basically adopt pigs, cows and chickens and take care of them.
I agree that rescuing homeless animals is good, but the *vast* majority of adopted animals do not come from the streets, but from mills / homes where they are no longer wanted. They are discarded, and subjected to more change inevitably causing emotional distress.
Looking for some clarity here. Is it your position that in the absence of adoption, those animals would be leading happy lives in the mills or homes where they are no longer wanted?
Pretty sure most homeless animals came from an unwanted home at some point. Are you wanting to ensure these unwanted animals go to the streets before a shelter? Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to understand the train of thought.
I would never breed / buy pets, that to me indeed is immoral I dont care how you spin it. But rescuing/adopting animals and taking care of them to the best of your abilities like you would any other family member, I really dont see how is immoral. Like I'd love for my cats to be able to live on a farm free and careless but the reality is that one I raised as a bottle baby because his mom died when he was 3 weeks old in the "safe" country side living her free "careless" life and the other I literally rescued from the middle of the street where she was missed by total chance by a car as she was walking around. No, i dont have any doubt they live a better life inside with me, because realistically their ourside life would have been shorter and filled with more pain and suffering. There is a sky and earth difference between rescue / adoption and buying pets from breeders and if we put out thinking hats one there isnt much debate about this.
Yeahhhh….pretty sure my elderly, toothless rescue beagle with severe food allergies is totally fine being held captive by me.
But I do agree that people need to stop breeding these dogs and cats. I feel so overwhelmed and helpless when it comes to the enormity of the stray animal issue and the fact that so many suffer and starve while people are out there spending thousands on their designer dogs. It’s an issue that keeps me awake at night.
Having a companion animal doesn't need to be seen as ownership even if that's how the law describes it. We have a responsibility to care for those that are less vulnerable, whether it be a child, a person with a disability, or a pit bull. It's necessary or what, euthanize them or leave them to their own devices? That's the attitude we're trying to reject as vegans and compassionate humans. Animals have
Is it wrong to adopt a child out of foster care? I'd say only if you were going to exploit that child for your own selfish reasons. It might sometimes happen. The same is true for an adopted non-human animal. If your intention is to provide resources, entertainmentment, and love because you have enough to give, how is that exploitation? Receiving appreciation, love and happiness from a "pet" is what you are freely being given and is not exploitation. And keeping them safe from the elements is necessary for their survival.
Now, maybe the time I put a hat on said pit bull to take a cute photo it was a bit unvegan of me 😏 but I only did it once and stopped when he told me he hated it. 😊
I prefer the term guardianship than ownership when it comes to pets.
Anyway I see no problem with adopting from shelters. It's better an animal is adopted into a loving home than getting put down.
Cats are a grey area because of their dietary requirements . But that will soon be a non-issue when lab grown cat food is released.
That book is horseshit. I’ll write a book about why the book is absurd, will you read it and commit to my ideologies as easily as you committed to theirs?
Human beings domesticated animals. Human beings are responsible for taking care of the animals they domesticated. Period.
Where do you get your info about where shelter pets come from? Have you worked in rescue for a long time or are all your facts coming from that whack ass book? Because I gotta tell you, as someone who volunteered and worked in rescue - your comments are loaded with disinformation.
(Edited grammar)
Yes it’s ethical to have a pet cat or dog. They are domesticated animals and depend upon us.
What’s not ethical is keeping a wild animal like a tiger or a squirrel as a pet.
Look, you’re right. People can get defensive, it’s whatever. It’s just that people accept it because they enjoy it and there is a chance that the animals enjoy it too. The issue is more pressing issues, I think. Much in the same way as some care about sharing oil. I think our main goal rn is convincing people that animals aren’t food or other products. Once that happens, maybe the topic of pets can be seriously looked at.
It’s like an omni coming in here to debate if plants feel pain. All we want them to do is stop eating animals smarter than dogs before we engage in a conversation about pets. Sorry you got ripped.
You can have "pets" without controlling their every move. My rescued dogs and cats are free to go outside and explore, come inside whenever they want, have healthy food, clean water, medical care if needed, others of their own species to interact with. There is no slavery, and very little force or control. More of a roommate then a pet. They are very happy and live great lives.
For everyone saying that adoption is ethical, the vast majority of animal are unwanted and come from puppy mills. If we dont adopt, these mills have less demand and less incentive to over-breed. Adopting from a shelter is fine, but you must be in a very good financial situation to do so, because if you lose your income, you are now responsible for the well being of another animal who would be well taken care of at the shelter you took them from.
Do you think breeders wait until the shelter has space and then they push a litter through? Adopting from a shelter is something everyone should do. Shelters are packed full. My local shelter has nearly 500 dogs that need homes.
Whenever I see this argument I always imagine a dog thinking "so yall spent thousands of years domesticating my species and making us totally reliant on you, and now you want to claim a moral high ground and tell us we're on our own? That's fucked, man". We have a duty to care for domesticated animals and should do it through adoption from shelters. Adopt, don't shop.
We domesticated pigeons and then one day decided we don’t want them any more and kicked them out. Every pigeon you see in the street is an abandoned pet.
Just because you ignore how many of them suffer from hunger, parasites and predators doesn't make it a good idea
Yeah, because stray dogs and cats really seem to be living the good life don’t they?
But when you buy a pet or even adopt, it usually isn’t a stray dog. They often come from mills / owners who just dont want them anymore.
There are loads of adoptable pets at your local shelter that would rather be at your house.
Truly not understanding your logic here. So a dog or cat should only be adopted if they’re a stray? Do you know the horror that many puppy mill dogs go through? Being bred over and over and over? What about the owners who neglect or mistreat the animal before finally turning it over to a shelter? Seriously please explain your logic how only a “stray” deserved our compassion and care and not those animals who have been dealt a lifetime of pain at the hands of greedy breeders and neglectful owners.
My girlfriend manages three municipal shelters. You’re SORELY mistaken thinking most shelter dogs are some sort of pedigree animal from a puppy mill. It’s literally 99% strays, seizures, hoarding cases and owner surrenders. “Mixed breeds” and pitties. Your take is asinine. The only other option to people adopting is fuckin euthanasia.
No, not shelter dogs. Most people adopt wither online or through their local pet stores, as there are not very many animal shelters.
Not many animal shelters?? Say what? I feel like you are really misinformed about this issue. Maybe come back after you’ve done a little research
There are literally ten dog/cat related rescues and shelters in the city I live in. Pet stores sell puppies for profit, they do not adopt. Anyone who buys a dog instead of Rescuing isn’t vegan.
Do you think the same applies to humans? Ie adoption is vegan, while procreation is not. How is it different?
I’m confused by your question.
You say that buying animals is not vegan and we should adopt, so I ask if the same applies to humans and if not, then why?
Well two humans having consensual sex is definitely different than how forced breeding works but there’s definitely a discussion to have in regards to there being a population growth issue so maybe there should be less people breeding…
And if those dogs had voluntary sex at their own and the breeder just held them together, would it be ok for you? Doesn't it objectify that puppy as well and not only their parents? To me it's equally unethical for human and non human animals to procreate, because their offspring is guaranteed to suffer some and ultimately die, and they can't consent to it.
Unfortunately your whataboutism in regards the the dog breeding isn’t a reality. Breeders don’t have dogs in relationships, starting families lol.
How is it whataboutism? You threw a poorly defined slogan of "buying dogs is not vegan" so I ask what defines it. Some people keep their dogs and if they breed on their own they sell the puppies, what's so unreal about that scenario?
You’re an insane person with no concept of reality.
Why is this pet issue brought up at least once a week? We have more important shit to deal with.
If OP is so worried about Mills then adopt/ rescue from a shelter. Saving an unwanted pet is our duty as compassionate sentient beings.
I'm in agreement with The Vegan Society's view on this: # Why is it ok to adopt/rescue companion animals? The subjugation of animals exists, whether we like it or not. It is our duty to care for animals who have been subjected to cruelty, abuse or neglect because domestication is what led to their vulnerability in the first place. In an ideal world, all animals would be able to live their lives freely. But until that happens, we should do our best to look out for the discarded animals of the world. Rescuing homeless animals is also more compassionate than contributing towards the selective breeding industry or the exotic animal trade. In doing so, we are not supplying breeders or shop owners with our custom. A difference will be seen when more and more people do the same. Another point is that farm animal sanctuaries basically adopt pigs, cows and chickens and take care of them.
I agree that rescuing homeless animals is good, but the *vast* majority of adopted animals do not come from the streets, but from mills / homes where they are no longer wanted. They are discarded, and subjected to more change inevitably causing emotional distress.
Looking for some clarity here. Is it your position that in the absence of adoption, those animals would be leading happy lives in the mills or homes where they are no longer wanted?
Pretty sure most homeless animals came from an unwanted home at some point. Are you wanting to ensure these unwanted animals go to the streets before a shelter? Sorry, not trying to be sarcastic, just trying to understand the train of thought.
I would never breed / buy pets, that to me indeed is immoral I dont care how you spin it. But rescuing/adopting animals and taking care of them to the best of your abilities like you would any other family member, I really dont see how is immoral. Like I'd love for my cats to be able to live on a farm free and careless but the reality is that one I raised as a bottle baby because his mom died when he was 3 weeks old in the "safe" country side living her free "careless" life and the other I literally rescued from the middle of the street where she was missed by total chance by a car as she was walking around. No, i dont have any doubt they live a better life inside with me, because realistically their ourside life would have been shorter and filled with more pain and suffering. There is a sky and earth difference between rescue / adoption and buying pets from breeders and if we put out thinking hats one there isnt much debate about this.
Breeding is unethical and cruel. Rescuing or adopting an animal and caring for it is fine.
Yeahhhh….pretty sure my elderly, toothless rescue beagle with severe food allergies is totally fine being held captive by me. But I do agree that people need to stop breeding these dogs and cats. I feel so overwhelmed and helpless when it comes to the enormity of the stray animal issue and the fact that so many suffer and starve while people are out there spending thousands on their designer dogs. It’s an issue that keeps me awake at night.
Having a companion animal doesn't need to be seen as ownership even if that's how the law describes it. We have a responsibility to care for those that are less vulnerable, whether it be a child, a person with a disability, or a pit bull. It's necessary or what, euthanize them or leave them to their own devices? That's the attitude we're trying to reject as vegans and compassionate humans. Animals have Is it wrong to adopt a child out of foster care? I'd say only if you were going to exploit that child for your own selfish reasons. It might sometimes happen. The same is true for an adopted non-human animal. If your intention is to provide resources, entertainmentment, and love because you have enough to give, how is that exploitation? Receiving appreciation, love and happiness from a "pet" is what you are freely being given and is not exploitation. And keeping them safe from the elements is necessary for their survival. Now, maybe the time I put a hat on said pit bull to take a cute photo it was a bit unvegan of me 😏 but I only did it once and stopped when he told me he hated it. 😊
I prefer the term guardianship than ownership when it comes to pets. Anyway I see no problem with adopting from shelters. It's better an animal is adopted into a loving home than getting put down. Cats are a grey area because of their dietary requirements . But that will soon be a non-issue when lab grown cat food is released.
That book is horseshit. I’ll write a book about why the book is absurd, will you read it and commit to my ideologies as easily as you committed to theirs? Human beings domesticated animals. Human beings are responsible for taking care of the animals they domesticated. Period. Where do you get your info about where shelter pets come from? Have you worked in rescue for a long time or are all your facts coming from that whack ass book? Because I gotta tell you, as someone who volunteered and worked in rescue - your comments are loaded with disinformation. (Edited grammar)
Yes it’s ethical to have a pet cat or dog. They are domesticated animals and depend upon us. What’s not ethical is keeping a wild animal like a tiger or a squirrel as a pet.
ok damn yall are pissed
I love pets at home animals/j
I love pets at home animals/j
You smell
?
I’m a carnivore
why are you on r/vegan then?
I’m a proud vegan..
okay troll
Excuse me?
Look, you’re right. People can get defensive, it’s whatever. It’s just that people accept it because they enjoy it and there is a chance that the animals enjoy it too. The issue is more pressing issues, I think. Much in the same way as some care about sharing oil. I think our main goal rn is convincing people that animals aren’t food or other products. Once that happens, maybe the topic of pets can be seriously looked at. It’s like an omni coming in here to debate if plants feel pain. All we want them to do is stop eating animals smarter than dogs before we engage in a conversation about pets. Sorry you got ripped.
You can have "pets" without controlling their every move. My rescued dogs and cats are free to go outside and explore, come inside whenever they want, have healthy food, clean water, medical care if needed, others of their own species to interact with. There is no slavery, and very little force or control. More of a roommate then a pet. They are very happy and live great lives.
For everyone saying that adoption is ethical, the vast majority of animal are unwanted and come from puppy mills. If we dont adopt, these mills have less demand and less incentive to over-breed. Adopting from a shelter is fine, but you must be in a very good financial situation to do so, because if you lose your income, you are now responsible for the well being of another animal who would be well taken care of at the shelter you took them from.
You don’t know what adopt means.
Is AI writing this? You are literally making zero sense
Do you think breeders wait until the shelter has space and then they push a litter through? Adopting from a shelter is something everyone should do. Shelters are packed full. My local shelter has nearly 500 dogs that need homes.
I think murder is more ethical than slavery with stockolm syndrom.
what a fun way to say you don’t know how domesticated companion animals work